Question on Depression

[DoubleLibra]

My long-term partner of 3 yrs is suffering right now from depression. He had an episode of this the end of May and again now the end of August.

Can someone please look at his chart and tell me what could be causing this. I think he just had his Saturn Return, I'm also wondering about Neptune sitting in his 6th House?

Thank you very much

[franklin taylor]

Hello Double Libra,
Depression has a rather long list of astrological markers, as it should, for so many suffer some degree of it. A Saturn or Capricorn emphasis,Saturn in the first, third, or sixth houses,Saturn afflicted in Virgo, Afflicted Arian Mercury, Moon/ Neptune aspects, Mercury/ Saturn aspects,Venus /Saturn aspects, Moon/Saturn aspects, Saturn near Midheaven, Mercury/ Pluto aspects, Saturn/ Neptune aspects, Sun/ Saturn in aspect to Mid heaven, Moon/ Saturn in aspect to Midheaven, Pluto is in the Saturn ruled or co-ruled signs of Capricorn and Aquarius, Mars in aspect to Saturn and Neptune. I didn't see one mention of Jupiter with depression.
Depressive Psychosis is most common when Neptune is near Midheaven or when Mercury is in aspect to Neptune and Midheaven.
I have read, and for the life of me I can't remember where, that when Mercury is in bad aspect to Uranus, and you become sick or disabled, these natives are more prone to use suicide as a way out.
That's what I had written and found about depression astrologically Your chart doesn't display on your mail anymore for whatever reason. Shows expired. Hope he gets better. Send his birth data if you want.
Take Care.
Franklin

[DoubleLibra]

Thank you for responding Franklin.

Here is the link to his chart -

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ldayers1967/TravisNatalandTransitChart9-5-06.jpg

If you could possibly look at his chart and see if there's anything causing this.

Thank you so much

[freedomlover]

I looked at his chart, and the first thing I noticed was the Neptune in the 6th house. Then I scrolled up to the original message, and that was what you pointed out, as well. I'm not an expert, but to me, Neptune in the 6th could definitely create confusion about what he wants to do with his life - what kind of service he wants to give. Most men have their sense of self-worth tied up with the work they do. If they aren't working, or don't know what they want to do, this can be a cause of depression. Also, if they are tied in a job because they DO get their sense of self-worth pumped up with it, and therefore resistant to a job they would be happier with, then this also could be a cause of depression.

Also, he has Virgo rising, with Mercury in the 1st. Virgo is the natural ruler of the 6th house. Virgo risings often really have an issue with their sense of self being tied up in their work. Moon and Chiron are transiting his 5th house - transiting Saturn is in Leo and opposing transiting Chiron. Transiting Uranus is opposing his natal Sun, which is in the 12th. His 12th is ruled by Leo. I have found that many times Leo on the cusp, but Virgo planets in the house represent someone whose self-expression is blocked - they feel that they have to do what someone else expects of them, in stead of what they really want to do and have the talent for. Aquarius is on the cusp of the 6th.

Also, in his natal chart, Neptune is in the 4th in Sag, and opposing both the Moon in Taurus in the 9th, and Mars in Gemini in the 10th, conjunct his MC.

The Moon is at 29* - the degree of mastery and also loosely conjunct the MC. It is also in the 9th house, which links into Neptune in Sag in the 4th. Quoting from an astrology book on Moon in Taurus "You seldom succeed in leaving the family tradition or training and ideals that were impressed upon you by your mother with whom you are closely, though not necessarily happily linked." Moon in the 9th says one is usually a born teacher in almost any field. Mars in Gemini at his MC. Again his Moon and Mars are opposing Neptune in the 4th. It would be highly likely from this patern that his self-expression and ability to think for himself may have been compromised in childhood. Gemini/Sag oppositions often deal with being narrow-minded, or thinking that you have to think the way others told you to think. This is between Mars and Neptune - illusions impressed upon him in childhood, perhaps?

Also, Saturn is in Cancer, which is often a need for acceptance from a peer group to "make up" for what one didn't get at home growing up, as well as general rejection type issues.
With the emphasis on the 9th house, and Neptune/Sag, religious training received as a child could be a problem, as well. Neptune in the 4th can also deal with a missing or alcoholic/drug using parent.

Uranus in Libra (also at 29*) in 2nd is opposing Jupiter and Chiron (both retrograde) in Aries in the 8th. Sounds like he has some power and control issues in relationships - perhaps had to "go along to get along" as a child. Aries in the 8th often show anger problems, possibly repressed, which can be a major cause of depression. The combination can also represent issues with the father, or "FatherGod",and one book said atheism was common with this placement. It could also manifest in money/sex issues, since it is on the 2nd/8th house axis.

He is 31, so I think the Saturn return should be over, but he is still feeling the effects. The more I looked into this chart, the more I started linking things together, the more I seem to come up with. But I don't have his background to go on and things can be interpreted more than one way (at least from my meager knowledge), so I don't know which way to go on some issues. All I can say is that there seems to be enough of a pattern to warrant a further look. The pattern seems to involve communication/self-expression issues and getting one's identity out of the work they do. Also, in general, some serious mother or "mothering" issues. Cancer/Sag emphasis in a chart almost always represent problems or perceived problems with the mother and/or religion vs. spirituality issues. (and probable anger - either suppressed or expressed, concerning these issues)

I would appreciate any feedback you have, as I am trying to learn from this, as well.

