Suicide and Astrology

[VenusInAries]

I was not sure if this thread has been touched on before so please forgive me if it has.

I am curious has anyone studied the charts of those that have committed suicide. If so I would be curious of the transits they were going through before hand then the transits at the moment they ended their life.

I have not studied it but to me it seems like a heavy Saturn transit yes? But the moment they do it perhaps the transiting moon is jumping in the mix too? Just very curious of what others have noticed or the information they have gathered.

Thanks and happy turkey day :banana: sorry all you turkeys :: pout:: not a good day to be you :: wink::

[deevinegypsy]

wow, heavy topiv for tofu turkey day! (i am a vegetarian so the gobblers are safe LOL). From a healing perspective, and with heavy pluto researcher in my own chart, I'd look to the aspects to the natal saturn and neptune; usually chronically depressed persons have those two planets in the early two houses. Also uranus and mars and pluto aspects to those planets can intensify reactions to an already self destructive person.

I wish to note that those heavy aspects also DO offer the opportunity of rising OUT of that pattern. Often when Pluto transits the moon , and is in strong aspect to t-saturn, depression can seem insurmountable. Keep an eye on the NEPTUNE in the natal. Most negatively expressed, "escape" and often through drug overdose may be seen there. God Bless..and if a depressed person can get to their anger it can help them -as long as they do not take it out on themselves...even BLAME can be a way out of depression; i.e. releasing pent up emotions that have been supressed and stuck. If you know people in this state, encourage their emotional release. Venting, (understatement)...and if by miracle they are able to reach a place of being GRATEFUL ...for nearly anything...this may help them heal tremendously.

also watch out for those who wear victim and self pity as a way to get attention....you might see strong leo or 5th house activities in those charts if someone is constantly threatening suicide but not likely to go through with it. that is a call for help...but can be draining for an inexperienced f riend/counsellor who gets caught up in their drama. (i see a lot of behavior like this in moon-leo people, for instance).

love and light
deevinegypsy

[starlink]

Hi Venus! I know a young man who committed suicide on the day of his first wedding ceremony. I must have the chart somewhere, it was ages ago since his mother asked me to do his and her daughters charts. Very strange charts. The girl had only stress aspects, squares, oppositions, you name it and the brother, only trines and sextiles, nothing else and he is the one that hanged himself. Will see if I can still find that chart. Also, frequently you will find the ruler of the first in the 8th, Saturn in 1 square Sun, heavily afflicted Mercury by Saturn or Uranus. Look for low self esteem (2nd house, 5th house). I suppose Neptune in adverse aspect to Sun, Asc.,Moon and also Moon-Pluto, (conjunctions, squares). But I guess it is always a combination of many factors and sometimes it just happens because of very nasty progressions triggering something. It is an interesting topic and I am sure someone has already written a book about it. Will see if I find something more on the topic.Bye for now! Starlink

[starlink]

Sorry, I meant: wedding anniversary!!

[VenusInAries]

Very interesting both Dee and Star, I would be curious to see his chart Star and the day he did it see his progressions and transits. I can see where the possibility might be in someones chart but very curious about the triggers that happen to actually have someone follow through and do it. So curious to see charts of those who accomplish the suicide.

Seems like drug overdose yes would be some kind of Neptune transit.. not sure about hanging would there be a taurus thing going on in there since it rules the neck? Seems like shooting oneself would be a mars type action, when Kennedy got shot thru the neck he had mars in taurus uranus thing going on there so not sure if uranus and mars would be shooting oneself.

I can see those who feel hopeless, use it to call for help but have no real intention of following through with it. Perhaps they are just needing validation that their presence is needed in the world. But committing suicide goes against the survival instinct we all have so very curious what sort of progressions and transits can actually pull someone strong enough to over-ride that instinct.

And yeah I'm a vegan too .. so be safe little turkeys lol :P

[Yoi]

As someone who tried to committ suicide a couple of times a few years back this is my personal experience.

The years of my most intense depression and attempts coincided with an intense Pluto transit (big surprise). Pluto transited over my Descendant, then my Part of Fortune, then my Sun and then Neptune (they're all lined up in a row in Sagittarius 7th house), which triggered off a pre-existing Moon-Square-Neptune T-square (fun!) (1st house-5th house-7th house - yes I have very bad self-esteem. Did I mention Pluto is in the 5th house as well as Saturn?). Saturn was for a time happily transiting over Chiron in the 12th house.

My chart not only contains lots of squares but if you count the MC as a vertex an air grand-kite and if you count Chiron an earth grand trine which includes the great Venus-Jupiter trine. Well, even if you don't count it, the MC position has often been filled with transiting planets over the last few years. In fact Neptune is on the MC right now. I also have an asteroid Pallas on the MC. All the aspects involved in both of these aspect patterns are quite tight.

There's a tendency I believe to retreat to the trines, . Which is what I did BTW. These are the most comfortable easiest patterns in a chart, especially the grand trines. Things could have gone a lot worse for me. Even in the midst of my depression I managed to graduate with 1st class honours and got a PhD. But it was not just the grand trines (innate talent) but also the fact that the vertexes of the grand trines are irritated by squares and semi-squares. I remember overcoming my depression for periods in bursts of work which I realize now was driven by my many squares and semi-squares. This combined with my natural talents and sheer luck as indicated by the grand trines and even some squares (e.g. Sun square Jupiter) was sufficient. However, if I hadn't had the irritating squares I probably would have relied solely on the trines and basically events would have got worse. Basically the trines allow you to get stuck into patterns which though they work to allieve you temporary do nothing to help the underlying problem.

I think that if you don't have lots of irritating squares on your trines in this situation what happens is the next time something bad happens with transits and progressions because you've retreated to your trines and not done anything things are even worse and if the transits and progressions are just right this may be sufficient to drive you over the edge.

Of course this is just my theory from my own experience. I may not be a great case study though as I didn't end actually succeed in killing myself obviously.

[cossie]

Hi I have not looked at this topic before but I can give you details of someone I know who took his own life if you are interested in taking a look.
He was a friend of mine and he took everyone by surprise by hanging himself at home shortly after leaving a quiet evening out with his friends. The coroners verdict was that he had no alcohol or drugs in his system at the time of death.The whole event took everyone by surprise.
I would be very interested to know what you can glean from his chart. Unfortunately I do not have a time of birth.
Birth date- 31 March 1966
Date of death- 21 October 1999
Time of death-approx 1.30am

[VenusInAries]

Thank you both for sharing. Yoi sorry to hear what you went through but sounds like you foun the strength to get through some tough transits and make something positive. I would have to explore that trine and square theory on those that have attempted and gone through with suicide. I as well attempted on pluto square my moon. lol that pluto can be a biscuit *insert bad word there*

Cossie I am gonna look at his chart and the transits and progressives he die just to see, wish we had his time would like to see what the role the houses played and rulerships. But maybe can at least look at transits.

Didn't think about chiron being a player but seems obvious huh?

[Frisiangal]

Cossie I am gonna look at his chart and the transits and progressives he die just to see, wish we had his time would like to see what the role the houses played and rulerships. But maybe can at least look at transits.

Didn't think about chiron being a player but seems obvious huh?

