Saturn/ Chiron conjunction

[franklin taylor]

Hello,
Could anyone explain the aspect of Saturn conjunct Chiron in the Natal 2nd house. The sign so placed for both is Pisces. The orb is three degrees.
I would appreciate any help.
Thanks.
Franklin

[Lapis]

franklin taytlor,

Because this placement (Saturn conjunct Chiron in Pisces) sounded rather intense to me, I looked in my book Chiron - Rainbow Bridge Between the Inner and Outer Planets by Barbara Hand Clow 1994. Because of what I found there I'll quote parts of what she says.

*****************************************

(I received a PM today (10-13-09) from a forum moderator asking me to remove part of the quoted book material I had originally written here years ago. I broke some new forum "copyright" rule evidently, so, more Light has been removed.

Mods, next time you're following these forum rules in any of my old posts here, you just go ahead and delete whatever it is that you need to and don't ask me to do it. Lapis.)

[Buai]

Franklin Taylor,

You obviously have loads of talent regarding 'healing'. And the buisiness of running and owning a healing centre. You are the man!
As if you're a 'teacher of teachers' regarding the healing princalple.

Unfortunately for you, your wounds are likely to be so ingrained that they take you through a deep and painful personal journey to unravel, self worth regarding your own (healing) abilities being the most upfront aspect.
Those talents not being directly to this relative world at all.
It's like you already know it, but are on hold, till you show you can cope with the responsibilty of 'knowing', and can weald the energy appropriately.
What are your priorities and values?
I'm not being a 'goose', I'm playing the devils advocate here...

Saturn is the 'old man time' syndrome, so it will make sure you know your stuff before you feel the status of your worth.
You are an amazing and respectable person as far as your inherent healing abilities are concerned.
But you will be tested personally before you realise your personal goodies.

I would be interested to know the aspects associated with that conjunction, it quailifies the connection.
I assume Netune is there trine from the 10th house?
Is it squaring a 5th house Jupiter in Gemini conjunct nth node?
Are you having a difficult time integrating your idea of fun, with your values structure and goals insofar as your life-path is concerned?

Your father plays a big part in this too somehow.
Did you feel less that accepted in your environment as a young person?
Were you living in a place that didn't accept who you were as a person, or a family...an outcast?
And was your self worth dragged down to the gutter as a consequence?

These are your wounds, they are your journey and reward!
Embrace them and discover who you truely are...

Enough food for thought...
Wadya think?

[kellfire66]

I have Saturn/Chiron conjunct in the Fifth House in Pisces. I have often been told that I will never have kids or find love. Here is my info: born 12/22/1966 in Rock Hill, South Carolina, York County, USA and 3:13.

any insights are appreciated.

-KJ

[R4VEN]

franklin taylor, thanks for bringing up this placement. I have not really read very much about it, but being very interested in Chiron I have had to observe how it manifests in the lives of those who have it.

Lapis quoted from Hand Clow about how rare this conjunction is, and so it is useful to look at that rarity, and what it may mean. Firstly, the wounding surrounding Chiron in Pisces describes a generation who were born waiting for the sky to fall - or in the case of your own generation, for someone to press the button which would result in total world annihilation. Those born with Chiron in Pisces carry the collective pain of their heredity. With this placement being in the 2nd, you are having to rely heavily on your own unique personal resources as a way of making it through your life. Learning about the value of what it is you value is essentially what this is about.

Now throw in the Chiron conj Saturn, and you have the wound of the Father Principle. Collectively, people born during this conjunction came into the world on the cusp of dramatic world change, and you bring these changing values with you. It's as though you are saying to the `fathers' - i.e. male leaders in the world - who seemed to be hell-bent on bringing us all to the brink of destruction: "Are you kidding? Why should I believe anything you say? You just don't have a clue!" Contempt - or at the very least, dismissal - of the authority of the father-figures is a general reaction to this conjunction.

The `authorities' in the world leading up to this time were pretty much all male, all paternalistic, and many just unable to see beyond their own egos. This energy was challenged by the Chiron-Saturn conjunction in 1966, and you in your own way embody some of this collective challenge to the status quo of the time. Your own life `fits' into this movement or drive in some way, perhaps by the values you have chosen to adopt, or at the very least, what it is you consider to be your own personal resources - which are likely to be quite un-Saturnian in nature! The very idea of an heirarchy would feel quite foreign to you.

[franklin taylor]

Looking at the dates...Uh, LOL, its been.. a long time coming.. to the time of responding to the old posts. Don't think I was ready to respond when I posed the question. Facts are I know I was not. It was very powerful. These issues are so deeply, as Buai (oh BTW thanks for the encouragement!!) quoted there, "ingrained" that, YES, they have been extraordinarily hard to deal with due to my circumstances playing out as they did in my life.