[FLOWER]

hi, depression is associated with the endocrine system. The water element in our body. Neptune in 6th house or possibly other planets in water signs could be aflicted.

[freedomlover]

Hey, thanks, Flower! I kept wanting to associate the Neptune with the physical body somehow, but couldn't get a bead on it. That is helpful to know for my own use, as well. I, too, have suffered from depression for several years and I have always felt it was an endocrine problem. However, it seems to be a slippery one, as no one seems able to diagnose it. Of course, I haven't been to an endocrinologist, either - no funds.

Sorry to hi-jack your thread, DoubleLibra. That just really "spoke" to me when I read what Flower wrote.

[DoubleLibra]

Thank you so much for taking the time to look at his chart.

You mentioned Neptune being in his 6th house and that this transit causes confusion on what a person wants to do with their life, what type of work he specifically might be interested in. Is this ever been true! Since I met him almost 4 yrs ago, he has not stayed in a steady job. Everything else about this man is great except his moods :confused: right now, and understandably so with Neptune in his 6th House. And I just read where Neptune is going to be there until 2011. This doesn't look good for him :( You know he's a Virgo, and I always wondered why he was like this because most Virgo's are work-a-holics. This explains at least some of the reason why his lack of motivation in this area.

Neptune in Aquarius (January 28, 1998 - April 4, 2011)

When you mention "They feel they have to do what someone else expects of them, instead of what they really want to do and have the talent for. Yes, I believe he's struggling with this. He doesn't know WHAT he wants to do for a living, much less the motivation to go after it. I see him as being "Stuck" very stuck. I feel bad for him because I know his self-esteem is low because he's not working. All of this has to be real hard for him.

Your statement, "You seldom succeed in leaving the family tradition or traininig and ideals that were impressed upon you by your mother with whom you are closely, though not necessarily happily linked" with Moon in Taurus. This statement speaks directly about him. He was real close to his mother, who passed away when he was in his early 20's. And when he speaks about her it's like she was a "god" to him. She could do no wrong in his eye. I think his ability to think for himself was limited. She "hindered" him as far as I can see because he hasn't even become an indendent person. It's sad.

Moon in the 9th, yes he's a teacher. He loves teaching others and helping as much as he can. Also very true of him.

Speaking of the 9th house and religion, he was raised by a single mom who was very religious. I don't know the extent of it, but to this day those standards have been set in him.

Natal Neptune in the 4th, his father was missing from his early childhood. They are on speaking terms now and have been for a few years, but he was missing during his development years. And I think from things he's mentioned that his mother had a drinking problem.

Could you maybe go more into depth about Uranus in Libra and power and control issues in relationships? I ask because our relationship struggles with these issues.

Aries in the 8th, yes I think also being a "Virgo" that he holds alot inside. I still don't feel I totally know him. He let's things boil up and inside, but when he does let this anger out, and really lets everything that's been bothering him for months out.:(

In your summary about "mothering" issues, Yes I believe this is the core problem of why he's so confused about himself. He even said once, she spoiled me gave me everything, and when she died, I was lost. And also the religion issue. If I say one thing he interprets wrong about religion, he sure lets me know it. I believe this also came from her.

Thank you again. If there's anymore you can add to this now that I've given a little background on him, I'd be grateful.

[DoubleLibra]

Thank you too Flower. I'll have to read up more on this.

[freedomlover]

Thanks for the feedback, doublelibra.

One other area of information would be helpful. Do you know the specific religion he was raised with - any details about that? Was it a big part of his life -" in church every time the doors were open" kind of thing? Also, does he still adhere to this religion, either by keeping the beliefs, or still actually attending services. And how does it seem he perceives God? Does he focus on rules and regulations? The more you can tell me about this, I think, the more I'll be able to piece things together. And what teaching profession is he in?

[DoubleLibra]

He's not in a teaching profession, but loves to teach others I should have stated, the bible. He's not a "bible thumper" but he's taught me alot about it. He was raised Penecostal, very strict from what little I know about this religion. He's not practicing or attending services right now, but I know he still holds on dearly (for lack of a better word) to the beliefs. But no he doesn't attend church services. I do know he has went back and forth in his interest in studying the bible. Sometimes, he's really into it, and like now he hasn't picked it up for months. Maybe part of the depression.

Can you go into anymore depth on this ..

Uranus in Libra and power and control issues in relationships? I ask because our relationship struggles with these issues.

Maybe I should post my chart, not sure if you're good at comparing 2 charts, but it seems like we both want to "control" our relationship. And sometimes I feel like we are in competition with one another. We argue over any and everything.

