When did you get into astrology?

[spock]

A few months ago Phil started a thread titled "Why did you get into astrology?" I've read some interesting responses but think it would be more revealing if we told not only why but when and posted either our birthdata or chart so we can see what was going on astrologically. (I have some thoughts about that but am going keep mum for awhile so as not to "lead the witness"). You might have several dates or time periods. For instance, I first became aware of astrology probably in September -- it was near the beginning of the school year -- of 1963, my senior year in highschool. It was in psychology class. Early on our textbook took a swipe at "the pseudoscience of astrology" and related superstitions. Our teacher, wanting to hammer home the point, brought to class the next day an astrology magazine and read to us sun-sign descriptions so we could see how silly it all was. I was hooked almost instantly. How chagrined that teacher would have been had he known that he was the one who turned me on to astrology!

After that I regularly read the monthly magazines, Dell Horoscope and American Astrology mostly, and even figured out my planetary positions pretty closely by extrapolating from published charts from reader help columns with the help of a booklet called Planets' Places, which gave the dates planets entered and left signs over a period of several decades. But life intervened. In 1967-68 I got married, moved to Portland, Oregon, started a family, started a career, and astrology sort of faded away. But in October 1971 a couple were at our house in response to my wife's ad for babysitting, one of them mentioned an interest in astrology, and I dug out Grant Lewi's Heaven Knows What which I'd hardly looked at for several years. Over the next few months, growing uneasy over the state of my marriage (e.g. caught her cheating), I began to learn astrology, thanks to ephemerides and texts bought at a metaphysical bookstore my counterculture friends turned me on to. Then in early February my wife left while I was at work, taking our two small daughters, that Friday I went looking for them, walking all night, returned home the next morning with blood in my shoes and in a deep depression, tried ineptly to kill myself, then dove wholeheartedly into the serious study of astrology, where I have been ever since.

In the thread mentioned above a number of respondents indicated they were skeptical of astrology at first, investigated it to disprove it, and were surprised to find they couldn't. That's a common trope in how-I-got-into-astrology stories but it wasn't my experience. I had no doubts about astrology once I discovered it (I was also into handwriting analysis and a bunch of other stuff) and accepted as true everything I read in astro magazines. Only after I got Really Serious about astrology in early 1972 did I begin to approach it more critically and ask hard questions, aided and abetted by Lewi's other astrology book, Astrology for the Millions, which I discovered around March or April 1972. Conceptually, as a researcher/theorist, that was my jumping off point.

And that's my story. What's yours?

p.s. I was born at home, not a hospital but Astrodienst doesn't let you hand enter the coordinates, so I had to use the nearest town. I was actually born on the Kentucky side of the Ohio River, at 88W06, 37N41. The difference is too small to meaningfully affect the chart.

[dr. farr]

It was in 1962, when in the 8th grade. I had been previously attracted to esoteric matters*, and kept reading references about astrology, so I looked around (Los Angeles area) and found a now rare book on astrology by Manly P. Hall (of the Philosophical Research Society here in Los Angeles) This I followed up over the next year with several books by Charles Carter, a couple by Grant Lewi, one by Sepharial, then the "New Waite's Compendium", another book by Hall ("Astrological Keywords"),and then got hold of Devore's "Encyclopedia of Astrology".

By 1963 I had heard of William Lilly, but none of his books were still around (in easily accessible stores) So every Saturday morning I would take the bus up to UCLA, where they had a copy of his 3 volume "Christian Astrology". As a 13 year old trying to understand that book, in Old English, well, it proved too much for me, and I abandoned horary astrology, and the "old time" astrology connected with Lilly, and just stuck to "Modern" astrology, until in the 1970's I came into contact with an old gentleman from Turkey, who gave classes at a place called Aleph Books, in Glendale (not far from Los Angeles), whom we students referred to as "Pasha"; here I learned of what I call the "Ankara" tradition, which is more correctly the Ottoman astrology tradition, dating from the 11/12th century-this knowledge led me to adopt an eclectic outlook in astrology, as indeed I had earlier adopted relative to esoteric studies in general.

I used the Placidus house system format exclusively, largely because until the 1990's that is about all you good use with the available tables of houses, and we drew it all up by hand-personal computers really did not start coming into general use until the 90's.

In 1998 I became aware of the original whole sign house format, it appealed to me, and I have used it exclusively for all astrological delineations, ever since.

That is my story of when, and how, I got started...


