My Method 2.0

[Konrad]

I?m starting a new topic for this as my current version of my method is much different to my previous one. I will outline what I do here and then show some examples of it being used.

First thing I do is get the colours and the odds for the teams participating. Colours seem to be a major issue for some people here and elsewhere but there doesn?t need to be such a fuss over them. It?s always a bonus when you have Saturn as one of the four significators, as if one of the teams have black in their strip (that can be something as small as the trim or a number on the shorts) then they are Saturn and it?s partner significator. I will discuss colours more during the worked examples as it is more of a case of which planet fits which stirp relative to each game. The odds are important too but we don?t have to be too caught up with them. Heavy favourites, favourites, slight favourites or even will do.

After I have assigned the colours, I look for applying aspects from the Moon to the four significators within an orb of 7 degrees 15 minutes. I have it set at this as I read that Lilly used an orb of influence of 6 degrees 15 minutes in his horaries and I found my results were good. Observation has forced me to extend that to 7 degrees 15 minutes. We also look to aspects to the antisca and contrantisca but these are only conjunctions. Antisca DO NOT cast aspects. All pretty normal so far.

If we listen to Frawley (something I?m starting to do less and less now) then this form of astrology is ?beneath even horary? in that it doesn?t follow astrological principles. I listened to that and it set me back 4 months of tens of charts a day. Once I treated this as a form of astrology it fell into place. I was puzzled as to how the Moon trining a significator say in Belgium lead to a team winning when they were heavy underdogs but then only leading to a draw for slight underdogs for a similar chart in Poland. The answer is in the house the significator lies in. I see the Moon as ruling the action of the game and when it contacts a planet it activates it. So the Moon trining the significator of a team activates that team but it was clear that they were not being ?activated? at the same strength. The strength then is determined in exactly the same way as all forms of astrology; the house the significator lies in. If the Moon trines Venus while Venus is in the 10th house then it is given a big boost while if it is intercepted in the 8th, then it receives next to nothing. This is very important. This then brought me to question the nature of the aspects. Obviously a trine and sextile are positive for the team as is a conjunction. A square also is but for an opposition, and here comes some astrological principles again, it depends on reception. If we have the Moon in Aries and opposing Mars in Libra in the 10th house this helps Mars alot as Mars receives the Moon by sign. It does not have to be mutual reception, so Mars being in Taurus and the Moon being in Gemini is also good for Mars. However, when there is no positive reception then the opposition hurts Mars, so it being in the tenth house and opposite the Moon with no reception is very bad for Mars. It is the same with the antisca. The moon conjunct the antisca of Mars is good for it and by how much is determined by the BODILY position of Mars not it?s antisca position. If the Moon conjuncts it?s contrantisca then the reception of the bodily position of Mars will tell you if that is good or bad for Mars. The lowest form of reception I have seen to help an opposition is triplicity and remember that is dependant on whether the chart is for the day or night. One thing which is nagging me though, is that I?ve not had a chance to test the effect of negative reception on a square and a conjunction and also the effect of mixed reception on an opposition. The Moon also activates planets which are out of sign of it. This is because I am not moving the Moon to perfect an aspect but I am looking at it?s moiety and therefore it?s influence at that moment.

Next I look for aspects from the significators to the POF. These must be applying and they use the orbs Lilly gives in Christian Astrology. One thing here I?m not sure of is whether the nature of the aspects matter and if reception plays a part. The strength of the boost is determined by the position of the POF not the planet applying. I must say here that the ?five degree rule? does not seem to have any effect, I would, in fact, only limit that to around ? of a degree. So if the POF, or the significator when the Moon is activating, is at 23 degrees of Aries in the 9th house and the MC lies at 25 degrees then it is still in the 9th house and not the 10th.

Just for the record, I use Lilly?s view of the strength of the houses:

? 1st and 10th strongest
? 7th 4th and 11th next
? 2 and 5th
? 9th
? 3rd
? 6th and 8th
? 12th is last

If a planet is being activated in the 6th, 8th, or 12th then I?d say that it?s strength is hardly boosted (or diminished if by opposition) at all. I have found that a planet?s aspect to the POF is stronger than the Moon?s aspect to the same planet when deciding a winner. An intercepted planet not given the same strength it would if it was in the same sign as the sign on the house cusp.