[freedomlover]

Yes, I was thinking the same thing - your chart would be helpful. At least, in order to give you more information about the power and control issues. If you could post your natal information, I think that would be good. As a side, does he know of your interest in astrology, and if so, what does he think of it? 99.9% of the Pentecostals, and indeed most "Christian" churches, think it is "the devil".

I do have some insight on your situation, doublelibra. I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row so it comes out understandable.

[DoubleLibra]

Sure here's my link to my Natal Chart -

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ldayers1967/LisaNatalChart.gif

And Natal and Transits Chart -

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ldayers1967/LisaNatalandTransits.gif


Yes when he's in a argumentative mood, he thinks that I'm practicing witchcraft :D We even had a huge fight over it once, and I told him I refuse to give up my interest in astrology. He almost broke-up with me over it saying he needed to find a Christian woman! Lol I am a Christian woman and do believe in God, but also find interest in Astrology and believe it's all part of the same thing ... the Universe. Now, he doesn't say a word, and I don't share this interest with him :)


Thank you so much for your help FreedomLover

[DoubleLibra]

Sorry for the delay. I'm here at work and trying to fit this in along with my work.

[freedomlover]

First of all, I have attended a Pentecostal Church in the past, and have several friends that came from that background. There are several variations within the church. However most have a very legalistic background - and probably this type was more prevalent when your partner was a boy. Those that are very involved with this religion seem to get part of their identity out of belonging to it and thinking like the group does. (Of course this is pretty prevalent with a lot of religions.)

I said all of that to say this: This pattern fits right in with the Virgo and Sagittarius emphasis in his chart. The underlying premise is that you must believe like they do in order to be "saved". (Sagittarius issue). And underlying that is the belief that you have to do everything "right" - a form of perfectionism. (Virgo issue) I have found that there are those who give lip service to how "good" God is , but their actions point to their inner belief that they think they must get everything right in order to appropriate this goodness. ( I'm not sure if this is coming out like I want it to. I hope you understand) His Virgo ascendant would feed right into this mindset. I feel that his religious upbringing is feeding his power and control issues. This would explain why he "sure lets you know it" when you point out an issue in his religion that you think he's a little off on. Perfectionists HAVE to be right, as if their life depended on it. (Or God would be mad at them if they misinterpreted the Bible) He obviously has a lot of ambivalence regarding the Bible, but also a great love for it. It is possible that he is called to be a spiritual teacher of some sort, since he loves to teach it so much, but that calling will not come to fruition until he heals from some of his issues.

And now on to power and control..... Again, back to the religious stuff... I don't know if you're aware of it, but the Pentecostal (and most "Christian" religions) teach that the woman is to be subservient to the man - that she does what the husband says. Most of the "Christian" religions also taught that a woman wasn't allowed to teach the Bible. (Although this has changed alot in the past couple of decades). So, he may have been brought up to believe that a woman shouldn't have much say in things. Even if he claims to be a "liberated man", childhood training can be very hard to truly break through, especially if Momma AND the Church says so.

From what you said, he seemed to have been very close to, and maybe even idolized his mother. It is sad that he lost her at such a relatively young age.
As regarding his childhood, I think there were certain dynamics at play: First of all, it is a natural tendency that ALL men (and women) have to overcome to break free from seeing the mother as an authority figure - for all children see mother this way. The more entwined with the mother, the harder it is to see that mother is NOT always right, and does NOT always know what is best for you. As long as a man thinks subconsciously that he has to do what "mother" tells him, he will have a problem relating to women - some more than others. For in his mind, a significant female (or female boss) equates to mother being in authority over him. The way it works in a romantic relationship is that he wants the woman to love him, so he will typically set aside his own will to "win"her love (just as his inner child did with his mother) With some men, this phase can last a long time, and with others it "flip-switches" at some point. And the thing is, that if they're relating this way, they're not being authentic with themselves OR their partners. This naturally results in a build-up of anger, either continually expressed or suppressed or a combination of back and forth.

I'm trying to put you in his mindset, so that you can understand where HE is coming from,and thereby change YOUR pattern of relating. So, you've got the underlying thing with men - of seeing a mother/romantic interest as an authority figure - anger. Then you have the competing teaching of the church that a man is an authority over the woman. The woman does not comply - more anger. In reality, every person, whether male or female is their own authority AS they are submitted to walking in love. Unconditional love is the only true authority. (But unconditional love has boundaries, and does not allow oneself to be walked on - which is a big thing that "love" preachers leave out.)

It is very difficult for many people to acknowledge the faults of their parents, and therefore they do not see them as they truly are. Unfortunately, until you see who they are, warts and all, and then have compassion on them, you are still tied to them. The more blinders you have on - the more you're tied. Your partner's Moon is in Taurus in the 9th. Taurus Moons tend to get very attached to people(esp. mother), tendency to be stubborn, and resistant to change. They can also hold dogmatic opinions. This in combination with the 9th house, which is Sag territory, would be the makings of one very stubborn about their religious beliefs, and probably one's opinions in general.

