View Full Version : 12th house
I had always seen the 12th house as the subconscious...what is underneath...even the spirit in a way....I had a mentor for a few years and he told me to forget what i knew of the 12th house and see it as the house of the mind and also to look at the planets in this house to see what the parents took away- It makes sense to me but I also think it is more...(i still see the subconsious and intuition along with the parental issues) Im wanting to see how other people see the 12th house- what do you think of when you look at the 12th house?
Francesca
10-11-2006, 09:26 PM
The concept that this house contains what the parents took away is new to me, but it rings true in some senses.
I have Saturn/Pluto in leo conjunct in the 12th,both sextile to Neptune and Mars and square to Jupiter.
I have always been connected in some way to institutions, as would be expected, I guess.I worked as a social worker in many institutions here in NY State. I suffer from depression and arthritis. Now I work as a lawyer in Family Court which is certainly an institution of sorts.
But primarily, I think of this area where truths about ourselves "hide in plain sight", things that it may take years of living before we can appreciate or acknowledge about ourselves. At least it has proved for me. What about others?
laliqueviolin
10-11-2006, 10:43 PM
Further, according to Dr. Karen Hamaker-Zondag, the 12th house may also likely refer to events and emotions that we experienced while still in our mother's womb and/or during the first year or so of our life. These are experiences which occurred so early in life that we're virtually unable to consciously remember them happening. But the images and emotions connected with 12th house events remain active within our psyche and continue to unconsciously effect us in everyday life and in our relationships with other people.
The 12th house may also have connections with "family life issues" or "gifts" that our parents (and perhaps our parents' parents) were given... but they refused or were emotionally unable to give expression to and/or resolve these "family life issues during their own lifetime. And now it's been left up to the child (you) to experience and resolve these energies for the parents. The effects and results (i.e. the baggage) of the 12th house may in some ways seem very similar to the experiences of the 8th house (which is discussed in another section of this Web Site). But the 12th house experiences took place and were formed at a time so early in our development that we were not able to be active participants in the events.
Soaking it all up...
As very young children, we were literally "psychic sponges" actively soaking up the images, emotions, and events in our environment. Thus... the 12th house irrational feelings and fears we're left with as adults are often quite vague, unclear, and "foggy." We're never able to put our finger on and/or pinpoint the source of these irrational feelings and fears. As a result, our 12th house feelings and fears may likely leave us with the uneasy feeling of somehow being "victimized" and "violated" by life without ever knowing just exactly why.
To target 12th house issues active in your life? Look first for any planets located in the 12th house. Also look for the planetary ruler of the 12th house and any planets which aspect the planetary ruler. For example, if your birth chart Moon is located in the 12th house - then look for experiences and needs surrounding the issues of emotional security, the need for nurturing, and possible crippling, irrational fears of abandonment.
Here is more info on that:
http://thezodiac.com/12thhouse.htm
lilllybelle
10-12-2006, 01:49 AM
The 12th house is a hard house to define. My saturn is in the 12th natally and currently it is transiting through my 12th house. I've experienced deep fear that I have a hard time understanding. It's almost like fear without reason. I initially felt a strong softening of my ego with saturn moving through the 12th. I still have a hard time explaining the 12th house. L.
I'm really struggling with the idea of a 12H sun. How do you hide your "self" in plain sight? Especially if your "self" is something as ambitious and structured as Capricorn?! Could it indicate, amongst other things, someone who is hesitant about thier own abilities?
With nothing natally in the 12H, I struggle to "get" 12H placements.
My saturn is in my 12th as well as jupiter and the moon.... I dont know what to make of it either. I do see the how it could represent what the parents took from you or couldn't give to you- Ive seen that in quite a few charts but I know there is more to the 12th......As far as the sun....??? could that represent a strong interest in spiritual side of life-the occult(which i know is often found in the 8th-but...)?And your personality somehow based on that?
I am wondering if maybe the things unseen or hidden could represent spirituality-intuition- faith? They're whats underneath it all right? A persons intuition isn't a conscious thing- Its in the subconcious and faith is well,faith. Spiritual-unseen-intuitive. Instead of the 12th house being mental- wouldn't that be fund more with mercury and the third and elsewhere? Is this stretching or ????? what do you think?
Hmm, yes the person I am thinking of has a very limited interest in the occult. He is rather the "realist" - being a Capricorn, this makes sense. I would be tempted to suggest "occult attunement" as a 12H Sun interpretation, but it isn't (apparently - unless he keeps it VERY well hidden) true for him. The only other 12H Cappie Sun I have come across is Lapis, and she is highly attuned to spiritual realities ;). I'm trying to think of what other ways 12H Sun could manifest. He HAS intuition, but it isn't an overriding aspect of his personality. I might give up and assume that he has provided an inaccurate birth time!!!
The most 12H thing that I have ever heard him say is that he would like to comment on, and influence, social culture and people's subconsciously accepted thoughts. This could easily translate to the "collective unconscious", one interpretation of the 12H. Perhaps it is his purpose in life (Sun) to show people what they otherwise fail to see about themselves (12H)? To throw a realist light on our collective, unconscious thinking, or to insist that we are responsible for what we socially promote?
What about his parents? were they unable to prvide him the stability he needed? or .....what aspects does his sun make?
Ahh, hello there. He had a stable family to the age of 18, when his parents divorced (reasonably amicably). He hasn't suggested any lack of love or support from his parents, and I haven't observed anything obvious. His Sun sextiles 11H Scorpio Saturn, it's only traditional aspect. If you count "dissociate" aspects, it also sextiles Libra Pluto. Here's his chart :) Thanks for your interest!
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1787/amir4.th.gif (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amir4.gif)
Well I don't know! :) I'd say- of course he'd be a realist with cap rising and merc and venus together there in the first house- and even though mars is in aqua its there in his 2nd house which shows finacncial stability will be somethings important to him- but as far as the 12th house- im clueless- maybe someone will clue us in :) haha Im expecting someone to tell me somethign about this house that will just click but maybe for some people it is whats hidden- like in say your friends case- maybe he doesn't show his true self to people until he feels really comfortable with them.... maybe he keeps his true self hidden from others not himself- then maybe the 12th means spiritual for so and so and parental issues for someone else depending on the rest of the chart,the planets and aspects in that house????
Heheh, if people keep their 12H stuff hidden even from THEMSELVES, what chance have I got to interpret it?!
laliqueviolin
10-12-2006, 03:19 AM
I may be off, but Saturn in 12th house could signify the parent who at the time may have had trouble with responsibility during the pregnancy. Jobs, career sacrifices, chronic health problems(Saturn = bones, old age, crystallization), fears of being chained to a responsibility or even commitment, I don't know, the list goes on... I notice many people with Libra in 12th have parents who were split up or couldn't stay together for one reason or another. Thus, relationships of any kind are very hard in this lifetime and thus, the native often makes up a great deal to heal the wound. The native has that lesson or gift to keep this intact in their future relationships, or come to grips that sometimes they are found alone or feeling very lonely, unrecipocated. Possibly a fear of divorce, and no doubt being or dieing alone.