Next I look for planets on the angles by body and by antisca. For this I use 2 degrees inside the house and ? a degree outside. For example, the MC is at 25 38? Aries, Mars is at 26 47? Aries, it is activated as it would be at 25 18? Aries. Now here is where I was mistaken before. If a significator is on an angle and it doesn?t seem to matter which, it is strengthened. Even when that angle ?belongs? to the other team. While I'm almost certain os this, i can be convinced if someone else can demonstrate the opposite to me. The antisca being on an angle strengthens the relevant team also. Again, something I need to test is a neutral planet being on an angle. I?m not sure whether they affect the game at all. My feeling is, that if they did, their essential dignity will tell you how they will affect the angles they are on.

Lastly, I check for fixed stars and outer planets. Fixed stars conjunct or parallel to an angle effect the angle they are on. The positive stars I have found so far are Regulus, Spica and Aldebaran. The negatives are Betelgeuse, Bellatrix and Elgenubi. I think (again I need to test this more) that the three outer planets are malefic.

And that is that for the astrology. Now I look at the teams odds (usually the best indicator of starting strengths but they can be wrong) and give them a starting strength, then I add the strengths in the chart and come to a conclusion. So if we have team A at 1.5 and team B at 4.8, team A are favourites. If team B have one of their significators in the 10th house activated by trine, then I would conclude a draw. If the activation was in the 3rd house intercepted, I would say that team A would win as I don?t think that is enough to overcome the starting deficit. I tend to use numbers in my head to afford strengths but the danger here is if we become too attatched to them. In soccer, if we see the teams are about even after the astrology then usually that is a draw, as there aren?t many goals scored in a game but in a game of Rugby or American football, where we have large points differences, I think we?d have to be more specific.

One last thing. If there is nothing in the chart then usually that means what is expected will happen. I have found this to be correct in 2 out of 3 games. The third game is incorrect for one of two reasons. Firstly, there is something in the charts I have not discovered or secondly the starting odds were in error. I think it could be a mixture of both.

I will get round to posting the charts for the Spanish La Liga games I did last night to demonstrate the application of my method.
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[Konrad]

Here are some games from Spain played last night:

Villarreal vs Valencia

Villarreal are yellow, Valencia are white and black. The starting odds were Villarreal 1.91 ? 4.00 Valencia. There were alot of strange starting odds last night and this was one of them. Villarreal were 7th while Valencia were 3rd. The only thing I can think of was that they favoured Villarreal as they still have something to play for while Valencia had already secured 3rd and could not get any higher. I would make them a little more even.


http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3301/villarrealy.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/i/villarrealy.jpg/)
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First we assign the colours. The significators are Mars and the Sun vs Venus and Saturn. As I said before, any strip with black in it will be Saturn. So Villarreal is Mars and the Sun, Valencia is Venus and Saturn.

The Moon applies to sextile the Sun. The Sun is intercepted in the 6th house, this means pretty much nothing. The Moon has just separated from Venus, so this does not count. I said before that it is the Moon?s influence not it?s movement we are looking at. I still think that we must only look forwards in these charts as we are looking at future events and not anything in the past and besides the reasons, I have tested both directions and found the separated aspects ineffectual for predicting the games.

We also have the Sun applying to trine the POF which is in the 3rd house, so we have a fair indication for Villarreal.

Finally we also have Regulus conjunct the MC thus helping Villarreal. With fixed stars I use an orb of 1 degree either side of the angle.

So, that?s it. We have one fairly strong indication of a Villarreal victory with a positive fixed star on one of their angles. I said Villarreal win.

Result: Villarreal 2 ? 0 Valencia


Valladolid vs Santander

Valladolid played in lilac and white while Santander played in black and green. The starting odds were: Valladolid 2.10 ? 3.40 Santander. Valladolid were slight favourites.


http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2821/valladolid.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/i/valladolid.jpg/)



As before, Santander are wearing black so they get Saturn and Venus, Valladolid get Mars and the Sun.

The Moon sextiles the Sun but this time the Sun is in the 7th house. This is very good for Valladolid. The Sun also trines the POF, with the POF being intercepted in the 10th house. Again, very good for Valladolid. We have the antisca of Mars just inside the 7th house. I took this to be good for Valladolid but, as I said, I?m open to it being good for Santander. Zuben Elgenubi is on the ASC so that helps Santander. I find the fixed stars to be as strong as a Moon?s aspect in the 5th house ? a middle indication of victory. That is all in this chart. Valladolid started as slight favourites and have two big indications of victory while Santander only have one indication of victory. Even if we give the position of Mars to Santander, Valladolid?s indications are too strong.

Result: Valladolid 2 ? 1 Santander

The problem here with Mars is that I need to get a similar situation to be the only indication of victory in a few different charts to really see it?s effect, something I haven?t come across yet. It didn?t matter in this situation though but if the indications were more even, I would have elected not to bet on this game.


