Saturn in Dignity and Debility

[Arian Maverick]

This series of threads was created with the intention of discussing the influence of planetary dignity and debility in natal astrology. Each planet has been designated its own thread and a quick reference sheet of this planet's dignity and debility has been provided.

Dignity:


Saturn exerts rulership over Capricorn and Aquarius
Saturn is exalted in Libra


Debility:

Saturn is in its detriment in Cancer and Leo
Saturn is in its fall in Aries


Arian Maverick

[Nackie]

Hi Arian,
I have saturn in cancer--my only water sign--in the 9th. It's a whopper, though, only have squares as aspects. It squares Jupiter, Mars, Chiron and AC. Lucky me.

This placement of saturn means to me that the person can easily become cold and unfeeling (cancer=feeling, saturn depresses, especially so when he's unhappy as here). I think it isolates, too, because of this, and you become a "taskmaster" as it were--I notice that with my family, especially with my son's education--it is VERY important to me that he gets a good education, and I'm definitely not adverse to old-school authority ideals. A child must also learn to obey and behave in society, and not just learn that only their desires and wants are important in life. I get so sick of my and the newer generations selfishness in life, the "I am the most important being, if my needs are not being met by 150% then there is something wrong here".

Ooops, getting off on a tangent there ;)

So, yeah, saturn in detriment is noticeable in a person. hehe

BTW, I wrote another post in the medical astrology section. I read somewhere that saturn in cancer can show bad water retention. Can anyone support or put down this theory?

BR,
Nackie

[Catatonia]

My Saturn is in Sagittarius at 29*. How do I interpret that?

[Keishin]

I've got Saturn debilitated in Leo in the 3rd, but thankfully he's also part of a Grand Fire trine with Moon, Mercury and Neptune, plus sextile my Ascendant.

As a result I find I have massive stage fright (Saturn in Leo) and often find it difficult to communicate (3rd) when nervous. I also loathe small talk and don't find it comes naturally to me. I would prefer to get serious (Saturn again) when I talk rather than blather on about nonsense.

Interestingly enough, it also indicates my interruption in early education. I loved to sing ever since I was a child, but my school system decided to stop having classes in the arts so I went most of my life without being trained, until recently. I'm having to work twice as hard to keep up with others my age, but in true Leo fashion, I find I make up for it with talent. :)

[SunMoon]

That's very interesting Keishin! Catatonia, i also have Saturn is in Sagittarius and i've read somewhere that it means a need to understand everything and also having difficulty understanding many reasons to things. Saturn defining limits and sagittarius being about learning. So it may limit education. Also, i've read that Saturn in a water or fire sign is not a ''good thing'', but it always depends which way you look at it and on the other aspects and tendencies in the chart.

[GeminianCancer]

Also, i've read that Saturn in a water or fire sign is not a ''good thing'', but it always depends which way you look at it and on the other aspects and tendencies in the chart. I would disregard that bit about Saturn being in fire/water signs. I avoid making value statements about "good" or "bad" placements. Each placement has its good side and its bad side, regardless of element or modality. Plus, as you mentioned, you need to look at other aspects and look at the chart as a whole.

[EGOR]

I have Saturn in Leo in the 5th house.

I don't feel that this placement is necessarily "bad," if looked at from a certain point of view. With Leo, Saturn acts as sort've a "filter:" it brings all the energies that Leo expresses into focus. I'll use a Leo Sun as a point of contrast.

Leo Sun: "I'm the best because I just am."

Leo Saturn: "I'm the best because out of everyone tested, I scored the highest."

Leo Saturn would rather see the Philharmonic Orchestra than a guy on a street corner doing covers of old songs. Leo Saturn is easily bored by simple board games; it wants the highest rated cutting-edge video or computer games. Leo Saturn doesn't scour the streets looking for crack that was cooked up in someone's basement; it calls it's dealer and has him hand deliver his highest grade of cocaine flown in straight from Columbia. Leo Saturn doesn't want you to worship what's between her/his legs because he/she thinks it's the best you'll ever get; it wants you to worship it after you've been convinced that it's the best you'll ever get. ;)

If Leo = "good taste," then Leo Saturn = "refined taste."