Sun in 12th house? Maybe the ego is denied. Usually someone who cannot stand up theirselves, usually wandering around being pushed by stronger personalities(1st house Suns?).
I always think gifts of the 12th house is a vast reservoir of spiritual, psychic knowledge or lessons learned/gained through the conditions we either imposed it on ourselves or we were limited upon in the first place. I think atonement is a good keyword to describe this house experience as well. You make up for something that you've been heavily denied, this is why sometimes spirituality is often found in this house... our experiences are not normal compared to others, sometimes illness or health difficulties or something equally difficult that keeps us in check, forces us to step aside and come to acceptance with such hardship.
I think atonement is a good keyword to describe this house experience as well. You make up for something that you've been heavily denied
I like that. I don't have any planets in the 12H, but both Neptune and my natal 12H ruler are conjunct my Sun in the 6H. I've gone through experiences that weren't "normal compared to others" in the area of health and body, and developed an awareness and appreciation of my physical body that I otherwise wouldn't have. Thanks for your thoughts.
lilllybelle
10-12-2006, 07:28 AM
I have a friend that has the sun, among a few other planets, in her 12th house in the sign of acquarius. Her moon is in capricorn. She is very introverted, disciplined and strong willed. She has a soft view toward others, but she never really forms close ties to other people. She says all people are meant to just pass through your life. She doesn't really mind if she never sees or hears from a person again. She spent most of her life working at a spiritual retreat center, where there was a very disciplined way of living. Even though she is into astrology and yoga, she goes about it in such a practical unemotional fashion that she seems very... I'm having a hard time describing it. She definately doesn't consider herself a newager. She loves humans but mainly from a distance. She travels a lot. She also has many many surprising secrets. She has a secret crush on this one guy, and she is quite content to never talk to him and just admire him, and only him, from a distance. Her way of living makes me sad, but I try to accept it. L.
lilllybelle
10-12-2006, 07:40 AM
SS, Could you expand a little more on your thoughts about saturn in the 12th relating to relationships? Also were you saying that is a reality or just a fear of theirs that they will die alone? I'm hoping that I will eventually become skilled enough in relationships, with my saturn in the 12th, that I make one last for a lifetime. Currently though my track record is pretty bad. I'm still learning though. When I had my saturn return I spent a lot of time with groups of people and off by myself. I felt less alone when I was off by myself. In some ways I felt less alone than I ever had in my life. I think the ultimate karmic reward for my perticular saturn in the 12th would be to have my time alone on the mountain side but to also be surrounded by a large group of family and loved ones. Saturn in the 12th has so much lonliness to it. I hope very much to transcend that karma as I age. L.
wilsontc
10-12-2006, 04:06 PM
dna,
Your instructor said:
...the 12th house and see it as the house of the mind...
To me, this makes no sense. Mercury (thinking) is in FALL (very challenging energy) in the 12th house. All the holistic (attempting to see the chart as a "whole" rather than as separate, unrelated pieces) interpretations I have seen refer to the 12th house in some sort of "spiritual" sense, and they agree that things in the 12th house "dissolve" so that it can be VERY difficult for the person to see any energy their as "mine" or "theirs" and instead it becomes "ours".
This can be VERY confusing in the case of structured, disciplined Saturn energy which is always trying to create boundaries. Saturn in the 12th house finds all the "boundaries" it sets up dissolving back on themselves until it is almost impossible to decide what is "inside" and what is "outside". I LIKE your idea of the 12th house as the subconscious, and have heard this idea before. The 12th house contains those things that we ALL connect into (Jung called it the "archetypes") and makes us aware of those many interconnections of ourself to everything around us.
It is possible that your teacher meant this type of thing when he referred to the 12th house as the "house of the mind", but, to me, this is a VERY confusing to describe mind, which, by its nature, is clear, detailed, and very much wants "just the facts"...perhaps your teacher has his Mercury in the 12th house and that's why he insists on associating 12th house and mind! ;)
Spiritually dissolved,
Tim
Wilson- Thank you - I think your right about all you said above. I could never understand the 12th-mental connection..... And he didnt have merc in the 12 although it would have been fitting:) hhahaa
Lilly-Can you describe more of your saturn return? My saturn is in libra so i still have a few years but I'd be very interested in how it was for you in leo in the 12th . You said you spent alot of time by yourself....Are you naturally a people person? Did this last the entire saturn transit through the 12? were there any aspects saturn made? (lots of questions-sorry:))
Nono(F)
10-13-2006, 03:49 AM
Not a native speaker and not an expert so pls ;)
I have a busy 12th: Moon, Saturn, Lilith and Chiron, all in Pisces, Aquarius on the Cusp, Ascending Aries. Trines from the 12 with Jupiter, Pluto, Neptune. Spare you the details on my life. :rolleyes:
As most people with a busy 12th, I wondered a lot about its influence. A lot of vague assumptions exist around it. Think the easiest point to start from, is that the 12 houses represent the same stages as the 12 signs. First house corresponds with Aries: body, birth, beginning, first ecounters. Second house aligns with what Taurus stands for, security, food, possessions and so on, until arriving in the 12th. Which to my conclusion (both experience and reason) is the house of endings and one's most inner private life, higher inspiration, vulnerability, feelings and observations -> when we are alone.
Personally, I disagree with the 'self-undoing' and 'hidden' part that is always described in connection with the 12th, as if the 12th is per definition more of a barrier than anything else. 'Hidden' is more applicable to the 8th (Scorpio) and terms like 'self-undoing' would only apply to a very neglected 12th house. But seen from that persepective, any house could respresent one's undoing. More probable, a busy or 'difficult' 12th could intensify the EXPERIENCE of limitations, especially in connection with others, as the 12th is so private.
I feel it's a matter of how you look at it. If you look for symbiotic relationships (which to me seem unnatural and unhealthy anyway), an occupied 12th may always pull you back to responsibility for your own inner world and tell you where you prefer to keep wearing rose coloured glasses and follow that cuty to live happily ever after. Paradoxically (?), I find that most people with a busy 12th try to get away from their own reality, instead of connecting with that strength. It´s only human to feel lonely when you have to face things alone and ultimately, everyone wants to get away from struggle, whatever struggle that is. Generally, it seems we always think the grass is greener on the other side, but everyone gets their stuggle at some point, in whatever house. People with a heavy 12th have the struggle at home (inside) and there's no secret catch, we just need to work with the limitations we experience. Personally, I'd rather have what I'm up against close to me, there is more to gain. There is freedom within. As well as fullfilling relationships, although perhaps not symbiotic. Shed some light in there, first. We all live in the same world, we all have hands and feet, physically we can all more or less do the same. But if we follow a life that does not correspond with who we really are, the 12th house may very well become the house of self-undoing. However, this is my perception.