Tenerife vs Almeria

Tenerife played in white shirt, blue shorts while Almeria played in red and white. Here we have no black to bail us out but Mars and the Sun are surely better significators of red than Venus and Saturn are. So Mars and Sun are Almeria, Tenerife get Venus and Saturn.


http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9553/tenerife.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/i/tenerife.jpg/)
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Starting odds are Tenerife 1.83 ? 4.33 Almeria. Tenerife are favourites.

In this chart we have only one indication of victory: the Moon sextiles the Sun which is in the 7th house. This helps Almeria. They started out as underdogs and had a strong indication of victory, therefore:

Result: Tenerife 2 ? 2 Almeria


Deportivo vs Mallorca

Deportivo played in blue and white while Mallorca played in black and red. Black = Saturn so Mallorca are Venus and Saturn while Deportivo are Mars and the Sun.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/217/deportivo.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/i/deportivo.jpg/)
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Starting odds were Deportivo 3.00 ? 2.30 Mallorca. About even here, maybe Mallorca slightly ahead.

Again we have only one indication of victory: the Moon sextiling the Sun which is in the 7th house. Mallorca slightly ahead + Deprtivo strong indicator =

Result: Deportivo 1 ? 0 Mallorca


Getafe vs Malaga

Getafe wear blue as do Malaga. I thought Malaga would play in their Pink and Black 2nd kit but they played in their orange 3rd kit and instead of wearing black shorts, they wore white. I had given Getafe Mars and the Sun due to Malaga?s black shorts. Upon watching the video of the match, I was right to as Malaga?s shirt numbers were in black. I know it sounds like I?m clutching a little here but it is the case. I have seen black trim give a team Saturn or even the sponsor?s logo. I can only work from observation and it does seem to hold up. Saturn, at least in Virgo and Libra, is always black.


http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9224/getafev.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/getafev.jpg/)
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Starting odds are Getafe 1.75 ? 4.75 Malaga. Getafe are favourites.

Again, the Moon sextiles the Sun, which is in the 7th house. Also, here we have Zuben Elgenubi on the ASC helping the DSC, or Malaga. We have Getafe with a strong indication and Malaga with a middle indication. Getafe started stronger and are stronger in the chart, so:

Result: Getafe 2 ? 1 Malaga

I do like to think that every game can be predicted but sometimes things happen which challenge that view. For instance, yesterday there were 3 games in Scotland all kicking off at the same time. It was the Sun vs Saturn and the Sun was stronger. Aberdeen (red) defeated St. Mirren (Black and white), Hamilton (red and white) defeated St. Johnstone (blue) but Kilmarnock (white and blue) only drew against Falkirk (navy blue and white). This tells me that either I?m missing something or that not everything can be predicted. I?d like to think the former but we?ll see.

I?d appreciate it if people did test this out, to PM me or reply here with any problems, observations or additions they have.
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[fensi88]

Konrad, thanks for sharing your results with us!!

[Redcar]

Excellent research, Konrad!!

I have also been looking at the house placement lately and would agree that it is often the deciding factor. Would you say that a significator Rx or combust weakens that team? From what I've seen I would be inclined to think so, but you have analyzed many more charts than I have... :-) Also, are you using the different POF formula for nights?

Thank you for sharing your insights with us!!

[Konrad]

I haven't noticed anything with retrograde planets and I'm sure that combustion does affect them - I'm just not sure how close they must be and to what extent it weakens. Again it all depends on finding a few different charts with that only as an indication.

And yes, I use the day/night formula for POF.
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[att75]

"Next I look for aspects from the significators to the POF. These must be applying ... "

If the sig is at 02TAU41 and the POF is at 03SCO27, is this opposition applying or not?

I would say it's separating (as the POF continues on its path as the Ascendant moves), but Frawley says something like 'keep fortuna still, others are coming to aspect it', does this mean that from this point of view, this opposition is applying?

The example is from today's Atletico-Fulham. Actually the sig, L10-Mercury is even stationary...

[Konrad]

Yeah, I'd keep the POF still.

I'm still not sure that the planets are "moving" as such, I imagine it more to be the planet's orb of influence affecting the game. We will see though, as this is the first opportunity I have had to see if a stationary planet behaves in the same way as a moving one. Saying that, the aspect is in the intercepted 12th, so pretty meaningless.

