Did she lie to me all this time?

[Tarja]

Hi. I am here to ask you for help.

Well, let me make a long story short. It happens that I befriended a person who is from Washington DC. I know her since like 1 year and we talked a lot and we got close on a subject we both seemed to care about (I don't know if she was honest about it as well as I was). The subject is a personal one and that's the reason I struggled to get close to her and talk about this. Finally I managed to get in touch with her, after a few weeks of trying. There were informations, opinions, hopes and answers in between. These informations could hurt or make me happy. They made me happy and she looked happy to help me get through this problem until this December when I started to suspect she's lying with every single word, that nothing from what she said was true. I started to doubt every single word she told me. I feel like the world turned upside down for me. I still can't realise I was lied for 1 year by someone whom I considered to be honest, a person with dignity and self respect on a subject I care too much and that hurts me.


I made this chart, asking: Was A telling me the truth all this time? Please give me a hand. I used to study horary astrology but let go of it more than 2 years ago. I'd like at least to hear some opinions on this, if you can

[Olivia]

If this is one of those questions that falls into 'is the rumour true, is the advice sound?, etc. then use the following to tally up the preponderance of evidence.

If the Lord of the Ascendant, the Moon, and the Moon's dispositor (ideally, all of them) are fixed, not cadent, and in good aspect to the Sun or the benefics, the rumour is true.

If those three are cadent and afflicted by the malefics, the rumour is false, regardless of the essential dignity of the planets.

If all four angles, the Moon, and Mercury are fixed, separating from malefics, and applying to benefics, the rumour is true.

If the MC/IC axis is fixed or the Moon rules either the MC or the IC, the rumour is true.

If a benefic is in the first, but the Moon is unfortunate, the rumour is false or misleading.

If Mercury is retrograde or debilitated, the rumour is false or misleading.

If the planets to which the Moon or Mercury apply are afflicted, the rumour is false.

If the Lord of the Ascendant or the Moon is under the Sun's beams, it brings secrecy to the matter.

If the Moon is void of course or in hard aspect to Mercury, the rumour is either false, or of no import.

The Moon in 1, 3, 10, or 11, separating from an easy aspect to any planet and applying to an easy aspect of the Lord of the Ascendant says that the rumour is true.

If the Moon squares or opposes Mercury and neither is in easy aspect to the Ascendant, it argues that the rumour is false.

If the Lord of 6, 8, or 12 is in the first house, in hard aspect to the ascendant or to the ruler of the Ascendant, or if Mars or Saturn is retrograde in the 1st house, or in hard aspect to the Ascendant or the Ascendant ruler, the querent will receive damage or prejudice from the news.

Not all of these conditions will apply in all charts, so add up the ones that do apply to the chart, and see which side the balance falls on.

[Tarja]

If I'm not mistaken this is taken from Lilly's book. I know to look if Ascendant, the Moon, and the Moon's dispositor are in fixed signs for examle but I don't know how to explain me the cadent houses for example or the aspects between planets. I know astrology is not only an objective science, so reading and aplying what I understand might be so wrong if I don't have the ability to understand them from an astrologer's point of view. It's very hard for me to make me an idea about what's there in my chart regarding now how horrible I feel about this

[Olivia]

I redid your chart in my programme, just to make it a bit easier to see - yours is pretty faded, and it's hard on old eyes. Is it that you don't know what an aspect or a cadent house is that's the problem?

Anyway, here we go:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj152/deevajust/didshelie.png

[Tarja]

the problem is the whole chart. I can't put together all the aspects. I don't have that ability to explain them to myself. I need to have at least one opinion, objectively, on all this, from someone outside my problem, from a third eye. I am being highly subjective and what happened turned upside down an important part of my private life.

[Olivia]

You have the South Node in the first house, which is a big argument of falsity or damage right there, but let's look at the rest of it.

Moon is in Scorpio, its detriment, in 5. Moon's dispositor, Mars, is in Sag in 7, and Mercury is in Capricorn in 7. Nothing's cadent.

If the Lord of the Ascendant, the Moon, and the Moon's dispositor (ideally, all of them) are fixed, not cadent, and in good aspect to the Sun or the benefics, the rumour is true.

Nothing cadent, Mercury is cardinal, Moon is fixed. Mars, the Moon's dispositor, is mutable, and separates from a square to Jupiter from the place of Jupiter's detriment - this is a minor argument for falsity.

