My best friend

[Rubella]

I don't know what constitutes a unique map, but I think he's got one, a very special person:

Mercury retrograde in Pisces, 11th house.

Sun also in Pisces, 12th house.

T-Cross in Fixed signs,
Mars in Taurus ( ruler of Aries ascendant ), 1st house - Pluto in Scorpio ( very active in this chart ), 7th house - Venus in Aquarius, 11th house.

A kite in Water signs,
Sun in Pisces, 12th house - Moon in Cancer, 4th house - Pluto in Scorpio, 7th house. And Mars in Taurus, 1st house opposition Pluto.

Pluto and Mars come back in the T-Cross and the Kite.

What do you think of this map? anything you would like to add would be greatly appreciated :)


http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g50/Consume_Inject/Galschart.gif

[Mary]

Actually, I didn´t understand if you wanted to read the chart.

What I have to say aboy the chart map is that since your friend has a grand trine and at-cross, it´s probable that eventhough that she has the balance and harmonious ( and very strong since pluto is trining moon and sun) constitution, sympathetic energy... he may have also the necessary amount of tension to learn to deal with diffcult issues and to develop motivation in order to make things happen...

But again it depends on the person...he may use his chart for the better or for worse...

Mary

[Mary]

Just forgot.... every chart is unique ;)

[Rubella]

Yes I did want people to comment and help me read his map.

"eventhough that she has the balance and harmonious ( and very strong since pluto is trining moon and sun) constitution, sympathetic energy... he may have also the necessary amount of tension to learn to deal with diffcult issues and to develop motivation in order to make things happen..."

What part does mars take? he is present in both kite and t-cross.

[Arian Maverick]

I'm not seeing a completed Kite configuration in the chart you provided. Although there is a Grand Trine between your friend's twelfth house Sun in Pisces, fourth house Moon in Cancer, and seventh house Pluto in Scorpio, which forms a sextile aspect to his ninth house Neptune in Capricorn, Neptune does not complete the configuration through a sextile aspect with the Sun...

Arian Maverick

[Mary]

Mars it´s not part of a kite, unless you add extra orb to sun and moon. Mars actually does conform a t-cross and both a half kite with mars trine neptune and pluto sextile neptune,...

Actually, Pluto it´s the planets wich is part of the grand trine, t-cross and half-kite, and I think it´s affecting not only they way he relates to his/her partner but he may came across power struggles and issues with friends, and with other´s people beliefs.

With Sun and Moon trine pluto he may give the impression of being avery sontrg-willed person, but yet sympathetic, and he may be glad that these people (specialluy loved ones) rely on him... but sometimes he may try to imposse with the same energy he´s ideals, may be extremely possesive and dominating...

I think he may be very strong personality, character and eventhogh he may get some power struggles and heavy arguments, he is very well conformed and extremely capable of overcome problems in his life..

I think that is what it stands out of this chart,.. so far

Mary

[wilsontc]

Rubella,

In my opinion, Astrodienst is a little too generous with what it calls an aspect. Using a less generous definition for aspects, the Moon makes only one aspect (to the Sun) in the chart. Using this approach, the Moon (home, also emotions) conjunct (energy is combined with) Nadir (inner world) is almost disconnected from the rest of the chart. The result is the person works to "connect in" their Moon energy and may become deeply OVER-emotional internally in some way. The challenge is to accept that they do have emotions, even if they have a challenge in being aware of them.

Guessing,

Tim

[Rubella]

Wilsontc, Arian Maverick and Mary,

Thank you for your thoughts!

Is there a way I can choose a different set of degrees for the orbs in Astrodienst? what is the orb aspect that you normally use and believe to be the most accurate one?

He's an artist, a very good one, do you see that in his map? how can you distinguish artistic abilities in one's map?

Also,
What would you say about his thinking style? retro mercury and lots of water...

[Arian Maverick]

Is there a way I can choose a different set of degrees for the orbs in Astrodienst?

There is a way, but since it goes by percentage of increase/decrease it is somewhat difficult to use.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/4803/astrodienstdiagram9zw.png (http://imageshack.us)

Arian Maverick

[wilsontc]

Rubella,

Orbs (how close two planets/points have to be to each other in order to be aspecting each other) is a subject of much disagreement among astrologers. Personally, for trines or sextiles I use:
With Sun or Moon - 7 degree orb
Without Sun or Moon - 5 degree orb

There is only one online astrology charting program I know of that allows you to set your own orbs and that one is...on Astrologyweekly! :) :
http://mychart.astrologyweekly.com/

I think of art energies as being an ability to balance things out and see the inter-relationship of objects...an awareness of the beauty of things...and I associate this with Libra/Venus/7th house. For artistry I think about the ability to take all the parts of the painting and blend them into a complete whole, so that the painter's viewpoint draws us into their world. This type of "dissolving" effect on us which great artistry can achieve, I associate with Pisces/Neptune/12th house.