It could be that it has also something to do with herritage of parents, but hey, doesn't your inner life always, to some degree? What is in your horoscope should be feasible to deal with within the one lifetime you receive (sorry, Agnostic) and if you go about it with some integrity and discipline, it can never catch you off guard. I don't believe that everyone with a heavy 12th is meant to stay on the side line, there are less people who miss both legs!
starnoud
10-13-2006, 05:03 AM
Hello all. Just because i feel i wanna write a little, i have no idea where this is going to....
My 12th house:
cusp in 2° libra , and ends in 23° libra (yes thats my ascendant). So my 12th house is completely libra. Only the South node is in my 12th house. In the early beginning of my astroquest (1992) i already knew my southnode... actually it explained my life for a big part and I didnt hesitate to accept at once the value of astrology , especially the nodes.... I have sun and saturn conjunct northnode in 6th. To me it explained why I am an observer (libra) being in the background (12th) mostly. Personnally I think 12th house people want to understand (many different things?) and, they intuitively know that answers can be found by looking at THE BIGGER PICTURE.
To me , being a 12th house soul, as i call this southnode position, is a good start for 'being open' to the nature of astrology itself: looking at the 'whole'.
Never forget the house ruler(s), what are they doing in a chart ?
My Venus is trine to Neptune, so i have ruler 12th house trine Neptune....nice isnt it? Venus in 5th house makes me the artist that I am: I paint (and play keyboard/piano-sound). Venus is also conjunct Chiron, both in 1° Aries. They are trine Leo MC . etc etc
I use also Persephone as ruler of Libra (and Taurus) but i wont go there.
I think there are many defenitions possible for the 12th house. It depends a bit what subject you want to interpret.
Maybe nice to have a 12th house chat-online with everyone who is interested....
All the best :)
lilllybelle
10-13-2006, 05:33 AM
God, why is the 12th so hard for me to understand? DNA you asked about my saturn return. I don't remember a lot. I kind of blacked out. I had sinus problems the whole time, so I was pretty spacey. I got into trouble at work for being spacey. I really enjoyed hiding in my house under a blanket. It felt safe there. I was extrordinarily scared. I just wanted to curl into a fetus position and dream a dream of feelings. I felt feelings of being surrounded by energy and a feeling of a strong prescence when I was alone. I enjoyed being alone. I felt the fight go out of me. For once I was speechless. I initially got to running around with the wrong crowd for a short while. I saw that I had to be careful and selective about who I let into my life. I got into some really dramatic over the top situations, and I let my voice be heard by all. That felt really good. I told quite a few people what a piece of **** they were. That was before I hit the retreat stage of it all. I lost touch with my spiritual community somewhat and just went off into my own world. I had a guy come over to spend the night one night and he didn't leave for months. I dissolved in my home, and then went to work and had silent power struggles with all the assholes that I was working with at the time. I went through a lot of therapy. I finally got on path career wise during the last pass of saturn. I also resisted strongly, and tryed to keep a grip on all the things that I had no control over, while everything in my life was saying "can't you just let it all go." The sense of self and indignation and the pride and all of it, just let it go. Hope that helps. You'll want to melt and maybe libra won't resist that. Leo doesn't like all that melting ****. My leo wanted to stay in charge of it all. L.
lilllybelle
10-13-2006, 05:37 AM
Oh and you asked about aspects to my saturn. My saturn is nicely placed. It receives sextiles and trines from my jupiter, sun, neptune and pluto. It's also involved in a t-square with mercury and uranus. L.
Libra20
10-13-2006, 06:06 AM
I don't have any planets in the 12th house, but I have my both my Part of Fortune and the N. Node there in Pisces. I've read that being in the 12th house or in Pisces can cause the PoF to become the Part of Misfortune.
However, I've also read this more positive take on it:
The person with his Part of Fortune in the twelfth house has a unique opportunity to transform or dissolve his own Karma. This is a person who has mediumistic talents and the gift of prophecy. His dreams often give him answers. His flair for spirituality, mysticism, illusion, and fantasy can be productive in film, television, and works of fiction. Though he may not know it when it happens, his enemies will frequently change their attitude from hostility to neutrality, and sometimes even to benevolence. He is generally unaware of his good fortune. The person with his Part of Fortune in the twelfth house is treated well by health-care professionals.
You'll want to melt and maybe libra won't resist that. Leo doesn't like all that melting ****. My leo wanted to stay in charge of it all. L.
im scared. well i have time to prepare..... :) thanks :)
Lillybelle you're always so richly descriptive, I love it. Keep telling us stories :)
Nono(F)
10-13-2006, 05:09 PM
God, why is the 12th so hard for me to understand?
Yeah, why? From where I sit you pretty much seem to understand, why is that not enough? All of us are experts on who we are. If there is anything more we can't grasp, we're probably not ready. Reading your own scope is great, but sometimes we look for further meanings and directions down the road when all we should do is trust our own perception and live with who we are, here and now.
I enjoyed being alone. I felt the fight go out of me. (...) I saw that I had to be careful and selective about who I let into my life. (..) You'll want to melt and maybe libra won't resist that. Leo doesn't like all that melting ****. My leo wanted to stay in charge of it all. L.
Sounds good :)
My aunt has been astrologer of many well known people here in Holland for over 40 years. Her life long, she would go as far as not travel when her transits would tell her so. A few years ago, her daughter was killed by her boyfriend. Last week when we had one of these long talks, I asked her, do you find that your insights are a source of comfort for you at this point? She answered 'Nono dear, what does it matter? In the end, we simply have to deal with it'.
lilllybelle
10-14-2006, 02:01 AM
Nono (F), I know what your saying. Understanding goes beyond words. I guess sometimes it is hard to see yourself or your own experiences clearly. Though I have had 12th house experiences, I don't really feel like they are part of me. I know that doesn't make sense. Maybe I should try to own that part of myself, but that part of me seems vague and hard to grasp. Also I still have a hard time putting 12th into words. I'm not sure what the 12th is really all about. I just know what my saturn return was like. I have a hard time grasping that side of myself. Maybe I should invite my 12th house to talk to me and give me the awareness that I need. L.
laliqueviolin
10-14-2006, 04:40 AM
Lilllybelle,
12th house relationships? I am curious which planets and signs are in your 12th house(s)? Ah, I don't know where to even begin. If relationships or friendships have always placed you into a position of sacrificing of your energy, emotions, money and time, then you have to ask yourself, "Why did I get into this relationship in the first place? Why am I just tagging along and suffering? Are they good for me or am *I* being too unrealistic here, only wanting to believe the good of others?" (when in reality, some people need to learn their mistakes within time). Are my relationships flighty and superficial, do people have substance? How can I remedy this plague from happening again? Was it something that I did to make them break away from me? I blame me, etc.,. etc.,. ... Maybe you're just not on the same wavelength as they are, and vice versa.
