Retrogade Jupiter

[Shining Ray]

I have Retrograde Jupiter in my 11th House so for the meaning of this planet would it mean a more inward perspective on the sign and house matters. In astrology books they never list the meanings of planets retrograde in houses.

I have also read it is the personal planets which hold more significance because of the outer planets moving more slowly. Venus for example would have more difficulty receiving or giving love if retrograde.

What would be the meaning of my retrograde Jupiter in Leo 11th House.

Shining Ray

[Howl]

Wow, [Shining Ray - I don't know what to call you now, can I shorten you to Shine?? :D] you ARE on a crusade to reinstate senior forum status ;) well, I am on a crusade to avoid my reading work, so I shall reply...

Jupiter: expansion, learning, generosity, abundance, benevolence
Retro: experiences (more) internally, indirectly, introspectively
11H: social conscious, ideals, individual contribution to society, philanthropy
Leo: Leadership through self expression, courage, creativity

There is my brainstorming. Now to interpret....:confused:

I agree that Jupiter is more of a 'teacher' than a personal force. It doesn't belong directly to you in the way that mars or venus, etc, do.

I think you could learn, and benefit (jupiter) from your individual contribution to social causes (11H), in line with your ideals (both jupiter and 11H).

Okay, that's a non-specific reading, not taking into account anything that I know about you. It's a very broad idea. Basically I see that Jupiter's energy could be very easily expressed in the 11H through personal generosity according to your social ideals. Both 11H and Jupiter are idealistic, no?

Retro in leo is causing a bit of a mental crossed-wires for me. Both 11H and Leo are rather 'out there', socialised parts of a chart. Jupiter in leo (with 11H considered) might suggest something very boisterous with friends you meet through voluntary association (activism/political group/social group/volunteering etc) and with you taking somewhat of a "larger than life" leadership role. Somewhat of an ideological crusader :D But I don't picture you quite like that. If you are to be an influential figure through social association, of any kind, my guess is that it's likely to be in a more self contained fashion. You may be inspired by ideals, yet not a soapbox grand-stander (as Jupiter in leo are apparently apt to be!!) because yours is retro.

Does the idea of learning, and expressing humanitarian values through (generously) donating your efforts in social associations sound like you? I love the eleventh house :D Here is the best description of 11H I have ever read:

http://www.lightofisis.com/Astrology/houses11.htm

Oh, and what can your new nickname be? Or are you definitely Shining Ray, all the way :)

[Howl]

PS - also just noticed, it's your only planet in the transpersonal/universal houses, perhaps it indicates your sense, or an avenue, for connecting to broader society. You have a focus on 1H/7H, your self and interpersonal relationships. Actually, your role on the forum is an 11H kinda thing :D

What aspects to Jupiter do you count? My guess is that Jupiter's lessons are about things like: learn to be generous, as well as experiencing others' generosity; learn to trust others, and yourself. Maybe aspects to Jupiter will suggest areas where this is relevant?

[Shining Ray]

Thanks for helping me Howl. As for my Retrograde Jupiter, if I read textbook readings of this placement. It would not describe me at all. I am not a larger than life person among social groups. I can count my friends on one hand.

You have seen my chart with Saturn placed in Virgo in the 1st house. Sun opposed Saturn. Most of my planets are in passive signs. All over a quieter personality. It makes sense that my Jupiter is Retrograde otherwise it wouldn't fit in with my chart.

The description does sound like me in as much expressing humanitarian values generously through social groups but in an inward way like you said. Yes the only group activity I have is here on Astrology "community" which involves a group of people and I am not having to express myself outwardly. But a more inward expression to groups.

My aspects to Jupiter where I should learn my generosity to social groups are:

I have Jupiter trine my Moon/Mercury in the 7th house Pisces. It is a disassociate aspect because Jupiter being in Leo and Moon/Mercury Pisces. It says in Astrology aspects by Sue Tomkin's that the disassociate Trines are more dynamic. ( I like my disassociate Trine now :D )

(For your Venus Square Pluto Howl, I think this aspect was disassociate wasn't it. Sue Tompkins states the disassociate squares are less stressful than ordinary squares. She says disassociate aspects of all kinds usually call for more subtlety of interpretation. I am booting you out of the Venus Square Pluto club now Howl you have it easy you don't have to suffer like me and Milkywaygirl. :D )

My Moon/Mercury conjunction trine Scorpio/Uranus in the 3rd. This would indicate my Astrology interest. Computers and talking via Internet.

