Part of Conception

[Cosmiccradle]

Part of Conception doesn't exsist, children, sexual relations, what have you does. I am asking the well learned astrologers on this board...If you were to calculate the Part of Conception, what would you use in your calculations. The calculation must be for both day and night. Any input would be appreciated.

[Veronica]

Part of Conception doesn't exsist, children, sexual relations, what have you does. I am asking the well learned astrologers on this board...If you were to calculate the Part of Conception, what would you use in your calculations. The calculation must be for both day and night. Any input would be appreciated.
I've never really checked, part of conception, although for children I always look on the sign or planets in 5th house... or house cusp sign . the sign or planets usually have the characteristics of the first born, or the first child sun sign is usually the Ascendant of one of the parents... I've checked natal charts of friends of mine with children and very accurately it shows the sign of the first born.

[Cosmiccradle]

I've never really checked, part of conception, although for children I always look on the sign or planets in 5th house... or house cusp sign . the sign or planets usually have the characteristics of the first born, or the first child sun sign is usually the Ascendant of one of the parents... I've checked natal charts of friends of mine with children and very accurately it shows the sign of the first born.

Then if I understand you correctly part of your formula would be Asc+Cusp 5-? Would I be correct in assuming that?

[beatnikgirl]

I would think perhaps 5th house Personal Point Moon as the significator and -Jupiter the trigger. But I'm unsure if you can take a personal point as a house cusp. I'm sure have read somewhere Asc Personal Point + Significator Rulers Moon's house - Moon is part of birth, So Perhaps Asc Personal Point + Significator Jupiter - 8th house. Anyone else got any ideas.
Check out this site http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

[Cosmiccradle]

I would think perhaps 5th house Personal Point Moon as the significator and -Jupiter the trigger. But I'm unsure if you can take a personal point as a house cusp. I'm sure have read somewhere Asc Personal Point + Significator Rulers Moon's house - Moon is part of birth, So Perhaps Asc Personal Point + Significator Jupiter - 8th house. Anyone else got any ideas.
Check out this site http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php (http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php)

You've lost me, using the term Personal Point, are you using that to exspress a planet or house cusp or something else?

[dr. farr]

There is an (historical) Lot of Conception:w00t: It is in Paulus Alexandrianus (Greenbaum, "Late Classical Astrology) so was known at least as early as 378 AD. I am startled to discover it is a Sun/Mars Lot! (no Moon, no Venus, no 5th-or 7th-house "cusp")

Formula is:

Asc + Mars-Sun (day; reverse for night)

I shall post some additional considerations regarding this matter over the next couple of days.

[Cosmiccradle]

There is an (historical) Lot of Conception:w00t: It is in Paulus Alexandrianus (Greenbaum, "Late Classical Astrology) so was known at least as early as 378 AD. I am startled to discover it is a Sun/Mars Lot! (no Moon, no Venus, no 5th-or 7th-house "cusp")

Formula is:

Asc + Mars-Sun (day; reverse for night)

I shall post some additional considerations regarding this matter over the next couple of days.

Interesting, I agree with you, 4, 10, 5, 7 make sense even the Asc. but I can't place Mars and the Sun. But let's be honest, their insight to things were based on other perceptions long lost. I will look into this, I love a challange. Thankyou.

[twinfins]

Part of Conception doesn't exsist, children, sexual relations, what have you does. I am asking the well learned astrologers on this board...If you were to calculate the Part of Conception, what would you use in your calculations. The calculation must be for both day and night. Any input would be appreciated.

Hi!

The part of conception does not exist in contemporary astrology though it is referred to in some of the ancient systems and a similar technique is employed in Vedic astrology.

Sources to check out: Vedic ast. Navamamsha. (similar concept to the arabic parts).

Hermes Trismegistos: fragments of Gnostic astrol writings.

Contemporary authors such as A T Mann (The Round Art) have attempted to devise other methods (imo not worth following).

I am currently writing up a method for peer review which is based upon the natural symbolisms already inherent in astrol itself though this is merely theoretical and I have not yet been able to put it to the test.

In conclusion I would like to say that this, if correct, would put a halt to the skeptics' claims re astrol in general. i.e. If astrol has any scientific basis then it ought to be based rather on the conception than the birth.


http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif twinfins

[Cosmiccradle]

Hi!

The part of conception does not exist in contemporary astrology though it is referred to in some of the ancient systems and a similar technique is employed in Vedic astrology.

Sources to check out: Vedic ast. Navamamsha. (similar concept to the arabic parts).

Hermes Trismegistos: fragments of Gnostic astrol writings.

Contemporary authors such as A T Mann (The Round Art) have attempted to devise other methods (imo not worth following).

I am currently writing up a method for peer review which is based upon the natural symbolisms already inherent in astrol itself though this is merely theoretical and I have not yet been able to put it to the test.

In conclusion I would like to say that this, if correct, would put a halt to the skeptics' claims re astrol in general. i.e. If astrol has any scientific basis then it ought to be based rather on the conception than the birth.


http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif twinfins

If I'm not mistaken with all the three that you mention you're talking about the conception horoscope. I've researched all three, I like Mann's work, which is based on time. Hermes, if I'm not mistaken is the father of Bailey's work, The Pre-Natal Epoch, and the Navamamsha (correct me if I'm wrong) is partially used to find the sex of the unborn. One of the things that is interesting in astrology is that we start the count when we are born, when in reality we are already 9 months old. There's an interesting progressive sytem used here in Holland call the -1 system. In other words one year is subtracted for all directions and progressive dates.

Please stay in contact with me, I am specializing in the Pre-natal epoch and any thoughts or support in furthering my research would be appreciated. I see that you already have a good background in your thinking as to conception and astrology and what you have read.

having said that, if you had to develope a Part what would you take into the formula?

