The delineation of a chart using Sabian symbols..

[Sanaqua]

Hi,

I've few questions. I googled the related terms to the above caption of the thread and simply couldnt get how to use Sabian symbols and what to think of that short lines that are written about some degrees.

First, If i've a planet say, Venus at 5' 05'' in Aquarius. Okay, i got that i'll round it to Venus at 6 degrees. Now, should i look at that short line as interpretation of this? For example, at Cafe Astrology,
http://cafeastrology.com/sabiansymbols_degreemeanings.html
the following is written about it,

5-6 deg Aquarius

A Masked Figure Performs Ritualistic Acts In A Mystery Play


Or for my Pluto in Scorpio at 7' 17''

7-8 deg Scorpio

A Calm Lake Bathed In Moonlight


Is this the reading? What does it mean?

I read on different websites that you round up the 'even degrees', if the degrees are odd, do you read them as such? Like my Moon in Cancer at 13'3'' will be read at 13 degree or at 14 degree cancer? I've read it as 13-14 degree cancer though, based on how the degrees are given at Cafe astrology.

How will it relate to the planets (like in above example Venus, Pluto or Moon or any other planets in the chart)?

Is there something to do with the House position also? Or like 7th house represent 'Others' in our chart, if we read some degrees in 7th house, will they explain about us or 'others'?

How do they relate to us in our daily lives? do we read them as transits?

Do we see the degrees for NN, SN and Chiron also?

Any guidance will be appreciated. :)
Regards,
Sanaqua.

[Sanaqua]

Sorry Mods, i refreshed the post and it was duplicated by mistake. From my side, it looked like my first message to initiate the thread wasnt posted in the forum. I hit the submit button again and the post was duplicated. You can delete one from these two similar ones. Currently, i cant find a delete button to delete the replicated thread. :)

[piercethevale]

Hi, there is a 'Sticky' at the top of the column for the 'Degree Symbol' forum on 'Understanding the Enumeration of the Degrees.' You should read it.
The four points of the chart axis are the most important thing you could do with Sabian Symbolic interpretation to a natal chart.
The Asc., Desc., I.C. and M.C. are symbolically "WHO", "WHERE-TO" [or whom you are to become in this lifetime], 'HOW", and "WHY".
this is explained by Dane Rudhyar in his book "The Sabian Symbols. An Astrological Mandala." I recommend his book,for both the understanding of the symbols and the technique and methods of use and for his particular gift for altering a few of the symbols slightly and the layers of meaning he finds in them and His excellent writing skills that give him such ease of communication ...conveying them to the reader. If you stay with the study and practice you'll eventually want a copy of the symbols by Marc Edmond Jones as well.
Then figure the Sabian Symbols for the more major Astrological Parts. The Part of Fortune, Spirit, Intelligence, Increase and Benifits, Service, Inheritance,Catastrophe, Sudden Advancement, Love.
[Note ...recent revelations and understandings in support of Dane Rudhyar's implications and the 'Esoteric School of astrology' that is associated with the Theosophists. Gives all support and reason to read the I.C. as "WHY" ...and the M.C. as "HOW". The difference being that the one direction leads one more meshed in Maya [Involutionary]...the other is the 'yogi' way...the Spiritual aspirants way...the way out of the illusion and entrapment in Maya/materiality. [Evolutionary].
The symbol you find for your Part of Fortune is that attitude, action, outlook, frame of mind, whatever...that you must actively keep conscious of and always in a continuous effort of manifestation to provide you with the most fortunate cycles of events that will aid and assist your everyday goals and trials too.
The Part of Catastrophe is the symbol you don't want to activate...but all indication so far has shown that the 'Catastrophe' symbolized is inevitable...but being forewarned will let you at least mitigate it... control the damages...so to speak. President Obamas Part of Catastrophe is the 1st degree of Pisces
[from Rudhyars' book] "IN A CROWDED MARKETPLACE FARMERS AND MIDDLEMEN DISPLAY A GREAT VARIETY OF PRODUCTS.

KEYNOTE: [I]The process of commingling and interchange which at all levels demonstrates the health of a community.

..... In this section of the cycle a man reaps what he has sown. But it may also be honors, social prestige, the interests of well-managed wealth. In this.....scene what is stressed is the coming together, ...... In a practical sense, the symbol, whenever it is found, emphasizes that the time has come to take full advantage of the social opportunities to bargain and to trade.

This is the first stage of the process related to the sixty-seventh five-fold sequence of symbols. It refers to all that can be gained from social interplay and especially, in the broadest sense of the word, from COMMERCE."
[full text of the symbols and more at this link: http://mindfire.ca/The%20Sabian%20Symbols/An%20Astrological%20Mandala%20-%20Contents.htm

Dubyas was in a degree of the Zodiac for which the symbol is of a man standing up for his own integrity and making his own decisions and voicing his own opinion.

...I think you can agree that each one is that particular Mans catastrophe...Obama's is the economy.

The symbol you find for your Part of Increase will assist you in prompting the $$$ flow into your life way more easier [there are a few exceptions...as My brothers' Part of Imprisonment is the same degree of the Zodiac as his Part of Increase...as the part of Imprisonment has been shown to be 'That form which we are kept from......as the symbol found for that part is one like that of the Part of Fortune...in that you want to make it a conscious daily effort to remember both those and a few other of these symbols and incorporate them into your life.

Each house cusp [I only use Placidus for this] symbol can be viewed as the role you must play as an actor in the affairs of the particular House in question. The particular qualities of the planets or Luminary in question should be seen as expressing itself as the symbol found in the degree for those. ...for example my Pluto is in the 21st degree of Leo...and the symbol is about the premature expansion of consciousness. I twas the first symbol that i took serious consideration for cause of validity as I had an OBE meditating the very first time I tried it in 1968 at age 15. ...something that should of taken most of a lifetime to achieve if it is even achieved [or at least a considerable amount of practice ...for the great majority of Humankind - ] ...the symbol for my Uranus at the 16th of Cancer in my 8th house.
[ibid.]
"A MAN STUDYING A MANDALA IN FRONT OF HIM, WITH THE HELP OF A VERY ANCIENT BOOK.

KEYNOTE: [I]A deep concern with problems raised by the process of personality integration.

...and Uranus is the higher octave of Mercury..."The Great Awkener'...and, as I said the Sabian Symbols "Are An Astrological Mandala"

..check symbols for the Moons Nodes' too.

...and of last night my friend Mitch and I concluded that the Hermetic lots very much need to be symbolically understood and put into utilization in each ones life.
We studied ours and compare them with the ones I got for the natal chart I propose/Claim to be that of Yeshua/Jesus. The Hermetic Lot of Courage, Lot of Necessity, Lot of Victory and Lot of Eros.
We believe that anyone that is involved in any way with doing some part of function in the inevitable conflicts and transformations that will occur next year will need to know them for their self. Even if you don't believe that you are of any significance...you might find, out that, it is very much otherwise at a later date...maybe at a 'most very last possible time to be of positive influence for a 'Great Cause'
I am going to start a thread on that in the next day or two.

[sdh3]

Hi,

I've few questions. I googled the related terms to the above caption of the thread and simply couldnt get how to use Sabian symbols and what to think of that short lines that are written about some degrees.

First, If i've a planet say, Venus at 5' 05'' in Aquarius. Okay, i got that i'll round it to Venus at 6 degrees.

Yes, that is correct--you round up.


Now, should i look at that short line as interpretation of this? For example, at Cafe Astrology,
http://cafeastrology.com/sabiansymbols_degreemeanings.html
the following is written about it,

There are many different sets of interpretations. Among the best are those of Marc Jones (http://www.amazon.com/Sabian-Symbols-Astrology-Illustrated-Horoscopes/dp/094335840X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b), Dane Rudhyar (http://www.amazon.com/Astrological-Mandala-Transformations-Symbolic-Phases/dp/0394719921/ref=pd_sim_b_4), Blain Bovee (http://www.amazon.com/Sabian-Symbols-Astrological-Analysis-Original/dp/0738705306/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323608393&sr=8-1), Lynda Hill (http://www.amazon.com/360-Degrees-Wisdom-Lynda-Hill/dp/B000UK368I/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323608498&sr=1-1), and Diana Roche (http://www.amazon.com/Sabian-Symbols-Screen-Prophecy/dp/1933303344/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c).

IMHO, these are the five best sets of interpretations. Only one of them is available online for free, however--Dane Rudhyars. You can find them here (http://mindfire.ca/The%20Sabian%20Symbols/An%20Astrological%20Mandala%20-%20Contents.htm).


Is this the reading? What does it mean?

The books outlined above will provide you with ample information concerning these questions. Rudhyar and Bovee provide the best answers, I think.

I read on different websites that you round up the 'even degrees', if the degrees are odd, do you read them as such? Like my Moon in Cancer at 13'3'' will be read at 13 degree or at 14 degree cancer? I've read it as 13-14 degree cancer though, based on how the degrees are given at Cafe astrology.

That information is incorrect. I think PiercetheVale has a good post on this matter at the top of the Degree Symbols page. Check there.


How will it relate to the planets (like in above example Venus, Pluto or Moon or any other planets in the chart)?

Is there something to do with the House position also? Or like 7th house represent 'Others' in our chart, if we read some degrees in 7th house, will they explain about us or 'others'?

How do they relate to us in our daily lives? do we read them as transits?

Do we see the degrees for NN, SN and Chiron also?


Anywhere you find a degree that is important, the Sabian symbol for the degree can provided additional and at times invaluable information. What I sense is your underlying question is this: how do you interpret these symbols. That is a subject of much debate here and elsewhere. Hang out here for a while and you'll likely get many different perspectives, any and all of which can be useful to you.


Any guidance will be appreciated. :)
Regards,
Sanaqua.

Hope this helps
thoughtfully
sdh3

[Sanaqua]

Hi Piercethevale,

Thanks for your reply to my post. It's like you've told me how should plan a study course of mine. I really really appreciate this, it has helped me a lot. I've copied the message and gonna print it. The reason i didnt write back for this long, i've looked up the important degrees in my chart including the ones you have mentioned above. I have calculated them and wrote them in a sequence. Then, i'm writing the keynoted underneath also.

