Abuse.

[Rubella]

Where in the chart can you find indicators of abuse?
Be it violence, verbal, sexual, childhood, past lives... anything.
It's important to me.

I heard 135 degrees angles are indicators.

Ideas would be most welcome.

[freedomlover]

You might want to take a look at my chart for a case study in abuse. My mother and grandmother were emotionally and verbally abusive, and sometimes physically. I had an uncle who lived with us who sexually molested me beginning as a very small child ( around 3). My first husband was emotionally, verbally, mentally, and physically abusive. My second husband was emotionally, verbally, physically, and sexually abusive.

No wonder I have such walls when it comes to relationships!

Anyway, I have Uranus/Pluto conjunct in Virgo in the 8th opposing Saturn and Chiron in Pisces in the 2nd.

[Rubella]

You might want to take a look at my chart for a case study in abuse. My mother and grandmother were emotionally and verbally abusive, and sometimes physically. I had an uncle who lived with us who sexually molested me beginning as a very small child ( around 3). My first husband was emotionally, verbally, mentally, and physically abusive. My second husband was emotionally, verbally, physically, and sexually abusive.

No wonder I have such walls when it comes to relationships!

Anyway, I have Uranus/Pluto conjunct in Virgo in the 8th opposing Saturn and Chiron in Pisces in the 2nd.

Oh my god!
I just want to hold you in my arms and rock you to sleep.

I asked because I want to know if I have any indicators, trying to figure out stuff in my past.

[freedomlover]

Thanks for the sympathy, but I didn't post this info for the sympathy. I just thought that my chart would be a good case study, as it had a lot of planetary action in the houses that Shining Ray quoted as being significant indicators of abuse.

[Rubella]

Thanks for the sympathy, but I didn't post this info for the sympathy. I just thought that my chart would be a good case study, as it had a lot of planetary action in the houses that Shining Ray quoted as being significant indicators of abuse.

I'll definately look at it, thank you :)

[Rubella]

I also have a Yod... Pluto, Neptune and Mars.

He's full of scorpio that one, and 12th house placements... and an 8th.
Seems right.

[freedomlover]

Shining Ray,

Thank you for a very moving informative, and yes, hard-to-get-through chart. Do you say that is the astrologer, Jeff Green's? What significators did you find in my chart? I don't think mine are the same as his, except maybe the Uranus in the 8th?

[virgo96019]

Hi! hopefully i won't have 2 posts here, i don't know what happened to the first one i wrote, it disappeared, must be merc! Anyway, I was a physically and emotionally abused child. my mother has mental illness, evil would be a soft word to describe her. she was abused by her father, who i think traumatized her. she is pisces sun, gemini moon, cancer asc.. she has put me in the hospital, and i was sent to foster care twice. I have a 4th house stellium in virgo, moon 10 deg 30, sun, 18 deg 14, sn 21 deg 13 and my little friend pluto 24 deg 41. pluto has a tight square to mars in 7, squares my asc, and ssqdr saturn rx in 11. Uranus is in my 5th house and is 9 deg. from pluto and the only aspect uranus makes in my chart is a conj. with jupiter. I have a 6 planet stellium in 4 and 5, plus sn, makes for some pretty heavy transits! I have found that pluto plays a big role in abuse and so does virgo. My husband can be verbally abusive, he has his venus in virgo in 3, but thats ok! i know how to handle him! I have been following a pattern with him, pluto is now transiting my 7th house and is conj. my natal mars, and squaring just about every planet in my 4th house including my natal pluto. It seems everytime the moon blows through that pluto-mars conj. all hell breaks through around here and he gets down right mean, then he acts like nothing ever happened. I feel lousy for about 2 days until the moon moves to 8 then it's over. I think my is libra stellium in 5 is saving me, you'd think i would have learned from mom to be abusive, but it is quite the opposite. I can be overly demanding i'll admit it, and want things my way, and yell about this and that, but i am not abusive to my children or anyone else....except maybe myself. childhood abuse lasts an entire lifetime, i know will never get over the resentment i have toward my mother and father, I will be ******* up for the rest of my life, but i have decided to break this family pattern, and use pluto to my advantage. i would just die if my kids felt like i do or if they spent their entire lives hating me. It's gotta stop somewhere! Thanks for starting this thread so i could vent:D feeling much better now!
virgo

[Frisiangal]

Here is a chart of a man who was abused I found it on the web it was with the all the trauma information I posted.

Here is the chart below, I have to warn you it is very upsetting to read. By Jeff Green.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7127/abusechartki8.gif (http://imageshack.us)


[QUOTE]
When this man was a child he inwardly detached from his body and immediate environment as a survival function. He developed a life of total fantasy and illusion considered as reality. He blocked the body from all sensation. He was "visited" in the dark of the night by an "angel" called Mary whom he considered his real "mother" because this angel provided comfort and nourishment. He longed for the dark of the night, he feared the days when his mother was alone with him............

.......Because he learned to survive through detaching from his body and environment, through living in his inner world, he became a loner as he grew. Acutely shy and sensitive, he felt alienated from his peers and the world. The memories of childhood were blocked, suppressed within the unconscious anima......

He shunned normal relationships with women, and the few that he engaged in were based on women who would aggressively pursue him. These women were "femme fatal" types who repeated the patterns of his mother: violations of trust, abandonment, betrayal, and abuse. Because the memories of his mother, the initial trauma, were suppressed......

..... Beyond the sexual abuse that this pattern demonstrates, the psychological abuse (Uranus in the 8th House) created an extremely inferior self-image (Moon in Pisces in the Fourth House). This image was built upon messages that there must be something wrong with him, that he was "nothing", that he deserved pain and punishment even though he did not know why .....His inner compensation through fantasy and spiritual development allowed him to experience himself in a larger than life type way, but the subjective personality or ego (Moon in Pisces) was fractured, diffuse, and not integrated: it was weak and inferior. The emotional infantile wanted .......to please others in order for some sense of personal approval to be given. When this combined with the unconscious anima which was defined by "there must be something wrong with me", an emotional masochist was produced who had no inner or outer sense of boundaries.....

The emotional trauma of childhood finally became unblocked in his forty-fourth year. At this point he was married to what he was sure was his soul mate: .......... the angel Mary who offered relief from his suffering, and the actual mother who created it within him in the first place. ..... She abandoned him and his children (from a previous marriage) through behavior and actions that could only be judged as evil and sadistic.



For anyone interested, this description is what I strongly associate with the position of Black Moon Lilith,; the separating from reality and creating and retreating into an inner world. I suspected a link with Pisces and the 8th house.
The subject's BML is on 19* Scorpio trine Moon in Pisces and quincunx Uranus in the 8th house!


As an aside, individuals who have Mars in opposition to Pluto often have what psychologists call "split personalities", or the Dr. Jeckel/Mr. Hyde syndrome.

Copyright prevents me from producing birth data and charts, but I did a study of BML in the natal and 12 other charts of a Libra Sun woman born in the autumn of 1939 who withdrew into herself and developed 12 sub-personalities as a means of survival against emotional, verbal and sexual abuse from/by the mother since babyhood. She has an exact degree Mars-Pluto opposition.
BML is in her 4th house in Pisces, close sextile Saturn and quincunx Pluto. In almost all cases, the BML of her sub-personality that took over was aspected to the role it played; e.g. BML-Moon = child, BML-Mars= aggressor, BML-Jupiter= teacher, BML-Neptune = love of God, BML-Pluto= murderer (killing effigy of mother). BML and Uranus were also aspected more times than would have been expected in transit, when separation into a new identity occured.

F.

[Rubella]

Frisiangal,

Are all black moon lilith aspects so potent?
I have it in the 9th house, cancer.
Aspects: Opposition Uranus, Square Venus, Sextile Sun.

