Secondary Progressions inaccurate?

[HeyPlayGirl]

hi guys :wink:

okay i never believe in anything unless i have SOLID PROOF. i am the biggest skeptic there is and astrology has proven to me many times how accurate it can be. transitions have proven themselves as well as solar arcs. it's funny because i know that you have to make things happen in your life but i swear with solar arcs and transitions events just happened to drop in my lap without me even trying! as if by fate. for example my mother's car accident was predicted by transits, me moving out on my own, and my frist real love was predicted by solar arcs, etc.

but one thing that never seems accurate is secondary progressions. so i can't believe in something that doesn't work....am i alone with this? or are there astrologers that find them unreliable as well?
i'm mainly talking about progressed planets in aspect to other progressed planets..progressed planets to natal i need to test out more to find out the validity.
any other opinions would be appreciated!

[starlink]

Hi Joseph, you wrote:


Therefore, depending on what synodic Moon-Saturn phase you were born in,


I would like to know how we can figure this out. Probably needs a computer programm like the one's you mentioned?. Lets say the Progr.Moon has left the conjunction with the Sun and arrives at the sextile point with the Sun. Which synodic Moon-Saturn phase would that be? Are there actually different names for these phases, like in natal astrology: Balsamic Moon, Gibbous Moon type, dissiminating type, last quarter type etc.? Or, do you just look where the Progr. Moon is situated in relation to the transiting Saturn (in the progressed chart I presume?).

Intrigued,
Starlink

[Lost_spirit]

Hello!
Progressions are mostly interpreted as inner changes and not events.Maybe that's why you don't find them accurate.I interpret them in aspects to my natal chart only and not by themselves.I'm not saying this is the right way to do it,but doing it like this gives me very accurate results about how I feel and what I have become.And yes,the moon is very important in the progressed chart,so check for it's position.

[astrologer50]

Hello!
Progressions are mostly interpreted as inner changes and not events.Maybe that's why you don't find them accurate.I interpret them in aspects to my natal chart only and not by themselves.I'm not saying this is the right way to do it,but doing it like this gives me very accurate results about how I feel and what I have become.And yes,the moon is very important in the progressed chart,so check for it's position.

I think astro.com is extremely accurate and reliable for secondary progressions or anything :smile:

If you want to research more into Secondary progressions try here
http://cafeastrology.com/secondaryprogressions.html (http://cafeastrology.com/secondaryprogressions.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression)
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/progressions.html (http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/progressions.html)
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=67 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=67)



Heyplaygir, We are all visual people here and need to 'SEE'charts, can you post natal, progressed and transit chart??:cool:

[Astro-Intuitive]

Hi HeyPlayGirl,

Secondary or Naibod, day-for-a-year progressions (Right Ascension, geocentric corrections to latitude) are probably the most accurate - and strongest - of all in forecasts. The reason why they are so little used, and why success rates are so low, is because most horoscopes are incorrect to begin with. As I stated, quite briefly, in some of my posts, every birth time must be tested and verified for totaly functionality. That means the the Ascendant (or personality), signs on house cusps, planets in houses (or on angles), the Midheaven and secondary progressions/forecasts much match the individual, his or her life and nature of events transpired exactly and without exception.

The reason why this is necessary is because the "first-breath" theory - or the notion that the physical birth time is synonymous with the time the soul selects its horoscope - is false - no matter how long it has prevailed throughout the 20th Century and still to this day. A most simple example would be the case of identical twins, whose physical birth times have them born approximately 20 minutes apart - with different Ascendant signs; or fraternal twins, whose physical birth times have them born approximately 5 minutes apart - with the same Ascendant signs. Then there is the issue of cesarean births. But, whatever the case, the physical birth is a stop-and-start process and there is no exact standard or way to measure it. By what standard/basis should the horsocope be deemed valid? When an infants head comes out of the uterus? When the first breath is taken? When the umbilical cord is cut?

This is not to say the physical birth time is not valuable or necessary, for it is a starting point - to start moving back toward the real birth time, which is selected just prior to physical birth entry (this being the ending point of the birth process), during labor (which can be anywhere from 5 minutes earlier to 5 hours back). Yes, you read that correctly! That is an unequivocal statement: the soul views and selects its horoscope just prior to - not during - physical birth entry. And in order to arrive at that time, it must either be calculated or rectified. But, I won't get into that right now (unless you're interested in hearing more).