Then, add in to that mix the fact that he lost his mother relatively young. Human tendency is to idolize the person who was lost. This would make it even harder for him to admit that his mother was not the authority that she more than likely projected herself to be in his life, or that the teachings she subscribed to and taught him were not entirely true. It would probably feel to him that he was betraying her or not respecting her. Yet this is vital for his healing to be able to see his mother clearly, and not through the eyes of a child.

I've said all of this without studying your charts together, but just what I know from experience, and from studying his chart. I intend to study this further, but am feeling under the weather right now, and my current mind is not conducive to study. I will have to get back to you. However, I did look at your chart briefly. The things that immediately stuck out to me was the Sun/Saturn opposition in the 12/6th houses in Libra/Aries. This polarity has to do with being authentic with a partner, treating the other as you would want to be treated - and overcoming codependency. However, it is in the 12/6th, instead of the natural domain of 1/7 houses. This probably has to do with the issue of service to the other - and balance of that, and any subconscious motivations or beliefs that are sabotaging that balance.

Also, you have Mars in Sag in the 3rd house, which basically adds up to your style of communication being very much like one who always has to be right, as well. The situation may be that you have two people who are very concerned with being "right".

If any of what I've said rings true, then I think you're already starting to see some of the underlying dynamics of your relationship, and why you seem to fight all of the time. Also, the Virgo/Pisces eclipsesarelooming near, and Mars just crossed, in the past week ,the eclipse point of the 3-14-06 Virgo/Pisces eclipse. This may partially explain why these issues are getting pushed to the forefront at this time, and may explain some of his depression. He probably is really feeling the "pull" between the two polarities right now.

As I said, I will look into this further, and study your chart as I am able- hopefully tomorrow, or within the next few days. I am recovering from a long illness. I also have problems with my thinking, and have to study "when the muse lights on me", so to speak.

[DoubleLibra]

FreedomLover, I'm sorry you are not feeling well. Please don't feel you have to tend to this. Get yourself some needed rest so you can heal. You spent alot of time already on this question, and I appreciate your in-depth answers.

I'm also going to get myself some rest as I'm exhausted tonight. I want to be able to answer you when my mind is clear in the morning.

Thank you for your kindess

[DoubleLibra]

Thank you for the very in-depth explanation on religion and how Virgo and Sagittarius in his chart both play into this. So his religious upbringing is feeding into his power and control issues you feel? Putting this together now I think I understand what you're saying. The comment you made that, "God would be mad at them if they misinterpreted the Bible". Oh how true! Let me tell you about one huge fight we had. He was going on and on about the Bible, telling me that I'm following the devil in studying Astrology, well I had had it, and guess what I did?! I flipped and took the Bible and started ripping the pages out of it!! I'm serious no joke. I know you're probably in shock right now as I was after the fact that I did it, but I had ... HAD enough. This is my interest, my hobby. I'm not following the devil, I've spent a good amount of time trying to explain Astrology to him, but he refuses to understand what it is. So like I said, I keep this interest to myself now.

I do see him as a spiritual teacher. He's even commented on being part of a missionary one day. But as of right now, he hasn't picked up the Bible in months.

As far as the "Woman following her man" philosophy, he's not really like that. I mean he talks about wanting to be a "leader" for me, and doesn't feel he is right now. And has said that the "man should be a leader to his woman". So not living up to this, I think he feels he's lacking. But he's not one to say, you can't do this, you can't do that. He's not the jealous type or at least doesn't show it. The control thing I've noticed is when I start "demanding or being pushy", than I feel a side to his, I call it Taurus Moon :) comes into play, he won't budge .. very stubborn! He has made the comment also that, "I think I can control him" and "No one is going to control me, my mother is gone."

Yes he did "idolize" his mother. He's told me before, "Never talk bad about your mother". And that, "No woman will ever take the place of his mom". I want to comment on your comment, "As long as a man thinks subconsciously that he has to do what "mother" tells him, he will have a problem relating to women". I believe in our relationship, from the very beginning, he has tried to "win my love" In fact, I've tried to break-up with him in the past, and every time I have, he clings on. Could this also be his Taurus Moon? He's told me that I don't love him as much as he loves me, that I take his love for granted. Things I feel are out of line because I do love him and show him. I mean, I've stood by this man for going on 4 yrs, without him having a permanent steady job. How's that for patience and dedication?!

I didn't really study up until recently about my Mars being in Sag, and now understand why I have such a "sharp tongue" and have a problem of blurting things out in anger. I have a very short fuse, but get over being angry just as fast as I get angry. For him, the things I say linger in his head for days, weeks, and sometimes months. I'll think we're past something, and then weeks later go by and he's suddenly upset at me. I've forgotten what we fought about, but he's still analyzing it. Virgo Trait :)

This upcoming eclipse is hitting his 7th/1st houses :( and he also had Mars in his 1st the last couple weeks, and I really felt that with the things he was saying to me :mad:

Speaking of fighting, do you feel there's a way we can overcome this? I mean it's been 4 yrs almost and I would think by now that we would have reached some kind of resolution on getting along :confused:

Hope you're feeling better today. Don't feel you have to respond right away. I thank you for taking the time you have in answering this.