A number of years ago an internet astrologer mentioned the role of Chiron in suicide, basing his study upon the myth that Chiron chose mortal death above endless immortal pain (spiritual suffering). Chiron lies between Saturn and Uranus; the (in)ability to rise above an old outdated pattern and change one's view of life.

In Cossie's example, her friend was born with a Saturn-Mercury-Chiron in Pisces conjunction square Jupiter in Gemini, both in wide square to the Uranus-Pluto conjunction. On day of decease Moon was transiting Pisces, (having squared transiting Chiron), and transiting Mercury in Scorpio was conjunct R. Neptune, that natally trined the triple conjunction. Emotional transits if one is of 'troubled' mind.

Black Moon Lilith has often shown up when 'one gives up the ghost' to return to non-manifestation. It is remarkable that it was transiting 15+ Sagittarius on 21st October and within orb of the square to the natal UR-Pl conjunction.

Haven't had time to check progressed charts. Anything revealing?

F.

[jagetoile]

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[VenusInAries]

Morning all

Yes I agree that one has to have a predisposition say for depression etc to have the capability to over-ride that survival instinct. I have fought it here and there but don't know what it is maybe the positive mars in sag vibe, but I just tell myself hang in there tomorrows a new day it can only get better. When Pluto was squaring my moon it was very hard to keep my head above water but at the same time chiron was opposing my venus chiron conjunction. Felt like the wound of that was only being opened up wider. Seems viable to have chiron be a player in it too.

The only problem I have with a long transit like Pluto. Which I do agree I think something as powerful as in Pluto as to be a catalyst to over-ride something equally as strong as our need to survive. But Pluto moves so slow, the transits we feel of Pluto linger, build up, weigh us down or torment us for a while. What exactly happens in the sky to trigger a certain moment for a person to decide this is my last day, this is my last breath and over-ride that need we all have to keep living.

So to me it seems like a fast moving transit say the moon must trigger something. That's the only problem and where it leaves me confused about how a choice of such magnitude can be brought on by slow moving transits. Saturn and Pluto example build up. Not everyday of my Pluto square my moon was frought with depression, I had great days in there too. So when, or what is going on for a person to decide at that moment it's over.

To me hanging oneself or shooting onself is a statement of I don't want to be rescued. I am final in this decision this moment is my last on this earth as I am now. So trying to figure out what triggers it. Since the moon rules our emotions I just wondered could it play a role in triggering off bad aspects in a chart, a lingering bad transit, to set off the person to decide that than and there is their last moment.

I love all the feedback. Sorry I am fascinated in things in astrology that seem to go outside the norm in society. I have over a 100 serial killers charts because I just can't fathom the notion of ever taking another humans life and for what seems like no other reason than killing. It baffels me. On the whole I see a great deal of Saturn/Mars/Pluto going on in the natal charts of serial killers with the acception of a few. Richard Ramirez I don't think would have been a serial killer, I think it was the drugs and influence of his uncle speaking of the killings of war and the pictures that influenced his drug induced twisted mind. But for most serial killers they have a strong conflict in their chart with Saturn/Mars/Pluto. With Ted Bundy I noticed a pattern of the transiting moon setting off that pattern in his chart every time he killed.

So I wonder about suicide. It seems to go so against being a human and the will to live. I do very much understand it being attempted as a way to say "hey does anyone care I'm alive in this world" but not really meaning for it to take them away for good. Yet others do it and do it in such a way to say this is final this is my choice and I choose not to live. That boggles my brain. So a long transits of such a powerful planet as Pluto I can see but during that long transit what sets someone off to say this moment this day?

Anyone have any ideas on the moon or other triggers as well?
Thanks, just trying to learn :)

Theresa

[unukalhai]

I have only studied one case of suicide astrologically, in that case, the native decided they had enough during the 3rd (final) hit of a t.Saturn opposition natal Uranus transit. Much to the nature of the transit, the native felt heavy restrictions on her sense of individuality (she was a bit "odd", not that there is anything wrong with that) -- from the limited information her sister told me, she felt that her family would never accept her for who she was, and her unusual ways put pressure on her from multiple avenues. She also felt the inability to succeed professionally, yet her unique artistic talents might have made it for her if she put in the required effort and patience. The transit was within 10arcmin at the time of passing, and little other obvious energy was noted, however I was much less knowledgeable at the time. It certainly looked as though the T.saturn-180-n.Uranus was the main factor.

Such a sad situation. Suicide is one of the more notable examples of why everyone should be aware of the planetary influences present in their lives. I would imagine if she had been aware the pressure on her would pass, and understood its real source, she'd be alive today.

Pluto could also certainly be a factor in suicide, although I have not studied such charts. Being that I have been going through quite the ride with Pluto for almost two years now, I can relate to how someone of weak composition and stability could do such a thing under a difficult Pluto transit. Pluto transits are not only all-to-long, but force one to face such difficult parts of oneself and tend to create extreme inner frustration when one is not able to make the required personal transformations to proceed with the transit. The blockage of Plutonian energies often results in self-harm in some form, although it is not often it goes as far as taking ones own life. But I could certainly understand in an extreme case that it would be a possibility.

[jagetoile]

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[starlink]

Hi Venus! You must also have lots of Scorpio or Pluto in your chart because I have it and I am, just like you, totally fascinated by serial killers etc. I looked at Bundy too (did Numerology on him!). I have a strong detective streak in me and I think that figuring out the "why" and the "how" of things is just very interesting for us to know. By the way, my Venus is also in Aries! Psychologically seen, I can understand why people kill and commit suicide and indeed those slow, painful transits can really make you give up or lash out, all depending of course in what sort of mood you are at that moment and therefore I am absolutely sure that the Moon plays a very important triggering role in such cases (as it does in normal mundane cases as well). I haven't found that chart yet, will keep on digging.

[starlink]

Jagetoile, I read that Frida Khalo died from a lungembolie but that some of her friends thought that it also might have been suicide. It was never really determined what exactly happened because Diego Rivera did not want to have her body examined. It would be interesting to see if we can see what did happen in the end.

[jagetoile]

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[VenusInAries]

Hi all, yes I agree that the knowledge astrology can give us can help us through those difficult times. When you see the patterns and cycles we all as humans go through you can expect it and take it as a learning and growing tool instead of being weighed down by some of the growing pains and the hopeless feelings that can come like it will never change. I'm sure like in your friend that felt she would never be understood or accepted. Perhaps with the knowledge of astrology in her natal chart she could have seen her beauty, her uniqueness, and the areas where she could grow, as well as see that transit would not have been forever.

I am trying very hard not to weigh myself down with transits I see upcoming that are going to be years and years.. Saturn will oppose my moon, when it's 3 virgo.. then at 15 virgo joyously be squaring my mars.. than at 22 virgo conjunct my pluto.. 0 libra conjunct my uranus in the 12th house.. then 11 libra oppose my venus/chiron conjunction then 22 libra going over my rising.. I just say to myself ..whewwww...okay this is gonna be a bumpy ride.. I know where my weakness's are..I know where it's gonna really get rough for me.. during those times I just gotta hang on and hang in there..it will pass.. and do my best to grow..I think in terms like these Astrology is wonderful and insightful tool to help us all when we go through the growing pains of life.

