Liars!

[Catatonia]

I am not sure I'm in the correct sector for this, but I have a question about certain aspects and/or configurations in a person's natal chart that may point to the quality of being a liar or a pathological liar. People who can't seem to confront themselves in a specific way that consequently results in deception. I am linking the 12th house to this for fear that I may be too amateur to really say more. Comments anyone?

[freedomlover]

Twelfth house would definitely play a big part in it, especially in not being able to face something about yourself. Also, Scorpio (8th) and Gemini (3rd).

[lilllybelle]

I'm going along with Freedom on this one. I would also look to see how mercurian they are. Sometimes a lot of mercury can do the trick, but please don't get the wrong impression of the children of mercury. I'm a gemini with virgo rising, and I'm very honest. I don't know if this is really something one can see in the chart though, you know how two people with the same aspects will do two totally different things with the energy, one will become a public speaker, the other a lier. Lilllybelle

[Frisiangal]

Mercury - Neptune is a good one for 'telling tales', Jupiter-Saturn for 'untruth'.

F.

[Howl]

I reckon it depends on what kind of liar you're looking for :p

There are

social liars - can't stand to displease, so say what you want to hear...
white liars - who can't see that it would do any harm to be pleasant...
manipulative liars - who lie simply to get more of what they want...
exaggerators - can't help but make things sound like more....
self deluded liars - who convince themselves of the lie before they convince you!!

I can't think of anymore right now, but each one is a different type of lie. I'd suggest planets involved in this order: venus, venus/moon, pluto, jupiter, neptune.

So yes, I think you'd have to consider what type of lies are being told, the motivation to lie, as such.

[Catatonia]

social liars - can't stand to displease, so say what you want to hear...

manipulative liars - who lie simply to get more of what they want...

This person is a combination of THIS. First and foremost, he lied about a criminal history, then he lied about an academic history, and possibly even a relationship history (3rd party required). You know, this thread is extremely easily tracible and I wouldn't want him on my back about it :p

self deluded liars - who convince themselves of the lie before they convince you!!

He's got this in him as well. I can't really pinpoint exactly why (in words) I think this, but I can certainly feel it and see it as a result of his actions. That is, he says a certain thing and it proves to be totally contradictory to his actions :)

I noticed something first. In my association with this man, his Sun conjuncts my Chiron in Cancer. Conclusion? My Chiron in Cancer falls into my 12th house.

Another thing: our composite Sun is in the 2nd/3rd houses (moving into 3rd) along with Mercury and Juno all in Virgo :rolleyes:

And now, everyone, for the grand finale! Le Placements are exposed!

- He's an Aries Rising (in accordance to his looks, personality, occupation and approximate time of birth. This is what I've always gone by).
- This places Scorpio on the 8th house cusp and Pisces on the 12th as a naturally placed Aries Rising should have. His Moon and Uranus are both in the 8th house.

- His Mercury in Cancer makes an <drum roll> inconjunct (quincunx) to his Neptune in Capricorn :rolleyes: (3rd-9th house, duh, education, self-deludedness)

- His Jupiter in Aquarius RX makes a square to his Saturn in Scorpio RX (11th-7th house, friends and relationships)

- His Jupiter in Aqua RX also makes a semi-square to Neptune in Capricorn RX. (11th-9th houses)

The guy is a pathological liar! Bahahaha. That is all :D

[23]

I know of a stringing serial dater who won't settle down and has a string of broken engagements.

He has neptune 1st house (not conj asc) in Sco squaring jupiter in the 5th and mars in the 11th. These are both dissociate aspects. He also has 5th house cusp Aqu.

He impresses them with charisma and tries to put himself up as a man of sophistication. I've never really trusted him though, my radar says he's trouble!

[23]

Oh and the ruler of his 5th house, uranus sits nicely in the 12th house squaring venus

[Catatonia]

I may also have this guy's ascendant all wrong putting his house placements differently as well, but it just doesn't seem that way. Although, you never know.

Anyhow, these aspects are for sure right here --> His Sun opposes Neptune, his Mercury makes a quincunx to Neptune, and then Jupiter makes a semi-square. There is another aspect (negative one) that I am unsure of from Neptune to his North Node. This guy has only one possibly positive aspect which is Neptune conjunct his Midheaven.

[allie_b]

The two biggest liars I have known both have Pisces Sun with two other personal planets in Pisces. I don't believe they have any aspects to Neptune(can't recall).

One lies to avoid: avoid doing things he doesn't want to do, or to avoid an argument for a few examples. Of course he gets found out sooner or later and then there's an even bigger argument in the end. And yet he doesn't learn from this. It's almost compulsive with him. He just can't be honest.

The other person I know, lies to make herself appear something that she is not, to make herself look better in other peoples' eyes.

Two different motivations--both big fat liars!

I myself, am a Pisces, so I have nothing against the sign.

Just my observation.

