What's the difference?Many questions?

[joyrjw]

A while ago I placed a post with my natal chart attached and I asked what my chart said about my career. Today, I tried a different kind of house system and tried using Koch. My planetary placements shifted pretty dramatically and I was wondering if I should follow this placing instead or if I should continue to use the other system, which, I think,is/was placidus,but I have to double check. If I follow the koch system what is my chart saying now? It appears to be based primarily on creative pursuits, which is what I've been pursuing.:smile:Before it seemed to be somewhat creative, but more towards psychological,and health based objectives. Is it saying that what I'm doing now is definitely correct and my intuition is leading me down the correct road? I'm a little puzzled now. Please, somebody, guide me. :smile:

[joyrjw]

Thank you for your advice EJ53. :smile:

[dhundhun]

A while ago I placed a post with my natal chart attached and I asked what my chart said about my career. Today, I tried a different kind of house system and tried using Koch. My planetary placements shifted pretty dramatically and I was wondering if I should follow this placing instead or if I should continue to use the other system, which, I think,is/was placidus,but I have to double check. If I follow the koch system what is my chart saying now? It appears to be based primarily on creative pursuits, which is what I've been pursuing.:smile:Before it seemed to be somewhat creative, but more towards psychological,and health based objectives. Is it saying that what I'm doing now is definitely correct and my intuition is leading me down the correct road? I'm a little puzzled now. Please, somebody, guide me. :smile:

Astrologers moved from equal house to Placidus to Koch to improve on prediction.

For Natal,
- Placidus is most popular in Western Astrology
- I find Koch better for house progression. Angle of Placidus and Koch are same
- Few people feel equal giving better result.

It is personal choice of an astrologer.

[joyrjw]

Well, thank you for your advice, I realize it is quite a controversial subject. Have a good day! :smile:

[astrologer50]

the attachment you posted is just data and we are all visual people and need to see charts pls?

I use Equal House system and am a modern astrologer. Lots of people that come into Astrology get their free charts calculated at www.astro.com (http://www.astro.com/) and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all that there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few more.

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology)#Description (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology)#Description)
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp (http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp)
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm (http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm)

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'

[freedomlover]

I use Placidus, and find it to be very accurate. Using Koch changes my 3/9 house cusps from 23' Pisces/Virgo to 10' Pisces/Virgo. That's a BIG difference. I've watched transits through these houses, and it seems like there is more of a change at degree 23 than at degree 10. For this reason I use Placidus. I'm speaking of transits to natal chart - don't know if it would be the same with progressions and such or not.

[joyrjw]

Hello again,
:smile:I've attached my chart if you want to look at it. I'm sorry, I thought the data would be more helpful:smile: I'll try to get a better chart if you don't like this one either.
Now, what if the chart under the Placidus system doesn't entirely fit the person, like me for instance. What if having a bunch of planets in my fifth house seems to fit me more? Does it mean that I'm still wrong in choosing the Koch system? I want you to know that I'm not arguing, I'm just asking, I'd like to find the best chart for me. I wouldn't have gone in search of answers if there hadn't been such a drastic change in my chart when I tried the Koch system. A lot of the things in the Placidus based chart described me quite accurately,but it didn't explain why I love being surrounded by music at all times, why I enjoy dancing,singing etc. why children act the way they do towards me(almost like I'm one of them),among other things, until I read it in the Koch system. That's why I'm asking questions.:smile: Otherwise, I'd be satisfied and continue with what I have. I will respect any advice,explanations or other wise that come my way. By the way, thank you for the links and the advice, I will look into them.

[freedomlover]

Well, there are lots of different house systems for a reason. Obviously one house is not best for everyone, or everybody would be using that house system. I say use the one that you resonate with and feel most comfortable using. I was commenting on my personal experience with transits, which is involved in prediction, and was especially directing this at dhundhun's previous comments on the subject. Sorry for the confusion.