Would be good I think to recognize those indications in a chart that might make one a little weaker in their ability to hang tough, if you see in a friends chart they are gonna go thru something rough talk to them about it, prepare them, let them know it won't always be..if you see it in your own chart.. prepare..make up back up plans and hang tough through the storm.. So for me I am really wanting to understand the triggers for something like that. We all go throwing painful events in ourlives.. and yes those who suffer from depression maybe be weaker at handling it although my experience has been they usually are much tougher than given credit for because of what they suffer through.. usually it's those not use to swallowing back alot of pain and finding the courage to get through the next day, when they hit a bad patch in life they have hard time with it. So not sure if it's fair to say only those prone to depression are capable of over-riding the survival instinct.

When I was taking astrology classes I came up with a saying that I said I was gonna make a t-shirt lol and like so many piscean energies never followed through..but I'll share the saying.. "Life is just a bowl of transits" and that's all it is really, you gotta learn and grow and do your best.

And yes Star I guess you could say I got some Scorpio in me. My progressed Rising is Scorpio. My Mars is square Pluto, My sun is cusp of 7th and 8th house, I would say my Taurus sun operates very close to a scorpio sun and my sun is trine Pluto.. but my insatiable curiousity for being a detective as well and trying to figure things out especially on the more morbid side would probably be my Mercury in Gemini in the 8th house...

I hope everyone has had a great Holiday.. I do appreciate that input..in trying to understand something of this.. so we can all learn a little.. grow a little.. maybe even be a help to those that need it or to ourselves :)

[unukalhai]

A few thoughts on your Saturn transits, possibly more optimistic than I should be, but still rooted in logic. :)

When Saturn in Virgo opposes your Moon, you might be able to cut through some of the emotional fog of your Piscean moon, yet at the same time you might face emotional issues that show you emotions aren't so intangible as a Piscean moon would like them to be! Moon/Saturn, although quite different, do have a "less-than-sinister" relationship. Remember these two objects naturally oppose in the zodiac, as the rulers of the MC/IC axis. Even the zodiac itself shows their cooperation, and Saturn does a wonderful job in firming up the fickle Moon's nature and keeping her grounded in reality. I wouldn't worry yourself too much with the transit. :)

Saturn square Mars will be highly dependent on how you have integrated the Martian principle in your personality. I went through this transit back in 2001, yet the upper square to Mars is also a t-square my nodes and an opposition to my Sun, so it's hard to get a clear picture of what was actually a part of the Saturn/Mars square and what came from the other two aspects, both far more powerful. For me, part of it was a time of wreckless martian fun. Unlike my usual self, I spent that time partying, not giving a ****, and doing what I felt like. Saturn set me up with a short-term high-paying job in the months before, then made sure I was jobless for a good 9 months, and I blew every last cent of the savings! It was fun, but not like me. Obviously, it was a needed lesson, yet it did take a good year or two to relearn how to be responsible. See, I've never been the loose type, with Saturn as chart ruler and Virgo as strongest sign, the conflict of the square had the purpose of trying to break my out of rigidity. After the transit was over, a Mercury/Venus conjunction during a Mercury RX cycle happened close to my midheaven, which coincided with accepting a job offer resulting in a paycheck coming just a few days before rent was due, which I wouldn't have been able to pay otherwise. The period of this triple-hitter transit was by far the most daring period in my adult life yet, and I would imagine it would have been downright dangerous if my nature was other than that of reserve and caution. Regardless, Saturn/Mars are very different objects, and do tend to be a very conflict oriented pair. It is seldom these two can butt heads in a stress transit without something unusual happening -- They are just naturally at odds! You would probably be wise to cast a chart for the exact hit (or all three hits, if saturn RX's over the 90 degree point) and see what other interaction happens. Don't forget to check the transiting sky conditions, as well as all the other transits which will occur along with the Saturn/Mars square(s). This will give you a more complete picture of the energy of the transit. I tend to interpret cyclic transit aspect charts, especially the "big 4" (0, 90, 180, 270 aka upper square) much like return charts to get a better idea of the transit's potential.

Assuming you are content with your individuality, and express it in a healthy manner, the new Saturn/Uranus cycle for you may help you solidify some of your Uranian traits. It could also help you figure out which Uranian parts of yourself you wish to solidify, versus those you wish to drop because they no longer do you any good. Remember that the conjunction indicates the start of a new cycle, a birthing of sorts, and not the conflictual energy of the 45/90/135/180 angular transits. For this reason, conjunction transits, while very powerful, seldom have the real difficulties and struggles involved in the conflictual transits. For example, the last transiting conjunction of Saturn/Uranus in the late 80s saw the forming (Saturn) of a number of high tech companies (Uranus) including some of the more major players in the computer industry today. Fastforward to around 2000-2001, which puts you in the midst of the first (lower) square of the cycle, and you have the "dot-com implosion" which put a huge dent in the high-tech industry, a good example of how the conjunction starts new things and the conflictual transits can cause some real troubles for what was started.

I am unsure about the opposition to the Venus/Chiron conjunction, honestly :)

However, Saturn crossing over your ascendant, you should be looking forward to, plain and simple. While the Saturn Return around age 29 brings you into true "adulthood", it is said that you don't "have the keys" until Saturn has made its second cross over your ascendant. Several pieces I've read on the Saturn return indicate this, yet I am not old enough to have personal experience. It is said that after Saturn crosses your ascendant the second time, which of course will be between your first and second return, you have finally entered the emotional maturation phase, without so many material/worldly restrictions imposed. Saturn transiting through the first house is also useful to work on the image people see you as, and bring it into more socially acceptable terms, at least outwardly.

In short, many people fear Saturn's transits more than they should. While Saturn can bring tough lessons through restrictions and difficulty, remember patience is his big thing, as well as success, stability and responsibility. Saturn seldom brings on the sort of grand insanity and beyond-your-control situations the outer planet transits can encourage, and almost always shows you new and more workable ways to be who you truely are. It's all in your attitude to Saturn's teachings, and how much you kick like a screaming baby and block the energy. It's also worth mentioning Saturn transits are _alot_ easier if you're conscious of the process, especially considering Saturn (along with the Sun/Moon) are the three planets of consciousness, forming the central triangle of the enneagram and thus the planetary representation of the trinity of human consciousness.

Also, one planet seldom works alone. Sure, one planet usually forms the "trigger", which shows up by forming a very tight orb aspect in a crisis chart, but there's always another factor that the situation is bouncing off of. For this reason, it's wise to check what transiting (real-time sky) aspects occur to Saturn while in tight orbed transit to a natal object. A major aspect between transiting Saturn and another transiting planet indicates the other transiting planet is making a transit to the same natal planet Saturn is transiting. These sort of situations can be far more powerful than a one-on-one transit to your natal chart, and they also modify the tone of the Saturn transit.

Anyways, just figured I'd offer some input, and again do my often-practiced job of trying to convince people to look at ole Saturn with less gloom and doom and a more positive views of the gifts available ;) After participating in the earth-shaking unpredictability and high pitched shrill of Uranus transits, the foggy bottoms of Neptune transits, and the sheer power and destruction available through Pluto transits, one can be contented with experiencing the transits of any object you can see with the naked eye... Not that the outer planets are all bad news, but they can be much more difficult forces to encounter.