I'd also be aware, if you are betting, that this game can go into extra-time and penalties. I had an AFC Champions League game this morning which, while I predicted a Jeonbuk win correctly, I never got a payout on because it was won in extra-time. I don't think this system is sophisticated enough to distinguish between a normal-time win and an overtime/penalties win. Maybe in the future it could be - the World Cup should be a good test.
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[att75]

I’d appreciate it if people did test this out, to PM me or reply here with any problems, observations or additions they have.

Tonight's Atletico-Getafe match (which ended 0:3) worths a few thoughts, I think. Began at 20:00, Madrid, ASC 09SCO16.

What I found:
- Moon (goes to) sextile L1-Mars which is in the 10th;
- L4-Saturn (goes to) sextile POF which is in the 1st; (or it doestn't? as Saturn is retrograde)
- Mars is near the MC and inside the 10th (Mars 18LEO54 / MC 17LEO13); not that close but inside of 2 degrees;
- antiscia-Mars is near the DSC and inside the 1st (11TAU05 / 09TAU16); not that close but inside of 2 degrees;
- and contra-antiscia of Mars is o/c near the ASC, similarly.

If the game had begun later, these conjunctions would became even more closer. But there wasn't too much delay, I checked the live coverage.

Atletico wore their usual striped colors, Getafe was white, but there definitely was black in their t-shirts. So it makes sense to give Getafe the DSC, Venus, and L4, Saturn. Even without your advice concerning Saturn, I would give Venus to the white team.

But, my problem is, according to what astrology "stuff" I found and listed above, the Mars team was supported quite heavily. And Atletico was beaten heavily, 0:3. That Mars on the angles stuff is quite weak, I admit, but the sextile from the Moon... O/c, there may be stuff I missed.

[Konrad]

I did this game too.

Firstly, Saturn is retrograde, so it's orb goes the other way from the POF.

Remember I said that a significator in an opponents house was meaningless? Well, I was wrong, it is a fairly strong indication for the team whose house is occupied. I have also found that a planet in it's own house is not strengthened much at all.

Here's what I have for this game:

Atletico are Mars and the Sun, Getafe are Venus and Saturn. Getafe start as favourites.

The Moon sextiles Mars in the 10th house. The antisca of Mars is in the 7th house. One thing though. The antisca being in the 7th will always mean that the contrantisca is in the first; it is only one testimony, not two. Finally, the Sun opposes the POF intercepted in the 1st house.

Here we have 1 strong indication for Atletico and two fairly strong for Getafe. Getafe started favourites and they won.

I must say too that with the IC/MC angles changing to Virgo and Pisces in alot of parts of Europe at the time games are usually played, that Mercury is a good significator of black too.
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[James21R]

Who is gonna win the champions league?:whistling::w00t:

[Konrad]

I've not looked at a chart for that game and I probably won't until the day of the game.

Why don't you use the method above, or another on here, and have a look for yourself?
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[att75]

Thx for the answer! It makes sense.

Finally, the Sun opposes the POF intercepted in the 1st house.

I missed this testimony. It's quite a wide orb, almost 6 degrees. You said earlier "Next I look for aspects from the significators to the POF. These must be applying and they use the orbs Lilly gives in Christian Astrology" - I have to look after this.

If the POF hadn't been intercepted, would this have been an even stronger testimony?

Remember I said that a significator in an opponents house was meaningless? Well, I was wrong, it is a fairly strong indication for the team whose house is occupied.

But the closer to the angle the better, I guess?

[Konrad]

Yes, an intercepted planet/point is weaker than if it was in the same sign as the house cusp but you must remember not to de-value it too much; an intercepted angular planet is still stronger than a succedent one. I have also found that aspects to the POF are stronger than equivalent aspects from the Moon to the significators.

I've not noticed anything about the distance of the planet being relevant but again, I could be wrong on that. Only time will tell.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to add a couple of things I've been testing this week.

First is inconjuncts or aspects of 150 degrees. I have found these work and I treat them like squares, in that if there is no, or negative recpetion, they harm the team and if there is positive recpetion, they help the team.

I have also been experimenting with different Arabic parts. I looked at the Part Of Success and I have found it to be very effective but, ironically, the Part of Victory does nothing.

Finally, I found something last night which is quite exciting. I'd still need to test it more but it is worth keeping an eye out for. Last night Tigre defeated River Plate 5-1 in Argentina. The odds were heavily in River's favour (I think this was a mistake as River and Tigre were beside each other in the table) and there was nothing I could see in the chart. What I did notice though, was the Moon aspected Mars in the 10th house. Jupiter was Tigre, in applying aspect with Mars and in strong mutual recpetion (triplicity and face). If this were a horary question, we could say that whatever Mars represents will bestow aid to the querent. In this case Mars bestowed it's strength to Jupiter, helping it to win that match.

