Can Anyone Help With My Mystery-Man Horary?

[Draco]

On the 7TH APRIL 2005, a man was found wandering on a beach in Minster, Kent, on the South coast of England. (search BBC news/piano man) The man was wearing a smart black suit and tie but was soaking wet. The man was mute, and seemed very frightened and disorientated when he was found. He was taken to a secure hospital, where staff gave him a piece of paper in the hope he would write his name. Instead he drew a grand piano, which prompted staff to take him to a piano in the hospital chapel, where he astounded them by playing classical music for four hours. Playing the piano seems to be the only method through which 'Piano Man', as he has been dubbed, can communicate. Strangely, it was discovered that the labels had been removed from his clothes. (?) Suggestions have come from all over the world as to who this man may be, including a French street musician and a Czech concert pianist. So far all theories have turned up blanks, and the press announced earlier this month that the mans identity still remains a mystery. It will probably now never be discovered. Intrigued upon reading about this, I conducted a horary chart, while bursting with the question, 'Who is Piano Man?', hoping to shed some light on the mans identity. However, as a begginer to astrology, I have really thrown myself in at the deep end with this one! The chart looks interesting but I really need some help. How do I go about finding the keys to unlock the mans undiscovered identity in the chart? Who is he? Where did he come from? Why were the labels missing from his clothes? Why was he dressed as he was? In short, who is he? Horary chart data: 18th AUGUST 2005, ST.ANNES, 3W02/53N45, ENGLAND, 11:30PM. Surely, this is a very intriguing horary. What does the chart tell you about who this man is? I have a few ideas, but I would like to see what others think. Help me shed some light on this intriguing mystery. Thankyou all.

[fensi88]

Your question is very unusuall and I like it. I like mystery.
I will tell you my thoughs but I am impatience to hear yours!
I got ASC at 05Ge50. So men is Me at 09Le14 in 4. house (home not from another country), so I think he is from England. Yes, he is musician, because Me is in Leo(entertainment) and ruler of intercepted Vi in 5th house. Also, 5th house ruler is in 5th Su (very successuful musician), and with Ve in Li he is definitelly very, very creative men. Ve is considered as in 6 house another indicator of creative job.Why classic? Because of Cap on MC. But 29 degree on MC, and last Moon's aspect oposite with Su are indicators of the end of his successuful career. Why he was elegant dress? Ruler of 6th house is Ve in Li, so he looked nice, really.
Infact, all did this way. He had concert (Moon 10th trine Ve 6th) than, he argue with his boss (oposite Sa) than man lose his labels, nobody took it from him, because Moon opsote Me, both planets signiface him, and than some secret enemy in his business enviroment attacked him (square Ma). (Ma is ruler of 12 in 12, and also intercepted ruler of 6!) Ma in 12 with North Node, very mighty position, they will never be find, so probably we will never know who did that to this man!
Althougt Moon's next aspects are trine to Ju and sextile to Pl
I have no sense that this man will be "saved" because Ju is in EXACT degree as South Node and that is indicator of some catastrofe. Me also goes to sextile with Ju. Did you notice that Ju is ruler of 8 house?

[Draco]

Thankyou Goca! :D

I was hoping you would respond to my post because I have read some of your other horary interpretations and I was impressed because you seem to be quite experienced and know what you're doing on the technical side.

I am glad you found this horary intriguing. I wanted to post something different from the usual questions about peoples personal lives.

It seems you have used placidus houses in your chart. I thought that equal houses were traditionally used in horary? I drew up the chart using equal and got confused, but I understand your interpretation using placidus. I looked at the chart again in Placidus so that we're using the same chart. Heres what I see:

I understand what you mean, that the man must be English because his significator is in the 4th house of home. This would make sense, but I have something to add to this later on. Also Mercury depositing to entertaining Sun in Leo in 5th would represent his talent for creative expression. The mystery of the mans identity and the inability to trace any relations would seem to be shown by the Sun trine to Pluto in the 7th. It may also mean that there are people who know who this man is (7th) but they are keeping secrets (Plu). Pluto deposits to Jupiter on that nasty SN/Libra/6th. Interestingly, we could interpret the SN as memory, because it refers to the past and that which is behind. So this is his major (Jup) loss of memory (SN), or amnesia, which is of course an illness (6th), but it would seem that this was to do with something done to him deliberately by some mysterious, perhaps criminal (Plu) other (7th), because Pluto deposits to Jupiter. I felt that the Saturn conjunction to Mercury may signify his restrictions in communication, that he will not verbalise, but only express himself through drawing and music (Sat/Mer deposit Sun/Leo/5th). Also, the water signs are known as 'mute' signs, due to the creatures which symbolise them all having no ability to make sounds. The only mute sign occupied is Uranus retro. in Pisces, which is exactly inconjunct Mercury! I feel that this suggests some kind of shock or trauma (Ura) connected to the sea (Pis) which has left him so disturbed that he is now unable to speak (inconjunct Mer). Note that Uranus also deposits to Jupiter conjunct SN, hence although traumatised he does not recall the incident. Mars/Taurus/12th applies a square to Mercury. The 12th is the house of hospitals and institutions, but also of hidden enemies. In one sense it refers to the determination (Mar in fixed) of hospital staff (12th) to find out who this man is (square Mer), however thier investigations are hampered, as Mars is in Taurus and so in exile, hence the force of thier efforts is weakened and they cannot follow up any leads. However, Mars deposits to Venus/Libra/5th, which is in essential dignity, so there is some hope for him here. I would suggest that they need to be looking for either a girlfriend (Ven-woman/5th-sexual) or a daughter (Ven-girl/5th-child) in connection to him, or else some other significant female who would share his love of music and art (Ven in same house as Sun, which Mer deposits to). The Jupiter/SN/6th (major amnesia) also deposits to Venus, telling us that she is the one who would help him recall his memories. She is also sextile to Saturn, showing she could loosen his restrictions (Sat) in verbalising (Sat being so close to Merc). The 12th house is also secret enemies, this may signify that this man has an enemy still out there (Mars sq Mer), the enemy is hidden to him because he cannot remember, and hidden to those looking after him because they are unaware of this. It would seem somebody has tried to destroy him but has not succeeded completely. An enemy is still out there but cannot now get to him because, as mentioned, Mars desposits to Venus/Libra/5th, showing he is being looked after by nurses (Ven) and receiving admiration (Lib) for his beautiful music (5th), he is in too safe an environment to come to any further harm.

Phew! All this and I haven't got to the Moon yet! This is one of my first few attempts at interpreting a horary, I didn't know I had it in me!

The Moon conjunct Neptune retro. in Aquarius is a very watery combination - I know aquarius is an air sign but it is however, aqua-rius, the water vessel. This intrigues me because the man was found wandering around on the beach soaking wet, seeming as if he had come out of the sea. I realise, as mentioned, that his significator in the 4th suggests that he is English. The 4th is the house of home and familiar territory, therefore the 10th, where the Moon/Neptune is placed, is the house of foreign lands and unfamiliar territory. One thing I have noticed is that the cusp of the fourth is at Cancer 29, and so is ruled by the Moon/Aqua/10th. This suggests that the mans homeland is in fact overseas, but his significator appears in the 4th because in his amnesial and confused state, he would probably consider wherever he is to be 'home' as he seems to have no memory of who he is or where he came from. Considering this, the Moon/Neptune in 10th would perhaps suggest a land with coastal waters and a shipping industry, as opposed to a land-locked country, and the 10th would suggest the direction of South. So my guess is that if he is foreign, he has come from a place with coastal waters which is South of the English coast. I understand what you said about him being part of an orchestra, and I somehow sense this in Uranus because it is in Pisces (music) in the 11th (group/team), but I don't know how to bring this into the interpretation. I do feel that some trauma, represented by Uranus has rendered him speechless as I have mentioned (Ura inconjunct Mer). If he was part of an orchestra, why is nobody looking for him, despite the fact that the story has been in the worlds press? Its all very strange.

I first looked at this chart in Equal House but since looking at your post I changed to Placidus. I am glad I did because so many more things seemed to fall into place and I was able to make more significant connections using this system. So thanks Goca, you have taught me something already! I have never got this much information looking at a horary until now, so I will use placidus in future.

May I draw upon your experience to ask some questions?

What do you mean when you refer to the 'Moons last aspect'?
How does the phase of the moon affect the interpretation? In this chart it is very near full.
How do you think I did at this?
Any other insights?

Thanks Goca, I hope you have enjoyed reading this post. Please post back as I would be interested to see what you think.

Regards,
Draco :wink: x

[fensi88]

Bravo! I enjoy your interpretation of this chart! I am not proffesional horarist, I just still learn horary and I am glad you came to this forum. You said you are apprentice? Sorry, I do not believe.

Yes, I use Placidus houses, but as I know Regiomontanus houses are traditionally used in horary. Today, all said, choise is yours, you may use either Placidus or Regimontanus, see what is best works for you.