(Disclaimer: the "interests" displayed in this post are merely for the purpose of demonstration, and may or may not reflect the interests of the actual poster. :) )

[Morghana Stellara]

I also have Saturn in Leo (12th)... and agree that it refines the Leo energy somewhat. Saturn is strong in my chart, forming a Sun-Neptune trine and a loose conjunction with my moon. Though in it's detriment in Leo, I have learned to appreciate the benefits of this planet's influences.

I fear I will have a more difficult time teaching my daughter how to channel her Saturnine energies constructively. Her natal Saturn is in Cancer in the 5th, and forms exclusively hard aspects (all less than 4*) to Mercury, Venus, Mars, Pluto, Jupiter, and Asc. The quicinx to her pluto/mars conjunction worries me the most, I think.

[Arian Maverick]

I recommend that you read the descriptions of the planets in signs, planets in houses, and aspects on the main site; in your daughter's case Saturn in Cancer - Cancer Saturn (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/saturn-in-cancer.php), Saturn in Cancer - Cancer Saturn (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/saturn-in-5th-house.php), and Saturn's astrological aspects (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/saturn-aspects.php), which contains links to Saturn quincunx Pluto (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/saturn-quincunx-pluto.php) and Saturn quincunx Mars (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/saturn-quincunx-mars.php) as well as Pluto conjunct Mars (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/pluto-conjunct-mars.php).

I'm curious how these quincunxes appear in her chart; does she have any yod configurations (two planets sextile each other, both quincunx a third)? Exactly which hard aspects does Saturn make to the planets you listed? Are any of these planets conjunct besides Mars and Pluto? What signs are they in?

I have natal Saturn in Capricorn in the tenth house--sort of the opposite position as your daughter--but Saturn also makes some difficult aspects to my natal planets, the most difficult being a relatively tight square aspect (within two to three degrees) with my first house Sun-Venus-Mercury conjunction in Aries and a quincunx aspect to my chart ruler Mars in Gemini in the third house. This energy has manifested in my life as a extreme sense of duty and responsibility (Saturn)--to whom, I am unsure--to excel in academic pursuits (perhaps represented by Mars in a thinking/learning house and sign); my performance is a large part of my perceived identity (Aries and first house), and my self-esteem (again, Aries and first house) is greatly dependent upon factors that are sometimes outside of myself.

For you daughter, I'd guess that the lesson she must learn in this incarnation is to learn to discipline and structure (Saturn) her creative energies (fifth house); perhaps she must also do the same with her emotions (Cancer). You should ask Tim for one of his keyword interpretations; he is much better at this than I am ;)

One thing that I have difficulty understanding is if planets in signs or houses of their debility necessarily exert less influence upon an individual's life than planets in signs of neither dignity nor debility. I don't personally believe this idea, but I recall reading it elsewhere, particularly in the interpretations offered by free astrology programs you can download online. Do planets in signs of debility indicate weaker energy, or rather energy that has to "fight" due to the inherent differences between the nature of a particular planet and the sign or house it inhabits? Is it possible that a planet that has to "fight" to exert its influence in a particular sign may manifest itself more strongly--although arguably much less easily--than a planet more "at home" in a particular sign? My tenth house Saturn in Capricorn acts like a bulldozer in my chart, dominating more weakly-placed planets, but sometimes I find my Venus in Aries (in detriment) attempting to fight back although she knows she is certainly no match for Saturn. Perhaps Venus will never function as well for me as she would if located in another sign, but sometimes I wonder if my ego/personality attempts to compensate for this by bestowing me with an almost refined Libran appreciation for art and beautiful things. Or perhaps I am simply confusing sign and planetary influences, and my natal Sun-Venus conjunction in the Leo decanate and Libran duad can explain this...

