Capricorn Ascendant or Saturn in the 1st

[Teddybull]

Was reflecting on my cap asc and I read that they are painfully shy in the younger years. This was VERY true for me as for my first date with a guy was when I was 19.

My childhood was not very pleasant because of my shyness. It was an awkward time. I was also not very pleasant looking in my childhood, long face, stringing hair, thin bone structure.

I was very serious, quiet, very responsible. Ironically, I have a capricorn mother who just added more responsibility and had me working in the family business at the age of 10. When I had looked back at my high school transcripts, my senior year (in which I even graduated a year early), I took off 48 days from school to help with the family business. All I remember is doing my homework, always, late in the evening. I even have remarks in my yearbook from teachers wondering where I was at but always amazed my homework was turned in.

Today, I am much better looking. Yes, there is hope. Thin body and facial structure works better as you age. I have a 6 degree Cap Asc, along with a 12 degree Venus Cap, 13 degree SATURN Cap and 16 degree Mars Cap. I'm pretty much Capped out in this lifetime lol!.

As years go by, I have worked my shyness into a bit of quiet humor. I'm more self assertive, but still very responsible for ALL my decisions. I have worked to getting a higher degree and am in a place now where I am financially secure. However, I don't know if you can ever overcome a saturn in the first house aspect. That inward knawing feeling of separation from people as well as being overly responsible.

What are other experiences like?

[Sanem]

Lol, I'm a Cappy Asc too, with Saturn in 10th being the most influential planet in my chart, so I think it's safe to say I can relate to what you're saying.

There's a Cap girl in my class, also very shy, serious, self-concious, but very humerous when you get to know her better, I like her a lot for those qualities.

I'm still young myself, 21 yo, and I've never gone on a date.
Luckily my Tauran Sun, Cancer Moon and Mars/Mercury combinations make me a bit more loose and impulsive, lazy at times, but still very easily stressed when the image I project of being serious, capable, disciplined and in control of my emotions is threatened (which happens often).

I can also ben extremely shy, mainly because of my strong sense of responsibility and low self esteem. Both those are things that can be worked on, which is what I'm mostly doing with my life right now.

But like you mentioned yourself, Cappys get better with age, I like to think of giant trees, they're the biggest but also take the longest to grow.

[Teddybull]

Sanem,
I don't usually gamble but I would have to say I would place a bet that you will be very successful in life. I don't think you would be impulsive with your water and earth signs sun/moon/asc. You are also probably pretty intuitive which, IMHO, is the closest thing to genius (not the intellect). With all your earth, water and saturn on your mc, I'm sure you are also prudent and wise.

Don't worry about not dating. It will come. I think you are just laying down a secure foundation in your life which will flourish that big tree. Good luck, Blessing TB

[Manic_Monday]

I also have Saturn in the first house. I know feelings of insecurity. I need a lot of encouragement from those near me. I also have Neptune in the first (and Uranus btw). Neptune makes a sextile to the Moon. My Sun sign is Virgo.
These all indicate shyness. Yes, I'm very shy and modest. I'm also very quiet. But that has changed a little over the years. I'm more outgoing now. I think the influence of my Sag rising has increased.
I'm the oldest child. I've always had responsibility, and I could handle it. I was very independent for a six year old.

[Miss Saturn]

I also have Saturn in the 1st house conjunct Ascendant, opposing my Sun.
I have a Virgo Ascendant.
Sun in Pisces
Moon in Pisces

I was very shy in school Silent. I could never express myself, underneath I was a very sensitive child. I had a very hard childhood full of tears. I am coming to terms with what happened in childhood. Slowly building myself up. Saturn does hide the inner me I don't think people could see who I was behind Saturn. I am very guarded, less so then I once was but I do put walls up if I feel unsafe or unsure.

Miss S

[Sanem]

Sanem,
I don't usually gamble but I would have to say I would place a bet that you will be very successful in life. I don't think you would be impulsive with your water and earth signs sun/moon/asc. You are also probably pretty intuitive which, IMHO, is the closest thing to genius (not the intellect). With all your earth, water and saturn on your mc, I'm sure you are also prudent and wise.

Don't worry about not dating. It will come. I think you are just laying down a secure foundation in your life which will flourish that big tree. Good luck, Blessing TB

Why thank you Teddy, those are some very nice words (second time today: a few hours earlier, my neighbour the Tauran photographer told me I have a brilliant taste for colours :D).

I think you're right, and I definitly hope you are: also because I aspire to manage our family company one day, which has a rather large number of people working in it, and would involve a huge amount of responsebility (my grandfather and uncle both received the national management trophy for it, if I'm good enough I might one day too. Better start practicing on my speech... :D).