(*Funny thing: I was rather a "child prodigy" in ASTRONOMY! As a small child (4, 5, 6 years old) I was fascinated with the astronomy books; high school neighbor teenagers would come over, when I was 6 and 7 years old, and I would guide them in their high school science papers relative to astronomy, the planets and stars, etc; actually I was a completely scientific kid, interested in science, chemistry, aeronautics, with no inkling of esoteric, much less astrological, concepts. It was rather suddenly, around 12 years of age, that I discovered esoteric concepts, and, to me, these began to supply what had been missing, or unaddressed, in my prior scientific readings, ie, what all the facts presented by science, MEANT, and particularly, what they MEANT for humans)

[astrologer50]

When T Jupiter went through my 9th house....

[spock]

It was in 1962, when in the 8th grade....
Was the 8th grade 1961-62 or 1962-63? Can you be more specific, such as "right after Christmas" or "near the end (or beginning) of the school year" or "late winter" even if you can't specify a day, week, or month? Would you be willing to share your birthdata so this can be data and not just an interesting story?

By 1963 I had heard of William Lilly, but none of his books were still around (in easily accessible stores) So every Saturday morning I would take the bus up to UCLA, where they had a copy of his 3 volume "Christian Astrology". As a 13 year old trying to understand that book, in Old English, well, it proved too much for me, and I abandoned horary astrology, and the "old time" astrology connected with Lilly, and just stuck to "Modern" astrology
Old English?? I'm impressed that you made the effort, but again, would it be possible to be a little more specific? Was this "every Saturday morning" (in 1963, I assume) a several months long affair? If so can you say about when it began and about when it ended?

until in the 1970's I came into contact with an old gentleman from Turkey, who gave classes at a place called Aleph Books, in Glendale (not far from Los Angeles), whom we students referred to as "Pasha"; here I learned of what I call the "Ankara" tradition, which is more correctly the Ottoman astrology tradition, dating from the 11/12th century-this knowledge led me to adopt an eclectic outlook in astrology, as indeed I had earlier adopted relative to esoteric studies in general.
No particular year? How about early 1970's, middle 1970's or late 1970's? This seems too significant to be relegated to "the 1970's."

I used the Placidus house system format exclusively, largely because until the 1990's that is about all you good use with the available tables of houses, and we drew it all up by hand-personal computers really did not start coming into general use until the 90's.
I assume you knew that all you needed to set up an Equal House chart was the ASC, which suggests you preferred Placidus, at least over the Equal House system. Was that the case?

In 1998 I became aware of the original whole sign house format, it appealed to me, and I have used it exclusively for all astrological delineations, ever since.
Evidently an important turning point. Are you not able to be more specific about it than "In 1998?"

That is my story of when, and how, I got started...
Certainly an interesting one. I hope you'll be willing to make it more useful as data.

It was rather suddenly, around 12 years of age, that I discovered esoteric concepts, and, to me, these began to supply what had been missing, or unaddressed, in my prior scientific readings, ie, what all the facts presented by science, MEANT, and particularly, what they MEANT for humans)
Verrry interesting. Do you recall if it was before or after your 12th birthday, closer to your 12th or closer to your 13th? Was it a several months long awakening (approximately from when to when?) or did it emerge relatively suddenly within a one or two week period? Thanks in advance for any details you're willing to share.

[spock]

When T Jupiter went through my 9th house....
When was that in calendrical terms? Can you post your chart or data? Thanks.

[tee_jay66]

I got into astrology when I was 28 years old

I started with astronomy when I was 14 yrs old, tarot at 15, then sunsigns in my early twenties.but nothing apparent till I was 28,.

My birth data is 9th august 1966, 6.00pm, shrewsbury, Great britain

[spock]

I got into astrology when I was 28 years old

I started with astronomy when I was 14 yrs old, tarot at 15, then sunsigns in my early twenties.but nothing apparent till I was 28,.

My birth data is 9th august 1966, 6.00pm, shrewsbury, Great britain
Thanks, Teejay. So you were aware of astrology and perhaps casually interested from your early twenties? What was involved with your "getting into" astrology? Did something pique your interest, did someone give you a book, did you get a reading (if so, why?), or . . . ? Was it closer to your 28th or 29th birthday? Was it a relatively sudden turning point or event, or was it an "event" or development that occurred over a period of several months? Thanks for sharing.

[tee_jay66]

Thanks, Teejay. So you were aware of astrology and perhaps casually interested from your early twenties? What was involved with your "getting into" astrology? Did something pique your interest, did someone give you a book, did you get a reading (if so, why?), or . . . ? Was it closer to your 28th or 29th birthday? Was it a relatively sudden turning point or event, or was it an "event" or development that occurred over a period of several months? Thanks for sharing.

Hi Spock
yes I was aware of sunsigns and compatibility from about 20 years old, but only read about sunsigns.

I had moe of an interests in the planets and was fascinated with astronomy, this love of the planets led to psychological look....which led to astrology.

