Oriental planet

[docker]

Every person have talents (special capabilities) to succeed his mission in life. The Oriental planet is the planet which is behind Sun and can show us which are the capabilities and how can handle them in practical issues in our life.
For me Oriental planet is Mars which tells me that I do the things I like too much (over-reacted). Also helps me to succeed what I start and don't let me enjoy it before I finish it first. I am realistic person and cause of that I can be productive. So my talents and my skills used better in situations where there is a demand of practical knowledge and rational mind (3rd house).

Question! What happened in Progressions? The oriental planet changes. Also the natal oriental planet change house. What do you think about it?

Thanks
Docker

[candiceaqua]

I have only Mars and Saturn oriental.....:surprised:

Don't know how to use oriental in progression, is works sort of like moveable sign, the things it present will be very quick and short.

[docker]

[QUOTE=candiceaqua;188891]I have only Mars and Saturn oriental.....:surprised:

You can have only one oriental planet. Mars or Saturn is behind your Sun?

Docker

[Arian Maverick]

I have only Mars and Saturn oriental.....

This comment doesn't make much sense--not only for the reason docker provided, but also for the fact that the zodiac is a circle. It doesn't matter how far around the circle you must travel; everyone has an oriental planet.

Arian Maverick

[Ryoin]

This comment doesn't make much sense--not only for the reason docker provided, but also for the fact that the zodiac is a circle. It doesn't matter how far around the circle you must travel; everyone has an oriental planet.

That might not be necessarily true. Oriental and occidental only count as far as the opposition to the Sun, then the other one takes over. Like, if you were to go to the left of the sun and count your oriental planets, the oriental part of your chart would effectively end when you got the degree opposite the degree of your sun, then any planet that occupies a degree from the opposition to the conjunction of the sun would be occidental. So, there is definitely a cut off point and if you don't have anything there, then you have no oriental planet and you can definitely have more than one planet being either occidental and oriental. For myself, I have one oriental planet and five occidental planets.

The Oriental planet is the planet which is behind Sun and can show us which are the capabilities and how can handle them in practical issues in our life.

This definition of oriental leaves much to be desired. An oriental planet is a planet that rises before the sun, saying a planet is behind the sun makes it sound as if it rises after the sun, making it occidental.

[docker]

An oriental planet is a planet that rises before the sun, saying a planet is behind the sun makes it sound as if it rises after the sun, making it occidental.

Oh so there is difference between Oriental and Occidental! I didn't knew that word! (English is not my mother tongue language, sorry)! Also I didn't know about the opposition. So if a planet is behind the Sun over 180 degrees means that there isn't Oriental planet?

Docker

[Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris]

How many planets can you have behind the sun? I would've thought one in reading the first paragraph but others mention more than one.

My Sun is Virgo 2 degrees and the planet just prior to that is Pluto in Leo 28 degrees in my 6th house. My Sun is in 6th house placidius or 7th whole house. Pluto is supposed to be considered exalted by traditional standards in Leo.

[docker]

It also depends on the planet. The inner planets are usually better occidental, the superiors (Mars, Jupiter, Saturn), oriental to the Sun.

Thanks Olivia, very helpful!

Docker

[Ryoin]

Oh so there is difference between Oriental and Occidental! I didn't knew that word! (English is not my mother tongue language, sorry)! Also I didn't know about the opposition. So if a planet is behind the Sun over 180 degrees means that there isn't Oriental planet?

A much less lengthy definition of oriental is a planet that rises before the sun. So, any planet that comes over the first house before the sun does, but isn't more than 180 degrees from it. Planets that rise after the sun are occidental.

How many planets can you have behind the sun? I would've thought one in reading the first paragraph but others mention more than one.

It's possible to have them all either oriental or occidental. Like myself, I've only Jupiter oriental while Saturn, Venus, Mercury, and Mars are all occidental.


My Sun is Virgo 2 degrees and the planet just prior to that is Pluto in Leo 28 degrees in my 6th house. My Sun is in 6th house placidius or 7th whole house. Pluto is supposed to be considered exalted by traditional standards in Leo.