Yeah, i had read the sticky before i posted here but couldnt understand it.

Okay, i'll get Astrological Mandala printed from internet, i saw that it's available free online.

Following your instructions, i have first checked the degree symbols for AC, IC, DC and MC. If i'm reading everything correctly or near to right, it somewhat matches with what usual astrology tells about me. I am simply SURPRISED by this.
This is what i have got.

AC = Who, Taurus 7’56’’
7-8 deg Taurus

A Sleigh On Land Uncovered By Snow

DC= Who I’ll become in this lifetime, Scorpio 7’56’’
7-8 deg Scorpio

A Calm Lake Bathed In Moonlight

IC= How, Cancer 24’26’’
24-25 deg Cancer

A Willful Man Is Overshadowed By A Descent Of Superior Power

MC= Why, Capricorn 24’26’’
24-25 deg Capricorn

A Store Filled With Precious Oriental Rugs

I used to think that i can never experience any spiritual thing. When i was a child, i used to search about the mind sciences and Sufism (spiritualism) but then i thought it'll be extremely difficult for me to handle without a teacher and so i ran away from it. From some months, it's like i'm experiencing something at the spiritual level. Like i sometimes start feeling gloomy for no reason or about the tragedies different people have and most of the times, i would start feeling extremely calm or serene and would feel i have no worldly desire. I thought, it was because my Progressed Sun was moving into Pisces and is currently at zero degree. But the interpretation for these points of my chart, seems like say that i'm begining to learn many things like this.
I dont know if i'm getting the right meanings or not. :)

Part of Fortune Libra 17'30''

Phase 198 (Libra 18*):Two men placed under arrest.

Keynote: A breakdown in the constructive relationship between the individual and the society, and the expectable result.

This is the third stage of the fortieth sequence. Negative as the image may seem, one may see implied in it the power in every individual to assume social risks in order to express his convictions or deepest desires. Nevertheless, one thing is needed: FACING THE CONSEQUENCES.
I couldnt understand it.

From the example of your brother, a question popped into my mind. While i was writing down degrees symbols for my chart, i had two symbols at one degree, which is as follows
Love Taurus 9’2’’
9-10 deg Taurus

A Red Cross Nurse

Beauty Taurus 9’2’’
9-10 deg Taurus

A Red Cross Nurse
I cant understand it and i cant understand how will these degrees be activated and how will i feel if they're activated?
About House Cusps, i use astro.com to cast my chart and in astro.com, there're no details of the minutes and seconds written with them, so how will i calculate the symbols for them? And if do, like i did for my AC and other three angles, how can i incorporate them in my life?
My next question was going to be, the examples you gave from your chart of Pluto and Uranus. But PTV, tell me, arent the symbols saying the same things, your planets are already telling you?
My Moon at 13'39'' Cancer reads as 'A very old man facing a vast dark space to the northeast'.. 'Fulfilment in transcending and changeless wisdom'. In the description of this, there's a hint at Moon node too. How's it going to contribute in my personality?
Ok, i havent yet but i'll check symbols for moon nodes too. Like North Node is our ultimate goal, does it mean that i should follow what the symbols will tell about the degree of NN?

I have another question here (sorry i couldnt read Dane Rudhyar's Book. My exams are drawing near and even when i'm studying, astrology is going on in my sub-conscious in the back of my mind and then i cant resist and switch on my laptop to study some astrology too!). How are the degrees activated? Do our Progressed planets and Solar Arc planets when move over these degrees activate them? or Transitting planets or all of the above?
When a particular planet will activate a certain degree, will it add a tinge of its own qualities in the expression of the degree too?
How can we predict future events from symbols?
Is there any way to get an answer like we do in Horary astrology using symbols in a horary chart?

I dont have any knowledge about 'lots' but i'll read it.
And i'll look forward when will you start the thread about the things you explained in the last paragraph. From that too, a question has struck in my mind. I'll ask when you'll start the thread. :)

Thanks a LOT for 'designing' a course of astrology via symbols in your post. It's valuable for me. Now i know, how should i proceed. :)

[Sanaqua]

Hi sdh3,

Thanks a lot for your response too. Earlier by mistake i had posted two threads with the same name and you and piercethevale had posted under separate thread. I was happy that you redirected me to the books. I appreciate your contribution. :)

Regards,
Sanaqua.

[piercethevale]

Sorry, I've been busy and couldn't get to writing response.
I won't do any analysis without a chart to look at. There has been too many times in the past that someone wrote down something wrong and it didn't become revealed until after I had taken a fair bit of time to look it over and then write a reply ...and then the inquirer wanted a do over...

I'll be glad to look it over when you post it.
I will tell you this in the meantime. I've only discovered that the symbols are to be taken literally with the research I was doing with the biblical chart I've got a thread on in this same sub-forum. In those 7 years I've done maybe 5 or 6 doz. charts...maybe a few more or less. A lot of those charts dealt with a number of the same degrees. In the twenty seven and a half years I've been utilizing the Sabian Symbols there are still a number of them that i have never encountered for any reason...and then there are some that seem to pop up in just about every other chart...I can't figure it...it just went that way.
Thus I don't always have an immediate answer for some symbols in some applications. The Planets I've yet to figure out a bit...mine have made sense to me over the years...but I had to be patient and just keep an open minded belief in the fact that the symbology would be understood as to the Astral object in question. The Sabian Symbol for my natal Pluto, the moment I laid my eyes on the symbol for it I understood it and knew that the others would be in time too.
As I had achieved 'Samadhi' the very first time i meditated at 15 years of age during the summer of 1968...the symbol for my natal Pluto in the 21st degree of Leo states: [from Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols]

(LEO 21°): INTOXICATED CHICKENS DIZZILY FLAP THEIR WINGS TRYING TO FLY.

KEYNOTE: The often-negative and at times ludicrous first experience with spiritual teachings.

In Near Eastern symbolism wine, intoxication, and vineyards always refer to ecstatic experiences and to the contact with mystical or occult schools..."Chickens" here suggest that we are dealing with human beings who are the standardized products of their culture, and more or less undifferentiated specimens of a social norm. Brought accidentally or prematurely to mystical or occult experiences...
.... [Keywords] PREMATURE EXPANSION OF CONSCIOUSNESS."

...when my brother gave me the book s he felt i should study to begin my 'schoolin' in astrology he gave me Rudhyars book on the Sabians as well..and noted that he thought Pluto was the most powerful and influential planet on my chart [well, he'd only been studying about 2 years at the time his self. So I looked up the symbol for Pluto first off. ...When I saw what Rudhyar had wrote...I was pretty much sold that the Sabian Symbols were valid ...right from the get-go.

The symbol for Libra 18*. is what I've got for the key of G in my application of musical tonality to the Zodiac. [you can see and read about that here, but be warned it might be too advanced for you yet.] http://actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=177

As the 12 point matrix [star] is alleged to be 'The Path of Discipleship' [Dorothy Leon, author] The symbol when considered to be on of the steps of discipleship is demonstrating what all ascetics on the spiritual path find sooner or later...that they are estranged from society...[my yogi buddy , Suryakant agreed that he felt this musical app is the 'Path of Discipleship'...although I still have a bit of doubt. Suryakant is the one that pointed out what I already saw for myself in that the 18* of Libra symbolically describes that state of 'estrangement'. But, I hope you've used the 'Day Formula' as that is the only correct formula for the Part of Fortune. If you used the 'Night formula' then what you have is your Part of Spirit...which is the inherent quality that you are awakened too and have no real need to seek to activate...it will come of its own...I have found. If the 18th of Libra is your part of Fortune and you are a seeker of spiritual perfection...seclusion is your need. As Rudhyar said the following in the definition of the symbol that he wrote:

"The problem for a society is how to include in its patterns of order agencies or channels for transformation — and particularly how to keep them truly operative; for individuals, it is how to make their transforming vision or impulse acceptable to society"


...if you are going to follow a mundane path ...you need to consider being the 'Lone wolf' type ...consider yourself an outcast as to that activity that you will eventually find is your destiny to do and in service to humanity [everyone has one...or a choice of one from a few options.] It's kind of similar to my part of Fortune and M.C. ...both at the 25th of Leo...only my is a solo journey af rather less obtrusive and thus nearly unnoticeable in activity...you on the other hand, the symbol is saying that this activity of yours is quite noticable a most likely "Frowned Upon In This Establishment"...so to speak...meaning you'll want to keep yourself apart from society [you can be in the midst of a crowd of people and still be removed..if you know what I mean.
Get that natal chart posted and I'll answer any other ?s you have...within reason, anyways.
ptv

[sdh3]

I cant understand it and i cant understand how will these degrees be activated and how will i feel if they're activated?

Here's an unconventional idea but also one that should resonate with you. Each symbol is a vignette, a word picture, that has narrative qualities. Or you might say that it is part of (or could be part of) a narrative. Perhaps you could understand when and how a particular degree is activated and how that "feels" if you start thinking in terms of narrative arcs. This link will help you get started ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_structure

Hope this helps

thoughtfully
sdh3

[piercethevale]

First off...If you can't understand the sticky, I don't know if I should even continue this conversation. The sticky is written so simply as for an 8 year old to get it. I mean seriously...what don't you understand? There are 30 degrees and they are numbered one to thirty...that's 1 to 30....!?!
To put it simply: Let's say your Mercury is at 0* 31' 45"...then your Mercury is in the first degree...there is no such thing as a Zero degree...just as there was no year 0 AD or 0 BC
The day you were born you were in your first year. You weren't a year old, but YOU WERE IN YOUR FIRST YEAR. The day you completed that first year of life it was your first birthday and you got to say your were a year old, but the next day you were in your second year.
Now, just think degrees. The moment we go into another sign we are in the first degree. Once we complete that first degree we are a full one dgree and it is written thus: 1* 00' 00". But, the moment we got beyond that; 1* 00' 01" we are in the second degree...it's that simple.
What's not to understand?
To put it even more simply, if the degree is not followed by, [B]00' 00" , just round everything up to the next degree.