One thing I've noticed about my generation(excuse me for going off), or my circle of friends, is that sometimes I find myself not fitting in with their wants and needs or their petty dramas. So many people are on the whine whine whine cycle. But *I* need some food for thought, some "chicken soup for the soul", a talk over some hot coffee with a kindred spirit. These people and their minds, its not within my world. Our souls don't meet under the same tree. No one can grow up too fast, though, and this is the secret sorrow sometimes I carry because.. it's just hard to relate! I can still be their friend, but most of the time I end up doing things that feel bogged down and I can't say "stop" or "no" or just feel really lonely apart from these people, like a prisoner for being a friend. In reality, I don't want to sit and hear them complain about careless debt issues and unwise relationship issues(we all have them, I know). Sometimes being with such people make you feel like a lost cause, unless you want to help them out of their own illusions. But truly, what good can it do for you? It helps to ask what you need first, from people, then seek it.
From what I am hearing from you, you have gone through many trials involving people who are hazardous. Take this note: This is your reward. Don't make it as a suppressed anger issue. You have a fine choice here. You know, I used to have a suppressed anger issue as well; The motto "The Best Revenge Is Living Well" was taken too literally. Years have gone by and I recall how unjust it was, no satisfaction. Fortunately, I noticed overtime something within me that felt like a choke of water, the anger just took all the room that was left of my patience, and I suppose the effect was like slowly killing or drowning me. I had to take this to another turn. The anger dissolved away with the old me. The new me understands the dark and light side of life, and I realise the responsibility on how to take care of these things. I know what makes people tick and what makes their living situation difficult. This "experienced awareness" is a wonderful survival guide, and it shouldn't make anyone feel depressed. Also, people with 12th houses we're not all innocent victims here, because we often retaliate in return and feel remorse about it. Ask yourself, was all this really worth beating myself up for? No. Now you know what's important and what people should really be concerned about most in their life.
Many people with 12th house would often retreat into a solitude of their own undoing. It is a wonderful thing, really. If everyone in the world could just take a moment and get lost in a mountain with a friend, I'm sure the world would be 75% better. Is it any wonder that people feel most at ease in desolate areas such as monasteries that distantly echo old gregorian chants? The ancient relic of solitude and wisdom.. and the peace that comes with it... Depending where this 12th house is and what sign dwells within the 12th house, it will no matter what take away something, deny, or you make it your own suffering/imprisonment/your own drug and dangle it in front of your face, our safety valve is to retreat. Saturn in 12th, in return, often churns up great counselors or life coaches because of this "teaching". We've all been dealt some unfair cards, but we're not dealt with them for no reason. This is the choice that we have to make here... be the prisoner or be liberated from understanding what makes life so difficult, and how can you go about changing this situation.
Isolation is the authority that puts you into the corner and makes you think what happened, what have you done to deserve this, and what proper precautions have you taken as responsibility to take care of yourself. Have you ever heard the quote, he who often is alone is the most wisest? All that time asking questions within and without, while others are happily following their dreams. Saturn in 12th can also give you a firm reality check slap. Again, it's a gift of the labyrinth. You have to ask why is it so hard to keep a friendship or a relationship? What shakes the foundation in my life? Is it me, or is it them, is it my fears of losing control on this shakey boat that I know as life, that anytime, poverty might stricken, anytime, someone I know and need for my emotional well being will die, anytime, a car accident may immobolize me, or anytime I walk out I may be a victim of theft, a rape, a scapegoat? You have the responsibility to do something. You are wise beyond your wise for this, in fact, but don't let these fears keep you inside locked up and believe that life is so meaningless. Make your fears your greatest allies, turn them around and build the foundation upon them.
Lillybelle, a wonderful trait of Leo is humbleness. Combined with 12th house, yes it is very hard to let it go when pride is involved, but you're letting pride and past resentments block you from moving on. Pride should not be an excuse shield, for anyone. Someone has done something wrong. We can either learn from this and make sure that this person doesn't do it again, or we can just nurse it for too long and be bitter everytime we're reminded of the hurt. The good news about the 12th house is that it will get tiring and you will eventually learn to let things go without much pain because it will dissolve. Which is also why many evolve spiritually after their problems have been lifted up. Forgiveness is a must if you wish to be free, and free others of their own guilt for dealt wounds. You do much better if you can help people who will not take advantage of you, who will respect you and learn to give you some support in return. ;)
I hope this helps, and sorry for rambling on and on. :x
Edit: I realise there is much more to Saturn in 12th conditions, or 12th houses in general, there are a lot of other karma being dealt with, such as chronic pains and failure in jobs and authority over things. Will discuss more over time.
ss- i like what you say "Make your fears your greatest allies, turn them around and build the foundation upon them." For myself this makes so much sense - off topic of the 12th house but with pluto (in my first conjoined my asc. and moon inLibra)- Fear can overwhelm me. I am at times a walking panic attack! haha :) i like all that you said on fear. I kind of needed to hear that. Thanks.
lilllybelle
10-14-2006, 05:44 AM
Hey SS, I just read through your post, but I want to read through it a couple more times before I reply back. L.
lilllybelle
10-17-2006, 04:50 AM
Quote" I notice many people with Libra in 12th have parents who were split up or couldn't stay together for one reason or another. Thus, relationships of any kind are very hard in this lifetime and thus, the native often makes up a great deal to heal the wound. The native has that lesson or gift to keep this intact in their future relationships, or come to grips that sometimes they are found alone or feeling very lonely, unrecipocated. Possibly a fear of divorce, and no doubt being or dieing alone." Quote.
Hey SS, It was this quote of yours that prompted me to ask you to expand on you ideas. I guess you were talking more about libra in the 12th specifically. I tryed to respond a couple of days ago, and my post got erased right before I posted it. That was a really good post that you made. You managed to talk about the 12th house without being vague. Are you saying that isolation is a corner that 12th housers paint themselves into? Do you think that when a 12th houser finds themselves all alone that they need to sit down and see if they made a wrong turn somewhere. Is lonliness the tool that that life uses to teach 12th housers a better way, or is spending time alone to be embraced by the 12th houser. Maybe it is the place where we have to face all of our inner demons even the ones that tell us we are all alone and seperate from other human beings. You know what happens when you are all alone and you have no where to go and no one or nothing to listen to, you sit down and face your ****. You start to dream about how you could do things better. Perhaps isolation is just a means to an end but not meant to be a way of life. I guess if I was to embrace my fear of being alone, I would be more likely to die with someone at my side.