What do you make of it?

And do you think a 150 angle between mars and pluto is a more internal one?

[Arian Maverick]

And do you think a 150 angle between mars and pluto is a more internal one?

I have this aspect as well between my third house Mars in Gemini and eighth house Pluto in Scorpio.

Here is a description of Mars quincunx Pluto (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/mars-quincunx-pluto.php) from the main site:

Astrology aspects - Mars quincunx Pluto

The inconjunct from Mars to Pluto shows that you are overly responsive to demands by your environment or by the people in your daily life. You may wonder whether others think of you as a workhorse to be driven at their pleasure. Your compulsiveness in taking on more tasks than you can safely handle results in depleted energy. You are driven by the ever-present thought that there is so much to do and so little time in which to do it. In fact, you are persecuting yourself.

Although your sexual needs are considerable, you may encounter problems in satisfying them. Sex depletes your energy to an unusual extent, so moderation is advised. Make sure you get proper nutrition to help conserve your energy and give you a necessary sense of well-being.

When events don't proceed as you had expected, you tend to feel guilty and to punish yourself unnecessarily. You may become arrogant and bad-tempered because you seem to carry a greater burden than others do. Financial stress can cause you to become overly anxious, especially when others involved seem so casual about it.

It is important that you establish priorities in the matters that require your attention. Learn to manage your time more efficienly and to put aside matters that can be safely postponed. Learn how to just waste time occasionally, and give yourself a chance to simply relax. In time you will realize that you're an important person too. If you will become a but more selfish about giving of yourself, your friends will be amazed at the change in you. They will also secretly admire you for your new-found courage to say 'no'.

Arian Maverick

[Frisiangal]

Frisiangal,

[QUOTE]
Are all black moon lilith aspects so potent?


Hi Rubella,
After 7 years of studying hundreds of charts, I would say yes. But, as you can see in the Jeff Green example ( don't know if it was actually HIS chart?),
astrologers apply what I believe to be its focus, its point, to a planet. Yet, imho there is a strong difference between what IS... external reality as manifested existence.... and what inwardly feels to be and takes on an internal existance (BML) that may or may not bear any resemblance to reality. The physical abuse the subject underwent WAS real, as per the planets, yet the angel who took on the role of real mother and gave nourishment, the detachment from the body for survival, the "I am nothing", the feeling sensation of non-existence, of rejection, alienation and abandonment, were internal experiences and are but several of many aspects that I have come across time and time again when observing the effect of BML, especially when the water signs are present and created imaginational fantasy supercedes reality.
But don't misunderstand me; BML is not wrong in a person; but trying to show that which is right about them that too often lies dormant. BML ,as what I refer to as 'first nature instinct', can create action, thoughts, and feelings just waiting to be expressed in the outer world, it's greatest opponent being Saturn!



I have it in the 9th house, cancer.
Aspects: Opposition Uranus, Square Venus, Sextile Sun.

What do you make of it?


I use max. 6 degrees for major aspects, 4 degrees for sextiles, 3 degr. for quincunx.
Your Sun does not aspect BML and I think you may have meant Neptune rather than Uranus. BML as an opposition to Neptune would be too wide on its own, but Neptune is square the Mercury-Jupiter conjunction. Quite possibly, you could consider Neptune's effects as those of BML.

BML in Cancer, as expansively explained in a Saturn thread elsewhere, is a classic for 'the child within ' that never really existed as it wished, and non-expression of one's true feelings. You might think of this as your Moon in Capricorn. But the latter's feelings express themselves through a self-protective wall, a hardening towards what life exposes through other people's actions. What does every child long for ? To feel nurtured, cared for, embraced by a doting mother ? And if for whatever reason this is lacking in one's small life ? BML hides all the feelings it has inside because it cares so much. It turns off or turns away from feeling as a manner of survival to combat the emotional rejection it experiences. It may even reject the prospect of motherhood. The harsh aspects it makes to Mercury-Jupiter could be indicative of what is physically experienced but never spoken of (Mercury). Who would ever believe what was said, anyway(Jupiter)? Better to stay quiet and accept the blame.
There is an actively imaginitative (BML) and creative quick mind (Mercury) that may never have seen the light of day because of a lack of self confidence (Jupiter). Good that such a someone has a Sun in Aries that is willing to take the necessary intitiative to overcome its deficiencies. ;)


And do you think a 150 angle between mars and pluto is a more internal one?

I think it is both external, as physical act, and internal as emotional trauma towards it. You use Koch and this places Pluto in the 1st house of physical body, with Mars in the 8th house that internalises the anger and aggression. The ability to speak out (Gemini) is there but it has to be utilised, which only you can do. I don't know if Placidus would provide the same house cusps.
I think we have spoken before of a need to take back the power within these planets into yourself, rather than always setting yourself up to incur their viciousness from sources outside yourself.

F.

[Frisiangal]

Shining Ray.
I thought your example from Jeff Green in this and the other thread very educational. Are they taken from a book that you can transcribe onto the forum sites, or are they available through a website? If the latter, would you be kind enough to pass on the website address.

Many thanks.

F.

[Rubella]

[quote=Rubella]Frisiangal,




I use max. 6 degrees for major aspects, 4 degrees for sextiles, 3 degr. for quincunx.
Your Sun does not aspect BML and I think you may have meant Neptune rather than Uranus. BML as an opposition to Neptune would be too wide on its own, but Neptune is square the Mercury-Jupiter conjunction. Quite possibly, you could consider Neptune's effects as those of BML.

BML in Cancer, as expansively explained in a Saturn thread elsewhere, is a classic for 'the child within ' that never really existed as it wished, and non-expression of one's true feelings. You might think of this as your Moon in Capricorn. But the latter's feelings express themselves through a self-protective wall, a hardening towards what life exposes through other people's actions. What does every child long for ? To feel nurtured, cared for, embraced by a doting mother ? And if for whatever reason this is lacking in one's small life ? BML hides all the feelings it has inside because it cares so much. It turns off or turns away from feeling as a manner of survival to combat the emotional rejection it experiences. It may even reject the prospect of motherhood. The harsh aspects it makes to Mercury-Jupiter could be indicative of what is physically experienced but never spoken of (Mercury). Who would ever believe what was said, anyway(Jupiter)? Better to stay quiet and accept the blame.
There is an actively imaginitative (BML) and creative quick mind (Mercury) that may never have seen the light of day because of a lack of self confidence (Jupiter). Good that such a someone has a Sun in Aries that is willing to take the necessary intitiative to overcome its deficiencies. ;)




Thank you for all your wise words!
I never noticed Lilith that much before.

Actually, the Lilith position in the chart is not the BML, I checked it in professional softwares as well. It's the position I mentioned earlier, cancer, 9th house, 0'01 degrees.

[MichelleAnderson]

This is a really tough subject to discuss. Thankfully there are some people around here who feel comfortable with being so open. I'm glad that I've been able to learn so much here. Thank you!

[Frisiangal]

[QUOTE]
Actually, the Lilith position in the chart is not the BML, I checked it in professional softwares as well. It's the position I mentioned earlier, cancer, 9th house, 0'01 degrees.


Any chart provided through astro.com, as with yours, gives the position of MEAN BML. Some software programmes give the position of TRUE BML, or even both. Their positions can differ by as much as 25 degrees because TRUE BML is given retrograde motion, whilst MEAN BML is only direct. There are astrologers who swear by the accuracy of TRUE BML, although I have never seen it work in the same manner, within days, as does MEAN BML.

Michelle quote:

This is a really tough subject to discuss. Thankfully there are some people around here who feel comfortable with being so open. I'm glad that I've been able to learn so much here.


