Sabians: Part of Destiny

[piercethevale]

...the formula for which is ..M.C. + Sun - Moon


...what my proposed natal chart of Yeshua/Jesus produces is 13* Capricorn 14'...that is the 14th degree of Capricorn....and....

[from Rudhyar's book "An Astrological Mandala"]

"
(CAPRICORN 14): AN ANCIENT BAS-RELIEF CARVED IN GRANITE REMAINS A WITNESS TO A LONG-FORGOTTEN CULTURE.

KEYNOTE: The will to unearth, in our culture as well as in any culture, what has permanent value, and to let go of nonessentials.

At a time when in nearly every land men are questioning and challenging the validity of traditional beliefs and customary attitudes, it becomes necessary to separate permanent values and great principles or symbols from the many individual habits and the socio-political developments which more often than not have perverted or even negated the original ideals of the culture. "

[deleted quote over 100 words against forum rules - Moderator]

...makes sense to me...

[piercethevale]

...my Part of Destiny?...glad you asked...


...it's 16* Scorpio 32' that's the 17th degree of Scorpio...the degree before my Asc.

...[From Rudhyar's book]

" (SCORPIO 17°): A WOMAN, FECUNDATED BY HER OWN SPIRIT, IS "GREAT WITH CHILD."

KEYNOTE: A total reliance upon the dictates of the God-within.

In contrast to the outgoing smile of the girl in the preceding symbol, here we see the result of a deep and complete concentration reaching to the innermost center of the personality where the Living God acts as a fecundating power. This reveals the potency of the inward way, the surrender of the ego to a transcendent Force which can create through the person vivid manifestations of the Will of God.

This second phase of the forty-sixth five-fold sequence brings to us the realization of normally hidden potentialities in the average human being of our day. Faith in the Divine is shown here being concretely justified. The human person becomes a "mother of the Living God." This is THE TRANSPERSONAL WAY of existence. It is the way that leads to creative mutations. "


..and considering my Sun at the 17th of Taurus and my Desc. at the 18th of Taurus...and everything else in my chart that is in the same 'Tenor'...it just so totally makes sense...TOTALLY....

[Ruka_5]

PHASE 213 (SCORPIO 3°): A HOUSE-RAISING PARTY IN A SMALL VILLAGE ENLISTS THE NEIGHBORS' COOPERATION.

KEYNOTE: The feeling of community demonstrated in a basic joint effort.

In rural neighborhoods, especially as the American West was being developed, the building of at least the framework of a house was often a collective, friendly enterprise. Newcomers building their home-to-be found friendly helpers in their neighbors. The sense of togetherness and participation in a common enterprise was developed by such collective work. The home remains "our" home, yet the whole community is involved in its erection and the welcome marking its completion.

At this third stage of the five-fold sequence, feeling becomes activity. The past and its memories are repolarized in terms of the expanded social consciousness. From that activity a new sense of reality will derive. The Keyword is COOPERATION.

[piercethevale]

PHASE 213 (SCORPIO 3°): A HOUSE-RAISING PARTY IN A SMALL VILLAGE ENLISTS THE NEIGHBORS' COOPERATION.

KEYNOTE: The feeling of community demonstrated in a basic joint effort.

In rural neighborhoods, especially as the American West was being developed, the building of at least the framework of a house was often a collective, friendly enterprise. Newcomers building their home-to-be found friendly helpers in their neighbors. The sense of togetherness and participation in a common enterprise was developed by such collective work. The home remains "our" home, yet the whole community is involved in its erection and the welcome marking its completion.

At this third stage of the five-fold sequence, feeling becomes activity. The past and its memories are repolarized in terms of the expanded social consciousness. From that activity a new sense of reality will derive. The Keyword is COOPERATION.

as 'Kramer ' would say...."Gitty Yup"

[Ruka_5]

as 'Kramer ' would say...."Gitty Yup"

Thing is, there's another Arabic Part called the "Part of Fate". I looked that one up and...the two are pretty different from one another even though they're supposed to basically be about the same subject. So now I'm just confused.

PHASE 2 (ARIES 2°): A COMEDIAN REVEALS HUMAN NATURE.

KEYNOTE: The capacity to look objectively at oneself and at others.

While the first phase of the process of emergence is essentially in terms of subjective impulse and the desire to act, the second phase represents the attempt to evolve an objective awareness of existence. Through a sense of contrast, consciousness is gradually being built. It is what Teilhard de Chardin calls "reflective consciousness": the ability to see oneself reflected as in a mirror, and eventually to laugh at the inadequacy of the form one sees; thus "humor," the triumph of objective consciousness over subjective feeling or moods, or involvement in self.