Oh well, if I do I do, if I don't, I'll be more than happy if I can just marry a beautiful wife (a mermaid :)), have some children and do some good in this world.

Lol on the tree foundation reference, I guess that's pretty much exactly what I'm doing: it'd go faster if I took more risks, but than that would potentially be a great cost.

Oh yes, I span a cart with my slow but steadfast Taurus to pull it, my Capricorn to steer it, and my Cancer to tell me where to go...

Hehehe, I've got Neptune square Mercury, which would explain my rich imagination, which has also resulted in a number of astrologically inspired drawings, might scan them some time.

The intuition thing is bit of a mistery: it's been hinted at before, and it would make sense since I've been defined as highly sensitive, but with Saturn in Scorpio my emotions tend to be hard to understand for me.

Prudent definitly (also because of my fear of making mistakes: I tend to do important tasks very slowly, even if other could do them faster to the same effect). Wise I'm not sure, it wouldn't be very wise to brag about being wise... :)

Well, anyway, thanks for the pat on the shoulder, very well received ;) (the thing about going slow is that a lot of people underestimate you [or that's what my Cappy side likes to think anyway], although so far I've had two people suggesting it will pay off in the end).

[23]

I am very much an airy person but I can feel the effect of saturn/cap related things in my chart. I have a Cap MC and my saturn opposes my sun. I feel these place a heavy weight on me. I have lacked confidence and still do at times and I take my career very seriously.

Also, I was very serious, responsible and shy as a child, this is despite Aries AC/Aqu sun. I was mocked in school for my maturity and seriousness by other students. I didn't have any siblings and my parents were older parents. I've loosened up a lot since then but I think my childhood seriousness was caused by my progressed chart. I was born with Aqu merc that was retrograde and sag venus at 26 deg. I looked at my prog charts when I was a teenager and my prog mercury and prog venus moved into Cap. It explained my ease with Chemistry and Maths in my younger days.

[freedomlover]

Hello!

I am new to the forum. This is my first post. I was just glancing through, as I sometimes do, when I saw this thread. I couldn't resist. I, too, have a Capricorn ascendant. I also have Mars and Venus in the first. I do not have Saturn. (It is in the second, in Pisces). However I do have my Moon in the first, although it divides in the middle of the house, and it is in Aquarius. I also have a retrograde Mercury in the 12th house (Sag) Any thoughts?

I had suffered painful shyness when young, but gradually grew out of most of it. I'm a pretty good "people person" now, but I often feel inadequate concerning my abilities. I have had a notorious problem with taking on other's responsibility, although I'm pretty much through that, just a few "hangers on".

[Lynns]

Like Sanem, I have a Capricorn ascendant, and Saturn in my 10th. Saturn is closest to my MC, second from the sun. However, my MC/Saturn is in Libra, and Libra is thus ruling my ascendant.
I've always been a painfully shy and socially awkward kid, and even in high school, I didn't really like joining the cliques. I've always preferred the company of older people. Even though I have a Libra sun, I suppose the Capricorn influence toned down my expression, to make me more reserved and shy, although I am a true Libra underneath (with 4-Libran stellium)
I've had many brushes with authority in my youth and growing up years which lead me to question their integrity before submitting. In fact, alot of times authority abused their power in full sight of me and that confused me greatly, because I thought they were supposed to be a pillar that points in the right direction.
My relationship with my Daddy is always almost about me rebelling against him because he seems to order me about on account that "because I'm your father". I used to think it was a valid reason, but not anymore. However, my relationship with my father is good; I look up to him as he is honest and a good provider.

I am also a VERY late bloomer. I used to wonder why and be a bit ashamed of it, but I think I know why now. I have crushes, but nothing was ever serious. I only knew what love was at 21, though it was just the beginning of a long drawn-out process.

I also read that Cappy ascs look older when young and seem to look younger when old. I think that's pretty true already. I just don't want to be prone to arthritis (with the bone structures being pronounced and all that)!

However, for ambition, I am shelving that right now (I don't know why, I just feel it isn't the right time). I am 23, and I'm not going higher than a degree as for now. I want to work and travel first - because I am not very sure what I want to specialise in and I am taking time out for inspiration.

[Sanem]

Some quotes from Lynn:

"...Capricorn ascendant... Saturn in my 10th... MC/Saturn is in Libra, and Libra is thus ruling my ascendant."

Hm, so if my MC/Saturn is in Scorpio, my Asc is ruled by Scorpio?

"... always been a painfully shy and socially awkward... high school, I didn't really like joining the cliques.... preferred the company of older people."