Oh and my anger isn't so supressed. I'm working with it at a more open accepting level. Trust me, I'm very aware that I'm a ticked off person.
Something else, due to the aspects made to my saturn, I have a tendecy to end up in foreign coutries where I don't know the native language, and I end up quite alone. The last time this happened to me, I put a lot of energy into learning the native language, and I found a lot of happiness in this. It seems like by actively learning the language and taking down those barriors that might of made me feel isolated, I grew tremendously. If you saw my natal chart, this would make sense. I have a lot of activity going on between the 3rd, 9th and 12th. Hmm, So maybe with saturn in the 12th, isolation is just the tool used to make me see that there is no boundray between you and I. What is saturn doing in the other water houses. In the 4th saturn uses the family to bring you to oneness, and in the 8th it uses sex, love and resources for you to merge with others. Maybe isolation is just the biggest illusion to be poped in the 12th. L.
lilllybelle
10-17-2006, 04:53 AM
I can't help but to notice what I just said in my previous post that I found the greatest happiness when I actively worked at tearing down the barriers that seperated me from other people. L.
IntenseWhisper
09-30-2008, 03:25 AM
I have a friend that has the sun, among a few other planets, in her 12th house in the sign of acquarius. Her moon is in capricorn. She is very introverted, disciplined and strong willed. She has a soft view toward others, but she never really forms close ties to other people. She says all people are meant to just pass through your life. She doesn't really mind if she never sees or hears from a person again. She spent most of her life working at a spiritual retreat center, where there was a very disciplined way of living. Even though she is into astrology and yoga, she goes about it in such a practical unemotional fashion that she seems very... I'm having a hard time describing it. She definately doesn't consider herself a newager. She loves humans but mainly from a distance. L.
My Husband has Sun Aqur Conj Saturn in the 12th (he resembles your above description) as for me my sun & stellium is in the 8th-( I had to approach him first but generally he is a loner)-- InWh
The_Sundance_Kid
10-03-2008, 08:29 PM
I was wondering- I have a Venus Pluto conjunction in the 12th house, so what would my parents have taken away from me?
I admit I have sacrificed relationships I would have liked to have pursued further, and my parents have played a part in that, but at the same time I see Venus and Pluto expressed in my life in all sorts of ways, and I don't see how my parents have taken anything. I can see how they modify something but my main point is that planetary energy is always just there. It can't be taken away?
Or is it that the general way a planet might play out is denied in the 12th house so it finds inventive ways of expressing itself?
I'm a little bit scared to think that my parents have denied me my Venus Pluto, as with a Scorpio sun and Asc, and with my 12th house in Scorpio, it would seem they've taken a major chunk of 'me', and I feel slightly robbed thinking about it. I also have Jupiter in the 4th, isn't this supposed to mean congenial relationships with parents? I always thought I had a good relationship with my parents... :59:
vijai19
10-03-2008, 08:54 PM
my lagna is rishaba.in my 12th house both sukra and raghu combined.and has aspect from saturn from 6th house.
i have a mixed mind not in one state.my think is always big whatever i see and try to do.is there any chancesto foreign
---------
vijai
cassanra
10-04-2008, 12:06 AM
I find this thread as confusing as the 12th house:) My 12th house cusp has Aquarius and an intercepted Pisces. Neptune is found in the 7th square Uranus in the fifth. What is interestingg in the thread, as I thought about it, is that my parents are artists...my father a composer and my mother a singer and ballet instructor and I find the most difficulty tapping into my artistic side so maybe that is what my parents took away. Our life was erratic compared to others I was surrounded by and childhood summers were spent 1200 miles away in Maine where they were trying to develop a music camp. I met some quite radical people over the years. So there is the erratic nature of uranus in the fifth. Right now Uranus is transiting my, quess....12th house? I am not sure what that is going to mean long term I have been searching for answers. As it comes toward an end of its term in pisces, around 2010, my solar chart looks quite scary. I pulled it up today and was horrified...I thought...maybe i am going to die? (its that bad) but now I am wondering if this is more connected to the 12th house issues which from this thread may mean something more. Solar arc Uranus will conjunct my natal Vertex in libra, square my MC/IC then conjunct my desc. in this time frame of 2010 which increases this eerie feeling that clearly something of major significance will happen and i am searching for answers. Since Uranus is clearly connected to the 12th house and found in the 5th conjunct venus and mars, I am scratching my head. Any thoughts on what this could mean....a breaktrhough in the artisitic area? a mental breakdown, an psychiatric hospitalization?
I LIKE your (Dna's) idea of the 12th house as the subconscious, and have heard this idea before. The 12th house contains those things that we ALL connect into (Jung called it the "archetypes") and makes us aware of those many interconnections of ourself to everything around us.
It is possible that your teacher meant this type of thing when he referred to the 12th house as the "house of the mind", but, to me, this is a VERY confusing to describe mind, which, by its nature, is clear, detailed, and very much wants "just the facts"...perhaps your teacher has his Mercury in the 12th house and that's why he insists on associating 12th house and mind!
The conscious mind/Mercury is "clear, detailed, and very much just wants the facts" - but that is only the tip of the iceberg that we call "the mind". The subconscious mind/moon works through programs (regardless of the facts). The superconscious mind/Uranus picks ideas up "from the ethers" and works through pictures. The collective mind/Neptune links us with each other and works through "knowing". And the 12th/house of the mind might also be about hidden powers we possess but do not yet understand (or perhaps even realise we have).
EJ:)
cassanra
10-04-2008, 01:59 AM
Maybe that means I will develop my latent talent for remote viewing which I discovered in college in a parapsychology class. I was quite surprised thinking I had little to no psychic ability but maybe that transit with Uranus in my 12th will encourage that....:) hmmmm lets see...
Maybe that means I will develop my latent talent for remote viewing which I discovered in college in a parapsychology class. I was quite surprised thinking I had little to no psychic ability but maybe that transit with Uranus in my 12th will encourage that....:) hmmmm lets see...
Maybe you'll "tap in" unexpectedly to the creative thinking that is likely to be "in the ethers" and the collective mind at that critical time - passing these ideas on to others through the natal venus/mars conjunction. Let's hope so.