I have since studied subjects more than astrology that "paint my personal picture" more clearly. Then my strongly transiting Neptune opposing my Natal Sun at those times gave me a very foggy understanding of myself. I was in the throes of trying to save someone from, Neptunian problems, (alcoholism), none the less, at those times. And quite ill myself.

A more intense study of personology shows that people born on my birthday..August 12.. have a great desire for knowledge, old laws, and for old wisdom. Yet they are often almost tyrannically insistant upon doing things their way in their personal lives and with those around them. My personal 33/6 numerology shows I am more of a sacrifical type. Who was prone to martyrdom, overly idealistic, and whose main mission in life was acceptance of things as they really are... I can really attest to that..Acceptance. Well I can say that understanding and realizing there is truth to both... I attend a group that strives to have a geniune love, but healthier detachment from people and particularly focus on acceptance of people as they are, and it has healed so much in my own life.

I am trying my best to integrate all the metaphysics to "HEAL" me and I know they are doing just that. I hope to sometime be able to talk with others about their own situations in life by using such teachings of all of these methods and blending them into a healthy usable spiritual message to help them heal in such areas of life. Especially in the areas of security and self esteem. Well, if you know the key words for Saturn and Chiron and it's placements as I have in the second house they are used in the above. I see now that the universe placed the symbology of Chiron the "Wounded Healer" correctly so by sign and house and all the things that house symbolize for my development. Now I need to do all the work Saturn's symbology calls me to do. It all really does fall back to my Motto down there I had come to realize..we are truly dealt fate at that birth moment, place, and time....but the life we build upon it is truly up to us..in short ..But I have to earn that security for myself and stay positive, and only then can I truly help others. We all should know that in this life we cannot give anything away that we truly do not ourselves possess first. I am getting there and as I have mentioned on my personal page in here I have fears of gaining that ability I speak of. For opposingly saying this adage... all silver linings have their black clouds.. it sounds so negative, but the good never exist without the bad. We always learn from both no matter what, and can and will turn bad to good, and it is a good thing to remember... especially when a person like myself is too idealistic by nature as a Leo Sun native and a 33/6. Also, having "energetically and expandingly exalted" Mars/Jupiter in Cancer conjunction, and most of my personal planetary placements, in the sixth house. It would be symbolic of a person who is always concerned with their daily life service of self and to others (western hemisphere placement). There are so many angles on this I have learned, and many more to consider than space or attention span LOL allows me to speak of here.

Using the Pullen's chart weighing system on Astrodienst, Saturn conjunct Chiron is a "heavier" aspect of my chart. Uranus conjunct Pluto in Virgo, in the 7th, was the most powerful I feel the symbology there could also boost the power of healing energies with Pluto being at one of Virgo's most powerful points..17 degrees. Maybe this could point to healing of relationships or people's relationships as well. People unload on me all the time. They always have. I am easy to talk to for them and can on a good day LOL be an absorber of their pain, and be an ear to listen. I need to learn also that I need to be a true help to these people not and enabler to them not to learn the lesson life and destiny may be teaching them in this lifetime.

Uranus, and Aquarius Rising, I guess would mean ..being a little offbeat type of person to approach. I really am the last person someone would think of as Esoterically or metaphysically concerned. I mean, cm'on, I dress like a republican LOL. But am not affiliated to any. I appear gruff and detached often enough too, but speak to me.. it all dissapears.. been told that often enough. To Lapis and Buai, thanks for pointing me to the that powerful reading Lapis. Thanks to Buai for your spiritual cheerleading..sorry, I was not really open to it for so long. I have learned to see the encouragement. I would recommend all to take a deep "delving" into their numerology and their Personology on a more and less personal aspect in that respective order. Only if you really truly are wanting to face your weaknesses personally. Our weaknesses are truly where our true spiritual strengths lie. Not the superficial ones.

Well Kellifire, do not be disheartened about the Saturn/ Chiron conjunction in your 5th house. There's no absolutes in how our Natal chart expresses itself. Saturn/Chiron in my second has only pointed to where the most difficult challenges in this life may lie... not that it "will never" happen. It is just a very great challenge that may take half our lifes to overcome. People telling people things are definitely going to happen like that sets us up for a subconcious self fulfilling prophesy. When it is more appropriate to say you may tend to undo yourself and you must work hard for this area in your life. I know enough times I undid my own self esteem. Focus deeply on your wounds of 5th house concerns and work at how you may be able heal them.