It's quite amusing how you interpret that SN conj Ju! Bravo!
Than you said:"I feel that this suggests some kind of shock or trauma (Ura) connected to the sea (Pis) which has left him so disturbed that he is now unable to speak (inconjunct Mer)." I think you made mistake here, because this aspect is not past, it will come in future! But I made a mistake too, now I see, when I said in my post that Mars is in mighty position!(I spoke about it as if it was in Cap, not in Ta!) Your explanation of Ma position and Ma role is excellent!But because Ve disposes Ma it means enimies are safe, not man.

"If he was part of an orchestra, why is nobody looking for him, despite the fact that the story has been in the worlds press?" This is very smart question! I think he was piano man in some hotel (Le on cusp of 5 house), only him, not with orchestra (Me and Su are egoistic, they want all glory for them, not anothers, and because in hotel there are always new people nobody notice his disapperance.)

"What do you mean when you refer to the 'Moon's last aspect'?"
I read somewhere than the end of the matter question is about is usually discribed by last Moon's aspects. So in this chart all (future) Moon's aspects are:
CONJUNCT NEPTUNE, TRINE JUPITER, SEXTILE PLUTO, SQUARE PART F. , OPPOSITE SUN
so, as you see, last Moon's aspect in this case is "opposite sun".
About how phase of the moon affect the interpretation in horary I do not know.

[Draco]

Thanks Goca, :wink:

You said you don't believe I am only an apprentice in horary, which is very flattering, because I can assure you I am new to horary. You say you are only learning as well, which is good because perhaps we can learn things from each other. You say Regiomantus houses are normally used in astrology, but I think, like you, I will use Placidus for the time being, because as I said I have never got so much out of a chart than when I used this system. Personally I feel that most house systems are valid, they just tell us different things in different ways.

i'm glad you liked my interpretation of Jupiter/SN as major memory loss, I was quite pleased with this. I was a little dissappointed that you did not agree with the Mercury inconjunct Uranus representing trauma to do with the sea which has resulted in him being unable to communicate verbally, because I felt strongly about this. How do you mean that the aspect is future not past? Both planets occupy the same degree and are in perfect inconjunction so I dont understand this. If this aspect is coming in future what do you think this might mean?

This is because I do not understand past and future aspects, and I would really like you to explain this to me, as it is these technicalities of horary I do not understand but I need to in order to progress. I thought that a planets last aspect was the last aspect it makes to a planet in a sign which is behind it in the zodiac? Can you please teach me this?

I was very interested that you said, 'because Ve desposes Ma, it means that his enemies are safe, not the man.' This is a very interesting perspective and I admit it would make sense, but hopefully his enemy can't get to him now as he is in too protected an environment.

I am pleased you liked my interpretation of Mars position and role, as I was happy with this as well and I'm glad you agree this is significant. It would seem this man has definately been victimised, as we both saw these indications.

Can you explain past and future aspects to me? I do not understand how Sun oppo. Moon is the last aspect. I thought that the Moons last aspect was to Pluto because this is the last aspect it makes to a sign behind it? Do you understand what I mean? I hope you can explain. Also, do you know anything about the timing of events in horary?

I was very intrigued to read that you felt that the man was a hotel pianist. Interesting perspective. However, I dont understand where 'hotel' is represented in the chart in relation to the 5th. However, if this is the case then it would probably explain why nobody is missing him, as it is an environment where people come and go, guests as well as staff.

You say you dont know how the moons phase influences a horary, and I am not sure either. One thing I find interesting however is that the full-moon has always been associated with mental illness in all cultures, and it would seem appropriate for a horary about a man who is in a secure hospital. If as you say, the Sun oppo. Moon is the last aspect, then this would give the full-moon extra significance.

How did you feel about my interpretation that this man is not actually English but from abroad but cannot remember. I suggested this because the cusp of the 4th is ruled by the Moon, which is in the 10th. His significator is at 'home' because he doesn't know who he is or where he is from. (read back to my last post). How did you feel about the suggestion that he is from a coastal nation with a shipping industry somewhere South of the coast of England?

I hope you enjoy reading Goca, because I tend to send very long posts. I can't help it, I've always been like this. I love to type and generate information -must be something to do with my Mercury!

Also, I have never heard the name Goca before; lovely name. May I ask your nationality?