Perhaps your daughter's Saturn in Cancer will likewise try to "fight back?" This probably isn't the best descriptive term to use, but it's all I can think of for now.

Arian Maverick

[Morghana Stellara]

Hey Arian, thanks for the references to the other posts; I will be reading them shortly.

Here is her chart.... some unfortunate aspects that will challenge my abilities as a mother as she grows. At this point, though, she is amazingly well-behaved, affectionate, brilliant, and healthy! I don't see any yod configurations, though I have only recently become familiar with this configuration and may not have looked closely enough.

You know, at her tender age I can already see her strong sense of duty and responsibility - but I always attributed a lot of it to her moon in Virgo. I am posting her chart, so you can see the aspects made to Saturn. As she is an Aquarius with many Capricorn planets, Saturn seems to play a large role here.

949


Do planets in signs of debility indicate weaker energy, or rather energy that has to "fight" due to the inherent differences between the nature of a particular planet and the sign or house it inhabits? Is it possible that a planet that has to "fight" to exert its influence in a particular sign may manifest itself more strongly--although arguably much less easily--than a planet more "at home" in a particular sign?


Hmmm... food for thought. My Leonine Saturn energy in h11 (yeah, I can relate to intense stage fright in younger years!) has responded well to conscious transformation over the years. I have now overcome most of my stage fright and shyness.

[Lissa]

my saturn is in virgo in the 7th house/ 27 degrees

not totally sure what that means yet... still learning :(

Saturn in the7th has to do with structuring one's relationships.Relationships may be a battlefield for you,Saturn tends to restrict the are of the chart where it is located but ultimately it brings the potential to create strong,long lasting relationships where respect and committment are keys.Saturn can be a little hard to manage,because of the restrictive tendencies it brings:your7th house Saturn can make you take too much responsability in relationships,facing your social interactions with much seriousness,all of this in a Virgo way-detail oriented and aiming for perfection.

[Charm]

I have Saturn in leo conjunct my moon in leo in house 9 with Leo on Midheaven. I also have sun, mercury, mars in Capricorn in house 2. I find myself constantly wanting to have fun, do cool things, but feel restricted in that. I also feel restricted in my emotional self expression, as if I don't have emotional "rights". So I have been working through that whole -deserving of good things. Especially since I just had my Saturn return (Jan 7). So. Saturn in leo over moon can be a drag, but on the other hand. with the Leo moon. I love love love attention and know how to put spark into any party when I want to. Intrroverted extrovert

[Kingsley]

Hello again Charm

Because you have Moon/Saturn natally, when Saturn transits your moon you have a degree of "immunity" You may handle this aspect better than others who do not have the aspect.

Sometimes its good not to show emotions especially if you are a politician. If you have a job like paramedic, the Moon/Saturn will also help with keeping a balance during shocking circumstances.

Debilitated Saturns like retrograde Saturns are not that problematic and just reqire getting used to. Saturn in the 8th can be indolent and Saturn in the 7th can be avoident, Saturn in 9th untrusting and so by adding the debility here, just means more of life's experiencial learning is involved. Its good to get an understanding how the "volume" control on these planetry dignities actually work.

If someone has all planets peregrine, (or retrograde) now that can be very interesting. Pump up the volume with experiencial learning here!

kingsley

[Charm]

I thought about what you said. And it is really true!!! In a crisis, I am sooooo level headed! Especially when there is a medical emergency!!!! Then I have to go deal with my emotions after the event is over!!! Thanks for the insight...

Charm

[autumnleaf]

These are great topics that should be bumped to the top for further discussion, IMO.

One thing I didn't see questioned here is what if Saturn is Retrograde and in it's Fall? What happens to the energy then?

