Mercury in Dignity and Debility

[Arian Maverick]

This series of threads was created with the intention of discussing the influence of planetary dignity and debility in natal astrology. Each planet has been designated its own thread and a quick reference sheet of this planet's dignity and debility has been provided.

Dignity:


Mercury exerts rulership over Gemini and Virgo
Mercury is exalted in Virgo


Debility:

Mercury is in its detriment in Sagittarius and Pisces
Mercury is in its fall in Pisces


Arian Maverick

[Howl]

Merc in detriment in Sagittarius, I have little idea what this means for me. My mind is not debilitated!! ;)

I suppose, in the sign opposing gemini, it may have a "can't see the trees for the forest" kind of issue. I do tend to extrapolate very quickly from the physical realities of an issue to the metaphysical/ethical implications.

Sorry (sun conjunct mercury) I can't see ANYTHING wrong with my thinking :D

[ShadowRain]

Hi there - did an exercise a while ago to see whether I could figure out why a planet would be in dignity or detriment in a particular sign. So here's my take on why Mercury is in Detriment in Sag.

Mercury in Sagittarius – Detriment

Sagittarius is about the overview or wider sense of life and the cosmos, reaching for a higher ideal, philosophy and spirituality, higher mind.

Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius because it is about the communication of the message, while Sagittarius is about the content of the message, the message itself. Mercury is about the communication of the message to the masses (outside of self) while Sagittarius is about the communication with the inner self. Mercury feels uncomfortable with the deeper inner meaning that Sagittarius attributes to the message, as its intent and interest is more superficial.

It's very much a first/second attention look at things, but you can have a look at the rest of my article here - http://www.astrologersapprentice.co.za/2005/06/20/mercury-essential-dignities-debilities/ .

Hope it helps in some way.

PS: Have mercy - I was a total newbie when I was trying to figure this out.

[Howl]

Hey ShadowRain,

Thanks! My family come from South Africa & Zimbabwe, by the way. I'm dying to come visit ;)

[ShadowRain]

Hey there Howl - you should make a plan to come and visit. It's lovely and the weather plays along for the most part :)

[carnna]

This series of threads was created with the intention of discussing the influence of planetary dignity and debility in natal astrology. Each planet has been designated its own thread and a quick reference sheet of this planet's dignity and debility has been provided.

Dignity:


Mercury exerts rulership over Gemini and Virgo
Mercury is exalted in Aquarius


Debility:

Mercury is in its detriment in Sagittarius and Pisces
Mercury is in its fall in Leo


Arian Maverick
Thought I'd interject here, just so you realize that:

Mercury is exalted in virgo (as well as in rulership), fall in pisces.

mercury is rather unique in the planets as: he can be she, is like quicksilver and is hard to catch, takes on like a chameleon, cunning & clever, naturally of a hot & dry nature though rules gemini hot & moist & virgo cold & dry.
The two are mental, yet very different. One through speech, writing & manual dexterity; the other through the very act of being through, exacting, detail orientated, perfect editor type and can spot that needle in the haystack quickly.

there is no exaltation in aquarius and no fall's in leo.

[23]

Yes, I have never heard of it being exalted in Aqu. In fact, I think none of the planets are exalted in Aqu that I know of.

Still I am happy if it is, being a Mercury in Aquarius person myself!

[Arian Maverick]

Unfortunately, there seems to be quite a bit of misinformation on the Internet...I'll correct this when I get the chance :o

EDIT: In an attempt to redeem myself and my intelligence, an MSN group called Astro Zombies (http://groups.msn.com/AstroZombies/mercury.msnw) sites Mercury as being exalted in Aquarius:

Mercury: Exalted in Aquarius, Detriment in Sagittarius and Pisces, Fall in Leo, and Dignity in Gemini and Virgo. Orbits the entire zodiac in about 87 days. Remains in each Zodiac sign on the average of 7 days. This planet stands for the mind and intellect as well as communication. All the mental faculties are embodied within this planet's characteristics. Some refer to it as the path that thought travels between the unconscious mind and the conscious mind. Mercury in Retrograde which happens about four times a year can wreak havoc on signed contracts, author's drafts, computer systems, and just about anything that has a mode of communication and commitment will need to be redone when this tiny planet closest to the Sun appears Retrograde. Considered a Minor Benefic. Ruler of the Zodiac Signs:
Gemini and Virgo. Keywords: physical and mental communication

Also, from a slightly more reputable source, Robert Hand states that "some modern astrologers make Mercury exalted in Aquarius" although "there is no traditional foundation for that." This can be found in his 23rd installment of Astrology by Hand (http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0001767.HTM).

Arian Maverick

[carnna]

well, if they want to exalt mercury in aquarius can't see how it can be stoped (~grin).
I'm curious to how an aquarian mercury behaves in such exalted state though.
interesting. Does this somehow diminish virgo's exaltation of mercury?

And how do they justify it? Meaning, why have they decided that mercury is in an exalted state in aquarius, what reasoning is behind this?

aquarius, fixed, airy, masculine, ya know, the fixed signs hoard things & aquarius (ruler saturn) hoards knowledge .....
hmmmm, how does one think mentally in a fixed, exalted state? what is the precedent for this? and what about leo?

This would make mercury in fall in leo,,,,,,,the sun won't stand for it! nothing "falls" in his warm & generous sign. For he is the life giver, spirit of man, one who feeds and warms us and causes life to spring forth (though from a distance, get to close you get burned as mercury often does, but then he is of an Hot & dry one himself) and, lest anyone forget, The Authority.

Must have something to do with the age of aquarius.
ah well, wonder how they interpret it? it's amazing that anyone follows astrology with all the made up stuff out there, sigh.

zombie's did you say? ~grin


I'm sorry if you took offense, none was meant. I have so enjoyed this forum, but I see now that it is to new age for me and my traditional ways.
I shan't contradict nor correct again. It's all open, I see that now.

again, I apologize for not understanding/comprehending the specific genre of your system of dignity and debilities and will refrain from subjecting anyone to the old ways and reasons of assigning dignities and debilities, unless they ask of course.

[Arian Maverick]

I admit that I cannot see the logic behind this placement either, but summer vacation has addled my brain to such an extent that, at the time I typed this, I did not question the author's dubious logic! :rolleyes:

I'm sorry if you took offense, none was meant.

If anything, I should apologize...I'm a quintuple Aries and my ego is easily bruised. Please continue to share your astrological knowledge with the community! :)

Arian Maverick

[Manic_Monday]

The two are mental, yet very different.
That made me think of me and my sister. I'm a Virgo, she's a Gemini. We think the same, have the same opinions, and we have a lot in common. The difference is the way we express ourselves. I keep things to myself, she tells the world. We can't get along. She always annoys me, I always annoy her.

