Ok, I'm scared.

[SagiCap]

On March 9 I have an appt. with a dr and I'm so scared to do this procedure though I've been wanting to for years. It's not major, but will I do it - and, will I be happy with the results?

Chart has early ASC, but this is something I've thought about doing for many years.

Will I go through with it? I'm Sun in 8th/surgery. This is telling me, yes, I probably will. I'm also Moon in 7th, ruled by dr. if dr is 6th house ruler. I've also read specialists can be 10th h rulers, so which one would he be? I'm inclined to take Sat Rx as dr. and Mars as the surgery itself. Yes? No?Mars (if surgery) separates from Sun by conj. But does this mean no because it is separating?

Will I be happy with the outcome? I found a desc. of Sun in Pisces that so aptly describes what I'm going through. As the twelfth sign of the zodiac, Pisces represents the twelfth and final stage in the evolution of man and his place in the universe. Here, the desire is to use all that has been learned and assimilated in order to gain perfection; of man as an individual and humanity as a whole. This perfection leads man to his rightful place in the universe. Though not all Pisceans occupy their time with such lofty aspirations as attaining their rightful place in the universe, the notion of perfection is a strong factor in their personality. They find it difficult to deal with people and situations that do not live up to their idealized images. It isn't that they can't see things clearly, they just don't want to accept things as they really are. Seeking greater perfection than the real world is capable of producing, they often turn to religion or other spiritual and philosophical disciplines. http://www.psychicfred.com/astrotext/pisces.htm

Very fitting as this would be a "perfecting" procedure of sorts. I'm very much a perfectionist in certain subjects....

I'm loving POF in my 11th here. I hope it means something materializing.



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5220/5489859060_9240c9cb39_z.jpg

[Sunny]

Hi, Sagi!
Your ASC is too early, wait once more and put the question later. :)

Cheers
Sunny

[dr. farr]

I feel I must go with Sunny's suggestion: delineating the current (2 degree asc chart) gives me pause:
-Part of Operations (asc+jupiter-sun) @ 29 Sagittarius, near exact opposition to your Part of Fortune
-all significators (Moon your body, Sun-you, even Jupiter: significator of the Part of Operations itself) flow away from the Part of Operations
-the Part of Operations (@ 29 degrees) is about to flow into the 6th whole sign house of ill health; also the Part of Operations being in Sagittarius is questionable, since (according to some, such as the researches of Charles Carter) Sagittarius is the most accident-prone of all the zodiacal signs.

Follow Sunny's suggestion and re-ask this question at a later time; with the 2 degree ascendant I believe it would be acceptable (to the Cosmos) to re-ask this question again.

[SagiCap]

I feel I must go with Sunny's suggestion: delineating the current (2 degree asc chart) gives me pause:
-Part of Operations (asc+jupiter-sun) @ 29 Sagittarius, near exact opposition to your Part of Fortune
-all significators (Moon your body, Sun-you, even Jupiter: significator of the Part of Operations itself) flow away from the Part of Operations
-the Part of Operations (@ 29 degrees) is about to flow into the 6th whole sign house of ill health; also the Part of Operations being in Sagittarius is questionable, since (according to some, such as the researches of Charles Carter) Sagittarius is the most accident-prone of all the zodiacal signs.

Follow Sunny's suggestion and re-ask this question at a later time; with the 2 degree ascendant I believe it would be acceptable (to the Cosmos) to re-ask this question again.

Thank you Sunny and dr. farr. I have the appt. next week. Mar. 9 so I'm not sure when to ask this again. I've already asked before too but it was about a different dr specifically. I'm so afraid.

I'm also not sure how there can be an accident - as its really an easy procedure involving a needle. Does that negate the need to consider "Part of Operations?" Sorry it's confusing.

[Kuntuzangmo]

I would say trust your apprehension.
It's there for a reason.

[SagiCap]

I'm just scared at the chart, K. Not the procedure. I've wanted to do this for 8 years now.