[freedomlover]

Yeah, I've run into the "astrology is the devil" issue more times than I would have liked. (which is none;)) I've studied this one myself for quite a while. As a matter of fact, when I first got into the Pentecostal church, I believed this, too -- for a while. Fortunately for me, I had studied it as a child, and knew there was "something" to it. And I was open enough to the Spirit to be led out of the church's false teachings and back into astrology. I tip-toed my first steps, though! There is a lot of pressure put on people in the church (and this is pretty much all "Christian" religions, not just Pentecostal) to think like the group thinks - and to interpret the Bible like how you're TOLD to interpret the Bible. Speaking from personal experience, it is a very scary thing to go against what established religion is telling you is "the devil". And remember, the underlying belief is that if you don't think like they do, then you're not "saved", and you KNOW what happens to you if you're not "saved".
Your partner is in quite a bit of fear, although he probably is not aware of it. To him, changing his mind about what the church says is wrong is equal with betraying God.

Again, I say all of this to give you some insight into what is going on inside of him. I can say this because I have been there. I have found that if you can understand WHY someone behaves badly, it takes the "sting" out of it, and you are then able to relate to them better. You are then able to not take it personally and/or are able to see why they act so strangely. This is the basic premise of my advice in how to stop the power and control. You can only change yourself and how YOU react to him. However, if you change the way YOU react, the dynamics shift, and the ball is in his court. This very often brings about some sort of change in the other person - sometimes right away, and sometimes it takes a while. Slow and steady wins the race. I have found that seeking understanding in all things brings compassion - and compassion is very healing - for yourself and the other party. There is a thread on this forum called "The Mirror Effect". If you're not familiar with the concept of those one-on-one relationships in your life as a mirror of a part of you, then I would suggest you read up on that. The main thing you can do to end the struggles is to end it on your end. The one who forgives first ends the argument. Also, forgiveness doesn't mean that it's okay that they are wrong in the way they are treating you. It just means that you have sought and found the understanding to not take it personally or hold anger for it.
When you have come to the point where you have peace within yourself on some issues, you may find that you have to then be bold and say some things that need to be said - but not in an accusatory way. You'll know the path to take as you follow peace inside of you. "Peace" that is "going along to get along", even when you're fuming inside, is not peace.

This is the method I have used to "defuse" myself:
I try to ALWAYS pay attention to how I FEEL when a subject comes up. I try to take my attention off of the words, and go inward to how I feel about it. I then make a mental assent that the problem is within me, and not them. This means that I have control because I alone can control how I feel about it. They may be saying or doing something hurtful, but I can decide if I am going to let it hurt me.

I then make a mental prayer that I want understanding as to why I feel this way. Sometimes understanding comes then, and sometimes it takes a while. Sometimes I have to pray about it several times, or keep working on it. It may have tough roots. But sooner or later, I am able to put the anger with the original incident that makes up the "button" that was being pushed. More often than not, the incident began in childhood or teen years. When I am able to see it differently - a paradigm shift - I can then let it go. This heals - "takes the sting" out of the whole issue - past and present. Then I have peace and can respond to the situation properly. I have found that the more I do this, the quicker the response time. Things that took weeks for me to "get it" when I first started now only take minutes, or sometimes even seconds. Of course, I was VERY out of touch with my emotions when I first began this process, so it may not take you weeks at first.

This is how I'm able to "see into" situations in charts. I have pulled out so many "stings" within myself, that I am able to recognize the same pattern in others. (I have a strong Pallas in Aquarius, I guess, too.) I approach every person as "a part of me". Either they reflect a part of me that I need to see differently and heal in some way, OR they reflect a part of me that I have already healed, and so can see clearly into their situation.

This is what Jesus spoke of when he said to "First get the mote out of your own eye. Then you will be able to see clearer how to get the speck out of your brother's eye."

This is the best way I know to "stop the fighting". It takes work, but it is definitely worth it. It will change your life on all levels, not just the relationship with your partner.

I still have yet to review your chart. I may be able to pinpoint some areas for you after I study it further.

[DoubleLibra]

He's always saying he's "God-Fearing" that we all should fear God. I do think he's in fear because he's tossed back and forth the saying, "I need to find myself a Christian woman". He doesn't say Pentecostal, but Christian. I guess in his eyes I'm not a Christian :rolleyes: I'm older than him too if you noticed our ages, by 8 yrs. And tend to be somewhat "set" in my ways too. Maybe the Cardinal in my chart. So I refuse to be told not to do things I'm interested in.

I'm finding thru our emails back and forth, this to be a form of therapy for me as far as understanding and trying to get to the root of his and my problems. It's been enlightening. You're right, if you can just understand "why a person behaves like they do", it paves the way to better understanding and compassion. In fact, after the first few posts back and forth with you, I felt a little sad inside for him because I know he's struggling right now internally. I had said something to him the other night, and the next morning realized it was kinda blunt, so I called him and apologized. I felt good that I caught myself.