Then i started looking at moon signs etc, and it was a gradual build up. I started drawing my own charts from 32 years old because they were not available on a computer.or I didnt know they were..

My mum had books on sunsigns and bought me an astrology book when I was 28...so it was on 09/08/1993 when I first realized this would be a real interest.

I did end up lost and confused for some years and became a born again christian, who condemn astrology, they made me burn all my books.

I took up the hobby again properly when I was 42 once I got over the worry of going to hell ha ha
Now it is a full time hobby

I guess you say it has been gradual and something I kept going back to

It has been serious in the last 3 years.

[dr. farr]

Was the 8th grade 1961-62 or 1962-63? Can you be more specific, such as "right after Christmas" or "near the end (or beginning) of the school year" or "late winter" even if you can't specify a day, week, or month? Would you be willing to share your birthdata so this can be data and not just an interesting story?


Old English?? I'm impressed that you made the effort, but again, would it be possible to be a little more specific? Was this "every Saturday morning" (in 1963, I assume) a several months long affair? If so can you say about when it began and about when it ended?


No particular year? How about early 1970's, middle 1970's or late 1970's? This seems too significant to be relegated to "the 1970's."


I assume you knew that all you needed to set up an Equal House chart was the ASC, which suggests you preferred Placidus, at least over the Equal House system. Was that the case?


Evidently an important turning point. Are you not able to be more specific about it than "In 1998?"


Certainly an interesting one. I hope you'll be willing to make it more useful as data.


Verrry interesting. Do you recall if it was before or after your 12th birthday, closer to your 12th or closer to your 13th? Was it a several months long awakening (approximately from when to when?) or did it emerge relatively suddenly within a one or two week period? Thanks in advance for any details you're willing to share.

Hi!
Been thinking about the above the past couple of days-bringing up the old time past!-and have a bit more exactitude re to some of your questions:

+I have PM'd you my birth data

+the first question, my beginning with esoteric and astrological interests, was in the 6th grade (not 8th grade), and it was just prior to my 12th birthday (which was May of 1962), probably around March or April of 1962, although it might have been as early as February of that year.

+your next question, about when I went up to UCLA library to read Lilly: this was on Saturdays, beginning in September of 1963, and went on for about 10 weeks, usually once a week, sometimes once every couple of weeks; I filled 3 notebooks with Lilly material; it was in late November of 1963 that I abandoned Lilly and any thought of horary astrology, and I threw away my notebooks at that time: so this effort began in early September, 1963 and ended in late November, 1963

+your next question, about my study of old time astrology, and of the "Ankara" (Ottomon) horary method with "Pasha": I remember this quite well, and have notebooks from the class with dates: it started in April, 1973, and went on and off through early 1976; the classes were usually 3 hours long, they were in the evening, and often on Fridays, sometimes Saturdays, and we had a few on Thursdays, over that 3 year period of time
(more to follow)

[spock]

Hi Spock
yes I was aware of sunsigns and compatibility from about 20 years old, but only read about sunsigns.

I had moe of an interests in the planets and was fascinated with astronomy, this love of the planets led to psychological look....which led to astrology.

Then i started looking at moon signs etc, and it was a gradual build up. I started drawing my own charts from 32 years old because they were not available on a computer.or I didnt know they were..

My mum had books on sunsigns and bought me an astrology book when I was 28...so it was on 09/08/1993 when I first realized this would be a real interest.

I did end up lost and confused for some years and became a born again christian, who condemn astrology, they made me burn all my books.

I took up the hobby again properly when I was 42 once I got over the worry of going to hell ha ha
Now it is a full time hobby

I guess you say it has been gradual and something I kept going back to

It has been serious in the last 3 years.
I can see hints of Uranian (20, 42) and a Saturn (14/15, 28) rhythms, but am confused by your "so it was on [9 Aug. 1993] when I first realized . . ." On that date you would have turned 27. Did you mean 1994, or was it your 27th birthday when you received that book? I'll have more to say once that's clarified.

spock

[spock]

Hi!
Been thinking about the above the past couple of days-bringing up the old time past!-and have a bit more exactitude re to some of your questions:

+I have PM'd you my birth data

+the first question, my beginning with esoteric and astrological interests, was in the 6th grade (not 8th grade), and it was just prior to my 12th birthday (which was May of 1962), probably around March or April of 1962, although it might have been as early as February of that year.