[ShadowRain]

Mercury exalted in Aquarius - my take on it is as follows:

Mercury in Aquarius – Exalted
Aquarius energy is indifferent, objective, unconventional, distant, uninvolved. It’s about the collective knowing, idealism, brotherhood. Independent, original, inventive.

Independence of through and mental energy from the emotional and subjective aspects of the message, allows Mercury to be exalted in Aquarius. Communication to the masses (outside of self) while remaining uninvolved and distant supports the Aquarian energy of the collective knowledge and knowing, the dissemination of ideas and knowledge while having no responsibility or attachment to the content of that which is being communicated.

I wouldn't really see Virgo as a mental energy - for me it's too practical to be a space cadet (which the air signs can be if not properly focussed and channeled). I have an Aquarian hubby ... and he's got a Grand Trine in Earth. Yet he still manages to get side tracked and battles to stay focussed on any particular thing for any length of time. One would think that the Grand Trine would over shadow the Aquarian Sun, but it doesn't seem to work that way. Then again ... the Sun is in detriment in Aquarius ... hmm, something to think about.

[carnna]

well, if you all want to exalt mercury AGAIN (cause if you notice only one exaltation & one fall per planet or luminary), use it. Don't see how any can have more than one exalted status, but then most modern astrologers don't know how to use it in delineating or interpret it anyhow.

I'll continue to use virgo as it's exaltation as it has been used for nearly 2 millineum (if not longer). Aquarius, Leo, Scorpio, gemini and sagittarius have no exaltations and with exception of moon in scorpio, no falls.

[ShadowRain]

** Off topic ** Carnna - not a good idea to post a potentially inflammatory comment about modern astrologers during a Mercury retrograde period ... it tends to get people's back up. ** end Off Topic **

As far as I'm aware, Mercury is in dignity in Virgo (or as the medievalists put it 'exerts rulership over Virgo'). In looking through the rest of the dignities and debilities, Mercury seems to be the only one that would be in dignity and exaltation in the same sign ... why the difference or 'special' status?

From the looks of it, as mentioned elsewhere in this forum, there is a lot of discrepancy between the various schools on what exactly constitutes the essential dignities and debilities of each planet - depends on which 'ancient' text you consult.

[Shining Ray]

I was wondering what my Mercury Fall in Pisces was supposed to mean because Mercury is my Chart Ruler.

I read this Article in the link below and I feel a lot better about the Planet now.

http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0001767.HTM

Mercury being my Chart Ruler in Pisces/Fall I have had hearing difficulties as a child, and needed an operation to fix it.

Also I had to have surgery on my hand, well my little finger because I cut all the nerves on glass. Possibly this is related to my Mercury in Fall and chart Ruler of my physical 1st house.

Maybe this is all connected to Mercury ruling hearing/communicating. I did need speech therapy lessons as well.

Mercury rules the hands, I had difficulty with my hands after the operation I couldn't use them for six weeks. Now I can't feel the top of my little finger.

Shining Ray

[Missa]

Mercury is strong in air signs in general, I guess this is where some people get the idea to make it exalted in Aquarius (for example). This is the first time I read about it though, and I'll go with Virgo like most astrologers do (and have been doing for centuries). Virgo is very different from Gemini for sure, but fits Mercury as well. Virgo is studious, critical, analytical, curious, intelligent. Though I guess that when new suitable planet is found Virgo will get a new ruler, but stay exalted in Mercury.

[freedomlover]

""Mercury is in its detriment in Sagittarius and Pisces""(quote)

I have Mercury Retrograde in Sagittarius in my 12th house, ruled by Pisces, and it is accompanied by numerous squares.

I would love to know what this means, as I have such a terrible problem with my mind. I also feel like I'm multiple personality, with the exception that I am aware of all of them- no "zoning out" while another takes over. It seems like I can be aware of several "me's" at once,and each of them has a different opinion on the same subject, and each of them wants to do something else. I feel so "scattered" - like "Humpty-Dumpty", except I don't have anyone to help put me back together.

I know that sounds really weird, but does anybody have any thoughts on that?

[pisceskitty]

Hola,

My Mercury is in Pisces Rx in the 5th house. It's opp. Pluto in the 12th, and Square my Gemini Moon in the 9th. When I was a child, I barely spoke! I was so quiet, everyone thought there was something wrong with me. I have kept a journal since I was a little girl, written poetry, short stories etc...but I'm way too secretive to let anyone read anything. I just felt like no one would "get it" anyway, so why bother.

I spent alot of time daydreaming in class, and had a vivid imagination. I had the ability to transport myself to any place in this world. Daydreaming is still one of my favorite things to do. I tend to feel like I'm all over the place, and I have the attention spand of a 2yr old..lol I get really excited about a project, and half way through, I've completely lost interest! this has been a HUGE obstacle in my life, and I need to get it together!

[Howl]

Hah, fancy that, it had never occurred to me that my Mercury was in detriment. It's in Sagittarius, within 3 (seconds) conjunction with the Sun, and more loosely conjunct Neptune.

Pisceskitty, your mercury sounds remarkably like mine. I was a shy child and have always written privately. I still am a terrific daydreamer. I never heard anybody say that daydreaming was their favourite thing to do, but that makes perfect sense! before about 14 years old, it certainly was my favourite thing to do. It remains in the top 3, and I do it every day :D. My current thing is to ride (my bike) to work and back with my headphones on - thats at least 40minutes a day spare for daydreaming!

I don't know, my Mercury doesn't behave too much like it's in detriment. Saggie would, supposedly, cause it to be a bit sloppy about detail right? A bit overenthusiastic about ideas, and a bit lax about their implementation? Well, I'm not mentally organised by nature, but the IMPORTANT thing is that I can TELL when I need to be, and purposely "make" organisation happen. Perhaps its that sextile to 3H Saturn that helps out my Mercury.

I would say for me that the conjunction with Neptune (daydreams) is more notable than my Mercury's placement in Sagittarius. I'll give you an example. Recently I realised that I make daily decisions almost entirely on gut feeling. I went into a shop and bought several things I needed yesterday, and as I was leaving, realised that I had forgotten to buy something. I decided not to take the five steps (!) to go back into the shop to get the one thing, because I didn't feel like it. Didn't want to go back in there. Walking away by myself in the sunshine felt more right :D so I did that. That isn't how most people make decisions, is it?? Yet it gives me great joy to know that I can follow the feeling and wander off into the sunshine, instead of submitting to the logical order of action at all times.

The only circumstance where I would make the opposite decision (the practical, logical, goal oriented, reliable decision) is when someone is relying upon or assessing the quality of my decisions/work. Then, I can literally spend a whole week with my nose to the grindstone churning out an essay/report/whatever. To some extent, I need that pressure. I subscribe to deadlines and expectations, otherwise I would spend eternity wandering in the sunshine, immersed in internal daydreams.

