vertex falling in 8th house--what does it karmically mean?

[VENUS]

hello,
i have a close friend of the opp sex whose sun is conjunct my vertex, and falls in my 8th house. (we also have other karmic connections in our synastry)When i first met this person, i automatically knew we had met in a past life. i might even be convinced now that we mightve been twins, or something close like that. ( especially since hes a gemini maybe?) ( our moons and nodes are also conjunct.) whats weird is that he has alot of conjunctions with my family members as well ( alot.) So my question is, how could we have been connected in a past life (considering the conjunction in 8th house, because i dont think its sexual, i know it doesnt have to be sexual of course because i know 8th house is karmic)
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h40/pinkpoodle26/xxxx.gif

[freedomlover]

8th house/Scorpio rules soul mates.

You don't have to be lovers in the sexual sense to be soul mates.

[VENUS]

u think we couldve been twins in a past life?

[freedomlover]

I'm no expert on the subject. But from what I saw in the chart, my opinion... yeah, I think it's a good possibility, or maybe just very close siblings. Gemini rules regular siblings, as well as twins. But, heh, there's even a possibility you two are "twin souls".

[Betelgeuse]

Hello,

Maybe il try to give a hand in this subject.

Vertex reprezents the method of recepting the energies. It also called " The gate of destiny ", it's called like that because it reprezents the karmic path which we encounter people whit great meaning in our life, which can change our way of reaching that " Path of destiny ". Don't wonder, cause Vertex also reprezents our vocation that is given by advice from others, ( example " I think you should become a chimist ", Vertex in Virgo makes other's think your best vocation is chemestry or job's related to the same sign. ). So Vertex reprezent our path in life according to what people we meet, how they can help us and sometimes can show a karmical punishment/reward from another person. When it comes to relationship astrology, Vertex reprezents what draw those two people to meet, what was the cause, and of course, what effect is going to be. ( Vertex reprezents also the cause and the effect ).

Sun/Vertex conjunction surely is quite energetic, cause Vertex person will recept all the Sun's energy, so you two were drawn karmicaly to each-other.
You two actualy meet eachother in a past life, which shows great friendship and maybe more. Bieng in 8th house reprezents something quite important, for better for worse, this house can show that this person will be important for your changing and for your transformation. Whit this person you have many things to learn and experience in this life, lessons which can make you discover how to make things better. You just got to be careful, tensionated moments will occur, but this is to bring out the good from both of you, if you accept the chalange's in life you might transform into something better.

[VENUS]

wow, thanks freedom lover and betelgeuse.....all your insights are so interesting. And yes, the way we met is actually very strange. I never bothered to tell him because he prob wouldve thought i was nuts. (Although i got him very in to astrology and more interested in metaphysical studies.) I am very psychicly aware with myself and i have encountered alot of weird happenings before, but the friendship with this person is REALLY weird. I am still convinced that this person mightve been my twin or something. Would it be weird if i said he looks like he came from both my parents (he looks like a combo of them, were also the same heritage by the way, and were from the same home town, and met in delaware.) WEIRD.....

[RisingPluto]

hey venus.

I also have vertex in the 8 house. Do you think it has given you a fate of many personal transformations and very deep relationships?
Its pretty cool to see how your moon conjuncts his north node and vice versa. The moon is past life too, or what you have to get rid of in this life,
and the north node being the future, obviously you two are really meant to experience something together. His venus is on your dc and his pluto on your ac. Really powerful connection.
A friend and I share the vertex conjunct moon and it was instant friendship and trust, really nice and unique. Another guy has his south node conjunct my moon and I instantly felt I knew him from a past life. Could you tell more about how you felt you knew him from a past life? Im so interested in these things :)

peace,
Anita

[VenusInAries]

Does the anti-vertex have the same energy as the vertex then? My vertex is in the 8th house as well, but my b/f's mercury and neptune conjunct my anti-vertex and my moon conjuncts his anti-vertex so wondering if it's the same energy as the vertex.