I'm going to check out the "Mirror Effect". It sounds like something I need to read. I love the saying, "The One That Forgives First Wins The Argument" :)

Just a little background on me, I've always had an interest in Astrology, but it wasn't until 2 yrs ago when a co-worker and I started talking about it at work. She said she was a Libra also and recommended a site where I could get my chart done. I had my very first chart done from the site, thedreamtime.com. From that point on the seed was planted and all I wanted to do was learn more and more. I have participated on various Astrology websites, but this by far is the Best help I've received as far as delving into one's chart. I'm so thankful I found this site, and for your generousity in helping me. I guess it was "meant" for me to find.

So I want to say Thank you :)

Your advice really opened my eyes to different ways I can open myself to relating. You offered great insight on how to understand and relate to different people. In fact, I'm printing this out now so I have it to refer to.

[freedomlover]

Well, I'm so glad I could be of help, doublelibra. With my physical issues, I've found it very difficult to find a place to be of service anywhere. I'm very grateful to have found this forum, as well. This is really a great forum - so many loving, helpful people are members here. And "Yes", I believe God matches those up that need each other. Writing to you about these issues has helped clear up some cobwebs in my own mind, as well.

I was hoping Franklin Taylor would chime in with his view on things, or anyone else. I only see things from my perspective. Someone else may be able to bring out some vital points that I missed.

Also, you didn't mention your spiritual background. You refer to yourself as "Christian", but haven't mentioned any affiliation, etc. Unfortunately, your partner probably does see you as "The Heathen", since you don't believe like he does. Remember, they all must believe it the way they were taught it, or they're not "saved". You don't believe just the way he does, and furthermore believe in things that are strictly against what he believes - so therefore you couldn't possibly be a "Christian" . "Christians" only believe the way he believes. I know, it's sad. Doesn't it make you wonder what a "good Christian boy" like him is doing with "a heathen" like you? LOL I've faced the same dilemma in some of my relationships. I had one guy I used to date flat out told me that he believed I was going to hell if I didn't believe the way he believed - yet he wanted to marry me. What gives here?

I'll share with you something that came to me by the Spirit a year or two ago: "Unity based on thinking alike is mind control. Unity based on love is the true church"

However, I don't want to give the impression that I'm knocking the teachings of mainstream religions. There is a lot of good that comes out of these, especially nowdays - and especially the Pentecostals. I just let the Holy Spirit inside of me guide me as to what to keep and what to throw away.

In fact, much of the "Pentecostal" type teachings, such as that of many of the more well-known evangelists (names named at your request) are very metaphysical and New Age in their teaching. They're saying the same thing, but don't know it, because they've "heard" that New Agers are "the devil", and so just point the finger. I wonder how many of them would be stunned to know that they are teaching the same thing. ;)

But I digress....

Anyway, if you'd care to fill in the blanks as to your spiritual background, it would help me with the chart. I interpret charts through the spiritual, emotional lens. It's the only way I really know how.

Also, "yeah", I did notice that you were quite a bit older. It probably adds to the "mother issues" with him. It's really hard for men to get that "mother filter" off of their eyes. Maybe one reason you found each other was to help him heal some of those mother issues.

[DoubleLibra]

I just caught your response. I'm headed out the door from work and will respond as soon as I get home.

[DoubleLibra]

I believe that God brings people together for a reason also. The strange thing about this is I can't remember how I originally found this site. I think it might have been from a friend who was sharing astrology articles with me and then looking thru the site I found this forum. I've been given a wealth of astrology information lately so I'm a little confused :rolleyes: But the important thing is I was brought here :) And very happy to have connected paths with you.

I was brought up strangely enough in a very strict, Catholic home. Here plays out my Capricorn Moon. My mother had me when she was 37 yrs old. She was very strict, didn't show much affection, and in high school we were always fighting with one another. She would say one thing, and I'd do another :D My father died when I was 5 yrs old of a heart attack, so I was raised alone by my mother. I went to a Catholic school until the 8th Grade, and then went on to graduate from a public high school. I had to go to church (what I can remember because I've blocked alot of it out) at least twice a week, and when I hit high school stopped going all together. I've only gone back to my church a couple times when visiting my mom in Montana during the holidays. As of now, I don't go to church, don't have an interest in reading the Bible, but DO believe in GOD, know the "Our Father" by heart, and probably have some of the religion still instilled in me but I won't admit it :)

So here you have two people, one raised in a Penecostal Church, and the other raised in a Catholic Church, two very strict religions. Neither of us practicing anymore, but still carry what was taught with us :confused:

Off this subject a bit, but still tied into my chart. You know something I've noticed about me. Anything about Virgo's and anything related to him, I tend to take more interest in than my own sign and chart. Could this be my Capricorn Moon or something else in my chart? I always read his horoscope and dismiss mine. Strange I know :rolleyes:

[freedomlover]

Again, I haven't been in the "study" frame of mind yet, but to answer this post....

I can truly identify with your upbringing. I had a similar childhood, let's say - except without the Catholicism - but my Mom made up for it in anger and guilt.;) I don't have a Capricorn moon -it's Aquarius, BUT it is in the 1st house, which is ruled by Carpricorn. I feel it takes on much of the aspects of a Capricorn moon.

