If I Apply, Will I Be Selected?

[Arian Maverick]

Hello, everyone! :smile:

I recognize that I probably should have posted this chart sooner, had I truly desired to receive feedback that would prompt me towards action. Since the deadline is mere days away, and I have no desire to write a frantic application, this is a question posed more out of curiosity--sort of a "What if?" I am almost afraid to ask for the same reason I am afraid to apply; I fear the answer may be no. Nevertheless, I must know to the extent I am able to know, with that tantalizing possibility of error.

I don't wish to provide too many details since I'm a bit embarrassed by it all, but recently I received a letter from my college which informed me I was a candidate for some honor. It's not a scholarship, although I may have been eligible for a scholarship if I were selected. Money's not the main focus here, so I don't think this is an eighth house matter.

Now, to the chart. The late Ascendant may indicate that I already have made a decision regarding this matter--that I will not send an application, so nothing will come of this chart. I am signified by the Moon in Cancer in the twelfth house, which seems appropriate because I essentially am hiding myself. The twelfth house is also known as the house of one's undoing, and in a way, my refusal to submit this application is a form of self-sabotage.

I am having difficulty determining whether I should consider Jupiter, the ruler of the ninth house, since this is a matter pertaining to higher education, or to Saturn, the ruler of the seventh house because if I had applied, I essentially would have competed against others. So is this a matter of weighing my strength against the other candidates? If so, my significator is in the sign of its rulership, while the significator of the other candidates would be exalted Saturn in Libra. If I consult Ptolemy's Table of Essential Dignities (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html), I see that I have dignity through rulership but not through triplicity, term, or face. However, it may be of note that I am in Jupiter's term, since Jupiter is the ruler of the ninth house. Saturn, meanwhile, is exalted in Libra, and it also is in its own triplicity and term. Do I assume, then, that I am the weaker candidate and that I would not have been selected? Or is this method of interpretation incorrect?

Thank you in advance for any assistance you may provide.

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/630/valedictorianhorarychar.png (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/valedictorianhorarychar.png/)

Arian Maverick

[Ebenia]

I would consider looking at the 9th house and it's ruler Jupiter and Jupiter is making a trine to the moon (you), so I would say YES.

I think that the Pluto opposing Moon (You) means issues with being scared and trying to hold on to things, try to control the situation and which you are doing by undoing yourself...That is control too, even though it will not usually come to a good end...

[starlink]

Hello Beth, what I can see is that indeed you have made up your mind already about this which is exactly what you wrote. You dont want to apply but what would have happened if you would have.


Jupiter is making a trine to the moon (you)

No Ebenia, sorry to have to correct you here. Moon is the faster planet of the two and has already passed the trine to Jupiter you see. So this would mean a "no" to the question as it is a 9th house matter.

Mars retrograde in the 1st house is, according to William Lilly, also not a very promising position. Mars rules the 10th house of success and the retrograde motion shows a moving away from anything public.


Do I assume, then, that I am the weaker candidate and that I would not have been selected?

Indeed, you can look at the 7th house for possible other candidates and we should be comparing Saturns position with the Moons. Now there is something interesting going on here. Moon is very strong in own sign but in the house where Saturn finds it's Joy and Saturn is exalted, but retrograde!) and positioned in the house where the Moon finds her Joy. I have difficulties to interprete this. I am not all too fond of an exalted planet to be honest, because it shows a person who looks better than she or he in reality is, whilst the rulership to me shows more honesty and prominence. An exalted planet can be faced with desillusion. Saturn being in Moons house of Joy, could spoil the fun for the Moon maybe? and the Moon being in the 12th is bad as it is anyhow, so from that point of view I would say that the Moon is indeed the weaker of the two. But Saturn is retrograde. What does that mean? Would that candidate have retreated? Jupiter is not making any aspect to Saturn either. The only thing possible is that the Sun will translate the light from Saturn to Jupiter via an inconjunct aspect which is sparsely used in Horary and which would show that there could be a lot of weighing out things before the other candidate would be taken as a candidate. Maybe because of that, this candidate will retreat.

Yet another way of looking at it is maybe by taking the 3rd house as the application and then see if it will be taken into account by the university, so then we get Mercury and Jupiter. But here we see the Sun blocking the way. Mercury cant get to Jupiter because of Sun's interference. Also, Mercury is already within 17° away from the Sun and approaching. So Merc is under the Sunbeams and will go towards combustion. So all in all I would give it a "no". I think your gutfeeling was right AM.