+your next question, about when I went up to UCLA library to read Lilly: this was on Saturdays, beginning in September of 1963, and went on for about 10 weeks, usually once a week, sometimes once every couple of weeks; I filled 3 notebooks with Lilly material; it was in late November of 1963 that I abandoned Lilly and any thought of horary astrology, and I threw away my notebooks at that time: so this effort began in early September, 1963 and ended in late November, 1963

+your next question, about my study of old time astrology, and of the "Ankara" (Ottomon) horary method with "Pasha": I remember this quite well, and have notebooks from the class with dates: it started in April, 1973, and went on and off through early 1976; the classes were usually 3 hours long, they were in the evening, and often on Fridays, sometimes Saturdays, and we had a few on Thursdays, over that 3 year period of time
(more to follow)
Thanks, dr. farr. I appreciate the trouble you went to in order to flesh out your earlier account. Research, however desultory, is rewarding but not easy, and it's always gratifying when colleagues are willing to share personal info without knowing how or how effectively it will be used. The additional detail is very helpful, and I'll follow-up with some comments after your "more to follow," which I await with bated breath.

spock

[tee_jay66]

I can see hints of Uranian (20, 42) and a Saturn (14/15, 28) rhythms, but am confused by your "so it was on [9 Aug. 1993] when I first realized . . ." On that date you would have turned 27. Did you mean 1994, or was it your 27th birthday when you received that book? I'll have more to say once that's clarified.

spock

I think its true about the uranian factor at 20 and 42 as I went through two huge life changes then when I completely turned the tables around on my life.

saturn at 14/15 was a very dark and tortured time for me....not sure about 28.

yes I got the date wrong. it was 09/08/1994 when I turned 28?

Im looking forward to what you find?

[dr. farr]

Continuing:

+your next question was about my long time use of Placidus over other house formats (until I switched to whole sign in 1998/99): yes, I was aware of Equal house, but in comparing results in delineation I really did not see much difference between Equal house and Placidus; since everything was Placidus in those days in the Los Angeles area (only Placidus tables of houses were generally available), I continued to use Placidus, with generally satisfactory results. In those days Koch was mostly a European method, Porphyry, Campanus, were regarded mostly as historical curiosities; Alchabitius was mostly unknown (and also connected with "ancient" methods); Regiomontanus was considered the province of specialist professional astrologers (mostly if not entirely connected with horary), so I had little exposure to these other (quadrant) house systems, and, like I said, Placidus was "everywhere".

But I was always bothered about one thing in particular with Placidus-MY OWN NATAL CHART! Placement of certain planets in certain Placidus houses just did NOT match (what I believed to be) my character or my actual life experiences! So, for this and several other reasons (such as the issue of interception), while I used Placidus with generally good results, and did not see any difference between indications in Placidus and those in Equal house, I harbored some doubts about Placidus, although-with no better house system format known to me during those times-I continued to use Placidus, and would still be doing so today, if whole sign had not been rediscovered...

Your next question was about my "turning point"-relative to house system formats.
In 1998, I remember it was in the autumn of that year, I began reading some translations from Project Hindsight, in which-for the first time for me at least-I learned that there was once a universal system of house formatting which had been lost (both in the West and also in India) around the 8th century, called the "sign=house" format, also referred to as "whole sign". I tested this extremely simple-to-erect house format on my own natal chart. I was stunned that it rendered a PERFECT picture of what I considered to be my character and my life experiences-its was shockingly accurate, which Placidus, and even checking my natal in Equal house, was not! This encouraged me, through the rest of 1998 and into 1999, to start using whole sign more and more, and (in my mind at least) I felt I was obtaining clearer, more specific and sometimes more accurate results, from whole sign than from Placidus.
With Robert Hand's articles in the "Mountain Astrologer" (Summer and Fall, 1999) providing more historical (and theoretical and practical) information, I completely switched to whole sign (final conversion to exclusive use of whole sign around late 1999) and have remained an enthusiatic advocate of this house system format ever since.

Your final question was about when I began to become interested in more esoteric matters, changing outlook from my previous "science" oriented interests of earlier childhood. This change in outlook occured rather suddenly: over a period of a few months, coincident with my beginning interest in astrology (supplanting my earlier interest in and study of astronomy), ie, this change began around the time of my 12th birthday in 1962, beginning to sweep in possible as early as February, 1962, and certainly becoming firmly established by the April/May time of 1962, at my 12th birthday.

[thespian]

I got hooked on Astrology when I was fifteen,I read an article about Astrology in some magazine and during the next years I became more and more intrigued by the whole amazing world of it.I bought every kind of book in Greek about it,my favorite ones were the Astro-Analysis series of pocket books.For me the real star science is Astrology because it means''I talk about the stars''in Greek and because Astronomy came after Astrology.

Our very own entity is a combination of biology,inheritance,genetics,numerology,psychology ,personal chart,horoscope,quality of upbringing and personal experiences and influences.All of the above go hand in hand together like an unbreakable chain and my personal experience can vouch for that.