Thank goodness for Saturn, and his lovely sextile to my Sun/Merc/Neptune stellium ;)

[dblsag]

Freedom Lover -

I also have this same configeration. Mercury in Sag retrograde in the 12th. My third house is also ruled by Pisces. I feel like my only saving grace is my mercury conjunct mars and mercury conjunct Asc, and mecury sextile pluto. Also, Im also always wondering about the deeper or spiritual meaning for this placement.

[Caprising]

Having mercury progess from virgo through to sagg, I think I may be able to add another veiw of how merc works in these signs. Natally, merc in virgo (in 9th) was great, I learned to read and write very easily, quickly grasping where to put the commas and full stops, all the detailed stuff came naturally.When Merc progressed into libra, I started to read faster, and actually thought about the content of the story as I was reading, on the negative side I also became a bit of an "airhead" (with jupiter in aries now in my progressed 3rd house (house of mind) I did tend to ramble on a bit at the slightest provocation! Fast forward to 25 years of age and merc progressed into scorpio, man what a change!! now I had to delve deeply into everything that I thought about or read (mostly centred around sex/death/life!) , and with several progressed planets now in scorp this was emotionally challenging to say the least. Chalk and cheese would be a good way to describe the differing thinking patterns. Now finally my merc has progressed into sagg, giving me a different expression of how I think. The previous merc positions are still involved but the sagg progression is not into detailed knowledge like merc in virgo (although I can still do it if it involves something interesting (like a motorcycle engine:) ) but my thinking has become more "scattered" and it's a lot harder to concerntrate on mundane activities, like doing my tax return bores me to tears, I would much rather think (and read) (and talk) about philosophy and astrology, and why we are here, my focus is on sagg topics. In summary I "feel" that merc in virgo is good for people that want to study numbers and letters, like maybe a secretary type of vocation,it's easy with this placing, while merc in libra is more people orientated so would rather talk to people rather than do the numbers. Merc in scorp, well if theres a conspiracy theory involving sex, lies and people, this is a great placing to work out who did what, I wanted to be a detective at this time as this is where my mercury energy was focussed, working out the underlying motivations of people. Merc in sagg, looking at the bigger picture, while getting confused at times with the scatteredness, but seeing life differently through a different sort of thought pattern, the "big" picture, definitely not into "meaningless" numbers and letters! Merc. works differently in each sign, I am inclined to think that sometimes there is an underlying theme to some published astrologers, and that is that a planet is "good" if it can keep you in a 9 to 5 job,(like merc in virgo) while it's not "good" if you spend your time studying more interesting subjects, like philosophy, but then the major publishing companies are owned by business people, so would welcome views that keep us "at work" earning them money and power. Having said that, there is also the fact that we need to earn our daily bread also, but you don't have to accept the "normal" 9 to 5 job, there are alternative lifestyles to look at, like working part time and growing your own food , which incidently is what we used to do before the "industrial revolution", Has anyone noticed that when older folk retire from their jobs they 'get lost" in the garden! . (There goes my prog.merc in sagg, craving the freedom to do what comes naturally):D Cheers Caprising.

[siamese_dream]

I have Mercury in Gemini in the 11th house, opposite Saturn and Uranus, sextile Jupiter and MC, and conjunct Chiron.

I think that having the Saturn opposition can put a damper on my communicative abilities. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a total fog and completely miss what is going on. I also think that I'm sometimes unable to express myself clearly - unless I have what I want to say planned out, I tend to stumble over my words.

As for Mercury in Gemini itself - I enjoy this description from Astrodienst (astro.com)...
"Your mind is very active, restless and fond of change. You may get bored easily, unless something stimulating comes along. Your desire for constant activity may make you appear extremely nervous and unstable, but what is happening is that you mentally process the world around you faster than most people.


One problem stemming from your desire for new knowledge and experience is that you may never really finish anything. Try to be disciplined enough to stay with one train of thought long enough to learn something from it."


I am intellectually-oriented, scattered, curious, a very quick reader, and a great writer ...typical Gemini stuff. :p

[poshslob]

My Mercury is in Leo, which is technically in its fall. However, my Mercury doesn't feel debilitated at all.

Perhaps because it is in the 8th house, where is it is exalted by domicile since Pluto is exated by Leo.

[wilsontc]

posh,

You said:
My Mercury is in Leo, which is technically in its fall.

Traditionally, Mercury in fall in Pisces, not in Leo. Personally, I have found Mercury in Pisces making a lot more sense as being the "fall" of Mercury energy.

Traditionally,

Tim

[Jenna Jupiter]

well, if they want to exalt mercury in aquarius can't see how it can be stoped (~grin).
I'm curious to how an aquarian mercury behaves in such exalted state though.
interesting. Does this somehow diminish virgo's exaltation of mercury?

And how do they justify it? Meaning, why have they decided that mercury is in an exalted state in aquarius, what reasoning is behind this?

aquarius, fixed, airy, masculine, ya know, the fixed signs hoard things & aquarius (ruler saturn) hoards knowledge .....
hmmmm, how does one think mentally in a fixed, exalted state? what is the precedent for this? and what about leo?

This would make mercury in fall in leo,,,,,,,the sun won't stand for it! nothing "falls" in his warm & generous sign. For he is the life giver, spirit of man, one who feeds and warms us and causes life to spring forth (though from a distance, get to close you get burned as mercury often does, but then he is of an Hot & dry one himself) and, lest anyone forget, The Authority.

Must have something to do with the age of aquarius.
ah well, wonder how they interpret it? it's amazing that anyone follows astrology with all the made up stuff out there, sigh.

zombie's did you say? ~grin


I'm sorry if you took offense, none was meant. I have so enjoyed this forum, but I see now that it is to new age for me and my traditional ways.
I shan't contradict nor correct again. It's all open, I see that now.

again, I apologize for not understanding/comprehending the specific genre of your system of dignity and debilities and will refrain from subjecting anyone to the old ways and reasons of assigning dignities and debilities, unless they ask of course.

Have Mercury in Aquarius in the Virgo house, house 6. It works quite good, but i'm VERY restless.

/JJ

[poshslob]

posh,

You said:


Traditionally, Mercury in fall in Pisces, not in Leo. Personally, I have found Mercury in Pisces making a lot more sense as being the "fall" of Mercury energy.

Traditionally,

Tim

I'm confused. Isn't Pisces the detriment of Mercury?

[wilsontc]

posh,

You said:
I'm confused. Isn't Pisces the detriment of Mercury?

Yes, it is. Pisces is the detriment AND the fall of Mercury. That is why some people went around looking for a new detriment, so Pisces didn't do two things at once. However, I think Pisces works as a better "fall" than *Leo. Here is the same information on the web:
http://www.astrologycom.com/mercury.html

Having it both ways,

Tim

*Edited: original incorrectly read "Mercury"

[poshslob]

I can understand arguemnets make Mercury exalted in Aquarius. However, Leo being its fall in Mercury doesn't make much sense to me.