My sentiments exactly. Maybe it's the anonyminity that helps people finally get things off their chest and out of their system in a way they wouldn't otherwise do 'in public'. It can help their healing process as no other, whilst astrologers get a brand of first hand examples that beats any theory written in a book.

F.

[MichelleAnderson]

[quote=Rubella]
My sentiments exactly. Maybe it's the anonyminity that helps people finally get things off their chest and out of their system in a way they wouldn't otherwise do 'in public'. It can help their healing process as no other, whilst astrologers get a brand of first hand examples that beats any theory written in a book.

F.

You may very well be right. It is so easy to remain anonymous online and to be able to seek out astrology advice while still remaining anonymous is a double blessing. I never thought of it that way. Thanks for enlightening me!

[rahu]

the primary symbols for abuse are saturn,pluto,chiron,mars.
conjunctions, square,oppositions ,semisquare and sesquiquadrates are the primary aspects.also the midpoints of these aspects are just as potent .one looks for these elements aspected to venus,mars and sun ,primarily.as a survivor i have looked at this quite a bit.i would be glad to illustrate,if anyone wants to submit a date.publically or privately.
rahu

[Rubella]

the primary symbols for abuse are saturn,pluto,chiron,mars.
conjunctions, square,oppositions ,semisquare and sesquiquadrates are the primary aspects.also the midpoints of these aspects are just as potent .one looks for these elements aspected to venus,mars and sun ,primarily.as a survivor i have looked at this quite a bit.i would be glad to illustrate,if anyone wants to submit a date.publically or privately.
rahu

You mean birth date?

20/4/1987, 17:40, Ramat Gan, Israel.
The chart's also in my signature.

[rahu]

hi rubella,1234556789

[Rubella]

hi rubella,
i'm just going to emphacize the abusive aspect and not go in to your chart in a balanced manner,so it will seem at bit negative.
the first obvious sign is your saturn opposition to chiron,one of the prime aspects of abuse.then your venus/chiron midpooint is opposed to pluto.another major sign.your pluto/mars midpoint is opposed to the sun/saturn midpoint and square to the sun/chiron midpoint.
your venus/sun midpoint is conjunct your mercury and jupiter which isn't by itself a sign of abuse,but it indicates that the abuse was begun early in your life and was probably endemic to your early environment,i.e. it was passively condoned by the family unit.the jupiter indicates uncles or older family friends.the saturn and mars connections indicate father or authority figures.the mars/pluto can indicate that there was physical as well as sexual abuse.the mercury and jupiter indicate that you were also psychologically
abused into acceptances.
rahu

There was definate verbal and psychological abuse. The sexual abuse is something I am unsure about... one of the mysteries. I suspected uncles or distant family members, so what you're saying definately fits.
No violent abuse though.

[rahu]

hi rubella,
the memory is fickle.i have a history i can't remember,but the psychological traits i have worked out ,have made it clear.
also,looking at your chart ,transit wise ,you are currently under a similar vib[abusive] vib now.this is not a good time to confront anyone about this potentiality.one of many psychological trait you may have to work on is resentment.
rahu

[Rubella]

hi rubella,
the memory is fickle.i have a history i can't remember,but the psychological traits i have worked out ,have made it clear.
also,looking at your chart ,transit wise ,you are currently under a similar vib[abusive] vib now.this is not a good time to confront anyone about this potentiality.one of many psychological trait you may have to work on is resentment.
rahu

Resentment is a HUGE issue for me.
You're very right.

I just have no idea how you get rid of it.

Thanks :)

[rahu]

resentment is a tough one.for all a thing i know ,i haven't completely dealt with it either but it does haunt me as much as it did once.
the first way to approach resentment ,is to realize that abuse is a cultural trait.it is passed from abuser to abuser through the generations.so if you resent your abuser,you have to resent the abuser who abused the abuser.abusers have themselves been abused.so where to you stop resenting on the train of abuse.to not let go of resentment means the abuser is still abusing you,by making you waste you mental and emotional enrgies on a situation you can change.you must realize you must go on.a focus of abuse is to degrade and retard you in your life.overwhelming resentment keeps your in the grip of the abuser mind.if there are things you can do for grievance then do them,but if not you must save your enrgies to focus on your life,not the past.
rahu

[Frisiangal]

[QUOTE]the first way to approach resentment ,is to realize that abuse is a cultural trait.it is passed from abuser to abuser through the generations.so if you resent your abuser,you have to resent the abuser who abused the abuser.abusers have themselves been abused.so where to you stop resenting on the train of abuse.

So VERY true. Having undergone specific forms of physical, mental and emotional abuse myself, it was finally through astrology (which is just conscious psychology in some ways:) ), and understanding the WHY on the abusers' parts, that enabled me to accept, change my ideas about a situation and, yes, finally forgive and let go. The 'release', the 'weight off my mind' experienced was like floating.

F.

[VenusInAries]

Hi,

I also thought I would give you my chart info if you like to help with any studies. My birth info is 05/09/1969 Tucson AZ 4:57 pm. I was abandoned as a baby, spent most of my life being tossed from one relatives home to the next always feeling that I did not belong to the people that brought me into this world. LOL much like I was found under a rock. And it was almost like they sensed I did not belong not sure. I was sexually abused in a very horrific way by my father, also my uncle, my grandfather, my step-father, well pretty much every male in my family. I was gang rapped at age 11 by boys at school. One of the uncles of the boy came to apologize to me when his nephew told him what happened only to trap me in his car and try to rape me. My mother when I finally met her at age 12 beat me to a bloody pulp everyday and told me she hated me and wish I was never born. Growing up my grandmother knew of the abuse and told me that was something girls just have to deal with so no protection was offered. Not help when I would be laying on the floor curled up in a ball, bleeding out chunks of meat unable to stand. But let me say this if I may. For the first part of my life I did the whole pisces moon feeling sorry for myself, why did this happen to me etc. For me personally and others my disagree that's what makes this a beautiful world no? But for me I'm not sure if I was brought into this world to be an outlet for others pain and anger and hurt. I have often wondered...perhaps that's why my energy came into being.. Everytime I try to interject my ego into the world I hit a brickwall. I have mastered the art of being a fluttery little social butterfly / chameleon. I land just long enough to let others seem to work out whatever it is they are working out. I seem to psychically pick up without thought to it exactly what it is they are needing and I "chamele" or morph whatever you would like to call it into what it is they need. To carry the burden or be an outlet for their pain and anger. Then it does seem to always change them in some dramatic way or another (perhaps my venus chiron conjunct..a flutterfly little wounded healer?, but one who never gets healed) then I flutter off to the next morph. I could not really tell you who I am. I am whatever my surroundings are, whoever I am with. Until that energy or that lesson, or the reason for our paths to cross have come full circle. I have succumbed to the fact that I do not really truly exist in how some may think they exist, really that's only ego. Say if someone were to kill me, then perhaps that is what they needed to wake up, to change, to heal, etc. But I don't believe I am in the life this go around as someone that's in individual, that has needs of my own, but here to be what others need. So I am whoever I am at the moment, but the pain in my life, yes horrific, is what it is and cannot be changed. I do not carry anger anymore with this. Is lack of ego bad? Not really sure, but I find it less painful then hitting that brickwall whenever I try to push it out there in the world. Do I abuse others, never, am I antisocial or have criminal like behavior, no. I am terrified to litter or to kill a bug out of fear of karma. I try my best to be a good person. To give of myself freely and love those that especially seem to need it the most. Do I have my issues because of the abuse yes. But I try to let go to the here and now, and let things be how they are. My favorite buddhist saying is "What is..is".. I offered these insights to help with my chart, not everyone is black and white, not everyone abused responds the same. But I have had severe abuse in my life and if you would like to gather charts to learn I thought possible I could assist with this as well as those others that have shared too. Thank you

[wilsontc]

Venus,

You asked:
...I'm not sure if I was brought into this world to be an outlet for others pain and anger and hurt. I have often wondered...perhaps that's why my energy came into being...I am whatever my surroundings are, whoever I am with...