Pluto doesn't count and it most certainly holds no dignity in Leo in the astrological tradition. :)

[EJ53]

A much less lengthy definition of oriental is a planet that rises before the sun. So, any planet that comes over the first house before the sun does, but isn't more than 180 degrees from it. Planets that rise after the sun are occidental.
For clarification, Ryoin......If the Sun is on the Ascendant degree, are all planets in houses 1-6 occidental and all those in houses 7-12 oriental?

[Ryoin]

For clarification, Ryoin......If the Sun is on the Ascendant degree, are all planets in houses 1-6 occidental and all those in houses 7-12 oriental?

Exactly. :)

[shaggy]

i've venus oriental(merc,pluto,jupiter,moon)
& mars occidental(uranus,neptune,saturn)
venus & mars are combust in sag.

[Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris]

Exactly. :)

So since my Sun is closer to the descendant line the reverse would be true for me? Everything from the Sun, including the sun, (Virgo 2 degrees) to Pisces 2 would be occidental and from Pisces 2 to Virgo again would be oriental?

Sometimes my pea brain takes a while to absorb correctly. lol.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/oriental.html

[Vagabondgirl]

I have mars-venus-moon (conjunction) before the sun. So this is oriental? The rest are occidental I suppose.

[EJ53]

So since my Sun is closer to the descendant line the reverse would be true for me? Everything from the Sun, including the sun, (Virgo 2 degrees) to Pisces 2 would be occidental and from Pisces 2 to Virgo again would be oriental?
Sun is not included, Amy......But otherwise, what you say is correct.

(Oriental=before Sun...Occidental=after Sun......Sun can be neither before nor after itself.)

But from your Skyscript link, a planet is "occidental in figure" if it's near the Descendant)......whilst a planet near the Ascendant is "oriental in figure"....So your Sun is "occidental in figure", but not an occidental planet...

...[It's confusing, but where would be the mystery in astrology if we used terms like "rises up to 12 hours before the Sun", "rises up to 12 hours after the Sun"; "is near the Ascendant" or "is near the Descendant"?]:biggrin:

[Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris]

Thanks EJ~ I just noticed your rising is 29 degrees Virgo as my Mercury is. I hope Saturn leaves us BOTH alone these next two times around.
:smile:

Now I get to google and see what Occidental and Oriental positioning does to my planets so you've given me homework, which is OK, especially if I learn.

Sun is not included, Amy......But otherwise, what you say is correct.

(Oriental=before Sun...Occidental=after Sun......Sun can be neither before nor after itself.)

But from your Skyscript link, a planet is "occidental in figure" if it's near the Descendant)......whilst a planet near the Ascendant is "oriental in figure"....So your Sun is "occidental in figure", but not an occidental planet...

...[It's confusing, but where would be the mystery in astrology if we used terms like "rises up to 12 hours before the Sun", "rises up to 12 hours after the Sun"; "is near the Ascendant" or "is near the Descendant"?]:biggrin:

[Vagabondgirl]

Thanks EJ~ I just noticed your rising is 29 degrees Virgo as my Mercury is. I hope Saturn leaves us BOTH alone these next two times around.
:smile:

Now I get to google and see what Occidental and Oriental positioning does to my planets so you've given me homework, which is OK, especially if I learn.

Hey, my moon is also 29 deg virgo:) I think saturn has given me much **** too! And pluto or whatever:/

[Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris]

Hey, my moon is also 29 deg virgo:) I think saturn has given me much **** too! And pluto or whatever:/

Maybe we should take a tally on those that have 29 degrees Virgo here?
:smile:

[docker]

This thread is about oriental planet.

Dckr

[Vagabondgirl]

Maybe its the "we like astrology" degree;)

[docker]

:) We ALL like astrology!

[Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris]

So now that I have the understanding my oriental planets are Mars, Moon and Venus.

My occidental planets are Jupiter, Mercury and Saturn.

I found these links for oriental planets and then just look to the left to pick the defination for your oriental planets

http://www.khaldea.com/planets/oriental_mars.shtml

http://www.khaldea.com/planets/oriental_moon.shtml

http://www.khaldea.com/planets/oriental_venus.shtml

And I would've LOVED to have found like definations for occidental but I did not....yet. lol.