Thankyou for your interesting post,
Regards,
Draco (Peter) :)

[fensi88]

First to explain past and future aspects. Past aspects are separate aspects and they refer to past events. For example, in this chart, Moon at 14Aq29 separate from square with Ma at 11Ta36 (Moon past 11AQ36 when it was in exact square with Ma and now is on 14 degree left Ma behind).
Future aspects are applaing aspects and they are indicator of future events. For example in this chart Me at 09Le14 applaing to Ur rx at 09Pi18 so it has to go 4' to exact inconjuct with Ur rx. Traditional horarist do not use inconjuction in their interpretation but modern does and for that aspect they said not "yes" not "no" but "maybe". So it is indicator of some dificalties.
Regarding Moon's aspects we look at what aspects Moon applaing before it leaves the sign it is in. So, here Moon is at 14Aq29 and from that degree on untill 29AQ60 we look for applaing aspects, so when Moon achieve 26 degree and 03' in Aq it will exact oposes Su at 26Le03 and after that Moon has no applaing aspect while it is in Aq so it is his last aspect.
About "hotel" in this story, I read in "The only way to learn about Horary..." by Marion M. & Joan McEvers, on page 83. abouth 5th house, among another things are bar and casino, so you are right, not hotel but bar. That is more possible (regarding that Pl rx in 7 house).
Your interpretation that this man is from abroad but cannot remember is very logic. From the begining I wonder why the ruler of 9 house is in 4 house? But I could not explain. But your explanation of SN conect these 2 planets, Me and Sa.That supports your teory that he is from abroad. Excellent!
About my name, I am from SCG (ex Yugoslavia) so I am not too far from you. My real name is Gordana, but in short it is Goca.
I'll be happy if you understand my explanations. Contrary of you, I do not speak(write) too much, because my Me is in conjuct with Sa in natal. But now, I am on vacation, so I have time and my answers are unusually long.

[Draco]

Dear Goca,

Thankyou for your informative post. I will print it and put it in my journal for future reference so I remember what you have explained. I now understand what you mean about past and future aspects and it is all clarified now. It will take a little while to get used to the technique but it is not too complicated and I am sure I will learn a great deal from this.

I now understand what you mean about the hotel connection to the 5th. As like bars and casinos, it is a place of leisure.

I was very intrigued when you said ''contrary to you I do not speak (write) too much because my Me is conjunct Sa in natal.'' This is fascinating, because I have Saturn/Mercury conjunct in my natal as well! However I do not feel Saturn restricts my communication but rather makes me very particular about the structure of what I write and say. (I go over my posts about 10 times before I send them, with Libran order and perfectionism!). I suppose it depends upon the sign placement. What sign is your Mercury/Saturn conjunction? Mine is in Libra in Placidus 7th, with Pluto conjunct with them also. I notice that Saturn and Mercury are conjunct at the moment. I wonder if maybe this has something to do with why we are corresponding with each other? It is strange that we both have Mercury/Saturn conjunct and we are corresponding at a time when Saturn/Mercury are conjunct in the world at large. I have always partly attributed my interest in astrology and horary to the Mercury/Saturn, because both of these together are very investigative, analytical and thirsty for knowledge. I would imagine that your conjunction partly accounts for your interest in investigating and studying astrology also. (I've just had the strongest 'de ja vu' for some reason, when I wrote that last sentence.) Mercury/Saturn would seem also to symbolise something of teaching and learning, after all, to teach or to learn involves mental (Mer) discipline (Sat). It would seem that the stars have sent a teacher (Sat) my way, across an internet forum (Mer) with whom I can discuss horary (Mer/Sat). With you, me, and the current heavens all having the Mercury/Saturn conjunction, it seems no wonder that we have been corresponding lately upon this topic. How interesting!

I would like to give you my birth data: 15th September 1982, Blackpool - 53n50/3w03, England @ 19:05 (GMT +1) (Asc. Pisces 10.) I would be interested to see your chart if that would be okay?

I notice that you have replied to my lost luggage question, and I'm off to go and read it. (I was hoping you might!)

Happily,
Draco :wink:

[fensi88]

I am happy you understand my explanation, I see on another your post you really do.
I look at your chart. What a chart! It seams to me that you will be famous! With ruler of your 5 H on crtical degree 29Le28 in 6 H you are really creative person and with trine with MC and Ne on MC...wow! This is very promising chart for some creative work, because Ve in 6H on same degree as Nodes, that is the sign which we often find in famous charts!
In fact, we have same type of chart. Our all planets are within 120 degree (bundle chart). But your planets are on the "right" side of horoscope and mine are on the "wrong". So you will be famous, while I am not.
My data are:
7.Oct.1953. 44n14, 21e13, 20h, gmt+1, SCG. ASC 17Ge40.
So you where right when you said: "It would seem that the stars have sent a teacher (Sat) my way, across an internet forum (Mer) with whom I can discuss horary (Mer/Sat)." So, you see, my Me is in Sco and Sa in Li. Me in Sco is not so open as Me in Li, and that is the reason I am not speak (write) to much. In your chart your Me/Sa conjuct is with Pl(very mighty conjuct for reasch!) who multiply all he touchs so your post are very detaled because Pl like to descover all hiden things.

