Heavy Questions and how to deal with them and free will etc

[beatnikgirl]

I have a difficult question, if you see in someones natal and up and coming transits a medical problem, death, breakup, accident or loss. Is their anyway to override those transits that are going to potential activate that negative energy. I hear a lot about "Free Will" but if you see in a persons chart violent death, loss, miscarriage, emotional break down is their anyway to override that?
I lost my grandfather when I was very young to a heart attack, which with hindsight I always think could I have change those circumstances, but at the time I was very young and didn't understand enough about astrological prediction to make a difference even though I have been studying and reading about astrology since I was 8 years old. So if you saw a prediction where a job someone was going to take was going to put them in fatal danger or if they were trying to get pregnant and yet you saw there were fatal dangers involved with the pregnancy or they were suffering with an illness as yet diagnosed and those transits and predictions even showed up in their families or partner chart would disclose it? plus secondly and most importantly is their anyway to override those circumstance? I am currently coping with daily depression due to the disturbing things I have read in my own, my friends and families charts. it worked when I had a potentially suicidal post natally depressed friend I rang her every other day turned up her round her house when she was low. But with potential Uranus, Pluto, Martian dangers how do make any practical use to your forewarned forearmed and how do you live with the fatalistic potential and not fall into a deep depression. I have natally Neptune conjunct Moon, opposite Saturn so looking on the optimistic proactive bright side is an alien concept to me. Any ideas? I hear about karma and Free Will but I never actually hear any positive way of over-riding the negative potential of someones chart and transits. There are obviously psychological and lifestyle things you can work on, but what if you were born with a medical condition that is a time bomb ticking away how are you supposed to look on the bright side and work out the positive karma on that, or what it some one was born with a condition that looks like it will deteriorate at the time of a certain transits how do you put a halt to that? what if you have a friend who is doomed to have unsuccessful relationships how do you tell them that are give them something to equip them to overide that negative outcome.My post will probably get booted to some other topic, but I welcome all insights on this because I want to find not only answers through astrology but I want to find solutions.

[lillyjgc]

Hi Beatnikgirl,
You raise some interesting issues and questions.I can only speak from my own experience here.
When I am going through a natal and transits with another person (friend/client) I try to be as honest as I can about *potential* areas of difficulty. I don't think the average astrologer can predict any one specific event will take place on a particular day..that requires a level of astrological expertise that very few have. If I see transits and hard aspects involving h7, for example, I don't automatically assume that their marriage will be at risk-it can mean other people in one's life generally may be problematic. No house just means *one thing*. The third house can be one's brothers/sisters/neighbour/also state of mind, so how could any astrologer say with absolute certainty that *your brother will be killed* if that house and it's Lord is afflicted by transits.
Generally I think we can warn clients of areas of their life that may be impacted by upcoming transits.
Everyone does have free will.When I have shocking transits I tend to avoid people and places that might have otherwise set in chain a series of unpleasant events.
On occasion I have advised clients against going on proposed journeys when their ninth and third were heavily oppressed. In a few cases they went anyway and even though it was problematic they weren't killed.
Transits affect everyone very differently. Right now I have Tr pluto on my asc square my natal sun that has transiting Sat on it...that's an alarming configuration. I'm being very careful but many astrologers would be worried about my possible demise from such harsh aspects.
We can't put together little epithets like *mars square Saturn will cause xyz to happen* because it depends what house those planets rule in the individual chart, and how much power to act those planets have in that unique chart..so being able to predict exactly how a transit will impact requires a very high knowledge level-it would also involve secondary charts, solar return charts etc..
Its a complex question.
Lilly

[Caprising]

Nancy Anne Hastings touches on this subject in her book "time to remember", as she says, there could be 10 or 15 times in your life when startling progressions and transits could sygnify mortal danger or death, your behaviour will largely determine the outcome, so if you had the significators of say getting raped you wouldnt walk through potential troublespots (dark alleys) in the middle of the night, but you would be ok to go to church or a parents and friends meeting, where you might get involved in an arguement, but will come out of it physically intact. Studying astrology is sometimes mis-represented to us with a " fix all thats wrong with your life" sales pitch, a religion even thats going to give you all of the answers that you've been searching for, unfortunately astrology will also show you that you can't control everything in your life, and I would suggest that if your finding what you are learning to be distressing, then take a break, go smell the roses for a while whilst your mind adjusts and accepts what you have learnt. I think that the current saturn/uranus opposition is bringing to light the issue of control (saturn)vs sudden events(uranus) in our lives. We don't have total control, but we can do the best with what control we do have, after all life is meant to be very good, so go and enjoy it for a while!

[beatnikgirl]

Thank You both of you lillyjgc and Caprising for your insights. Basically this question has come about through couple of circumstances. I saw some terrible circumstances occurring in my chart last year while my chart is very negative to the idea I am desperately wanting to become a mother, last year their were some terrible Plutonian Saturn and lunar aspects occurring last year that dependent on which house system you use, made me question the likeliness of me achieving that ambition, suddenly I saw within my chart natal aspects that looked so negative and deathly and also within my partners chart he has Saturn 7th sq pluto in his 10th house in his natal chart which I thought was activating the most negative outcome of that natal aspect. But actually what actually happened at that time was my mum had a heart attack while it really emotionally made me have to face death again she recovered and has changed her lifestyle and the experience has helped us build a stronger relationship let just say I have moon conjunct neptune opposite saturn natal so we have always had a lot to work out . My partner has some terrible aspects occurring in his 10th house, he is really enjoying his new job but i understand in june he will encounter a saturn pluto aspect that will cause severe tension in his career and cause him emotional problems. My mum has another heavy potentially fatal transit occurring in june 2011 to her 6th and 8th house, so these are the reasons I asked the question and I am eager to learn more, and whether their are ways to override these dangerous transits.My I have been give the all clear from my cardiologist so my partner and I were going to try again for a baby, yet I know natally me and my partner haven't got a chance in hell it looks pretty fatal on all sides.
I also saw in my best friend chart who has 3 wonderful kids but is suffering with sever depression is going to endanger herself, she has a neptune sq neptune transit occuring involving her 1st house she's a single mum only child with an alcoholic father and distant mother so I worry deeply about what is gonna happen to her and her kids I just keep been their for her,
I do meditate and try not to get too pulled into the fatalism of astrology but if you are to beleve in the reality of astrology I guess you have to take the rough with the smooth.