EJ:)
Caprising
10-05-2008, 09:31 AM
I always understood the 12th to be our 'unconcious" part (parts of ourselves that we are unaware of), like when there is something lurking in the back of your mind, and you just can't seem to work out what that something is. Is this person "lost"? Unconsciously depressed and doesn't know it? Are there some health probs (6th house)which probably have an unconscious (12th house) source? Try progressing his/her chart to the year when the parents seperated, and to now. (i have already done this) Mercury retrograded back into cap around 2000/2001, and not only conjuncted his/her asc, but conjuncted the sun (a bit melancholy), and in 2001 the moon progressed into cap and then conj.the south node (severe depression?). The north node in cancer in the 6th would indicate the direction to head in even though the south node in cap (workaholic?) is a lot more "comfortable". The progressed asc. is now about to change into Aquarius (possible nervous system changes) and the moon is coming around to it's first return (it's at 29 deg. pisces.) Are there any 'unusual " behaviour changes on a mental level?
sara31tx
11-25-2008, 07:24 PM
I have my moon in Libra in the 12th House and Uranus in Scorpio in the 12th House and True Node in Scorpio in the 12th House.
Haizea
11-25-2009, 06:51 PM
Hmm, So maybe with saturn in the 12th, isolation is just the tool used to make me see that there is no boundray between you and I.
I would think Master Saturn is speaking there. :smile:
I don't truly understand the 12th House, but those words make sense to me...that about "you and I", the collective unconscious I'd think it is about.
GreenMist
11-27-2009, 10:16 PM
I have both sun and mer in the 12th house, which I think has influenced the many paranormal experiences that I have and continue to have, nde,channeling, telepathy etc :)
Maira
11-29-2009, 08:17 PM
Hmm, So maybe with saturn in the 12th, isolation is just the tool used to make me see that there is no boundray between you and I.
I would think Master Saturn is speaking there. :smile:
I don't truly understand the 12th House, but those words make sense to me...that about "you and I", the collective unconscious I'd think it is about.
I agree... I have Saturn in the 12th, conjunct with Jupiter, and I feel it in my heart that we all are one. Unfortunately, I tend to forget that very often:smile:
I also fear my saturn return, it's in libra, conjunct my ascendant form the 12th. But I noticed that many "saturn figures" have entered my life lately, since it entered the 12th, and I feel that they are helping me grow (both my friends are sun conjunct saturn people).
For me, Saturn in the 12th mean an absent father (emotionally), both my parents have their saturn in my 12th... I also read somewhere that it sometimes brings agoraphobia, which I had, for many years, long before I knew astrology.
So, right now, I'm crossing my fingers, and hoping for the best (Saturn is "the teacher", it also birngs rewards when you did good, so I think I'll finally know if I did something right in 29 years :smile:)
Claire19
11-29-2009, 10:33 PM
It is Neptune's house and Pisces. It is the sub conscious and the unconscious. It is our spirituality and also our karmic condition stemming from the past including our neuroses. It is addictions and instititutionalisation including rehab, gaol, hospice and hospitals. It is where we are alone and retreat and how we spend our time in that scenario. Contemplation, meditation and it is charity and compassion and being indiscriminate and all encompassing. Not an easy one to get a handle on as it is basically elusive and intangible and coming from the recesses of the past.
Saturn there can well be the absent authority figure or parent and there can be secrets and mystery surrounding that.
It is past life stuff and karmic. However it is the teacher and we mature through that process. It can mean being involved with organised religion or faith and conjunct the ascendant you will appear more mature and may even dress in a more Saturnian manner such as conservative colours etc. Conjunct Jupiter it may stress your religious views as it is the co ruler of Pisces and at home in the 12th house.
In Libra that is stressing relationships and how you relate one to one.
Would need the whole chart to see the aspects being made.
Maira
11-30-2009, 09:44 AM
Thank you so much Claire for your reply! I don't have many problems with spirituality, must be neptune trine my personal planets, and I'm also childish most of the time.
Could jupiter, in this conjunction in my chart, somehow overpower saturn? I feel as if Jupiter in the 12th gave me strength every time I "lost" myself...
As for Saturn, maybe the conjunction from the 12th is not so tight? The way I dress is also a combo of my libra ascendant, but mostly my aries planets - sometimes I like to wear pretty dresses in pastel colours, but most of the time it's jeans and sneakers.
I attached my chart:smile:
It is Neptune's house and Pisces. It is the sub conscious and the unconscious. It is our spirituality and also our karmic condition stemming from the past including our neuroses. It is addictions and instititutionalisation including rehab, gaol, hospice and hospitals. It is where we are alone and retreat and how we spend our time in that scenario. Contemplation, meditation and it is charity and compassion and being indiscriminate and all encompassing. Not an easy one to get a handle on as it is basically elusive and intangible and coming from the recesses of the past.
Saturn there can well be the absent authority figure or parent and there can be secrets and mystery surrounding that.
It is past life stuff and karmic. However it is the teacher and we mature through that process. It can mean being involved with organised religion or faith and conjunct the ascendant you will appear more mature and may even dress in a more Saturnian manner such as conservative colours etc. Conjunct Jupiter it may stress your religious views as it is the co ruler of Pisces and at home in the 12th house.
In Libra that is stressing relationships and how you relate one to one.
Would need the whole chart to see the aspects being made.
I have mars in 12th house in libra and yep my parents did split. Which was a good thing. So I too have Saturn transiting this house. I have recently taken up flamenco dance and would suggest to people who have this transit that they do something that takes them out of their ‘mind’ you can become too introspective during this period. Which may not be a bad thing – however in my case I have I think done toooooo much of this. I need to interact more with people. This transit can also bring up some very vivd dreams so maybe a dream journal.
I have read of many people who do public service have packed 12th houses. Ie Gordon Brown and Tony Blair (PM’s in UK) and George Bush.
I have also went to an interesting lecture on this subject. It talked of family ancestry ie that you if you have planets in this house and the 4th (I do have sun in 4th) you may be playing out some of parents unconscious wishes at the time of your birth. This fits with me . mars in libra in 12th – my mother is Libran and she was very angry at the time of my birthd but did not express it. My father was very violent towards her. I often play the mediator – definitely in family situations but this roles onto my life.
If you have uranus here you may be the unconscious rebel of the family etc.
Yes I can relate to person who wrote of everyone complaining right now. I wonder do we attract these people.