[VENUS]

venus in aries- whats an anti vertex?

anita- hi. the story with this friend is very strange actually. its probably too long to type everything, but from the begginning i knew it was fated. we met in the weirdest way actually, and i never bothered to tell him the weird story behind it. to be honest with you, i thought i was feeling romantic feelings but it turned out it was only one way. anyways, the more and more closer we got (platonically) the more i felt like it was a fated contact. some examples are, i felt i could ALWAYS feel what he was feeling (cancer moons conj.), i always felt i was re-living moments with him as if we already had done them, always telepathically attuned (like always calling when i was thinking about calling him etc.) i always used to think he could read my mind or something, because everything he would say i would already have thought about that day(it was kinda weird.) so then, i started thinking a little later that we couldve been twins, because we had too many similarities that i didnt even bother to tell him because he wouldve thought i was nuts, or lying. he is very psychic himself thought too, (pisces rising, cancer moon, grand water trine.) i always feel like hes not telling me alot of stuff, i can literally sense it ( as if i had a twin or some kind of another half.) so i once suggested to him that i thought he was my brother or something like that in a past life, and he seemed surprised that i suggested that. i thought since hes very attuned with his psychic awareness that he could maybe sense the connection in that kind of way but i guess not. the strange thing is, is that he had mentioned once that this whole thing was weird. (our coming together etc.) (thats why i asked in this thread of what kind of past life connection in could be.) i know its very emotional and all that but, this is something that has been bothering me for almost a year now. sometimes i think hes in some kind of denial or something (merc in gemini square pisces asc.?) i am now trying to do these dream exercises that astrologer trish mac gregor mentions in her book "mars and sex, the secrets to sexual astrology" and asking what kind of past life connection we have, but it turns out that i can never remember my dreams. so i dont know....im kind of stuck. Im not sure what is the purpose of our coming together in this life, but maybe it is work-related, because of the industry we are both now in, we could creatively work together. but i just feel there is much more behind it. my gut tells me. :confused:
p.s. another strange thing, is that he has alot of astrological connections with both my parents and my sis. the reason i even bothered looking into this is because whenever i was around him, i would be constantly thinking about my parents. he has alot of mannersims and physical similarities from both of them. weird huh? i also thought that our moons/nodes conjunction in my 9th house (his in his 3rd house) had something to do with our heritage (our roots are both from the same country, and my parents live there.) thats why i thought maybe we were twins... and another thing, my sister and i share the same bday ( shes 9 years younger.) my mom had trouble getting pregnant , thats why my sis was so delayed. but i thought to myself maybe since in a past life i had a twin, and in this lifetime since i didnt have one i still got one on my bday :)

[Betelgeuse]

venus in aries- whats an anti vertex?

Anti-Vertex is the astrological point that always opposites Vertex, they form an axis which they complete eachother and never act as the opposite in a negative way.

Does the anti-vertex have the same energy as the vertex then? My vertex is in the 8th house as well, but my b/f's mercury and neptune conjunct my anti-vertex and my moon conjuncts his anti-vertex so wondering if it's the same energy as the vertex.

I said Vertex represents the point of recepting energies or where does the energy enter. Anti-Vertex represents the emisive energies or where does that energy exit.

If Vertex represents encountering whit other people that will change your perspective in life, then Anti-Vertex represents encountering whit one's self, reminding in certain moments of self without even knowing where they came from, or if did that happen before?. ( Example : " Having strange memories of certain places, objects or circumstances which you fell that you might of experiece before but don't remember where from, like a strange felling that gives the creeps sometimes " ).

Vertex reprezents receptive, indirect, yin energies, similar to the virtual West Point and Descedent. Anti-vertex is emisive, direct, yang energies, similar to the East Point and Ascedent.