It blows my mind how much Astrology has been dragged through the mud even today by ignorant,blind,narrow-minded people because a bunch of charlatans who call themselves Astrologers feeds them with lies and misinformation and that takes place all over the world!:sad:

[spock]

I got hooked on Astrology when I was fifteen,I read an article about Astrology in some magazine and during the next years I became more and more intrigued by the whole amazing world of it.I bought every kind of book in Greek about it,my favorite ones were the Astro-Analysis series of pocket books.For me the real star science is Astrology because it means''I talk about the stars''in Greek and because Astronomy came after Astrology.

Our very own entity is a combination of biology,inheritance,genetics,numerology,psychology ,personal chart,horoscope,quality of upbringing and personal experiences and influences.All of the above go hand in hand together like an unbreakable chain and my personal experience can vouch for that.

It blows my mind how much Astrology has been dragged through the mud even today by ignorant,blind,narrow-minded people because a bunch of charlatans who call themselves Astrologers feeds them with lies and misinformation and that takes place all over the world!:sad:
So logos means "I talk about"? I assumed something more like "knowledge of". I'm fascinated by the perils of translation. (Sign in Russia: "If this is your first visit to Moscow you are welcome to it.") One of my favorite books is L.S. Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech, which has been more commonly rendered as Thought and Language. In the Collected Works, Vol. 1, which contains it, the editors argue that Thinking and Speech is a more accurate translation (there are words other than the ones Vygotksy used that mean "thought" and "language") and suggest that it also better describes the contents. Vygotsky talks about the relationship of the processes of thinking and speaking (speaking is thinking, or becomes it), not of the abstract categories thought and language.

When you were fifteen? Would you be willing to share your birthdata? Would you be able to specify what year and what month, season or general time of year you read that article? About how long after that was it before you bought your first book? When did you discover the Astro-Analysis series? Did you ever take classes?

I think the general low regard of astrology is due less to charlatanism than to the triumph of the Newtonian world machine and more generally to the triumph of atomism in the mid-seventeenth century. In the view of reality that has been with us since the advent of early modern science astrology just isn't the sort of thing that can be true. Of course it was once assumed that the continents hadn't and couldn't have moved around the globe because how could they plow through solid oceanic rock? Turns out they didn't have to.

[thespian]

I am sorry to say this but I don't remember many details of my very first encounter with Astrology.No,I never took any Astrology classes nor I ever plunged deeply into every single branch and vein of this extraordinary,amazing world,our own world.All my life I have been thrilled and fascinated by the planetary and physical impact of Astrology on human nature.

That alone kept me hooked for decades,desperately trying to explain to people that I'm not some kind of a nutjob or something.But all that was based on a hobby level mentality and nothing more,no further aspirations.I was and probably still am too lazy to deepen my quests for knowledge and discovery.My preoccupation with other things and life in general led me a little far away from this so called hobby of mine but the flame never got put out,it's always there with me.

The Astro-Analysis series of pocket books by Dr Omar Newman was the very first reading material that enhanced and peaked my star interest to the maximum.I was seventeen at the time and really hooked on zodiac signs and what makes them tick.

Again,I am sorry to say this but my personal chart details are unknown to me.I can only say that I was born on Sunday,May 28,1972 in Lamia,Greece,somewhere between 9:30 and 10:00 PM.Judging from my confirmed,ridiculous bad luck and some very quite often strange coincidences I could take a wild guess and say that Saturn and Uranus keep mopping the floor with me for the last 36 years.So,if someone can make head or tales out of my birth date please let me know!:smile:

[spock]

I'm going to comment on the responses so far, but first some background. When I asked the question, When did you get into astrology? I expected Jupiter transits, particularly Jupiter conjunct, square or opposite either the Nonagesimal (Ng) or its own place, would be involved. That expectation is derived from studying biographies in which a common theme of Jupiter-Ng transits is new hobbies and, more generally, new enthusiasms, including new relationships involving shared interests, and from studying the theories of cognitive developmental psychologists Jean Piaget and L.S. Vygotsky. Since developmental psychology is about what happens at what ages, developmental psychologists have basically been studying age transits and the periods between them. Piaget's theory is comprised of a sequence of stages, each of which is of-a-piece with regards to how the child reasons. With the onset of formal operational reasoning in the months leading up to the twelfth birthday the child is able to reason abstractly, for instance being able to add two to three without having to specify what things are being added. Vygotsky's theory is concerned less with the child's logic than with the psychological experience, especially the motivational underpinnings, of each period. In his schema crisis periods, relatively brief transitions between stages, are also included. One of these is the Crisis at Age 3, which occurs around the time of the third birthday and which can be understood as the emergence of a dimension of development which climaxes just before the twelfth birthday.