[joyrjw]

What you say makes sense.It would like no two people are alike, right? I 've noticed that there are quite a variety of house systems. Out of curiosity,I tried the equal house system too and I got the same results as the koch system. I thought that was interesting. :) No confusion. :biggrin:Thank you for your advice.:)

[astrologer50]

What you say makes sense.It would like no two people are alike, right? I 've noticed that there are quite a variety of house systems. Out of curiosity,I tried the equal house system too and I got the same results as the koch system. I thought that was interesting. :) No confusion. :biggrin:Thank you for your advice.:)

Your chart is so very unclear with all the asteriods in there and very messy. What I can't tell cos the image is to small is the degree of your planets. Anything within 5' of a house cusp moving anti clockwise is considered to have more effect in the next house along. Unless you are very experinced, I would suggest leaving the asteriods til last on your learning program.

You may also like to research your pluto being a singleton being the only planet in air -- as your chart lacks this element

[joyrjw]

Thank you Astrologer50 for telling me. I uploaded another chart. Hopefully this one is better. I was having some trouble creating a clearer one.

[astrologer50]

You still have all those asteriods on there -- go back to astro, Extended chart selection and un clear the box for adding asteriods.....

[joyrjw]

Sorry Astrologer50, I get carried away.:)

[astrologer50]

My planetary placements shifted pretty dramatically and I was wondering if I should follow this placing instead or if I should continue to use the other system, which, I think,is/was placidus,but I have to double check. If I follow the koch system what is my chart saying now? It appears to be based primarily on creative pursuits, which is what I've been pursuing.:smile:Before it seemed to be somewhat creative, but more towards psychological,and health based objectives. Is it saying that what I'm doing now is definitely correct and my intuition is leading me down the correct road?
Your Mercury and mars would be considered to be conjunct 6th house cusp and considered more effective in 6th --- so the energy (mars) and communications (mercury) would or should always have an interest in health, being of service to people and energy put into work and relationships with co-workers.

Your stellium planets in scorpio cannot be ignored and sun conj mars suggests you can be wilful, mars conj mercury can be argumentative. Through in the grim stubborness of scorpio about wanting to get your own way in 5th 6th house matters :whistling:
http://www.therealastrology.com/HTML/FAQS/AspectPatterns.html#Stellium

Your saturn is the most challenged planets as Apex to T Square and the squares to mars/mercury create frustrations, stop/go situations.
http://www.therealastrology.com/HTML/FAQS/AspectPatterns.html#T-Square

house meanings
http://www.astrologyzine.com/what-is-a-house-in-astrology.shtml (http://www.astrologyzine.com/what-is-a-house-in-astrology.shtml)
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/EmptyElement12.1.htm (http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/EmptyElement12.1.htm)
http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/dkfoundation/BookKarma&NewDirections.htm (http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/dkfoundation/BookKarma&NewDirections.htm)
http://www.gotohoroscope.com/houses-in-chart.html (http://www.gotohoroscope.com/houses-in-chart.html)
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h1.html (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h1.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology))
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_house2_e.htm (http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_house2_e.htm)
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houses.htm (http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houses.htm)
Natal chart aspects
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sunaspects.html (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sunaspects.html)
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html)
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/planetsaspectsastrology.html (http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/planetsaspectsastrology.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_aspect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_aspect)
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_aspect_e.htm (http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_aspect_e.htm)
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectsreference.htm (http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectsreference.htm)
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectssun.htm (http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectssun.htm)
http://www.therealastrology.com/HTML/FAQS/AspectPatterns.html#Stellium


Now, what if the chart under the Placidus system doesn't entirely fit the person, like me for instance. What if having a bunch of planets in my fifth house seems to fit me more? Does it mean that I'm still wrong in choosing the Koch system? I want you to know that I'm not arguing, I'm just asking, I'd like to find the best chart for me. I wouldn't have gone in search of answers if there hadn't been such a drastic change in my chart when I tried the Koch system. A lot of the things in the Placidus based chart described me quite accurately,but it didn't explain why I love being surrounded by music at all times, why I enjoy dancing,singing etc. why children act the way they do towards me(almost like I'm one of them),among other things, until I read it in the Koch system

The only way you can decide which house system works for you is research. In my own chart Equal house the planets are in the right houses, in placidus they moved TWO whole houses from 4th to second. There are plenty of threads on here discussing house systems, just use the 'advanced search' feature using keywords like google.