To get a better understanding about Vertex - AntiVertex axis, look at most important virtual points considerated by astrologers, the nodes of the Moon. South Node shows past experience, also the karmical energies where they enter, North Node shows the experience we must take, also the karmical energies which they must be concetrated for a evolutionary path.
Maybe we can look more, Lilith- Priapus axis, Lillith shows the virtual point where *misionary energies* enter ( * Negative energies which test us if we chose good or evil according to the circumstance of the individuals life and it's path for a better or worse evolutionary according to our free-will and choices. ). Lillith is subconstient, dark, inner, introspective etc, while Priapus represents where this negative energy is concetrated since Priapus is more material, direct, instinctual. Negative entities does not have always the mission to give us bad influence, they are send whit a purpose to test us, to see if we are likely to choice the good, but usualy we make the bad choices, so our spiritual level drops ( and the bad influeces begins, cause of our bad choice in life ) . Lillith - Priapus are sometimes more disliked than Saturn, Pluto, Mars or anything malefic in nature, because they are the most temptative points in a chart, who beats them can resist anything negative that will get in touch whit thier inner dark side and materialistic instincts, without Lillith and Priapus we cannot evolve, cause without spiritual tests we cannot evolve, they always test our choices ( Good or evil ? ). Ok... back to the analogy of the virtual axis, Lillith represents where those type of energies enter, and where they focus in the material life is where Priapus is located. Now where a type of energy enters in Vertex, Anti-Vertex focus them into one's self. Vertex represents karmical encounters, but we must learn something from them, Anti-Vertex represents ourself, what we learned from Vertex. ( Example : Vertex makes me encouter an important person for me, Anti-Vertex will help me collect that lesson and focus it in myself. It's in 8th house, that person made me change myself, making something better of me, that person made me trust myself, not depend on what Vertex shown in 2nd house, gaining material security and atachment, that person made me learn the important lesson of deatachment and material-spiritual equilibrium. Even if that person was good/bad, made me suffer/happy, the lesson had to be learned for a better self-evolution, considering 8th is the house of transformation, death and rebirth, like the pheonix bird, it dies to rebirth better than the last time ). The example was invented to make you guys understand, cause my grammer is a bit strange and chaotic and need's lot's of repetative explination to get the ideea.

Any virtual point is important cause it's level of action it's very energetic and many ignore their importance.

PS: Venus, that story is great, I really enjoyed reading it. :)

[VENUS]

thanx betelgeuse;)

[VenusInAries]

Wow Betel that was the best explaination I have ever read on anti-vertex thanks :)

[pisceskitty]

Both me, and my son have our Vertex's in taurus in the 8th house. Recently, I have been involved in really intense relationships with men. My last realtionship really had a huge impact on me. I have a feeling there is more to come:(

[VENUS]

pisces kitty,
do u feel as if most of your intimate relationships you have already experienced in a past life? i sense that alot in mine. maybe thats one of the meanings of our 8th house vertex :) maybe your son will experience that too. the more psychicly aware you are, the more you realize.

[VENUS]

this is by celeste teal: (from her site) http://www.moonvalleyastrologer.com/special_points.htm#Vertex

The Vertex, which is the west end of the true east-west axis through the birthplace, is connected with encounters and experiences over which one has little or no control. The Vertex is somewhat comparable to the Descendant. The degree opposite the Vertex is called the Antivertex.

Edward Johndro, who pioneered research to these points, set out to prove the Antivertex to be the most important end of this axis, noting the quality of destiny to these points. Similar to the Ascendant, Johndro called the Antivertex the Electric Ascendant and observed that while the Ascendant shows free choice and volitional life, the Electric Ascendant showed no choice and involuntary actions.

Later, Charles Jane convinced Johndro that it was really the Vertex that produced the best evidence and showed the greater emphasis as a point of fate. Not only encounters with others, but experiential encounters are noted with the Vertex; it shows appointments with destiny.





i found this by an astrologer named lynn koiner:

When there are transits or progressed aspects to the Vertex, the qualities of the Vertex sign will be emphasized. Under favorable aspects, we are drawn by people (indicated by the House position) to express the aptitudes of the Vertex sign. Under afflictions, we seem to have problems with the Vertex sign energy.