...as far as what sdh3 is saying...yeah, that is kind of how it works. The symbol for each house cusp is like your role as an actor in a play...and your part is the affairs of that house.
Your first house, your ascendant is who you are...who you were born as. The 7th house cusp, your descendant is who you must become as the affairs of the 7th house are partnerships and public relations...it's your emergence into the outside world ...it's what the world is going to see you as....it's what the Cosmos has decreed you should allow yourself to become...you have free will to resist it if you want...but the birth chart I produced for Jesus has shown that Jesus didn't resist it. In truth, when you are one with the will of the Creator your free will is the same as what the birth chart says you are.

So, you say your Asc. is the 8th degree of Taurus. What Rudhyar wrote in his book on the Sabian Symbols and defined the 8th degree of Taurus is this.

Taurus 8* " A SLEIGH ON LAND UNCOVERED BY SNOW.

KEYNOTE: The value of anticipating and preparing for expectable conditions.

Here we have a combination of two factors: "the sleigh," which is a product of traditional skill (cf. Taurus 6° symbol) and the ability man has to foresee and thus to prepare for a future situation. This ability relates this symbol to the one for Taurus 7°, because the woman from Samaria had 'the capacity to receive a revelation of the future state of human evolution, though in a different and subconscious sense. Man should be ready to use past knowledge and skill to meet the demands of a stage yet to come.

.... [you need to] realize the value of FUTURE-ORIENTED IMAGINATION but also of relying upon the natural order of unfoldment of all life processes."

Well, this is pretty straight forward and simple as to "WHO" you are.
You are that person that must be mutable...a bit of a challenge for the 'Fixedness' of a Taurus [but as I don't know your Sun sign, I can't get any insight into the depth of your entire being....hence ...WHY, I request the entire chart.] You must be that kind of person that can forever go with the flow...adapt to changes but must be prepared for those changes.
If you know winter is just weeks away and you heat your home with a wood stove you want a cord or two of firewood stashed, covered up from getting wet and nearby and read and available...don't you? You want to have a larder full of food stored in case you get snowed in. You want the roof of your home to be in good shape so as it doesn't leak during the winter storms...thus you should of had it repaired during the summer if it needed repairing. You want your car winterized, the snow tires put on for the winter. You get your heavy blankets or your down comforter out of your cedar chest, your flannel shirts and pajamas out of the trunk, cleaned and ready to wear.
Get it? This is simile of who YOU ARE...[or you'd better allow yourself to be] ...just like the old Boy Scout motto...BE PREPARED...you have to be the kind of person that says to them self; 'Gee, lucky for me I had the foresight to bring mosquito repellent on this fishing trip because everyone else is getting stung like mad." See?

[piercethevale]

Now as to your Descendant. Who you must be to the world outside of your self...who they will say you were at your funeral.

Scorpio 8* "A CALM LAKE BATHED IN MOONLIGHT.

KEYNOTE: A quiet openness to higher inspiration."

Well, that's pretty straight forward and simple.
As I am both a Quaker and a yogi, this is kind of like who I am myself.
There is no preacher in the meeting house of 'The Society of Friends'. A Quaker doesn't need someone to preach to them...they listen to the 'inner voice'...that 'voice of the spirit', that 'Spirit' has the discernment and wisdom to tell you what to do.
As a yogi that employs meditation ...I can tell you that by meditating...by calming and quieting the 'internal dialogue of your mind'...[that chatter that's always going on in your head that is saying, 'Gee, I wonder if I look proper in these clothes today", or , 'Oh, I wonder what I should have for dinner tonight, should I get a bottle of red wine or white wine...oh, 'The ball game is starting on T.V. in ten minutes, I'd better get the steaks out of the freezer before I get to watching the game.']
You must become a person that is ever ready to hear that voice that can get drowned in the din of too much noise from everything else, particularly your own internal dialogue.
"Wow, I was so caught up in my on drama and thoughts in my head I just walked past a guy giving out hundred dollar bills and didn't notice and now He's given the last one away."

Do you see what I'm saying here? Only, I would see it more like the Spirit would have said: "You just walked past a man starving to death and begging for only enough food to have kept him alive just one more day...but now he's dead...and had he lived He was the man that was to have become the doctor that would have discovered a cure for cancer...if you had only allowed yourself to become a person that is ever calm and collected and ready for my voice...the voice of your spirit, mankind would never of had to suffer from cancer again." ...sorry to be so dramatic...but, I'm trying to get a point across here.

So, how are you to become that kind of person?
That is demonstrated symbolically by the symbol for your I.C. according to Rudhyar. But I did mention that if you feel you want to be a most spiritually oriented person then you have to choose the 'Evolutionary' path and that is symbolically represented by your M.C....
As your Desc. is saying you must be open to 'Higher Inspiration' and to me that is the voice of the 'Spirit'...God, trying to communicate to you, if you please, I'm going to give you the 'Evolutionary' analysis...that is interpret the M.C. as your "HOW"...you are to become the one open to that inner voice.

Due to the moderators here being so 'On MY Case' about going over the 100 word limit on copyright infringement I'm going to have to edit the guts out of the symbol definition by Rudhyar...I want you to go to the website and thoroughly read the entire text for the symbol of the 25th degree of Capricorn
http://mindfire.ca/The%20Sabian%20Symbols/An%20Astrological%20Mandala%20-%20Capricorn%2016-30.htm
[From Rudhyar...with most of it 'gutted']

" A STORE FILLED WITH PRECIOUS ORIENTAL RUGS.

KEYNOTE: The use of cultural and artistic processes as means to enhance personal comfort and appreciation.

... A "rug"...something on which a person stands or sits....is a foundation for cultural "under-standing," ...can have a magical or sacred meaning, as in the case of prayer rugs....[a] "woman in a convent"... knows only the bare floor, because her goal is one of transcendence.... [for] the...devotee praying to ... god, society offers... beautiful rugs...[so one may] meet the universe, not [only] ...in terms of the support the natural soil gives, but protected... and securely established on the mental-spiritual as well as manual achievements of those who keep the cultural symbols alive.

[emphasize] the value of RELIANCE ON TRADITION."

If this is HOW you are to become one open to that spiritual inspiration...one whom must be able to hear the voice of the spirit...it sounds exactly like I was just telling you about that side of my own self...the Quaker yogi that I am.
I would say join a traditional group that utilizes meditation or some yoga activity that quiets the mind...but one that you know to be most traditional and that you will feel comfortable in...[yeah, you don't want to get involved with some Jim Jones or Rajneesh character ...I recommend something like 'Ananda'. There are many 'Ananda' groups that the 'Self Realization Fellowship' charters across the country here in the United States. Or the T.M. group, ...or become a Quaker...or join my Yoga Order there are two chapters is the USA, The Sadhan Order, one is in Chicago, the other in Arizona. if you are not religious then find a very established and traditional group that does activities to calm their being and open themselves to higher inspiration..

Now "WHY" are your being prompted to do all this ..that is symbolically said in the symbol for your I.C....the 25th degree of Cancer.
That is.
To be able to respond to spiritual forces and adapt to the integration of personality through positive will-full endeavors. So as to become one who uses their will and positive imagination in facing life situations. To become a pentecostal descent of power....a incarnate spiritual response, a sign of inner strength and uncommon ENDOWMENT.

[student4life]

PTV,

I was reading your post on Sabian symbols and the four cardinal points of the chart. I want to make sure I am understanding what you were saying correctly.

ASC = Who you were born as
DSC = Who you will become
IC = How you will become
MC= Why you will become

And you did mention that in some cases the IC and MC switch meaning as in:
IC = Why you will become
MC = How you will become

So for my own purposes I would do as follows:

Who I was born as= ASC 1 :capricorn:
Who I will become= DSC 1 :cancer:
How you will become= IC 15 :aries:
Why you will become= MC 15 :libra:

I will attach my chart so you can visually see if I did it correctly :innocent:
Thank you for your help

[sdh3]

PTV,

I was reading your post on Sabian symbols and the four cardinal points of the chart. I want to make sure I am understanding what you were saying correctly.

ASC = Who you were born as
DSC = Who you will become
IC = How you will become
MC= Why you will become

And you did mention that in some cases the IC and MC switch meaning as in:
IC = Why you will become
MC = How you will become

So for my own purposes I would do as follows:

Who I was born as= ASC 1 :capricorn:
Who I will become= DSC 1 :cancer:
How you will become= IC 15 :aries:
Why you will become= MC 15 :libra:

I will attach my chart so you can visually see if I did it correctly :innocent:
Thank you for your help

student4life, I looked at the chart you posted. The wording of the Sabian Symbols (http://www.amazon.com/Sabian-Symbols-Astrology-Illustrated-Horoscopes/dp/094335840X) for the four points are as follows:

Asc = Capricorn 1: An Indian chief demanding recognition
Dsc = Cancer 1: A furled and an unfurled flag displayed from a vessel
MC = Libra 15: Circular paths
IC = Aries 15: An Indian weaving a blanket

thoughtfully
sdh3

[student4life]

sdh3,

Thank you for your input :) ...It gave me a very funny visual reading the statements... An Indian chief wrapped in a blanket waving a flag and walking in circles.... That basically describes my life LOL :whistling:

I will look into them further to get a clear understanding of their meaning :wink:

[sdh3]

sdh3,

Thank you for your input :) ...It gave me a very funny visual reading the statements... An Indian chief wrapped in a blanket waving a flag and walking in circles.... That basically describes my life LOL :whistling:

I will look into them further to get a clear understanding of their meaning :wink:

Got a VERY big belly laugh out of that one. That having been said, you touch upon a very important method or technique--combining the images into a composite. In my opinion finding an underlying or integrating theme that links a set of symbols of interest is an important and under-appreciated consideration.

thoughtfully
sdh3

[piercethevale]

sdh3,

Thank you for your input :) ...It gave me a very funny visual reading the statements... An Indian chief wrapped in a blanket waving a flag and walking in circles.... That basically describes my life LOL :whistling:

I will look into them further to get a clear understanding of their meaning :wink:

Well, I've only recently realized after I published my book that the M.C. is the HOW..or should be.
There are those that will insist there is no soul, no afterlife and are only upon this Earth this one time to wring all the material engrossment they can get out of it ...for those the I.C. would be the HOW.
Look at what I have and did so publish for my Jesus chart. I followed what Rudhyar said and applied Capricorn 1 as the How.
Cap 1* is " AN INDIAN CHIEF CLAIMS POWER FROM THE ASSEMBLED TRIBE.