When we are children, we experience our energies directly, since we have little or no ability to control the flow of our energies or use them. And so, if we have challenging energies in us, this can tend to draw challenging circumstances to us. In your chart you have Libra (relationships) modifying Uranus (friends, also rebellion) conjunct (energy is combined with) Virgo (daily work) modifying South node (the past) conjunct Jupiter (expansion) conjunct Pluto (transformation, also sex, control) focused in the 12th house (spirituality, also deception, confusion) square (energy needs to be combined with) Mars (being, also action, anger) focused in the 2nd house (physical). The result was a daily past filled with angry, expansive, rebellious, sexual deception from those around you.

Being a Buddhist, you understand "attachment"...well, with all that energy attached to your South node, you are "attached" to your past: you tend to think that everything that happened as a child defines who you are as an adult. The challenge is to let GO of the child memories...and live life as an adult. While you COULDN'T do anything about your life as a child you CAN do things about your life as an adult. But not by being a doormat to others. While your South node is focused in confusion (12th house), your North node (future goals) is focused in the 6th house (daily work). Working at things, putting one foot in front of the other, doing things because they serve others in their best interests by helping them being wiser, better, nicer, etc. Being a doormat doesn't help you do your routines...it just enables people to indulge in their evil side.

"When I was a child, I thought as a child. Now that I am an adult, I have put away childish things." These are spiritual words to LIVE by. And, it is possible that all this is nothing new...you have made your peace with your past, decided not to be a doormat to others, and are a strong, confident person. If not, just remembert that Venus (relationships) in Aries (being, also action) is the sign of the CONQUEROR in relationships...be sure to USE your energy for YOU...don't give it away to others.

That is the biggest challenge with strong power in our charts...it can seem so challenging to us that we get in the habit of giving away our power to others, instead of learning how to use it ourselves. You have GREAT power in you, which, now you are an adult, you can use to help build the future you deserve.

Powerfully,

Tim

[VenusInAries]

Well said words. And yes what has happened in my childhood is done and gone. Waters under the bridge as they say or tears that have long been cried and dried up. The here and now is where I live, because it's the only thing that really exists..this moment..right here..right now..

Yes I understand the views of being someones doormat, and I think to succumb to anothers anger or issues without consciousness of it, and what they are working out and why I was brought into the interaction is being a doormat. It only serves to keep circling around ...unfullfilled and unfinished... as the unconciousness tries to be heard..repeating and repeating.

But I don't think everyone is here to be "someone", to be an individual. When the aries tries to fight for "myself" I only hit a brickwall. Don't forget the chiron there. Through experience I find I have a healing affect on others; and yes at my "own" expense. If you were to look at my being as something I own. But if I use that aries energy to stay strong, to take each step forward knowing I'm truly just an illusion in this world and nothing more, I can continue to experience what I have experienced yet still give out love and understanding. Using that strength to let chiron heal others and still carry the weight of my own pain I cannot heal. Aries helps me to keep taking those steps each day.

I once had a dream with an unusual experience upon awakening. I was dreaming that I was dreaming; and the dream inside the dream I learned that everything was make believe; if we believe it..we make it..I woke up laughing.. realizing I was laying with a make believe body on a make believe bed surrounded by make believe walls..in the laughter tears started rolling down my face..and there was a strange sensation of the room disappearing around me, and my body was disengrating, it almost gave me the impression of what it must feel like to be toothpaste being squeezed from a tube..it was like my disolvement was being squeezed out into nothingness..and I jerked back scared..and found myself again in my make believe world. To live in this world takes strength.

I am not a doormat, but I guess the definition or label like so many other things we label out there is up for interpertation. I'm an energy that gives my self freely to what others need. Forgiveness needs no reason; it's an act of compassion and given because the other needs it. I let myself be what others need, full of love and ready to leave when the healing is done, already forgiving them before the pain was ever felt.

Neptune in the 2nd house of self worth....pisces moon..venus in chiron and north node in the house of service... I think I am fullfilling my routine here on this Earth this go around.

Thank you for the loving words Wilson; and sage advice.

[MichelleAnderson]

I can't believe how many of us are actually seeing these traits in the people in our lives and that these traits are truly aligning themselves properly with astrology. I guess I shouldn't be surprised but I am.

[Frisiangal]

I just want to say that, as a very Earthy-Air temperament, I have seldom been so moved by posts as those written by VenusInAries. I wondered about family genetics playing their role in her abuse and if this earthly fact has taken away all essence of Self. If not, her chart should be intepretted at a level with which most of we earthbound mortals would experience difficulty; the soul level and the meaning behind a 6th house NN in Pisces.

I feel humbled.

F.

[VenusInAries]

Thank you but again I'm only me and my views are only what they are for the moment, right here and now. But other's have different views because the world looks different in everyone's eyes.

But I do wonder about lack of self at times yes. The abuse started when I can remember age 2 so I don't believe the self was truly ever able to establish itself. I also with an 8 degree orb have Neptune opposing my Sun in my Natal and currently going thru a transit of Neptune square my Sun, so I am sure all factors in how my view is being formed.

I have a friend on here who we have shared open and honest talks about self and he thought with the abuse and my ability to share openly about it might help with those wanting to gather information for astrologically learning. But I do think the human aspects we all share on this forum are wonderful. I learn so much from others.

[freedomlover]

""But I do wonder about lack of self at times yes. The abuse started when I can remember age 2 so I don't believe the self was truly ever able to establish itself. ""
[quoting Venusin Aries]

I was really drawn to that statement. My abuse started around the same time- 2 or 3. I have had such a terrible time with knowing who I am. I have spent the past several years feeling like Humpty-Dumpty, and trying to put myself back together. This started when the memories of the abuse started surfacing. I didn't have all of the different abusers, as VenusinAries did, just one uncle that I know of. (Some vague memory of another uncle, too.) However, I did have a husband, who was abusive sexually, so I felt like I was raped nearly everyday for 9 years. It was a control thing for him, I think, but it was torture for me. By the time I was finally able to leave that marriage, I was nearly psychotic.

[sara31tx]

I am the second of 5 children. I was the only one that was abused. My mother verbally abused me and she could be physical at times. I was also abused by a aunt that my parent's made us live with while they worked. She verbally and physically abused me. I was also molested by 2 uncles. I have always had a problem with men trying to take advantage of me. Now that I am older this does not happen anymore because I have shyed away from talking to men. I grew up being scared of men. I will attach my chart , so that viewers might find a link in a persons natal chart that might show signs of abuse.

[Neptune Rising]

I natally have Saturn square Pluto, and Saturn square Chiron. I think i experienced the effects of this just over 10 years ago when I stayed in an physically/emotionally abusive relationship for a few years. I think the transit that may have triggered it was transiting Chiron square natal Saturn. Transiting Saturn was conjuncting natal Moon/trining natal Saturn also.

I have transiting Pluto conjunct natal Mars at the moment (for quite a long moment!). I've learned to take this power into myself and not give it over to others, otherwise there are certainly many others more than willing to take it for me.