This symbol characterizes the second stage in the first five-fold sequence of phases: the stage of OBJECTIVATION OF CONSCIOUSNESS. This second phase complements and polarizes the first, which stresses the subjective desire to become individually conscious.

[piercethevale]

Thing is, there's another Arabic Part called the "Part of Fate". I looked that one up and...the two are pretty different from one another even though they're supposed to basically be about the same subject. So now I'm just confused.

PHASE 2 (ARIES 2°): A COMEDIAN REVEALS HUMAN NATURE.

KEYNOTE: The capacity to look objectively at oneself and at others.

While the first phase of the process of emergence is essentially in terms of subjective impulse and the desire to act, the second phase represents the attempt to evolve an objective awareness of existence. Through a sense of contrast, consciousness is gradually being built. It is what Teilhard de Chardin calls "reflective consciousness": the ability to see oneself reflected as in a mirror, and eventually to laugh at the inadequacy of the form one sees; thus "humor," the triumph of objective consciousness over subjective feeling or moods, or involvement in self.

This symbol characterizes the second stage in the first five-fold sequence of phases: the stage of OBJECTIVATION OF CONSCIOUSNESS. This second phase complements and polarizes the first, which stresses the subjective desire to become individually conscious.


I believe you are referring to the formula Asc. + Saturn - Sun...that is also Known as The Part of Tragedy/Fatality [and is the only term I use...until any further developments that may refine the interpretation/meaning or re-define it altogether...but I think 'Trag./Fatal.' {or something synonymous or very related} is going to be the overwhelming consensus...] ...see what came of it from the Yeshua chart [28th of Sagittarius it's about becoming a 'Protective Bridge' to the "Other Side'...and from all the Religious/Spirtual studies I've done...that is exactly it!....what Yeshua/Jesus did in fact become...it is the symbolism of His Tragic Fatality...that's the best advice [in fact it's about the only one] I can give...in that it shows the symbolic meaning of the 'Tragedy' of His physical 'Fatality'

[Ruka_5]

I believe you are referring to the formula Asc. + Saturn - Sun...that is also Known as The Part of Tragedy/Fatality [and is the only term I use...until any further developments that may refine the interpretation/meaning or re-define it altogether...but I think 'Trag./Fatal.' {or something synonymous or very related} is going to be the overwhelming consensus...] ...see what came of it from the Yeshua chart [28th of Sagittarius it's about becoming a 'Protective Bridge' to the "Other Side'...and from all the Religious/Spirtual studies I've done...that is exactly it!....what Yeshua/Jesus did in fact become...it is the symbolism of His Tragic Fatality...that's the best advice [in fact it's about the only one] I can give...in that it shows the symbolic meaning of the 'Tragedy' of His physical 'Fatality'


So the Part of Fate one is actually negative - "The Part of Tragedy", and the one you really want to look at to see ultimate fate is the Part of Destiny?

[piercethevale]

So the Part of Fate one is actually negative - "The Part of Tragedy", and the one you really want to look at to see ultimate fate is the Part of Destiny?
Yeah, something like that...I only became aware of the Part of Destiny this year [at least I don't recall having heard of it before...or at the time I heard of it I didn't have much faith in Arabic Parts and probably didn't give it any particular notice...esp haveing the M.C. as the 'Personal Point']

Has any one got a birth chart for John Kennedy?...I bet that chart would show us something between the two diff Parts symbolically!
[Or Martin Luther King...Bobby Kennedy...any politician, spiritual leader, Icon of Ideology...that was murdered/executed...i.e Martyred...]

[Ruka_5]

Yeah, something like that...I only became aware of the Part of Destiny this year [at least I don't recall having heard of it before...or at the time I heard of it I didn't have much faith in Arabic Parts and probably didn't give it any particular notice...esp haveing the M.C. as the 'Personal Point']

Has any one got a birth chart for John Kennedy?...I bet that chart would show us something between the two diff Parts symbolically!
[Or Martin Luther King...Bobby Kennedy...any politician, spiritual leader, Icon of Ideology...that was murdered/executed...i.e Martyred...]

I drew up his chart at Astro.

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5356/astro2gw08martinlutherk.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/astro2gw08martinlutherk.gif/)

[astrologer50]

are you aware of forum rules regarding copyright/plagarism?

Copyright

This forum shall not be a place facilitating copyright infringement, since that obviously goes against our main objective, which is to promote astrology. Indeed, we cannot promote astrology, if we undermine the mechanism intended to ensure that authors publishing on astrology benefit from their hard work, which puts at risk the publications of new books on astrology. Such undermining of the rights of these authors will not be tolerated on the forum, and members are asked to assist the moderators in this by reporting any posts that break this rule.