R4VEN, I worshipped the ground my father walked upon for so long then he failed in some of my expectations..and was breaking laws. I know now, too well, that I could not accept his behavior. He passed away 20 years ago today actually on unsettled terms between us.
I have been learning to love people beyond those things and to forgive them, and most importantly forgive myself. YES!! excluding myself,...he was my 2nd worst critic. I literally did not live up to his expectations I see now. I was rather "otherworldly" in a Redneck world even then..I do not fit in here. The most impotant thing is... I do not care anymore. I work daily to adapt to that Mercury opposing Ascendant... YES MAN mentality, and cling to the earthshattering reality that I cannot FIX anyone on this planet except my very SELF. That was one of the most grand revealations to me in this lifetime most do not realize, and an even more magnificent relief to discover the fact that I don't have too. I am ME. Its all good what you write about here R4VEN. Thanks for the input.
Take care
Franklin

[Caro]

Hi
I was born in 67 feb 11th.
I have this conjunction chiron/saturn in 5th house too - and have had seen similar negative intepretations ie never find love/have fun/kids.This was actually some of my first experiences with astrology.

however I perservered......

I think I take these things quite seriously ie relationships and looking after children but it is not I lack fun. I love theatre and have since a young age! I find I have to work at being creative - there is a block there which I am looking at over coming now. I think this may be transformational for me as this is opp pluto/uranus conj. (I have a number of planets in pisces so in away I am glad of saturn here as maybe things could have got out of control without it.)

Not sure if that helps you Kell. you will also have neptune in first house?

I have just completed a healing course, I have learnt a great deal about myself and it has helped me deal with things which I dont believe other therapies would.

I do agree with the rebel against father figures - not good with authoritarian leadership of either sex. I work better not being managed!!I had a difficult relationship with my dad. I was the parent and had to defend him as he had difficult behaviour and was eccentric (also had unpredicable violent tendancies) However it was through his death that I started to seek out a 'spiritual path' in my life.

Franklin - I would imagine you have the pluto/uranus conj opp in the eight house. so that needs to be taken into account.

[kellfire66]

Caro, thanks for your reply. I never realized how much influence the 5th house really played in my life until some reading I did last night. In my first career, I was a professional bassoonist. Music allowed the expression of creativity, the discipline of classical music satisfied Saturn and self healing attending to chiron. I never got along with conductors(father figures), haha, not many do.
Now I am a massage therapist and own my business and play musical theater when I like.
I have only recently dated in the traditional sense. My younger involvements seemed more circumstantial with no relationship lasting longer than 6 months. Only recently have I gone out on dates. Still with no success. I am hopeful, but realize there is nothing casual about me concerning relationships. It's either you are my partner or the highway. My feeling is that I don't want to waste my time on something superficial.

[Caro]

Kell66 thanks for feedback, how interesting and how lucky u have a musical talent, maybe something to revisit now. I played piano as a youngster(age 10 for a few years) but wanted to do my own thing and my own way. Alas not particularly talented - I love music and what a great gift for you to have..

again I found my way to spiritual healing which feels like the right fit for me, both for myself and to help others. Once again I am looking at creativity.

your a capricorn I see so interesting too that you choose a more physical form of healing - massage. I do this too but prefer working with energy work.

[franklin taylor]

Hello
Caro my Uranus/Pluto conjunction is in my 7th h as that house covers an inordinate amount of area in my particular case. My 5th h natal Moon squares that Saturn/Chiron so my life hasn't been "funner than a barrel of monkeys" in the "fun" aspects of house 5 either. I was too shy and pessismistic with relationships with women outside of family ..I had six sisters after all. I literally avoided looking at women in public as much as possible. I was "taken", not courted, nor did I court, ( I did not know how to court) the person I married very much. We married only after three months of knowing of each other's presence in a room (at a technical school) rather than three months of building a relationship, and somehow it lasted for me from age 22 to age 40. It was not at all traditional for the culture here. So there's one expression of 7h Uranus for you. Unordinary relationships.

Kellfire66, you truly have had a unique experience with your music career. How different is that from like a guitarist in a rock or country band? What I am getting at..several local musicians I have known had only very tenative relationships with their girlfriends/spouses. Most I've known ended up marrying at least twice or more times. They are not home at night often and that unbalanced things. Then besides..the "groupie" temptation thing with even certain local women coming on to them. I do not know if classical players have groupies. The ones I have known either give up that part of their lives or they stay and settle down only eventually. When they find the right one who isn't too jealous all the time or he actually cleans up his act. I do know several local musicians. All that said, I mean that musicians too often sacrifice relationships with their chosen life style. It may not be the case with different genres of music. I do know you can heal with music, particularly, if you are able to create it yourself. I have created a few blues melodies and one song with guitar myself.