The first thing you'll need to start with is your pesonality. Does the one shown according to your physical birth time reflect the one actually expressed by you in life. If it does, then you would have to start looking at an earlier degree of that sign; if it doesn't, then one of the two preceding signs would reflect it. This a major fundamental of astrological science - whether well known or not. This is not all, but it is the first step. If you'd like, I'll tell you more about it on this post. Also, if you'd like, I'll make preparations to derive your accurate horoscope and then post the results here for you to see, study, examine and test yourself. This way, you won't have to take my word for it but examine the evidence yourself.

There is a sophisticated philosophy and science to this; and, however little known it may be, it is true.

Let me know.

Best,

[astrologer50]

Hi HeyPlayGirl,

Secondary or Naibod, day-for-a-year progressions (Right Ascension, geocentric corrections to latitude) are probably the most accurate - and strongest - of all in forecasts. The reason why they are so little used, and why success rates are so low, is because most horoscopes are incorrect to begin with. As I stated, quite briefly, in some of my posts, every birth time must be tested and verified for totaly functionality. That means the the Ascendant (or personality), signs on house cusps, planets in houses (or on angles), the Midheaven and secondary progressions/forecasts much match the individual, his or her life and nature of events transpired exactly and without exception. and of course which house system you use, like Equal house or Placidus. This takes an awful lot of hard work, research and study

The reason why this is necessary is because the "first-breath" theory - or the notion that the physical birth time is synonymous with the time the soul selects its horoscope - is false - no matter how long it has prevailed throughout the 20th Century and still to this day. A most simple example would be the case of identical twins, whose physical birth times have them born approximately 20 minutes apart - with different Ascendant signs; or fraternal twins, whose physical birth times have them born approximately 5 minutes apart - with the same Ascendant signs. Then there is the issue of cesarean births. But, whatever the case, the physical birth is a stop-and-start process and there is no exact standard or way to measure it. By what standard/basis should the horsocope be deemed valid? When an infants head comes out of the uterus? When the first breath is taken? When the umbilical cord is cut? Well I feel it's pretty standard that the first breath in this world is when a person is born. Prob is as usual there is usually no one there with a stop watch to record this. But we are only talks seconds or minutes, cos in UK twins time is recorded or if you were born in Scotland the time is put on birth certificate. Other than that mothers are generally bit out, cos everyone has this same tendency to 'round things up' to the o'clock, half past, quarter to and past the hour.

This is not to say the physical birth time is not valuable or necessary, for it is a starting point - to start moving back toward the real birth time, which is selected just prior to physical birth entry (this being the ending point of the birth process), during labor (which can be anywhere from 5 minutes earlier to 5 hours back). Yes, you read that correctly! That is an unequivocal statement: the soul views and selects its horoscope just prior to - not during - physical birth entry. And in order to arrive at that time, it must either be calculated or rectified. But, I won't get into that right now (unless you're interested in hearing more).

The first thing you'll need to start with is your pesonality. Does the one shown according to your physical birth time reflect the one actually expressed by you in life. If it does, then you would have to start looking at an earlier degree of that sign; if it doesn't, then one of the two preceding signs would reflect it. This a major fundamental of astrological science - whether well known or not. This is not all, but it is the first step. If you'd like, I'll tell you more about it on this post. Also, if you'd like, I'll make preparations to derive your accurate horoscope and then post the results here for you to see, study, examine and test yourself. This way, you won't have to take my word for it but examine the evidence yourself. You say to check all these things but offer no advice to members as to how you go about things! personally, I recommend solar arcs and they have proved incredibly successful

There is a sophisticated philosophy and science to this; and, however little known it may be, it is true.

Let me know.

Best,

the member here was not particularly asking about rectification but the art and how/why progressed charts work. :whistling:

Your natal chart is like a photograph as unique as your fingerprint, BUT the 10planets in the sky have not stayed where they were in your natal chart, they have all moved. Predictive astrology is mostly maths where those 10planets are now and the mathematical aspects they make to your natal charts ie: 180'=opposition, 90'=square, 60'=sextile and 120'=trine.

So your personality, grows, develops, changes, matures as we get older, this is reflected by your sun sign changing from it's natal position to the next sign along, so does your Asc and MC sign change. In fact from sun to mars espec are important, as the outer planets really don't move much, using a 'day for a year' secondary progressions.