[R4VEN]

beatnikgirl, you have had really well-expressed and realistic replies from both lillyjgc and Caprising. They have said what I would have said had I been online at the time to provide an answer to your query.

Now I'm turning into the 61-yr-old person I am, and I am about to offer you some advice........................
Please, please remove from your astrological vocabulary the adjectives, `terrible', `potentially fatal', `negative and deathly'. They seem to be harmful to your outlook. Try using words like: challenging; opportunity; stimulating; exceptional.

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but in the 20 or so years I have been examining astrology I have never seen it as `deathly', or in any way absolute and irrefutable. I would have cracked up long ago had I looked at it in this way. As I have said on other threads, astrology provides insights into how we as beings can learn and grow, and what we do with certain challenging transits is one of the benefits of having free will. A knowledge of astrology is meant to be empowering - any less than that, and perhaps we are using it for the wrong reasons.

[waybread]

beatnikgirl, if you can pre-determine all those things you worry about, you are either psychic or one phenomenally good astrologer who is better than most of the professionals.

Traditionalists may argue with me, but I firmly believe that death cannot be predicted through astrological means. Even traditional astrologers disagree about how best to work with the hyleg, almuten, and so on. I once located about 6 different ways. Few modern astrologers get into this area, and for good reason. Death charts often show heavy transits, but then these are not identical across charts.

I believe in choice-centered astrology. If you know a heavy transit is going to roll up in your life, plan ahead. Think through what would be empowering interpretations of those transits, and then develop some positive ways to flow with that energy.

Just for example, a few years ago, I could see that Pluto was going to conjunct my IC, squaring my AC/DC and opposing my MC conjunct Uranus. Neptune and Chiron were going to conjunct my sun, and I was approaching my second Saturn return.

I set up an early retirement from my job (MC), which gave me a small pension to live on. My husband and I cleaned out our basement and painted it: basements are very IC/Pluto. We then sold our house and spent two months on the road [Pluto in late Sag] before settling into our new home and way of life in western Canada. During my Saturn return, we were working very hard getting our large vegetable garden together and digging out rocks. Saturn rules hard work, agriculture, and rocks. I had some undiagnosed illness [Neptune] but nothing at all life threatening.

Everything worked out fine, and the move proved to be very positive. The thing is, to figure out the core meanings of these transits by sign, house, planet, and aspect. Then develop a game plan for dealing with them: i.e., living them in a constructive manner. Don't wait to get blindsided.

Having said that, we are meant to have some pain and trouble in life. This is earth, not heaven. But people with big hearts develop some sort of faith and joy in life, despite their grief, and don't let their fears and worries dominate them.

Probably the most difficult transit I experienced was Pluto square sun. But (A) I didn't die from it. I was not suicidal. I did put myself into therapy with a clinical psychologist, which proved to be beneficial. (B) Thousands of people are born with Pluto square sun. Somehow they manage to cope and lead productive lives.

What do you do to feel grounded and to put yourself into acommon-sense frame of mind?

[R4VEN]

Probably the most difficult transit I experienced was Pluto square sun. But (A) I didn't die from it.
Great post, waybread, and with an excellent example of how to empower yourself in response to a series of difficult upcoming transits.

And in relation to your above quote -
I also found Pluto square Sun to be the most difficult transit of them all, but only in response to my (then) belief that who I was prior to this transit was the best person I could be. Such arrogance! A Pluto square Sun will transform through the `death' of some aspect of the self, and Pluto never takes what your soul needs in order to continue with your journey.

[waybread]

R4ven, thanks. I think for me, Pluto square sun took everything I had imagined my life to be, and showed it to be illusory. But it was so stressful that I got myself into therapy, and found myself dealing with a lot of suppressed childhood issues. Also, I started looking for answers in "New Age" pursuits, which quickly led to my introduction to astrology--which became my passion. So I would have been a much shallower person without this transit.

For sure something "dies" with this kind of transit. But re: beatnik girl's OP, the "death" is most times metaphorical.

[lillyjgc]

Hi guys,
I have pluto on my asc by transit square natal sun-right now..I had swine flu, pneumonia, a mild heart attack (my natal Pluto's in Leo btw) and almost every part of my life seems to have changed under this transit. Ended long term unhappy relationship, changed jobs, etc..its not over yet, either.
This would be one of the harshest transits I've had when you throw in the Tr sat cj natal sun which is already square my natal ascendant.
However when Pluto conjuncted my asc exactly, I did not die,Not physically anyway.
My astrology teacher of long ago reminded me that even one trine can change everything.If every house was only concerned with one *topic* of life it would be very much easier to predict exactly what would happen, but as each house has multiple applications, its very difficult to know which one will play out at any given moment.
Cheers
Lilly