[Intercepted Sun]

The moment I stumbled with the dignity/debility posts, I started looking for this particular one :)

Unfortunately no other saturn in libra posted yet, so I guess I get to angst on my own for a while about having an exalted saturn conjunct pluto squaring my capricorn mercury and capricorn sun.

kinda like being between the sword and the wall every single moment :D

(extremely self-righteous, though, and yes, injustice makes me go all RAWR. I´ve been described as hyper territorial -my saturn is in the fourth house,but so are pluto and jupiter to add to the fun-, and yes, I do set the law to which people behave around me when in my space, and yes, I expect them to follow it. I do not allow -the wording should be that, as I go extremely military-like when this happens- disharmony in my surroundings, and do not allow unjustified aggression. I also keep a huge distance from others, and my tolerance is a "live and let live with plenty of distance between one another" sort of tolerance. Oh, and can´t be aggressive towards someone I feel is weaker than myself, so I end up putting up with more than I can really handle -neptune opposition ASC has a little to do with this-, and many many times I don´t do things because I don´t feel it´s fair-this used to include asking for my own needs, which was extremely damaging, and asking for help, which I don´t tend to do- )

I was told by an astrologer that I should be careful of not letting saturn block me so much, or it might turn everything into ice, so right now I am trying to focus the libra energy into fairness to myself as much as to others. So far is helping a lot to lower the self-punishing/inhibiting side of saturn.

[deanna]

I have Saturn in Aries-4th house BUT I also have exalted Juptier in Cancer in the 8th house.

Juptier has my back thank goodness with the hard Saturn placement.

Best Regards,

-De

[hermetic]

The moment I stumbled with the dignity/debility posts, I started looking for this particular one :)

Unfortunately no other saturn in libra posted yet, so I guess I get to angst on my own for a while about having an exalted saturn conjunct pluto squaring my capricorn mercury and capricorn sun.

kinda like being between the sword and the wall every single moment :D

(extremely self-righteous, though, and yes, injustice makes me go all RAWR. I´ve been described as hyper territorial -my saturn is in the fourth house,but so are pluto and jupiter to add to the fun-, and yes, I do set the law to which people behave around me when in my space, and yes, I expect them to follow it. I do not allow -the wording should be that, as I go extremely military-like when this happens- disharmony in my surroundings, and do not allow unjustified aggression. I also keep a huge distance from others, and my tolerance is a "live and let live with plenty of distance between one another" sort of tolerance. Oh, and can´t be aggressive towards someone I feel is weaker than myself, so I end up putting up with more than I can really handle -neptune opposition ASC has a little to do with this-, and many many times I don´t do things because I don´t feel it´s fair-this used to include asking for my own needs, which was extremely damaging, and asking for help, which I don´t tend to do- )

I was told by an astrologer that I should be careful of not letting saturn block me so much, or it might turn everything into ice, so right now I am trying to focus the libra energy into fairness to myself as much as to others. So far is helping a lot to lower the self-punishing/inhibiting side of saturn.

I am another Libra Saturn, similar as yours, in 4th conj Pluto... also square asc
And I am quite confused by Saturn being exalted here? his energies used for the best, in a relationship sign? cooling down and drawing restrictions in relationship between two people. As a Libra Sun, I always refused this.
Also, are we supposed to be serious, hard working, studious natures... ? :confused: As a child, I always was The Responsible one, most tortured by thoughts I have not worked hard enough and such.
But on the other hand , as I got older, being a mellow Cancer asc I started allowing myself too much leisure time, in order to feel better, to heal, only to hear the saturn beating me up over it way too harsh.
I am also very serious, even when I try to be a little less serious, it somehow goes against my nature.
Saturn in 4th may be similar to Saturn in Cancer, so I feel it's not that good.
I think Saturn in 4th inhibited my childhood, I never really was a carefree child. It hindered my relationships too, also being the ruler of 7th house in my case.
I never feel at home. I feel better being a nomad, away from home. Every place that isn't my home feels more comfortable somehow.
I have my misantropic bouts, feeling like a old bore to everyone around me. Ice queen being my middle name, have difficulty relaxing and enjoying myself.

I can be hard working, sure, but even then, I still feel I should do more so I have nothing out of it but more torture. Depression is from Saturn, right? I've seen nothing but bad from Saturn, and even if it is exalted in Libra, I've yet to see this :mad:
(can you tell I hate Saturn?)