Aries: In cultivating Aries energy, you will be drawn into taking charge in emergencies, taking the initiative and developing fast solutions to crises situations. There will be no time to coordinate efforts. Circumstances in the life will force you to pick up the reins of leadership and react to emergencies as a trouble shooter. You will be commanded to be your own person rather than stay on the sidelines, waiting for someone else to do it or ducking out completely.

Taurus: You will be forced to develop a sense of self-worth and material self-sufficiency, not relying upon others for support and not being obligated to others. You may be drawn into helping others achieve financial security or make value judgments for another. Freedom is found through financial independence. Esoterically, it is associated with the ability to let go, to simplify that which is complicated and to extricate by eliminating indebtedness. This can be for self, as well as others. Speak your truth when necessary and honor your own values and principles. Be willing to stand up for what you believe to be true.

Gemini: You will be drawn to teach, to present your own ideas and to back up the information with facts. Gemini will draw you into a relationship or work activity that will demand that you learn to be flexible and to do more than one thing at a time. Flexibility is often connected with allowing others to change their minds, something that Gemini does quite easily.

You may be forced to debate and prove your views or to relay the messages of others correctly. You may be forced to prove your believability, choosing your words correctly and not relying upon generalities. Such an individual may not like the pressure of facts but this will ultimately build confidence in communication skills. You will learn that in theorizing you give your power away, being at the mercy of others who fight with the facts.

Cancer: In this life, you will be pulled into dealing directly with the public, with the media, with the emotions of others—often this starts with the emotional issues in the family, depending upon the Vertex House position. In dealing with the emotional issues in your relationships with others, you will be drawn into soothing troubled water and nurturing others’ needs. You may also be drawn into dealing with issues connected with women in general. Cancer is the sign of the masses, mass trends and Universal Consciousness. This position can provide and opportunity to assess and spot trends on behalf of the public interest.

The natural tendency with the anti-vertex in Capricorn is to appear authoritative and unemotional. Now you are to learn compassion for the feelings of others. In this lifetime, you cannot let others down. You must get emotionally involved and care!

Leo: In this lifetime, you must learn to get personally involved so that you gain recognition for yourself and not share the glory with the group. You are to learn to be creative and to cultivate Self-Expression and Willpower. The tendency is to fade into a group rather than individualize. Individualization is the task at hand. A personal approach to dealing with people is needed rather than a detached and objective orientation.

I have a good friend with the Vertex in Leo. Her natural tendency is to give to the group without individual recognition. I cannot help but feel that there is much frustration when the group and her partner gets the recognition and she does not. Even her writing style tends to be philosophically Aquarian, lacking in a personal revelations. When this point was hit by a transit, she found it impossible to gain the personal recognition. The timing was wrong.

Virgo: In this lifetime, the individual will be drawn to provide a service which brings something to a practical, useful order. Since the anti-vertex is in Pisces, the individual already understands and has experienced confusion but now you must learn to bring order out of chaos. Remember, Virgo rules useful service, not servitude. One client has this Vertex in the 7th and she is an accountant, working on the financial chaos of others.

Libra: In this lifetime, the individual will be drawn into learning how to bridge opposing factions, to mediate compromises, to restore fairness and to bring harmony out of conflicting issues in order to re-establish peace and order. Because the anti-vertex is in Aries, the individual must not allow personal desires to influence the situation. The individual must not take sides or impose the personal ego. The need is to detach the self, make no judgments and establish harmony that would benefit the whole rather than any specific individuals.

Scorpio: In this lifetime, the individual will be drawn into dealing with that which is complicated, matted and ensnared. Plutonian issues connected with the abuses of power can be involved, fighting for the rights involved with exploitation issues. The individual maybe drawn to working with the finances of others, assisting them in achieving security and empowerment. I have one client who was compelled to investigate death/dying issues, learning to transform and heal, learning metaphysics in order to help others.