[smilingsteph]

removed comment- as I didnt answer the question the OP wanted. Sorry, didnt mean to hijack the thread. Just thought the ideas were very interesting and in the 15 books of astrology that I have, none have a mention of this.

[EJ53]

...Question! What happened in Progressions? The oriental planet changes. Also the natal oriental planet change house. What do you think about it?
We are 25 posts into the thread now, and no-one has yet attempted to answer Docker's question......As a "Modern astrologer", I know very little about oriental/occidental planets......but hopefully a Traditional Astrologer will clarify things for us.

Edit/Addition
On the other hand, I am familiar with the concept of the "guiding (or scout) planet"......sometimes called the Oriental Planet by modern astrologers, because it rises immediately before the Sun (being the planet that is immediately behind it in the zodiac)......which I think is what is actually being referred to by Docker in the opening thread comment......and by Amy's link to definitions.

As Docker says, "there can be only one" guiding planet.....and (in the case of Moon/Mercury/Venus) it can become occidental by progression or move from being a natally occidental planet to the progressed guiding planet......In addition, natally occidental planets that move slower than the Sun can become the progressed guiding planet.

I have never thought about this before, but it seems to me that progressed change of the Sun's guiding planet must result in a change of style/approach to the events we encounter......So, those born with Mars as the guiding planet would change considerably if (by progression of the Sun) their natally occidental Neptune became their guiding planet.

Good question, Docker.

[docker]

We are 25 posts into the thread now, and no-one has yet attempted to answer Docker's question......

Thank you very much for the observation EJ53. I made a question about the change of the Oriental planet in progressions. I never meet this before in any book. That's why I am asking this. I born with a Mars oriental, but now I have oriental planet in progressions Mercury, which is Retrograde. Should I count Mercury as Oriental planet? Is this an indicator or an occupation change?

Please try to stay focus on the question of this thread. Thank you all!

[EJ53]

Thank you very much for the observation EJ53. I made a question about the change of the Oriental planet in progressions. I never meet this before in any book. That's why I am asking this. I born with a Mars oriental, but now I have oriental planet in progressions Mercury, which is Retrograde. Should I count Mercury as Oriental planet? Is this an indicator or an occupation change?
I have edited my last post (#25) to include additional comments relating specifically to the Oriental/Guiding Planet changing by progression, Docker.

My view is that Mercury will now be your Guiding Planet......causing you to think more before acting (than you did when Mars was guiding the Sun)....I doubt that it indicates an occupation change specifically, but you may find yourself changing occupations because you are now attracted to a different type of work (that better suits the "new you").

Use Amy's link to see how Mars/Mercury each work as Guiding Planets, and that will give you a good idea of the way in which you are likely to change...But remember that progressions only "colour" our natal behaviour, Docker......So you will always be a Mars "doer", but now you will tend to plan before acting.

[docker]

......So you will always be a Mars "doer", but now you will tend to plan before acting.

That's true! But also thinking to change occupation. I know very well that this isn't the only indicator of an occupation's change but I think its important. I 'll tell you why. Now I prefer to work more like Mercurian guy in different jobs than my usuals. I prefer jobs where I can be the person who lead the team instead of act or do the work. So now I like to plan THAN act! So, I am trying to correlate the old and the new oriental planet and how is this works in the progressions. Thank you very much to share knowledge.

[EJ53]

...Now I prefer to work more like Mercurian guy who lead the team instead of act or do the work. So now I like to plan THAN act!...to correlate the old and the new oriental planet.
That is exactly the right way to use this particular progressed change of guiding planets, Docker!

[dr. farr]

Occidental/oriental describes the relationship of the given planet to the Sun, or, sometimes, it refers to the east/west hemispheres of a chart.
Traditionalist and Hellenist astrology assign much importance to the oriental/occidental of the Sun consideration. Little attention is usually given to this consideration in Modernist or in Vedic astrology.

[theV]

Saturn is my OR planet