In order to respect copyright laws, members must not paste in their posts texts copied from other websites or other publications that are over 100 words long each. A maximum of 3 quotes of texts copied from other websites or other publications is accepted per post and each quote must be from a separate website or other publication. Each quote will be indicated in some way, such as placed between quotation marks, between the tags copyrighted text or in some other way indicating that this is copied text. The source should be properly mentioned: book or magazine author and title, name of magazine, ideally also additional publication data. If the text is publicly available online, a link to the source should be given.

Plagiarism, defined as copying one's work and passing it off as one's own, is not accepted. Material in the public domain (that either was never copyrighted, either the copyright has expired) has to be appropriately cited also.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/faq.php

[piercethevale]

are you aware of forum rules regarding copyright/plagarism?

Copyright


http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/faq.php

Thank you for making this an issue...I will be contacting the Rudhyar Archival Project today for authorization to use quotes from Dane's book on the Sabians at my discretion.
ptv

[piercethevale]

Ruka...thanks for the effort but I seriously doubt the veracity of that data...being as the time given is exactly 'Noon'...the birth time and location have to be accurate down to the second...at the very least no more than a minute off either way.
The degree on the Asc. changes every four minutes and when calculating Arabic Parts/Lots the Asc. [or any House Cusp given as the 'Personal Point'] is the 'Primo Facto' of concern as to accuracy seeing as how any Planetary/Luminary factor is not going to vary noticeably by any factor of just minutes alone.

[astrologer50]

Thank you for making this an issue...I will be contacting the Rudhyar Archival Project today for authorization to use quotes from Dane's book on the Sabians at my discretion.
ptv

doesn't really matter IF you get permission, forum rules state 3x 100 words is max and only must not be from same source. :innocent:

[Ruka_5]

Ruka...thanks for the effort but I seriously doubt the veracity of that data...being as the time given is exactly 'Noon'...the birth time and location have to be accurate down to the second...at the very least no more than a minute off either way.
The degree on the Asc. changes every four minutes and when calculating Arabic Parts/Lots the Asc. [or any House Cusp given as the 'Personal Point'] is the 'Primo Facto' of concern as to accuracy seeing as how any Planetary/Luminary factor is not going to vary noticeably by any factor of just minutes alone.


I just pulled it up from the Astrodienst databank. I know noon on the dot seems like an odd birthtime, but to be fair, Astrodienst is known for being more accurate than other sites, and the time does have an A ranking.

[Ruka_5]

doesn't really matter IF you get permission, forum rules state 3x 100 words is max and only must not be from same source. :innocent:

He cites where he gets the quotes from, he doesn't try to pass them off as his own. He also doesn't profit financially in any way from someone else's work. If a mod comes in and edits our posts, fine, they can take care of it but with all due respect, you aren't a mod and you're kind of derailing the thread.

[piercethevale]

One concept of the difference that I can visualize... is, it appears to me [that may still be a bit wanting in the definition dept...but seems pretty much on the mark] ...that the Part of Trag/Fatal. is inter-personal and the Part of Destiny is intra-personal...does that make sense to you?

[Ruka_5]

One concept of the difference that I can visualize... is, it appears to me [that may still be a bit wanting in the definition dept...but seems pretty much on the mark] ...that the Part of Trag/Fatal. is inter-personal and the Part of Destiny is intra-personal...does that make sense to you?

...You might have to explain that one to me like I'm stupid lol.

[piercethevale]

...You might have to explain that one to me like I'm stupid lol.


the Part of Trag./Fatal. is what the significance of life that has been led and what the departing is symbolically to society...where as the Part of Destiny is what your life meant to you...as per your Karma...Dharma...
May life has been about a yogi's path [consciously] from the summer I was about to enter H.S....1968...that turned into a rather earnest/serious quest by 1972...My Part of Destiny being the 17th of Scorpio and literally the next degree/step symbolically in the 'Evolutionary' direction around the Zodiac [of what is known as the Esoteric School of Astrology ...which is reverse from all other schools of Astrology] from my Asc at the 18th degree of Scorpio.
I know this was already presented and discussed but just as a refresher and for anyone reading these posts that haven't been following all the threads.
...by Rudhyar's definition [from His book on the Sabians] my Destiny is: [I]" A total reliance upon the dictates of the God-within.

This reveals the potency of the inward way, the surrender of the ego to a transcendent Force which can create through the person vivid manifestations of the Will of God.

This ... brings to us the realization of normally hidden potentialities in the average human being of our day. Faith in the Divine is shown here being concretely justified. The human person becomes a "mother of the Living God." This is THE TRANSPERSONAL WAY of existence. It is the way that leads to creative mutations."
I came here to serve.

