Virgo 24: Mary and her white lamb...

[sdh3]

[...and the five kingdoms]

The name Mary descends from the Semitic root rym, “to give.” Other derivatives include the name Miriam and the flower marigold.

The word white descends from kweit- which means “white, to shine.” Other derivatives include wheat, bismuth, edelweiss, whiting (a food fish), and witloof.

The word lamb descends from the Pre-Germanic lambaz, as do the Old Norse, Old Frisian and Gothic lamb, and the Middle High German lamp.

COMMENTARY: Minerals, plants, animals, and man—the four kingdoms of the natural world are evident among the keywords, their roots, and their paronyms. The mineral kingdom is represented by Bismuth, a paronym of white, “a heavy brittle diamagnetic trivalent metallic element.” The plant kingdom is represented by edelweiss (an alpine perennial plant native to Europe), witloof (widely cultivated herb with leaves valued as salad green), wheat, and marigold (any of various American plants of the genus Tagetes, widely cultivated for their showy yellow or orange flowers). Animals are the whiting (a food fish of the Atlantic waters of Europe resembling the cod) and the lamb. The human being is, of course, Mary, “the mother of Jesus and the principal saint in many Christian churches.” But to many, Jesus was more than a "saint", he was and is the Son of God, an expression of the divine. As such, a fifth kingdom is implied, the kingdom of God.

[piercethevale]

[...and the five kingdoms]

The name Mary descends from the Semitic root rym, “to give.” Other derivatives include the name Miriam and the flower marigold.

The word white descends from kweit- which means “white, to shine.” Other derivatives include wheat, bismuth, edelweiss, whiting (a food fish), and witloof.

The word lamb descends from the Pre-Germanic lambaz, as do the Old Norse, Old Frisian and Gothic lamb, and the Middle High German lamp.

COMMENTARY: Minerals, plants, animals, and man—the four kingdoms of the natural world are evident among the keywords, their roots, and their paronyms. The mineral kingdom is represented by Bismuth, a paronym of white, “a heavy brittle diamagnetic trivalent metallic element.” The plant kingdom is represented by edelweiss (an alpine perennial plant native to Europe), witloof (widely cultivated herb with leaves valued as salad green), wheat, and marigold (any of various American plants of the genus Tagetes, widely cultivated for their showy yellow or orange flowers). Animals are the whiting (a food fish of the Atlantic waters of Europe resembling the cod) and the lamb. The human being is, of course, Mary, “the mother of Jesus and the principal saint in many Christian churches.” But to many, Jesus was more than a "saint", he was and is the Son of God, an expression of the divine. As such, a fifth kingdom is implied, the kingdom of God.