[SunConjunctPluto]

I've got saturn in aries in the 4th that trines mars in leo in the eighth and I'm not going to focus on the down side the good side is lots of stamina,mental and physical...I never give up.

[Intercepted Sun]

I am another Libra Saturn, similar as yours, in 4th conj Pluto... also square asc
And I am quite confused by Saturn being exalted here? his energies used for the best, in a relationship sign? cooling down and drawing restrictions in relationship between two people. As a Libra Sun, I always refused this.
Also, are we supposed to be serious, hard working, studious natures... ? :confused: As a child, I always was The Responsible one, most tortured by thoughts I have not worked hard enough and such.
But on the other hand , as I got older, being a mellow Cancer asc I started allowing myself too much leisure time, in order to feel better, to heal, only to hear the saturn beating me up over it way too harsh.
I am also very serious, even when I try to be a little less serious, it somehow goes against my nature.
Saturn in 4th may be similar to Saturn in Cancer, so I feel it's not that good.
I think Saturn in 4th inhibited my childhood, I never really was a carefree child. It hindered my relationships too, also being the ruler of 7th house in my case.
I never feel at home. I feel better being a nomad, away from home. Every place that isn't my home feels more comfortable somehow.
I have my misantropic bouts, feeling like a old bore to everyone around me. Ice queen being my middle name, have difficulty relaxing and enjoying myself.

I can be hard working, sure, but even then, I still feel I should do more so I have nothing out of it but more torture. Depression is from Saturn, right? I've seen nothing but bad from Saturn, and even if it is exalted in Libra, I've yet to see this :mad:
(can you tell I hate Saturn?)

ouch. I relaaaate. Being a capricorn sun, the saturn energies feel like more of the same (specially with the sun/saturn square. the intercepted cancer in my first house gets me a trine to my gemini rising instead of the square... but then saturn goes and squares my mercury XD you can´t escape mr. saturn -.-).... buuuuuuuuut.... my sun is in the seventh, so I also get the limiting feeling when it comes to relationships. It´s like... vulnerability land O.O better retreat at the first sign of possible rejection, better retreat (or set structures, lots! and pluto adds so much emotional intensity T.T, but I'll try to stick to saturn here).


Saturn is not about fun, but its sense of structure is not bad either. It´s just serious. And the exalted saturn is like a jury and judge all in one -but a very very fair one- and very self reliant -as it has to do in a way with feeling we can´t rely on others- and does bring the mediator/justice side of libra to a whooole other level, and has the potential of being really really good at keeping a balance in relationships instead of limiting them.

but the "bad" side is that all that is born from saturn comes from cravings and fears. Yes, we get self-reliance, but at the expense of not having felt emotionally contained when little, and we are fair in our dealings with people because we have the whole pack of responsabilities when younger.

add pluto to that, and it´s a stroong mix of fears and power and control to have in such a sensitive house o_o

buuuuuuuuut... it´s a house and planet that relate to the past. we can grow and leave the home that felt constricting, and we get to have to only answer to our own demands and be responsibles of ourselves (with that aries tugging at the midheaven).
saturn in any house is harsh, because it is its nature, but that´s because it forces us to work on that area. the less we work on it, the more fear we feel and the more pressure it applies (saturn/pluto rampages by transit are sooo evil). It points that we fear what is in that house/not having what is in that house. So far the only way to handle this that I've found was check why I felt that I had to pressure myself so much, and what was lacking in my childhood that made me do it, why was I, as an individual, was associating 4th house related things with things to protect myself from. saturn there is just emboding childhood experiences and fears. Add the cardinal/angular side to the mix (libra/4th house, and you and I also have cardinal sun signs), so the ability to initiate change at the sight of obstacles is there. The squares are also good for this, the friction is inevitable, so it has to be answered