[franklin taylor]

Hi,
I wouldn't exactly know what planet or planetary aspect would be indiciative every time of lying. One should probably never compartmentalize or stereotype that a person who lies in and about one or even a few aspects of their life. No one lies in all things (thus then only deserving the full title as liar) One should ask this question. To whom are they a habitual liar with. I feel that several planets are factors.
If you look at Neptune to start, a negative keyword for it is "Deception" and it's related adjectives. If you use the other personal and bridging planets (Jupiter and Saturn) and place them in stressful aspects with it you might could find out who they are deceptive with. I"ll use my own as and example. The only stressful apect my Neptune has (and its a Lou,Lou) is my Sun square Neptune. I can have and always have had a bad case of Rose-colored-glasses syndrome (I call it) with my self, I'll admit, if you put key words together you see that it translates to Self/Deception or you essentially lie to yourself. Which can lead to a lot of problems if you don't learn to watch. Especially personal addictions. I am generally frank and honest with others. I learned about this aspect almost 20 years ago and I have learned to watch but old habits die hard. I have had several friends, but some of my best have been Pisces males and oddly enough two of them have been Virgo Moon all of them were class mates two had the same birthdays March 6 of my year and another on March 7 (also my cousin don't know his birthtime the moon goes into Libra sometime that day) and a fourth Male March 5 Leo moon though. With me, these boys have always been honest with me as the day is long, but again as with everyone you deal with they are honest as far as you know it and its never a 100 percent true deal. Pisces is ruled by Neptune after all. I'm sorry no matter what anyone says we've all lied. I have been a person to not lie directly but to ommit things that I personally felt it was nobody else's business (that's my Pluto in my relationship house 7. I can be a bit seclusive in them) yet it still qualfies as a lie. I am a rather open person despite the former statement. (I'm admitting and opening myself up here aren't I and no offense I don't know any of you or you know me lol)
But back to planets aspecting Neptune, Neptune in hard aspect to Mercury may indicate you are deceptive with others, friends or not maybe. With Moon in hard aspect with Neptune you may lie to the public in general because you are usually a Very Private person with this aspect maybe.
Neptune in hard aspect with Jupiter may indicate you lie to people you consider friends (gets to bad they aren't your friends long. One may tolerate it a while especially if they have the aformentioned Rose-colored-glasses syndrome. I know I am guilty of tolerating it some. lol). But that may pinpoint a person that goes through a lot of short friendships for that reason maybe.
Some people can be more open and honest with one sex or another and you could say Neptune in bad aspect with Mars or Venus to describe that with each sex these planets pertain to is a possibility. (there's not a third sex yet is there? lol)
People that I am familiar with their charts that have a badly aspected Venus with personal planets can be quite the little "fibbers". If you'll look at the bad aspects of Venus you could figure out how someone with its bad aspects can become larceny poets and even leading to a life of crime even. A negative keyword of both Neptune and Venus is "Laziness". Laziness can make you lie every time, because you lie to explain away your idle activity. Its a number one first question in society. "What have you been doing?" no one wants to hear or say that you or they are doing nothing ALL the time its like a social pressure. Once again they are probably lazier in some segments of their lifes than in others just like the lying is often compartmentalized
A badly aspected Mercury to me would be a possible indicator of some of the most ingenious liars there are. Think about it, if you have a sharp intellect, personal flaws, and are prone to misuse that intellect. All sorts of creative treacheries could come of of your mind and mouth. Use the keywords in their negative connotations for the personal and bridging planets, and see what you come up with. And before Any One gets upset, LOL, because they have ill aspected planets I have mentioned here, think before getting upset period. Your personal value system, your environment; now and growing up, play a HUGE part in determining your lying habits. I knew a whole family of children growing up who lived in a horrifically abusive situation, 6 kids, and each and everyone were and still are liars in how they relate to others(Big Time). If they told you, and you didn't know any better, that the sun set in the west you'd still be inclined to consult a compass at sunset, it was that bad LOL. You could scarsely believe a word they said. It boiled down to the fact that either conciously or subconciously or both they would rather live in a lie, and in a fantasy world, than face their reality. And always remember the saying; a lie is a lie is a lie.... meaning any untruth however minutely distorted is a lie. Little or Big
Have a good day,
Franklin

[allie_b]

The more I thought about the topic of liars, the more I came to realize that it truly depends upon what level a person is living on--how attached to the ego a person is.

That's what makes the difference. Two people could have the same chart, but one person is more "enlightened" and so, is not a liar.

[Howl]

Hey Franklin,

Great post. We all DO lie indeed, to some degree, even if only to ourselves. Everyone is slippery about some things for different reasons. I myself am a fibber in some ways. I would love it if you took a peek at my chart and hit me with your theory of what I twist the truth about, to whom, and when!

Anyone? I promise to tell the truth about how I lie :p

My chart is attached to the bottom of this post, I won't take anything personally! Go on :D
.

[Catatonia]

Very nice post, Franklin. Absolutely. Now, what can you say about a person with Sun opposite Neptune? And the same person's Sun is obviously opposite my generation's Neptune, because Neptune is a generational planet.

[BorX]

Also try these 2 ( Lilith and Hades )

I use Lilith and the Hypothetical planet Hades, i found the most secrets and lies with these 2 quite easy.:cool:

Sometimes I use Admetos and Poseidon too when i cannot see the picture clear.

[Claire19]

Neptune with Mercury challenged, is the prime aspect. Okay it may be connected to the 12th but also the 3rd house would be appropriate.
Depends on how the person lies and in what area of life.
compulsive lies would also involve Pluto.

[Lin]

Cat,
Please post this chart, even if you don't have an accurate time. Use noon.
LIN