Lol, sounds familiar to me: I remember the years before high school, my friends started forming cliques, yet for some reason I never joined in. A lot of my best friends were/are two years older than me, or 1 year younger, yet never my own age...

"... true Libra underneath (with 4-Libran stellium)"

Taken a look at your chart, I'd have to agree :).

"... Daddy... rebelling against him..."

Same here, but I understand that's my Saturn opposition Mars.

"I am also a VERY late bloomer... only knew what love was at 21..."

21? Cool, nice to know I'm not all that alone in that aspect :D.
And I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the later bloomer's thing, go me!

"... look younger when old..."

Lol, my Dad happens to be a Libra (with 5 planets :eek: ) AND a Capricorn Asc (also with Saturn in 10th), and people tend to judge him 20 years younger than he actually is ;). - crosses fingers - Go family genes!

"... ambition, I am shelving that right now... want to work and travel first... not very sure what I want to specialise in and I am taking time out for inspiration."

Well, I happen to have found a pretty steady course at the time (municipal study, I like the idea of becoming a bureaucrat, but with a range of just as important alternative studies, like Ki Aikido, Astrology and Emokinesiology). But my plan is (Taurus speaking here) to study for the next 10 years (work on my foundations a bit before I start planting, better do it right from the first time).

As it happens I already did a lot of travelling in the previous years (long periods of time on my own in Spain, France twice, Tjechië, Peru... Hope to go to the US again next year maybe). And all this has brought me to were I am today, has greatly influenced my decisions, brought me to the fixed course I am right now. Kinda funny really... :)

[Lynns]

In reply to Sanem:

"Hm, so if my MC/Saturn is in Scorpio, my Asc is ruled by Scorpio?"

Yes, I read it somewhere that the sign of your ascendant's ruler is pretty important.

"Lol, sounds familiar to me: I remember the years before high school, my friends started forming cliques, yet for some reason I never joined in. A lot of my best friends were/are two years older than me, or 1 year younger, yet never my own age..."

Same here! I always feel alone in cliques even if I join their activities. And I didn't feel part of them either. My best friends were the same age as me, partly because I didn't mix with the seniors, but I frequently enjoyed my parents' and aunts' company - you know, so much older. . . but I felt more comfortable with them about not judging me etc. I wasn't a particularly cool kid, and even though I might have subscribed to some fads, it was due to impressionalism and not that it resonated with me at all.

"Same here, but I understand that's my Saturn opposition Mars."

Hmm interesting aspect. If conjunction is a rough aspect and Father is symbolisd by Saturn, I have a rough Saturn conj. Sun as well.

"Lol, my Dad happens to be a Libra (with 5 planets ) AND a Capricorn Asc (also with Saturn in 10th), and people tend to judge him 20 years younger than he actually is . - crosses fingers - Go family genes!"

Your dad's chart seems like mine :O

"But my plan is (Taurus speaking here) to study for the next 10 years (work on my foundations a bit before I start planting, better do it right from the first time)."

That is a good plan to have! You would most certainly go far.
I just wish I could do that - I couldn't anymore even though as a kid I could.

"As it happens I already did a lot of travelling in the previous years (long periods of time on my own in Spain, France twice, Tjechië, Peru... Hope to go to the US again next year maybe). And all this has brought me to were I am today, has greatly influenced my decisions, brought me to the fixed course I am right now. Kinda funny really... "

Wow - that is what I intend to do! I think they are very essential for independence and discovery of life direction (which i lack because I am very attached to my early home life :venus cnj MC or opposite 4th house cusp).
I plan to continue my studies, but after I have figured out a more concrete life direction.

[FishNChips62]

Hi all. Well I'd decided to look at the charts (pdf file) that comes along with the birth chart provided by astro.com to see what the orbs of the lesser common aspects which canopus didn't provide were... aand *gasps for air* lol well I saw that the tightest aspect in my chart (which Canopus somehow said mars square pluto was but Ookay w/e, i guess lol) was Saturn Quintile Ascendant. And welll that would definitely make sense b/c I've always (I'm only 17 so always isn't that long) been a shy person...yeah, I definitely find it hard to loosen up and joke around with people..and so I feel awkward when others do around me and I can't get myself to loosen up. JEEz it's frustrating =P But somehow I usually manage to make the best of it with my optimism (i guess that would be jupiter also sextiling my ascendant..but with a weaker aspect) and need to ALways show a sense of humor (i think that'd be mercury-uranus at work). If I'm too serious (which is how my mind really is) i'll totally try to lighten things up as much as possible with smiles (or smilies online lol) and making a joke about as much as i can come up with...which usually ends up being straight up sarcasm. Also my mercury aspecting uranus definitely makes me look for a good sense of humor in friends and the company i keep above all. Usually mercury-uranus people love other mercury-uranus people b/c they have they same eccentric if not quirky sense of humor...which often a lot of non-mercury-uranus people do Not get!! lol. at all. Happened to me many times :) Oh yeah, and I also have a Libra ascendant which makes me more sociable....and maybe? less shy...and a leo moon would motivate me to overcome it ..since i need to be thought of as playful and fun-loving. But my libra asc definitely doesn't help in the are of self-assertiveness, though it probably does help me be more harmonious in my relations with others...which cAN! be hard for me!! Mars Square Pluto and especially Mercury Opposite Uranus makes me say erratic things to people which i don't mean..and can make me even be irrational in my expression. MArs sq. Pluto just makes me get ticked off easily..or something...i guess. lol.