KEYNOTE: The power and responsibility implied in any claim for leadership.

The religious ideal implied in the preceding symbol has now materialized or crystallized into sheer power — the power to lead the community and to ensure its welfare or even its physical survival. ...." A time comes in many lives when the individual finds himself placed in a situation that allows him to assume power over his comrades... ...It refers to the capacity latent in every individual to claim and assume AUTHORITY in a vital group-situation."

The symbol for Cancer 1*, what would be the 'WHY" is; " ON A SHIP THE SAILORS LOWER AN OLD FLAG AND RAISE A NEW ONE.

KEYNOTE: A radical change of allegiance exteriorized in a symbolical act: a point of no return."

See, at first I agreed with this...then when I realized that Rudhyar was repeatedly saying that all true paths of discipleship begin in Virgo and that the Theosophist shcool of astrology, known as 'Esoteric' [as that is what Theosophists call their brand], claims that the direction to read the procession of the symbols is the opposite way. I finally realized that they were both right but just hadn't put it all together. You do read it in reverse but start at Virgo 30* [Read what i posted yesterday in my thread "The Birthchart of Jesus'" as I had discovered another now development as I finally worked out the Part of Hyleg for the chart]
See, he didn't become the new 'Icon' by assuming control over the 'tribes'...the Jewish 'tribes' didn't accept him...they were not meant to as they were instructed in the Tanakh to no longer recognize any new prophets until further notice from God. He wasn't here for them and Yeshua/Jesus knew that.
He is to be the 'Chief' over all the sects that sprang up that did take him to be their 'Chief'...the Gnostics at first, as they were the only ones to begin with...then the various Catholics...Orthodox, Roman...etc. Then the protestants...etc. Once that is accomplished ...THEN HE is recognized as the common 'Flag of Allegiance'.
It all sprang form realizing that the 1st degree of Libra...symbolized as a perfect specimen impaled by a dart on display and described as 'The Perfect Form of Man' and seems to so obviously represent Jesus on the Cross...that a Butterfly is not born a butterfly but must undergo a chrysalis...Thus the first degree is Virgo 30* ...which is the beginning of the quest..the journey...the path to Conquer the Illusion [not the completion of the conquering of the illusion of Maya as I had believed but when I re-read it and finally noted that Rudhyar said 'it is the beginning of the conquest' ...then you go through all the symbols to end at Libra one degree...go through the 'chrysalis'...become the 'Butterfly' ...the perfection.

You do want to reach spiritual perfection ...don't you? If so...read the M.C. as the HOW.

[piercethevale]

So, as you share those two degrees with Jesus but have Cap. 1* as 'WHO' you are...take that to mean that you are a born leader...that you have executive qualities...even if you only get married and become a housewife...you still will be the executive in your home...so don't let any dude tell you otherwise or try to subjugate you...you are to become a 'Role Model' in a sense...an ideal of inspiration...how do you do that?...by the symbology portrayed in the M.C.

...and I take this to mean to become a master at mastering those seemingly mundane paths...but I also get a sense of the Labyrinth here...and the mystical legend surround that is something you may want to look into. I myself am studying the rumor/myth that there was once one upon Glastonbury Hill...and the deep significance it had. [Supposedly I was a Knight in a court in England 1200 years ago and had quite a bit of association with Glastonbury Hill and plan on going to England next year to spend some time there and see if it 'stirs up' any soul memories ...my clairvoyant friend and spiritual confidante has very much recommended that I do and has said I will find something that I will connect with from the past...and that it is vital to further progress involving my work...which she considers to be a cause..and keeps me believing in myself....as to this endeavor of promoting Sabian Symbolic Astrology so vigorously...much to the consternation of many.]

[student4life]

shd3,

Yeah, I can't turn it off, I always see things as pictures in my head first before I can start taking it apart to understand it. It is rather comical, and I would probably be locked up if the outside world could see how my mind works. ;P

[student4life]

Thank you for sharing all of your considerable knowledge with me. It is much appreciated! I have often read your posts on the Sabian symbols but I don't think I was personally ready for that information yet. I was just reading a post yesterday and it was talking about critical degrees. I realized that I have a large quantity of these so I then started researching further and came to the Sabian symbols.
I work from home and today I did not work at all because I have been so consumed with learning more about this. :)

[piercethevale]

I assume this last post of yours is directed to me.
Well, your 'WHY" of all this is the 15th of Aries and Rudhyar defined it with his 'keynote' as: " Projecting into everyday living the realization of wholeness and fulfillment."

...that's all it is...if you are happy and feeling fulfilled already might I suggest just leaving Astrology alone ..unless it is to examine the proclivities and the debilities you been assigned [the Planetary aspects to one another and all that psycho-babble stuff that is the basis of 'Trad Astrology'...but be careful...as I believe [in fact very sure of this] a lot of the 'Trad' techniques to be erroneous. Such as Planetary rulerships, somewhat, using fixed stars...and I'm not too sure what you are referring to as 'Critical Degrees' but if it's what i think you mean...i wouldn't trust that too much either...IMHO...Of Course!

[student4life]

PTV,

Yes, it was to you, sorry I forgot to address it... No, I don't ever feel fulfilled actually, I constantly have a feeling of needing to do more. I have an insatiable thirst for knowledge and learning and I feel I have something important that I HAVE to do with astrology/ esoteric knowledge. I have not yet put my finger on exactly what that is but I am trying to figure it out. :)

[Sanaqua]

Hi PTV,

First of all, Thanks for posting back. I see, i'm posting my chart, a day later than when you posted me reply. So here's my chart.

In my previous post, i had very carefully wrote my degrees so that i dont have to say that i, by mistake, wrote down something incorrect. I had wrote down everything on a Word Document as a reference, the same day.

I'll be more than happy if you read it and teach me something which i dont know.

You see, here, My Pluto is on 7 degree Scorpio which i'll take as 8 degrees and the same degree is my DC. Since, it's opposing my AC, i'm very very demanding from myself and from others. And sometimes, it becomes a life and death situation for me. I really liked this interpretation in Sabian Symbols which is 'Calm lake bathed in moonlight'. I'm and i'll actually look forward, how it's going to effect me.

[Sanaqua]

Here's an unconventional idea but also one that should resonate with you. Each symbol is a vignette, a word picture, that has narrative qualities. Or you might say that it is part of (or could be part of) a narrative. Perhaps you could understand when and how a particular degree is activated and how that "feels" if you start thinking in terms of narrative arcs. This link will help you get started ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_structure

Hope this helps

thoughtfully
sdh3


Hi Sdh3,

Thanks for your input. I wrote 'i cant understand' for the questions which i listed in my above posts. I'm surely going to read the link, you posted for me, in a while, after i answer the posts already awaiting me.

Regards,
Sanaqua

[Sanaqua]

First off...If you can't understand the sticky, I don't know if I should even continue this conversation. The sticky is written so simply as for an 8 year old to get it. I mean seriously...what don't you understand? There are 30 degrees and they are numbered one to thirty...that's 1 to 30....!?!
To put it simply: Let's say your Mercury is at 0* 31' 45"...then your Mercury is in the first degree...there is no such thing as a Zero degree...just as there was no year 0 AD or 0 BC
The day you were born you were in your first year. You weren't a year old, but YOU WERE IN YOUR FIRST YEAR. The day you completed that first year of life it was your first birthday and you got to say your were a year old, but the next day you were in your second year.
Now, just think degrees. The moment we go into another sign we are in the first degree. Once we complete that first degree we are a full one dgree and it is written thus: 1* 00' 00". But, the moment we got beyond that; 1* 00' 01" we are in the second degree...it's that simple.
What's not to understand?
To put it even more simply, if the degree is not followed by, [B]00' 00" , just round everything up to the next degree.

PTV, I said, 'I couldnt understand' not in the context of counting my degrees. You see my chart, i've posted the rounded up degrees as you have instructed to. However, i couldnt understand how they're activated? Like if they're activated when a transitting planet passes over them? or a Progressed planet or a Solar Arc planet? Here, by 'activation of degrees', i meant the points like Part of accidents or happiness or destruction or increase. And there're a number of questions which i listed in my earlier post.

Your posts are bit advanced but i can comprehend them. I have to read them twice sometimes to have a better understanding but i surely do understand them. I'll be happy if you continue this conversation AS all the time when you took time to post your reply, i have been thinking about it and waiting for your reply. I have to read them twice because you're more experienced, mature and many years older than me in age. So, i've to understand the gist of what you say with concentration.


...as far as what sdh3 is saying...yeah, that is kind of how it works. The symbol for each house cusp is like your role as an actor in a play...and your part is the affairs of that house.
Your first house, your ascendant is who you are...who you were born as. The 7th house cusp, your descendant is who you must become as the affairs of the 7th house are partnerships and public relations...it's your emergence into the outside world ...it's what the world is going to see you as....it's what the Cosmos has decreed you should allow yourself to become...you have free will to resist it if you want...but the birth chart I produced for Jesus has shown that Jesus didn't resist it. In truth, when you are one with the will of the Creator your free will is the same as what the birth chart says you are.

I hadnt checked the option in astro.com which opens a .pdf file where there's every information about the exact degrees of cusps. I have now found out that and i'll check my cusps today. About resisting what i'll become which is actually written by Creator, i have read this in religious context and i agree with every word of you. I dont know what is written for me about what will i become, but i have set my goals that i'll try to be patient, calm and forgiving. I'm exremely demanding from myself and so i'm impatient and impulsive. I have to correct these things.



So, you say your Asc. is the 8th degree of Taurus. What Rudhyar wrote in his book on the Sabian Symbols and defined the 8th degree of Taurus is this.

Taurus 8* " A SLEIGH ON LAND UNCOVERED BY SNOW.

KEYNOTE: The value of anticipating and preparing for expectable conditions.