If those three are cadent and afflicted by the malefics, the rumour is false, regardless of the essential dignity of the planets.

Not applicable.

If all four angles, the Moon, and Mercury are fixed, separating from malefics, and applying to benefics, the rumour is true.

The MC/IC axis is fixed, Moon just applies to Jupiter, and Mercury applies to the North Node, but separates from Venus - a minor argument for truth.

If the MC/IC axis is fixed or the Moon rules either the MC or the IC, the rumour is true.

MC/IC axis is fixed, this argues for truth.

If a benefic is in the first, but the Moon is unfortunate, the rumour is false or misleading.

We have a malefic in the first house, and the Moon unfortunate - mixed testimony here.

If Mercury is retrograde or debilitated, the rumour is false or misleading.

Not applicable.

If the planets to which the Moon or Mercury apply are afflicted, the rumour is false.

There are wide applications from the Moon to Jupiter and Mercury to Venus, neither Jupiter nor Venus are afflicted - argument for truth.

If the Lord of the Ascendant or the Moon is under the Sun's beams, it brings secrecy to the matter.

Not applicable.

If the Moon is void of course or in hard aspect to Mercury, the rumour is either false, or of no import.

Moon is not void, and not in hard aspect to Mercury, argument for truth.

The Moon in 1, 3, 10, or 11, separating from an easy aspect to any planet and applying to an easy aspect of the Lord of the Ascendant says that the rumour is true.

Not applicable.

If the Moon squares or opposes Mercury and neither is in easy aspect to the Ascendant, it argues that the rumour is false.

Not applicable.

If the Lord of 6, 8, or 12 is in the first house, in hard aspect to the ascendant or to the ruler of the Ascendant, or if Mars or Saturn is retrograde in the 1st house, or in hard aspect to the Ascendant or the Ascendant ruler, the querent will receive damage or prejudice from the news.

Mars, Lord 6, opposes the ascendant - you receive damage or prejudice from the news. I'd also count the South Node as a malefic in 1, so another argument for damage and prejudice.

On balance, it looks like what she said was truthful or mostly truthful - but with that South Node in 1, and Mars opposing the Ascendant - those are big warning signs that even if what she said is true, you're going to be hurt by it.

Does that make any sense given your situation?

One further thing I'd like to point out is that friends are ruled by house 11, and house 7 is the house of open enemies. In this chart, 11 is ruled by Mars, and Mars sits right on the cusp of 7, open enemies, opposing the ascendant - you. It would seem that her intentions in this matter are not entirely honourable.

[dr. farr]

You really can't do better than following Olivia's detailed outline in determining this question, and I would suggest you do so.:biggrin:

Me? :pouty: How would I delineate this question?

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

...I'd take the Lord of the 7th whole sign house as your friend (the other person about whom the question is asked); then I'd determine the Lot of Truth and Falsity (asc + Moon - Mercury)
so...
-7th house = Sagittarius = Jupiter
-Lot of Truth and Falsity (LTF) = 7 Taurus
-Sun (symbolizing Truth) sign-disconjunct with the LTF = - testimony (ie, negative testimony means that lies were told)
-Jupiter flows toward the LTF = + testimony (friend was truthful)
-LTF longitudinally conjuct the star Hamal, a highly disruptive star of Mars/Saturn quality (for more of details see the "Hamal" entry in the constellationsofwords.com star lists) = (very significant) - testimony
-LTF in whole sign cadent 12th house = - testimony
-LTF significator, Venus, posited in Scorpio, in its detriment (- testimony) and also in sign-opposition to the LTF (- testimony) so this = a double - testimony
-Moon also sign-opposite to the LTF (the Ankara tradition which I follow in horary, accepts the outlook of Firmicus Maternus of Moon as universal significator, and also that of Ibn Ezra, who attributed Moon as co-significator OF THE QUESITED; in primary Ankara the Moon can be used as significator of quesited, and in my opinion this would apply in this chart); so Moon sign-opposite LTF = - testimony

Except for Jupiter flowing toward the LTF, the testimonies support that she has been untruthful: not completely so (Jupiter moving toward the LTF argues against total untruthfulness), but significantly so, more untruthfulness than truthfulness, that's for sure (based on my analysis, for what its worth:happy:)

[juicey J.]

Wow, I always wonder how one delinated if a person was telling the truth or not, now I know. Its a lot to think about. So you can questimate not only if someone is being truthful but if there intentions are honorable or not, interesting.