The problem here is that it is so rare that a significator is in strong mutual reception and applying aspect with another planet while the Moon is also in applying aspect with said planet. This makes it very difficult to test. It did hold up in the couple of games last night though.
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[Redcar]

Hi Konrad,

have you looked at the chart for the Bayern-Inter CL final?
Jupiter(+ Venus) signifying Inter was opposed by the moon in Ju's detriment
yet Inter won 2-0.
Any ideas what happened or was my analysis wrong? :confused:

Cheers...

[Konrad]

No, you are right so far but Venus inconjuncts (150 degrees) the part of Success (at 4 07' Sagittarius) intercepted in the 1st house.

Inter started favourites and were only slightly behind Bayern, so Inter win.
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[Redcar]

Thank you Konrad! Could you please explain a little more how you use and weigh the Arabian parts (which aspects to use, house placement etc.)?

Your insights are much appreciated. Thanks again.... :smile:

[Konrad]

Sure.

I use the Part of Fortune, the Part of Success and the Part of Victory (although I'm swaying either side on whether to use this or not, I need to test it more).

Here's how I determine how it effects a team:

Conjunction, trine and sextile always good.

Square and inconjunct with positive, mixed or no reception is good.

Square and inconjunct with negative reception is bad.

Opposition with no, mixed or negative reception is bad.

Opposition with positive recepetion is good.

The lowest form of reception that can change an opposition to a beneficial contact is triplicity or BOTH term and face.

The above is also how I determine the Moon's contacts.

I have also noticed that the individual parts have their own dignities, which I read in Anthony Louis' book:

+5 in Taurus and Pisces
+4 in Libra, Sagittarius, Leo and Cancer
+3 Gemini (the lowest sign which can change a negative aspect)
+2 7 to 17 59' of Virgo

-4 Scorpio, Capricorn and Aquarius

Aries is shown as 0, I'd assume that this is because it is ruled by a malefic but is the place where the Sun is exalted.


I also use the antisca of all three parts both their aspects and their position. The body or antisca position of the part helps the team it falls upon but only with an orb of 1 degree inside the house (I'm not sure about outside the house yet).

A sig applying to conjunct the antisca of a part is helped. If the sig is applying to oppose the antisca, it is hindered UNLESS there is strong enough reception.

I use the above parts' dispositors ONLY if they are not being used as significators. Again the above aspects, including reception, determine the contacts. Here, I think, it's the dispositor's house position which determines it's strength not the relative parts position.

I realise the above might not be too clear, so here's a couple of examples to illustrate it:

Last night I saw Mars (in Leo) square the Part of Fortune (in Taurus). This is in Mars' detriment but the fact that the POF receives Mars it nullifies it.

Here's another:

Sig is the Sun in Gemini, the POF is in Virgo. There is no aspect but the Sun is trining Mercury. The Sun is then strengthened by whatever house Mercury is in (I'm fairly certain of this but if it only strengthened by what house the POF is in I wouldn't be too surprised)
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[Konrad]

I was just wondering if anyone can give me a hand here.

I had thought previously that a planet being on an angle affects the game, I'm finding now that it doesn't. Strangely though, the antisca affects the outcome.

My gut-feeling is that since the antisca doesn't move independently, it has an area of effect. What I'm looking for are charts where a sig, or neutral planet, is applying to conjunct an anglular house's cusp.

I've got hundreds of charts saved but unfortunatley I haven't filed them in a way which would tell me if the above is present. If anyone knows, or comes across, a chart of this type, I would be very grateful for the info.
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[Redcar]

Konrad, just sent you an email. Hope I could help.

[Konrad]

Yes, I got it. Thanks very much!
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[Redcar]

Konrad, one of the most important factors in Frawley's method was the moon on the angles greatly supporting the signified team. Have you found that to be true in your experience?
I am looking at the chart of the first World Cup match and was just wondering... :wink:

Thank You!!

[Konrad]

Any planet on an angle is important but only if it is applying to that angle and only for around 3 degrees before the beginning of the house. It's essential dignity at the degree the house begins is how you how it acts.

If we have Gemini vs Sagittarius on the ASC/DSC axis, then we have Mercury vs Jupiter. If Mercury applies to the 7th house, this hinders Mercury. If Jupier applies to the 7th house this helps Jupiter as it will usually be in it's own sign when applying to it's own house.

If Lord of the 4th is applying to the 7th house, then the essential dignitiy of the Lord of the 4th will indicate what it does. Same goes for a neutral planet (inlcuding the Moon).