[Kuntuzangmo]

I'm just scared at the chart, K. Not the procedure. I've wanted to do this for 8 years now.


Okay. Good luck.

[SagiCap]

Okay. Good luck.

Thanks, my friend!

[dr. farr]

Any mechanical or manipulation treatment (even acupuncture) could be signified by the Part of Operations.
Just because the Part of Operations is posited in Sagittarius does NOT necessarily mean there would be an "accident"-as you know, several testimonies are always needed in an astrological delineation to point at a specific likely outcome. Actually I was more impressed (negatively) by the opposition of the Part of Operations to your Part of Fortune-and not really about anything physical so much as how YOU would think about what is done, ie, that you might not be happy with the outcome.

You can re-ask this same question at ANY time, even the very moment you read this post.

[SagiCap]

I learn a lot from you, Dr. F. Again, many thanks. :) I understand what you're saying entirely. I'm just getting anxious about the charts. I made another - and it shows my heading to combustion. That's my own state and not the procedure, so I can deal with that, but the rest of the chart, from my observation doesn't look to hot either.

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy71/Sezangel/astro_2at_29_will_i_be_happy_w_my_f.gif?t=12991252 49

I asked "will i be happy with the results if I go with Dr. E?" He's in my communication house and not aspecting me. I'm in my 4th, both Mars and Moon. Perhaps I cancel and stay home? There is a crowded 4th and it's in Pisces, with both of my signifactors not making any dignity at all, except I'm in his exaltation (the dr.) However, 8th ruler of operations is Merc and I'm about to conjunct that. Could that be his turned workplace (my 4th, his 10th) and I end up doing it? Moon is trine a Sat. Rx in 11th!

My question though was would I be happy with the results. Mars doesn't seem happy in Pisces heading to combustion. I need to know before the 9th. I'll have to study this chart for days. I have to be careful.

Thanks for your comments!

[dr. farr]

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary delineation and uses whole sign house format)

Let's consider this matter using both the Magic 8 Ball astro-divination technique and then the Primary Ankara horary:

Magic 8 Ball:

-in chart #1 the 8 Ball gives a "yes" answer to your question, whether we take (as I would) the Part of Operations (= Sagittarius = Jupiter = a yes answer) or if we choose the 8th (whole sign) house to signify "operations" = Pisces = Jupiter = a yes answer.
-in chart #2 the doctor = the 7th house = Taurus = Venus = a yes answer; I myself would take the Part of Operations which here falls @ 14 Libra = Libra = Venus = a yes answer to the question; if instead we take the 8th house to signify "operations" we find Gemini = Mercury = a yes answer

By the experimental Magic 8 Ball method, both the "too early ascendant" chart and the re-ask chart indicate a "yes" answer: very strongly so (highly auspicious readings by the 8 Ball method)


Primary Ankara horary:

-you = Scorpio = Mars
-the Dr specified = 7th = Taurus = Venus

-Venus and Mars make no aspect, nor does the Moon aspect these significators: this = - testimony; however, the Dr. (Venus) flows toward you (Dr advances to connect with you) which = + testimony: so in these considerations we get net neutral testimony

-Part of Fortune is in your house (the ascendant) which = + testimony; however all significators flow away from the POF which = - testimony; so regarding the POF we get net neutral testimony

-you (Mars) are just entering combustion AND conjunction with the Sun: Sun is a vitalizing principle, so the conjunction part of this is +; moreso, Sun rules Leo which is up at the top of the chart in the 10th whole sign house of success and honors and elevations: I INTERPRET THIS MARS/SUN situation as BENEFIC TO YOU (MARS) in THIS specific question regarding THIS specific situation: here I submit we have + testimony

-the Part of Operations is in Libra disposited by Venus: Venus is the Dr specified in this question and Venus flows toward you (Mars); the Part of Operations is also sign-trine to your co-significator (especially your BODY significator) the Moon; this is + testimony

-the Part of Operations is in your 12th house: I suggest this simply informs us of the worry, trepidation and doubts you have about the matter: nonetheless we give this indication - testimony