Jupiter opposes my Venus in the 5th house Capricorn. I will have to have a good think on how to piece all this together. Lots of different factors.

P.S You know your Astrology Howl would you use it professionally or is it a more of a hobby.

Shining Ray

[Shining Ray]

Also on my new name people may think I am a man now, Tim called me Ray in his reply. I am never happy am I well that will teach me for changing it. :D

Shining Ray

[freedomlover]

Are you reading my mind today, Shining Ray? Several of the posts you've made today seem to draw out what my issues were.

Anyway, on the subject of Jupiter retrograde..... I have Jupiter retrograde at 28* in my 6th house. It is opposite my AC at 3* Capricorn, and trine my MC at 25* Libra. The only aspects made to it other than these are as follows (according to astro.com): Uranus Virgo 19* in 8th house sq Jupiter (r) Gemini 28* in 6th and a couple of minor aspects, which I don't know what the symbols mean, but are made by Vesta at 12* cancer in 7th, and Vertex at 13* Leo in 8th. Interestingly enough, Pluto is directly conjunct Uranus in the 8th (Uranus 19* and Pluto 18*), but it is not listed as aspecting Jupiter. In my chart, only one aspect line is drawn, and that is from Uranus to Jupiter. Any thoughts on this one? Jupiter really stands out in my chart, and I have had a whole lot of trouble with my mind and body, as would seem fitting that is Gemini in the 6th house, huh?

Can anybody please help?


11-28-65 9:32am Charleston, WV USA

[wilsontc]

Freedom,

You have an unaspected Jupiter (expansion, also wisdom), which indicates you do not "connect in" to Jupiter energies. This could result in a desire to learn as much as possible in an attempt to "connect in" to learning energies. The challenge is to accept that you ARE learning, but may not be able to directly be aware of your learning. Since your Jupiter is conjunct (energy is combined with) your Descendant (others), others may be able to help you understand what you know in some way.

Guessing,

Tim

[Shining Ray]

Here is some more information on Retrogrades.

Retrogrades and You

Retrograde planets - what do they mean?


Apparent motion of a faster moving planet passing a slower planet
Energy patterns you wish to repeat this lifetime
Planet appears more subconscious
They are not the step-children in your chart


Retrograde planets - why do I have them?


Points out a planetary concern you wish to complete
House location is where you are repeating a life lesson
Where it rules is also a location of concern
Gives information of past life lessons


Retrograde planets - what can I do with them?


Delineate the planet by aspects to other planets
Separating aspects are past life experiences, applying aspects are this life's lessons
Accept the planet as an old friend
Recognize your unique method of working with this energy


Mercury


A gift of "knowing"
Learn to trust intuition
Absorbs knowledge rather than learns it
House where Mercury falls is the area of prior knowledge and where you choose to play it out this lifetime


Venus


More subjective in their desires, who and how they love and concerns for financial freedom
Doesn't want to play by society's rules
Wants to do "their own thing" without judgment


Mars


Takes a different course in life
Would rather take an indirect approach to life behind the scenes
Can not be pushed into action
Succeeds in life left to their own instincts


Jupiter


Person seems to turn inward in their expression
May be conflict in religion or beliefs
Has learned the lesson of "when to go for it" and when to "lay in wait"
Inwardly optimistic individual


Saturn


Seeks a different type of responsibility and purpose in life
Builds character to accept small gains in the long process of success
Fears about having a sense of security needs to be addressed
May be challenged by authority figures or father


Uranus


Feels more in control
May appear to be more orthodox
Insights into spiritual law
Works within society's rules
Can develop principles of knowledge easier for the masses
Past life has readied them for the unexpected


Neptune


Gives a passion to serve the need to be needed
Spiritual warriors of the universe
Can call upon the mystic side of the universe for guidance
Learned the expression of service in the last lifetime
Through sacrifices the person feels loved and useful


Pluto


Brings in more souls because of duration of retrograde period
Group comes to change the world
Can control intense energy
Manipulates in covert ways without the desire to be in charge
Wants to be part of the changes in the world


In Closing


Retrogrades are an important tool
House placement and where it rules
Retrogrades should feel like an old friend
Retrograde planets separating aspects, are past life experiences
Retrograde planets applying aspects are new life experiences


Shining Ray

[Shining Ray]

Also on Jupiter in 11th. Does the 11th house rule step children. My partner and I have a child together. My partner has a daughter from a previous relationship. His daughter is my Son's half sister.