[Claire19]

In my own experience Saturn Mercury conjunct Pluto suicidal thoughts in 6th house because of lack of work and not able to pay rent or buy food. Moon square Pluto also suicidal thoughts from the 3rd house. Depression also throught disappointed love afffairs Neptune Mars Venus 8th house with Chiron conjunct. Since gaining my spiritual beliefs and a change in diet I have never suffered again the deep depressions from my younger days. I know now how to alleviate the symptoms through herbal preparations and positive thinking.

That I never actually went through with ending my life I attribute to the sextiles from the Mercury Pluto to Neptune Mars Venus perhaps.

There are many and varied aspects but Pluto, Neptune and Saturn all play a part as does Uranus for sudden and shocking events.

Claire

[VenusInAries]

Thank you Unu for making me smile you gave me this idea at looking at my Saturn square Mars.. and :: big hug:: thank you for the input on the other stuff really gave me some thoughts.. and yes I'm very comfortable in my weirdness :: sticking out tongue:: when someone says I'm weird I take it as a compliment lol :P so who knows maybe Saturn will tame me down a bit lol but here I decided to have fun with looking at the three hits from Saturn :)

My Mars adventure with Saturn
Novel Written by the Sky
Playwright Theresa

Lets set the scene:

Mars Natally is in a dashing fun sign Sagittarius, yet retrograde. Mars is currently residing in a 1 bedroom loft in the 2nd house. Yet is landlord and rules what goes on in house #7. It loves to get into playful fights with his opposing neighbor Mercury in Gemini who lives in house # 8. Let not forget the private shady neighbor that gives everyone the creeps Mister Pluto living in house # 12 that likes to square off with happy go lucky Mars.

ACTION!

1st hit of Saturn

Transiting Eros & Sun in 12th house oppose my venus
Moon in 3rd square my Pluto
Venus in 1st 6 degree opposition from sun
Mars 1st house exactly oppose my Saturn
Saturn in 11th house exactly square my Mars
Lilith in 2nd house conjunct my Mars
Jupiter 3rd house square my venus
Uranus 5th house, sextile sun, 4 degree square of mars,
Neptune moving into 5th house, 2 degree square from Sun
Transiting Juno & Pluto in 3rd square my south and north nodes
North Node in the 4th sextile my venus and my mars, square my Sun
Transiting Chiron exact degree as North Node so same as above

2nd hit of Saturn

Sun conjunct 7th house angle
Transiting Venus, Mars & Uranus 6th house conjunct North Node
Mercury in 7th house just came from being conjunct my Saturn
Saturn 11th house square my Mars
Juno in 5th conjunct my moon
Vesta in 8th square my moon
Pallas in 9th trine my moon
Ceres in 11th oppose my moon
Pholus 2nd conjunct my mars
Pluto 3rd square my Uranus

3rd hit of Saturn and blessed be the last for now lmao

Transiting Sun & Vesta conjunct in 9th house square my N. & S. Node Trine my moon square Uranus
Moon conjunct 7th house angle
Mercury square my moon
Venus Mars 7 degrees from conjuncting Sun in 7th
Jupiter 5th 6 degree conjunction of moon
Juno 6th conjunct North Node
Transiting Eros and Ceres opposite in the sky from 11th to 5th house making t-square with my Mars

Well that first one seems a bit scarey. Saturn square my Mars while Mars is oppose my Saturn! Seems like the 1st hit is very focused with Mars and Saturn energy with that and Lilith conjunct my Mars. My Mars needs some Armor lol.

2nd hit .oooo doggy yee haw looks like moon gets a nice slap smack around a bit lol :P

3rd hit not sure I mean jupiter conjunct the moon actually seems kind of nice no? My mars looks like it gets one more attack with Saturn Ceres conjunct squaring my Mars and Eros getting thrown in the mix to form a t-square.

I’m wondering as I look at this if really my moon is still getting some lessons from the Saturn oppose my moon early on. My moon that can have a pity party at the drop of hat might be getting some firm maturity smacks lol..

I’m gonna make charts on those two as well as when Saturn square my Mercury in the 8th house. I think Claire made some points in sharing her experience with the hits on Mercury. I am worried about my weakness for depression and having Saturn oppose my moon then square my Mercury in the 8th house. Wanna feel prepared ya know. Claire I am very into microbiotic diets and I’m a vegan I would love to hear about some ways to alleviate symptoms through herbalism. You could email me on this if you like and if you are comfortable give you my email address, health stuff like that I like very much.

I do appreciate this idea of looking at everything UnuKalhai. It’s easy for me to lose my focus and just see the one transit. And I do agree Mister Saturn there shouldn’t always get a bad wrap. I have venus in the 6th house when Saturn hit it.. think about it.. venus beauty ..saturn rules bones and teeth in the 6th house of health.. I had a lot of denist work done I became obsessed with the beauty of my teeth. And of course Saturn and Venus money wise.. I used up all my money getting my teeth all pretty lol so nothing doom and gloom came about. My Saturn return in the 7th I got married. I will say that first hit of Saturn unnerves me to see a double whammy of mars saturn action. Guess we will wait and see right

[Claire19]

First of all do youself a favour and forget all asteroids and fixed stars with transits. How can you possibly synthesise all that? They are not viable anyway. Also only the transits and progressions that have the same planets in aspect but not necessarily the same kind of aspect, just needs to have a contact, in your natal chart will have any major influence. I find that I have to repeat this over and over and it is a big mistake that amateur astrologers make thinking that i.e. Jupiter going over 5th house will bring a baby, a lover or lottery luck. The planet must hit a planet in that house and there must be the aspect in the natal chart to back it up and favourable aspects to the 8th house of other assets and possibly 2nd house of personal assets etc. This is why so many predictions fail to come true.. The nature of the planets involved will determine if it is emotional, physical, mental effect.

[VenusInAries]

I respect you opinion Claire but disagree sorry. I will always consider myself a student of astrology but never an amature. I have studied with Daniel Giamario and Jeffery Greene.. and I have been told several times on the three different hits a planet makes by them but always lose sight on this and I disagree on the asteroids affects as well as not looking at the bigger picture of what other transits are going on. But thanks.

[Claire19]

Hi there

I dont know what you mean by three different hits the planets make. Also who has the definition of what influence the asteroids have?? Has anyone proved their value??? Nowhere in my 25 years of astrology practise and study have I found accurate definitions of them. They are shrouded in myth and legend and invention. Chiron may have a value but no one knows whether it is a comet, asteroid or minor planet. Asteroids are only space junk and often debris from exploded planets.

I think people will invent influences to give them the answers that they want one way and another.

Also snow and ice belongs to Neptune and with Saturn belonging to rock formation perhaps Neptune and Saturn together indicate solidified water, snowballs and any compacted snow

Claire.

.

[VenusInAries]

Well again I say live and let live so do what you want with asteroids :: blowing kiss:: and I'll do what I want.

And I will take that your lack of a response on my question I asked at the end of that one post is a no.. because I doubt very highly you would respond to a post in such a short sharp hateful manner as you did without reading the entire post.