Your friend has a T-square (strong energy) focused on Venus (art), which could give him an impulse to do art. And, they have Neptune (artistry) conjunct (energy is combined with) Midheaven (outer world), which could give them some artistic sense of the "one-ness" of things in the world. They also have their North node (future goals) focused in the 12th house (artistry), indicating that they are focused on devleoping and building their artistry in some way.

Looking at Pisces (artistry) modifying Mercury (thinking/daily work) in a fate degree (strong energy - planets at 29 or 0 degrees are in a "fate degree"), I notice that it is UNaspected, since it no aspects (using my orbs) to the planets in the chart. This would indicate someone who can not "connect in" with their strong sense of artistic, daily communication and so OVERcommunicates their artistic ideas somehow. This could indicate that being artistic and communicating that artisticness is VERY important to this person.

Guessing,

Tim

[devalight]

I have enjoyed looking at this chart. The question is regarding what indications for creativity there are and the state of the mind of the person.

I see Pisces, Leo and Libra as creative signs. The indications of creativity here are:

1. Sun in Pisces trine Moon in Cancer. Moon in Cancer is a torrent of emotion, also lends a lot of creative sensibility. In this case being in the 4th house, it would not be expressed so much outwardly, but--

Leo on the 5th house (its own house) shows creativity expressed. With Leo's ruler, the Sun, in Pisces, I would expect to see some kind of creative activity.

Planetary influences I would consider to lend creativity- Neptune and Venus.

Venus does not seem to me to be operating too well for expression of creativity in this chart configuration, but Neptune is powerfully placed since it is at an angle (the Midheaven), and Mercury in Pisces sextile Uranus shows potential for creative or unconventional, and possibly unrealistic thinking. It is probably a good thing that Neptune is in Capricorn, therefore reducing the likelihood of the fogged or unrealistic thinking.

Gemini on the 3rd house. Probably the person finds it easy to communicate his thoughts.

Looking at the chart, I'll bet he is a good friend to you.

Devalight

[Mary]

I agree with you,..

My boyfriend also has a water grand trine between mercury in pisces in the 11th, moon in cancer in the 3rd and saturn in scorpio in the 8th, he is very sensitive and very talented,.. he has got also a venus,mars, pallas conjucntion in the 12th conjucnt ascendant. His 5th cusp is also leo, his sun is in pisces, too and it´s sextile neptune.

Mary

[Lunar Pisces]

Devalight - not to confuse but I would consider that mars part of a kite with Pluto as the apex. I haven't a clue what Mary's talking about as a "half kite" - that would just be a triangle with no particular characteristic that would make it any more kite-like than another triangle.

This is why I would sya there's a kite: in terms of specific aspects, orbs are very important. However, when it comes to an aspect configuration, many astrologer have noticed that orbs are less significant, because configuration thrive more on the overall combination of relationships within the configuration rather than being tightly orbs. Since there's a number of aspects, there's more leeway with orbs, since one or two slightly out-of-orb aspects are conpensated by other aspects and the polar, modal or elemental relationship among the bodies. In fact, it's be observed that even configuration that are not tightly orbed can be just as powerful as ones that are.

I suspect that your opinion of him is greatly influenced by your synastry with him. It does appear that he's not just an artistic person, but most likely a difficult person in some ways as well. Others may find him taxing or needy, perhaps selfish and a bit of a bully. The prominance of that 1H Mars-7H Pluto opposition when be hard on his relationships. This is a power aspect, and it on the 1H-7H axis, this will likely turn many of his relationships into power plays and struggles.

The personal power he derives from that aspect makes him an egocentric person by nature, and that power fuels two configurations, for better or worse. With a water grand trine as the basis of this kite, he's likely defensive and reluctant to change his emotional habits. It's probably very easy for him to alienate others, and he may find there are so people he simply cannot get along with. Such strong wateriness, though makes, him have deep person needs that can only be fulfilled through realtionships, so he'll need to work out some balance here between though needs and his own personal power.

With the T-square, the power of the Mars-Pluto aspect is expressed through a Venus air singleton in AquaThis probably has as much to do with his being an artist as his Sun sign, and since that singleton is in the 11th, while his Sun is in the 12th, it's a more excessive avenue to express his Mars-Pluto energy. Artistic expression becomes a way of expressing his personal power through Venus, and also, because Venus is in the 11th house, it's a way of him validating himself within society. Art gives him a purpose in the world.