If you want to research more into Secondary progressions try here
http://cafeastrology.com/secondaryprogressions.html (http://cafeastrology.com/secondaryprogressions.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression)
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/progressions.html (http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/progressions.html)
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=67 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=67)

Sometimes the language of astrology doesn't mean outer events but 'inner' events, awareness and arh ha moments in our evolution. The only planets worth looking at for progressions are sun through to mars and then I only bother with hard aspects ie: conj, squares, oppositions.

[astrologer50]

okay i never believe in anything unless i have SOLID PROOF. i am the biggest skeptic there is and astrology has proven to me many times how accurate it can be. transitions have proven themselves as well as solar arcs. it's funny because i know that you have to make things happen in your life but i swear with solar arcs and transitions events just happened to drop in my lap without me even trying! as if by fate. for example my mother's car accident was predicted by transits, me moving out on my own, and my frist real love was predicted by solar arcs, etc.

With hindsight most things can be 'seen' after an event, but to predict an accident before is riske, unless you are asking a 'horary question'
When you say 'transitions' I am assuming you mean 'transits' sometimes major transits can suggest certain things and they don't happen as bad or spot on, but you have to remember the planet being aspected may have nothing but lovely trines or sextiles. It's usually when the natal planet is already challenged with aspects that another 'hit' tends to make matters worse or problematic.

[Astro-Intuitive]

Hi astrologer50.

and of course which house system you use, like Equal house or Placidus. This takes an awful lot of hard work, research and study


This is one of the problems in astrology that raises serious questions as to its authenticity and discipline as a science. The use of so many different house systems invariably leads to different results, and reasons given for their use are more in the nature of personal preferences - akin to why one likes blue while the other likes yellow - than by any objective or rational proofs.

I use Placidus. For a scientific explanation of its proof as the only valid system for Tropical Astrology, I recommend reading Chapter 12 of the following book:

http://www.paraview.com/willner/index.htm

I was fortunate to have known this man before he passed away. His work is based upon 50 years of empirical research. I have been stuying, testing, refining and reapplying these techniques for the past 7 years and it still never ceases to amaze how much one can learn from a 100% functional horoscope - where every significant event of one's life (via Secondary Progressions) is accompanied by synonymous astrological signitures within 4 minutes of arc or less (that 00* 04'). That includes the all-important (but so often missed) aspects to and from the natal and progressed ASC and MC (by longitude and declination) and inner house cusps.

To briefly cap on the validity of the Placidus house system - which is the most difficult - he tested all house systems to match intercepted house pairs of individuals with different occupations (this presumes that the horoscopes have been verified). The Placidus house system was the only one that obtained a Chi Square of zero every time those intercepted house were present (that means 100 out of 100 matched) while in all other house systems the results varied considerably.

For example, when the 2nd/8th houses intercepted were present in the Placidus house system, they always matched the professions of economists, stock brokers, lawyers for wills and trusts, insurance people, financial planners or people will managed the resources, talents or assets of others while in Koch and in other houses system, they varied from singers to writers to psychologist.

When the 3rd/9th houses intercepted were present in the Placidus house system, they always matched the professions of communicators, teachers, performers, writers, pilots, those in transportation, lawmakers, singers, researchers, actors, lawyers, etc. while in Koch and other house systems, the occupations ranged from company owner to daycare provider, to communicator to daycare provider - many variable within each one.

When the 1st/7th houses intercepted were present in the Placidus house system, they always matched the professions of dancers, psychologists, public relations people, talk show hosts, representatives of companies, leaders of movements, advocates for other people, teamplayers, marriage counselors, ambassadors, etc. These are the "people" persons who constanly and directly have their body into the swing of things. While the same results for other house systems had various ratios.

When the 4th/10th houses intercepted were present in the Placidus house system, they always matched the professions of leaders of companies, CEOs, leaders of groups, managers, board of directors, army general, prime ministers. For 5th/11th houses Placidus - comedians, entertainers, owners of nurseries, sexualists, hobbyists, project managers, speculators, promoters, salespeople, charming hosts. For 6th/12th Placidus - service organizations, donators of wealth and benefactors, senators, governors, judges, federal and state employees, doctors and nurses, household employees, workaholitics, pionner achievers and all those who work for the benefit or service to humanity.

You say to check all these things but offer no advice to members as to how you go about things! personally, I recommend solar arcs and they have proved incredibly successful

The reason why I did not go into it, was because for the first part: I am aware that the idea might be relatively new or unfamiliar and did not want to bombard HeyPlayGirl with so much new information; and for the second part: I would not be able to explain it all in one posting - let alone without illustrations, which I was willing to provide in her completed horoscope and then going backwards - with a tangible, verified chart - to show the steps taken leading up to that point.