NR

[rahu]

hi sara,
your T square with saturn square the moon opposed to the jupiter/chiron conjunction correlates to the abuse by your mother and aunt.the jupiter adds the element of a generational pattern of abuse.you have a sun conjunct to the venus/chiron midpoint which are square to mars,this shows physical/sexual abuse by males ,and jupiter brings in the aspect of uncles.the saturn/chiron midpoint is squatre to mercury and opposed to neptune.this shows a abusive mental environment and indicates that alcohol or drugs wer often part of the abusive environment.i would think you may have had to overcome a drug/alcohol indulgences because of this.though you may have also rejected these elements as you understood their negative effect.your saturn/mars midpoint is square to pluto which adds to the severity of the physical and sexual abuse.
you seem to have strong pyschic abilities which may have helped you cope with this difficult karma.
rahu

[rahu]

hi neptune.
your squares are fairly wide but the pluto/chiron midpoint is very close to a exact conjunction to saturn,with saturn oppoded to the neptune/venus and neptune/mercury midpoint wjile also square to the MC.
this would correlated with your abusive relationship and the neptune would possibly indicate that he had a substance abuse problem also.
your neptune rising indicates that you are also extremely psychic and probably have visions ,
rahu

[sara31tx]

hi sara,
your T square with saturn square the moon opposed to the jupiter/chiron conjunction correlates to the abuse by your mother and aunt.the jupiter adds the element of a generational pattern of abuse.you have a sun conjunct to the venus/chiron midpoint which are square to mars,this shows physical/sexual abuse by males ,and jupiter brings in the aspect of uncles.the saturn/chiron midpoint is squatre to mercury and opposed to neptune.this shows a abusive mental environment and indicates that alcohol or drugs wer often part of the abusive environment.i would think you may have had to overcome a drug/alcohol indulgences because of this.though you may have also rejected these elements as you understood their negative effect.your saturn/mars midpoint is square to pluto which adds to the severity of the physical and sexual abuse.
you seem to have strong pyschic abilities which may have helped you cope with this difficult karma.
rahuHi, Rahu
Thankyou for the reply. I have to say that I am unlike any of my siblings in that I am the only one who is spirtual. Even as a child when I was little I would ask god to send my sisters christmas presents instead of me because I knew that we were poor. I was always different then anyone I knew, In school, in order to fit in I just pretended to be someone that I was not. No one knew the real me. I started going to church when I was 8 years old and as I got older I would ask lots of questions. The people would get upset with me because I would question everything that they were saying. I tried real hard to believe alot of what they were saying but, it did not make alot of since to me. There are times in my life where I have wanted to tell people, Am I the only person in the world who gets it or are there others out there. I found out as I got older that I was not alone. I somehow know things without knowing how. For instance, One night I was laying down to go to bed and I started thinking about where my daughter's birth certificate is, then I started thinking about what if there was a fire and I had to get out would I know where it was. I laid there thinking about it and I remembered where I put it. I told myself that I was going to get all my important papers and put them all together in a folder in the morning. Then there was a knock at the door, I got up to answer the door and it was the sherriff telling us that we had to evacuate because there was a grass fire behind are house and that it has already burned 3 homes. This is just one of the many things that have happened to me. I am also able to feel what other people are feeling, I have been able to do this since I was little. I have never been wrong about a person to this day. I can always see right through a person. I am not sure how this happens, I just trust it. I sometimes get sick around them or I immediatly do not like them, even if they are really nice. My husband would get really mad at me when I told him that I did not trust that person or that I did not like them. He said that I am a negative person and that I should not judge people. I would get upset and not say anything else. The funny thing is, I would end up being right everytime. There are alot of other things that people may not believe, but It would take up to much of my time to write it all down. I also wanted to tell you that I have never been into drugs or drinking and would never want to. I have a very strong mind and I do not allow myself to become addicted to anything. If I feel like I am becoming addicted to a certain thing, I stop it. Ex.. caffeine, fast food. I think that I had to experience all these bad things in my life for a reason. I may have not been so spiritual if I had not experienced this. Thankyou again for your reply

[gaer]

I'm just adding data from my own files.

This is a painful subject, but I hope we will all learn from it.

I have not yet looked at the charts posted, which I will do after posting this…

First, a former friend, man, VERY difficult childhood. Horrible childhood. Who knows what happened before he was adopted. Father was schizophrenic, horribly abusive verbally, mother most likely as sexually abused.

Sun/Moon conjunct in 8th, Pluto close by, all in Leo, Cancer on the 8th cusp.

This does not include physical or sexual abuse.

Another woman, definite sexual abuse from father:

Sun in 3rd, Moon in 9th, weak opposition but strongly square Pluto/Saturn conjuction in the 12th. Jupiter also in the 12th, only planet in Scorpio, but Scorpio Asc.

I have much more information on alcoholism or substance abuse, but I do have a few charts of people, close to me, who have been abused, and Pluto/Mars/Uranus square/conjunct/opposition personal planets seem common, Neptune too because often there is psychological warping going on, really evil mind-games.

I'm looking at one chart with Sun/Mars/Venus conjunct in Aries in the 10th opposing Neptune in the 4th, Jupiter opposing POF. Pluto square Moon is the worst, only 27 minutes orb. Horrible abuse.

You are looking for abuse of power, domination, cruelty. It can show up anywhere, but those planets that show the potential for violence are in hard aspects. Look perhaps more often to the Sun for men (who were abused as boys), more often to the Moon for women, but there is no hard, fast rule.

I would put Pluto opposite or square Mars right at the top of the list, with my limited experience.

I can't share the full charts, because these are people I know well, and it would be a violation of friendship, but I have studied them. I want to thank all the people who shared their stories. I've learned a lot from this topic, and I have to say that I feel very lucky not having gone through such horrible treatment.

Gaer

[Shining Ray]

I have a few more charts from my folder to add to this discussion, birth details are withheld so I can't show you the charts. But the first one I have here is by a woman who was sexually abused by her mother, and the father was neglecting the family by starving them and just never being home. The mother used to walk around the house naked and the mother's boyfriend would do the same. And the daughter (this woman's chart I have) was forced to do the same. The mother wanted the daughter to have sex with her boyfriend. She was also forced to watch her mother having sex with her boyfriend. The mother even tried to come on to the daughter herself.

In her chart she has a Scorpio Midheaven (Mother rules 10th) Chiron in the 1st house in Pisces opposes Pluto (10th house ruler) and the Sun and Mercury. The Sun/Mercury/Pluto are all conjunct in the 7th house in Virgo. Mars (also co ruler of 10th) is in the 8th Libra trine the Aquarius Ascendant. Neptune in Scorpio 9th trines Chiron in 1st Pisces and Neptune squares the Aquarian Ascendant. And then there is the Venus in Cancer 6th opposed Moon/Jupiter/Saturn conjunction all in the 12th house Capricorn. Sexual Boundaries have definitely been crossed concerning authority figures in this woman's life. There has been a lack of real care. The 6th/12th axis is interesting poor Venus in Cancer in the house of servants opposed the Capricorn planets including Saturn in 12th. The authority figures have certainly set some strange rules she had to abide to. I have read about the Venus/Moon aspects showing up in charts where there can be mother daughter rivalry, but with the mother actually coming on to the daughter is very confusing, and no doubt confusing for this woman. The Moon/Saturn conjunction in 12th Capricorn, could show the lack of emotional nurturing from the mother, the controlling mother. The Moon also squares the Neptune in Scorpio.

[sara31tx]

Hi, I do not have this persons birth time, but will call his office Monday to try and get his birth time. His name is Dave Pelzer, He has written several books on the abuse he went through from his mother. His birth date is 12/29/1960. He was born in Daly City,CA.

[Caprising]

What can you tell me about this chart? I am too inexperienced to see much. Male: 4 oct 1963 12.05pm 38s08 144e21

[dylan]

I was speechless after reading here what you people have gone through. Deep down i feel so much yet really really adore the courage you all have.
You all were really great. All the best in life ! Never give up and continue helping those in need !

[Vesta13]

I'm glad someone started this thread and at the same time sad for all who suffered abuse.

A few years ago, I started a new job. One woman is into astrology and since I have an interest in it she offered to do my birth chart. That was before I knew I could do it myself on the internet.