Sounds as though you have a very good balance there with massage therapy and doing music when you want. That is what is important in life...Balance, and when you have many conjunction in your natal chart, as I have, it can point to someone who could struggle finding it. It causes us to place too much emphasis upon those areas of our lives..mine being the 6th house. I pulled up your chart as well and your first house Neptune can make the native put out the wrong impressions to her social surroundings. Causing many misunderstandings of your true personal intentions.

I also have a friend who is Scorpio Rising and Neptune sits near her ascendant in h1 and is very gifted with Piano and keyboards, is an instructor, performs 2 days a week still, and has a propensity to put out sexual vibes that are not really intentional ..namely, more than a student or two has made unwanted sexual advances upon her in her lifetime as well as in other social situations. Sex and Illusion being keywords of Scorpio and Neptune one can see a fit. Venus is of Sex and Love, but Scorpio is of Sex acts. Do not know if you have any affinity at all with that, but telling you of an example I have studied.
take care
Franklin

[astrologer50]

Hello,
Could anyone explain the aspect of Saturn conjunct Chiron in the Natal 2nd house. The sign so placed for both is Pisces. The orb is three degrees.
I would appreciate any help.
Thanks.
Franklin

Saturn is the Lord of Karma and master teacher, but really he's trying to teach us about ourselves. It wants us to be responsible, hard working, dutiful and learn our Lessons properly, so they won't have to keep being repeated. Therefore, is usually suggests things slowing down, delays, limitations and restrictions so we can learn these Lessons.

What Saturn does is 'test' what is of value to you and what is working in your life. It wants structure and hard work. If something isn't working--- it may well end--- so something better can be put in it's place.

http://www.astrology.com/aboutastrology/interpreting/houses/house2.html

I do wish you had posted your chart--- as we are all visual people here
Uranus, and Aquarius Rising, I guess would mean ..being a little offbeat type of person to approach. I really am the last person someone would think of as Esoterically or metaphysically concerned.
Hey I'm Aquarius rising with pluto/uranus in my 7th like you :love: :love:
I have chiron in 1st in aquarius, this is the 'healers' house, funny I can help other people but not so much myself :unsure:

Chiron thread
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9786 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9786)
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286)
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165)
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11976 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11976)

Further discussions on AW and links from this thread….
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165)
http://www.moonsweb.com/ast/chiron.shtml (http://www.moonsweb.com/ast/chiron.shtml)
http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat01.html (http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat01.html)
http://www.astrotherapy.eu/Chiron.htm (http://www.astrotherapy.eu/Chiron.htm)
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/chiron21.5.html (http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/chiron21.5.html)
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/chiron.html (http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/chiron.html)
http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2009/10/chiron.html (http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2009/10/chiron.html)

[Caro]

Hi franklin

the healing with music was what I was getting at. how greatthat you can write your own music.

I never looked at scorpio rising like that! I see it as quite protective of all my personal planets in pisces.(its squares an aqua sun) I am a caring person but never had anyone make inappropriate advances. Neptune in the first thro my healing studies have accepted this as a gift for me its also trine my saturn in 5th so that maybe makes mea bit more serious when people meetme. So in your friends case she must have something else backing this up in the chart....maybe a square to neptune or something

I thought you may have the opp but Ithink it is Kell66 that has this too.

I agree with Astrologer 50 about saturn also Ihave posted some other stuff about saturn. It can make you work harder and take things seriously but things are worth the wait.

it would be good to see your chart.

best

[franklin taylor]

Yes,
I have learned a lot more about Saturn (for certain) since this question was posted in 2005. Am thinking it was the first or second question I asked on here. What I did in my life was place too much emphasis upon work for my self esteem. That can be easily seen from looking at my 2nd and 6th house. I had it ripped right out from under me when I became very sick from over working... 14-32 hour work days. Every workday was 14 hours. It devastated me to be stripped of it. It was my life's wound. Yes Caro, it was Kellfire that I was talking about her Neptune placements in her chart. I have my chart on the Community thread in Natal Astrology Section. I will say some more in another writting for its quite late.
I'll try to post my chart here though

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=astro_w2gw_01_franklin_hp.22586.21551.gif&res=63&va=&cid=espfileejDMHm-u1116648750
I think it worked actually LOL:)
LOL yes Astrologer50 I have the same thing going often enough concerning helping others heal. I also am bad about ..."If I spot it I got it". LOL When it concerns what I see and dislike in others I find when I examine it, I realize quickly, that often enough, it is because I have or had it and/or had disliked it about myself. This is just a quick note .. for now I have not been able to get Astrology Weekly to open up for a day or two.
Take care
Franklin