I think you pretty much nailed some issues with you both being raised in strict religions that you no longer practice. I wonder what you could be "mirroring" to each other.... Hmm.... I wasn't really raised in a religion. I went to a Methodist church occasionally - more of a social function from my mom's point of view, I think. She never stayed for preaching. I didn't get into the Pentecostal church until I was 32. I say that to say this... You'd be surprised how much of the church's teaching are INGRAINED in your belief system, whether they are true or not, simply because Mom (an authority figure) took you there and said she believed it, and because a preacher or teacher(more authority figures) taught it to you -- and you were only a little child who swallowed what they said hook, line, and sinker. And this was from my sparse experience... I can only imagine what it would be like to be raised with the church being a big part of my life. I'm sure there were a lot of good seeds that were planted as well. It's the bad seeds that are the real stinkers - and they are hard to pull out because you have to go against "authority" to realize they ARE bad seeds. You are both probably carrying alot of guilt and perfectionist issues. I know it certainly sounds like your partner is, by your description. Again - partners are mirrors.

And this may factor into your being drawn to Virgo things. It sounds like you are working with the "Virgo" archetype, which simply means that much of your lessons deal with Virgo-type issues. We all carry all 12 sign energies in our charts and personalities, no matter what our sun-sign is. Your partner has a very heavy Virgo influence - so what a perfect mirror for you to work with!

Also, you are a "double Libra", and Libra is the sign that rules codependency. Codependents typically get alot of their sense of identity and worth from their partners, and typically place their partner above themselves, either consciously or subconsciously. That's one reason the sign of Libra is the scales - relationships are supposed to be equal, NOT out-of-balance - and this goes back to the Virgo archetype - "who are you serving, and what's your motivation?"

I'll be back to you on that chart. Hope this helps for now.

[DoubleLibra]

I feel I am drawn to Virgo natures also. And it's interesting you point out about him having a heavy Virgo influence and the "Mirror Effect" between us. This is like an "Ah ha" moment where things are finally coming together.

So that's what it is, my double Libra. I knew there had to be something in my chart that causes me to be "Partner" centered. This explains alot.

I'm finding this to be real interesting. Thank you again.

[DoubleLibra]

I was posting a little back and forth with Howl on "Introduce Yourself", and this person pointed out that my Natal Sun is in my 12th House instead of my 1st. So I looked at my partner's chart, and his Natal Sun is also in his 12th House. Now it makes sense why we both need time alone to re-charge. Hence maybe why this long-distance we have right now is working better than it would for most. I would say though it's me that has a harder time with it than him, probably my Libra wanting to be with my partner.

I'm also not the "social butterfly" that so many people have titled the Sun Sign Libra. Loud noises bother me, I would rather stay at home than be out at a club, and find that I have to stop sometimes and isolate myself from others so I can re-charge and center again.

My partner also having his Natal Venus in the 12th house, I "googled" it tonight and here's what I found about this placement ...

Natal Venus in the 12th House

The energy of planets in the natal 12th house are often more difficult to tap into than other placements.
Venus is the planet that represents how we relate socially and romantically and is connected to everything aesthetic. When Venus is in the 12th house, we may display a reluctance to be involved socially, a shyness, or having a reason to keep to one's self.
It's as if the normal socialization process is somehow withdrawn into the deep reaches of the relatively inaccessible 12th house. There's a sense of being secluded and isolated there, and that image helps us to understand the concept. It may be easier just to avoid social contact rather than risk exposure.


This might explain his "keeping to himself" and afraid to open up and share himself with me :confused:

I just found it interesting that Howl pointed this out. Here I've had many natal charts done, but no one had ever pointed this out before.

[freedomlover]

Howl is very perceptive. She has a talent for noticing the little things that make a difference.

It sure sounds like you are learning and growing at lightning speed.
Having understanding into the dynamics makes all the difference, doesn't it?

[DoubleLibra]

Both you and Howl have pointed out some great insights. The religion/mother part of my partner's chart really hit me because I now have a better understanding of why he does what he does. ** Had to edit this, the religion/mother aspects have to do with both his and my chart ** I keep wanting to think it's his views that are causing problems, but it's both of our upbringings. :)

That Mirror Affect thread was thought provoking. I didn't realize that so much of what we don't like in our partner mirrors something about ourselves that we don't like.

[MichelleAnderson]

hi, depression is associated with the endocrine system. The water element in our body. Neptune in 6th house or possibly other planets in water signs could be aflicted.

You are right on here. Every time that I seem to have a bout with depression this has always been true for me. I wish psychologists would listen to this!

[DoubleLibra]

I feel for my boyfriend because he's had some hard transits. Saturn is sitting in his 12th house, and Neptune like you mention is in his 6th house.

Saturn will be there until Sep 2, 2007
Neptune will be there till April 4, 2011 :(

I'm finding as long as I try to remain upbeat and gentle he's ok, but when we argue he seems to slip back into depression.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. Going to check research this endocrine system more.

[DoubleLibra]

Anyone else have any other thoughts on his chart? I'm really trying to understand this.