But omg! Yeah! back to saturn. Well, according to Canopus...
"In this chart...
*) Saturn is very strong because it's:
-opposite the Sun
-the ruler of the hour
-and the pole of the Heptagram"

Not sure about the importance of the last two, but I also have Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus in the 3rd house of communication...which Saturn makes me seriously hate communication to the point where I stop TRying...like seriously I'd much rather use telepathy..and most of the time try to before i have to explain something again..also information has to be organized really well for me to understand it (the structuring of saturn), and it also makes me clearly plan out in my head exaclty what words i'm going to use to say what i'm gonna say. And, well, neptune int he 3rd makes me scared that others won't understand what i mean when i say something... and I forgot what Uranus does. Also I have Saturn in Capricorn which allows it to express itself in my chart really easily. OH the Joy! XD

[FishNChips62]

"Same here! I always feel alone in cliques even if I join their activities. And I didn't feel part of them either. My best friends were the same age as me, partly because I didn't mix with the seniors, but I frequently enjoyed my parents' and aunts' company - you know, so much older. . . but I felt more comfortable with them about not judging me etc. I wasn't a particularly cool kid, and even though I might have subscribed to some fads, it was due to impressionalism and not that it resonated with me at all."

Wow, I can definitely relate to that! I do consider myself pretty cool and then other times I don't at all..and I hope that others will just see me as 'cool' anyway. but, I'd guess that happens to a lot of us, so then i don't feel so left out about it. And about traveling, I'm definitely planning to do that a lot...b/c I want to see as much as I can out there beofre I really settle down anywhere. Ooh, I found some saturn quotes online while looking for interpretaions of Saturn on the Ascendant.

Sun conjunct Saturn
If you don't learn to laugh at troubles, you won't have anything to laugh at when you grow old. - Edward W. Howe

Moon conjunct Saturn
But I could not get along without some bit of joy, and the demand for that bit of joy was now one of those little flames inside me in which I still believed, and from which I planned to create the world anew for myself... - Hermann Hesse

Mercury conjunct Saturn
Pain is deeper than all thought; laughter is higher than all pain. - Elbert Hubbard

Venus conjunct Saturn
I find my joy of living in the fierce and ruthless battles of life, and my pleasure comes from learning something. - August Strindberg

Mars conjunct Saturn
I was born serious and I have earned my bread by making other people laugh. - - Marie Dressler

Jupiter conjunct Saturn
Laughter is the sun that drives winter from the human face. - Victor Hugo

Saturn conjunct Uranus
One inch of joy surmounts of grief a span;
Because to laugh is proper to the man. - Rabelais

Saturn conjunct Neptune
If I had to write my own epitaph, it would be: 'He was much loved because he made people laugh and cry.' - Noel Coward

Saturn conjunct Pluto
I will have no melancholy in this house ... - Queen Victoria

Saturn conjunct MC
It is only by knowing how little life has in store for us that we are able to look on the bright side and avoid disappointment. - Ellen Glasgow

Saturn conjunct Ascendant
A laugh, to be joyous, must flow from a joyous heart, for without kindness there can be no true joy. - Thomas Carlyle


Also, I read that the closer Saturn was (see orb) to being exactly on the eastern horizon - your Ascendant - when you were born, the more reluctant you as a soul were to come into your body. Your birth was probably difficult for your mother, and if Saturn is within a few degrees of your Ascendant (see orb), may have caused her great trauma, a Caesarian, or in extreme cases even death. Saturn is really not all that near my Asc and I definitely caused some trouble for my mom when i was born! She had to have a Ceasarian b/c I was turned sideways with my side facing the way ...out. lol. I was the first one she'd been able to have after two miscarriages, too. Hmm..wonder if that has anything to do with it. ... Alrighty then, all! Peace and love, k?

