What is his issue?

[misskitty]

Around this time last year I began seeing a guy I work with off and on. I did like him, but our relationship never did get off the ground. He kept saying he didn't want a relationship. We kept it light, and since we had great chemistry I continued to see him off and on. Our relationship was mostly physical, admittedly.

Well, this time we have not seen each other for almost 6 months and I just figured it was over for good, but he recently began asking me out again. I have been refusing, but finally I agreed to see him again when I get back in town. I always sensed we would get along well if we did decide to date formally, but he is afraid of something. I never could figure out what and I still do not know. I don't believe he is hiding another girl, as we live in a tight knit community and I surely would have heard about it by now. Could be he is only interested in sex with me, or maybe he's just one of those guys who really enjoys bachelorhood. He is a wishy-washy Pisces, so that is very possible. :p But I don't know what holds him back and I would love to know. Trying to get him to open up is very difficult, although mutual friends have marveled that I have gotten closer than he allows most people.

So the horary I asked is what IS his issue? The chart is surprisingly descriptive of our relationship. but I'm not sure I can tease out what his issue is...

I am Venus in the 6th house, his turned 12th. That is VERY descriptive because he wants to keep our relationship on the "down low." He does not want our colleagues to find out about our involvement. I am happy in Pisces, but I am applying to conjunct Uranus. Uranus rules my 5th... does that mean I may meet someone new?

He is Mars in the 10th, retrograde. By being Rx he is applying to trine me. An ex coming back to me, how fitting. But since it has to happen in Rx, then his coming back to me is only temporary. Also he has to switch signs to complete the trine, so we won't quite make it to being comfortable and then he will start to move away again. What is the significance of his significator being at 0 degrees?

Also, by moving in to Cancer, he will be moving towards his detriment. I ALWAYS get this result whenever I've asked horaries about him. Somehow the relationship between us puts him in detriment. Why is that?! Our workplace doesn't have formal rules against coworker dating, so if they did find out we would not be fired. He is not my superior. I don't understand why dating me is so detrimental to him?

The Moon is applying to oppose Venus, another indication that the relationship may not be the best thing for us. I am somehow working against myself. I just don't understand HOW. We are two consenting adults, and if we just want to have a light-harded affair when neither of us is attatched... how is that so detrimental?

I just don't understand the dynamics of this relationship and I think I am too close to pull it out of the horary. Does anyone see anything I do not see?

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h48/janders36/issue.gif

[Wannatouchyour]

I do have to say, if you feel such a strong ties with him, then check synastry. I find that NODES contacts have this fated feeling. Sometimes you feel so fated even if you just can't get things to work. Check the lessons you might have to learn with each other.


and want to know what's funny? I don't want to refer this back to me, but you and I have similar horary chart... except I asked on a new moon instead of full. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22489
haha, same house positions, just slightly off, with different positioned venus and moon.

Also, even if Mars and venus did meet, Mars will go direct again, continuing a contact with Venus as she moves. Will Mars dip into Cancer before it goes direct? If it does, then he might just be going through some rough stuff before rethinking it again.

[StarsNYou]

Mars will not go back into Cancer. It stays in Leo. There will be no aspect between the two significators. I think also right now Venus is in Mars trip,term and face, while Mars does not receive Venus, and is peregrine. He is happy to keep things just as they are. You being in his dignities I feel shows that you are having to play by his rules, and being in his face, I feel that you fear if you don't, it will be over.

[lillyjgc]

Mars does not go into cancer, true, but Venus gets to Aries and the trine is perfected but when Mars goes direct Venus will be past that trine very fast.
I don't like how you are in his h12 of *his* self undoing, with the moon in your 12 house of self undoing and the moon moving to oppose you (then Uranus-which can mean *sudden breakups*
Both people are showing as moving toward their detriment by trining one another.
When Mars goes direct Venus will already be moving fast in Aries, away from that trine. Mars is very slow when starting to move direct motion. It doesn't *catch up* to Venus for a long while after that.
Now, the moon, in h12 is in Virgo-a mercurial sign.It has not long passed the opposition to the sun, ruler of the guy's fifth.This may show a past split. The moon moves towards opposition to you-your feelings change, as I read that. There seem to be hidden matters between the two of you.(The h12 activity).The ruler of your sixth house of work is in your fifth-romance.Maybe that's part of the problem.
The ruler of your 12th, and your moon, (mercury) is conjunct Neptune-secrets?

His work is ruled by Saturn, (h4 cusp) and is in his sixth, but in your 12th (keeping it a secret at work I guess), and your work is ruled by the moon, which is in yr 12th.

The thing is, Mars is in Leo-a sign interested in having fun and your ruler is in pisces, ruled by Jupiter-expansion and astrology and maybe legalities, overseas matters etc. Leo and pisces are inconjunct by sign-they don't have much in common.