Here we have a combination of two factors: "the sleigh," which is a product of traditional skill (cf. Taurus 6° symbol) and the ability man has to foresee and thus to prepare for a future situation. This ability relates this symbol to the one for Taurus 7°, because the woman from Samaria had 'the capacity to receive a revelation of the future state of human evolution, though in a different and subconscious sense. Man should be ready to use past knowledge and skill to meet the demands of a stage yet to come.

.... [you need to] realize the value of FUTURE-ORIENTED IMAGINATION but also of relying upon the natural order of unfoldment of all life processes."

Well, this is pretty straight forward and simple as to "WHO" you are.
You are that person that must be mutable...a bit of a challenge for the 'Fixedness' of a Taurus [but as I don't know your Sun sign, I can't get any insight into the depth of your entire being....hence ...WHY, I request the entire chart.] You must be that kind of person that can forever go with the flow...adapt to changes but must be prepared for those changes.
If you know winter is just weeks away and you heat your home with a wood stove you want a cord or two of firewood stashed, covered up from getting wet and nearby and read and available...don't you? You want to have a larder full of food stored in case you get snowed in. You want the roof of your home to be in good shape so as it doesn't leak during the winter storms...thus you should of had it repaired during the summer if it needed repairing. You want your car winterized, the snow tires put on for the winter. You get your heavy blankets or your down comforter out of your cedar chest, your flannel shirts and pajamas out of the trunk, cleaned and ready to wear.
Get it? This is simile of who YOU ARE...[or you'd better allow yourself to be] ...just like the old Boy Scout motto...BE PREPARED...you have to be the kind of person that says to them self; 'Gee, lucky for me I had the foresight to bring mosquito repellent on this fishing trip because everyone else is getting stung like mad." See?


I posted my chart in my post before this. You're right on. I can forever go with the flow but when i have to change, i sometimes adapt at once.
Impatient. I'm verymuch impatient. I'm not from the culture to know the symbolic meaning of a 'sleigh' and what's its significance. But yes, i can understand what you just said about it.
Especially, after i started studying Astrology, i sometimes concieve things about future but i cannot wait for the natural unfolding of events. This is why i call myself impatient. In the meantime, i can experience extreme cycles of boredom and excitment and think that i'll wait forever.

[Sanaqua]

Now as to your Descendant. Who you must be to the world outside of your self...who they will say you were at your funeral.

Scorpio 8* "A CALM LAKE BATHED IN MOONLIGHT.

KEYNOTE: A quiet openness to higher inspiration."

Well, that's pretty straight forward and simple.
As I am both a Quaker and a yogi, this is kind of like who I am myself.
There is no preacher in the meeting house of 'The Society of Friends'. A Quaker doesn't need someone to preach to them...they listen to the 'inner voice'...that 'voice of the spirit', that 'Spirit' has the discernment and wisdom to tell you what to do.
As a yogi that employs meditation ...I can tell you that by meditating...by calming and quieting the 'internal dialogue of your mind'...[that chatter that's always going on in your head that is saying, 'Gee, I wonder if I look proper in these clothes today", or , 'Oh, I wonder what I should have for dinner tonight, should I get a bottle of red wine or white wine...oh, 'The ball game is starting on T.V. in ten minutes, I'd better get the steaks out of the freezer before I get to watching the game.']
You must become a person that is ever ready to hear that voice that can get drowned in the din of too much noise from everything else, particularly your own internal dialogue.
"Wow, I was so caught up in my on drama and thoughts in my head I just walked past a guy giving out hundred dollar bills and didn't notice and now He's given the last one away."

Here, i'll say that i have so much chattering going on in my mind all the times. And it's noise which i have to control through sometimes the music in a very loud volume. And i AM a person even right now who can get absorbed in thoughts so much that i wouldnt even need anyone's company and i can spend hours thinking, imagining and planning. This is not meditation because it's not that i have devoted time for meditation or i sit with the intention of it. Sometimes, it so happens that i imagine a thing so much that it comes true. I attribute this with my Moon in Cancer in my 3rd house of natal chart.

So, how are you to become that kind of person?
That is demonstrated symbolically by the symbol for your I.C. according to Rudhyar. But I did mention that if you feel you want to be a most spiritually oriented person then you have to choose the 'Evolutionary' path and that is symbolically represented by your M.C....
As your Desc. is saying you must be open to 'Higher Inspiration' and to me that is the voice of the 'Spirit'...God, trying to communicate to you, if you please, I'm going to give you the 'Evolutionary' analysis...that is interpret the M.C. as your "HOW"...you are to become the one open to that inner voice.

Due to the moderators here being so 'On MY Case' about going over the 100 word limit on copyright infringement I'm going to have to edit the guts out of the symbol definition by Rudhyar...I want you to go to the website and thoroughly read the entire text for the symbol of the 25th degree of Capricorn
http://mindfire.ca/The%20Sabian%20Symbols/An%20Astrological%20Mandala%20-%20Capricorn%2016-30.htm
[From Rudhyar...with most of it 'gutted']

" A STORE FILLED WITH PRECIOUS ORIENTAL RUGS.

KEYNOTE: The use of cultural and artistic processes as means to enhance personal comfort and appreciation.

... A "rug"...something on which a person stands or sits....is a foundation for cultural "under-standing," ...can have a magical or sacred meaning, as in the case of prayer rugs....[a] "woman in a convent"... knows only the bare floor, because her goal is one of transcendence.... [for] the...devotee praying to ... god, society offers... beautiful rugs...[so one may] meet the universe, not [only] ...in terms of the support the natural soil gives, but protected... and securely established on the mental-spiritual as well as manual achievements of those who keep the cultural symbols alive.

[emphasize] the value of RELIANCE ON TRADITION."

If this is HOW you are to become one open to that spiritual inspiration...one whom must be able to hear the voice of the spirit...it sounds exactly like I was just telling you about that side of my own self...the Quaker yogi that I am.
I would say join a traditional group that utilizes meditation or some yoga activity that quiets the mind...but one that you know to be most traditional and that you will feel comfortable in...[yeah, you don't want to get involved with some Jim Jones or Rajneesh character ...I recommend something like 'Ananda'. There are many 'Ananda' groups that the 'Self Realization Fellowship' charters across the country here in the United States. Or the T.M. group, ...or become a Quaker...or join my Yoga Order there are two chapters is the USA, The Sadhan Order, one is in Chicago, the other in Arizona. if you are not religious then find a very established and traditional group that does activities to calm their being and open themselves to higher inspiration..

Now "WHY" are your being prompted to do all this ..that is symbolically said in the symbol for your I.C....the 25th degree of Cancer.
That is.
To be able to respond to spiritual forces and adapt to the integration of personality through positive will-full endeavors. So as to become one who uses their will and positive imagination in facing life situations. To become a pentecostal descent of power....a incarnate spiritual response, a sign of inner strength and uncommon ENDOWMENT.


Okay, i understand that. I'm religious and i can understand that how can i do what you're saying. No, i'm not in US. But yes, in recent days, i have been planning to join one such group. I want to do this when i'm done with my studies goals and my pursuits about my profession that i want which will encompass my next 2,3 or perhaps 4 years. I dont know if it happens through a pre-planning or it's the natural way. Like you say that you're a Quaker and a yogi, in my culture, i'm thinking to join two sects too. Infact, i cannot say anything right now. Decisions like these require a vast and clear knowledge which i'm on the way but obviously i'm a student right now. I dont have 'acquired' that yet.

[Sanaqua]

PTV,

I was reading your post on Sabian symbols and the four cardinal points of the chart. I want to make sure I am understanding what you were saying correctly.

ASC = Who you were born as
DSC = Who you will become
IC = How you will become
MC= Why you will become

And you did mention that in some cases the IC and MC switch meaning as in:
IC = Why you will become
MC = How you will become

So for my own purposes I would do as follows:

Who I was born as= ASC 1 :capricorn:
Who I will become= DSC 1 :cancer:
How you will become= IC 15 :aries:
Why you will become= MC 15 :libra:

I will attach my chart so you can visually see if I did it correctly :innocent:
Thank you for your help


Hi student4life,

Here, i felt like you have intruded into my thread. I dont know your intentions but i really felt that you could have had started another about your own chart. Sorry but i felt this and said so. :)

Symbology is really new for me and i am really dedicated to learn from this thread and my chart in a new way..

Regards,
Sanaqua.

[Sanaqua]

PTV,

here in this post, i'll list down the specific questions which i wanted to ask in my previous messages too, besides what i saw in my chart.

1) Just like in Astrology, we read progressed charts, what is the equivalent chart in Sabian symbols? Do Symbols progress also?

2) From the four points you've mentioned in my charts, i get to know about my existence or should i say the purpose of my existence. But can we predict future from Sabian symbols?

3) Again, how do particular points in a chart are activated? For example, say if there's a Part of Increase, will it be a transitting planet or a progressed planet which will come over it and this degree will be activated?

4) Like you explained many things in spiritual terms in my chart, do the same degrees represent worldly things also?

I'll come up with more questions as they come into my mind, i have to ask.

I'll get a print out of Rudhyar's book and read it thoroughly, yes.

Awaiting your next posts. :)

Regards,
Sanaqua.

[sdh3]

Sanaqua, I know you posed these questions for PtV but I hope you don't mind me chiming in with a few answers of my own. They are such good questions and so well posed that I couldn't resist!
thoughtfully
sdh3

PTV,

here in this post, i'll list down the specific questions which i wanted to ask in my previous messages too, besides what i saw in my chart.

1) Just like in Astrology, we read progressed charts, what is the equivalent chart in Sabian symbols? Do Symbols progress also?

I don't think there is a such an equivalent. I've never heard of the symbols progressing in the manner you suggest.

2) From the four points you've mentioned in my charts, i get to know about my existence or should i say the purpose of my existence. But can we predict future from Sabian symbols?

Not sure there is anything that can predict the future. But I do think that the Sabian symbols provide an interesting and unique vantage point about how certain themes and events MAY work out. This statement is based on my understanding of the symbols as miniature stories or narratives or, if you prefer, as the backbone of narrative structures.