I am not saying any of this is easy nor fun. depression, loneliness, irrational guilt, bottling emotions up, a messed up childhood, refusing nurturing and feeling one might be unable to nurture others, everything is there and is awful and true. saturn is a call to attention, and is there to point that it is in us (personal -4th house- responsability -saturn-) to bring to our lives what was lacking. pluto being there too is a call for inner transformation. And both call for absolute honesty towards ourselves and our needs.It's a huge knot, but it´s inner, so it only need ourselves to be turned to its best side.

try voicing your emotional needs a bit more -to people you absolutely trust-? (that after therapy and lots lots of dissecting my poor birth chart were rather helpful to me, and your libra sun should make it easier to talk to other people than my capricorn sun. Fairness is about being fair to others and to ourselves. You'll get panic attacks first and guilt-tripping, but it´s soooo odd when one finally notices that nothing terrible happens o.o) Oh! and check your venus! It might point to a place from where you can relax that libra knot a bit)

oh, and as a side note of this extremely long post -sorry for that, got carried away-, saturn's hard work and seriousness only is needed on the area of our lives that saturn points to. adding a little venusian fun or going on wild rampages on other points is absolutely allowed ^^

[Night Sky]

One thing that interests me is that Saturn has detriment in Aries... Mars' sign.

While Mars is exalted in Capricorn... sign of Saturn.

I am wondering as to why one of these planets does well in the others' sign, while the other one is in aversion to the other.


If Saturn in Aries restricted the self confidence of a person... how does Mars in capricorn not suffer some similar restriction...

My thinking behind this is that Mars in Capricorn will disposit to Saturn and be under control of Saturn. While in Aries Saturn is under the control of Mars.

I suppose Mars invigorates Saturn's cold temperament while in Capricorn. While in Aries Saturn suucks the life out of Mars. This is one explanation.

[Awakened_Pisces]

Saturn is great in Libra or Taurus. Saturn is in Pisces(In Scorpio) for me. And Scorpio/Pisces for me has been a great relationship. Pisces(like me) can sometimes get lost or misinformed on the facts. Scorpio says "Hold up". And makes you look deeper. Alot deeper. But it's also a very sweet and comforting sign. People don't understand Scorpio. I do. Just like I understand Lilith. They need loving, that's all. They need loving.

[Kingsley]

Mars likes the colder and dryer environment of Capricorn, it cools him down and his abilities better function in Cappy ways. Saturn on the other hand gets a "cook out" in Aries (hot and dry) and this being his opposite sign to the exhalted home of Libra. Libra 'air' is hot and moist, warm compared to Aries so that is why Saturn enjoys it there instead of Aries. One might love going to France but that doesnt mean that french people enjoy going to Australia.

kingsley

[Shining Ray]

I have Saturn/Virgo in 1st house conjuct Asc, and it is in fall in this house, it also opposes my Sun, and rules my 5th house. Saturn being placed in an earth sign seems to work well when I am in that mode of operation i.e acting disciplined and responsible with my duties in the "mundane world".

It's hard having Saturn so close on my asc and it is a real problem for me, I can come across as not very self expressive to people, because I suffer from shyness, fears and anxieties in new situations, I do feel locked up inside myself at times. I literally freeze up when I am afraid, sometimes I can't even hide it, and I might as well wear a badge with all my inadequicies on it. I have wished I had Saturn in another house at least it wouldn't be so obvious to people. It's a difficult job trying to hide and defend how vulnerable your feeling when Saturn is right on the asc.

I have bought books on self confidence, but they don't ever help. I don't know what to do any more. I get down but I always have the strength to keep going on and always will. And maybe I have utilized some of that strength from Saturn over the years. I can see some of the significance of the dignities and debilities, although an individual has the choice to work with these energies. Mars in Capricorn's energy is tempered by being placed in Capricorn and some have a steady drive with this placement, which helps with the fulfillment of goals and ambitions. And as they say achievement you have to "make" happen, which is a very Martian expression. Saturn in Aries and 1st house can make the energy more hesitant before it goes after something or because it feels inadequate it's energy can overcompensate and some of these individuals can appear selfish and need to desperately express their willpower, and they feel a failure when it comes to asserting themselves etc. Again how severe the conflict is depends on aspects to the Saturn in fall.