The moon being in Virgo is suggesting to me that this decision to try again is a cerebral choice, not so much a heart driven one.
If the horary shows you are always detrimented in this relationship, or he is, maybe take a close look at the synastry and see what that shows.Some things are just not meant to be.

Cheers
Lilly

[misskitty]

The moon being in Virgo is suggesting to me that this decision to try again is a cerebral choice, not so much a heart driven one.

Yes, it was. I logically thought through the consequences and decided it was worth the risk. My decision to see him again wasn't based on a flood of emotion, for sure.

I just want to clarify that I know that he and I aren't meant to be. He is clearly blocking any romantic entanglement with me and can't be the kind of man I need in my life. But I do enjoy his company and, to be honest, the relationship has always been based mostly in sex, even if I did want more at one time. :p I'm thinking with my Martian brain I suppose. :)

I was hoping the horary would show what the real hesitancy is on his part, and from what you are saying you are confirming what he has told me-- he has a real issue with dating a coworker. I guess I just felt that it can't be that simple and there must be some other reason, but maybe not in this case! Interesting.

One question about the significators both moving into detriment... is that warning me not to get involved again? I just have trouble seeng how a "friends with benefits" situation between two unattached adults can be so detrimental, and by keeping it light (and secret) I'm hoping whatever detriment there might be can be avoided. Is the chart showing it is unavoidable?

As for synastry, I actually did post a chart when he and I first started seeing each other and I will post the link. There are nodal connections, and his Venus exactly conjuncts my Sun. The nodal connections are intriguing because they give a 'fated' feel, or a feeling of being drawn to him, but I know he isn't the one. Especially since I am still hung up on an ex and having trouble getting past that relationship. I just wanted to start things up with Mr. Pisces again for the fun of it. ;) Here's the synastry chart: http://astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15134

Thank you all for your input!!

[misskitty]

Definitely wise, I could not imagine many Pisces rushing into marriage! :tongue: But yes, I felt myself falling when we first started dating and I really did hope it developed. But over time, he showed me that he is not the man for me because he is unreliable. It hasn't stopped the feelings of friendship (which always seems to return) because I just accept that he is who he is. That is, someone who doesn't want to be pinned down, and I don't expect him to change. I'm just hoping we can have fun together, but I am worried about the detriments that always appear in horaries about him.

You are there nervously electrified being so close to Uranus. :sideways: There is a blue line between you and him... :kissing:


I'm hoping that is referring to our date that was 3 days away when I asked the question, but now it is tomorrow!

[barbh]

We are two consenting adults, and if we just want to have a light-harded affair when neither of us is attatched... how is that so detrimental?


Because you want more than a light-hearted affair. You said youself that you are considering/hoping to date formally. I know, you also say that you accept who he is, but I still think its apparent you're holding out for more. It's detrimental to him because he doesn't want more.

I hate to say it, but he's just not that into you! Of course he wants a physical relationship with you without strings. Why wouldn't he? We've all been there, believe me. If he says he doesn't want more than sex, then he doesn't. And if he is hiding you from colleagues, absolutely he is not into anything more. I've seen that before too.
I don't think there's any big dark secret. He's just not into it.

He is Mars...who does Mars love? The Sun, ruler of his 5th. He is in the rulership and triplicity of his 5th ruler. Sex. And in the terms and face of Saturn, your 5th ruler. Sex. Also in the detriment of Saturn too. He has some misgivings about the sex from your point of view....its like he knows you want more from the sex and he's uncomfortable with that.

Bummer. :crying:.

But, the good news is that you know he's not the one, so here's your shining chance to let him go for good and focus on someone who can be there for you.

How did the date go btw?

barbh :biggrin:

[misskitty]

It went really well, and that's why I am so perplexed right now. I did not bring up any relationship discussion at all, I stayed away from the topic and was just focused on having a fun evening with him. HE kept bringing it up. He brought up the fact that it is a year ago today that we first saw each other. Then later in response to something he said I commented that neither of us is wanting a relationship right now, and he said "That's not really a good thing, I guess." and I responded "well, I'm happy for now, aren't you?" And he said "well.... I guess." Then when I got home he texted me to say he was glad he got to see me, something he has never done before when we were seeing each other...... so now I am more confused than ever about it. I seriously was approaching the date like a fun outing that didn't mean anything. But with him it never seems to stay in that framework for long.

I know you are right, I am not the kind of girl who normally engages in a sexual relationship outside the boundaries of a commited relationship, but with him I'm like a moth to a flame and I know that I will ultimately want more. I think he knows this and that you are right.... THAT puts him in detriment because he is uncomfortable knowing that I'm not normally that type and that I deserve committment-- something he cannot give.