PS. I just saw something. When you look at how the matter will end, we see Venus ruling the 4th house and exalted in Pisces in the 9th and the Moon going to apply to Venus by trine, so maybe there is still a chance you might have been chosen. Really sort of confusing this chart!

[starlink]

And Mars is retrograding towards a sextile with Saturn (the other candidate) and Mars rules her/his house of how the matter will end. So it gets even more complicated when you keep on looking. Maybe a Mars-Saturn sextile is not such a great things, two malifics.....

[Arian Maverick]

Hello Beth, what I can see is that indeed you have made up your mind already about this which is exactly what you wrote. You dont want to apply but what would have happened if you would have.

Actually, I overcame my initial reservations and applied at the last minute. Or rather, several people talked me into it.

No Ebenia, sorry to have to correct you here. Moon is the faster planet of the two and has already passed the trine to Jupiter you see. So this would mean a "no" to the question as it is a 9th house matter.

I noticed this, as well, but I didn't realize it indicated a "no" answer.

Mars retrograde in the 1st house is, according to William Lilly, also not a very promising position. Mars rules the 10th house of success and the retrograde motion shows a moving away from anything public.

Good observation. This theme seems to be indicated in my 2010 solar return chart, as well, which has an emphasis upon the twelfth house.

I am not all too fond of an exalted planet to be honest, because it shows a person who looks better than she or he in reality is, whilst the rulership to me shows more honesty and prominence. An exalted planet can be faced with desillusion.

Perhaps this is true, although I like to think otherwise. I have been very active on campus through the honors society and the student ambassador program, and I also have represented the college at various conferences. I was very honest in my application regarding my motivation for applying. I don't desire personal recognition as much as I desire the opportunity be a representative of my graduating class, who stands with her peers rather than above them. I hate insincere people, so if my motivations were impure, I would not have applied. Indeed, I deliberated as long as I did because I needed time to discern my motivations.

Saturn is retrograde. What does that mean? Would that candidate have retreated?

This happened two years ago, so it is possible.

Thank you for your input. I will keep you posted.

Arian Maverick

[Neptune Rising]

Hi Arian Maverick

I'm wondering why Moon is in the 12th, but also in Cancer so fairly strong. Is it because you want to be behind the scenes?

That exhalted Venus in the 9th house, the Moon does trine that in 4 degrees. Would that be the date that you made the application, about 4 days after the chart was drawn? Moon cardinal but in a cadent house so timing could be a bit longer than 4 days. Moon is also trine the cusp of the 9th.

That Mars retro in the first, er, thats the public but retrograde... Moon does conjunct this just after it changes signs, Moon in Cancer I believe is able to do this. Mars is in Leo suggesting public fame, and in your house, public fame could be yours?

Venus rules the end of the matter, is in the 9th house, and will trine Mars.

Moon may be taking the light from Venus in the 9th, to Mars, public, by you, Moon.

I think it could be a yes.

Good luck with that whatever happens! :smile:

[Arian Maverick]

I'm wondering why Moon is in the 12th, but also in Cancer so fairly strong. Is it because you want to be behind the scenes?

When I first received the application, I was excited by the opportunity it may afford me, yet this immediately was overshadowed by a feeling of impossibility--that this was too good, that I never could be chosen for such an honor because such honors have eluded me in the past. Therefore, I decided not to apply, to essentially prohibit myself from trying to avoid disappointment and heartache. This was the mood in which I cast the horary chart. However, my perspective changed due to conversations I had with a series of individuals, and I sent the application at the last minute.

That exhalted Venus in the 9th house, the Moon does trine that in 4 degrees. Would that be the date that you made the application, about 4 days after the chart was drawn? Moon cardinal but in a cadent house so timing could be a bit longer than 4 days. Moon is also trine the cusp of the 9th.

I submitted the application 23 days days after I created this horary chart, and indeed, I was in a very different space than when I created the chart. The spirit in which I asked the question was quite different than the spirit with which I submitted the application, so a part of me wonders if this chart is still accurate. I asked the horary question as a kind of "what if" exercise because I had no intention of submitting the application. However, the possibility became much more real--and the matter became more urgent--when I gathered my courage to submit the application. I did so because I experienced a series of synchronous events during the time leading up to the deadline, which brought me into unexpected contact with influential individuals who changed my perspective. I realized that I needed to do this because I have a message to share with the college community.

That Mars retro in the first, er, thats the public but retrograde... Moon does conjunct this just after it changes signs, Moon in Cancer I believe is able to do this. Mars is in Leo suggesting public fame, and in your house, public fame could be yours?