-the Lot of Realization of Needs & Desires (asc+mercury-pof) falls @ 28 Aquarius: this Lot indicates whether you will be happy with the results of the procedure, or not:
a) the Lot falls in the pivotal 4th house (angular) = + testimony
b) your co-significator the Moon flows toward this Lot (and is almost in conjunction with it) = + testimony
c) the Dr"s significator, Venus, flows toward this Lot; further, the dispositor of this Lot, Saturn, is in its exaltation degrees (posited in Libra), and Saturn in turn therefore is disposited by Venus: we find Venus and Saturn-significators of the Dr and of the Part of Operation and of the Lot of Realization of Need & Desires-to be in MUTUAL RECEPTION, and furthermore Saturn also disposits your co-significator, theMoon: all of this = + testimony
d) very significantly, the Part of Operations is sign-trine to the Lot of Realization of Needs & Desires, which indicates (to me at least) your satisfaction with the results of this procedure (and which = + testimony)

Adding up the testimonies we get:
Negative = - 1 testimony
Positive = + 6 testimonies
Net = + 5 testimonies

With a net +5 testimonies from Primary Ankara horary I delineate a strong "yes" answer to this question: yes, you will be satisfied if you go with Dr. E and yes, you will be happy with the results of this procedure...

[dr. farr]

So you have problems about "conflicting" testimonies, and about the re-asked question chart perhaps not being "legit" (because it might be a "too soon" re-asking of the question) I myself do not share these doubts-at all-but then I don't have the same outlook as the horary experts regarding horary rules and interpetations.
In the 2nd (in my opinion reliable) chart, even if we grant that Mars in combustion is a malefic/detrimental indication (reverse of my opinion in this specific case in this specific chart), then we would add this (combust Mars) to the - testimonies and subtract it from the + testimonies. Even if we do this, the totality of testimonies still adds up to a net + 3, which is a yes/auspicious answer to the question, only not as strongly yes as if we had counted the Mars situation as +.

But what to do when you have a couple of perhaps-questionable horary charts, or you believe you have what amounts to conflicting indications?

Answer: erect an event chart: you posted that you have an appointment for March 9th for the procedure: erect the chart for the date, place and time of your appointment, and then judge by the event chart indications:

-you = the lord of the ascendant of the event chart
-your co-significator = the Moon of the event chart
-use the place of the Part of Operations
-use place of the Lot of Realization of Needs&Desires
-the doctor performing the procedure = lord of the 7th house of the event chart
-I would additionally advise consulting indications of the Mansion of the Moon for the place of the Moon on that date and time

The results of your event chart trump any and all horary indications (in my book)
If you would like you may post that chart here and I will see what I make of it, using my approach...

[SagiCap]

Thanks, Dr. Farr. I've made an event chart, but I don't want to tax anyone's time (especially yours, because you've always been patient with my crazy questions.)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5137/5496730315_c5ca649f3f_z.jpg

Following your list, here's my take: (The chart planet placements look eerily similiar to my natal...)


-you = the lord of the ascendant of the event chart
Mercury in Pisces, Succeedent in 11 House of Goals/Hopes. In a pitted degree and heading toward a peregrine state. Should be considered in Aries due to its degree. Also, Mercury is conjunct Uranus which can be looking towards the future, optimistic about new discoveries but I'm sure there's something more here to this intense placement I'm sure of yet...


-your co-significator = the Moon of the event chart
Moon Exalted, in Taurus! Disposited by Venus! (It's a beautification/correction procedure so it's great!) In the 12th House - may be ok, because it's going to be in a Dr. office/medical environment. (Not sure about this and hope it's not 'self-undoing' and literally negative.