[starlink]

Hello Jagtoile! Yes, you are right, Pluto on the Ascendant and all the suffering she went through during her life would be enough to decide to end it all. I guess it is my Taurus Sun in 6th that wants proof and facts. Fantastic woman she was, amazing how someone can hold on that long.

[starlink]

Venus, I am impressed by what Unu (kalhai) wrote. It was right up my street. Why do people always concentrate on the bad before the good? Why are we so afraid? You write that you know where your weakness lies. Where do your strength lie? Concentrate on that! Also, I think (my personal opinion) that we should not lead our lives solely on what the stars (maybe) predict. I am afraid that that would lead us to a sort of "predicted" lifestyle instead of just live. So often I go through good times and when I look at my chart I think, gee, that did not look good at all and yet I had a great time. You see, we often do not know how certain aspects will work out and worrying ourselves sick beforehand is therefore not good. I seldom look at my chart, only when, let's say, a family member is about to die and I want to see if that shows up in my chart as well (to give an example). When I am, all of a sudden, in a really emotionally difficult situation, then I also look why I am feeling like that, but NEVER beforehand, because that would influence me (most of us I would say). Even a Solar Return can influence you, but I do those always. Do I see difficult aspects in it, then I do not delve too deep into it to find out what, when, how etc., just look which area of my life could be affected. I just go on enjoying life (when it is OK at that moment) and say to myself, when difficulties arise, I will deal with them accordingly. In astrology there is a great danger of letting the stars lead your life. I am really happy about the way Unu interpretes those heavy transits. Mars-Saturn, gee, it could mean that you could start something with a lot of determination, or putting an idea into reality. A square shows extra energy, power. We can use it positively. Let's stay positive in all this, always and like you say, it will pass or you end up with beautiful teeth!

[Claire19]

I agree with what you say about not letting astrology rule our lives. The stars impel but do not compel. I dont use the word good or bad with aspects but rather challenging and flowing. We can gain more from the so called bad aspects and grow. We need to take our natal chart conditions into account when tracking the transits too.

Claire

[Berynice]

I just read an article about suicide - a doctor who has followed suicides for many years and follows up on attempted suicides. The interesting thing is that the people who were "successful" usually committed suicide by jumping off a bridge or with a gun - and the people who were "unsuccessful" (at least the first couple of times) did long planning. Of the people who were prevented from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, only six percent went on to kill themselves. Their lives were changed. So I'm going to think that there are two types of suicides - impulsive (mars, uranus) and the ones that come from depression which would have a whole different astrological implication. That's it for now, but I would look to see if the suicides are impulsive or planned/chronic.

[star2858]

I was not sure if this thread has been touched on before so please forgive me if it has.

I am curious has anyone studied the charts of those that have committed suicide. If so I would be curious of the transits they were going through before hand then the transits at the moment they ended their life.

I have not studied it but to me it seems like a heavy Saturn transit yes? But the moment they do it perhaps the transiting moon is jumping in the mix too? Just very curious of what others have noticed or the information they have gathered.

Thanks and happy turkey day :banana: sorry all you turkeys :: pout:: not a good day to be you :: wink::

I am going to saturn opposite uranus currently and feel like dying everyday. I find myself getting tearful quickly and crying lots. I'm trying to be so brave. I am soon (28 March) to enter my saturn square natal saturn period. It's going to be difficult. Got final year law exams!

[star, it sounds like you may need to have suicide counseling. Please get help immediately and see this post:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14693 - Moderator]

[star2858]

[deleted duplicate post - Moderator]

[Nexus7]

I would imagine if the Saturn Uranus transit oppositon is hitting snesitive points in any natal chart, then any individal experience experiencing them might feel like the proverbial primed explosive, if circumstances are at all confining. Nobody likes to feel trapped, or forced to compromise beyond what they might feel they should do.

I'm not sure I agree with whoever suggested that hard Saturn transits to natal Moon are a breeze - I suspect these can be anything but, it could be at these times particularly when the carpet of whatever may be sustaining is is most decisively or brutally swept away away - sometimes repeatedly.

But any set of transits might lead to suicidal feelings - including birthdays. I knew at least one person once who chose to exit not a long way shy of his solar return.

But let us be clear again that this act is a choice, though one maybe, based on an incomplete understanding of the whole picture, the main incomplete factor being, perhaps that these things, as all transits and progressions must, pass.

There might be other solutions to changing life and outlook that havn't been considered yet.

[Ekim86]

I have seen my grandpa commit suicide when Pluto crossed over his sun. Bullet to the brain. Robert Hands inturpation is right on the money. I wish I could of showed him what was going on but I wasn't at that point in astrology during the time. His birth time is unknown so its a rough chart but pluto is pretty much on his sun. Also a werid thing was when I came home from work and heard the news I thought right away that he was a Sagg sun sign. I have never heard any information about any corrospondance between sag and suicide but Sagg just poped into my mind. Then a few days latter I found out he was a sagg. Just intuitive on it i guess. He was one of my own, a sagg sun. Amazing how this transit can rob a sag of every optimistic thought in him. Or maybe suicide was his optimistic thought. I went through this transit years before him when I was a little kid thank god. When the only worries in your mind are getting picked last for kick ball:o

[luneblanche]

Hi! I've tried to commit suicide 3 times. In 2005, 07, and 09. Don't know about the transits behind it but I suppose I can reason them to a depressive mind that wraps my core mind and soul. Astrologicaly the depression is due my limitations of Saturn that causes me great strain. (Mars/Saturn square, Saturn/Neptune square) Cap in the 5th house that blocks my mental creativity and the ruler in the 12th which brings me great fears about the unknow, my future, my abilities... To add that the way that I extremely feel things (Pluto/Moon conj) just deepens that depressive state of mind.
Don't know that I'll try again, but I can assume that I will because I don't feel I can change and as well, I don't see much happiness in my chart.

[hermetic]

I used to be very depressed&suicidal at one point few years ago, and now looking at trasits at that time, I am sure it had to do with transiting Saturn for me

first it squared my Sun - I was really full of hatred toward myself, soon after it crossed my Ascendant, I lost huge amount of weight and got very underweight, that worsened my depressive state even more; and soon after it Saturn opposed my natal Moon - that was the worst part I believe - I had suicidal thoughts daily, and could barely function. I was on antidepressants that did nothing. Not eating was active again and it was in a way a slow form of suicide. If that continued for more time I am not sure what would happen to me...

I am of depressed disposition, but never as during those times I was that severe. Definitely worst 2 years of my life:rolleyes:

[Nexus7]

Lune Blanche

In view of a thread I have seen a long way from here, I do feel the need to comment: the aspects you list do sound rather tough, but you know, you are a whole lot more than your chart and how you define yourself through this.

An old wisdom is that whilst your chart may show up the biggest problems in your life, it also has within it the seeds of its own best solutions to these problems. As just one example, Moon/Pluto can be heavy-duty - but also does have enormous capacity for regeneration and transmuting of many of the negative emotions that may assail you.

[R4VEN]

Lune Blanche

In view of a thread I have seen a long way from here, I do feel the need to comment: the aspects yopu list do sound rather tough, but you know, you are a whole lot more than your chart and how you define yourself through this.