Watch out for the following situation though. We have Saturn as a neutral planet peregrine at 29 Virgo applying to the 1st house at 2 Libra. Saturn being peregrine should damage the house but here it moves to it's exaltation before it hits the house, so it actually helps it.
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[att75]

If Lord of the 4th is applying to the 7th house, then the essential dignitiy of the Lord of the 4th will indicate what it does. Same goes for a neutral planet (inlcuding the Moon).

And what if it's L10 instead of L4? Isn't that a difference that one belongs to the ASC team and the other to the DSC?

The example: Uruguay-France, L10 Venus is at 26CN57, the 7th cusp is at 28CN21.

[Konrad]

Well, as far as I can see, that puts it under the control of the opposition, so that goes against Venus. Thing is, you can't really be sure with a one-off game, what you really need is this to be in a series of 5+ games all kicking off in the same country at the same time to really be sure.
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[Konrad]

Does anyone know the EXACT kick-off time of the Greece - Korea game today? I know the scheduled kick-off time but I was wondering if it was a little late?
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[fensi88]

I always use this site for that purpose:
http://www.easyodds.com/compareodds/football/internationals/world-cup/matches/p/267770/g/245/south-korea-v-greece.html

Only they have exact kick off time and exact time of start of 2nd half!

[shawn]

i use a 5 degree orb for planets approaching an angle and 4 degrees separating. i borrowed this orb from my friend courtney, and it seems to bear up . this gives roughly a 35 minute window in 'real time' when the influence from planets to angles is at a peak.

[Konrad]

I'm certain that a planet ahead of an angle doesn't affect it at all and almost certain about antiscia, which is why I want to know the exact time of the Greece - Korea kick-off.

Of course, the above is my way of doing it, you're obviously free to do it whatever way you please but I found those orbs to be too wide when I looked at 20+ games kicking off at the same time in England. In England, the charts are almost identical if they all kick off at the same time, maybe only a couple of degrees of difference between them, it was these small differences that explained the games which went against the "pattern" for that day.
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[James21R]

Who is gonna be in the final?

[Konrad]

North Korea and Tunisia. The final score will be 13-3 to North Korea - you should go and bet your computer on that.
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[Konrad]

I'd like to show some games from last night, played in Sweden, which demostrate the orbs around the angles and also the lack of a "5 degree rule".


First up is Brage vs Syrianska. Brage play in green and white with a little black around the socks, Syrianska play in red and yellow. In this match, and all the others I will show, the teams start around equal.




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In this chart Brage are Mars and Mercury while Syrianska is Venus and Jupiter.

The Part of Victory and Part of Success stay in the exact same position for all these games +/- a few minutes. The Part of Victory is at 28 Taurus 13 while the Part of Success is at 4 Aquarius 21.


I've started to use declinations in my astrology and the simplest way to find them is to use an astrology program rather than a free, on-line chart generator. Here the Moon is parrallel Mars but as it is intercepted in the cadent 9th house, it means virtually nothing. Parrallel is equivalent to a soft aspect, contra-parrallel is similar to a hard aspect, I've not had a chance to test reception's effects on these yet but, in this example, it doesn't matter. The second and final indication here is Venus opposing the Part of Success with insufficient reception to soften that. It is intercepted in the 2nd house and only 0 55' from the 3rd house cusp. Using traditional sources, that would mean that it behaves as if it is in the 3rd house but if that were the case then it would not be enough the give a team a win (that will be demonstrated in the next chart). I see it as still being intercepted in the 2nd house.


The antisca of the Part of Victory is at 25 Scorpio 39 and at 3 28' from the house cusp, is too far to indicate anything.

As we have a minor testimony of victory for Brage (Venus opposes the Part), I agve them a slight victory and they won 2-1.

Trollhattan played in black and white, Falkenbergs play in yellow, white and little black. This gives us Trollhattan as Mars and Mercury and Falkenbergs as Venus and Jupiter.




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Everything is as it was above apart from one thing: the Part of Victory is fully in the 3rd house now and it being cadent means it loses it's potency. This makes this chart almost equal and, in my experience, cadent indications usualy mean the team can't quite get the job done. Of course, many cadent indications stacked against no indications in an equal match can get a narrow win but here? No. It finished Trollhattan 1 - 1 Falkenbergs.


Next is Jonokopings vs Degerfors. Jonokopings play in green and white, Degerfors pay in red and white.