That was one of the reasons why I said to her:

And in order to arrive at that time, it must either be calculated or rectified. But, I won't get into that right now (unless you're interested in hearing more).

And it's actually a precise calculation, not rectification, via the progam INCARN which I purchased before he died ($600) that generates the potential moments of incarnation for a soul born at any specific location on the face of the earth within a 5-hour time frame from the reported physical birth time. Of the potential horoscopes generated ONE and ONLY ONE is 100% functional. To find the precise horoscope, several may need to be tested, via progressions (which is a lot different from having to start from scratch).

But many can be eliminated based on physical appearance alone (especially the head) and behavior of the personaltiy. Every rising sign has a distintive trait. The only difficulty might be if a person's birth time is unknown, because opposite signs mirror one another. But even then, many signs can be eliminated. For example, Gemini and Sag rising are generally the tallest signs and have the most elongated heads - that is, the top to bottom is longer than average. Think of Cher, Arnold Swarzeneger, Ben Affleck, Jerry Lewis (especially his younger photos). They all have Gemini rising. Sag rising has the most elongated head of all and can sometimes be backslopping. Think of John Kerry, Elvis Presly, Princess Diana, Leslie Nelson, Jamie Lee Curtis. They all have Sag. rising. Scorpio has the rectangular face with sometime the wider jowls, acquiline nose, piercing or penetrating eyes and a level of personal magnetism. Think of Bette Davis, Ayn Rand, Elijah Wood, Sam Nunn, Chris Evert, Marlon Brando. They all have Scorpio rising. Capricorn has the ovate to ovate-rectangular shape race - with little earlobes or those that stick out prominently from the sides of the head. Think of president Obama, Will Smith, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Shelly Duvall, Roberto Benigni, Diahann Carroll. They have Carpricorn. Virgo has the triangular, V-shaped head with a downpointed noise and narrow chin. Think of Arthur Ashe, Leonardo DiCaprio, Alizee, David Bowie, Barry Gibbs, Shirley Maclaine and Julie Andrews. They have Virgo rising.

These are just some of the example a precise astrology is capable of demonstrating.

Best,

[astrologer50]

astro-I,
Because spiritual birth times, which are essential to producing an accurate horoscope according to Edgar Cayce, occur up to four-and-a-half hours before physical birth. That difference leaves aspects between planets about the same, but shifts all house cusps backward by up to one or two signs. Compared with most of today's faulty horoscopes, these "perfect horoscopes" match personas with awesome precision and provide greatly enhanced forecasting capabilities. This revolutionary book on astrology shows you how to (1) arrive at spiritual birth times, (2) apply two other fundamentals of astrology currently omitted from most horoscopes, and (3) verify your now totally functional horoscope

Good luck being the man's spiritual publicist :whistling:

And it's actually a precise calculation, not rectification, via the progam INCARN which I purchased before he died ($600) that generates the potential moments of incarnation for a soul born at any specific location on the face of the earth within a 5-hour time frame from the reported physical birth time. Of the potential horoscopes generated ONE and ONLY ONE is 100% functional. To find the precise horoscope, several may need to be tested, via progressions (which is a lot different from having to start from scratch).

Well perhaps you can post more info on our 'Recommendations Forum'?
As far as psychical appearance goes, that again is rather hard, cos if people have any planets conj Asc ie: moon that will change the whole appearance :whistling:


This is one of the problems in astrology that raises serious questions as to its authenticity and discipline as a science. The use of so many different house systems invariably leads to different results, and reasons given for their use are more in the nature of personal preferences - akin to why one likes blue while the other likes yellow - than by any objective or rational proofs.

there are ALL sorts of astrologers here on AW, modern & traditional, various house systems etc and espousing that yours is the only correct system will lead yourself wide open to criticism here, especially to the Traditionalist and Whole house people :rightful:

Besides which you are going way off topic for this member who was simply asking about the validity of secondary progressions and who did not request a lecture on 'intercepted/placidus' !

[starlink]

will not defend or attack your beliefs cos you risk being censured and your posts edited or deleted --- so be warned :unsure:


What you mean is that you yourself would risk being censured and your post edited or deleted if you attack Astro-intuitive's beliefs? so why the warning? I dont think it is appropriate of you to warn another member. The Moderators can do that should it be obvious that someone's post is off topic (I dont think it is really off topic here as you claimed) or disruptive. This is certainly not the case here.


there are ALL sorts of astrologers here on AW, modern & traditional, various house systems etc and espousing that yours is the only correct system will lead yourself wide open to criticism here, especially to the Traditionalist and Whole house people :rightful:

It is entirely up to Astro-Intuitive how he will handle eventual criticism on his post. Any criticism is OK, as long as it remains civilized. This Forum invites debates on anything , just be nice to one another.