Love,
Mabel

[Sanem]

In reply to Sanem:
Yes, I read it somewhere that the sign of your ascendant's ruler is pretty important.

Thanks, will keep that in mind.

... frequently enjoyed my parents' and aunts' company - you know, so much older. . . but I felt more comfortable with them about not judging me etc...

Yup, same here, in my early teenage years I spent most of my social time with adults. And even when I got older adults kept making up a large part of my social life, as well as older kids.

"As it happens I already did a lot of travelling"

Wow - that is what I intend to do! I think they are very essential for independence and discovery of life direction (which i lack because I am very attached to my early home life :venus cnj MC or opposite 4th house cusp).
I plan to continue my studies, but after I have figured out a more concrete life direction.

Well I do have Jupiter in first house in Aquarius, but it's entirely contained within the first house, which Lunar Pisces explained does mean it has to go through my Cappy Asc.
Meaning I have a rather optimistic and open-minded view of life, yet this view has to undergo the trials of Saturn before being ready to be used to full potential.
Jupiter also being the planet of travel I believe, in the first house, would explain my large number of exotic voyages at a young age, which also strongly influenced my personal development and current choices.

Hey Mabel,

... but I also have Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus in the 3rd house of communication...

About that, I took another look at your chart, and I also saw that it's opposed by Mercury. Making you a rather strong Mercury, if not complicating communication for you.
Just your way of writing which reminds me of my self in a way (with all my Mercury/Mars engery intertwined and Sun in Taurus in 3rd).

[FishNChips62]

Just your way of writing which reminds me of my self in a way

yeah, totally ...ur way of writing does remind me of the way i write... but still only in a way :] they're similar but not too much the same. hmm..i wonder why that is. Right now i don't have time but i promise i'll look into it later. k?

Mabel

[Sanem]

Right now i don't have time but i promise i'll look into it later. k?

That's ok, being Mercury/Mars I don't have a long attention span anyway, plus I've got my exams to worry about :).

I think we're both strong communicators, but for different reasons/planets/aspects.

But the thing we do have in common is a badly placed Neptune: I have it square Mercury, while you have it opposite Mercury.

[freedomlover]

Resurrecting this one on request.

[Yoi]

As a Sagittarius with Gemini Ascendent AND Moon (did I mention those two signs are doubled as well - double the Sag, double the Gemini), I would like to have some Capricorn common sense and restraint sometimes :) So cheer up, there's advantages to being heavily Capricorn sometimes. At least you don't have a habit of shooting your mouth off and then having to frantically trying to apologise a few minutes later...A bit of Capricorn responsibility would do me a world of good too I think...

[Sanem]

Hey Charmvirgo,

Your description of your childhood definitly sounds very Cappylike, although one whould need to know your whole chart to place all details I think.

Saturn conj Asc does sound like a difficult emplacement, although one of my faovirte people has that aspect: she had grey hair since age 30, but she has a personality which I concider refined through time, like the finest of whines.

Freedomlover's Mars in Capricorn Asc also sounds very nice, I understand it's exalted there.

On a personal note, I've recently come to be very happy with my Cappy Asc/Sat conj MC. I figure I'll just sit back (which in Cappy terms still means to work harder than anyone else :rolleyes: ), enjoy the ride, and not worry too much about where I'll end up.

And Yoi, I too shoot my mouth off regularily and appolagise, often with people going "why does he think he fatally wounded me when he mentioned that I'm tall?" :D But that's Mars/Gemini and Moon/Cancer.

[Sanem]

Hey Charmvirgo,

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1633

A thread on my chart: especially Lunar Pisces' response is most interesting, how self-discipline is my biggest flaw, even though I'm a Cappy Asc.

So yes, I do find it believeble that you're a Cappy Asc, despite being irresponsible :). Moreso because your Asc ruler is in your Asc, making your personality ruled by the ruler of your personality, lol :p.

Although I'd base this mostly on your description of your social behavior, as in my experience it fits the Asc. Although I lack the experience to read the rest of your chart for more details.

Interesting Lilith by the way, I have my moon in about the same place. What's that like?

And I like your Venus/Mercury conj 10H cusp. Mine are conj in Aries :).

[Sanem]

Interesting theory on the non-existence, Lilith is something I'm keen on learning more about.

Although it does sound like an extremely frustrating position, so close to 7H cusp. Although if it really is "non-existence", than wouldn't the Saturn opposition make for a positive influence, since it weakens Lilith's influence?

But that is assuming Lilith is a purely negative influence, which seems unlikely.

Instictively, I'd say there is a need to develop the personality, in order to overcome whatever influence Lilith may have on your 7H, like lack of partnership.