"The 5th House is one of the houses of Relative consciousness and in this area of the horoscope a person becomes aware of himself in relation to others. In its own house, the Sun focuses a person’s attention on himself and his own creative accomplishments, which he then displays in order to receive endorsement from others.
The challenge for all people born with the Sun in H5 is to keep sight of the infinite number of ways in which creativity can express itself and avoid becoming identified prematurely with one particular form of creative expression, through a hunger for recognition"
http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/dkfoundation/BookKarmaHouse5.htm

[joyrjw]

Hi Astrologer50,

I didn't even think that mercury and mars were both on the cusp.DUH! :biggrin: That definitely explains a couple of things and perhaps why I am a little confused,but becoming less confused by the minute.:wink: You're right I am willful and when I feel like I'm on right path and sometimes when I'm not(which I watch myself with) I get very driven(scorpio probably) and enthusiastic(gemini?). I tried both the Equal house system and as you know, the Koch system and they both came out the same,but as you were saying,in Placidus they move a lot. Thank you for doing all this, you're a huge help. I am leaning towards the Koch or Equal house chart though. I've been looking information up on the internet and my sun being in the 5th house would explain a lot about me. Also, even with being on the cusp, Mercury and Mars in the 5th would explain a lot too.Can a person, attract Leo people, or Leo influenced people if they have a lot of planets in the 5th house? Anyway,I am still going to/am do/doing research though and take a look at the links that you sent me. I've been looking all over for good information,but seach engine links are so vague. Thank you again for your help, I think you're a nice person. :biggrin:

[astrologer50]

The relationship houses are 5th and 7th. You may well 'take on' the Leo flavour also. I have 3taurean planets in 4th house naturally ruled by cancer and am very much a 'home bird' family orientated, work from home etc. Water planets don't mix well with fire planets/houses. So although you want to or think you are a very private person (scorpio stellium) the Leo influence and 5th house matters is where you 'function' shine and fulfil yourself in 5th house matters.

Having the ruler of 7th Jupiter placed in 12th is not great for marriage and suggests much behind the scenes and hard to define types.
Karen Hamaker for instance says that our need and attitude towards a partner is connected with our need for privacy and total merging with the partner on a soul level and a rich inner life instead of worldly needs, (like the sexual side of love I presume.)

Like ruler of 12 in 7, it can show extremes of course. Because the vague, formless 12th house has to give direction to a relationship which can cause confusion no doubt. The result of this combi usually is unrealistic, very idealistic views of how a relationship should function and we know how unrealistic that is

Also the self sacrificing side of the 12th house creeps in of course and often you see the person with this placement marry someone out of pity (perhaps even marrying a disabled person) or because they know subconsciously that their partner needs them, so the relation to the partner can be like a nurse instead of a real partner on the same level.

Even if this is not the case, then the person with this placement still needs occasional retreat from the relationship which will be very beneficial to the relationship. Danger again is, that the partner might not understand this, confusing this attitude for "she/he is not really in love with me".

So all in all it is difficult to give form to a relationship, avoiding to fall in the over romanticized view of a relationship.

Very positive sides are the fact that the relationship is incredibly deep and there is often strong telepathy between the two people involved. The person often does not know where this strong bond comes from. I guess the 12th house, being the house of karma, maybe suggests that the bond is from a former life. It is an ideal placement for people who want to live a relationship whereby inner life and strong spiritual level is the most important thing

[joyrjw]

Astrologer50,

I definitely understand about fire/water not mixing.:eek: I suppose that's why sometimes, without meaning to, I make people uncomfortable or they "react" to me, I can't explain it. It's not one the most favorite things about the impression I make on people,but such is life.(hee hee)
I can also see the other thing you're talking about in area of relationships. I am married(since 2002,together since 1999) My husband and I had and still sometimes have some problems. I used to be much more idealistic. It's not something I was "aware" of I guess, so once I realized I was doing it, I started working on it. :smile: We do have a strong connection, so much so that we have had conversations in our sleep and we can sometimes hear one another's thoughts. I can feel his feelings,but I do that with everyone.:biggrin: My husband is an aries with a leo moon and leo ascendant.:eek: :) That's a lot of fire.
May I ask what made you talk about matters of relationships? Is it because the 5th and 7th houses pertain to relationships? It was helpful though that you mentioned it. Thank you. Relationships haven't also been my forte.:biggrin:

[joyrjw]

By the way Astrologer 50,

I think that it's really cool that you have your business at home. I think that would be a wonderful thing to have. I just had to say that.:)

[astrologer50]

May I ask what made you talk about matters of relationships? Is it because the 5th and 7th houses pertain to relationships
Well it's hard not to with your stelllium in 5th. this house also covers 'friends of the heart' whom you love. One to one relationships like marriage are 7th (with or without a piece of paper) are next stepping stone. My partner has ruler of 7th in 12th and it's prob the most difficult to assess-- that's why I elaborated a little.

There are many views that having ruler of 7th in 12th is doomed, secret liaisons, affairs and such like, I was giving the more positive side (if there is one) and you seemed to identify with this. Your honesty and descriptions may well help others who have this placement.......

Relationships have not been my forte either, but I have the divorce planet Uranus in my marriage house --- been married 3x but married last one twice

[joyrjw]

Astrologer50,

:o No, I guess it isn't exactly easy to ignore my house placements.(hee hee) Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate the elaboration, it helps me understand and recognize things I ordinarily wouldn't focus on at this time and also I was just curious. :smile:I'm really glad I could/can/maybe will help.I'm sorry that you have that particular aspect, it sounds really frustrating.:annoyed:
It's probably a silly question. Does Uranus in the 7th house cause instability? Like sudden changes in the relationship? Would it do the same thing for the 5th house if that's the case? I read that Uranus in the 5th house causes a person to not be able to stay in a relationship or at least be loyal sexually, is this true? Or is it just the ruler of the 7th house in the 12th aspect that gives problems or both? Uranus is an odd planet, isn't it?:sideways: Please excuse all the questions. I read information on the internet,but what I read seems lacking or hollow in some way, so I prefer to get a kind of second and much better opinion from people/persons with "experience" so to speak. I think it's nice that people developed astrology, it gives us a sort of map of ourselves.Thank you for explaining and have a nice day! :biggrin:

[joyrjw]

Astrologer50,

I like your little animated arrow guy.:biggrin:

[astrologer50]

Astrologer50,

Does Uranus in the 7th house cause instability? Like sudden changes in the relationship? Yes, it is a 'divorce aspect' along with lots of others, particularly venus square,conj, opposite uranus
Would it do the same thing for the 5th house if that's the case? NO I read that Uranus in the 5th house causes a person to not be able to stay in a relationship or at least be loyal sexually, is this true? Sex belongs to 8th house. lots of things can suggest infedility

Or is it just the ruler of the 7th house in the 12th aspect that gives problems or both? Uranus is an odd planet, isn't it?:sideways: Please excuse all the questions. I read information on the internet,but what I read seems lacking or hollow in some way, so I prefer to get a kind of second and much better opinion from people/persons with "experience" so to speak. I think it's nice that people developed astrology, it gives us a sort of map of ourselves.Thank you for explaining and have a nice day! :biggrin:

"Fifth house play and self-expression is happy hunting grounds for Uranus. Creativity and change are the bywords of Uranus in the fifth. You take great pleasure in doing things differently. You are naturally creative and find it easy to implement change. As a teenager you may decide to date an older person. Your love relationships will always start with a twist. Charming and zany in love, you will create your own world with ease. Your love of freedom will make you choose activities that may sound weird to others. You will go about life with zest and find challenges in all that you do. Others will find your offbeat lifestyle stimulating."
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/uranusinhouses.html

the 5th is also the house of creativity, children, self employment, love affairs. So you could have unexpected birth or freaky being twins.

Houses: angular houses 1/7 4/10 the energies of planets placed here are obvious cos it's your 'shop window' visible for everyone to see. Next the succeedent houses 2/8 & 5/11 the energies in these houses are not in shop window the are in the shop, but stood behind the counter, ready to come out when needed. Lastly, cadent houses 6/12 & 3/9 these houses/planets are not in shop window or stood behind the counter, they are in the back storeroom and only come out when 'triggered' or an emergency and much harder to recognise and access...