I am actually quite happy to see that someone, even if he is not alive anymore, has done some research on this and believes that Placidus is accurate. So Astro-Intuitive swears by this house system and he can do that. He is not telling us that we must use Placidus. He just states why he thinks that this system is the right one (for him anyways).

Personally, as I always have said, I strongly believe that whichever system we use, we could basically come to the same interpretation, when using our intuition. (contrary to what Astro-Intuitive says) .

Like with a cristal ball, by looking into it, the intuition of the person is being enhanced and mental pictures become clear. So also with astrology. We look at the chart and immediately it will give us a certain feeling, at least it does for me. Maybe I am wrong in assuming this, but it could be possible. I sometimes dont even know where I get my ideas from. I say something and then someone asks me: yes, you are right, where did you see this in my chart? And I have to look for it, because I did not derive that from a specific aspect at that very moment when I got that feeling, but I can then, afterwards find an aspect which coincides with what I said.

Astro-Intuitive, you said:


This is one of the problems in astrology that raises serious questions as to its authenticity and discipline as a science. The use of so many different house systems invariably leads to different results, and reasons given for their use are more in the nature of personal preferences - akin to why one likes blue while the other likes yellow - than by any objective or rational proofs.


Now that is a very difficult one of course because astrology is, unfortunately for us, sometimes hard to prove or be objective about. Especially when we get into stars, points and other flying objects in space. It is OK if astrologers use different house systems, like you said, one likes blue, the other yellow. I dont have a problem with that. You should not either. Just be happy that you seem to have found the programm which is apparently accurate in calculating the "right" chart and telling us about it.

Astrologer50 is right," why not post it in our "recommendations board. Others (with money I assume) could benefit from it.


Because spiritual birth times, which are essential to producing an accurate horoscope according to Edgar Cayce, occur up to four-and-a-half hours before physical birth. That difference leaves aspects between planets about the same, but shifts all house cusps backward by up to one or two signs. Compared with most of today's faulty horoscopes, these "perfect horoscopes" match personas with awesome precision and provide greatly enhanced forecasting capabilities. This revolutionary book on astrology shows you how to (1) arrive at spiritual birth times, (2) apply two other fundamentals of astrology currently omitted from most horoscopes, and (3) verify your now totally functional horoscope.


Spiritual birth times is a subject which is probably a bit too advanced for most beginning astrologers here I'm afraid, but thank you for giving us your view on this. However, please do not expect everybody to go along with it or understand it all:) .

I hope everything is understood now.

lets move on! Starlink

[astrologer50]

May I suggest you read the 'welcome sticky' at the top of this forum? It has some great explanations, links etc and also has links to forum rules & regs...At the top of every forum there are lots of ‘stickys’ which explain matters in that forum, along with guidelines, tips and forum rules
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1117

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=689

[EJ53]

Spiritual birth times is a subject which is probably a bit too advanced for most......

It might be a valid topic for the Education Board, though......Or perhaps on a thread of it's own.

[starlink]

It might be a valid topic for the Education Board


EJ, I am not so sure about this. After all, this ED board is connected to our Greenhorn Lounge where many newcomers go in order to learn the basics. Spiritual birth times is hardly basic astrology but something you would go into much later in your studies. A thread on it's own, just to mention this and explain it, is another story. Still, it is probably welcomed by those who are attuned strongly to the spiritual world, like Edgar Cayce was and how many of us are that? I might be mistaken though, just letting you know what I think about it.

Star.

[Astro-Intuitive]

In response to link that you posted up as a quote and that describes excerpts from the book, you said:

Good luck being the man's spiritual publicist :whistling:

I'm not sure what you mean - or where you're getting at - but if your intent is to be sarcastic, perhaps you should reread our posts. If you would have taken into context what I said...

"I use Placidus. For a scientific explanation of its proof as the only valid system for Tropical Astrology, I recommend reading Chapter 12 of the following book:

to your reply of...

"and of course which house system you use, like Equal house or Placidus. This takes an awful lot of hard work, research and study" (the implication of which suggests that one has to take into consideration the house system in conjuction with the progression method before deeming same correct)

you would have well understood and not made that comment!