[Sanem]

Lol, in 21 years I've never been in a relationship, so I have an idea of how that feels. Must be lonely though.

Now that I think about it, my teacher who also has Saturn 1H and is about your age doesn't have a relationship either, although I don't know much about her past relationships.

Perhaps Saturn in 1H does strain one's personality wihtin a social context, it's definitly a "lonely" planet. And I just realised your Lilith squares your Venus in Libra conj 10H cusp, can't be good. And your 7H ruler Moon conj Mars, that's not the easiest combination either.

[Teddybull]

I am thinking that a Saturn Asc would produce ambition, success and honor more in the second half of life. It takes strength of the rock of Gilbratar to overcome the shyness, inhibitions, fearfulness, and lack of self esteem that Saturn produces near the ascendant.

It has got to be one of the hardest aspects to work with. HOWEVER, think of the rewards afterwards.... You don't realize it now, but in later years, it took spiritual, emotional effort to overcome it (or most of it!). The payoff is trememdous. Now that I am in the second half of my life, many issues of responsibility, stability and self assurance are part of my nature. I wouldn't have it any other way.

One thing I liked about what I read about Saturn conj the ascendant is that you pay back people with cool indifference. I am good at displaying a poker face. (Even tho I have very deep feelings inside). I don't allow myself to get burnt twice. But I will forgive. tb

[Shining Ray]

Hi Teddybull,

Nice encouraging words, I have Saturn Conjunct my Ascendant. I am 27 yrs old now and I am looking forward to the second part of my life since it is supposed to get better for us Saturn's.

I am also looking forward to becoming an Astrological adult at about age 29yrs. Since this is supposed to be the age in Astrology where we mature with the return of Saturn.

Shining Ray

[cossie]

Hi all,

Thanks Charmvirgo for pointing me in this direction.

I am Virgo Sun,N.node and Lilith conjunct ascendant in Capricorn,saturn in 6th conjunct descendant ,Moon conjunct midheaven in Scorpio. Jupiter in Aquarius in 1st.

I do not consider myself a typical capricorn ascendant but I can identify with what you have all said on some level.

I fluctuate between lacking confidence(saturn) and over confidence(jupiter). Sometimes I cannot summon up enough confidence to speak up at all and other times (especially if I can take the lead in a group discussion) I can be overpowering! I think this is also due to my moon conjunct midheaven.(need for recognition).

Anyway,my appearance is not typically Capricorn but I do have a fast metabolism,I lose weight fast if I want to,and my structure is quite defined.
I have a typical Capricorn habit of clenching my teeth if I am tense and often find that my whole body is tense.I have to conciously relax my shoulders etc and dont find it easy to just sit and chill.

I was a very serious and responsible child. I was always told I was old beyond my years. I found it easy to get along with adults from an early age and found that I was taken seriously from an early age too.

In relationships I am very traditional. I always knew I wanted to get married and would never get divorced.I wanted children and a traditional family unit,which I have achieved.I take my marriage very seriously and expect my husband (a cap moon) to be serious about his role as husband and father.

I have high expectations of myself and others,I can be very impatient with others but I am able to cultivate patience for myself.

I feel capable of withstanding almost any hardship.I believe I am able to exist with virtually nothing! ( I once lived in a wooden hut on a remote beach in India for 4 months with only a well and no toilet.)I am thrifty,and at times I pull myself up for being mean(especially over money). I am a loner,and enjoy my own company.

My favourite animals are GOATS and as a child I kept one as a pet.

I guess after writing all that I may well be a rather typical Capricorn ascendant!

Great thread,will continue to read with interest.

[Frisiangal]

Hi everyone,
Charmvirgo asked me if I would say something about Black Moon Lilith in Cancer. I will keep it to a general and not personal explanation.

Think of BML as a hole in the sign in which it is placed....or perhaps more accurately, sucking in the sign in which it is placed into a hole! The qualities of that sign can 'appear' to be missing or lacking in the person because they do not physically manifest as the planets do. Yet BML can signify a 'presence', a 'role' or 'portrayal' someone exudes, and it appears to definitely be indicative of a FEELING of unacceptance of a natural trait by others, that a person then shuns or will not not admit to, or allow to exist in itself, in the desire to feel accepted. A case of self-denial, so to speak. Its position can often refer to the natural, uninhibited and innocent nature of the child which is curbed as puberty sets in. BML is very much associated with 'the inner child'.