The Sabian symbol is very similar to the one giver for the 20th of Pisces. Rudhyar, of course, recognized the similarity and made sure that his readers understood the difference of definition.
The 20th of Pisces in the Part of Increase and Benefits [$$$] for my friend 'Mitch'...the fellow mentioned in my book that was born on 6/6/62 at 6:06 AM.
When I met him in 2001 or early 2002 he was basically homeless. Sold marijuana to support his need and for the money. He got contracts with most of the old shops and stores on Historic Sutter St. in Folsom and picked up a steady 3 to 5 hours a day, 5 days a week, doing odd jobs and sometimes even bar back at the Powerhouse Pub.
It is similar to Virgo 24 in that a childish naivete` is prescribed to this symbol of expectation.
I must say it is symbolically exactly the way Mitchs' attitude and subsequent action that, he very obviously has and always demonstrates as to any plan of action as to $$ or material goods of monetary value and he has apparently, just as naturally believes in this very attitude and just as sure as the Sun does rise he will assuredly keep this attitude or action as to the obtaining of $$$...albeit not consciously, as He never knew about Sabian Symbols applied to Arabic Parts and symbolic interpretation of the Parts until about 7 years ago...Honestly, He is very studied in a lot of occult and esoteric knowledge but knew enough about Astrology to leave it alone as He never saw any convincing evidence that there was enough correct technique being used or enough of a worthwhile reward to listen to any astrologer as he didn't see any info or remote possibility of any info that would tell him anything he already didn't know about himself or give him any edge in business.
Let's not forget that Jesus/Yeshua of Nazareth is called the "Lamb of God"...I think that is the most obvious connecting to Jesus/Yeshua aside from the girl being named Mary. I would think since
Elsie said "Mary and her little lamb"..not just 'a girl' or some other adjective, pronoun or noun. It would behoove the interpreter to understand the old nursery rhyme as it definitely meant that to Elsie...whether she was aware consciously, or otherwise, of stating "Mary and her little lamb" just as it is said in the Rhyme itself as I seem to remember. Marys' lamb was always "Sure To Follow". her....she could depend on it.
That wouldn't be what the lamb of Pisces 21* would do As it is being watched by a member of the yellow race with curiosity, more than likely, and with a "kind eye", which were in Elsies' own words as near as I can assume or presume. According to the text one could assume that the Chinese man is a benevolent man but this lamb doesn't guarantee to follow you out of any love or sense of servitude.
One should keep close and cling tightly the object of their 'Hope' [the lamb] to their self at all times... and trust only themselves and or their Spiritual guide, teacher, guru or clergyman with any temporary possession themselves of any any thing of spiritual value that brings and or has brought HOPE. This applies to Pisces 21* where-as Virgo 24* seems to be stating that your innocent hope will remain with you...For an example of why such a difference might be to ones advantage: I'd much rather have Virgo 24* for my Part of Benefits and Increase than Pisces 21*
I would like to state that there is belief [of which I subscribe to although for other reasons...] that the sign Aries is really supposed to be symbolically a Lamb...not a RAM [I apologize for the previous word, Goat, I had mistakenly used...it maybe the reason I woke up in the middle of this night having just dreamnt a goat had jumped on top of the vehicle I was driving and attempted to bite and eat my finger as I tried to shoosh it away]. Taurus is supposed to be a "Cow"...this is according to a couple of schools of Astrology to which I give the benefit of any doubt on this matter.
June Wakefields book "Cosmic Astrology The Religion of the Stars" talks about this and another subject she includes, that I find so fascinating, is how the 'glyphs' for Astrological signs, etc. became what they currently are, how they evolved. For example, I wondered what Jupiter and Saturns' glyphs where supposed to represent and why did their symbols do not consist of an orb, an 'O', like all the sub Jupiter Planets and the Luminaries do.
It turns out that although I had many times thought of Jupiters' glyph being some aberration of the number 4 and that Saturns' looked like the letter 'H' for some **** good reason.
According to June Wakefield both Jupiter and Saturn consist of a 'Cross' which represents matter and Jupiter has one of the antennae associated with Mercury representing 'Mind'...thus Jupiter represents "Mind over Matter"...and why it is known to distribute the 'Goods' as it rules over them.
Saturn also is a 'Cross' but with the antennae pointing down...representing matter over Spirit. The symbol O represents Spirit. Thus the glyph for Venus is Spirit descending into matter ...the cross of Venus glyph. That of Mercury is the same as Venus but the two antennae represent Spirit descending into matter but guided by the mind.
I'm glad that you chose this symbol to analyze sdh3 as it gave me a wonderful opportunity as to pointing out a reason that Rudhyar/Wheeler/Jones' Sabian Symbols should be the first and foremost resource of interpretation and understanding. As there are great but subtly appearing meanings to be perceived that can and will most likely be missed or misunderstood if we allow people like Goldsmith to change or re-interpret them. Adding to the accuracy of knowledge by adding to the definitions as they now stand is admirable and needed if one is correct...but altering or changing the symbol itself will only mislead and could even be a catastrophe for the recipient of the info...

[piercethevale]

There was something nagging at me about this thread...I finally realized the symbol is described thus in Rudhyars' book: "(VIRGO 24°): MARY AND HER LITTLE LAMB."...
That's "Little"...I don't see the word "White" anywhere.
sdh3, what reference source are you using? I don't have a copy of the Jones book, so if He and Rudhyar differed on this it would be of great interest to me...as that kinda changes the ultimate meaning of the symbology a bit.

[sdh3]

There was something nagging at me about this thread...I finally realized the symbol is described thus in Rudhyars' book: "(VIRGO 24°): MARY AND HER LITTLE LAMB."...
That's "Little"...I don't see the word "White" anywhere.
sdh3, what reference source are you using? I don't have a copy of the Jones book, so if He and Rudhyar differed on this it would be of great interest to me...as that kinda changes the ultimate meaning of the symbology a bit.

Using Jones' wording as given in his 1953 book, The Sabian Symbols in Astrology.
--sdh3

[piercethevale]

Using Jones' wording as given in his 1953 book, The Sabian Symbols in Astrology.
--sdh3

...Thank you..now, that may change my thinking a bit. I wish Rudhyar was alive to explain why He changed this one.
Mary and Her Little Lamb is one thing...[nursery ryhme]...but Mary and Her White Lamb...that immediately brings to mind the Virgin Mother and Jesus/Yeshua...Hmmmm, a conundrum...I'm going to have to get a copy of Jones book.

[piercethevale]

Gave it some more thought. I'll have to stick to Rudhyar on this one...I believe He changed it for the very reason I first stated...In that He knew Elsie was referring to the Mary of the nursery rhyme but Elsie was sub-consciously inferring spiritual hope by mentioning the lamb was white...thus it is the kind of spiritual hope that in turn seeks you out...that is if you are of worth of the ascended ones efforts.