While that all sounds lovely, there's a dark side to that as well. Given the the egocentric qualities of that Mars-Pluto opposition, and the willfulness and singlemindedness of Aqua, there's a chance here that he may think that he's way is the only way. He may be too inclined to force his own agenda onto others, and especially through his art. Aqua is paradoxical - it's humanitarian and conscientious, but it hates compromise. Aqua also hyperrationalizes things, and can rationalize some higher moral imperative for doing something, when in fact it's really about personal motives (and this is coming form an Aqua Mars, too ;).

I don't mean to sound too harsh. I actually have a friend, who's a Pisces-Aqua-Leo who has a chart that's very, very similar to this. He even has an Aries Mars in an angular house too. He too is an amazingly artistic person, but he's also not very easy to get along with at times. Some people adore him - he's very charismatic (I suspect your friend is too). Others think he's a nutjob with a misplaced sense of entitlement. I can understand both prespectives myself, and although we're good, long-time close friends, I too at times, find him unbeleiveably self-absorbed and in need a good reality check.

[devalight]

Lunar-Pisces, I did not address the Mars/ Pluto opposition or the kite configuration. I was only addressing what factors were contributing to the creativity question and the issue of the mental life.

You may be right that he is hard to get along with, since I don't know this individual personally. I just don't see it as much in the overall chart as you seem to.

I am not sure how someone can actually "force his own agenda" onto others through their art. Art that tries to force itself on anyone is fails as art.
I suppose we may disagree, but that's OK.

Devalight

[23]

Sorry to repeat anyone, I haven't closely read other people's posts but I was struck by the moon in cancer in the 4th, must be a very emotional person. A very powerful and maybe artistic and shrewd person too?

Otherwise t-square between mars, pluto and venus as the vertex. Must have some sort of frustration/conflict when he gets in a relationship, maybe he likes to get into relationships with friends wrongly or confuses friendship with love?? Requires to balance his personal self and relationships. Maybe firey and independent and clashes with controlling partners?

And grand trine between between sun, pluto and moon probably smooths over this t-square.

...and yes, it is an interesting chart.

[Mary]

Lunar Pisces,

Actually I remember it as the "half kite", also known as the "wedge" is formed by a planet that is aspecting an opposition with one sextile with an extreme of the opposition and with a trine to the other extreme...The explanation of why it is called half kite is beacuse if you add a similar configuration in the other side of the chart like a mirror, you´ll have a kite. And if you do the same but mirroring the wedge or half- kite upsidedown you have a mystic rectangles...

Here´s the images I completed in order to understand better:

http://www.publicupload.com/files/wedge-kite-mysticrect.jpg (http://www.publicupload.com)

And here´s the link for info about this an another configurations:

http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/mysticrectangle_wedge.shtml

If you check in the best friend´s chart, you´ll se that neptune is sextile pluto and trine mars...and venus it´s squaring both mars and pluto, the wedge acts as relieving some of the tension that exists in the t-cross.


Mary

[Rubella]

Yay, a debate!

wilsontc,

"This would indicate someone who can not "connect in" with their strong sense of artistic, daily communication and so OVERcommunicates their artistic ideas somehow. This could indicate that being artistic and communicating that artisticness is VERY important to this person."

I agree with you, I think art is very important to him, I think it's a great way for him to communicate deeper aspects of himself he cannot show verbally.

So you believe his mercury is unaspected? does it weaken the mercurial effect, or empowers it? what do you think?

devalight,

You're right, the emotions are definitely inward. As to the foggy thinking, I have to say I don't see it. He's very rational and logical, perhaps the fogginess is emotional fogginess?

Why do you think he'll be a good friend to me? he is, I'm just wondering :)

Lunar Pisces,

"I suspect that your opinion of him is greatly influenced by your synastry with him. It does appear that he's not just an artistic person, but most likely a difficult person in some ways as well. Others may find him taxing or needy, perhaps selfish and a bit of a bully. The prominence of that 1H Mars-7H Pluto opposition when be hard on his relationships. This is a power aspect, and it on the 1H-7H axis, this will likely turn many of his relationships into power plays and struggles. "

My synastry with him is of great interest to me, since we have North Node conjunction, and I understood that indicates people who have incarnated together. If you feel like it, I'll add my own chart and tell me what you think! :)

Yes, he is a difficult person. He enjoys a good battle, and winning! I think his relationships are a great transformable power to him,

"The personal power he derives from that aspect makes him an egocentric person by nature, and that power fuels two configurations, for better or worse. With a water grand trine as the basis of this kite, he's likely defensive and reluctant to change his emotional habits. It's probably very easy for him to alienate others, and he may find there are so people he simply cannot get along with. Such strong wateriness, though makes, him have deep person needs that can only be fulfilled through relationships, so he'll need to work out some balance here between though needs and his own personal power."