I starting to develop my therapy practice so I am hoping that this transit will bring discipline and experience to this area of my life.
astrologer50
11-30-2009, 01:15 PM
I was wondering- I have a Venus Pluto conjunction in the 12th house, so what would my parents have taken away from me? It's no good just taking out of context these two planets and not looking at any othere aspects they make which may 'compensate' for the suggestion it makes. Really we are all visual people and need to see charts pls :love:
I admit I have sacrificed relationships I would have liked to have pursued further, and my parents have played a part in that, but at the same time I see Venus and Pluto expressed in my life in all sorts of ways, and I don't see how my parents have taken anything. I can see how they modify something but my main point is that planetary energy is always just there. It can't be taken away? Neptune tends to dissolve things, Saturn structures, delays and limits, pluto transform after death
Or is it that the general way a planet might play out is denied in the 12th house so it finds inventive ways of expressing itself? Venus quite often suggests secret affairs, liasons, and things kept from public view
I'm a little bit scared to think that my parents have denied me my Venus Pluto, as with a Scorpio sun and Asc, and with my 12th house in Scorpio, it would seem they've taken a major chunk of 'me', and I feel slightly robbed thinking about it. I also have Jupiter in the 4th, isn't this supposed to mean congenial relationships with parents? I always thought I had a good relationship with my parents... :59:
Scorpio Asc & sun is a very very private analytical energy, planets in 12th are hard to reach, interpret because they are hidden, out of view, kept secret. As most psychologists and psychiatrist will say, everything goes back to childhood. So what does that say about venus the planet of love and affection, maybe there wasn't much around, or smother love (the opposite) or maybe it was controlling (pluto) like you don't get a hug or praise until you have done your homework. Or maybe done rather more subtely maybe demanding affection from you but not giving enough back to be validated.......
At the risk of repeating myself--
Houses: angular houses 1/7 4/10 the energies of planets placed here are obvious cos it's your 'shop window' visible for everyone to see. Next the succeedent houses 2/8 & 5/11 the energies in these houses are not in shop window the are in the shop, but stood behind the counter, ready to come out when needed. Lastly, cadent houses 6/12 & 3/9 these houses/planets are not in shop window or stood behind the counter, they are in the back storeroom and only come out when 'triggered' or an emergency and much harder to recognise and access...
The houses are like the backdrop of a stage, the setting if you like, the planets are like actors and the aspects are how the planets behave in that settings/stage....
astrologer50
11-30-2009, 01:25 PM
I find this thread as confusing as the 12th house:) My 12th house cusp has Aquarius and an intercepted Pisces. Neptune is found in the 7th square Uranus in the fifth. What is interestingg in the thread, as I thought about it, is that my parents are artists...my father a composer and my mother a singer and ballet instructor and I find the most difficulty tapping into my artistic side so maybe that is what my parents took away. Our life was erratic compared to others I was surrounded by and childhood summers were spent 1200 miles away in Maine where they were trying to develop a music camp. I met some quite radical people over the years. So there is the erratic nature of uranus in the fifth. Right now Uranus is transiting my, quess....12th house? I am not sure what that is going to mean long term I have been searching for answers.
Have you been attending hospital, having tests, visiting family or friends in hospital at all?? This is what happened when it transited my12th, if it wasn't me, it was my mother, if not her --then my father. It seemed constant for 2-3years in particular
As it comes toward an end of its term in pisces, around 2010, my solar chart looks quite scary. I pulled it up today and was horrified...I thought...maybe i am going to die? (its that bad) but now I am wondering if this is more connected to the 12th house issues which from this thread may mean something more. SA and T Uranus conj Asc is a major transit event. Any secrets or skeletons in the closet come out. Breaks with family, friends -- everything electrical, espec computers broke down. Washing machine, tumble dryer all needing replacing.
Solar arc Uranus will conjunct my natal Vertex in libra, square my MC/IC then conjunct my desc. in this time frame of 2010 which increases this eerie feeling that clearly something of major significance will happen and i am searching for answers. Since Uranus is clearly connected to the 12th house and found in the 5th conjunct venus and mars, I am scratching my head. Any thoughts on what this could mean....a breaktrhough in the artisitic area? a mental breakdown, an psychiatric hospitalization?
Since T Uranus is going through 6th house of health and Aqu rules 12th, have you had any sudden health problems? Uranus conj vertex may suggest your relationship may need revising, breaking or simply one of you needing more freedom to do their own thing. Natal uranus/venus is typical divorce aspect which can suggest wanting to do creative things quickly, inventively but may get bored easily and not always finish what you start. Sudden on/off type relationships--- uranus wants excitement, stimulation and freedom and if it doesn't get it will behave disruptively :kissing:
much better if you post natal, SA and transit chart Cass for better look see. just few ideas of mine to start
KindredKayla
12-06-2009, 06:04 PM
If you have uranus here you may be the unconscious rebel of the family etc.
I have Uranus in the 12th and this has been very true for me.. even more suiting, when I rebelled it was very hidden and much was done in isolation. I became so frustrated with family values, lack of understanding, humility, forgiveness or compassion (another 12th house tie?) for one another that I withdrew into myself and was depressed for a number of years. I also remember feeling frustrated because I saw that no one outside of our family ever saw what was happening within it.. and I felt very much like the invisible child.
Now this is probably a bit of a tangent.. but I feel I ought to share it. Because as I write, I begin to better understand the pieces.. and I feel like someone will stumble across it, who needs to hear it. So here goes.
When I think of the houses I can see the cycle. In thinking of the first house, which carries themes of self, ego, survival, personal pursuits, needs and desires, the aggressive energy which constructs, chases and achieves.. I am reminded of what many of you have said, in 'dissolving' boundaries.. I think this is a house of transcendence, that we transcend these boundaries - meaning they are there but they are not limiting, instead they are like references, reminding us where we can 'retreat' to in a healthy way. I think this house asks us to focus on opposite but equally important themes as the first house: a will to merge with others, to share in their joys and sorrows, to empathize to the very core of ourselves.. also to show compassion, compromise, perhaps sacrifice, open mindedness, the bigger picture.. combining the present understanding and foresight of the first house with a deep sense of retrospect and totality.. observation of other lives, of 'the man behind the curtain' - the inner workings of it all..
I like to think of it in three words.. Awareness, Faith and Peace. Awareness asks for an open mind, a humble spirit genuinely in search of the Good and the True.. Awareness allows us to have faith and peace.. It brings us to an understanding, a deep and spiritual knowing that can be our comfort and closure in difficult times, because we recognize that there is a time for everything, a meaning to everything. Awareness is empowerment and responsibility; it bestows us with the ability to choose our transformation.
With awareness, we can discover the beauty and significance of faith. Faith in ourselves first and foremost - so that we do not lead to our own self-undoing.. Faith as the trust in our very nature - what we are, what we can achieve, what we will become, where we will go.. We must have faith in others, that we support them and learn that there is a time for seclusion but also a time to share in every level of experience.. Faith in that we are all essentially good, peaceful, loving, that we have the same needs. Then there is faith in all creation, that we understand there is a purpose to every aspect of existence.. that great truths lie beyond the extent of our senses, perhaps even our rationale..