Jupiter in Leo 11th opposes Venus in Capricorn 5th. Would you think this Jupiter represents my partners daughter in my life. Or am I completely off track here. My partner's daughter is a Leo.

Shining Ray

[Shining Ray]

Also just thought my son is represented by Venus in my 5th house. My 5th house is ruled by Capricorn my Son has Capricorn Moon he is overall a very earth child. The link up to Jupiter in Leo 11th, could be his Leo half sister. This is all beginning to fit together. I am quite amazed if this is true.

Shining Ray

[23]

I didn't know that step-children is ruled by the 11th but you are right from my glance on the net. So by looking at your 11th, it just indicates what type of child it would be if you were to have step-children.

In your case, she might be larger than life or overwhelming or maybe physically large even that happens to be jolly or humourous and that has probably a leo bent to her personality - entertaining, demanding, loving, arrogant etc. It being retrograde maybe means that she turns this inside.

[Shining Ray]

Wow 23 you have just explained this little girls personality exactly. She is not on the Large side but she overeats. She can be overwhelming entertaining and demanding. 23 I have been reading a lot of your posts lately and I have to say your always right you make very good points.

Shining Ray

[23]

Wow 23 you have just explained this little girls personality exactly. She is not on the Large side but she overeats. She can be overwhelming entertaining and demanding. 23 I have been reading a lot of your posts lately and I have to say your always right you make very good points.

Shining Ray

Thanks, I just have to thank you and others for being my lab rats! :) Practicing on others and myself helps me get my concepts. I am still very junior though, I still don't understand the physical aspects of astrology and feel that I don't understand basic stuff though.

[Shining Ray]

Hey your doing fine. Very good. Thanks for calling us Rats :D . Just kidding but you are a natural at Astrology although you do doubt yourself there is no need. You always pick up on loads of things I miss in the Birth Chart. I do have to work on my analyzing details (North Node Virgo).

Shining Ray

[Shining Ray]

More information I have found on the Retrograde Jupiter

Expansiveness of Jupiter is turned inward. Seeking answers within. You need to grow within before seeking growth in the outside world. The planet is more inner directed. You are Revaluating how the planet is being used.

Before externalizing this planet a great deal of INTERNALIZING is needed first. Only when the internal work is dealt with, can a retrograde once again become outer directed. This can take a lifetime for some.

Jupiter retrograde speaks of a deep introspection of the higher mind. You have "A private sense of faith".

Jupiter retrograde suggests a former incarnation where you may have been violated or denied the ability to convey your spiritual conviction. In this life you are quite determined to express the value of what you believe in to yourself, more than anyone else.

Sometimes you can lose your own good self in group involvements. There may be a reluctance to express your more individual desires because you are afraid of standing out or being censored by whatever group it is you identify with.

Shining Ray

[Howl]

Would you consider Jupiter retro as in any way similar to Jupiter conjunct Nadir? The references to internalised/introspective connect with my idea of Nadir as the inner world....

[Virinchi]

wow ! this is what i was lookin for :)

[wilsontc]

23,

You said:
...I didn't know that step-children is ruled by the 11th...

This is an example of "derived houses". Derived houses are house meaning created by counting the houses in the chart beginning from some place other than the Ascendant. The 11th house is the house of "step children" because the 11th house is the 5th house (children) away from the 7th house (relationships). So the children (5th house) of our relationship (7th house, here used as the "1rst house") is in the 5th house from the 7th house (the 11th house).

In a different house,

Tim

[freedomlover]

Shining Ray,

I found this information you quoted on this thread. Was there anyone in particular you were posting this for? When I read it, it felt like it was speaking directly to me. I had also had an epiphany yesterday about a prior incarnation in which I was violated/suppressed in this manner. EERIE!!!


"Expansiveness of Jupiter is turned inward. Seeking answers within. You need to grow within before seeking growth in the outside world. The planet is more inner directed. You are Revaluating how the planet is being used.

Before externalizing this planet a great deal of INTERNALIZING is needed first. Only when the internal work is dealt with, can a retrograde once again become outer directed. This can take a lifetime for some.

Jupiter retrograde speaks of a deep introspection of the higher mind. You have "A private sense of faith".