You hit it right on the mark there, Lunar Pisces. I think this is one of his greatest struggles.

"because Venus is in the 11th house, it's a way of him validating himself within society. Art gives him a purpose in the world."

Again, right on the money :)

"While that all sounds lovely, there's a dark side to that as well. Given the the egocentric qualities of that Mars-Pluto opposition, and the willfulness and singlemindedness of Aqua, there's a chance here that he may think that he's way is the only way. He may be too inclined to force his own agenda onto others, and especially through his art. Aqua is paradoxical - it's humanitarian and conscientious, but it hates compromise. Aqua also hyperrationalizes things, and can rationalize some higher moral imperative for doing something, when in fact it's really about personal motives (and this is coming form an Aqua Mars, too .

I don't mean to sound too harsh. I actually have a friend, who's a Pisces-Aqua-Leo who has a chart that's very, very similar to this. He even has an Aries Mars in an angular house too. He too is an amazingly artistic person, but he's also not very easy to get along with at times. Some people adore him - he's very charismatic (I suspect your friend is too). Others think he's a nutjob with a misplaced sense of entitlement. I can understand both perspectives myself, and although we're good, long-time close friends, I too at times, find him unbelievably self-absorbed and in need a good reality check."

He is indeed very attached to his point of view and will fight to the death for it. He does have charisma, although I'm not sure he notices it.

I liked your reading, I thought it was very good.

My chart, for a synastry:

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g50/Consume_Inject/1492150215081492151315001497.gif

I fear my map pales compared to his, not crazy about mine at all.

23,

"Sorry to repeat anyone, I haven't closely read other people's posts but I was struck by the moon in cancer in the 4th, must be a very emotional person. A very powerful and maybe artistic and shrewd person too?

Otherwise t-square between mars, pluto and venus as the vertex. Must have some sort of frustration/conflict when he gets in a relationship, maybe he likes to get into relationships with friends wrongly or confuses friendship with love?? Requires to balance his personal self and relationships. Maybe firey and independent and clashes with controlling partners?

And grand trine between between sun, pluto and moon probably smooth's over this t-square.

...and yes, it is an interesting chart."

I think he'd be happy to know you found it interesting. He is very emotional, you can see whatever he is feeling at any given time on his face, especially through the eyes ( VERY piscine ), but his feelings are not expressed, he likes to keep them inside, doesn't share much, I had to "teach" him to tell me everything :)

I'd definitely say he's shrewd, good in take on the relationship behavior. I feel the same as you.

Mary,

Thanks for clearing up the configuration for me. You said your boyfriend has similar characteristics to my friend's chart, is he a hard person in relationships?


Thank you for sharing, awaiting your replies :)

[Mary]

Rubella,

My boyfriend is the sweetest person I have ever met. He can be dominating, when he thinks I´m not acting like he thinks I should do,... but we talk a lot about it and he it´s sensible enough to notice that he cannot control over other´s life. He has been very supportative with my hard stuff, I think he´s is well conformed psycologically, he´s younger than me but he´s is more secure, but somtimes he needs emotional support also, that´s when I show up!


Mary

[wilsontc]

Rubella,

You asked:
So you believe his mercury is unaspected? does it weaken the mercurial effect, or empowers it? what do you think?

I do believe his Mercury is unaspected and I believe it causes him to emphasize Mercurial qualities more in his life. It also could cause him to be uncertain of Mercurial qualities in his life and so overdo his Mercury energy. While this can lead to him having VERY strong Mercury (thinking/daily work) energy, it could also lead to "burn out" if he pushes and pushes his Mercury energy to extremes. If he "burns out" then his Mercury energy will suddenly become very weak, but, if he manages to use his Mercury energies in a steady, rational way he can continue to maintain his high, "empowered" level of using Mercury.

I put "empowered" in quotes, because I think of "power" as a Pluto thing, not a Mercury thing.

Debating,

Tim

[devalight]

Rubella,

I thought that fogginess was possible given the position of Mercury in Pisces, but I also said that I thought it was balanced out by the position of Neptune. I saw it as only a possiblity. No, I don't think there is fogginess in the emotional realm at all. There, I believe he is very tuned in.

Maybe his Mercury has some Aquarius infuence, being so close. Anyone else see this?

Let's face it, most artistic people can be difficult to get along with from time to time. They see things and make connections in the world that others do not.

It is kind of strange, what I said about him being a good friend to you. There is no particular reason I wrote that. It was just my impression from looking at the overall chart. Since I am a Cancer sun with a Mercury/Uranus conjunction in the 11th house, I just trust my instincts or these flashes that come to me.

Devalight