[Psychotik]

what if you have mercury in sag, in 3rd house, in retrograde!?

[LittleMiss]

Wanted to share some thoughts and maybe hear others expiriences about this subject.
Beeing on this yourney of self discovery that getting to know my natal chart is, - I just noticed something the other day. I guess I've been aware of it before, but not quite on this level.

I have Mercury in Pisces and I realised that I often speak based on my subconsious mind. I ask questions or give responses based upon what is "floating around" in the room rather then from what is actually going on. And also often based on my emotions, also the deep almost hidden once. This make me sometimes say kind of strange things, maybe things that are not really fiting to the conversation. It is also a bit off and on how frequent I do this. I think, much due to my virgo ascendant, that I'm able to keep it on a reasonable level and I kind of see when people fall of, but... it's kind of weird anyway.

[David_K]

Well, Ive been thinking about this for long time now and I've come down to this conclusion: a planet cannot rule and exalt in the same sign. Have you ever thought about it? How can a planet exalt in a sign which it ALREADY rules? It doesnt make any sense to me :/
I believe that Mercury exalts in Aquarius and falls in Leo. Why? Because Ive noticed many times how rational thinking (Mercury) makes a good foundation to making scientifical breakthroughs (Anquarius) and how the same rational thinking can extinguish almost any kind of enthusiasm (Leo).

[Caprising]

One of my daughters has mercury in pisces on her ascendant, boy does it work well! She spoke her first word very very early, (from memory around 5 months of age), and took to reading/speaking like a duck to water. I can't call her placement "in detriment", or "in fall", it would seem that an angular merc in pisces (or other well supported placements) can more than make up for the supposedly "weak" pisces position!.......upon reflection she was a rather quiet child until her merc/ascendant progressed into Aries, now she wont shut up !

[BobZemco]

One of my daughters has mercury in pisces on her ascendant, boy does it work well! She spoke her first word very very early, (from memory around 5 months of age), and took to reading/speaking like a duck to water. I can't call her placement "in detriment", or "in fall", it would seem that an angular merc in pisces (or other well supported placements) can more than make up for the supposedly "weak" pisces position!.......upon reflection she was a rather quiet child until her merc/ascendant progressed into Aries, now she wont shut up !

Speech is governed by the first house, voice and vocal chords are governed by the second house. Communication by the third house.

Pisces is also a Mutable Sign. I dare say Mercury in Fall in Leo (a Fixed Sign) and the results could have been different, but again it would depend on the 2nd/3rd House and their rulers and placements, especially Aries and Taurus and their rulers.

[byjove]

One of my daughters has mercury in pisces on her ascendant, boy does it work well! She spoke her first word very very early, (from memory around 5 months of age), and took to reading/speaking like a duck to water. I can't call her placement "in detriment", or "in fall", it would seem that an angular merc in pisces (or other well supported placements) can more than make up for the supposedly "weak" pisces position!.......upon reflection she was a rather quiet child until her merc/ascendant progressed into Aries, now she wont shut up !

I can't tell you how useful and interesting this post is! :biggrin:

I've Mercury in Pisces exactly conjunct Pisces MC and trine Cancer AC. He also benefits from a 1 degree Uranus square and has no other aspects within reasonable orb.

This always baffled me! And I have received half positive and half negative feedback. The fact is, I do exhibit many of the Merc.-on-MC traits, and well, but it blends with the Pisces wave...:

- wrote poetry as a child, and won poetry competitions
- school debate team captain, debated nationally
- youth political leader, represented country internationally
- won university debate competitions, judged nationally

etc. etc. People seem to regard my Pisces Merc. as "inspirational", "wise beyond years" but the Cancer Rising emphasizing 3rd Virgo Moon mitigates this and I'm known for those traits just as much.

See the poetry mixed with serious politics? All in one! And I've a Pisces Venus opposite Virgo Moon just to confuse people a little more...:w00t:

I can't imagine how much of the 'negative' traits of Merc. Pisces I must exhibit, but self-awareness is important to me. Oh, and as a child was DEFINITELY known as mischievous, well-fitted to the Mercury on MC. I was always doing crazy things (long long list) and laughing about it...:devil:

[Caprising]

I can't tell you how useful and interesting this post is! :biggrin:

I've Mercury in Pisces exactly conjunct Pisces MC and trine Cancer AC. He also benefits from a 1 degree Uranus square and has no other aspects within reasonable orb.

This always baffled me! And I have received half positive and half negative feedback. The fact is, I do exhibit many of the Merc.-on-MC traits, and well, but it blends with the Pisces wave...:

- wrote poetry as a child, and won poetry competitions
- school debate team captain, debated nationally
- youth political leader, represented country internationally
- won university debate competitions, judged nationally

etc. etc. People seem to regard my Pisces Merc. as "inspirational", "wise beyond years" but the Cancer Rising emphasizing 3rd Virgo Moon mitigates this and I'm known for those traits just as much.

See the poetry mixed with serious politics? All in one! And I've a Pisces Venus opposite Virgo Moon just to confuse people a little more...:w00t:

I can't imagine how much of the 'negative' traits of Merc. Pisces I must exhibit, but self-awareness is important to me. Oh, and as a child was DEFINITELY known as mischievous, well-fitted to the Mercury on MC. I was always doing crazy things (long long list) and laughing about it...:devil:
How lucky are you! poetry to politics...so are you going to take advantage of these placements and write a book? It would seem a waste not too!...I would

[byjove]

Hmm write a book? Nothing serious now...(not while so young, what could I have to teach/inform/enlighten about yet?) but fiction, definitely yes...

Another heavy Pisces trait - a love of fantasy (e.g. through film). I would love to write some supernatural/fantasy fiction, I adore the genre. :whistling:

Also, does your daughter by any chance have small ears?! :w00t: I have the smallest ears anyone has seen for an adult male, and I thought that must be Mercury? Maybe? I walk briskly too...and an avid love of music...and was also a bit of a dancing kid (preferably in private reflection, not show-off Leo-ish) and love to dance still.

These are very nice, relaxing activities that AREN'T apart of the difficult/negative Piscean tendencies. Any of this with your daughter?

[Caprising]

Hmm write a book? Nothing serious now...(not while so young, what could I have to teach/inform/enlighten about yet?) but fiction, definitely yes...

Another heavy Pisces trait - a love of fantasy (e.g. through film). I would love to write some supernatural/fantasy fiction, I adore the genre. :whistling:

Also, does your daughter by any chance have small ears?! :w00t: I have the smallest ears anyone has seen for an adult male, and I thought that must be Mercury? Maybe? I walk briskly too...and an avid love of music...and was also a bit of a dancing kid (preferably in private reflection, not show-off Leo-ish) and love to dance still.