I certainly like this interpretation, but according to starlink, retrograde Mars in the first is not exactly an indication of a positive outcome. Nevertheless, I will cling to your words to sustain me, so I don't inadvertently create a negative outcome through negative emotions.

Venus rules the end of the matter, is in the 9th house, and will trine Mars.

Moon may be taking the light from Venus in the 9th, to Mars, public, by you, Moon.

This is sort of similar to what starlink said, as well, so there may still be a chance.

Good luck with that whatever happens!

Thank you! I had a revelation of sorts that, even if I am not chosen, my spirit of cooperation and hope will infuse the commencement ceremony. I am omnipresent, whispering in the ears of all who listen, These honors do not matter; the purity and vibrancy of your soul cannot be measured by academic achievement.

Arian Maverick

[Arian Maverick]

Well, it's only fair that I update this thread.

I just received the letter in the mail--on my birthday--informing me that I was not selected. No surprise there; I'm simply not the correct race, gender, or age. I just wish I knew why the universe thought to entice me so :crying:

Happy birthday to me. At least I'm old enough to legally drink...

Arian Mavereick

[Modcleopatra]

Well, it's only fair that I update this thread.

I just received the letter in the mail--on my birthday--informing me that I was not selected. No surprise there; I'm simply not the correct race, gender, or age. I just wish I knew why the universe thought to entice me so :crying:

Happy birthday to me. At least I'm old enough to legally drink...

Arian Mavereick


Arian!

I'm sorry to hear this... I know you were counting on it. :unsure:

I've been rejected from things like this, and the beaurocracy and politics around the higher education system... well education in general, can be so FRUSTRATING.

Did they make it clear to you that it was simply because you did not fit certain categorical requirements?

mod.

[starlink]

Hello Beth, sorry to hear the verdict! dont get beaten by it, next time better for sure!! And by the way, a happy Solar Return, no matter the fact that you were not accepted. Things always happen for a reason Beth and maybe, in due time, you will think "Thank heavens I was not chosen" because something much better awaited you around the corner:).

Cheers, Starlink

[Modcleopatra]

Hello Beth, sorry to hear the verdict! dont get beaten by it, next time better for sure!! And by the way, a happy Solar Return, no matter the fact that you were not accepted. Things always happen for a reason Beth and maybe, in due time, you will think "Thank heavens I was not chosen" because something much better awaited you around the corner:).

Cheers, Starlink


Amen to that! When one door closes another door opens...

*cheers* to many academic, professional, and personal successes Beth!

mod

[Neptune Rising]

Aaah I'm sorry to hear that :sad: btw thanks very much for the update.

I agree with Starlink, much better things ahead for you, this one wasn't to be for a good reason...

That could have been the Moon conjuncting the south node, I missed that one, usually shows me a no when I see it in my charts.

Happy birthday as well, hope the year brings you abundance of great things! :happy::happy:

[Arian Maverick]

I've been rejected from things like this, and the beaurocracy and politics around the higher education system... well education in general, can be so FRUSTRATING.

Indeed. Thank you for reminding me that there are larger forces at play.

Did they make it clear to you that it was simply because you did not fit certain categorical requirements?

No, they did not make this explicit, but they've demonstrated that they value these "categorical requirements" above merit in the past. I should not have been surprised by the outcome.

Hello Beth, sorry to hear the verdict! dont get beaten by it, next time better for sure!! And by the way, a happy Solar Return, no matter the fact that you were not accepted. Things always happen for a reason Beth and maybe, in due time, you will think "Thank heavens I was not chosen" because something much better awaited you around the corner

I appreciate your positive outlook, but in my experience, there has never been anything but heartache around the corner. I've waited for years for such an opportunity, and I thought finally--finally--I would have my day in the sun. Alas, it is not to be, due to my wretched Saturn in the tenth house.

That could have been the Moon conjuncting the south node, I missed that one, usually shows me a no when I see it in my charts.

Yes, I feel this is the equivalent of a karmic bitchslap. The fates are quite amusing...

Arian Maverick

[Arian Maverick]

To return to the topic at hand, is there any way to tell how close I was? I cannot shake the feeling that I was "second best" because this has been a pattern in my life.

Arian Maverick

[Ebenia]

To return to the topic at hand, is there any way to tell how close I was? I cannot shake the feeling that I was "second best" because this has been a pattern in my life.