Also:

As far as psychical appearance goes, that again is rather hard, cos if people have any planets conj Asc ie: moon that will change the whole appearance :whistling:

Not enough to modify - only add to - the basic characteristics of the ASC.


there are ALL sorts of astrologers here on AW, modern & traditional, various house systems etc and espousing that yours is the only correct system will lead yourself wide open to criticism here, especially to the Traditionalist and Whole house people :rightful:

Reread what I wrote. I never espoused or said that it was my or John's system; what I said was that it was tested and found to be valid over others. I then provided an explanation of why. Furthermore, when I said it was found to be valid, I didn't say so as having a personal favor of this system (or as you erroneously said, my system) as over any another system: I said so, because the facts objectively and consistently demonstrate so! I'm not hear to play favoritism. I'm here to provide facts of astrological science and to help those who seek it find it.



Besides which you are going way off topic for this member who was simply asking about the validity of secondary progressions and who did not request a lecture on 'intercepted/placidus' !:ninja:

To which member are you referring? If you are referring to HeyPlayGirl, that wasn't to whom I was responsing. It was you. Did not you say:

Originally Posted by astrologer50 http://astrologyweekly.com/forum/images/futura/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=165662#post165662)
You say to check all these things but offer no advice to members as to how you go about things! personally, I recommend solar arcs and they have proved incredibly successful?


I will not defend or attack your beliefs cos you risk being censured and your posts edited or deleted --- so be warned :unsure:



Did you read your own words? I think you ought to be saying that to yourself. Could you be guilty of projection here?

It's quite obviously that you have an issue with my posts. I really do not know, nor care to know, the reason for it (nor for the sarcasm indicated in your choice of words ). But let me just offer one word of advice - or, perhaps, even two: Before coming at me with your replies, get your facts straight. Secondly, pay more attention to the words being said - by myself and (to save yourself any future embarrasment of self-contradiction - as indicated your last quote above) by you.

Thank you, and you have a nice day.

Hi, Starlink...

The quote you posted in reference to spiritual birth times was not mine. astrologer50 posted that statement from website link, which was extracted from the book itself. I provided the link in my first reply to astrologer50, as a referrence if he/she chose to know more about and further investigate the support for use of Placidus house system (for the Tropical Zodiac).

Spiritual birth times is a subject which is probably a bit too advanced for most beginning astrologers here I'm afraid, but thank you for giving us your view on this. However, please do not expect everybody to go along with it or understand it all:) .

I hope everything is understood now.

It is very much understood, and thank you. In fact, one of the things I said to HeyPlayGirl - the person to whom I was originally talking to anyway (not astrologer50) - in the last sentence of the third paragraph was:

But, I won't get into that right now (unless you're interested in hearing more).

And one of the things I said in my first reply to astrologer50 (second quote), was:

The reason why I did not go into it, was because for the first part: I am aware that the idea might be relatively new or unfamiliar and did not want to bombard HeyPlayGirl with so much new information; and for the second part: I would not be able to explain it all in one posting - let alone without illustrations, which I was willing to provide in her completed horoscope and then going backwards - with a tangible, verified chart - to show the steps taken leading up to that point.

There is no intention to go over anyone's head, and I take painstaking efforts to make sure that if I explain something I do so from the ground up. For those who are really interested, I have no problem with investing my time to make sure they understand clearly what it is I have to say about astrology - however unpopular or aggravating it may be to some people's minds. Those who are interested, are free to ask me whatever they wish; those who aren't - and who want to nit-pick and use sarcasm - can keep such nonsense at bay!

Above all, I seek to deal with mature adults for civil discussions and amiable disagreements (when present) - not get wrapped up in foolish behavior in accordance with second-childhood.

Best regards,


[red colour changed into blue and some unasked for expressions removed. Moderator]

[EJ53]

EJ, I am not so sure about this.......just letting you know what I think about it.

I agree with your comment, Star......This might not be the right place for this kind of esoteric topic......I'm already having enough trouble understanding and keeping up with some of the current threads around the forum:biggrin:

EJ:smile:

[Astro-Intuitive]

Hi again, Starlink (and EJ53 - I didn't notice your post in there)

I reread my last post, and just so it's clear, when I said you, Starlink...

It is very much understood, and thank you.

I was referring to her last sentence of:

I hope everything is understood now.

not:

However, please do not expect everybody to go along with it or understand it all:).

Just wanted to clear that up in case if came off as a rebuttal; it was not.