[piercethevale]

...Now, I don't like thinking ahead to my 'Fatality'...but my Part of Trag./Fatal. is the 24th of Aries:
[From Rudhyar's Book] " (ARIES 24°): BLOWN INWARD BY THE WIND, THE CURTAINS OF AN OPEN WINDOW TAKE THE SHAPE OF A CORNUCOPIA.

KEYNOTE: Openness to the influx of spiritual energies.

[and Rudhyar's Keyword{s}} "MOLDED BY TRANSPERSONAL FORCES."

...well, looky there...that word again...."TRANSPERSONAL"...hmmmm, do you think the Cosmos is trying to tell me something...Do ya think?

ps...and this is a good example of what I mean by running into aspects/Parts/symbolism of a similar 'Tenor' in a birth chart...

[Ruka_5]

the Part of Trag./Fatal. is what the significance of life that has been led and what the departing is symbolically to society...where as the Part of Destiny is what your life meant to you...as per your Karma...Dharma...
May life has been about a yogi's path [consciously] from the summer I was about to enter H.S....1968...that turned into a rather earnest/serious quest by 1972...My Part of Destiny being the 17th of Scorpio and literally the next degree/step symbolically in the 'Evolutionary' direction around the Zodiac [of what is known as the Esoteric School of Astrology ...which is reverse from all other schools of Astrology] from my Asc at the 18th degree of Scorpio.
I know this was already presented and discussed but just as a refresher and for anyone reading these posts that haven't been following all the threads.
...by Rudhyar's definition [from His book on the Sabians] my Destiny is: [I]" A total reliance upon the dictates of the God-within.

This reveals the potency of the inward way, the surrender of the ego to a transcendent Force which can create through the person vivid manifestations of the Will of God.

This ... brings to us the realization of normally hidden potentialities in the average human being of our day. Faith in the Divine is shown here being concretely justified. The human person becomes a "mother of the Living God." This is THE TRANSPERSONAL WAY of existence. It is the way that leads to creative mutations."
I came here to serve.

...Now, I don't like thinking ahead to my 'Fatality'...but my Part of Trag./Fatal. is the 24th of Aries:
[From Rudhyar's Book] " (ARIES 24°): BLOWN INWARD BY THE WIND, THE CURTAINS OF AN OPEN WINDOW TAKE THE SHAPE OF A CORNUCOPIA.

KEYNOTE: Openness to the influx of spiritual energies.

[and Rudhyar's Keyword{s}} "MOLDED BY TRANSPERSONAL FORCES."

...well, looky there...that word again...."TRANSPERSONAL"...hmmmm, do you think the Cosmos is trying to tell me something...Do ya think?

ps...and this is a good example of what I mean by running into aspects/Parts/symbolism of a similar 'Tenor' in a birth chart...


Now I'm starting to get an idea what you mean, thanks lol.

[lilithofeden]

http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

This website has a list of all the "parts of" and interestingly enough, the "part of fate (karma)" is the SAME as the "part of tragedy". Interesting

[piercethevale]

http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

This website has a list of all the "parts of" and interestingly enough, the "part of fate (karma)" is the SAME as the "part of tragedy". Interesting

Thanks. if you'll scroll down in this sub-forum you'll find a thread I started recently titled 'Astrological Parts, Known and Unknown...'
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39338
I've been attempting to create the most comprehensive and studied compendium of the Parts/Lots available on the internet...I've utilized every site I know of on the web...I've neglected to check all through the site you give....matter of fact it was the first such site I was aware of, finding it a number of years ago ...[since 2001 or 2002 I think it was]...I have a lot more to list yet...those that are utilizing other than just planets and or Luminaries as factors along with the asc. as the 'personal point'...some astrologers claim that there are just about an unlimited possibility of 'Parts' that can be calculated...the rub is knowing what they represent..as you'll find me rant about at the other thread if you choose to read it.
I appeal for all to get involved in the project and it does need a bit of revival...give it a shot!
Thanks, ptv

PS...btw...if you had read all the above correspondence between myself and our 'Former Member' Ruka [a regrettable tragedy itself for which I am not in any way at fault...but I give as an example of being a neophyte at astrology but also being too intelligent and too intuitive for a lot of the b.s. that some try to pass off as 'astrological knowledge/fact' and standing up to bullying by certain 'established or ensconced members here...I'm not naming names ...just saying take it as a 'heed' {btw...just between you and I...In my opinion Ruka is a savant ...and will be someone that will eventually be well recognized in this science if she continues with the interest}] ...you'll find that the Fate - Tragedy thing is discussed and I give what facts/evidence/case histories I know of and what I've concluded to date.