These are very nice, relaxing activities that AREN'T apart of the difficult/negative Piscean tendencies. Any of this with your daughter?
No, she has normal size ears, but does get into music and dance, but then she has her moon in leo so does have an extrovert side to her. I think that merc in pisces is considered to be in detriment because of the foggy thinkling that can sometimes occur, much the opposite of merc in virgo, but we dont all want to be analytical virgo type people with a lack of piscean skills. Don't forget that merc (if direct in the birthchart) in pisces will progress into Aries where action will be added to the natal expression!

[KayBug]

I have Mercury in Pisces Fall in it's ruling 3rd house. I had always thought this was a bad placement and contributed to my inability to get my messages across in the way I wanted them to come across, my lack of ability to retain what I read for testing in school and other drawbacks with communication and intellect which it probably does. Although I did learn to read and write before I ever started school I could not recite the alphabete in order until I learned the alphabet song which took me a while.

Now that I am older, past my 50's, I don't deal with learning schoolwork and I accept my communication skills for what they are so I don't find this placement to be bad for me. I actually enjoy it. I now enjoy reading books that keep me interested all the way through, couldn't tell you alot about it after I finish them so I'm glad I don't have to do book reports. I really enjoy my daydreaming and do it anytime I am doing a mindless job around the house. While I have really been trying hard to study some astrology lately I find myself reading one thing and then veering off to open another tab to explore something I just read in the previous material without finishing what I was reading in the first place. I do go back to that tab, save it to my favorites to explore it again later.

Do I sound confusing...yes. Are my communication skills any better...no. But I am finding that this is more me and what I like than what I use to see as a drawback. I think finding your own perspective about something decides if it's in Fall or not.

[dhundhun]

Although Mercury is considered to be exalted in Virgo, it can express its best in Acquarius. As if Mercury flows freely in Aquarius.

In Leo, sometimes Mercury can draw problems, because leo is related to power - e.g. being in power, or in company of powerful people. In this situation, one may have to have control over every word and every sentence comming out of mouth.

Usually, Mercury is not so free in Leo as it is in Aquarius.

[Caprising]

I have Mercury in Pisces Fall in it's ruling 3rd house. I had always thought this was a bad placement and contributed to my inability to get my messages across in the way I wanted them to come across, my lack of ability to retain what I read for testing in school and other drawbacks with communication and intellect which it probably does. Although I did learn to read and write before I ever started school I could not recite the alphabete in order until I learned the alphabet song which took me a while.

Now that I am older, past my 50's, I don't deal with learning schoolwork and I accept my communication skills for what they are so I don't find this placement to be bad for me. I actually enjoy it. I now enjoy reading books that keep me interested all the way through, couldn't tell you alot about it after I finish them so I'm glad I don't have to do book reports. I really enjoy my daydreaming and do it anytime I am doing a mindless job around the house. While I have really been trying hard to study some astrology lately I find myself reading one thing and then veering off to open another tab to explore something I just read in the previous material without finishing what I was reading in the first place. I do go back to that tab, save it to my favorites to explore it again later.

Do I sound confusing...yes. Are my communication skills any better...no. But I am finding that this is more me and what I like than what I use to see as a drawback. I think finding your own perspective about something decides if it's in Fall or not.

NO, you don't sound confusing at all Kaybug, you explained all of that very well! Schoolwork was very boring back in the past, I think that most of us tuned out of it, because there were so many other interesting things to learn besides the alphabet, and how to do math!

[Sebastien Cheritte]

I believe that people relying too much on the mind are 'wishing to see' a fall and exaltation for this planet because they place so much emphasis on it, often when you want to see something, you do.

I feel safer with 2 millenia of hard study than a few decades of moody misinforms. Try to consider what age we're in!

[byjove]

I agree Sebastian, that we should definitely pay attention to the age of the knowledge we're re-considering. However, I think appreciating the age alone would simply mean we're conservative; not necessarily the wisest.

I also like to think that we have made some progress since ancient times. Also consider that many very old texts, despite their homage to good old knowledge, make sweeping statements; paraphrasing, I remember one text which simply said that Mercury in Pisces makes stupid men. This mirrors the house system conundrum; old vs new.

I'm curious by this change of status from being (Pisces) a place of fall and detriment (which I always thought was a unique and ridiculous feature).

So, do we lay out some of this arguement here then do a pole when enough points have been hit back and forth? Hmm

[Sebastien Cheritte]

I remember one text which simply said that Mercury in Pisces makes stupid men.

OMG, really? what inconsideration! My sister has Mercury in the 29* of Pisces, between the both of us, I haven't yet learned the dictionary,
whereas - she is one. of course, it's also conjunct Vesta
(inner self) at 0*, trine Jupiter 29* in Cancer & Merc. sextile MC at 28* in Capricorn... how do we interpret this concept now that there are so many other good placements too?? could it become balanced out with other positive influences?

But I having Mercury in Leo, recently discovered why it could be a bad thing.

All too often I over-color my speech (Leo) in such a way that it becomes so reflective of the sun (in 5th), that the speech itself is greatly overbearing ('smudging' the details) but wait... Mercury is in 6th, what now?? (i'm told i'm over-bearing and to loud). There's the real conundrum for me!
In the end, the point is made, but it could have been done with
a "less is more" concept. :biggrin:

I do consider myself progressive so I'll see Mercury in fall as an omen which encourages improvement, everyone else should too (respectfully)

Just like I have about Venus in Virgo, and Mars in cancer.

Just think about it, Those who's charts are riddled with 'falls', will be great stories of success against the odds, if they can pull themselves out of the mud of cynical love (Venus in Virgo) the samurai training inside mothers house (mars in cancer) and now... "the flames of hell??" (Mercury in Leo)..

and possibly for another thread but not at all a separate argument.
Since Uranus is the deep-seeing mind of Mercury, what if HE'S placed in Leo?

[Dew9]

If Mercury is in fall in Pisces what does it mean then if that Mercury is in cazimi with the sun and both in 2nd house??

Just wondering as I have this...

[juicey J.]

Mercury is in fall in Pisces because mecury is all about gathering info and about the details where as Pisces is intuitive and non detailed oriented. Unless of Course Pisces Traditional ruler jupiter is Virgo then they can fall into the trap of being overly nitpicky from time to time.

[juicey J.]

If Mercury is in fall in Pisces what does it mean then if that Mercury is in cazimi with the sun and both in 2nd house??

Just wondering as I have this...


Well, you say your a fighter, does uranus or mars have an angularity in your chart, or do they square, oppose or conjunct any of the luminaries, angles, or even eachother? Does pluto have any angularity or does it conjunct, oppose, or square any of your angles or luminaries, or mars? Does your chart have any amount of fire?