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The significators here are Mars and Mercury for Jonkopings and Venus and Jupiter for Degerfors. Here it is as it was in the first chart, an intercepted 9th indication and an intercepted 2nd indication. However, the cusp of the 1st house is at 23 Scorpio 50, it is now only around 1 30' away from that antisca of the Part of Victory. Now who does that help? An error I was making before I realised it was so, was that the Parts were always benefic. I don't believe they are. This Part is in a malefic-ruled sign, therefore giving it a malefic flavour. I find the position of the antisca of the Parts to be equivalent to somewhere between a succedent and an intercepted angular indication. As this Part is negative for the ASC team, this outweighs what they have previously. I said win for Degerfors and it finished Jonokopings 1 - 2 Degerfors.


Finally, we have Vasby vs Osters. Vasby play in green and white (Mars and Mercury) while Osters play in red and blue (Venus and Jupiter).




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This chart is almost identical to the previous one. Therefore I expected that the Venus/Jupiter combination would win out. It finished Vasby 1 - 3 Osters.


I'm not convinced that the closer the antisca to the angle, the more strength it indicates as it doesn't hold up consistently which tells me that it doesn't mean a thing but, like everything, that can change if there is enough evidence.
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[Bulletbobb]

With regards to Shawn's post about the 5-degree rule, this is an example of mixing apples and oranges.

In the method Shawn uses, one works with the natal charts of various players, and then progresses the chart up to the estimated end of the game and evaluates the aspects present at that time. It is a completely different approach than Konrad's.

I agree with Konrad that the 5° orbs are way too wide. I have experimented a bit with Shawn's method, and I found that the angles contact the relevant planets almost exactly, provided a) one knows the correct time for the end of the game, and b) one uses the converse transits, as these aspects are just as likely to show up as the direct.

The precision of the contacts is quite extraordinary, provided the above
caveats are observed.

Bob

[Konrad]

Bob, or Shawn, how much does the accuracy of the predictions using natal charts depend on getting the time of the finish of the game exact?
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[Konrad]

Oh, and to avoid confusion, my debate of the "5 degree-rule" was in reference to traditional horary sources claiming that a planet 5 degrees before a house cusp is taken to be in that house rather than Shawn's use of orbs in his method.
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[Bulletbobb]

OK, so I added another level of misunderstanding to what was already in place!

To answer your question, it depends on how you're using the natal chart. In Shawn's method it all hinges on the EOG time, because the decision is based on the aspects formed by the transiting angles at the EOG.

In my methods the EOG isn't too important because only the Moon and Fortuna move fast emough to see the EOG at all, and even then they aren't too sensitive. They both move at about a degree every two hours, so if the EOG is off by ±15 minutes it doesn't make too much difference.

I believe your soccer games have a very well-defined length, and they start at well-defined times, so you should be able to estimate the EOG within ±5 minutes. The same seems to be true for hockey over here.

You might want to try a chart or two, just for educational purposes. The accuracy of the contacts can be extraordinary, generally with a degree.
Just be sure to use the direct and converse transits, and turn on the EP, as it is a significant angle. Not as strong as the others, but not weak, either.

Bob

[att75]

Hello Konrad,

I have two questions. :)

1)

As for the Part of victory, is it calculated as
day -> ASC + Jupiter - Part_of_success_day /
night -> ASC + Part_of_success_night - Jupiter ?

If not, then what is the correct formula, or the one you are using?

2)

Did you follow the Germany-England game today? Bloemfontein 16:00. In your opinion, was the main testimony here the square of Saturn-POF, POF being in the 7th, Saturn in the 10th? I guess the L7 team was Germany, black-white, Mercury and Saturn.

It's interesting that Regulus was on the MC, Neptune on the IC, so if my who-is-who is correct, there were testinomies to England as well. But this planet-POF aspect in angular houses - looks like serious stuff!?

[Konrad]

Hi,

firstly, we need to know the Part of Spirit to work out the Part of Victory. The POS is the POF reversed, so the POS for a day-time chart is the POF night-time formula (ASC + Sun - Moon) and the POS night-time is the POF day-time (ASC = Moon - Sun).

The Part of Victory for a day-time chart is: ASC + position of Jupiter - the Part of Spirit (day).

The Part of Victory for a night-time chart is: ASC + Part of Spirit (night) - Jupiter.

The Part of Success for the day-time is: ASC + Jupiter - POF (day).

The Part os Success (night) is: ASC + POF (night) - Jupiter.

As you can see it gets pretty complicated which is why I'd advise an astrology chart generating program, once you know how to work it out by hand, of course.