I was saying that what you said was very much understood, and that's why I said thank you afterwards, followed by quotes from some of my previous post that acknowledge that this might be a difficult topic and why I would not go into it much unless asked.

Best

[starlink]

Hi Astro-Intuitive, there was no need for you to explain what you said, I understood it very well:). it certainly did not come off as a rebuttal to me.

[astrologer50]

I use Placidus. For a scientific explanation of its proof as the only valid system for Tropical Astrology, I recommend reading Chapter 12 of the following book:

http://www.paraview.com/willner/index.htm (http://www.paraview.com/willner/index.htm)

By your comments, words and terminolgy suggest and infer you are strongly backing Placidus over others and that's ok-- I do the same with Equal house and there are many threads on AW discussing house systems. We have a search feature here, bit like google....

Reread what I wrote. I never espoused or said that it was my or John's system; what I said was that it was tested and found to be valid over others. I then provided an explanation of why. Furthermore, when I said it was found to be valid, I didn't say so as having a personal favor of this system (or as you erroneously said, my system) as over any another system: I said so, because the facts objectively and consistently demonstrate so! I'm not hear to play favoritism. I'm here to provide facts of astrological science and to help those who seek it find it.

This just sounds like you are backtracking -- if it walks like a duck, makes a noise like a duck then it's a duck......you obviously do favour and espouse placidus -- nothing wrong with this

Quote:
As far as psychical appearance goes, that again is rather hard, cos if people have any planets conj Asc ie: moon that will change the whole appearance :whistling:
Not enough to modify - only add to - the basic characteristics of the ASC.
Well I disagree I think it would change the physical characteristics with one or more planets conj Asc and in 1st. More to the point this OFF topic AGAIN......

You seem intent on taking my comments out of context

Quote:
"and of course which house system you use, like Equal house or Placidus. This takes an awful lot of hard work, research and study"
(the implication of which suggests that one has to take into consideration the house system in conjuction with the progression method before deeming same correct)

you would have well understood and not made that ridiculous comment!


When researching the validity of 'house cusps' -- they are still valid for any progressions in astrology and name calling will NOT do your credibility any good here :smile:

Why do you keep going 'off topic'??

[wilsontc]

To all,

Please keep any and all discussions friendly and focused on the ISSUE not on the PERSON. Calling someone's comments "ridiculous" or "silly" is NOT a discussion of the issues but instead the beginnings of an argument with the person. We want discussions here and NOT arguments.

There are many different styles of astrology and each person passionately believes that their style's the best one. So from time to time people will meet someone else with a method of astrology that is different from theirs and does not work for them. While a discussion about the different astrological methods is useful up to a point, at some point, we have to agree to disagree and move on from there.

As a note about the subject of this thread: this thread is about accuracy in Secondary Progressions, so anything that affects the Progressions' accuracy (such as house systems used) is on topic for this thread.

Moderately,

Tim

[Astro-Intuitive]

As a note about the subject of this thread: this thread is about accuracy in Secondary Progressions, so anything that affects the Progressions' accuracy (such as house systems used) is on topic for this thread.

Moderately,

Tim

Hi, Tim

That's all I intended to explain the to HeyPlayGirl - the reason why Secondary Progressions are largely inaccurate and the conditions or requirements that I used and that enabled me to consistently achieve exceptionally accurate Secondary Progressions (or forecasts).

But, in addition to that, I also acknowledged that because the things I communicated would likely be unfamiliar to HeyPlayGirl, I was also willing first to delineate her horoscope in a manner that would reflect accurate (and precise) Secondary Progressions and second to post and explain such results here. This way, she'll have the tanigble horoscope in her hand to study, see and test on her own (without just taking my word it).

If HeyPlayGirl did not agree (or if anyone, for that matter) that would have been fine. If someone even posted there constructive skeptism and sought proof, that would have been fine also. But having someone come at me (from left field, and to whom my post was not even addressing) by examining and ridiculing my post and as he/she were the post police (and even posted icons as if he/she was such!) - I was not expecting that. And I thought that that was inappropriate and so call that person on it.

If that individual does not agree, or is annoyed by, or finds my posts too long (or whatever the case may be), let him/her ignore it and just answer to the person who originally posted the question. Why feel the need to tell me that my my posts are too 'wordy' or 'off topic' or 'other wordly' 'annoying' (this is not just in this thread but also in others) is beyond me.

But I understand you loud and clear.