Jupiter retrograde suggests a former incarnation where you may have been violated or denied the ability to convey your spiritual conviction. In this life you are quite determined to express the value of what you believe in to yourself, more than anyone else."

"Sometimes you can lose your own good self in group involvements. There may be a reluctance to express your more individual desires because you are afraid of standing out or being censored by whatever group it is you identify with."

I really feels this applies to me, but am still unsure in what specific way. Anyway, thanks for the post!

[freedomlover]

Could anyone shed any specific light on the one aspect to retrograde Jupiter in my chart? It is listed as Uranus in Virgo/8th square Jupiter (r) Gemini/6th. However Pluto in Virgo is only separated from Uranus by 1 degree, and so is in a tight conjunct. (8th ruled by Leo) How could this combined energies be squaring my Jupiter. I really feel that this is a major, major stumbling block for me.

I have been meditating on some issues, and I was wondering if this could be connected:

I began reading about the age of 2. By the time I was in first grade, I could pretty much read - with pretty good understanding -about any adult level book put in front of me. I had a photographic memory, and could recall detail with computer-like accuracy. I was always top in my class, but never studied. I soon discovered that people either really admired me for this - or really were jealous and hated me for it. I was always known and labeled by people for my intelligence. I seem to remember somewhere about mid-teens starting to be very uncomfortable with being pigeon-holed this way.

Also, my mother was extremely proud of my intelligence, taking every opportunity to show me off. She also started pushing me to go to college in my mid-teens, but I had no desire to go ( and still don't, and don't regret it). I know my gift had its advantages, but I had no desire to build the foundation of my life on my intelligence, which is what my mother wanted for me.

My intelligence became a double-edged sword for me - a blessing and a curse.

Through the course of my illness the past several years, these abilities had shrunk to barely a shadow of what I was capable of before. As I mentioned in a previous post, a few months ago, I was at times, having problems putting coherent sentences together. My recall ability is much diminished. I usually feel that there is a "clamp" on my mind, and I almost feel "retarded" at times. I have a terrible problem retaining new information. It's like I get very little comprehension of what I read, or it only sticks with me for that day, and by the next, I've forgotten it. If I didn't keep a journal of things I've learned, I would probably not recall much of it from day to day.

For some reason, I keep associating this with my Jupiter retrograde in 6th in Gemini.
Also, 23, I believe, kept pointing out all the squares to my Mercury (r) in Sag in 12th.
Also, Jupiter and Mercury almost form an opposition?

Any thoughts?


Also: I progressed my chart, and the retrograde Jupiter is now in my 4th house @23 Gemini, and is directly opposing Mercury (r) on 10/11house cusp @0 Capricorn. The whole progressed chart is very interesting.....I'm checking on how to get it displayed.... sigh

[Shining Ray]

There does seem to be a lot of mental stress in your chart. You are overdoing it. You have a T-square in your chart, between Mercury Saturn and Uranus this alone must be placing a heavy nervous/restless energy to the mind.

Then you have to take into consideration your retrograde Jupiter in Gemini 6th. Squaring Uranus in Virgo 8th (more mental stress again) both ruled by Mercury in the 12th which is involved in this T-square.

Please correct if I am wrong, I am not used to working with T-squares, very new.

I will try to interpret your Jupiter for you, but I am only learning so please correct me on anything you think I am wrong about.

You are so generous with your readings around here, so I will try to attempt it.

Shining Ray.

[Shining Ray]

The presence of Jupiter expands the mind. Faith for you is through gathering information in order to weave it into a comprehensive whole and attain understanding. What you have to watch in all of this "gathering" is that you don't get sidetracked by all the distractions that you unavoidably encounter in your interests and travels. These qualities of faith and understanding become critical issues for you with regard to health and work.

What you have to watch out for is mainly overworking or overly concerned with getting it right for this itself can lead to health trouble.

Regarding your Uranus in Virgo changes in work life and health. New requirements and stresses arise and certain occupations and treatments become obsolete.

With all this you have the urge for change and awakening, and the freedom that comes with them, makes itself felt in areas of your life relating to intimacy and sexuality, joint or others resources and hidden causes. These areas are usually very fraught with intense passions and emotions which are hard to control. You are trying to gain some detached, scientific objectivity in all this, and more often than not you have to find just that by being flung into the deep end.