A few days after, she came up to me and said that I was sexually abused at the age of 10! I really did not know anything about aspects and configurations or anthing like that. I was both shocked and upset because I did not think she minded her own business, in a sort of way. I felt she should have not told me something so serious without really being sure. I had not given her permission to do my chart for the purpose of finding something like that! I also felt devastated. What if she was right? I spoke with my parents which obviously did not turn out so well. They of course assured me nothing happened. But I have it in my mind that they might be lying. It hurts me to this day. I have no memories and will probably live the rest of my life wondering. If it did happen, it would answer so many questions as to why my life is such a mess.

If anyone would like to take a look at my chart, by all means go ahead. And I will not be shocked or devasted if something does come out...as this has already happened. Just would like to know some of your opinions as this board is the perfect place.

Thanks a million,
Vesta

[Vesta13]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[gaer]

I see an event chart, I think, for the 23rd of August of this year.

For this person to have made such a statement, in my opinion, is incredibly irresponsible.

If you had gone to her—the self-proclaimed astrologist—and had told HER that you had been abused AND had asked for her help, it would be a different story.

The real abuse that I see, so far, is an abuse of trust, on the part of the woman who took it upon herself to give you this "reading". This is absolutely WRONG. It is irresponsible, cruel and an invasion of your privacy. NO EXCUSE for this.

Gaer

[rahu]

hi caprising
this chart does not seem to be a abuse survivor rather a potential abuser.
this chart shows a type of individual who seems normally,socially well adjusted .with the jupiter opposed to the sun/venus midpoint ,he is good spiriited , seemingly very gregarious and a optimistic and just person.he has the qualities that make very one attracted to him and seems has a loving nature.he could be a teacher or counselor.with moon opposed to juno ,he places high value on family.
the rub her is the mars/neptune conjunction square to saturn.this gives a deceptive and ,at times, a need to physical control his environment.this can show a duplicious and scheming individual.
the potential for abusive sexual behavior is shown by the mars/neptune conjunction's midpoint with pluto.this midpoint point is conjunct the venus/sun midpoint.this can indicate that behind the nurturing,loving facade,there is malicious,obsessive,sexual complusion involved in his make up.kind of a wolf in sheep's clothing effect.
rahu

[Vesta13]

I made a mistake...i did not post my chart. I use imageshack and not sure how to use it and posted someone else's chart. I apologize....please ignore the chart dated August 23. I thought I had mananged to delete it before posting...it went through anyhow.

Vesta

[rahu]

vesta13
i'm having problems with my browser and i can't enlarge your chart,could post your birth data.thanx
rahu

oh good just saw your up date,post your correct data
rahu

[Vesta13]

Dear Rahu,

Since I'm having problems with image shack....this is my birth data.

April 27, 1969
Montreal, Canada
12h20pm

Many thanks,
Vesta

[rahu]

hi vesta,
the primary indciations of abuse are aspect to saturn.chiron and pluto and their midpoints.
your chart starts with a venus/mars midpoint on the descendant giving you a strong emotional and sexual nature.
the saturn/pluto midpoint is square to venus. this shows a strict,repressive abusive relationship with the father figure.this can reress your ablity to relate to others as it can bring self esteem problems.the sun/saturn midpoint is opposed tothe mars/pluto midpoint.this brings a physical domineering nature to the abusive environment and can indicate that you many of your relationships have be abusive.
the chiron/pluto midpoint is square to the jupiter/uranus conjunction.this indicates that there may have been systematic abuse in you childhood environment. jupiter inicates that a member of your extended family could have also been involved in your abuse,grandfather or uncle,friend of the family or even a outside authority figure .the uranus position can indicate that you were subject to a broken home or may have been adopted,or raised by a grandparent,but at anyrate ,there is much turbulences around you around your 3rd or 4th year.
with the mars/chiron midpoint conjunct your descendant,there is a possibity of rape or abuse by a male sibling or peer.
the saturn/mars midpoint square neptune can indicater that the father figure had a alcohol or substance abuse problem and alcohol may have been part of the abusive environment.
a saving grace is your mercury trine the jupiter/pluto conjunction and opposed to neptune as this can give your mind the power to heal itself in spite of the negative experieinces.
you also have strong astral powers but they are clouded.you are probably subject to vivid,prophetic, dream states , out of the body experiences or astral projection-flying dreams.it would not surprise me if you left your body during some of your abusive experiences.
i think you have probably had to work out times of extreme rage.i also think you ahve probably been prescribed medication some time because these overwhelming abusive conditions have contributed to you showing highly erratic behavior at times

rahu

[Vesta13]

Dear Rahu,

Thank you for doing this. Like I mentioned, if only I knew the truth. There are indications that strongly suggest abuse, as you confirmed, but I don't recall any of this.

My parents insist to this day that nothing ever happened but I have a feeling deep down inside that is hard to ignore. But then again, could it just be false thoughts? I heard of people going through hypnosis to try and remember and it ended up being false memories...so it's a very delicate thing to bring up.

Unfortunately, I have had to take medication since age 21, am now 38. I was always a very very shy little girl and developed phobias, anxiety, panic and depression in my early teenage years to this day.

It does happen that I experience phrophetic dreams....wish I could develop that side, but have not yet met someone I can trust that can teach me so I'm not too sure what to do with the dreams I have.

Thank you Rahu.

Vesta

[Vesta13]

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, I have to work with this witch. This has left me very angry and it has been almost 6 years. I did not have the strength at the time to tell her what I thought, as she left me in total shock. She is a disgrace for all who do the profession with professionalism.

Vesta

[lillyjgc]

Vesta13, I too would like to comment on your chart. But firstly we must all be looking at the same chart...this is very important. The chart I have drawn up for you, using placidus cusps puts 5. 06 Virgo on your ascendant...BUT as Canada has a number of time zones in it I need the correct time zone for Montreal...also, I believe daylight savings time was in operation that year...Can you please give me the time zone and DST...so I can be sure I have the correct data..Thanks, Lillyjgc

[Caprising]

Thankyou for the reply Rahu, I must add that this person did cop quite a bit of abuse as a youngster, so I have been trying to pinpoint this but don't yet know how this will show. I am making progress though, the mars/neptune conjuntion seems to work through both the 10 and 11 houses (placidus), that is deception from males, be they friends (11th) or at work(10th) (or both!) in contrast to this is the love given by females (venus and sun in lib in 10) and moon conj jupiter 4th, which overall balances out the love/hate venus/mars equation. This is an interesting chart of a male who is very perceptive, and quite willing to talk about these issues. Is anyone interested in hearing more?

[Caprising]

Vesta 13, If you have your chart progressed to now, you will find a powerful threesome of planets in your 1st house. pluto,jupiter and uranus all in virgo, to me that means nervous tension/feelings of panic/possibly enlarged by jupiters presence and to make it stronger your progressed m.c. is conjunt mercury ruler of virgo, in gemini. Opposite to this is the i.c. mars at 8 degrees sagg, now would be a great time to have mystic experiences!! Are you sure your not having memories of previous lives?

[Vesta13]

Dear Caprising,
As I mentioned to Rahu, I do have phrophetic dreams but even if I had a memory of a previous life, I probably would not know if it's just my imagination or a real memory. I have yet to come across someone to help me with this.

Thanks,
Vesta

[Vesta13]

Vesta13, I too would like to comment on your chart. But firstly we must all be looking at the same chart...this is very important. The chart I have drawn up for you, using placidus cusps puts 5. 06 Virgo on your ascendant...BUT as Canada has a number of time zones in it I need the correct time zone for Montreal...also, I believe daylight savings time was in operation that year...Can you please give me the time zone and DST...so I can be sure I have the correct data..Thanks, Lillyjgc

Dear lillyjgc,

I am Leo Rising. The montreal time zone is EST (UTC-5) Summer DST
EDT(UTC-4). Hope this helps.