[Draco]

Hi Goca,
Wow! It seems I will be famous? Knowing my luck, I'm probably more likely to be infamous with that demonic Mars/Scorpio/8th! :twisted: I attribute this aspect partly to my love of detecting, investigating and probing into mystery, as well as the Pluto/Saturn/Mercury, like you said 'he likes to uncover hidden things'. I do, particularly about people (Libra/7th) so psychology is of great interest to me and I have an aptitude for this.

I'm not sure about fame although I'll remain optimistic, but I have wondered where I ought to be applying leadership abilities to my life, (Moon conjunct fixed star Regulus). British leaders, Margaret Thatcher and Winston Churchill both had Moon conjunct this star. (not that I'm trying to suggest I should be the prime-minister! lol! Just that this aspect would seem partly to reflect the ability to lead.).

Are you sure you have sent me the right data? I'm getting Cancer 1 rising and Mercury/Saturn both in Scorpio/5th. You do have Jupiter/Uranus conjunct though don't you? Interesting. How do you feel this influence in you? I have Mars/Uranus conjunct. What town/city were you born? Confirm data so I can see your proper chart.

Were you serious about the fame thing? :wink: Out of interest, what areas do you think I could become well known in if this is the case?

[fensi88]

Ne in trine with Moon in Leo is perfect combination for actor! 5H cusp support this combination, because people with this position likes to work during night!
But I read that Ne in 10th is good position for diplomat too. 4 of your planets are in 7 house! That is indicator a lot od relationship with anothers and your really interest in anothers. And this will suite you well because of that Me in Li which is symbol of ballance and that is good for diplomat! I really do not doubth that you will be famous!
About my data, you type it something wrong.

[Draco]

You're right about me liking to work at night, but how does this relate to the 5th house cusp? I am aware I have acting ability although acting is not something I have pursued.

By the way, it has come to light in the British press that 'Piano Man' turned out to be German. I was right about him being a foreigner, from somewhere south of Britain. I was wrong about him having came from a coastal nation, although he was in France before he came to Britain, which is worth considering. His significator was in the 4th house because he was pretending to be English, so that he wouldn't be sent home. It makes me wonder what he was trying to escape. I had said there were people who knew who he was that had not come forward, it would seem now that they have! Yet there are still unanswered questions surrounding his circumstances....see BBC news site, search: piano man.

Also, I was wondering how you time events in a horary chart. What indications can you see in the horary that the mans identity would come to light in a few days time? I have seen you use timing in previous posts. It is strange this should happen a few days after the question, its as if it was meant to, to help us learn, so we can compare the facts to the interpretation.

Draco. :wink:

[fensi88]

First of all I found a two diffrent metode for timing. For timing it is important the different in degrees and minutes when to significators perfects exact aspect. For example if one significator is at 10Ge30 and another is at 11Le00 it is nessery the first significator goes 30 minuters to perfect exact sextile, and that 30 minutes represent time.

I.Goldstein-Jacobson in her book tells:

If planet is in

cardinal sign and Angular houses that is days
Succeedant houses that is weeks
Cadent houses that is months

common sign and Angular houses that is weeks
Succeedant houses that months
Cadent houses that is years

fixed sign and Angular houses that is months
Succeedant houses that is years
Cadent houses that is time unknown

But Marion March in her book tells this:

cardinal sign and Angular houses are fasties and that is
hours, days, weeks

common sign and Cadent housesare next fastes and that is
days, weeks, months


fixed sign and Succeedant houses are slowesthat and that is weeks, months, years

I hope this will help you in timing.

[Draco]

I appreciate that information on timing. I think I'll prefer experimenting with the Goldstein-Jacobson method of timing, as it would seem to give the most detail. I still wonder though, how would you decide upon the particular number of days, weeks, months, years? Also, this may sound a silly question, but how many minutes are in a degree?

I had been using the general attribution of Angular=weeks, Succedent=months and Cadent=years.

I wonder, might this correlation be interesting to consider:

Car/Ang = Minutes.
Car/Suc = Hours.
Car/Cad = Days.
Mut/Ang = Weeks.
Mut/Suc = Months.
Mut/Cad = Years.
Fix/Ang = Decades.
Fix/Suc = Centuries.
Fix/Cad = Millenia.

It may seem strange to portray the outcome of an event as to occur in future centuries or millenia, but it may be that the chart reflects influences of the current sphere of questioning in a future life perhaps? After all, it is like in a persons natal chart, it still continues to be aspected and transitted even after death, and this must mean something.

Draco :)

[fensi88]

One degree has 60 minutes.