So problems like divorce, tax, or property problems and death itself, present you with the challenge of being detached but not totally unattached, which would pose an emotional problem itself. In the process you can become quite the troubleshooter with respect to such problems, discover important secrets, and ultimately get into the clear as suddenly as you got thrown into the pit.

As if to counter the possibility of your beliefs becoming too dogmatic, you are occasionally but unexpectedly stormed by ideas that make mincemeat out of your former opinions. Paradoxically, the force of such ideas can make you dogmatic about them! You are nothing if not opinionated, but then your philosophy of life is sharp and lively, and up to the minute-but inherently ever changing.

So trying to put all this together - Expanding mind of gathering information and trying to put it all together into a comprehensive whole. There is a lot of overworking the mind. But then you have this tension with Uranus which is looking for awakening and freedom. I think this may be the double edged sword because you gather all your ideas together and Uranus totally changes all your former ideas. Stormed with ideas at one end and as said above totally making mincemeat of what you formerly thought.

I think Uranus may be causing the trouble with putting sentences together Uranus seems to be disassociating from your mental faculties causing difficulty concentrating and with short term memory. A false detachment.

With Jupiter you are internalizing all of this. Not sure if you can make sense out of this you might gain some new ideas on the problem.

Shining Ray

[Shining Ray]

Mutable T-Square

Carol Rushman Art of Prediction- People with Mutable T squares also have an energy to achieve but it is more conscientiousness. These are the people who dot their i's and cross their t's. They're highly creative and flexible. I have noted many times they are adult children of alcoholics, or there is some issue around drugs, addiction or weight management in their environment (often connected to the parent or sibling). The mutable T-Square child is many time the hero-child of a dysfunctional family. Often these children come from single parent homes where they had to take a lot of responsibility as a young child.

They are chameleons who absorb energy and reflect it back. On the plus side, mutable T-Squares can often create a drive for perfection, enormous creativity, and a great versatility. All T-Squares are distinct drivers for good or bad.

Just a little information on a Mutable T.Square again you may already know this. The thing when relating information to people you are unaware if they have it or not.

I just thought I would throw this in. I do this myself just add random information in the hope of bringing it all together.

Shining Ray

[freedomlover]

Thanks for the insight, Ms. Ray.

That does pretty well sum it up. I am under extreme mental stress, and have been for years. And you described one of my biggest problems very well : A storm of ideas on one hand, and somethng making mincemeat out of them on the other. I can have a total epiphany and be completely clear and then later in the day, I find that a "cosmic eraser" (as I call it), has wiped out the remembrance of what I was formerly clear on. Thus I am thrown back into the whirlpool. Like I said, if I didn't write it down, I would have little or no recall of things at all.

Also, I should probably mention that alot of this is, ( I think) "channeled information", downloads from someone on the other side who wants me to have this information. It is very helpful and full of light. Yet I think I have a fear of this process of getting information. I don't know where it comes from.
Or maybe it's just that the information I'm being given isn't "sticking" to me, like I'm subconsciously rejecting it, even though I know it's good.

Just theorizing.... (sigh).....


p.s. Are you quoting from a book? If so, would you mind telling me which one? It sounds good.

[Shining Ray]

Yes I quoted it from the book by Lyn Birkbeck The instant Astrologer. I also have his other book Enlisting the Aid of Planetary powers Divine Astrology. I personally highly recommend them. He is my new favourite Astrologer. I will be getting his other books when I have the money.

Shining Ray

[23]

23,

You said:


This is an example of "derived houses". Derived houses are house meaning created by counting the houses in the chart beginning from some place other than the Ascendant. The 11th house is the house of "step children" because the 11th house is the 5th house (children) away from the 7th house (relationships). So the children (5th house) of our relationship (7th house, here used as the "1rst house") is in the 5th house from the 7th house (the 11th house).

In a different house,

Tim

I get what you mean.
I was hypothesising before I read your response that it might have had something to do with being simply on the opposing side of the chart, in that they are not necessarily part of you (not your creation, you didn't get birth to them) but are still a part of your closest community if you know what I mean.

[Shining Ray]

Hey 23,

That is exactly what I thought it was, I was thinking well opposite your Ascendant is you partner. Opposite money is other people's money, so I also thought opposite your own children is other children. Although I can't remember how you count your own children through the chart. I have it in a book somewhere.

Shining Ray