3) Again, how do particular points in a chart are activated? For example, say if there's a Part of Increase, will it be a transitting planet or a progressed planet which will come over it and this degree will be activated?

I think the answer is both. That is to say, both transiting and progressed planets will activate a certain degree.

4) Like you explained many things in spiritual terms in my chart, do the same degrees represent worldly things also?

I think the answer here is yes, absolutely so. Of course we must not interpret the symbols over-literally. If Taurus 4 (A rainbow's pot of gold) is activated I wouldn't expect that you would literally find that. But if you do...please considering sharing your good fortune ;-)

[piercethevale]

1) Just like in Astrology, we read progressed charts, what is the equivalent chart in Sabian symbols? Do Symbols progress also?

A. In any progressed hart you should refer to the Sabians...and that includes progressed composites...just don't give it as much importance...sort of like the natal chart is the overall war strategy but the progressed is the plan for the current battle at hand. I calculate Parts for progressed charts too but I only concern myself with the 'Big Ones' such as Catastrophe, Fortune, Sudden Advancement...check what you believe may be of major concern during the time they remain within that degree and symbol.


2) From the four points you've mentioned in my charts, I get to know about my existence or should i say the purpose of my existence. But can we predict future from Sabian symbols?

A. Yes. But more as to tendencies. Read some of these threads: [url]http://actastrology.com/viewforum.php?f=70

3) Again, how do particular points in a chart are activated? For example, say if there's a Part of Increase, will it be a transitting planet or a progressed planet which will come over it and this degree will be activated?

A. Certainly the transiting of any planet involved in the formula...or it's higher or lower octave planet...not every time..or maybe at times it can be so subtle as to nearly unnoticeable.
Pluto was conj. my Part of Intelligence when I figured most of these Astrological questions out. It was also conj. the night I did an hour interview on the Rick Barber radio program [KOA Denver] on Dec. 22, 2005...at their request ...as my Part of Intelligence is 24* Sag. 18' and transiting Pluto that night was at 24* Sag. 31'. Also the North Node that night was in the 10th degree of Aries...the symbol for that is: ARIES 10°: "A TEACHER GIVES NEW SYMBOLIC FORMS TO TRADITIONAL IMAGES."
...so, you could say, 'that night the spotlight was definitely on me' ...as most everyone maintains that the North Node has reference to world society and isn't really of personal concern so much, if at all. Well, yes the symbol of the Nth. Node that night was about what the World was to expect...but, it was as to what I was engaged in...thus on every day the North Node just might also be referring to some person on Earth that is the summation of that symbol as to what they are engaged in...


4) Like you explained many things in spiritual terms in my chart, do the same degrees represent worldly things also?

A. Hardly...even if it may seem so...I don't believe God placed all the precepts in the zodiac so as to assist our worldly concerns...but rather for our spiritual ones.

Let me give an example.
Your Part of Inheritance and Legacy isn't about what your Aunt Sophie left you in her will...it's about your spiritual inheritance. My Part of Inheritance and Legacy is the 19th of Pisces which happens to be the same as Yeshua/Jesus' Part of Fortune: "A MASTER INSTRUCTING HIS DISCIPLE[S]"...so, you tell me...do you think my Part of Inheritance is about 'worldly things'?
Also, Uranus was conj. the 8th of Pisces that night and the 8th of Pisces is my Hermetic Lot of Victory.

Uranus was conj. the 19th of Pisces the day I moved out of the old Folsom Hotel after five and a half years into this apt. exactly as my clairvoyant friend and spiritual confidante, Clarisse Conner, had described it to be in May 2006...where She said I would write the book I did write...and also that day Pluto was conj. my Part of Transformation at, 28* Sag. 24', and I received the postcard from Clarisse that told me of her vision concerning me that she had on May 8th [that I will attach to this post so you an see for your self...as I am supposed to be the re-incarnation of Parsival...and my friend Suryakant gave me the book by Trevor Ravenscroft, "The Cup of Destiny" the day after I got her postcard...and that book is all about Parsival...and his predicted return for the new millennium...so Clarisse's postcard was telling me just before Suryakant gave me the book that I was whom I was about to read about...TRANSFORMATION TIME for sure... definitely]



Clarisse's postcard to me [ps. Suryakant was Galahad in that life we shared 1200 years ago...His M.C. is the 7th of Aries " A MAN SUCCEEDS IN EXPRESSING HIMSELF SIMULTANEOUSLY IN TWO REALMS."...legend has it that Galahad found the Holy Grail and because of this the Angels came down to Earth and took him into Heaven without his having to undergo death and He thus became the man with a foot in each of two realms...i.e. Heaven and Earth...]

[sdh3]

Thank you for sharing all of your considerable knowledge with me. It is much appreciated! I have often read your posts on the Sabian symbols but I don't think I was personally ready for that information yet. I was just reading a post yesterday and it was talking about critical degrees. I realized that I have a large quantity of these so I then started researching further and came to the Sabian symbols.
I work from home and today I did not work at all because I have been so consumed with learning more about this. :)

You're most welcome. I know that my interpretations are a little on the heavy side. That's an artifact of the way my mind works and the rigorous formula which I adopted for the interpretations.

Btw, I've just posted to scribd what are the very near-to-last versions of my interpretations of all 360 Sabian Symbols. Each symbols has its own URL so along with the Introductory chapter there are 361 files in two "collections"

Sabian Symbols by Degree, Part 1, Aries 1-Virgo 30 + Introduction (http://www.scribd.com/my_document_collections/3362133)

Sabian Symbols by Degree, Part 2, Libra 1- Pisces 30 (http://www.scribd.com/my_document_collections/3332747)

Once I've finished the case study and the conclusion sections, I'll make a more formal announcement about the interpretations.

thoughtfully
sdh3

[student4life]

sdh,

I love it! You are a brainy little bugger aren't you :cool:... That was a wonderful tutorial, and it was right up my ally! I absolutely love getting to the root and etymology of things. So much is lost in translation that it is important to understand the beginnings to therefore understand the ends (if your picking up what I'm putting down) :wink: Thank you for sharing!!!

[piercethevale]

Hi PTV,

First of all, Thanks for posting back. I see, i'm posting my chart, a day later than when you posted me reply. So here's my chart.

In my previous post, i had very carefully wrote my degrees so that i dont have to say that i, by mistake, wrote down something incorrect. I had wrote down everything on a Word Document as a reference, the same day.

I'll be more than happy if you read it and teach me something which i dont know.

You see, here, My Pluto is on 7 degree Scorpio which i'll take as 8 degrees and the same degree is my DC. Since, it's opposing my AC, i'm very very demanding from myself and from others. And sometimes, it becomes a life and death situation for me. I really liked this interpretation in Sabian Symbols which is 'Calm lake bathed in moonlight'. I'm and i'll actually look forward, how it's going to effect me.
Hi Sanaqua. I apologize for not seeing this post...your thread got kind of 'hi-jacked' and it is confusing...I just had to flip between the two pages here 3 times as I would get confused as to whose post I was reading.
The way you titled your thread does make it an open forum though...as you wrote it as to be taken as for demonstration of technique[s] and an invitation for all as to submitting examples to demonstrate upon and discuss.
[this might become a 'Sticky' also...]

I apologize for the mis-understanding on the enumeration of the degrees. I've gotten that question so many times that I now get 'testy' whenever it comes up. I had to write that sticky and then clamor for the mods to approve it for a sticky. I know that a couple/few times some one would only tell me they didn't understand the concept as they were certainly only 'trolls'...in my opinion... It went on a lot at astrodienst.com forum when I was a member there...and astrodienst does get the 'Trolls'.
I was suspecting you possibly were too, that's why I was so gruff. [not to mention all the other types of 'attacks' that I have to endure for writing on the subject of 'Jesus and Astrology'...from both those that worship Him and those that worship His antagonist....it's not easy....sort of a 'Razors Edge' kind of deal.]

Anyways...Pluto conj. the Desc. is quite interesting. I've never met anyone with this before.
While the authors Sakoian and Acker do attribute much metaphysical proclivity to Pluto conj. the M.C. and the Asc. they make no mention of such for Pluto conj. Desc or conj. the I.C.
I wrote in my book that Yeshua's Pluto conj. His Asc. also might be most significant in that it assures the 'Transformation' from the Asc. , "WHO", to the Desc. , "WHERE-TO", or as I like to call it sometimes the , "WHOM-TO".
But giving it some thought again this morn. I can kind of see it as saying 'Transformation after physical death"...and that is what happened...the 'Transfiguration".
So, if that's correct then Pluto on the Desc. should also ensure this Transformation but before death...I would think...anyways.

[piercethevale]

PTV,

Yes, it was to you, sorry I forgot to address it... No, I don't ever feel fulfilled actually, I constantly have a feeling of needing to do more. I have an insatiable thirst for knowledge and learning and I feel I have something important that I HAVE to do with astrology/ esoteric knowledge. I have not yet put my finger on exactly what that is but I am trying to figure it out. :)

Just realized what I wrote awhile back, as to 'leaving astrology alone",was probably mis-interpreted as I realized I had written rather poorly.
I meant; to not use asgtrology to self analyze your self if that's the reason you're studying it. I didn't mean, as to being an Astrologer.

I pray, I didn't insult you..if so my sincerest apologies ...but do know it was not my intent to do so.
ptv

[Sanaqua]

Sanaqua, I know you posed these questions for PtV but I hope you don't mind me chiming in with a few answers of my own. They are such good questions and so well posed that I couldn't resist!
thoughtfully
sdh3

Hi sdh3,

You're most welcome to contribute in this thread and to my questions, sdh3. It goes without saying. :)
And, it goes without saying that you can surely answer my next questions also as they come into my mind.
And thanks much for answering these ones. It's always nice to hear different views on the subjects which you dont/do know about. :)

[Sanaqua]

A. In any progressed hart you should refer to the Sabians...and that includes progressed composites...just don't give it as much importance...sort of like the natal chart is the overall war strategy but the progressed is the plan for the current battle at hand. I calculate Parts for progressed charts too but I only concern myself with the 'Big Ones' such as Catastrophe, Fortune, Sudden Advancement...check what you believe may be of major concern during the time they remain within that degree and symbol.