An old wisdom is that whilst your chart may show up the biggest problems in your life, it also has the seeds of its own best solutions to these problems. As just one example, Moon/Pluto can be heavy-duty - but also does have eneormous capacity for regeneration and transmuting of many of the negative emotions that may assail you.
Well said, Nexus.

Lune Blanche, if you want to look into your chart a bit more then check out Neptune Square Saturn - it's quite a challenge, but certainly not insurmountable.

I've known a number of people who have suicided. Most have had some kind of long-term struggle to stay here. I have also felt this struggle, and I can honestly say that whenever I have entertained the idea that `life is just too hard', something dramatic has occurred that has shown me that I'm needed here, that I have a purpose, if only one which is short-term and mundane.

My view is that a difficult Chiron placement can be found in the charts of some suicides. I've just checked out the natal chart and time-of-death charts of Nick Drake, English singer/song-writer (born in 1948) who took an overdose at 26 after a long journey through deep and debilitating depression. As well as having Chiron and south node in Scorpio (a very tough arrangement indeed) the only (obvious) triggers for his death being at that particular time appear to be:
Saturn conj his Cancer Asc
Mars in exact conj with his natal Chiron in Scorpio in 5th (on 5th house cusp)Drake found performing in front of people very painful, almost impossible, and retreated to his parents' house essentially to die.
Natally, he had Uranus conj Sun in Gemini, and I've found the sun-uranus conjunction on the charts of a number of people with extremes of behaviour. It's almost as though this aspect renders some people (note I say `some', and not `all') more sensitive to the electrical nature of their environment. One young man I know with his natal sun and Uranus conj in Sag has had an almost 10-yr struggle with just being on the planet. He's done the whole drug thing, and that fries his brain, so now he's just zombied out on pharmaceuticals. I'm not sure which is worse.........

[luneblanche]

Nexus, R4ven, thanks for the words.

[venusfriend]

Suicide

ADHAFERA (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Adhafera.html) 27LEO34 General
DENEBOLA (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Denebola.html) 21VIR37 Sun
DENEBOLA (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Denebola.html) 21VIR37 Uranus
HOEDUS I (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Hoedus1.html) 18GEM38 Setting
HOEDUS II (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Hoedus11.html) 19GEM27 Setting
KOCHAB (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Kochab.html) 13LEO19 Sun
MIRA (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Mira.html) 01TAU31 Mercury
SCHEAT (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Scheat.html) 29PIS22 General
UNUKALHAI (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Unukalhai.html) 22SCO05 Saturn
UNUKALHAI (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Unukalhai.html) 22SCO05 Uranus
NUNKI (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Nunki.html) 15SCO05 Neptune
ZAURAK (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Zaurak.html) 23TAU52 General

Suicidal thoughts in female charts

ALIOTH (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Alioth.html) 08VIR56 Sun

source: Death (http://www.constellationsofwords.com/categories/Death.html)

[deleted link to non-astrological, possibly offensive video - Moderator]

[Max (12/09/87)]

There are two equations on this website to help you discover where suicide fits in your chart:

http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

[Watersign]

I tried to kill myself with pills and alcohol because of depression and an obsessive love affair.
http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=tvqfileyZzC9A-u1233637891&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=4&nho2=1&btyp=24subtit&mth=gw&sday=16&smon=6&syr=1997&hsy=-1&zod=&orbp=&rs=0&ast=
I have many times wondered what was going on astrologically to contribute to the horrible darkness and desperation I felt. Just looking now, I see Saturn transiting chiron in the twelfth house. Mars may be moving into a grand cross pluto/moon opposition in the sixth house of health and service. Pluto's near or about to transit the eighth house. Neptune is the in the natal eighth house. Maybe the pills/neptune and pluto/obsession are represented there. Neptunes and Uranus are also transiting the tenth house. I'm not advanced enough to really know what's going on here. I would love some insight though. Am I on target? Am I missing something?:eek:
Also after I recovered I made good changes and everything has been a lot better since. Not happily ever after but it didn't turn out to be a kind of pluto transformative experience in a good way.

[R4VEN]

I tried to kill myself with pills and alcohol because of depression and an obsessive love affair.
http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=tvqfileyZzC9A-u1233637891&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=4&nho2=1&btyp=24subtit&mth=gw&sday=16&smon=6&syr=1997&hsy=-1&zod=&orbp=&rs=0&ast=
I have many times wondered what was going on astrologically to contribute to the horrible darkness and desperation I felt. Just looking now, I see Saturn transiting chiron in the twelfth house. Mars may be moving into a grand cross pluto/moon opposition in the sixth house of health and service. Pluto's near or about to transit the eighth house. Neptune is the in the natal eighth house. Maybe the pills/neptune and pluto/obsession are represented there. Neptunes and Uranus are also transiting the tenth house. I'm not advanced enough to really know what's going on here. I would love some insight though. Am I on target? Am I missing something?:eek:
Also after I recovered I made good changes and everything has been a lot better since. Not happily ever after but it didn't turn out to be a kind of pluto transformative experience in a good way. I think you're right when you describe it as a `Pluto tranformative experience'. You're right about all you mention, but when you talk in terms of obsessive relationships this smacks of Pluto and Neptune (and maybe Venus, but Venus would have to be affected by one of the transpersonal planets for something as dramatic as this to happen.) During this same time tr Saturn may have been forming a square with your natal Venus - difficulty in relating to others, and a feeling of being limited/restricted in your relationships.

You experienced transiting Pluto's conjunction to Neptune in Sagittarius - and with Neptune in the 8th, conjunct the 8th house cusp. Huge transformation, but not easy. At least you made it through to the other side.......which was obviously the purpose of this time in your life.

[Virinchi]

usually afflicted moon or 5th house gives suicide tendency
in vedic method. nodes if associated with moon, especially north node along with weak moon in 1st or 5th house gives suicde thoughts
also mercury if conjuct with nodes(especially south node) promotes the thought
and if sun is also afflicted then person dares to kill himself

in western i guess its pluto

[Mist Knacker]

In early 2005, I attempted suicide a couple of times.

The second time I did was on February 10, 2005 when I ran my car off of the road. At the time of this, the transiting planets were making no aspects to my natal planets.

During the whole period from January 18, 2005 to March 13, 2005, all of the transiting outer planets were not making any aspects to my natal planets. This period was the most difficult time I ever went through with the two suicide attempts and also a couple of times when I cut myself, though things were quite rough during an approx. 1.5 year period before this (though not this bad). This period was the only one where I had times where I cut myself. About the end of January was when I did the first suicide attempt, and on that one, I overdosed on drugs.