I honestly had not thought about it that way, and I am so glad you pointed it out. Sometimes I do miss the forest for the trees, and look for deeper meaning when it is all very simple. I'm also glad you pointed out the 5th house receptions.

>>But, the good news is that you know he's not the one, so here's your shining chance to let him go for good and focus on someone who can be there for you. <<

I know, and appreciate your saying it. It's just that it doesn't look like this person is anywhere to be found and hasn't been for a long time, so I thought I would just focus on having fun instead. :( Relationships have never been about fun and games to me, though, and I guess never will.

Thanks so much for your reply, barbh, you are always on the money.

[barbh]

I'm so glad you had a good time! :kissing: Its funny, but I'm in the same place as you. Haven't been with a guy for forever, and would like a date with a nice man and receive some lovely attention for a change! I do get where you're coming from, really I do. I still wonder about his motivations though, and I do remember the last dude who wanted 'relations' with me. He used to email me all the time, made me feel like he wanted more, but in the end, he just wanted the physical connection. Your guy reminds me of that. It was all ground work to him. Don't forget, Venus is conjunct Uranus right now, so we all are right into the excitement of of it all.
Just keep remembering yourself, and what you need. We all want attention and affection, and of course we deserve it, and I'm with you....its hard to hold out for it sometimes.
I'm trying to do that now too.....remembering me and what I deserve,....the whole package, and not wasting my energy on someone who will only hurt me in the end. Its' all about focus. Lets focus on what we really want.
Good luck.
barbh :cool:

[misskitty]

Don't forget, Venus is conjunct Uranus right now, so we all are right into the excitement of of it all.

Yes, she is really doing a number on all of us right now I suppose! :tongue: Why do they do this to us... this laying the groundwork thing when they don't want to drive on the pavement in the first place? lol I think the difference between 6 months ago and now is that I am no longer expecting him to change. I'm hoping that will shield me from some of the hurt in future interactions with him. I wish I knew WHY he wasn't that into me. We get along very well emotionally and physically. I guess in the end some guys are just not built for committment, and also I suppose it is telling that at 38 his longest relationship he's had is a short 2 years. :surprised:

Anyway, good luck to you, too. We must have similar transits because this isn't the first time I've noticed that we are entangled in similar romantic situations! some day, we WILL find the total package that we deserve. ;) In the meantime, you are right... we need to do the best we can to "selfishly" protect ourselves and our own interests.

[barbh]

Why do they do this to us... this laying the groundwork thing when they don't want to drive on the pavement in the first place? lol


Priceless!! :lol:

[misskitty]

The moon moves towards opposition to you-your feelings change, as I read that.
Cheers
Lilly

Whoa, Lillygjc!! I have to admit that when I read this sentence initially I thought you might have been off the mark, as I have liked him for so long and then we had such a great date at the beginning of the week. I just didn't foresee my feelings changing.

But I have to tell you that you were RIGHT!! I saw him again tonight, and honestly I had the feeling that I should not go out tonight because I haven't really been in a great frame of mind today. But I went, and it didn't go well. Not because of anything he did, necessarily, but just because that now that any and all hope of a viable relationship has been taken away it has significantly diminished my attraction for him! I am no longer attracted!! He just seems to me to be selfish, and someone who is out for himself.

I learned a lot about myself this week. I learned that not only am I not the kind of girl to have a casual sex relationship, I can't even pretend to be that kind of girl even to temporarily satisfy my own needs. In the end, I NEED a close relationship to feel fulfilled in sex and the two are tied together for me. This was a valuable lesson.

I don't think I need to see him anymore. I feel like I can finally move on freely and not have that "what if" hanging over my head. I know the "what if..." he is only someone who can't commit and who won't be concerned with my needs and well-being. Only his own! Wow.

I feel like someone has shined a light onto a problem that has been in darkness all this time.

Anyway, sorry this thread has had so much TMI about my sex life. lol I guess with my Neptune transit right now it has definitely been an issue I've been dealing with for at least 2 years. Thanks Lilly and everyone else who responded. Barbh, since we are having such similar experience, I hope you have an 'epiphany-like' experience, too. :)

[barbh]

Misskitty
Glad it all worked out to your benefit!
Actually I had my epiphany experience last year with this one man....October 27th to be exact, and haven't gone near him since. It got slightly tempting once or twice, when he really tried to pull his narcissistic charm BS on me, but then I would come to my senses quite quickly. Actually it was just yesterday that I saw him at the gym, and he just actually annoyed me! Now that's progress. :tongue:

barbh

[misskitty]

Yes it is! Those epiphany moments are priceless. In a way it makes you feel like all of the bad stuff you have to get through really was meant to teach you something!