As for the Germany game, I have Germany as Mercury and Saturn and England as Jupiter and the Sun. As you rightly state, Saturn squares the POF in an angular house giving Germany a huge boost. In an even chart an unanswered angular indication tends to be worth a couple of goals to the affected team.

I have abandoned the outer planets here - I don't think they have any effect on the game and I have limited the orbs of fixed star conjunctions to 0 deg 10', so Regulus isn't activated here.

I think fixed stars are the ingredient I was missing in my chart readings and I, quite luckily, stumbled across a list of 290 in my astrology program. I am currently in the middle of testing hundreds of charts to see the effects of these on the football matches. Currently, I have a list of around 40 that effect the games. These are mostly made up of the stars which are said to give honours, success and military skill for the positive indications while the negatives ones are the stars which are said to denote disgrace, ruin and shame.

Actually one of them was parrallel the ASC in the England game; Minkar, which is of a Mars and Saturn nature and, obviously, a malefic.

I am working hard on these stars and once I am satisfied with my list, I plan on putting up a web-site out-lining my method more fully and, probably, some YouTube videos too. That will have to wait until I've worked through more games though.
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[att75]

Thx for the answer!

> I plan on putting up a web-site out-lining my method

Good idea!

> As you can see it gets pretty complicated which is why I'd advise an astrology chart generating program

Software is needed for sure, when I was experimenting with your method 1.0, I used a home-made primitive program to ease the calculations. :) The chart points came from my astro software o/c.

[shawn]

konrad,
i give you tons of credit for working so hard to perfect your methods. i used a horary approach to forecasting winners for quite a while myself, but finally abandoned these efforts as being too difficult.
the methods i learned from courtney are certainly not perfect either, but seem quite a lot simpler to me as i just use basic astrology principles and do not look at it from a horary perspective at all.
to answer your question, yes, if we can accurately predict when the end of the game will be, then my forecasts are much more accurate. some sports, like american football and basketball are more likely to end after a predictable duration, while baseball is harder, because this sport is not timed.
if you ever look at actual end of game charts you will find that angular uranus is more likely to end in an upset or near upset, which is useful in wagering. i also like to put the charts of the coaches and captains around this wheel and see how the end of game chart affects them.
if the natal sun of one of the coaches or captains is culminating at the end of the game then this is a good indication of success for them, although this is certainly not foolproof!

[CamMathmo]

The Part of Victory for a day-time chart is: ASC + position of Jupiter - the Part of Spirit (day).

The Part of Victory for a night-time chart is: ASC + Part of Spirit (night) - Jupiter.

The Part of Success for the day-time is: ASC + Jupiter - POF (day).

The Part os Success (night) is: ASC + POF (night) - Jupiter.


The effect of these definitions is that during the day the Part of Victory and the Part of Success do not move with the ASC (as subtracting the PoS and the PoF respectively removes the dependence on the ASC), but during the night they both move at twice the speed of the ASC. So at sunset they both, suddenly, start moving fast having hardly moved during the day! Does this make sense? :unsure:

[Konrad]

It makes sense in that the terms you describe above are the cause for the differing rates of movement but I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at?

The Parts themselves have no movement, they are points in the sky relative to the positions of other bodies and other Parts. I've not had much of an opportunity to research their origins or their original uses but I have studied their relevance in these election charts and I'm happy to use the formulas above.

Again, I'm not entirely sure if you're making a point about the use of different day/night formulas or just making a general observation. :)
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[CamMathmo]

I'm not entirely sure if you're making a point about the use of different day/night formulas or just making a general observation. :)
Sorry, I should have made myself clearer. I am wondering about the day versus night formula. It seems strange to me that during the day these two parts do not move with the asc and in effect are almost stationary, but during the night move at twice the speed of the asc. This leads me to suspect that the parts of Victory and Success do not reverse at night. Yes, use the reversed formula for the parts of Fortune and Spirit within the calculation of Victory and Success, but don't reverse the formula for Victory and Success.

The rational for reversing Fortune and Spirit at night is that these are calculated from the Sun and Moon, and at night the Sun and Moon reverse their roles, so the formula are reversed and the Sun and Moon swap places. There is no such rational for swapping the roles of Jupiter and the Part of Spirit, or Jupiter and the Part of Fortune.

Of course, the only real test of this is to see how the two versions perform in practice. :smile:

[Konrad]

Of course, the only real test of this is to see how the two versions perform in practice. :smile:

I agree completely. As it?s summer right now, the testing on the night formula has been restricted to a few World Cup games, where it does hold out, but I've learned not to rely on just a few games for this sort of thing, the coming season will reveal it one way or the other, I'm sure. :)
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