View Full Version : Vocation
06-05-2006, 11:26 AM
I'm reading the new (ish) book by Noel Tyl on MC extensions/vocation. It's above my head. Has anyone else read it?
According to Tyl you take the sign on the MC, in my case Sag. Jupiter is in the 12th house, in the sign of Capricorn. Saturn is conjunct Jupiter, also in the 12th/Capricorn. So, Saturn, in the 12th is the final dispositor of my chart. The other aspects that Saturn makes are: an opposition to the Leo moon in the 6th, and a square to my Aries Venus in the 2nd.
So, now we've got the 12th, 6th, and 2nd houses involved. With a strong emphasis on Saturn.
I feel like a monkey staring at a math problem trying to figure out what this is indicating as far as where my career strengths are...
I know that 12th house is behind the scenes. The moon in the 6th is the sign of the workaholic... 12th is also hospitals, institutions. Either Jupiter or Saturn are administration.
Anyway, any insights would be appreciated.
For those more advanced Astrologers, I do recommend the book.... but it's above my head at the moment.
I dare say your book may be several feel above my own head, but I tried to apply the method you described and had some fun doing it. What I can do is offer my own impressions of the chart info that you offered, in the spirit that an outsider's perspective is always useful (if not to teach you anything new, at least as something to disagree with ;) )
Saggie MC - I'm thinking somehow an 'exploratory' career, somehow expanding the horizons of your field or profession
Capricorn Jupiter 12th conjunct Capricorn Saturn 12th - maybe the 'jup conj Saturn' spiel from astrologyweekly will help here:
"The conjunction of Jupiter to Saturn shows that you have enormous potential for success, although it won't come without effort. In spite of overwhelming odds against success, you are eager to explore new means to make a massive assault and assert yourself in the world. You have the fortitude and staying power to mobilize all your resources for this task.....Your capacity to achieve goals is in direct proportion to your willingness to accept self-discipline and hard work".
Now, being in the twelfth house, maybe this huge and wonderful stock of personal resources you have to succeed revolves around your ability to work behind the scenes, to support others in a more 'public' position through providing the opportunity structure (ha ha, saturn(structure) + Jupiter (opportunity) = opportunity structure :)) So, maybe you're more likely to establish your role, in the following way:
"A Twelfth House Saturn suggests that your career or area of responsibility in the world relates in some way to work in seclusion, or for the care or education of others - (Jupiter) Inspiration, support and guidance may come from an inner search for spiritual fulfilment - in the form of meditation, seclusion and introspective study. At some stage of life you may make a great personal sacrifice in order to fulfill your ideal of worthwhile service"
So yeah, it does sound like you say, career wise you're all jupiterian and saturnian it seems to be focused in this giant bundle of 12th house, which, according to me, is all summed up by the ideas of working supportively to provide opportunity structure for others, whether than be inter personally, as a teacher, health worker, counsellor, or indirectly. Either way, it seems likely that you're capable of quite generous sacrifice according to ideals.
And jumping to a leo moon in the sixth, I might dare to say that you have strong emotional loyalties to those who you work for and with. You may be somewhat of a leader, despite working ('behind the scenes' :)). Maybe this means you're likely to take on the burdens of working 'for' others, through loyalty, and this in in potential conflict with a need to work alone, with freedom to make your own contribution.
And finally, square aries venus in 2nd. Instinct says, in relation to career, this suggests a very active, go-getter desire for trappings, and possibly relationships, of status!! Okay now I'm really guessing :D Perhaps you like to get ahead through knowing and smiling at the right people, and perhaps you like other people to note your success through ownership of some brand new, flashy stuff! Maybe you have a well positioned, and wealthy, personal or business partner.
hehe, well that was fun, please excuse anything that was too far out :)
I tried a similar thing for myself, and came up with:
Aries MC - pioneering, active, noticed
Virgo Mars in 3rd - in communications, and in a detailed, critical fashion
Saggie Mercury 6th - mental work, possibly travel and publishing, in the field of humanitarian service
Scorpio Jupiter 4th - with intense emotional and engagement, (and opinions...save the world crusade, oh dear!!)
Libra Pluto 3rd - and the urge to transform/ or exercise influence through balanced, judicious thought or communication
Aquarius Venus 7th - built through possibly unusual, humanitarian business and social relationships/partnerships
Spot the idealist, anyone?? My background's in teaching English overseas, and I'm currently studying for my Masters in "international and community development", with "professional writing and editing" on the side. My problem is, I'm always "currently studying"...are there planets to indicate permanent student status?!? anyway, it has my parents worried ;)
On the other hand, I could be naive hyperactive know it all who tells everyone else what to think, and attempts to dictate what they (not me!) should be doing to save the world, because it's only fair that they should do the work, and I'm too busy getting paid to study and jetting around with my rich partner (whenever he turns up) on holiday....