Finally, peace. Faith can bring us peace. Peace with the painful, peace with what we cannot control, peace with the unknown. Confusion, fear, distrust and chaos seem to be the pervading themes of old descriptions of the 12th house.. In being this peace, we bring peace to all... but the 12th house is the house of spiritual maturity.. For each of us, our journeys will be very different, but all essentially the same.. we can inhabit the darker side of the moon.. We can let our fear, our anger, our sadness control us, so that we shut out eyes and scream in agony, so that we are blinded and truly vulnerable.. but in developing our spirit, becoming aware, faithful and finding a resounding inner peace.. we transcend that which is painful, we move beyond barriers.. We can choose to illuminate, to dive into the abyss of what we do not know or understand without fear.. without loosing sight. We can swim to the bottom until we surface on the other side.. where we discover.. all is well, after all.
What we have discovered on this Piscean pilgrimage we can embody and bring to the world. I believe this is asked of every one of us, in some fashion..
I enjoy the symbollism of the 1st/12th house relationship.. the 1st could be considered where we 'enter' the world, our primal and instinctive nature.. that of individuality.. and the 12th where we transcend.. where we peel back the layers of experience that have led to our soul growth, we are once again our core. Though we do not shed these layers, we embrace them.. the spirit at our core shines through ALL of these layers.. in our conscious thinking, in our social relationships.. and we lean into the unknown, knowing a love and a freedom like no other. Like the poem by Stanley Kunitz, titled Layers, we choose not to "Live in the layers, not on the litter." It is here that the cycle is complete.
These are all spiritual matters, so the 12th is undoubtedly the house of our higher and lower selves.. Where we reconcile all polarities, especially our primal and spiritual natures, where we can truly be "in the world, but not of it."
I don't think the 12th house is something we can truly 'box' in... It is the house that is our every home - in all people, all places and all things.. The spiritual sanctuary within us wherein lies all else and wherein all else we find ourselves. It is a great paradox, that the 12th house can be the house of isolation, self undoing.. or the discovering of ourselves as a part of all things, no matter the desolation; discovering that we are all, at the same time, essentially the same yet essentially different..
With this idea.. of the figure eight, the infinite loop.. the eternal and interconnected.. I am reminded of a fun quote...
"Only that in you.. which is me.. can hear what I am saying". - Ram Dass
Thanks for your reply kayla, fascinating stuff.
interesting I have lots of pisces in my chart so I think I relate to 12th house differently too..
LittleMiss
12-07-2009, 11:24 AM
I'm a Pieces sun and Aquarius Moon. I have no planets in 12th house but I have Leo on the house cusp. I have a bit of a problem with expressing the Leo qualities in my life. And I have interpred a part of the problem to be the sign of leo in 12th.
kbell
12-07-2009, 12:00 PM
I've always thought of it as the house of secrets or things hidden/not easily seen. My son who has autism has sun in the 12th house with positive aspects (trines and sextiles) and I've always thought that meant part of him was hidden from the world.
piscesascendant
12-07-2009, 10:54 PM
dna,
Your instructor said:
Quote:
...the 12th house and see it as the house of the mind...
To me, this makes no sense. Mercury (thinking) is in FALL (very challenging energy) in the 12th house. All the holistic (attempting to see the chart as a "whole" rather than as separate, unrelated pieces) interpretations I have seen refer to the 12th house in some sort of "spiritual" sense, and they agree that things in the 12th house "dissolve" so that it can be VERY difficult for the person to see any energy their as "mine" or "theirs" and instead it becomes "ours".
This can be VERY confusing in the case of structured, disciplined Saturn energy which is always trying to create boundaries. Saturn in the 12th house finds all the "boundaries" it sets up dissolving back on themselves until it is almost impossible to decide what is "inside" and what is "outside". I LIKE your idea of the 12th house as the subconscious, and have heard this idea before. The 12th house contains those things that we ALL connect into (Jung called it the "archetypes") and makes us aware of those many interconnections of ourself to everything around us.
It is possible that your teacher meant this type of thing when he referred to the 12th house as the "house of the mind", but, to me, this is a VERY confusing to describe mind, which, by its nature, is clear, detailed, and very much wants "just the facts"...perhaps your teacher has his Mercury in the 12th house and that's why he insists on associating 12th house and mind! ;)
Spiritually dissolved,
Tim
I actually find the notion of the 12th being the house of the mind understandable, namely, because people associate the mind with the brain, when actually the mind is found in every cell of a person's body, and not limited to the brain. Where it runs into an obstacle is that the natural ruler of the 12th is Jupiter by traditional astrology and Neptune by modern astrology. As quixotic as Neptune can be, Mercury (in all of its "mercurial-ness" lol) seems like it would be right at home. But I don't know for sure.
In terms of thinking, the brain, etc., one thing I came across in an astrology book I have--but cannot find (but am still looking for it again)--was that the brain's hemispheres are ruled by Saturn and Uranus: assimilation and form by Saturn, creativity by Uranus. When I read that, so much clicked into place. People can disagree, but I have my own experience as my support, just as I'm sure detractors have theirs.
So, the notion of the mind being in the 12th house is intriguing (although I've heard of it as the house of the spirit since Neptune is the natural ruler). I'll keep reading this thread to see what else shows up.
Bjorkstrand
12-11-2009, 05:42 PM
The 12th house is all about theories and assumptions.
It is part of the thought or mind cross.
3rd=info
6th= analyze info
9th= truth of info
12th=assuming the info.
The 3rd presents info and it presents the problem of whether the info is the truth. Is it true or not true. There are 2 ways to get at the truth. You analyze(6th house) the info. Or you (12th house)psychically assume it is true. Assuming can lead to major problems that might get you into prison or a hospital. But if you have angels looking after you, you might get lucky and get to the truth.
The main thing to to get at the truth.
Jim
m0ney*p0wer*re$pect
12-11-2009, 07:34 PM
how would a 12th house libra mars affect the native? I have a 12th house mars square neptune in the 3rd house and sextile a 10th house leo moon and square chiron
ultimate_fayer
12-17-2009, 01:37 PM
Hi
May I know what do you all think of my chart?
I have 5 planets in the 12th. It is true that I have to go through a lot of obstacles in life. Never-ending obstacles.
My friend tell me "You are lucky that you are still alive". I can't help but agree.
But at the same time, there are a lot of unexpected help, support from many people.
A lot of extremes.
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2637/chart.gif
Haizea
12-17-2009, 03:13 PM
Now I've seen that there are astrologers who tag the 4th House as the "collective unconscious" and the 12th "the collective conscious".
Have you any thought about this? It is too complex...
Lots of world leaders in the last few years have packed 12th houses.
George bush, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown
so this house can mean a life of public service - however there can be alot of sacrifice in that. The rewards may be in what you achieve by doing this.
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