Thank you so much

[cossie]

Hi there,
I dont know if I can really be of any use to you but I can speak to you as a Virgo who suffers with depression.
Although I attribute my depression to other features of my birth chart(Capricorn rising,Saturn in 6th,Scorpio moon),I do feel that my Virgo planets exasperate my feelings by kind of putting them under the microscope so to speak.I dwell on one thing,dissecting it,worrying about it and so building up my anxiety levels.I find it hard to see the bigger picture.Its also very difficult for me to relax in any way and I feel permanently tense.
As your boyfriend is such a strong Virgo it could be that he is feeling all this in a powerful way.
I find that connecting with nature in some way can help,especially as Virgo is a sensory earth sign,maybe you could try this.
Also if you can help him to relax it will help him to clear his mind and see what is important,instead of him getting bogged down with detail.
I dont know if any of this helps but I hope you find what you are looking for as it is clear to me that this is very important to you.
I also agree with you that this is a great forum,so many amazing people in one place. What a find!:)

[DoubleLibra]

Nice to meet you :) Thank you so much for taking time to respond.


You mention that ..

"I dwell on one thing,dissecting it,worrying about it and so building up my anxiety levels.I find it hard to see the bigger picture.Its also very difficult for me to relax in any way and I feel permanently tense."

He's so much like this... worries so much he can't sleep at night has insomnia, has stomach problems, and now the depression that's been more noticeable lately. I really feel for him. He tells me that when he's with me he feels a sense of peace, but we're apart right now. He's in Georgia and I'm here in New York. We've had a long-distance back and forth with briefly living together in between, 4 yr relationship.

You also mention ..

"Also if you can help him to relax it will help him to clear his mind and see what is important,instead of him getting bogged down with detail."

That's the thing, if I remain calm, not bring up negative things it really helps.

Me being a Libra, I sometimes care more about how he is than my own self! Ha Ha But I love him and that's why I care.

Thank you again for your input.

[FLOWER]

hi, neptune in 4th can have a mediumistic tendancy, phychic energy. dose he have any type of deformity, possibly in the hands? i know of a young girl who visited many specialist doctors without any results. all types of tests were done.in this young girl i thought that she could one day possibly become a medium but had not yet developed her psychic powers. she had a deformity in her hand being able double her thumb back to touch her arm. her grandmother could do the exact same thing.a medium in when in transit can also take on a type of deformity. i have seen this happen. try taking your boyfriend to a medium and ask for advice about how to handle this type of energy.

[DoubleLibra]

Hi Flower, No deformities in his hands, other than they are really big! He's 6'2 :D Interesting question on the psychic abilities. I would love to have him go to a medium but he's not into anything metaphysical. In fact, he's tried in the past to discourage me from studying astrology.

I'm going "google" more about Neptune in the 4th house now that you've mentioned it.

[freedomlover]

Neptune in the 4th?? Overidealization of the mother, maybe? Not seeing things from childhood clearly, too.

[DoubleLibra]

FreedomLover .... Exactly!! You explained this in depth earlier in this thread and you are so right :rolleyes:

[freedomlover]

Hehe, I didn't remember saying anything about it before. It was all new to me again. Oh, my lovely mind!

[DoubleLibra]

It's ok sweetie :) We had discussed his mother and religion and that's where the part about "over-idealism" came in.

[MaryMary]

Hi Freedomlover,
You are pretty spot on. My son has natal Neptune (in Sag) exactly on his 6th house cusp, it trines his Sun and Mercury in Aries in his 9th house. His 9th house is Neptune ruled. He is a teacher of primary aged children at a christian school. When progressed Sun and Mercury hit his MC he started his studies.
There are no challenging aspects to his Neptune.
A hidden health problem surfaced -a small heart murmur when he was seven which had gone undected since birth.
He does have occasional depressive days where he is very introspective and withdrawn as he has Saturn and Pluto opposite his Sun and Mercury from his 3rd house. Thanks
Interesting thread

[MichelleAnderson]

I think that a lot of people have issues that they don't notice until they pay close attention to their own astrological charts. I have noticed this in a lot of my clients and in my own chart as well.

[Claire19]

I wasnt able to access the chart. Can you put in into Astrodienst with the progressions and transits and post it here.

Neptune transitting the 6th can mean he is taking in more alcohol or some kind of toxins are responsible. Could be there is a physical reason for his depressions. Can be nutrition question. However there has to be a similar situation going on in natal chart. Depression indicators are Neptune to Mercury Pluto Saturn. Uranus Mercury is indicative of mental illness if challenging aspects. I need to see the chart to hone in on what is going on right now.

Claire

[DoubleLibra]

Hi Claire, I just did a chart for him for today's date -

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ldayers1967/NatalTransitsProgressions.gif


Thank you for looking at this

[MichelleAnderson]

You’re right on target there that something is contributing to this depression, whether it be natural or unnatural toxins, only he will be able to tell you for sure. You would also need to take a look at the natal chart in order to be sure.

[DoubleLibra]

Here is my partner's current Natal and Transits Chart -

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ldayers1967/TravisNatalandTransits10-17-06.gif