Either way sounds pretty cool :D
06-05-2006, 10:01 PM
Wow! Thank you so much for your input on my chart, which I realized, I forgot to post, it is posted here somewhere. :) Many psychics and/or astrologers have told me over the years that I should be a healer, but it would have to be in the non-traditional sense of the word... (I hate blood and stuff.) :) But I could heal with the word, like a counselor. That, I'd like.
Do you have your chart posted somewhere here?
Aries on the MC, I would think would definitely put you out there. :) Virgo would make you detailed, which is good. Are you bossy? Or should I say, forceful in your communications... leaving no doubt to those listening what you are trying to convey?
Saggie Mercury in the 6th. I see you like to have fun at work and have fun with your job. I doubt that you are the one that sits in the background and keeps your mouth shut. :)
You do your traveling overseas, through teaching. You have Pisces on the 9th? Very mystical, very intuitive. Travel over water? I think that the 9th house would show your education, and the fact that you are always "currently studying?"
Where is Uranus in your chart? Because with the Aquarius Venus in the 7th, you'd need to go on to Uranus. And figure out the final dispositor in your chart.
My list is so short. Your list, like my boyfriend's list is long.
I can see that you like to be fair, or unbiased in your communications You should be writing, in some form or another. Lots of communications in your chart.
Not that I am very helpful, but I can see some stuff there. :)
My boyfriend's chart, which is posted here somewhere, too... He's got a lengthy list, too....
MC=Libra = Venus/Aquarius/2nd = Urauns/Virgo/8th = Mercury/Cap/12th = Saturn/Pisces/2nd = Neptune/Scorpio/10th = Pluto/Virgo/8th and that makes the final dispositor Mercury in the 12th. He has 1 quintile in his chart between Saturn and Mercury. Gemini rules his 6th house and in that house, he has Jupiter and his PoF in Gemini. He's got Sun and Moon square MC, Mercury sextile MC, Jupiter trine MC.
I see creativity and communication with his chart. He is an RN.
Oh well this is kind of fun, but I need a lot more practice!
Hi Lori, glad you liked it, it was my first try ;)
Actually, I may be considered somewhat of a lazy astrology student, because I'm not reading anything outside the net...but I like to figure it out by attempting things and the good thing about his forum is getting feedback
My chart is:
You're right, I need to follow on to my saggie uranus in the 5th house (which is the end of the trail, before it starts repeating) I got distracted :P
Uranus, the final dispositor, is opposite moon (11th, gemini) sextile venus (aquarius, 7th) and mars (virgo, 3rd). so there seems to be this ultimate formation of moon, venus, uranus and mars that would describe my career.
Hahah, am I bossy? I think I ought to be bossier, actually. The world would be better off if I was the kind of person who liked to rule! I'm certianly not shy, these days, but I am also very qualified about putting my views forward, and tend to be more forceful in writing than in speech. I *never* lose my temper, or go for the all out confrontation, the only thing that can goad me into it is someone I can't avoid who rudely insists trampling my personal ideals or feelings. Then they're in for it. I can count the number of times on one hand, though. :D
There are no planets in my 9th, but I have a whole bunch in sagittarius, which I suspect relates to perpetual studenthood.
Fun at work - hey I never thought of it that way! Mercury in 6th is part of a stellium with neptune and sun, I've always thought that together they suggest I want to be "in" my work, ego, mind and soul...and refuse to do any job which isn't 'grand' enough for me :D
Well, I'd like to think about your boyfriend's too, but for now, astrology is eating up a little too much of my attention, I will get back to you though...
I´ll give it a try... it´s seems fun!
Aries MC... Drive, motivation, competitive, leader, guide...
Mars in Libra in the 3rd house...Artistic Drive, balanced and diplomatic leading, not straight foreward agressive, Comunicating asertivly and beatifully...
Venus in Pisces in the 9th...Arstistic and mystic ideology, ideals, love for travels and foreign cultures, travelling with one´s vivid imagination, music...
Neptune in Sagitarius in the 6th,... wanting to experience redemption and expansion though one´s life style, wanting the job of our dreams or just day dreaming in a non-creative job, teaching sth mystic, creative...
Jupiter in Scorpio in the 4th house, expansion is deep and profround, related to nature and the unexplored, the occult... Expansion in powerful and regenerating...
Pluto in Libra in the 4th house,..