I havent checked the progressed degrees in progressed chart but no progressed planet is hitting any natal degrees in my chart for some major incident like inheritance or catastrophe or anything. My next experiment would be to see that as planets progress on the degrees, what are they symbolising for my life?



A. Certainly the transiting of any planet involved in the formula...or it's higher or lower octave planet...not every time..or maybe at times it can be so subtle as to nearly unnoticeable.
Pluto was conj. my Part of Intelligence when I figured most of these Astrological questions out. It was also conj. the night I did an hour interview on the Rick Barber radio program [KOA Denver] on Dec. 22, 2005...at their request ...as my Part of Intelligence is 24* Sag. 18' and transiting Pluto that night was at 24* Sag. 31'. Also the North Node that night was in the 10th degree of Aries...the symbol for that is: ARIES 10°: "A TEACHER GIVES NEW SYMBOLIC FORMS TO TRADITIONAL IMAGES."
...so, you could say, 'that night the spotlight was definitely on me' ...as most everyone maintains that the North Node has reference to world society and isn't really of personal concern so much, if at all. Well, yes the symbol of the Nth. Node that night was about what the World was to expect...but, it was as to what I was engaged in...thus on every day the North Node just might also be referring to some person on Earth that is the summation of that symbol as to what they are engaged in...

Okay, i got your point here. But if we think about it from some other point, though you were called for an interview and you were invited to talk about a subject of unusual theme, isnt it a worldly thing also that so many people got to know about you? A source of fame?

A. Hardly...even if it may seem so...I don't believe God placed all the precepts in the zodiac so as to assist our worldly concerns...but rather for our spiritual ones.

Let me give an example.
Your Part of Inheritance and Legacy isn't about what your Aunt Sophie left you in her will...it's about your spiritual inheritance. My Part of Inheritance and Legacy is the 19th of Pisces which happens to be the same as Yeshua/Jesus' Part of Fortune: "A MASTER INSTRUCTING HIS DISCIPLE[S]"...so, you tell me...do you think my Part of Inheritance is about 'worldly things'?
Also, Uranus was conj. the 8th of Pisces that night and the 8th of Pisces is my Hermetic Lot of Victory.

Uranus was conj. the 19th of Pisces the day I moved out of the old Folsom Hotel after five and a half years into this apt. exactly as my clairvoyant friend and spiritual confidante, Clarisse Conner, had described it to be in May 2006...where She said I would write the book I did write...and also that day Pluto was conj. my Part of Transformation at, 28* Sag. 24', and I received the postcard from Clarisse that told me of her vision concerning me that she had on May 8th [that I will attach to this post so you an see for your self...as I am supposed to be the re-incarnation of Parsival...and my friend Suryakant gave me the book by Trevor Ravenscroft, "The Cup of Destiny" the day after I got her postcard...and that book is all about Parsival...and his predicted return for the new millennium...so Clarisse's postcard was telling me just before Suryakant gave me the book that I was whom I was about to read about...TRANSFORMATION TIME for sure... definitely]

Clarisse's postcard to me [ps. Suryakant was Galahad in that life we shared 1200 years ago...His M.C. is the 7th of Aries " A MAN SUCCEEDS IN EXPRESSING HIMSELF SIMULTANEOUSLY IN TWO REALMS."...legend has it that Galahad found the Holy Grail and because of this the Angels came down to Earth and took him into Heaven without his having to undergo death and He thus became the man with a foot in each of two realms...i.e. Heaven and Earth...]


This is very interesting to read. I'll check my degrees too especially when we moved into our own house. Before this, we were living in rental home. This was the time, with which i had rectified my chart to the correct timings of my birth. I read this postcard that you attached. What is it that she wrote about Jupiter in Saggi and Sun? Did she compared visions with your chart?


From this lady that you mentioned, another question has come to my mind. You said, she's clairvoyant. How do clairvoyants work? Is this some natural ability or God-gifted? Plus, Can she have visions about just anyone or just you? Does she compare astrology with her visions too?

[Sanaqua]

Hi Sanaqua. I apologize for not seeing this post...your thread got kind of 'hi-jacked' and it is confusing...I just had to flip between the two pages here 3 times as I would get confused as to whose post I was reading.
The way you titled your thread does make it an open forum though...as you wrote it as to be taken as for demonstration of technique[s] and an invitation for all as to submitting examples to demonstrate upon and discuss.
[this might become a 'Sticky' also...]

I apologize for the mis-understanding on the enumeration of the degrees. I've gotten that question so many times that I now get 'testy' whenever it comes up. I had to write that sticky and then clamor for the mods to approve it for a sticky. I know that a couple/few times some one would only tell me they didn't understand the concept as they were certainly only 'trolls'...in my opinion... It went on a lot at astrodienst.com forum when I was a member there...and astrodienst does get the 'Trolls'.
I was suspecting you possibly were too, that's why I was so gruff. [not to mention all the other types of 'attacks' that I have to endure for writing on the subject of 'Jesus and Astrology'...from both those that worship Him and those that worship His antagonist....it's not easy....sort of a 'Razors Edge' kind of deal.]

Anyways...Pluto conj. the Desc. is quite interesting. I've never met anyone with this before.
While the authors Sakoian and Acker do attribute much metaphysical proclivity to Pluto conj. the M.C. and the Asc. they make no mention of such for Pluto conj. Desc or conj. the I.C.
I wrote in my book that Yeshua's Pluto conj. His Asc. also might be most significant in that it assures the 'Transformation' from the Asc. , "WHO", to the Desc. , "WHERE-TO", or as I like to call it sometimes the , "WHOM-TO".
But giving it some thought again this morn. I can kind of see it as saying 'Transformation after physical death"...and that is what happened...the 'Transfiguration".
So, if that's correct then Pluto on the Desc. should also ensure this Transformation but before death...I would think...anyways.



It's alright PTV. I sensed that my previous messages were ignored because this lady popped into and posted many messages. With only a one day difference, there were many messages not pertaining to my posts. And yes, i am feeling 'hi-jacked' and the lady hasn't responded even that i have addressed a single post to her.

Yeah, the topic was generalised and i didnt want to post my chart untill someone asks me to BUT i hadnt created this thread with an intention that someone else would post their chart and will take the course of conversation in a direction which i didnt want. The purpose i had in my mind was to get answered the questions which i had in my mind. If you check out there, you'll find the same questions written in my 1st or 2nd post too. And i wanted this thread to be a serious educational thread. Yes, if someone in moderators or you want to make it a 'Sticky', most welcome.

Pluto conj. DC is about my marriage partner too. And about my own self too. You see, it is exactly opposing my AC which is already in a demanding sign of Taurus. I'm very demanding from myself and i am very demanding when it comes to the choice of a husband for me. I have high ethical values' idealism aboout my husband. I'm not an idiot and so i dont want an idiot for myself. So, it makes me demanding. Also, i'm always learning from surroundings and people, without even hinting them about it. So, this is about 'people' (because it is 7th house) transforming me. And my mentor and teacher in astrology has told me that it can be interpreted in a way that my husband will transform me. (I hope in a good way). And i believe it even more because i read somewhere, last days, that this degree "Calm lake bathed in moonlight' can be taken slightly in a romantic way also. This is why i love this degree. My Pluto makes a square with my Venus in Aqua. Venus rules my AC. So, somehow it says that it wont be a 'love marriage'.
Obviously, only time will tell how this comes out be but checking degrees of house cusps is going to help me, i think.

Another thing which i have to be careful when i have Pluto conj. DC is that i always select my teachers carefully. If someone has bad concepts regarding things, i try to avoid them. In a way, you become what your teacher is. And i since 'absorb' effects from people i have to be extra careful.

[piercethevale]

[/COLOR]

I havent checked the progressed degrees in progressed chart but no progressed planet is hitting any natal degrees in my chart for some major incident like inheritance or catastrophe or anything. My next experiment would be to see that as planets progress on the degrees, what are they symbolising for my life?



Okay, i got your point here. But if we think about it from some other point, though you were called for an interview and you were invited to talk about a subject of unusual theme, isnt it a worldly thing also that so many people got to know about you? A source of fame?

[COLOR=sienna][COLOR=#000000]


This is very interesting to read. I'll check my degrees too especially when we moved into our own house. Before this, we were living in rental home. This was the time, with which i had rectified my chart to the correct timings of my birth. I read this postcard that you attached. What is it that she wrote about Jupiter in Saggi and Sun? Did she compared visions with your chart?


From this lady that you mentioned, another question has come to my mind. You said, she's clairvoyant. How do clairvoyants work? Is this some natural ability or God-gifted? Plus, Can she have visions about just anyone or just you? Does she compare astrology with her visions too?