And that is why I refuse to deal with, answer to, reply to, or have any other conversations with that individual. I will not insult myself by catering to one who tries to slap me in the face. I will deal only with those who talk to others they way the would want to be spoken to - with respect and maturity.

Best,

[astrologer50]

In an attempt to bring the focus back to astrology then rather than personalities :)

Joseph,

Another thing is that there are different speeds that one can choose for rate of the secondary progression, making clear differences in calculation, and the one used by astro dot com is not the one that I prefer. If you are serious about astrology, this can have devastating results on predictions. The timing of events may be off and you may want to invest in some good software, such as Delphic Oracle or Porphyry Magnus.



Pehaps you could start a thread in our 'Recommendations forum'?

Lost spirit,
Hello!
Progressions are mostly interpreted as inner changes and not events.Maybe that's why you don't find them accurate.I interpret them in aspects to my natal chart only and not by themselves.I'm not saying this is the right way to do it,but doing it like this gives me very accurate results about how I feel and what I have become.And yes,the moon is very important in the progressed chart,so check for it's position

Good advice, not everything in astrology is prediction and 'outer events'

Perhaps you should read this thread entitled: astrology predicts meanings, not events
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17546&page=2 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17546&page=2)
Etiquette and telling people their fate
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17248 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17248)
10Do’s and Don’ts with astrology by Radu
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17450 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17450)

Astrology is not about sitting home on the couch eating nachos and waiting for the planets to make good things happen in your life. It is always your responsibility to work towards making your own dreams come true. Horoscopes simply help you to schedule your actions for the best possible outcome
http://www.tomorrowsedge.net/virgo-monthly-astrology-horoscope.html (http://www.tomorrowsedge.net/virgo-monthly-astrology-horoscope.html)

What Astrology Can and Can Not Do
http://www.ofspirit.com/susanmiller1.htm (http://www.ofspirit.com/susanmiller1.htm)

[aquarius7000]

ALL,

If this 'Secondary Progressions..' thread does not progress to other levels (than defending, offending and justifying); I shall close it. Full stop. I suggest that, if you cannot go OFF the person and ON to the real astrological topic of discussion, please go completely OFF this thread altogether. All posts, from now on, that are close to defending or attacking (no matter what the previous post says) will simply be removed and the thread shall subsequently be closed. Apologies in advance to HeyPlay, if it comes to that.

Looking forward to the co-operation of ALL involved.
AQ7

[EJ53]

......one thing that never seems accurate is secondary progressions.......i'm mainly talking about progressed planets in aspect to other progressed planets....

When interpreting a progressed to progressed planet aspect HPG, are you taking into account the natal chart meaning of each planet?......For example :-

Natally, Mercury rules my Virgo rising chart + it's Gemini MC from Scorpio/2nd......(pushing me firmly into a career as an accountant)......whilst Jupiter is on IC in Capricorn/4th......(making me strive to be regarded as a "pillar of the community").

These two planets are conjunct in Capricorn/3rd in the progressed chart for my 34th birthday......accurately highlighting my battle with an employer (about professional ethics) which led ultimately to the revision of the 1st rule in the Code of Practice for Chartered Accountants in the UK.......But, that cannot be gleaned from the progression without taking into account the natal meaning of my Mercury and Jupiter.

EJ:sideways:

[gemini59]

I know this is sort of an older post but hey...great topic...even with all the back and fro...
Astro-intuitive...I have 6/12 intercepted and can affirm this fits: For 6th/12th Placidus - service organizations, donators of wealth and benefactors, senators, governors, judges, federal and state employees, doctors and nurses, household employees, workaholitics, pionner achievers and all those who work for the benefit or service to humanity. .
I was surprised and delighted by that fit. I have been playing around with my birth time lately though my birth certificate says 1:21am I suspect by solar arcs that this is not quite right. It would not be off by much, say just 5 minutes or so, just enough for me to take that first breath, the doctor check vitals and look at the clock or some such. I watch my progressions too and have experienced the same confusion as HeyPlayGirl. I do not see that that five minutes would create too much difference. Right now progressed moon has just entered Leo by a couple of minutes. The difference between what I suspect as my birth time and my birthcerticiate time is by progressed moon a three minute difference, one at 00'02 Leo and the other at 00'05 Leo. Now progressed moon will join progressed sun in 11 months. The ascendant has clearly changed from 12'41 using birth certificate to 10'35 Aries...
I don't know...can you give me some idea on what to look for? I feel confused now about progressions as I have pretty much, as HeyPlaygirl, give them only a cursory look.