Venus is its dispositor such as mars (MC lord) dispositor, too. So I´ll say venus it´s the final dispositor. Besides I´m a Taurean, my sun is in the 10th house. My Ascendant is Gemini and its lord, mercury it´s in Taurus, too. So I would say that Venus in Pisces in the 9th it´s a very important placement in my chart.
06-06-2006, 07:04 PM
Do you sing your communications? :) I will look at this more later, but it is interesting.
06-06-2006, 07:38 PM
Oh, you all have long lists, mine is quite simple:
Taurus MC (conjunct North node and Lilith in 9th house).
Venus in Virgo in 1st house (conjunct Ascendant and Mars).
Mercury in Libra in 2nd/3rd house - depends of the house system used (conjunct sun in Libra in 2nd house.)
I'll try to find that book somewhere, it sounds interesting.
bumping this one up too... for all those curious about careers in charts :)
08-15-2006, 05:09 PM
Thank you Howl! After reading in the Occupations thread, I tried to search this topic. I obviously can't get along with the search function :rolleyes:
Pluto is in Scorpio in H10
So Pluto is my final dispositor.
The aspects Pluto makes:
08-15-2006, 06:14 PM
For my Vocational dispositors I have Taurus on the M.C.
Venus in Capricorn 5th
Saturn in Virgo 1st
Mercury in Pisces 7th
Neptune in Sagittarius 4th
Jupiter in Leo 11th
Sun in Pisces 7th
Back to Neptune.
If the Moon is the key my Moon is in Pisces 7th and and rules 11th.
To figure this out I will have to go back and read the articles I posted on Occupations (I don't always take everything in at once I will re-read to double check on how to do it.)
But looking at this the Social Axis, and the Relationship Axis seem prominent and then we have the 4th home, nurturing, caring type profession.
08-15-2006, 06:57 PM
Well I have re-read the Articles I have posted and I am sort of going to challenge it. Because the example given on the woman who is famous for her cooking, bringing what she has studied to T.V and writing books. The chart clearly shows it without having to use dispositors.
First we have a stellium in the 4th house of Sun, Mercury and Venus. I have read three planets or more in a house can indicate profession, Careers relating to Cancer will be well suited for her i.e Cooking her Moon is in the 5th house so possibly creative cooking.
The 3rd cusp is Cancer Communication about food. With Neptune Placed in the 3rd literary talent. Uranus ruler of M.C Mass Media with Uranus placed in the 9th brings changes and development through technology, further education and travelling.
Uranus opposed Neptune (9th - 3rd) Mass Media, Communication television and writing. 3rd Cancer about food.
Jupiter on horizon, education she is teaching to the public.
Maybe this is just me but we can probably see our Vocations in our Natal Chart without routing through with dispositors. If I am wrong please tell me.
08-15-2006, 07:37 PM
I agree with you, Shining Ray. However, from what little I know about dispositors, I think that it is another way of approaching it, and confirming it. I think the final dispositors kind of shine a "floodlight" on the overall theme of the chart, which would include vocation. Granted I know very little about dispositors, but I would think that they would still blend with the overall chart, NOT take the place of it.
In doing dispositors for myself and some friends, I found that the final dispositors had to do with a major life lesson. As I've stated in a previous post somewhere on the forum, one's true "calling" will not come into perfect view until that major lesson is learned. So, in this way the dispositors point the way to the calling, as well. However, some people may be in their true vocation, but will still not come into the fullness of it until that major life lesson is learned. (Example, Jon Bon Jovi. He is in his calling. He was born to be a musician, but there's still something left he has to learn before he can "be all he can be". Although I think he's starting to make some major strides towards it. It would be interesting to do his dispositors......;))
08-15-2006, 08:24 PM
Have you ever noticed how easy it is to look for Career indicators when you know what a person does for a living. You can easily see all the indications. Yet I look at my own chart and sometimes I can't make it out, but I am very indecisive on career matters to begin with.
Well I guess on the dispositing planets maybe I am working with the public with my 7th house placements. Social type work with my 5th/11th houses involved analyzing cases possibly with Saturn in Virgo 1st. The 4th Neptune healing home issues/problems.
Social worker fits this description.
Which I have been drawn to this sort of occupation, so maybe I sort of fitted my placements in. Knowing what I am interested in.
But Natally all this can be seen. Sun, Moon, Mercury in Pisces 7th. I feel people's pain and suffering and would like to help.
Mercury in 7th work with the public.
Venus trine Taurus M.C Domestic worker and home help (Got this from my Taurus occupations list) Venus in Capricorn relating in career.