[Dew9]

Well, you say your a fighter, does uranus or mars have an angularity in your chart, or do they square, oppose or conjunct any of the luminaries, angles, or even eachother? Does pluto have any angularity or does it conjunct, oppose, or square any of your angles or luminaries, or mars? Does your chart have any amount of fire?


Hey Juicey J.
Yes, Mars is angular in Scorpio in 10th. Uranus is merely succeedent but in Sagittarius so giving some fire. Uranus also squares that cazimi of Mercury n Sun while Mars trines them. Yes, Uranus is also conjunct My Mars. And Mars also squares Venus and opposes Moon.

As for Pluto, there are only good aspects to it. It conjuncts MC, trines Venus and sextiles Neptune.

You are right about asking about fire- the only fire in the chart is Uranus in Sagittarius.

[Dew9]

Mercury is in fall in Pisces because mecury is all about gathering info and about the details where as Pisces is intuitive and non detailed oriented. Unless of Course Pisces Traditional ruler jupiter is Virgo then they can fall into the trap of being overly nitpicky from time to time.


Ah, in my case, Jupiter is conjunct Neptune in Capricorn. So, I guess this must be giving me some sort of hardworking and detail picking skills.

[may28gemini]

i have mercury in gemini and i do have a "breath" of knowledge but lack depth. my chart is actually ruled by mercury so you could say i have an overflow of mercury. basically, i'm good with remembering facts, i pick up information quite quickly, and i have a photographic memory and enjoy entertaining any and all ideas. i also LOVE spreading the word about silly useless facts because i enjoy informing my surroundings. but typical gemini, i always misplace my keys and can't keep a regular schedule :annoyed:

that being said, mercury energy is naturally mutable and favors learning for learning's sake and being mentally open to all ideas, especially to one's immediate environment. having it exalted in aquarius doesn't make sense to me because aquarius is fixed air which i equate to being stuffy and restricted. aquarius is not open to all, they tend be stubborn in the mindset that the world needs to change but they don't (which is typical of fixed signs anyways). i have a hard time accepting that mercury in leo is debilitating. mercury may not be well expressed through leo, but there's creativity and playfulness, which mercury likes.

although virgo tends to annoy me with their organized nitpickyness, i still think mercury is exalted in virgo because of that LOL. virgo is mutable and maintains respect to mercury's nature, but the earthy quality of virgo grounds mercury's flightiness. this combo makes learning and digesting information more organized and practical which is very necessary to survive (esp. on the mundane level).
my mother who has mercury in virgo- sharp as whip and uses it to make money on earth (she's a CPA and quite good at playing the stock market game). find people who have mercury in virgo... i'll bet you they are able to excel on the practical level but still have an openness for all kinds of information.

[byjove]

Mercury in Virgo? I've Mercury exactly conjunct Pisces Midheaven, exactly trine Cancer AC. You should see what happens when I speak in front of large audiences, especially if the occasion involves genuine listening; not debating, which I also love. The last time I spoke in a church at a wedding, people looked stunned and I wondered did I do something. I realized when people came up to me afterward to explain. The Pisces brand of magic captures attention, can allure the soul and the mind with words and feelings communicated through words.

I am awful with mathematics, at my age I still write like a child; as does my dad with the same placement. Accounting classes nearly killed me in college. A language professor told me it took her years how to figure out how my mind works, but she thinks I sit and absorb, like osmosis. How many times has that been said of Mercury in Pisces? Bang on lady. Thankfully Mercury squares Uranus which speeds up the little fella.

I've never known a debility like Mercury in Pisces to generate so much research to contradict the implication. Though astrologers frequently point out now that debility does not imply impaired intelligence etc. certainly not.

Sun exactly trine Saturn so I'm sober as a judge and the worst delusions are probably tied up in my love of film and dancing. No narcotics, thanks.

[virgo18]

In spite the dignities and debilities are only by sign, I will say that mercury in the 11th, 3rd, or 6th will be quite powerful no matter the sign. Obviously an air sign (like gemini, aquarius) and the mental earth sign(Virgo) will help a lot.

I considere that both Virgo and Aquarius will exalt Mercury. An Aquarian Mercury is a beautiful mix. It is ingenious.

[dperez3894]

This series of threads was created with the intention of discussing the influence of planetary dignity and debility in natal astrology. Each planet has been designated its own thread and a quick reference sheet of this planet's dignity and debility has been provided.

Dignity:


Mercury exerts rulership over Gemini and Virgo
Mercury is exalted in Virgo


Debility:

Mercury is in its detriment in Sagittarius and Pisces
Mercury is in its fall in Pisces


Arian Maverick

Here's mine;

Mercury in Detriment and Fall in Pisces

Mercury in the 6th House

Mercury as the point of a T-Square involving an elevated Saturn in Gemini (also the handle of a bucket chart) and Retrograde Neptune in Sagittarius.

[byjove]

Dperez ^^

I think that Saturn contact to your Pisces Mercury is good. It's difficult to be off the walls if you're always in contact with the grindstone, no? I think it's an example where a 'negative' aspect is quite useful really.

Now how do you get along with a Pisces Mercury in the 6th? We can talk about the two separately, but together...I just can't work that out. I'm a guy with Pisces Mercury sitting EXACTLY on a Pisces Midheaven. If I seek interpretations for either, they are very different. But somehow I combine them in ways I don't understand. So I'm particularly interested in your 6th Pisces Mercury! :)

[dperez3894]

Attached is my chart so you can see it for yourself.

Whenever I do have very off the wall thinking due to Mercury in Pisces, the Saturn square reels it back in and tries to turn it into something more tangible and useful. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

The Neptune square to Mercury expands the imagination.

With the Saturn square Mercury and Neptune Square Mercury working together, I always have weird things happening such as synchronicity, serendipity, law of attraction, the ability to very loosely predict things(but not accurately) before they happen, seeing patterns others don't see, precognition and possibly even mediumship according to some astrological interpretations.

In the second chart, I also included the asteroids. I have Vesta conjunct my elevated Saturn as part of the T-Square. From what I've read, Vesta conjuncting Saturn apparently gives one leadership abilities. It's also part of the handle of the bucket chart which affects all of my planets.

[byjove]

Hi all, I'm trying to figure out something...and yes it's Mercury related. Who is more strongly placed in my chart?

Mercury exactly on the MC
Mercury in Pisces
Mercury square Uranus
Mercury trine ASC

Moon ruler of ASC
Moon in Virgo
Moon in 3rd (Joy)
Moon opp Venus (9th Pisces)
Moon square Saturn (6th Sagg)

Venus in natural dignity
Venus in Pisces
Venus in 9th
Venus opp Moon and square Saturn ^^

[Olivia]

The Sun. For obvious reasons :D

[RayAustin]

Hi all, I'm trying to figure out something...and yes it's Mercury related. Who is more strongly placed in my chart?