[twinfins]

Hi CC!

Yes, I was indeed referring to the Conception Chart though not in the sense of this being a separate entity. All of the information neccessary for determining the conception point of any radix is already contained in the Natal chart; remember, astrology is a cyclical phenomenon, and any one point, such as the birth, is merely a point in the progression of the cycle.

The Vedic Navamamsha is, as you say, used to calculate other points, including according to some, past lives and karmic trends, but it can also point to the conception point of the radix. I have not used this technique myself, it was just something I came across in my own research, from A T Mann as it happens, but is is very similar to the calculation of many arabic parts such as the Part of Fortune etc. For the conception point it is a simple matter of bringing the Ninth house cusp to the Ascendant and moving everything else around accordingly. You will see then that the Ascendant's new position is at the cusp of Cancer/Leo; between the domains of the Moon and Sun; the fertile Mother.

I would urge some caution with regards Mann's ideas as I have found his work to be a little sloppy in some respects; though beautifully presented it unfortunately has the ring of 'New Age' ultra-liberal thinking and imho if we are to bring Astrology to the point of scientific respectability, we have to be scrupulously methodical and rigorous.

It is difficult for me to say too much about my own work and conclusions at this juncture as I am submitting parts of it for review. As soon as I have some response it will be openly and freely published for the benefit of all.

Kindest Regards tf

[Cosmiccradle]

Hi CC!

Yes, I was indeed referring to the Conception Chart though not in the sense of this being a separate entity. All of the information neccessary for determining the conception point of any radix is already contained in the Natal chart; remember, astrology is a cyclical phenomenon, and any one point, such as the birth, is merely a point in the progression of the cycle.

The Vedic Navamamsha is, as you say, used to calculate other points, including according to some, past lives and karmic trends, but it can also point to the conception point of the radix. I have not used this technique myself, it was just something I came across in my own research, from A T Mann as it happens, but is is very similar to the calculation of many arabic parts such as the Part of Fortune etc. For the conception point it is a simple matter of bringing the Ninth house cusp to the Ascendant and moving everything else around accordingly. You will see then that the Ascendant's new position is at the cusp of Cancer/Leo; between the domains of the Moon and Sun; the fertile Mother.

I would urge some caution with regards Mann's ideas as I have found his work to be a little sloppy in some respects; though beautifully presented it unfortunately has the ring of 'New Age' ultra-liberal thinking and imho if we are to bring Astrology to the point of scientific respectability, we have to be scrupulously methodical and rigorous.

It is difficult for me to say too much about my own work and conclusions at this juncture as I am submitting parts of it for review. As soon as I have some response it will be openly and freely published for the benefit of all.

Kindest Regards tf

All astrology must be tackled with a grain of salt, and all astrologers must be their own best critic. I agree with you on Mann, however having said that I must also add that in any presentation and calculation some truth can be found, it is finding that truth and proving that it can be used for all horoscopes is what I am searching for. The problem with the different techniques is that it does not apply to all birth times, and that is something I find disturbing.

As far as sharing goes, that's your call, with me it's more your opinion to different approaches and calculations and what you think of them, I will get a list off to you as soon as possible with all the different conception horoscope techniques and what your opinion of them is. There are quite a few.

Thankyou for your reaction.

[catastrophe]

I read somewhere that when a woman gets pregnant, the sign at the horizon becomes the child's moon sign, and the current moon sign becomes the child's ascendant

Don't really know how this can be seriously determined or if it even is able to but thought I'd throw that out there :w00t: :whistling:

[dr. farr]

You will find that many of the Lots have multiple potential applications (see, for example, the appendix in the Greenbaum book regarding duplicate Lots); while Paulus is not explicit in the exact meaning of "conception", the Greek word placed next to the English word (in the Greenbaum translation) clearly indicates the intent relates to an ability/possibility for conception, in the reproductive sense of that word.

[Cosmiccradle]

Using Cornell, and let me say when I came across this work is became sowhat my bible (no disrespect to Our Lord) but you have to admire this type of work. I would go for....

Spermatozoa: Jupiter and Venus
Spermatozoa reception of: Moon
Ovum: Venus
Conception: Moon

Jupiter + Venus - Moon = conception for both day and night

However I do feel that missing the 5th or Lord of the 5th does raise questions. Although the 5th rules children in general, in paticular it only covers the 1st. That would mean the second would use the 7th or lord thereof, the third the 9th or lord thereof, and so on.

Bills

Spermatozoa: Venus (Jupiter, Sun)
Ovum: Venus
Conception: Moon ( 5th, Venus)

Jupiter + Venus - 5th = conception for both day and night.

See above for second and third child etc.



.

[dr. farr]

I find your suggestions very creative and definitely worth experimenting with!
(By the way, Cornell is a "bible" for me as well; I also have notes/documents from the old Southern California Astro-medical Club-1920's-early 40's-of which Cornell was a member: very interesting-and entirely unknown-material)

[Cosmiccradle]

I find your suggestions very creative and definitely worth experimenting with!
(By the way, Cornell is a "bible" for me as well; I also have notes/documents from the old Southern California Astro-medical Club-1920's-early 40's-of which Cornell was a member: very interesting-and entirely unknown-material)

Thankyou dr. Farr, there's a site where alot of interesting old astrological works can be found...http://www.scribd.com/ that is if you're interested in lost and nologer tangible material. I believe, if I remember correctly Jupiter is called the "Life Giver" and "the Giver of Children" in astrology, in that sense it is fitting that it should be part of the formula.

[jack10]

i need a conception calculator (http://www.pregnancybabytoddler.com/conception-calculator/)