Since Taurus is the anti-vertex, it is too easy to stay in one’s comfort zone, taking the line of least resistence, not jeopardizing personal security and comfort. You must give strength and courage to the concerns of others, overcoming the fears that make you too comfortable with the status quo.

Sagittarius: In this lifetime, you must go beyond the facts in order to see the Big Picture. You may be drawn to give testimony wherein you must draw conclusions from many facts. The Gemini details may look good for now but they do not serve in the long run. The individual must teach at an expanded or philosophical level based upon the accumulated facts—extracting wisdom from what you know. Go beyond the facts to the truth of the matter. Do not get bogged down with superficial, gossipy information. You will be drawn to deal with philosophical, spiritual or moral issues in connection with the Vertex House position.

Capricorn: The individual will be called to develop skills in responsible leadership. It is essential that you learn to accept duties and obligations for a future control. Leadership and organizational ability go hand-in-hand and you must learn patience to cultivate these skills. Do not allow your emotions and fears to interfere with a realistic attitude in administration. It is essential that the individual not allow the needs of home, family or feelings of insecurity to impede in fulfilling your destiny and thereby rise to a position of respect.

Aquarius: First, you must learn tolerance for the differences in others. This would be particularly true if Saturn and Earth-Water signs are strong in the chart. If Uranus and Fire-Air signs are strong, the individual must learn how to coordinate one’s efforts with other independent, task oriented types. Regulating Uranian people is a hard-learned lesson! Since the anti-Vertex is in Leo, the individual must guard against allowing one’s strong subjective and “MY WAY” opinions to interfere with cooperation. The lesson is to be detached and impersonal.

Any prejudices will come back to haunt you in this lifetime. Learn to be a good friend, to be a part of group effort rather than trying to shine on one’s own. When tolerance is not an issue for the individual, I find that there is some difficulty working with group energy. One client felt that she needed to learn to function and protect herself while working within groups.

Pisces: In this lifetime, the individual is to cultivate sensitivity for the intangibles rather emphasizing the pragmatic, the materialistic and the fine points fo detail. The individual will go through experiences that bring out compassion, the ability to listen with empathy to the concerns of others, and experiences that will make for greater sensitivity to the suffering of others. Another lesson is to let go of criticism. With the anti-Vertex in Virgo, it is easy to zero in on the details, the flaws and imperfections, losing sight of the whole. Learn to go with the flow. Do not judge by rules but rather by instinct and compassion.

[pisceskitty]

pisces kitty,
do u feel as if most of your intimate relationships you have already experienced in a past life? i sense that alot in mine. maybe thats one of the meanings of our 8th house vertex :) maybe your son will experience that too. the more psychicly aware you are, the more you realize.

I know this feeling! It's interesting, because my Son's Ceres in Taurus is conjunct my Vertex. His father[my ex-husband] is a Taurus. There were moments, when I would kiss my ex-husband and it felt like I was kissing my brother! All the men in my life-and there haven't been many-have always had this karmic connection to me. My ex-husbands Saturn is in Pisces[I'm a Pisces]. My relationships with men, always have this fated feeling.

[VENUS]

pisces kitty,
hmmm thats interesting about how u felt like it was a "brotherly" feeling...hence my original post. lol....but i know what you mean...is the planet ceres karmic? i dont know anything about this planet

[pudgyguts]

Dear All,

I have been reading this thread and the other one about past lives with great interest. I too have an 8th house vertex 26 deg cancer, but it is conjunct my south node 25 deg cancer. I am not very familiar with the meanings of these two axes, so what do you think the result of the two overlapping as it were, is?

I do tend to experience very intense relationships, and have often met people who i instantly recognise and just know. it is diffuclt to explain, but a feeling of instant familiarity. The problem is that when this happens, the ending usually isn't too good. nothing horrific, but these friendships/relationships alway seem to go wrong somehow. Is it a karmic thing then do you think, or is it because the vertex axis and the node axis are on top of each other? would be interested to read your thoughts on this

best wishes
pudgyguts

[Betelgeuse]

Pudgyguts,

I understand your concern, South Node and Vertex usualy does meeting persons for the first time, but always thinking of " Have we meet before ? ".