Regarding that crisis Vygotsky writes in The Problem of Age that "if the crisis for some reason passes sluggishly and is not clearly expressed, this leads to a serious delay in the development of affective and volitional aspects of the child's personality at a later age." Other materal clarifies that evocative statement. Prior to the crisis, that is from birth to age 3, the child's wants arise in the immediate environment. She encounters a ball she drops or rolls it. An object with an interesting texture is handled and felt. A door is opened and closed. A bright light or interesting noise becomes an object of fascination. At this point perception and volition are one. Each stimulus directly evokes a response. This changes as she nears her third birthday. At this time she develops the ability to pursue activities, not just acts, an activity being a series of acts that together comprise a whole, such as going to the playground to play, going to the store with mommy and daddy, or taking my baby to see the doctor. The child is now able to hold in mind the desire to pursue a given activity. This is the emergence of volition, or will, the ability to stick to a desire in the face or distractions or resistance. In the months leading up to the twelfth birthday this dimension of development reaches fruition with the full flowering of the imagination and the ability to think about what one would like to do regularly.

Hence it makes perfect sense that your interest in astrology, Dr. Farr, and the more general esoteric orientation of which it was a part emerged during your first Jupiter Return. I would have expected subsequent variations in that interest, or developments relevant to it, to have ocurred during subsequent Jupiter-Ng or Jupiter age transits, and that may have occurred in at least once instance. Your discovery of whole sign houses finds Jupiter near the Desc, or closing square the Ng from my perspective. (I used whole sign houses for awhile, by the way, having discovered them by accident in Grant Lewi's Astrology for the Millions when I broke a code which substituted numbers and letters for planets and positions in a table of the chart factors of self-destructive people. I later read a piece by Don Jacobs, aka Moby Dick asserting that for Ptolemy houses were a re-ordering of signs beginning with the one containing the Asc.) The other two developments you mentioned don't show Jupiter involvement (unless there was a precursor to your study of Lilly around March 1963). Your study of Lilly coincided instead with Saturn closing square natal Mercury. That rhythm seems to coincide with periods during which doubts about our existing beliefs open the way to new insights. It's not prominent for most people but seems to stand out in the lives of people who are research oriented and relatively tolerant of doubt. I notice that this period closed when Mars was opposing the Ng, which coincides with specific decisions or commitments that make sense in light of a "higher" transition and that at the same time are a more immediate manifestation of it. (I see "events" as multi-level developments.) Jupiter involvement is also lacking in your study of the "Ankara" (Ottomon) horary method with "Pasha" from April 1973 to early 1976, which given the transit of Saturn opening square its natal place and (then) conjunct the Ng has more of the appearance of a career move.

Teejay, your taking up astronomy at 14 and tarot at 15 could be Jupiter conjoining the Ng and later squaring its own place, depending on the specific timing of each (albeit there are complications I'll cover below). That's also when Saturn's opposing its natal place, which has less to do with astronomy and tarot than with developing a sense of who you are, which at this age might mean not wanting to be like the parent of the same sex. Likewise, drawing your own charts "from 32 years old" could be Jupiter opposing the Ng, again depending on the specific timing. The gradual and nonspecific nature of your developing interest in your early twenties doesn't suggest Jupiter involvement, at least nothing that can be pointed to, but the ages 20 and 42 fall at Uranian times and intervals and I can say something about that. Each is a several years long transition (roughly 18-22 and 38-43) during which our ideas about reality and right and wrong undergo a subtle but powerful transformation. We often behave badly during the first one because we're testing the rules, trying to find our own way. There is a tendency, which is more noticeable during the second period, or perhaps just more suprising, to kick over the traces, to do the unthinkable because it's unthinkable, to break away from the past. Religious conflicts can be acute. Your reference to "once I got over the worry of going to hell" suggests the resolution of your religious hangups during your midlife transition, enabling you to dive into astrology whole-heartedly as (probably) Jupiter opposed its natal place. If you don't mind me asking, when did you become a born-again Christian? I was going to add some caveats. Maybe later.

[dr. farr]

Very interesting analysis, and thank you for the work you put into it!

[spock]

I am sorry to say this but I don't remember many details of my very first encounter with Astrology. No,I never took any Astrology classes nor I ever plunged deeply into every single branch and vein of this extraordinary,amazing world,our own world. All my life I have been thrilled and fascinated by the planetary and physical impact of Astrology on human nature.
Okay, you said in your earlier post that you "got hooked on Astrology when I was fifteen" after reading an article in a magazine. That would be between May 28, 1987 and May 28, 1988. Do you not know if it was summer or fall 1987, winter 1987-88, or spring 1988, no idea what season it was? If you really don't that's okay, but I'd like to be sure you've at least made the effort. The less you can give me the less I can do. Are you at least sure that you were fifteen when you read the article that got you interested?