Here's how I consistently felt during this period, especially over the month of February, much of which had never been a problem for me:
Emotional numbness, as if my feelings had been completely turned OFF
I seemed to have a 3-word vocabulary
Often, responses to questions were no more than 1-word
Marked apathy
Anhedonia
Music did not evoke emotional arousal as before
Thoughts were often inhibited which caused me to have trouble describing things
Socially withdrawn
Mood never matched the circumstances at a given time
I saw the world in gray rather than in techni-color
Major OCD
Doing just ordinary daily stuff seemed too much trouble
Incessant mental tics where certain words would repeat over and over in my mind
Had a sense of feeling more 'mechanical' and 'robotic' and having to fake emotions (e.g. laughing) due to the emotional numbness, when, in reality, I did not feel anything at all from whatever was funny at that given time
The times when I was not emotionally numb, I would be in a state of severe depression. It was basically either emotional numbness/flatness or severe suicidal depression. This emotional numbing would, at times, actually lead into this depression due to the opportunities lost to be able to experience joy at that given time as everyone else. In the depression, the emotional pain would be bad that it felt like a giant vacuum cleaner was sucking my mood down. My mind would be in a confused state, and I would be unable to make decisions. Even with the pain and despair, I had no ability to cry. At times, agitation would be mixed in

During this entire time when I was experiencing all of the above, I kept thinking this as some unique form of "depression" or something. I was like, "Whatever the heck it is..." I've read about Schizophrenia and its negative symptoms, and my symptoms sure did fit those, but at the time, I never wanted to consider that I may possibly have had any kind of schizophrenic disorder.

Overall, to sum it up, this is basically what I kept on stating to my parents and also on some posts on mental health forums.
"What's the point of living if you can't feel anything at all??? I might as well be dead because I already feel dead inside."

I was basically just as a walking shell.

The lack of transits then reflected that, particularly at the time of that second suicide attempt.

At the time, the last outer planet transits going on were:
Neptune Square Saturn, which ended on January 17, 2005
Saturn Trine Mars, which finished its second pass on January 13, 2005

The next outer planet transit I would have would be:
Uranus Sextile Sun, which wouldn't begin until March 13, 2005.
It was after the beginning of this transit that I went back to work as things had gotten a bit better by then. Before this, I had been on Leave Of Absence since the end of December 2004.

Attached here are my natal chart and the incident chart.

[kazman32]

My father committed suicide and I have had terrible bouts of depression (bi-polar) I'm not able to read charts, but I wanted to say somehow hang in there they say "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem) or something like that...I don't have an extremely happy life but I know I have made positive impacts in other;s lives and I guess that gives me some satisfaction, counseling didn't do much for me, but I know it has helped others. I'm experimenting with some different meds, I now I have a dopamine problem, a lot of people have serotonin deficiency's.Meds can help if you can find the right one. For everyone who has felt like killing themselves your not alone! I know how you feel and the emotional pain you struggle with every day.

[pndt]

In commiting suicide, mercury plays major role and Moon is the doer.:sad:

[Lost_spirit]

Thanks for bringing this back!I am suicidal since I remember myself,so I'm glad to offer my chart for study purposes on this matter.I always considered suicide as a "giving up my life" thing,since I was 13.I'm 26 now.
Thoughts of suicide usually strike me in random days,and they usually last a day,next day I could be happy beyond belief and hate myself for the thoughts I had.But I've also spent some weeks or months planning it ahead 2 or 3 times,I always kept it to myself,so I was not trying to get attention.In the last minute there was always something that kept me from doing it.It was my will to stay strong and fight instead of giving up.
I'm sure it has something to do with my moon square pluto,and with my pluto saturn conjunction.Also Mercury square neptune could lead to these thoughts,with Neptune ruling my 8th house.
I have strong indications that next year may be the year of my death,either by suicide or by anything else.Because at the same time,progressed sun will be conjunct natal saturn and transit Saturn will be conjunct my sun in the solar return for 2010.I hope it's not in the form of suicide,I like to think some random person will do the dirty job for me.I'm surprised that after these years of having these thoughts I never lost my sense of humor.It's probably another part of the brain.:pinched:

[starlink]

Lost Spirit, I am sorry to hear this and I wonder why, when you had this since you were 13, nobody has sent you, and lateron, why you yourself did not seek professional help. There must be a reason for these bouts of depression, for instance, you could have some sort of hormonal imbalance maybe causing this.(not saying that that is the reason but you never know with depression). Have you ever been medically checked on this?-

Looking at your chart I see a very dignified Ascendant ruler, strong in the 1st house and strong in own sign. Then I also see a wonderfully placed Moon, also very strong in own sign and in the fortunate 11th house.(traditionally). And they sextile one another!! AND I see a dignified Jupiter in the 4th house in own sign. Three great positions showing strength, so I cannot imagine that you would be a person who thinks about suicide all the time if it were not caused by a physical imbalance or a psychological trauma.

Yes, Mercury squares Neptune, but Neptune trines the ruler of your Sun. The square can make you a bit delusional and too gullible, prone to desillusions, not really knowing who you really are and that in turn can make you feel very awkward when you are in the public view with that Chiron in the 10th. You might feel different for some reason and think maybe that people dont like you. Maybe you feel worthless. This often happens with Chiron in the 10th house. And as you see, Chiron squares your Ascendant exactly.


,I like to think some random person will do the dirty job for me


I dont think this is a very healthy thought and you really should try not think of death all the time and your own death and whatever. It is probably Neptune, ruler of the 8th trining your Venus, ruler of your Sun bringing these ideas up. Also Moon-Puto of course. By the way, that Venus of yours has to wide an orb to be in square aspect to Uranus/Jupiter. 10° is wide for a square. Mars is and because it conjuncts that Venus, I think Venus is being pulled into that square through Mars. This could cause you to push people away, not wanting too close contact with others. the Neptune square Mercury underlines this.


I'm surprised that after these years of having these thoughts I never lost my sense of humor.It's probably another part of the brain

I think it is your Sun sextile Jupiter/Uranus. (extreme=Uranus, optimism=Jupiter).
Thank God you have this aspect in your chart. It is not only sense of humor, it also gives you optimism which probably saves you in the end.

Now where could all this come from if it is not a hormonal imbalance? You pointed out the Pluto-Moon square. But I also have that in my chart AND a Sun-Pluto square and I never think of these things, so that is not really a valid argument unless you can give a reason for it. It does tend to make you a passionately deep feeling person however, who can be hurt easily.

Which house does Pluto rule in your chart? Your 4th, your family and early upbringing and I suspect that maybe there lies the reason for these bouts of depression you have.
Something probably happened to you in your childhood and it could have scarred you and subconsciously make you want to kill yourself. These feelings come back to you, also subconsciously, maybe because something is triggered in that 4th house or that Moon-Pluto square being transited by the Moon (as you say it lasts so shortly).

The Pluto-Saturn conjunction squares your Mars /Ascendant conjunction and that shows violence. That together with an exact Uranus/Jupiter conjunction in the house of family could therefore show domestic violence which could have strongly affected you and undermined you selfconfidence and selfworth. There could also be alot of pent-up aggression and anger inside yourself.

Still, you cannot put all the blame on the stars. Please read again what I wrote above in my post nr.26 and Nexus's post nr.35. Try concentrating on the positive aspects of your chart. Your creative side (sculpting as a hobby could be a good outlet for you!).

There could be something physically or psychologically out of balance when you have these thoughts and urges. These moments dont just come from nowhere and certainly not from the stars!



In commiting suicide, mercury plays major role and Moon is the doer.