The houses are like the backdrop of a stage, the setting if you like, the planets are like actors and the aspects are how the planets behave in that settings/stage....

Then we would look at how Uranus is aspected, yours being square to Saturn. I call this Freedom (uranus) v convention (saturn) or doing something unusual in a structured way or doing working hard at something unconventional. Then you could look at where Uranus rules in the chart ie; Aquarius/9th house matters.


Researching rulers of houses will help you understand more where I joining the dots so to speak
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/rulersofhousesinhouses.html (http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/rulersofhousesinhouses.html)
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrology/housesDerived.htm (http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrology/housesDerived.htm)
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houserulerships.htm (http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houserulerships.htm)

[joyrjw]

Astrologer50,

Wow! Uranus in the 5th house has most definitely got me pegged.:) No twins or unexpected births,but with my life, you never know. I have a basic understanding of the houses,but it's true I do need to have a better understanding of how to blend everything. I like how you describe it though, it gives me a better "visual".I've heard that explanation before,but not in the way that you state it.:)
I'm glad that you pointed out the Saturn square Uranus aspect, it's interesting and makes a lot of sense. Is it possible that aspect can cause a person to feel out of place with what would be considered a regular job? Or does it just pertain to doing something unusual in a structured way or doing working hard at something unconventional? I have Uranus trine my Ascendant and my Midheaven, would that have something to do with it? I found these explanations on sky view zone.


Uranus trine Ascendant
You're a character. At least that's the first impression other people get. Even within the confines of a group, you stand out as unique in some way. When all is said and done, your will is the last word. You have an unpredictable streak in you and other people find you exciting because they never know for sure what you'll do or say next.
Uranus trine Midheaven
Uranus in Conjunction, Trine, Sextile to Midheaven

Your highest attainment, which often takes the form of career, may well be what one would describe as either ahead of the times or unusual in some way. Given a choice you'd rather be your own boss and there is a strong potential for owning your own business. Stuffy working environments are not for you and if you find yourself assigned to a conservative, subordinate position you'll eventually find a way to break free.

As you can probably tell, I'm going through a time of introspection. I feel like something is changing in my life.
Aspects to Chiron would probably tell me if I'm going through changes, am I wrong in assuming this?
Please excuse me, I'm having a little trouble focusing, so if what I type is scattered, I apologize.:)

[astrologer50]

Joy, It's not uranus trine Asc, MC that could cause a problem but Neptune squ MC. Trines (120') are easy aspects, it's the squares that cause a problem
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_vocation2_e.htm

"This aspect can indicate extreme insecurity and self-doubt, unless your parents and other influential adults make a special effort to reinforce your self-confidence. When you meet a difficult person or an obstacle, your first tendency is to run away, because you feel that you cannot overcome it. This is probably not true, and you must learn what you really can do, instead of limiting yourself to the few tasks that you are not afraid to do."
http://westrology.wikia.com/wiki/Neptune_square_Midheaven

http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/aspectsneptune.htm

Aspects to Chiron would probably tell me if I'm going through changes, am I wrong in assuming this? No not really. If I were you, look at what T Pluto is doing --- conj natal venus

"Your romantic life, social life, and value system are undergoing a complete transformation with Pluto transiting conjunct natal Venus. You are seeking depth of experience in your social and love relationships with Pluto transiting conjunct your natal Venus; or, this kind of experience comes into your life now. Someone may enter your life now, or circumstances arise, that completely changes your outlook, alters your value system, or consumes much of your time, thoughts, and energy. Intimacy, passion, and intensity is what you seek (or these find you!)."
http://www.cafeastrology.com/plutotransits.html

[joyrjw]

Astrologer50,

Thank you very very much for your help and guidance.
I don't know if you celebrate it ,but HAPPY EASTER! :biggrin:

[Kannon]

Joy, the most important thing to do if you want information from houses, is to first verify that Gemini on the Asc fits you. If you were coming to me as a client, I'd know that before doing anything else. Houses are meaningless unless you first verify the Asc sign AND degree. Having said that, I only use Placidus. Koch does not give as consistent results. They sometimes agree generally in terms of house placements, but when they disagree, Placidus matches the life thrust of the individual in question when both systems show interceptions of signs in house pairs.