[Kingsley]

Is Saturn in Fall in Virgo? I wish that cat would stop licking Ray, he's cute though

k

[Awakened_Pisces]

Sometimes Saturn himself isn't even the problem. It could be signs that have nothing to do with Saturn that makes his energies unable to express themselves.

Example: 7th House ruler is Aquarius. Inside are Saturn, Mars, Venus. Infact, Venus and Saturn are only 3 minutes and 5 seconds apart.

With such an obvious beautiful expression, why was I subject to my misery?

Simple, Lilith happened to also be in Aquarius. Conjunct Chiron whom himself happened to be in my Ascendant. It doesn't make things better that the Ascendant was the prideful Leo. I call it "The triangle of public doom". My humilation and sadness was beyond belief. But it grew my soul to new horizens.

[aquarius7000]

For me, the Saturn shadows fall in my 11th house, in Cancer, where Saturn is in detriment. Though this might be true for many, but for me, a Cancerian Saturn native, home really is where I turn to first, when I'm plagued by fears or am plain & simply down. It's like, if I have a bad day at work, then, after work, all I have in mind is getting back home (to known surroundings), whereas other people, just to get their mind off what's troubling them, might go out for a drink with someone, or indulge in some kind of a hobby etc. Also, when I was a child, parental home & family (Cancer) were rather stable and disciplined (Sat). It still is.

My experience of it.

:)aquarius7000

[Shining Ray]

Hi Kingsley,

No Saturn doesn't fall in Virgo, I said it falls in the 1st house of the chart. I find Saturn in Earth signs work well. Mars in earth signs and houses always work very productively not just in Capricorn. My pet cat Zodiac, has been keeping this place clean :D . O.k just my screen but he is cute, I like his little paws on the screen.

[Kingsley]

Hi Shining Ray, Saturn in that location can be like wearing a badge of sorts. I wonder what Saturn-Asc would say on some of those funny bumper stickers statements? I am sure that you have an assortment of Saturn "badges" including some plain black ones showing different kinds of humour.

Self help-self esteem books are too childish for saturn perhaps? Saturn needs someone at least equal in stature as himself to learn a few tricks or two.

I am wondering whether you wear black at all Ray?

kingsley

[aquarius7000]

I am wondering whether you wear black at all Ray?

Interesting point, and if I may take this up briefly, to give my input. Being an Aquarian Sun & Mer (but I associate both Sat & Ura with Aqu), with Sat being the highest planet in my chart and also actively aspected (Moon, Ven, Mars, Plu); I wear a lot of black, also blue & grey.

:)aquarius7000

[Shining Ray]

Yes Saturn on Asc is like a badge the dsc (others) get to see. Saturn is right on the public angles, no hiding my Saturn. I would rather it was in the 12th. But then I would be picking and choosing my life tasks, I was born with Saturn there for a purpose. I can see humour in life, and it helps with handling Saturn to have a sense of humour. I don't know why self helps books don't work, but do any of these type of self help books ever work. I suppose again it is the work I put into helping myself achieve growth in the area of Saturn. I desperately don't want to be failure in life that is a fear of mine that I never amount to anything.

Yesterday I was talking to these women in an office as I was just passing by, and they were so confident in expression that I wished I could be that confident in situations. I guess I am just focusing in on my insecurities, they all have Saturn placed somewhere, it might not be as obvious as mine, but no doubt they have had painful lessons to deal with. I can look at it from that kind of perspective and not feel so bad about myself.

I am not a big fan of black, I like blue, purple, and white. Although my partner tells me I look sexy when I wear shirts, maybe that is also my Venus in Capricorn. Saturn in Virgo prude look :D . Although I have been thinking of changing my image too look more sophisticated, it might help with my confidence.

http://www.sterlingemployment.ca/bank/Image/OfficeGirl%20-%20Sterling%20colours%20-%20small.png