And this cannot be the reason here either. Your Mercury as well as your Moon are very strongly placed, notwithstanding the square from Mercury to Neptune which makes you a dreamer rather than a suicider. Mercury plays a major role only when there are signs of mental illness I would think and in your chart does not aspect the ruler of your 6th house.
Moon most always functions as trigger to progressions and such, Moon is not "the doer" in my opinion. But maybe PNDT means exactly that.

I do hope you will seek help because it would be a shame to just waste your life and almost waiting for your death to come around the corner. That really is no way to live, pardon me saying this. There is a lot of good to be seen in your chart and the Mutual Reception between Venus and your Sun shows you could be artistic as well. Venus rules your MC so maybe a career in the arts would be something to pursue.

Good luck, STarlink.

[Lost_spirit]

Thank you very much for your reply Starlink.I try to avoid doctors cause I don't want to take any medication,plus,I have some friends who changed for the worst after visiting a psychologist.
My depression could be caused by hormones,since it's usually very temporary,but it's also a mixture of other things in my childhood,teen,and early adult life that affected me negatively.Such as the rejection of people,the betrayal of friends,loneliness,and the absence of compassion and affection from my parents.It's my mother usually who drives me crazy,since she is bossy and very unsupportive.My father is absent,since he works all the time and we rarely communicate.The thing is,most people like my mother,since she is very outgoing and loving,BUT not with me.She also blamed me for a short depression she had a few years ago.
So after all this blaming,I feel I want to be victimized at last,maybe that's why I want to die.I feel like a burden to the people around me,at least to some of them and sometimes I feel they will appreciate me more as a dead person than as a living.
I'm very aware of my good side,I'm into arts,painting and photography and maybe something good can come out of this.And I can be funny as well.I can be really sarcastic about myself and I'm good at giving a funny side to even the worst situations.I'm very loyal and rightful as well.That's my good side.The thing is,I feel so broken and disturbed as a personality,that I can't move on,get a job or do something serious in my life.In other words,I don't want to grow up anymore.:pouty:

[R4VEN]

Which house does Pluto rule in your chart? Your 4th, your family and early upbringing and I suspect that maybe there lies the reason for these bouts of depression you have.
Something probably happened to you in your childhood and it could have scarred you and subconsciously make you want to kill yourself. These feelings come back to you, also subconsciously, maybe because something is triggered in that 4th house or that Moon-Pluto square being transited by the Moon (as you say it lasts so shortly).

The Pluto-Saturn conjunction squares your Mars /Ascendant conjunction and that shows violence. That together with an exact Uranus/Jupiter conjunction in the house of family could therefore show domestic violence which could have strongly affected you and undermined you selfconfidence and selfworth. There could also be alot of pent-up aggression and anger inside yourself.


As a long-term on & off suicide ideator (but not lately since having hit upon some core reasons for this) I can relate to what you are saying, Lost_Spirit, but I also totally agree with what starlink has said in her post.

For the kind of feeling - all your life - of which you speak I would look to the 4th house, and being ruled by Pluto, this would indicate that it is within your early life in your family of origin that your power was compromised in some way. That is, someone (and you have indicated your mother) somehow - mostly unintentionally I would think - stymied your power, so that now in adulthood you feel powerless to go on.

I also agree that medication is not an answer, as it just puts a lid on the true feelings. Depression is your rage - towards your mother, the world - turned in upon yourself. If you can, when you next feel suicidal, allow yourself to feel somthing, anything - other than `I must off myself and get outta this place' - then you can begin to uncover your true beliefs about yourself.

I suspect that whatever happened to you as a child growing up led you to believing things about yourself which are not and never were true. You are going to have to address these beliefs before you can change them. Feeling powerless to do anything other than what you are doing now is a truly terrible feeling. I know all about that. But you do not have to continue to treat yourself in the same way that you felt your mother treated you. This is kinda dumb.

[starlink]

Hi Lost Spirit! thank you for your frank reply. I am glad you do recognize the origin of your problem. Just for you info, I have a brother who is bi-polar and you are right, the medicines do help (against the depressions and because there is some sort of substance which his body is not producing so he gets it in the form of a pil. That is OK. But it does not help getting rid of the underlying psychological problems he also has due to his childhood experiences, so what I actually meant is talking, not medicating. Where he lives he is in a state owned psychiatric facility and they just dont have time to do real psychologic work with their patients, they just calm them down with medication. Horrible!

There are also people these days, who can help you very well without any medication at all. A Psychologist is not allowed to prescribe medicine because they are not MD's. Only psychiatrists can do this as they study medicine before doing psychiatry.

I have gone to a person who balances out chakra's, does hypnotism as well when necessary and helps you remember past life trauma's, for my problems relating to traveling. She is well known here and does give seminars as well. I just cannot look forward to nice things in my life, it is as if I dont deserve it, not even vacations and I also dont feel like visiting other places. This has really blocked me from visiting family and friends who live just about 1 hour's flight away.(I have Saturn square Mercury in my chart and Saturn in the 9th! I had to do forgiving exercises a.o. towards my parents and I also was pointed out what my former life had to do with all this. It has helped me enormously. I know now that it was also my mother as well as my father who took all my initiative away,unintentionally mind you!! My mother was also often depressed, she also blamed her children for loosing her waistline etc. She was a beautiful women and getting fatter after the babies, mmmm.... she just did not like that. But she could not help herself. She just could not give out love ( Venus conjunct Saturn in Virgo). As a child you dont understand those things of course.

Your mother probably has the inability to treat you the way she should treat her own daughter. Ever wondered how her own mother was to her? Maybe she (subconsciously) does not want to give you any more than she got from her own mother. Maybe she is projecting her own anger for her mother (or whomever), on you. There is always a reason for everything. If you can figure out why she was like that, maybe you can let go of your anger and realise that her behavior was not at all meant for you, but someone else. You just happened to be the closest. Maybe if your dad had been home, she would have given it to him!! Maybe she wanted to follow her own dreams and could not because he was not there and she was the only one who had to look after you.
All sorts of possibilities. You should just start to believe that you are lovable, that you are not a burden to others and certainly cannot make others happy by disappearing.!!

Wished I had met my therapist earlier on in my life, maybe I had done more with it. But it is never too late, even if it will benefit me for just a few years.
You are still young- Please do find someone, de-block yourself with the help of another person. You are a wonderful person, dont live on letting that little girl with her bad memories inside you telling you otherwise.

You can do it!!! Starlink

[Lost_spirit]

Thank you both for your nice words! I think I really need to work into forgiving people,since I feel my repressed anger is now coming to the surface and I can be abrupt without making any sense(at least to others).I'm writing a journal,which helps me structure my thoughts and understand myself better,but I am a little reserved in the things I write,since my mother discovered it a few years ago and learned a lot of my secrets.Maybe I should let myself more free when I write to it.I understand that I must do something,and it will take hard work from my side,but I have to do it.I won't let myself be destroyed and especially self-destroyed.:innocent:

In any case,since this thread discusses the timing of such things,I feel that my progressed mercury and sun to natal Pluto and Saturn has highlighted this feelings as well as progressed Mars and Venus to natal Mercury(3 degrees away from exact).And of course the transit of Saturn to my mercury for the last 2 years,and now moving slowly to my Sun.