The Astro-Analysis series of pocket books by Dr Omar Newman was the very first reading material that enhanced and peaked my star interest to the maximum. I was seventeen at the time and really hooked on zodiac signs and what makes them tick.
This might have coincided with Jupiter opposing its natal place, depending on the time of year. So again, are you sure you were seventeen, and can you recall if it was summer or fall, winter or spring?

Again, I am sorry to say this but my personal chart details are unknown to me. I can only say that I was born on Sunday, May 28, 1972 in Lamia, Greece, somewhere between 9:30 and 10:00 PM. Judging from my confirmed, ridiculous bad luck and some very quite often strange coincidences I could take a wild guess and say that Saturn and Uranus keep mopping the floor with me for the last 36 years. So, if someone can make head or tales out of my birth date please let me know!:smile:
I found two Lamias on the map. One seems to be in the middle of a forest. Perhaps it's an area rather than a city. The other is a city at coordinates 22E26, 38N54. Is that about right? How sure are you of the 9:30 to 10:00 PM time, and how did you come by it? Did your mother say, for instance, You were born between 9:30 and 10:00 in the evening, or what? Is this mean local time or, as I'm assuming, Eastern European Time (two hours ahead of Greenwich)? Apparently there was no daylight savings time until 1975, so at least we don't have to deal with that. Based on the time you gave, if we can be sure it's within that half-hour period, and if it's in the EET (+ 2 hours) time zone, your Asc is between about 1° and 8° Capricorn, which means your Nonagesimal, which I use, is between 1° and 8° Libra. Your profile indicates you're "a struggling stage actor," which is consistent (the actor, not the struggling) with Jupiter conjunct the Asc/square the Ng. When and how did you get into acting? Finally, are you male or female?

[thespian]

Frankly I can't be 100% sure about the ages and the seasons of my very first contact with Astrology.I could be fifteen or sixteen,I first read the Newman books at seventeen or eighteen,I am quite sure I wasn't nineteen.I probably read the article around fifteen or early sixteen,it was a sunny day,that much I can remember.My mother told me repeatedly that I was born the given time,eastern european time.Lamia is situated geographically on the center of Greece.I had my suspicions about Capricorn and Jupiter but not about Libra.I always thought that my ascendant was Aquarius,that would probably explain my interest in Astrology.I started acting in 2003.I am very reckless as a person,careless but not carefree.I am a male.What exactly makes my involvement with acting consistent?If you look at the dates of my posts you will probably comprehend why I sound so impatient.Are you an expert on Numerology as well?If yes you could analyze my numbers as well if that is not too much to ask.This semi-analysis of my data has been fascinating for me,it's been a dream come true for decades now,thank you very,very much!!!And please,continue your questions!:happy:

[spock]

Frankly I can't be 100% sure about the ages and the seasons of my very first contact with Astrology. I could be fifteen or sixteen, I first read the Newman books at seventeen or eighteen, I am quite sure I wasn't nineteen. I probably read the article around fifteen or early sixteen, it was a sunny day, that much I can remember. My mother told me repeatedly that I was born the given time, eastern european time. Lamia is situated geographically on the center of Greece. I had my suspicions about Capricorn and Jupiter but not about Libra. I always thought that my ascendant was Aquarius, that would probably explain my interest in Astrology. I started acting in 2003. I am very reckless as a person, careless but not carefree. I am a male. What exactly makes my involvement with acting consistent? If you look at the dates of my posts you will probably comprehend why I sound so impatient. Are you an expert on Numerology as well? If yes you could analyze my numbers as well if that is not too much to ask. This semi-analysis of my data has been fascinating for me, it's been a dream come true for decades now, thank you very, very much!!! And please, continue your questions!:happy:
I have no more questions. The dates you have given me have been too general and too uncertain to be useful as data. Regarding Jupiter and acting the Gauquelin research found that Jupiter was more often than expected just above the Asc or just to the right of the MC at the birth of successful actors, although I have long suspected that due to an average lateness factor in reporting birthtimes the peaks in the distribution are actually on the angles. (For other reasons I suspect that the Nonagesimal, not the MC is the location of the upper peak.) The implication is that having Jupiter on the Asc means you have traits that are advantageous to have if one happens to be an actor. Those traits, according to the Gauquelins, are extroversion, immodesty, and spontenaity, in general being at ease in a crowd, something of a show-off, able to make a good impression. But I think more specifically, based on Vygotsky, that the Jupiter rhythm is that part of the psyche that enables us to pretend, to have one thing stand for another (e.g. the little boy riding a stick which he pretends is his horse), to play social roles and therefore also roles in the theater. Having Jupiter on the Asc emphasizes this capacity and a tendency to make believe, which is helpful if one is an actor even though it doesn't guarantee success (because it's not the only factor that leads to success in acting). I'm afraid I have no numerological interpretation to offer, and anyway it wouldn't be appropriate in this sub-forum.