Mercury exactly on the MC
Mercury in Pisces
Mercury square Uranus
Mercury trine ASC

Moon ruler of ASC
Moon in Virgo
Moon in 3rd (Joy)
Moon opp Venus (9th Pisces)
Moon square Saturn (6th Sagg)

Venus in natural dignity
Venus in Pisces
Venus in 9th
Venus opp Moon and square Saturn ^^

I agree with Olivia that the Sun is best placed. Here you have it in its exaltation, in a day chart, in the 10th house; present with Jupiter and in a nice trine aspect to Saturn (so he's present with his triplicity lords). That's some good stuff there--too bad you're not a Leo rising!

[byjove]

lol. Wow, well that was a clean sweep there. And I'm glad I don't have Leo Rising, I'm not fond of many particular Leo attributes...I say that, but with that prominent Sun who knows. People have said that that Sun will power me through those lunar difficulties every time. Though, conversely I recently read that less and less astrologers think that there is ever a 'positive' aspect with Saturn.

And the tug of war between a planet exactly on the MC, exactly trine the world - ASC yet in natural debility, the ruler of the ASC in joy in the 3rd opposing a Venus in in natural dignity, does any of them add assets to the Sun - any of them form a rank of second-in-command?

[RayAustin]

lol. Wow, well that was a clean sweep there. And I'm glad I don't have Leo Rising, I'm not fond of many particular Leo attributes...I say that, but with that prominent Sun who knows. People have said that that Sun will power me through those lunar difficulties every time.
Well, it's just that if he ruled your ascendant this chart IMO would describe a person quite successful in their career.


Though, conversely I recently read that less and less astrologers think that there is ever a 'positive' aspect with Saturn.I don't think so. Saturn well dignified/placed is good for longevity in the things he's connected to and can also show traits like good organizational skills/management/maturity/wisdom/stability .. etc. When well connected to Jupiter it's supposed to be auspicious for wealth. He would be better for you if he wasn't retrograde. You're a bit like me, my Jupiter is retrograde trine Saturn, you have Jupiter trine retro Saturn. Despite Jupiter and Sun being in Aries (Saturn's fall), the three together aspecting harmoniously while in triplicity is a strong combo. Perhaps for you this may describe a long successful career. In any event, trines and sextiles to Saturn are desirable when he rules a good house and is well dignified; preferably not retrograde.

[may28gemini]

Mercury is neutral and no sign exalts, therefore no sign is fallen. Mercury's dignity lies in Gemini and Virgo and detriments in Sag and Pisces- all of them mutable signs.

It's only modern astrology that feels uncomfortable that the ancients didn't assign a sign to exalt in Mercury. No, it will NEVER be Aquarius because that's fixed air and the nature of Mercury has to be free flowing and mutable.

Consider this, Aquarius is detriment and Libra is fallen in the Sun's position. The only air sign to be fine in the Sun's position is Gemini. Taurus (Venus) and Capricorn (Saturn) are respectively weakened and contentious as Sun positions. The only earth sign to be fine in the Sun's position is Virgo. Mercury is friends with the Sun, whereas Saturn/Uranus and Venus are enemies and not friends with the Sun. Mercury wouldn't make the Sun's dignity Leo fallen in his position. Although Mercury is friends with Uranus, Saturn, Venus, Mercury is literally and mythically closer to the Sun. He would rather stay out of his "friends" quarrels- be neutral because his very nature is to report the facts, not take sides (which would be subjective).
Notice that Taurus, Libra, Aqua, Cap signs all function really well in Mercury. There's mutual reception from Venus being fine with Gemini and despite Virgo being fallen in her position, I think Virgo is a better Venus position than a lot of other signs. And people think Saturn doesn't like anyone except Libra- well, Saturn likes Gemini and Virgo.

[Moog]

Many ancient authors give Virgo as the exaltation of Mercury.

Virgo is the fall sign of Venus.

[Moog]

I see the debilities of Mercury as both Jupiter's signs.

Here's a quote attributed to Plotinus, that might be illustrative of the why;

You ask, how can we know the Infinite? I answer, not by reason. It is the office of reason to distinguish and define. The Infinite, therefore, cannot be ranked among its objects. You can only apprehend the Infinite by a faculty superior to reason, by entering into a state in which you are your finite self no longer—in which the divine essence is communicated to you.

[tsmall]

Many ancient authors give Virgo as the exaltation of Mercury.

Virgo is the fall sign of Venus.

Yes, I've always read Mercury is exalted in Virgo. If I remember correctly, the reason was something to do with the triplicity rulers. But that makes Pisces both Mercury's fall and detriment.

[Moog]

Yes, I've always read Mercury is exalted in Virgo. If I remember correctly, the reason was something to do with the triplicity rulers. But that makes Pisces both Mercury's fall and detriment.

In the Indian astrology, Virgo is also the Moolatrikona sign for Mercury which means 'root triangle'

Moola Trikana of planets are –
·Mars in Aries
·Moon in Taurus
·Sun in Leo
·Mercury in Virgo
·Venus in Libra
·Jupiter in Sagittarius
·Saturn in Aquarius
Most of them are the same as exaltations.

Anyway, I don't understand this concept too well, but your triplicty rulers thing made me think of this 'root triangle' thing.

[may28gemini]

Many ancient authors give Virgo as the exaltation of Mercury.

Virgo is the fall sign of Venus.

yes, i mentioned that virgo is fallen in venus but i consider virgo venus to not be as bad as it's deemed to be.

the Greek ancients did not give virgo exaltation in mercury when virgo is already in dignity. you cannot be both dignity and exaltation just as you can't be both fallen and detriment. maybe virgo is exaltation is a vedic astrology maxim but i thought we've been talking about western astrology.

[Moog]

yes, i mentioned that virgo is fallen in venus but i consider virgo venus to not be as bad as it's deemed to be.

Why?

the Greek ancients did not give virgo exaltation in mercury when virgo is already in dignity. you cannot be both dignity and exaltation just as you can't be both fallen and detriment. maybe virgo is exaltation is a vedic astrology maxim but i thought we've been talking about western astrology.

Sorry, but I just had to check. Four of the major western astrology sources I have to hand (written by Valens, Lily, Ptolemy and Firmicus Maternus), two of which are by Greeks, all give Virgo as the exaltation of Mercury.

[may28gemini]

Yes I'm well aware that Ptolemy made Virgo exalted but you cannot be exalted in your home planet. What makes Virgo so special to be dignity and exalted? Nothing. When planets exalt are never in their own sign. 4 ancients giving Virgo exaltation doesn't make it so simply because it doesn't make sense.

Gemini and Virgo Mercuries are both the strongest form of Mercury. For Virgo to "beautifully" express Mercury's nature is a laugh! Mercury wasn't a repetitive nag, he was quick and mischievous like Gemini is.