Well, I for one don't place a whole lot of emphasis on the Symbols for the degrees the Planets/Luminaries are found to be in, so much as I do for what is found on the Axis Points, the Nodes and the Arabic Parts...the major Parts anyways...Hyleg, Destiny, Fortune , spirit, Inheritance, Service, Love, Catastrophe and Sudden Advancement..not to forget the Hermetic Lots either...[I'm just really becoming aware of them and believe it will be crucial for many of us to familiarize ourselves with the symbols we find on our own. ...as these are Parts [or Lots] known as Necessity, Courage and Victory...and I believe, for some f us, this year of 2012 will be the year those words and concepts/precepts have the most meaning of anytime else in our life past or yet to come...we'll see...but it don't hurt a bit to get to know them even if you don't believe in any 'Doom and Gloom' type of predictions for this coming year.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that the Node aren't the 'Worlds Message' , or that it WAS, ALL ABOUT ME, that night....I've always figured that our natal North Node is a bit too underestimated as to how much they can mean to any individuals in trying to grasp, or understand, some occurrence of a Calamitous nature.
Yeah, as to a radio interview on AM in the middle of the night, it would be no big deal. I had already done one earlier the same year in January, in Phoenix for the CBS affiliate station there, but low watt, limited in range to pretty much just Northern Arizona and southern Nevada...Jackrabbits and sage brush, THAT'S that's the audience...For a gal that has a program there, her name is Rain Morgan, and her show is called 'Rain of Truth'. nothing special about the stars that eve. a terrible interview actually as the fellow that recommended me to her as a potential interviewee with an interesting story, [the book wasn't written yet, I had only had the chart about 3 mos. and she had a devious and nasty little plot to get me to talk about something entirely else that I hadn't agreed to but she knew about due to the fellow mentioning me to her had know me since High School and went to the same college too...600 miles away. He and I confide in one another., have done so since the 60s,and he knew that I had been to jail for 120 days in 2003 that was due to my defending myself and my sister that was of a nature of something I don't like to talk about..has nothing to do with Astrology and or my work with that, but apparently told her and she invited me to talk about Astrology on the air and then ambushed me...[then had the nerve to 'hit on me afterwards...sheeesh.] ..but, that one in Dec. 2005 was for 'Rick Barber'...he's the guy that Art Bell calls his 'Mentor', the guy that got Art his gig and without whom Art may have been working the graveyard shift at an AM/PM somewhere's. Ricks show hits most all of the Rockies, all of the Central and Eastern Time Zone regions, and is highly respected and has a large fan base. As large as Art Bells from what I understand. [bigger I believe!] I also did one for internet radio, blogtalkradio, for Dr. Reggie...a minister from Georgia, that has a congregation and is a rather 'progressive Christian'...it is archived and can still be heard. But it is not my best as Dr. Reggie and I didn't talk before hand and He had no idea what I was going to say or say how much.and He didn't realize that an hours time is just about as minimum an amount of time that I can squeeze in all that needs to be understood about the Astrology I use, [and Astrology in general for those that know absolutely nothing about it.] It was a bit of a nuisance to have to fend Him off at one point and keep the 'briefing' going for everyone trying to follow what I'm going on about. He loosed up a bit...but , I do stammer in a few spots as he has made me lose the thread of the info. I was giving out and explaining.
I know it does seem highly egotistical to say something as such..but, the coincidence was of such improbable odds as to not go unnoticed..and commented upon as it does demonstrate how the Nodes work in relation as being the signposts of where the mass of societal consciousness has left, the South Node, and the destination it is heading to , the North Node. It's that I'm pretty sure no one has ever noted and brought to the Worlds attention that it literally applied 100% to their own life that day as well. It surely must be that at least one person on earth will have 'Their Day and Their 15 minutes of fame today and being complete synch wth 'It All' [It's all, like, so....'cosmic Man...
I said. Read my threads in the 'Prediction in Astrology' sub forum of the Astrological Techniques forum,[those threads that mention retro grade planets...there's one on the Nodes too.] here: http://actastrology.com/viewforum.php?f=70&sid=34b502840a8bf37de46f4a9c04b1f690
and you see that the Node is half the Message we get from the 'Stars' as to worldly events.

[piercethevale]

Well, I for one don't place a whole lot of emphasis on the Symbols for the degrees the Planets/Luminaries are found to be in, so much as I do for what is found on the Axis Points, the Nodes and the Arabic Parts...the major Parts anyways...Hyleg, Destiny, Fortune , spirit, Inheritance, Service, Love, Catastrophe and Sudden Advancement..not to forget the Hermetic Lots either... known as Necessity, Courage and Victory...and I believe, for some f us, this year of 2012 will be the year those words and concepts/precepts have the most meaning of anytime else in our life past or yet to come...we'll see...but it don't hurt a bit to get to know them even if you don't believe in any 'Doom and Gloom' type of predictions for this coming year.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that the Node aren't the 'Worlds Message' , or that it WAS, ALL ABOUT ME, that night....I've always figured that our natal North Node is a bit too underestimated as to how much they can mean to any individuals in trying to grasp, or understand, some occurrence of a Calamitous nature.
Yeah, as to a radio interview on AM in the middle of the night, it would be no big deal. I had already done one earlier the same year in January, in Phoenix for the CBS affiliate station there, but low watt, limited in range to pretty much just Northern Arizona and southern Nevada...Jackrabbits and sage brush, THAT'S that's the audience...For a gal that has a program there, her name is Rain Morgan, and her show is called 'Rain of Truth'. nothing special about the stars that eve. a terrible interview actually as the fellow that recommended me to her as a potential interviewee with an interesting story, [the book wasn't written yet, I had only had the chart about 3 mos. and she had a devious and nasty little plot to get me to talk about something entirely else that I hadn't agreed to but she knew about due to the fellow mentioning me to her had know me since High School and went to the same college too...600 miles away. He and I confide in one another., have done so since the 60s,and he knew that I had been to jail for 120 days in 2003 that was due to my defending myself and my sister that was of a nature of something I don't like to talk about..has nothing to do with Astrology and or my work with that, but apparently told her and she invited me to talk about Astrology on the air and then ambushed me...[then had the nerve to 'hit on me afterwards...sheeesh.] ..but, that one in Dec. 2005 was for 'Rick Barber'...he's the guy that Art Bell calls his 'Mentor', the guy that got Art his gig and without whom Art may have been working the graveyard shift at an AM/PM somewhere's. Ricks show hits most all of the Rockies, all of the Central and Eastern Time Zone regions, and is highly respected and has a large fan base. As large as Art Bells from what I understand. [bigger I believe!] I also did one for internet radio, blogtalkradio, for Dr. Reggie...a minister from Georgia, that has a congregation and is a rather 'progressive Christian'...it is archived and can still be heard. But it is not my best as Dr. Reggie and I didn't talk before hand and He had no idea what I was going to say or say how much.and He didn't realize that an hours time is just about as minimum an amount of time that I can squeeze in all that needs to be understood about the Astrology I use, [and Astrology in general for those that know absolutely nothing about it.] It was a bit of a nuisance to have to fend Him off at one point and keep the 'briefing' going for everyone trying to follow what I'm going on about. He loosed up a bit...but , I do stammer in a few spots as he has made me lose the thread of the info. I was giving out and explaining.
I know it does seem highly egotistical to say something as such..but, the coincidence was of such improbable odds as to not go unnoticed..and commented upon as it does demonstrate how the Nodes work in relation as being the signposts of where the mass of societal consciousness has left, the South Node, and the destination it is heading to , the North Node. It's that I'm pretty sure no one has ever noted and brought to the Worlds attention that it literally applied 100% to their own life that day as well. It surely must be that at least one person on earth will have 'Their Day and Their 15 minutes of fame today and being complete synch wth 'It All' [It's all, like, so....'cosmic Man...and as for 'past lives and such...very conceited, egotistical and all...but, as some big names and respected writers have written and or predicted that an incarnation of some figures from the past coming back right at this time and doing exactly what it is I've supposedly done...The Masons and the Templars are supposed to be very expectant and awaiting this return. But, the real Masons and Templars...not those that go around and talk of NWO and let themselves be publicly displaying and presenting themselves as. I'm told they would be laying very 'low' at this time and couldn't publicly make any act that would draw suspicion on themselves. So, what else can I do but to not conceal what I've been lead to believe [[I]and seen enough too believe it..or at worst, not question itSo I do make an extra effort to also sit here at the keyboard and screen and find even more ways to get some of this to catch the attention of those that are said to be awaiting.
I might even be a 'decoy' for all I know..brainwashed to believe I see something in Astrological birthcharts now,
I said. Read my threads in the 'Prediction in Astrology' sub forum of the Astrological Techniques forum,[those threads that mention retro grade planets...there's one on the Nodes too.] here: http://actastrology.com/viewforum.php?f=70&sid=34b502840a8bf37de46f4a9c04b1f690
and you see that the Node is half the Message we get from the 'Stars' as to worldly events.

ps... I apologize for the crude form of this reponse, it's composure and such as I wrote it between 2 and 3 AM here and I've been up since mid-night last night...haven't got the chance or the quiet here...till about an hour or two ago, to really get some peace.
..and I do tend to ramble when I've slept so little and had anything to drink..as New Years is just that sort of excuse to drink. around here..sooo, drink we did today, [especially when the Oakland Raiders blew another game today and missed the playoffs again for the 10th year in a row......[don't judge me for that, please...I'm not an alcoholic or a drug addict...despite, or inspite of the fact I call myself an, 'Old Hippy".
Regards, Dave
I just decided I'd better respond and answer your post before someone else answers 'my call', responds to 'to the letter addressed to me'...and yes, it is most rude and a known faux pas to intrude upon a thread and then start a counter conversation with a 4th party as if they had interrupted a call on a 'party line ' that was a personal coversation , one on one, and started talking to a 4th party without declaring an emergency, as is cause for interrupting a 'party line' ...or asking how long will your conversation last as they have an urgent call to make.
I doubt that you would know about Party Lines. They pretty much disappeared from everywhere that used to have them, sometime in the 1980s. At one time most all of rural America had only 'Party Lines' , back when the phones were mounted on the wall, and you had to crank them to ring the bell of the operator or whom ever it was that you were calling...but, everyone who grew up in the country, real rural America had been taught just that kind of respect and etiquette. America keeps getting more and more callous and crude. [and I do know that 'THIS" isn't 'America'...nor is the web-site or the server or...etc. but I'm just saying...as I suspect most of the offenders here at the forum that do such rude acts, without even being aware that they are, are in fact fellow 'Yanks'...
BTW...I take it you are not from the States or even America...but I'm making an learned guess from certain waysyou use some words and sentence structure...am I correct?

[Sanaqua]

Hi PTV,

Tried to send you a PM but they said that you're exceeding your limit of accepting any PM. Then, i checked to send you a visitors message but seems you havent allowed that too.
Either leave me your email address in inbox (if you feel comfortable with that) or i'll try sending you PM again. :)

Regards,
Sanaqua.

[student4life]

Hi Sanaqua,

I just noticed this post from you or I would have responded earlier. I am very sorry you felt I intruded on to your thread, no offense intended. I thought the purpose of the forum was to share ideas and questions to further our knowledge. I was reading the thread and came upon the area about cardinal points and I wanted to make sure I was understanding the information correctly. It seemed that positing the question for clarification would be most appropriate on that same thread. Once again I apologize for any misconception I might have given you, though I am not quite sure what you could have thought my "intentions" were. I truly wish you good luck on your journey to learning and understanding symbology through astrology.

Sincerely,
Student4life