[Imitation_Scorpion]

Nervious break down, Jupiter Transiting the 8th house stellium in Pisces Aquarius cusp of, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Jupiter. (As well as the obvious jupiter return at the same time.)

Started with ptolemy's tetrabiblos, Then CArmen AStrologicum, And sue tompkins aspects in astrology. Completely self taught, in under a year can't find any new information nothing i havent read before etc. etc....

"It's said that what used to take a life time to learn, can be taught in a few months with the advent and availability of information on the internet."

[Moog]

Seems to have coincided with my Ascendant progressing to Neptune.

[spock]

Nervious break down, Jupiter Transiting the 8th house stellium in Pisces Aquarius cusp of, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Jupiter. (As well as the obvious jupiter return at the same time.)

Started with ptolemy's tetrabiblos, Then CArmen AStrologicum, And sue tompkins aspects in astrology. Completely self taught, in under a year can't find any new information nothing i havent read before etc. etc....
When did the breakdown occur (in calendar terms)? Does "under a year" refer to the time period immediately following it? Was the breakdown a factor in your taking up astrology? Would you be willing to share your chart and/or birth data?

[spock]

Seems to have coincided with my Ascendant progressing to Neptune.
What time period was that? What got you interested and how did you react? Would you be willing to share your birth data? Thanks.

[Caro]

I would say I have always been into it from a fairly young age.

However a turning point was being given a couple ofs basic astrology books in 2000.
I started to do my own chart in 2001. I had previously had readings in 90's which I was not that impressed with.

Then when I moved cities in 2001 I began to meet through further education people who studied astrology or who were qualified astrologers.
Then is when I realised how vast a subject it was. (I have often thought I would study for a diploma - but Im concerned it might take over my life and I never leave the house!!)

coincided with jupiter and saturn transit to my 8th house(gemini))

(1999 had been a very difficult year with part of 2000 also)

my dob 11.2.67 00.30 am (Im aqua sun) Plympton UK.

[Pallas-trine-Mars]

Basically my parents knew a little bit. They knew which Sun signs they were a detail or two of what some of their Sun sign descriptions are, though they really don't know much or care a lot. They told me what my sign was, Cancer. I looked it up in an encyclopedia and thought 'hmm, I guess that does sound a little bit like me' but didn't know what to do with the information so I didn't really care. It was a few keywords, the water element and ruler was Moon, not much of a stirring or convincing analysis and I still didn't know any of the workings yet. Same for the other signs- dates, Capricorn and Saturn, Scorpio and Pluto.. Not knowing or really caring where that's coming from. This was when I was very young. Sometimes I'd notice that people of certain Sun signs did seem to have a lot of the same personality traits as others that shared that sign, like Libras, Pisceans, some Scorpios and Tauruses, but I still didn't know where to go from there.

Also had a mentor who hated astrology, one of "those people," you know. The skeptics. She was one of the

"I pretend I'm angry at astrology when really I'm just ignorant of how it works, it seems intangible and to be beyond human understanding of how it could possibly be working as professional astrologers claim and an scared that it might have more control of my life and identity then my own choice",

much like your teacher, Spock. So she and her negative vibes pushed me a bit farther still from astrology, but I still knew what I knew and decided to just leave her to whatever she wanted to believe.

It wasn't until Saturn was recently in Cancer that I was utterly convinced. My life sucked horribly as only Saturn can do to someone unprepared for his bullsh*, and this was for YEARS. I couldn't understand it. How is everything suddenly so difficult, why can't I get out of these negative places I'm trapped in. People were no help. I ended up reading newspaper and online astro forecasts (note: I didn't say "horoscope" because that's not what they are) desperate for some advice. I'd sometimes did that but of course I never really cared about them. They give you a bit of advice, you never know on what and it's maybe 50/50 chance they could be right. The ones I was looking at were either AMNewYork or Metro, which I liked because they were free, seemed less biased than paid-for papers, had stories those didn't, a good writing style.. And AOL's horoscope. One or more of those seemed to accurately predict my misery and depression and mentioned Saturn, which I'd never seen before. I was astounded. It turned up later on the b-stard was making a bunch of his evil aspects all over my chart.

So I ended up reading more on astrology and it's working. I ended up teaching myself about it and various techniques. Haven't looked back.

I'm so sorry for that. I meant to make a short and quick post. Oh well lol