What are the qualities of Cancer? It is the sign of nurturing, closeness, emotional bonding, home and the mother instinct. Suck this is and what do you get? Someone who has strong feelings that this was never present or expressed in their daily life but has a hidden capacity within themselves to do so. BML as an astrological point cannot produce anything on its own. It's needs an aspect with a planet through which its natural quality can be expressed. If there are soft aspects, this 'presence' and/or 'natural trait' can be shown through one's nature but it is the harsh aspects, representing life experiences, to BML that can make it turn off or turn away from everything the sign it is in represents. BML is Cancer inwardly cares SO MUCH that it classically turns off expression of outer feeling, as a defence mechanism to survive, which can FEEL pretty harsh if it is bound to and by Saturn's every day reality. Such can make BML in Cancer feel that it does not care about anyone/anything, does not possess the mothering instinct, does not want children, because it felt to miss all a child longs for. In fact, it is emotionally measuring life through the mirror image of its own instead of what it could emotionally create and is possible if only it would dare to show its feelings. The child's natural mothering qualities, for instance, might have been directed towards the doll it played with, that became its child upon whom it lavished all its love and care in a way it may not have felt to have received it itself. OR, it may have subjected the doll to the pain within itself, blaming itself that it was not worthy to be loved. (BML square Venus).
Several charts with BML in Cancer have also correlated to pregnancy difficulties and terminations if the specific houses relating to birth and children have been involved. To deal with an outer reality, BML escapes into the inner world and creates an inner reality that is just as emotionally strong. The child who never was in itself, or never existed, takes on a life within.

Saturn to BML is the tug of war between what one inwardly FEELS to be true and the outer reality that agrees or shows otherwise. Saturn in Capricorn is the classic builder of walls around one's self that acts as the castle of protection, in this case for the child within. So, how can one ever express love shared with another (Libra and 7th house influence) if one barrs one's self from feeling it, to save from being hurt? Yet, one might find that expressing love can open a world of feeling that lies dormant within. BML-Venus-Saturn T-square.

The most positive about BML in the 7th house to Saturn in Capricorn is that others see this 'presence' that one exudes. The disconnection from personal feeling enables one to become unemotionally involved with another at a personal level. They feel everything inside, so can give good advice, protect and defend another against pain based upon a natural 'gut feeling' and 'natural first nature instinct' of inwardly knowing what is right and what is wrong.

F.

[Howl]

Frisiangal :) how does the BML "hole" work if there are a stack of other planets in the same sign, heavily expressing the qualities of that sign, and "pinning" it in place? Might BML represent only one of the qualities, one aspect of the sign not being manifested??

[cossie]

Hi ,

After reading Frisiangals post it is interesting to notice that at the beginning of my last post I said I didnt consider myself to be a typical Capricorn ascendant.Is that my BML in Capricorn not admitting to those qualities?!

Well as Charmvirgo so rightly pointed out I do have BML Lilith in Capricorn opposite my Saturn in Cancer.

I am new to BML myself,although enlightened by Frisiangals comments on my aspects,I am still struggling to get my head around it all!

However after reading what it means to have BML in cancer opp saturn in Capricorn as in Charmvirgo's case, I can see how my experience may well be the opposite of that.

I have always known that I would be a mother. In many ways I acted out my nurturing abilities from an early age as I always felt the urge to have someone or something to care for,usually a pet.
Becoming a mother was a well anticipated time of my life and being a mum is my full time job/my career,for indeed I have denied my need for a fulfilling career outside the home(BML in Capricorn).
I have never been ambitious even though I know deep down I would like to be running my own successful business!
That must be my BML at work again!

[StarrySkies]

Hello, I have a late Capricorn ascendant with ASC ruler in Cappy as well. I'm often painfully shy in social situations. I actually go unnoticed in class sometimes. I chafe when it comes to showing "deeper" emotions, and, for example, sometimes it's hard for me to cry in public (Cap moon). But sometimes I don't feel like a typical Cap ascendant. I actually hate responsibilty and try to get out of it whenever I can despite having a stellium of Cappy.

There's a constant tug of war between them and my Sag Sun and Mercury. I can be really irresponsible, impulsive and spontaneous. It could also be because of Aquarius intercepted in my first house. I have venus conjunct my Ascendant too. There are some days I dislike all that Cappy energy, but then other times I embrace it. It's a part of me, and I guess when I go out to the "real world," it will come in handy some day.;) I just wish I didn't have Jupiter opposing my Cappy stellium though...:? My BML is in Scorpio in the 9th H btw...along with Mars and Pluto...not sure what that means exactly.:confused:

[freedomlover]

These comments by 2Rainbows really struck me, but I felt my reply belonged on this thread, as it was an "aside" on the thread it was originally posted on (Soul mate or delusion?):

moon opposite saturn is beyond an issue, its not good if you're asking on the my statement of moon op sat, garnered from astro.com- this can be quite difficult in a relationship, especially emotionally. the chief danger is one will not interact emotionally/emotionally vacant/distant, or there may be no mutual understanding of each other's emotional nature. this can also give rise to being hypercritical and/or intolerant of each other's faults.