[Moog]

Yes I'm well aware that Ptolemy made Virgo exalted but you cannot be exalted in your home planet.

I don't see why not.

What makes Virgo so special to be dignity and exalted? Nothing. When planets exalt are never in their own sign. 4 ancients giving Virgo exaltation doesn't make it so simply because it doesn't make sense.Doesn't make sense... to your sense of symmetry? What suggests to you that Mercury is not exalted in Virgo?

Gemini and Virgo Mercuries are both the strongest form of Mercury. For Virgo to "beautifully" express Mercury's nature is a laugh! Mercury wasn't a repetitive nag, he was quick and mischievous like Gemini is.Exalted is not a synonym for 'beautiful'.

I don't know what 'repetitive nag' refers to in the context of this conversation.

[may28gemini]

When a planet exalts in a sign, that's when they "beautifully " express the finer points of that planet's energy.

Virgo is not special out of all the signs to be both dignity and exaltation. Mercury is neutral and doesn't exalt in one of his own houses.

[Moog]

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

[may28gemini]

I've been maintaing my stance. I think you've been trying to nag me into agreeing with you.

[Moog]

I've been maintaing my stance. I think you've been trying to nag me into agreeing with you.

Must be my exalted Mercury.

I don't care if people agree with me or disagree with me. I just want to see the 'workings out' as it were, rather than a statement of opinion phrased as a fact.

It's very easy to mislead people. I'm sure I've done it myself, and will do so again.

The traditional materials (eastern and western) do not agree with you. I don't see any very good reason to agree with you.

You could be right.

I'll leave it at that, no nagging here.

[may28gemini]

You have it backwards - I don't agree with the 4 ancients who say Virgo is exalted. If Virgo is truly exalted, there would be a concensus on that placement but there isn't and the ancients didn't agree on it and left Mercury neutral and without.

[Moog]

You have it backwards - I don't agree with the 4 ancients who say Virgo is exalted. If Virgo is truly exalted, there would be a concensus on that placement but there isn't and the ancients didn't agree on it and left Mercury neutral and without.

Show us then. Which ancient texts or astrologers are in disagreement?

[tsmall]

If Virgo is truly exalted, there would be a concensus on that placement but there isn't and the ancients didn't agree on it and left Mercury neutral and without.

I have to agree with Moog. Mercury is exalted in Virgo. It isn't just "4 ancient sources" who say so...all western traditional astrologers say so. This actually suits the dual nature of Mercury. Virgo isn't about nagging, either, that's a stereotypical characterization of the sign of Virgo. Virgo is many things, one of them about rationalizing, discerning the details, intellectually creating order out of chaos and concrete (earth) reasoning...all of which are Mercurial traits at their best expression.

The exaltations bring out the best in a planet. Mercury in Virgo? Um, yeah...:wink:

[may28gemini]

Mercury is not exalted in Virgo. It is in dignity. The only ones who seem to be upset about Virgo not in exaltation are the people with the most naggy Mercury :Virgo.

I'm not the only in thread and board who finds it dubious that Virgo exalts in Mercury.

As a Gemini Mercury I get tired and bored of repetition. For the final time, there's no consensus. When Virgo gets its own planet and gives up dignity, we'll discuss possible change in placements. Until then, Virgo can continue to exalt in nagging, whining, and resorting to books about every little detail they want.

[tsmall]

Mercury is not exalted in Virgo. It is in dignity.

Mercury is exalted in Virgo. Google it. :love:

The only ones who seem to be upset about Virgo not in exaltation are the people with the most naggy Mercury :Virgo.

I personally have Mercury in Libra. Unless you'd like to look at a sidereal chart? In fact, I have Venus in Virgo. In fall. :joyful:



I'm not the only in thread and board who finds it dubious that Virgo exalts in Mercury.

That you find it dubious is your prerogative. That you want to rewrite over 2000 years of astrological history...you really need to have more than just an uncited opinion.

As a Gemini Mercury I get tired and bored of repetition. For the final time, there's no consensus. When Virgo gets its own planet and gives up dignity, we'll discuss possible change in placements. Until then, Virgo can continue to exalt in nagging, whining, and resorting to books about every little detail they want.

Virgo has it's own planet. It's called Mercury. You continue to say that there is no consensus. Could you please cite a source for this? You have (repetitively, I know) stated that even ancient astrologers couldn't agree that Mercury is exalted in Virgo, and yet still have not given any example of any traditional source that disputes this. Which is fine, but if you want to reach consensus on an internet forum, it is necessary to, again, cite sources. I apologize if "because I say so" just doesn't work. :pinched:

[may28gemini]

If Virgo is exalted, then why are there people who say that Aquarius exalts?

Truly, get the definition of a planet exalting in signs. It means that the sign is NOT in not in dignity but is an outside sign that is welcomed and the planet expresses its finer qualities.

Yup Virgo's ruler planet is Mercury, therefore is dignity but not exalted.

[tsmall]

If Virgo is exalted, then why are there people who say that Aquarius exalts?

What people? Again, could you please provide a source?

Truly, get the definition of a planet exalting in signs. It means that the sign is NOT in not in dignity but is an outside sign that is welcomed and the planet expresses its finer qualities.

I have the definition of a planet being exalted in signs. And thank you, I have quite a handle on it. Exaltation is in fact a form of dignity. Need a refresher? Try here...

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

Cool, Mercury is exalted in Virgo in Ptolemy's table of dignities. :whistling:


Yup Virgo's ruler planet is Mercury, therefore is dignity but not exalted.

So, we have many, many sources that say Mercury is exalted in Virgo, and so far we have only your say-so on this thread that it isn't. Again, if you would like to rewrite astrology to suit your opinion, that is fine. But you need to give more of a reason to do so than you have this far.

[Knight]

I am pisces sun and mercury is in my 1st house ,almost on cusp of the 2nd but i still consider it in 1st H. Merc is retrograde, in pisces, opposite jupiter in virgo,7th house and sesq. Pluto in9th.Merc governs my 5,6 gemini and 8th house virgo. I have saturn in 8th, opposite sun, saturn is my chart ruler as well.
I am smart,intelligent...even with thisplacement of merc... i don,t feel stupid or lently in thinking.
I started speking at 1 year fix, i am quick and very well in doing hand jobs.
It s said that merc in pisces know things without learning from someone.
I put a bulb with 2 wires in a outlet at around 1 year...and it lightens :biggrin:
I modified a recorder, tape cassette from player to recorder with no external reading or info from someone else... age 15 :rightful:
I wrote poems and a book in my early age of school... 8 years age
Currently, i writte monthly articles for a magazine and i say original stories for my 2years old daughter, every evening..m our own characters,etc...

So, i am proud of my Mercury Rx in Pisces.