Arian Maverick

You may take this the wrong way, but I want to say this to you, in case you could do something about it. You say that being the second best is a pattern in your life - do you feel like you are second best? I think you should watch the Secret - I know it's a bit commercial at parts, but it holds a good thought that all the things that we get in life, is what we think we deserve. You came into this thing thinking that there is no use that you would even apply that you are not good enough for it and when you decided to apply anyway, you applied, but maybe your thoughts about yourself did not change - you applied, but you still thought that I am not good enough for it. And now the universe replied to that thought.

It's harsh, and it may at first feel bad, but I have felt that this actually works in my life and when I started to really pay attention to it, everything started to change.

And remember, your Saturn in 10th does not prevent you from anything - it just shows your thoughts about your career and social standing and you can change it!

I hope all the best for you Arian! You are a great person and you should know it!

[Arian Maverick]

I'm not offended at all, Ebenia.

I've thought about this quite a bit since I received the letter, especially because I had visualized myself as valedictorian so clearly. I attended the graduation ceremony two years ago, so I knew exactly what the facilities looked like; I imagined myself on the podium every night, delivering the commencement speech. Yet I realize now that the feeling was never there. I never felt worthy of such an honor, and what's more, this ties into my self-concept. I identify myself by my shortcomings, as one who is not-quite-good-enough. Emotionally, I need to experience disappointment after disappointment so I can preserve this identity.

This has been a good learning experience. I just wish I knew how to change my thought-patterns...

I created a horary chart asking if I was second-best, but I don't think I'll post it because it serves no constructive purpose.

Arian Maverick

[goddessnadiya]

I'm simply not the correct race, gender, or age. ...

Arian Mavereick

Im so glad you have received the advice about the secret and are considering holding yourself in higher regard. This quote of yours stood out to me. I hope you will come to see the things you listed here as sinply your excuses to prevent you from attaining what you don't believe you deserve. Work with your natal chart and transits to heal and change those beliefs, and you will find the excuses and imaginary walls melt away.

I wish you so much self love and self knowledge!

*N.

[starlink]

I just wish I knew how to change my thought-patterns...



You could do self hypnosis, overruling outmoded thought patterns by repeating new and positive one's over and over again, when in a deep meditative state. It does take perseverence of course but after doing it every day, it seems that after (at least) two weeks, your mind starts to believe other things. There is a course on CD's by Dick Sutphen callled "Hypnology" by Nightingale Conant. Look it up in the internet.

[Arian Maverick]

Thank you for the additional insights, everyone. Yes, I am aware that I often make "excuses to prevent [me] from attaining what [I] don't believe [I] deserve." Coincidentally, I have begun a meditation practice, so I hope to heal the foundations of these beliefs. I'll look into the hypnosis course, as well, although I believe I'm too headstrong to be hypnotized! :lol:

Do not apologize for making comments about my natal chart on this thread, EJ53; as always, your contributions have been valuable. One excerpt from the link you provided stood out prominently--namely, the emphasis upon the phrase, "tragic lyrics to songs player over and over again." I attempted to create the desired outcome to this horary chart by listening repeatedly to a popular song from the Broadway musical Jekyll & Hyde, "This is the Moment."

The song heralds victory--the creation of an elixir that Dr. Jekyll believes will enable him to separate good from evil and, ultimately, eliminate evil from mankind. However, I did not realize that the lyrics (http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/jekyllandhyde/thisisthemoment.htm), for all of their grandiosity, reveal he had doubted his ability to succeed. Dr. Jekyll demonstrates this uncertainty in the first line, although he claims he will vanquish his "doubts and demons," just as I had hoped to do:

"This is the moment!
This is the day,
When I send all my doubts and demons
On their way!"

I also did not realize the song contains undercurrents of resentment towards those who had doubted his ability to succeed, as well as a fervent desire for one-upmanship:

"For all these years,
I've faced the world alone,
And now the time has come
To prove to them
I've made it on my own"

It's no wonder I was unable to manifest a positive outcome! However, I don't feel too badly, for it was a valuable learning experience.

Arian Maverick

[Arian Maverick]

To return to horary, I'm curious if the chart reveals anything about the student who was selected. If he is represented by the seventh house, his significator is located in the turned ninth house, which indicates that he attended college overseas. He majored in engineering, which may be ruled by Saturn.

Meanwhile, I am a native-born student who attended college locally. The Moon in Cancer seems appropriate as my significator because I have not ventured far from my "shell," and I am unlikely to do so in the immediate future.

Arian Maverick

[starlink]

I believe I'm too headstrong to be hypnotized


No no, this course is not about being hypnotized by someone else, it is only about re-programming your mind with your own input. The CD tells you how to do this.