-use the place of the Part of Operations
I'll have to come back to this

-use place of the Lot of Realization of Needs&Desires
Same

-the doctor performing the procedure = lord of the 7th house of the event chart
Jupiter in Aries, 11th House, Succeedent. He would have nocturnal triplicity, but here the procedure is in the a.m. He doesn't even have term. What does this tell me about him? He's not even interested in what he's doing? He's a dr. with some really good reviews. I'm not understanding this. *I'll also have to look more at how Jup. in Aries (as a dr. specifically would act....)

-I would additionally advise consulting indications of the Mansion of the Moon for the place of the Moon on that date and time
I'm not sure what that entails, but I'll research it more asap.

[dr. farr]

(Following may contain statements which are controversial in conventional astrological delineation)

I think you have done an excellent delineation of the event chart!

Some observations (to add to your own which you posted above)

-the Moon is not VOC which is very auspicious

-the Part of Operations falls 5 Cancer, in the succedent (= +) 2nd house, in the fertile soothing and healing (watery) sign of Cancer, disposited by the Moon; the Moon is in its exaltation sign of Taurus, itself disposited by the universal beauty significator, Venus; note that the Part of Operations and the Part of Fortune are in partile semi-sextile, an auspicious affinity; that the Moon is in the 12th house I believe only shows the "institutional" setting of the operation, as you yourself noted, above

-@ 5 Cancer the Part of Operations is longitudinally conjuct Dirah, a constructive star of Mercury/Venus qualities which gives "...energy, force and protection..." (Robson)

-the Lot of Realization of Needs&Desires falls in the succedent (= +) 5th house @ 21 Libra: note that this Lot is disposited by Venus (just as the Moon is) and that this Lot is in the "house of pleasure"-what more of an indication do you want that you will be "pleased" (derive "pleasure" from) the results? But you say, Saturn is also in this house and sign! Yes, but notice that Saturn retro's AWAY from the Lot (= any malefic influences are seperating, going away from, the Lot, not toward it)

-your Part of Fortune @ 6 Leo is in an elevated degree-cannot ask for better than this (unless it were Cazimi); the POF is disposited by the Sun, which is at the top of the chart in the whole sign 10th house of successes, glory, advancement, etc

-the Dr (Jupiter) is accidentally dignified by being succedent and in the house of friends and the Good Spirit (11th house) Further, Jupiter is in its House of Joy (according to the ancients, which is the 11th house) You (Mercury) flow toward the Dr (Jupiter) and furthermore you are disposited by the Dr (Jupiter) which = + testimony

-the Dr. (Jupiter) is disposited by Mars (and of course Mars is a universal significator for surgeons and mechanical/surgical/maniupulative actions/treatments)
a) Mars is slightly more than 7 degrees from the Sun and therefore is not combust (ancients such as Firmicus Maternus took combustion for Mars beginning around 7 degrees from Sun; later authors-and the Ankara tradition- gave 6 degrees, others extended combustion for all planets to 8.5 degrees from Sun: the question of combustion orb is by no means a settled one, historically considered)
b) Mars is accidentally dignified by being in the pivotal (angular) 10th house of success, honors and advancement
c) Mars and the Dr. (Jupiter) are in mutual reception = strong + testimony
d) the next aspect the Moon (your co-significator, and also the significator of the Part of Operations) will perfect, is a sextile to Mars = very + testimony
e) both Mars and the Part of Fortune are mutually disposited by the Sun, the Sun itself being at the top of the chart in the angular 10th house of success, honors and advancements

Venus-dispositor of your co-significator (Moon) and of the Lot of Realization of Needs & Desires, is applying to a sextile with the Dr (with Jupiter) This highly auspicious Venus/Jupiter sextile will perfect on March 10th! What about the Moon square Venus aspect? It is seperating, and therefore is of no consequence-we want to know what the oncoming influences are, not what has passed off...

The indications shown in this event chart I consider to be very favorable for the + outcome of the anticipated procedure!

(Note: on a more esoteric level, the Moon is posited in the 4th of the "fixed" Lunar Mansions, which Mansion is beneficial for "...the destruction of hindrances"... which might be appropriate-in some way-to the procedure you will be undergoing...)