South Node is past lifes/past experiences, while Vertex reprezents circumstances of meeting people. The conjunction between them can make ideal result of meeting persons from past lifes. South Node means also karmical package, karmical ties, a place of great experience in the meaning of finding a solution to old karmical problems. South Node can also be a punishment that forces you to focus all your energy towards the North Node, which is the happiness point whit a great evolutionary path ( meaning that all the bad events are for the purpose of good ). South Node and Vertex conjuncts a fixed star called Procyon. This star can lead to great fortune, but also shows the break-ups or limitations in your relationships. The problem is that bieng too hasty, jelous, possesive and too fast atached can lead to instability and then result of many disapoitments that are beyond control and solution. The ideea is to find stability and structure, in other words you need lot's patience in a relationship of any kind. ( North Node in Capricorn ). These conjunction bieng in Cancer could mean meeting again past persons that you were emotionaly atached or famaly members that you had karmical unfinished business.

[pudgyguts]

Thankyou Betelgeuse - i get it now!

[DevilshAngel]

Dear All,

I have been reading this thread and the other one about past lives with great interest. I too have an 8th house vertex 26 deg cancer, but it is conjunct my south node 25 deg cancer. I am not very familiar with the meanings of these two axes, so what do you think the result of the two overlapping as it were, is?


Wow, my vertex is in the same position by one degree off 25 :w00t:

[Claire19]

hello,
i have a close friend of the opp sex whose sun is conjunct my vertex, and falls in my 8th house. (we also have other karmic connections in our synastry)When i first met this person, i automatically knew we had met in a past life. i might even be convinced now that we mightve been twins, or something close like that. ( especially since hes a gemini maybe?) ( our moons and nodes are also conjunct.) whats weird is that he has alot of conjunctions with my family members as well ( alot.) So my question is, how could we have been connected in a past life (considering the conjunction in 8th house, because i dont think its sexual, i know it doesnt have to be sexual of course because i know 8th house is karmic)
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h40/pinkpoodle26/xxxx.gif
I am not sure that the 8th house is karmic as such.. People say soulmates and that may be true.......However from what you describe there are certainly past life connections. Moon and the Nodes is classic for family connections that are not necessarily sexual.
I have a similar scenario with a guy I met on holiday and we both felt it almost instantly and very strongly. Strong Gemini as well. His 5 planets in my 4th house etc. Felt like an older brother or family member and he was very protective.. We were instant friends but his wife was not happy about it, naturally......He lives in a different state and we were never to meet again. Very sad for both of us. I still think of him 2 years down the track and I know he thinks about me. He is an honourable man that doesnt want to rock his domestic boat and so he doesnt contact me.

[Claire19]

Wow, my vertex is in the same position by one degree off 25 :w00t:
You have your Vertex opposing your North Node.....I am not sure of any effects there. A transit hitting that area may enlighten you.....

[Claire19]

pisces kitty,
hmmm thats interesting about how u felt like it was a "brotherly" feeling...hence my original post. lol....but i know what you mean...is the planet ceres karmic? i dont know anything about this planet
Ceres may or may not be a planet???? . I think it is connected to Virgo in some way and may be proper ruler.... I know that Mercury is not really.
It has to do with harvest and grain... Our daily bread and cereal comes from that word. All connected to our 6th house of daily needs and rituals. This is also the house of aunts and uncles and perhaps it has that kind of feel.

I am investigating it too and maybe in the years to come we will have a clearer idea. There are articles on it, via the net...

[dr. farr]

[QUOTE=Claire19;261793]Ceres may or may not be a planet???? . I think it is connected to Virgo in some way and may be proper ruler....


According to Manilius ("Astronomica", 14 AD, the earliest extant text we have on astrology) the Greeks and Romans regarded Ceres as the divine guardian of the sign Virgo...

[Realization]

very interesting thread. i'm learning so much more about the vertex and anti-vertex. thanks.