[Neptune Rising]

hi neptune.
your squares are fairly wide but the pluto/chiron midpoint is very close to a exact conjunction to saturn,with saturn oppoded to the neptune/venus and neptune/mercury midpoint wjile also square to the MC.
this would correlated with your abusive relationship and the neptune would possibly indicate that he had a substance abuse problem also.
your neptune rising indicates that you are also extremely psychic and probably have visions ,
rahu

Hi Rahu,
I'm so sorry I haven't replied until now, I left this post after my post. I've only now looked at it again. Thank you for replying. This is so truewhat you say, he did abuse substances alot. Yes I also have visions, sometimes of the future, and real weird dreams, some things I just 'know', you know?

I have been wondering about these astrological natal aspects, like my Pluto/Chiron midpoint conjunct Saturn in Cancer. I am wondering what could have brought that relationship into my life, like what sort of transiting aspects could have triggered that. Or is it just 'destined' to happen because it is a natal aspect. Im also wondering, if a transit didn't trigger the abuse, then maybe it was one of his natal planets being conjunct Saturn, or the Venus/Neptune midppoint opposite Saturn.

It hasn't happened since, so hopefully something has been resolved. I do wonder though, if the natal aspects are triggered by something, is it likely to happen again..

NR

[Neptune Rising]

I thought I'd post the synastry of the guy who abused me. I don't know his correct birth time though.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5956/joandmosynastryuw2.th.gif (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=joandmosynastryuw2.gif)

I've never really studied this chart but I see some aspects that could explain things.
My Pluto/Chiron midpoint = Saturn.

His Moon square his Uranus.
His Uranus square my Saturn.
His Moon opposite my Saturn.
His Mars trine his Moon.
Also my Pluto square his Moon.

My novice opinion on these, his Moon is how he reacts to women or views women, and it just so happened to be on the opposing point to my Chiron/Pluto midpoint, with his Uranus triggering it from the natal square.

Best wishes,
NR

[rahu]

hi nr
it is difficult to calculate the midpoints,aspects etc. exactly.could you post the charts or data?
rahu

[Neptune Rising]

Hi Rahu,

Thank you. I understand totally what you mean about my chart's midpoints. I'm not sure which chart you mean for me to post though, (sorry, either Merc retro or me a bit dim at moment). I was considering what aspects my abuser had that would have interacted with mine, but I do not know his time of birth. I knew him just over 10 years ago, left him in 1997. Here is his chart:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6186/mocc3.th.gif (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mocc3.gif)

Synastry chart
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4003/joandmosynastrymp4.th.gif (http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=joandmosynastrymp4.gif)

I was pondering how my and his synastry triggered the abuse. I am glad though no two people are alike. Like a finger print, every person has a different make up, totally different charts.

Thank you, sorry if I'm not being very clear.
Best wishes
NR

[rahu]

i find the interpersonal dynamics are best described by a composite.
your composite has a mars/mercury conjunction,conjunct the venus/sun midpoint in pisces.this indicates a warm,joyous emotional/sexual relationship.but with neptune square these planets,there was deception from the beginning.neptune often clouds the imagination and emotions,making you see what you want rather than what is.at any rate the neptune while giving a very sensitive and caring tone to the relationship also can indicate that he was untruthful and unfaithful ,aspected to the mars.
venus square saturn indicates that you were devoted in your attachment and this probably contributed to not seeing through the veils.
the jupiter/moon conjunction also brings a optimistic and energizing quality to the relationship.this aspect tends toward the expectation of a steady ,longterm relationship.
with juno square to pluto,there is a aura that this rerlationship was somehow destined to be.but the pluto on the ascendant also is the first indication that the relationship would be based on control and domination.
the saturn/pluto midpoint is opposed to the moon/jupiter which clamps down on the optimism and is indicative of tyrannical powwer trips.
the saturn/chiron midpoint is square to the sun,so at it center,this chart shows a abusive and domineering streak.
all these aspects have a potential for physical abuse,but the midpoints to mars emphacize the physical /sexual abuse.
the mars/pluto midpoint is opposed to saturn and square to venus.this is a aspect of physical/sexual abuse.the physical abuse is furthur heightened by the mars/uranus midpoint squaring pluto .this is a loose square but the double midpoint of mars/uranus and pluto/chiron is conjunct pluto.this bring a extremely violent potential to the relationship.actually ,it seems you were lucky to get out of it in one piece.
i wonder if you were on the rebound when this relationship started,as there is a seemingly healing quality with the pluto/ascendant and the neptune aspects.this makes me think you may have been in a vulnerable emotional state.
rahu

[Neptune Rising]

wow thank you Rahu, that was an amazing analysis. Its all accurate. Im going to study composites more, they can tell so much.

Yes I did go into this relationship at an extremily lonley period in my life. I had split from him before, due to deception on my part, and I tracked him down to get in touch again about a year after our first split, around 1994/5. I did think it was going to be long term, but it was so hazy, the ideas we had were pure fantasy. It did have really good points. I even got pregnant by mistake but didn't continue with it because of the situation. The abuse was sporadic, physical and sexual. The very last time he threatened me, I knew this/that time it would be worse than the other times, I just sensed real danger, he said he was going to kill me. As I was backing out of our front door (with a kitchen implement to keep him away), the neighbours came up the stairs and saw me and saved me, I stayed with them. I never went back after that.

I really appreciate you looking at the composite Rahu, it does explain alot.
Thanks very much
NR

[kizmetbaby]

Okay...no one really talks about this...but in my personal research...NEGATIVE aspects between the Moon and Mars in a natal chart not only denote abuse...but will give an accurate indication of how that abuse manifests itself. I'm sure there are exceptions...but I have YET to see any. The Moon/Mars thing is like a trigger. Granted the other planets are to be considered for sure...that planetary marker is like a smoking gun.

Ida

[Andonis]

Yes you need to be careful.... You are a clever girl and you must NEVER let yourself think you deserve all this as it is NOT your fault. You must overcome and get independent to get out of this loop.
You mom has clear signs of alcoholism with her Mars right on Jupiter in 8th house, conjuct mercury. Hard aspect between Moon and Neptune! Jupiter opposite Neptune....it all adds up, and her lever may not be in good shape and she may need a check up. But you cannot tell an alcoholic to do so. You have inherited your moms Jupiter Mercury conjunction and your dads venus mercury conjunction I notice. You must have artistic flare...
but you must be careful to keep sanity and try not get depressed when things get bad. You have a sensitive immune system.
My advise is to NEVER turn yourself against yourself, be careful your dad when he dislikes you, your mother is really your friend when she is in the right shape.
Your future husband will be your good friend..... Keep fighting for yourself and NEVER give up as you have a talent and you are very clever, You should do very well at work with your 10th house strong. Keep smiling as you have a lot to give..... Hug.

[4leafclovah]

Interesting thread. I was looking over some charts of people I know. The first person I am very close to and they have moon, Pluto and Uranus conjunct in Virgo and opposing Saturn. This person went through severe mental and physical abuse as a child. The second person is someone I no longer associate with because he is a total creep. He has Mars in Taurus inconjunct Uranus in the natal, but I also noticed in the progressed chart he has Pluto/moon/Uranus conjunction(Uranus with a wide orb) similar to my other friend, but instead squaring Mars/Venus. I noticed some of these same aspects were mentioned in this thread. Maybe there is a pattern here?

[Andonis]

And how do you know if my future husband will be my good friend?? where can you see that in my horoscope??



Your Jupiter ruler of 7th is in the 11th house.
Best Wishes.