I thought: "Boy!!!! Does this EVER sound like ME!" BUT, I don't have Moon opposite Saturn in my chart. But then, just as quickly, it hit me : I have Cappy AC (Saturn) opposite Cancer DC (Moon)! I really believe that these placements can have the same effect as Moon opposite Saturn. It certainly does in my chart. (Of course, there can be other mitigating factors in some charts with this placement. I'm not saying that everyone with a Cappy AC has this problem.)

I started to put this in the "Any other Capricorn Moons out there?" thread, as the subject matter I'm posting related to that thread more. I decided to place it in this one because I was speaking of my Cappy AC. However, I do think they are related, and that the same energies can come through with a Capricorn Moon. Much of that "Capricorn Moon" thread sounded just like me, as well, although I do not have a Capricorn Moon. However, the same Saturn/Moon energies are combined with a Cappy Moon. My Moon is in Aquarius, although in the 1st house, whose cusp is Cappy. So I guess my Moon has a "Cappy flavor", as well?

However, I have always been a very forgiving patient person - with everyone else. It's only myself that I seem to have trouble being forgiving and patient with.

I will also share a dream I once had with you, as I think it relates to these issues:

I was a little baby, holding out my arms towards my mother. I heard myself saying, "Ma-ma". The response I received was that the door of the walk-in freezer in front of me opened, and a big blast of cold air hit me in the face. (I feel that I was being shown how I felt trying to "connect" emotionally with my mother when I was very small.)

Anyway, I thought I would share my thoughts and see if anyone else has noticed how the energies play out the same, in the ways I've stated.

[pale as death]

haha-i find myself in your words -in also a cappy asc!
n it is rare that any1 of "us" has a happy childhood.
i was serious ,way back ,even when i was only 5.
ofcourse i was bullied by all kinds of bastards.
i did forgive,but i will never forget.
but most of us will succes in profesional life,n that makes me movin foward;) :D !
as i like too say the- succes is the best revange!

[SimplyRed]

Cap rising here. I was sooooosoo Shy when young. Also have Pisces sun.

Never talked to people much at all.

Have known a few Saturn on ascendant people, they have a hard time letting go of the responsible title. Even risng signs such as fire have a difficult time.

[Lissa]

Another Capricorn rising(4º)here!Just like SimplyRed,I have a Pisces Sun(26º),but I also have Moon(5º),Mercury(9º)and Venus(27º)in Aries,with Jupiter in Leo(3º)trining the Sun,Moon and Mercury and squaring Venus.I also have Saturn(3ºAquarius)in the1st house.

I always saw the Ascendant as being the mask we wear,the way we appear to others and how others perceive us at first-no more than that.And it's true-I'm incredibly shy.I can know someone for a long time,and still feel uncomfortable next to that person,not knowing what to say.I can even get shy around5year old children!I only feel comfortable when I'm with my group of friends.This is a very upseting thing to me-with all that Arian energy in my chart,I'm very spontaneous,enthusiastic,impulsive and even agressive.I feel like I have much to give,but something stops me from allowing others to get close.I never doubt my own value,although I do have lots of insecurities about my physical appearance.When people first know me,they think I'm very responsable,organized,serious-minded and even a little bit sad or not too cheerful.When people get to know me-or when I allow them to get closer-they realise I'm much more cheerful and positive minded then they thought at first.It's so upseting for me to have that heavy Ascendant.I show absolutly NO Capricornian traits.I'm incredibly disorganized and impatient,lacking the ability to focus in the same subject for a long time,or to work hard and wait a long time for something that would eventualy benefit me.

I try to overcome this shyness by putting myself in challenging social circunstances,like going alone to a place I've never been before,but it hasn't done much for me;it only helps to get me even more anxious and disapointed with myself.For instance:about two years ago,I signed up for a writing workshop where I didn't know anyone,and almost cried in front of30strangers LOOOL.

A Capricorn Ascendant is probably harder to work with when you're a teenager,and people expect you to be wild and free and act crazy(although I can't talk about this because I'm still a teenager lol).I used to blame my Capricorn Ascendant for my socialization problems,always wishing I would have born40minutes later,so I would be a Sagitarius rising lol!But I don't think we should blame the planets on our problems-we should always work to make the best out of our chart,and I'm still trying to work with my Capp Ascendant:) .