[Andonis]

Hi Vicky,
Danger of violence is normally mars opposing Uranus. You do not have this aspect but what is important is how you feel. Only you know what is really happening to you. A chart may show weaknesses and strengths but how people choose to walk through lifes chart is what matters and this is their own choice and of course when young the parents. You should look after your interests and what make you happy you must fight for them. You should not think negative and try to be positive and live your life as it is precious and be brave.
You see you do have a strong ruler of house 1. Mercury is strong cosmically and you are intelligent. You probably have talents and interests in serving groups and generally others and if this is so you must use your strengths and be who you really are…..
Try not to live on horoscopes but on real life as you are too young!
You must do studies and your sun ruler of 9th is very strong! Hey you have so much to show….. Be careful if your parents are sometimes out of control try to get help. It is not wise for me to advise you there as this is not a good place to advise and I am not qualified. But I have a girl your age and I feel your concern. Be positive, work on your strengths, be ambitious use your head, and live your life and go for it. Do not let negatives do not allow them to win you, just fight for a better future.
….wink

[Andonis]

Hi Vicky,
When a tough aspect is with you and provided school allows it you should travel abroad and go to a sunny place. That may make some difference. Reading funny novels and comedy in cinema of DVDs I find useful. I never watch depressing or violent films. Always happy and funny. It may help you but with friends and going to pleasant places in the country is often useful. And there are plenty in Sweeden. ...and youe English is great for your age!
Glad you keep your head above waters....

[mahaira]

I’ve just discovered this site and this thread. It's difficult to find the right words to describe how moved I am by it. I hope that someone is still checking it from time to time...
I don’t know where to start. Maybe by saying that astrology has helped me to find a way to talk about my fears that have lingered around me since I can remember. That’s why I’m posting my natal chart, because I’m sure that for many it will say more than I ever can.
The word “fear” is the central part, because I can’t say that I remember being physically abused. I don’t even know if it could be something from the past lives, because I do have vivid, dreams, which often have prophetic quality to them. Awake, I don’t have visions, it’s more of knowledge or awareness of certain things that are/were or will be. I can’t explain how. And it isn’t something that I can control in any sense. Sometimes it’s about really important issues and sometimes it’s about something completely irrelevant.
Anyway, I’ve always had this feeling that as a woman I had to be extra careful. I was brought up never to bring myself in the situation I cannot deal with (always had someone walk me home, almost never stayed late if that wasn’t the case, never enter the elevator with a stranger, never to hitchhike etc.) and as a child, when I’m alone, never to let in the house even the men I knew, let alone strangers. One can never be fully objective when it comes to the ones you love, but I don’t think that that my environment (my mother, aunt and grandmother; no father – never knew him, was seeing him sporadically till I was about 3) was over protective. The thing is, my mum was the real thing when it comes to precognition. She never talked about it openly; she just lived in harmony with her gift and helped everyone around her.
The only thing I really am sure of is that my step-father, who entered my life when I was 7, never abused me in any way. However, that is not the case with whatever, if anything, might have happened by the age of 6, because my memories are scarce.
So, I don’t know whether my fears are based on the past (be it childhood or past lives) or the future. I just know that they can be so debilitating sometimes, because I almost never do anything if I don’t feel comfortable with it.
Verbal abuse is something I experienced in relationships (Gemini Mars in the 7th, I guess). I ended the first one in my early twenties and was relieved. But. It was a lesson I had to learn. And still am, in a way, because my husband (Gemini/Sagittarius with Pluto opposition Mars), whom I love dearly, is verbally aggressive. I’m learning to confront him instead of retreating (Mars opposition Neptune in the 1st), to show him that what his doing is wrong. Some results are fortunately starting to show.
Is there any astrological evidence that my fears could be made real and is there a way to avoid it, by living carefully as I do? I know that sometimes, circumstances are above our control, which was once subtly indicated by the astrologer I met. She mentioned something about avoiding deserted parking lots, elevators…
I’m only a beginner in astrology, but the following aspects seem troublesome: Uranus in the 12th trine Venus in the 8th; Pluto in the 10th square Venus; Lilith in the 7th opposition Neptune; Moon square Mars; Moon square Neptune etc.
I would be very grateful for any comment, similar experience…
Living without clear memory, in fear is sometimes very difficult to bear.
Thank you.

[rahu]

hi mahaira
concerning abuse,your venus square to pluto is a primary indication.also with the pluto/vensu midpoint conjunct saturn,there is a strong possibility it involved your father.with the saturn/chiron midpoint conjunct jupiter and square the sun/uranus and moon/pluto midpoints,there is the possibility that abuse involved an uncle or grandparent.

i think your caution in general was well advised as your mars/neptune midpoint is conjunct to the saturn/pluto midpoint,definetly as aspect of unexpected dangers around you through out life.this potential danger is also indicated by the saturn/neptune midpoint square you venus.

psychically the mercury/uranus midpoint conjunct pluto can give psychic powers particularly of a cautious nature.and your moon square to neptune can shows your mother's pstchic sensitivity and your own.this aspect can give visionary states and they are often spontaneous.with the sun/saturn conjunction and the moon/neptune square,you could be subject to frightening visions.
the neptune/uranus midpoint conjunct your ascendant can also give psychic visions but at the same time it can give you mental confusion.it makes your a visionary and intelligent person but it can also amke you seem a bit scattered as you have the abilty to make grand plans that are difficult to achieve.it gives a prophectic spirit but also makes you a bit unrealistic at times.you may have a reputation of gifted but unreliable in certain ways.with lilth opposed to neptune,you have a strong spiritual side but this can also give a sense of foreboding or insecurity.with the dangerous aspects above,though, this forboding is a good thing as it has kept you out of possible harm.

rahu

[aries86]

Wow this topic is something i have been thinking about alot, and have been trying to see in my chart if there are any indications of abuse, mainly sexual abuse.. I do have many symptoms which would indicate being sexually abused, however i do have no memory of being abused, i dont think... but it is more than possible - being a young girl in this world is difficult, we are so so very often victims of abuse.

I am also a believer of past lives and I do think that perhaps my symptoms could be from past life abuse, i have scorpio south node in the second house conjunct pluto. however i feel as though there is soemthing from this life, because it truly does effect me and my relationships with men.

I am going to post my chart, i would like to see if anyone sees anything else that might indicate abuse. thank you kindly

[mahaira]

Thank you, Rahu, for your detailed answer! I had no idea how important midpoints were. Unfortunately, I do seem have so many aspects pointing to potential danger.
So, this Venus-Pluto square working through the 10th and 8th house is the main indication. I never knew my father, as I’m a love child, so to say. He had his own family and never took care of me, completely disappearing from my life when I was about 3. Maybe there was a reason why my mum erased every trace of him. I learned who he was in my early twenties (and was he surprised when I gave him a call, courtesy he never returned). Grandfather/uncles died before my birth. But it could have been someone else with this energy, I guess.
I came to think that it could also point to a strong/manipulative/domineering male figure connected to my career, that’s way I was careful in that area too, especially because at one point I did a lot of fieldwork outside urban areas.
You’re so right about frightening visions. Sometimes it’s difficult to get rid of them. And one of my strongest faults is the inability to fully focus. That’s perhaps why I have a feeling of floating, unable to find and stick to a right direction when career is concerned. And Neptune in the 1st house is not helping at all with this issue. When one lacks a sense of direction, one's easily convinced by others to do what they want.
Should I look for transits/progressions that might activate the mentioned midpoints? I'll give my best to stay alert and listen to my inner voice.

Thank you once more.

[The Ten Minute Astrologer]

The ruler of the first in the 12th is one indicator. Also the ruler in the first located in the 8th could be an early sexual encounter between the ages birth and seven years old. I have seen many Pisces rising charts who have been victimized.
The Ten Minute Astrologer