Saturn in Virgo 1st Analyzing. Looking at detail. Welfare officer, domestic help (again from Virgo occupations under Virgo).
Mars in Aquarius 6th house Asserting self for a collective goal. In a work situation occupations involved health.
The Jupiter in 11th is linked to my Venus by Opposition and by Mars inconjunt. Teamwork, group activities. Fund raising for humanitarian organizations.
obviously I have worked in other type jobs which is seen in my chart Natally Charity organizations by (Mars in Aquarius 6th and Jupiter 11th.) Animal work (Mars in 6th.) Worked driving a little truck (Mars in 6th) collecting orders (Saturn in Virgo.) oh and mostly with men (Mars). Nursery Nurse (Venus in 5th ruler of M.C and trines Midheaven) Quite a collection of different jobs, I don't last long in work (Mars in 6th square Uranus).
08-16-2006, 04:33 AM
Maybe this is just me but we can probably see our Vocations in our Natal Chart without routing through with dispositors.
Ray, you have at least one other person who agrees with you: me! :) I have tried to do Noel's Midheaven extension method, but all I have gotten is confused. This is because Noel follows the sign rulership up to a point...unless he doesn't want to. In the example in your link he quickly ends up with a mutual reception...so he brings in another planet to "break the tie"! To me, this ALMOST seems like cheating! ;) In addition, Noel is VERY big on using the sign on the cusp of a house to understand the energy of a house, instead of using the planets actually IN the house to understand the energy of the house. To me, this has NEVER made any sense in a practical, intuitive way. So I don't use Noel's method. Instead, I look at the WHOLE chart and see what patterns jump out at me.
With a non-extended Midheaven, ;)
08-16-2006, 09:35 AM
At least I am not alone on my opinion on his method. According to the reviews this is a much needed guide that will change forever the process of vocational consulting. As you said Tim if you a reach a block in his process he just finds another planet, which kind of goes against the whole idea of Midheaven extension process. The high reviews this book is receiving are possibly just to sell the book.
11-23-2006, 01:59 PM
I wonder what it means if it comes down to the Sun.
Tyl's method is interesting. Maybe I should get the book....
11-23-2006, 09:01 PM
Sun is "self-expression" and is also linked to the performing arts. So maybe you are interested in performance or in expressing yourself in some way.
11-26-2006, 03:13 AM
Just a comment on Moon in the 6th, I dont see it as workaholic necessarily. It can be that you are the mother hen at work, you have significant relationships with women there. You may have digestion problems. You can mother your pets. Your work situation will go through phases, you may work with domestic products or from home or with family members or your work mates feel like family. Many different scenarios. However I do feel with 12th house emphasis you can become involved with church matters, spirituality and philosphies with Jupiter involved. You can also work with animals, vet science, promotiong animal acts but as you say more behind the scenes. Saturn can involve the government aid along with Jupiter. Perhaps working with underprivileged children in some way.
11-26-2006, 11:32 AM
I have Mars in the 6th house of Aquarius my Mars rules my 8th house and the ruling planet of my 6th Uranus is in Scorpio 3rd house and makes lots of lovely trines to South Node/Moon and Mercury in Pisces and a sextile to Venus in Capricorn 5th.
Mars in the 6th is supposed to be an indication for a workaholic ....but I have Saturn in Virgo which I think restricts me work wise plus Mercury in Pisces square to Neptune doesn't make me the most decisive person concerning work matters. I have hardly worked in my life but when I do work I am a very hard competitive worker.
I better get off my *** and do some work because my Saturn return is approaching.:68:
11-26-2006, 11:42 AM
I think overall for my lack of work (Saturn in Virgo) it is because of very low self confidence and too much focus went on the dramas of my relationships in my younger days. Add my indecisiveness and no clarity I just have not made any effort into finding suitable work for myself. Plus not much fire in my chart although as I said before Mars in the 6th gives me energy in the workplace I find it hard sometimes to get motivated. Oh and I have a very mutable chart so I don't really stay very fixed on my goals as they are always changing.
11-27-2006, 02:03 AM
You are lucky you didnt have to work obviously. I have Saturn right on my 6th house cusp and have worked all my life whether I liked it or not and mostly I didnt. I had periods of unemployment and with a stellium in the 6th house this time around I had to get down and provide for my own everyday needs such as housing, clothing and food which is Virgo and 6th house domain. This I set up for myself by not marrying or have a regular partner to support me. These days I work for myself and when I want to and in the field I have an interest in. Saturn 2nd return....
Mars in the 6th can mean accidents at work, aggressive attitudes working in a man's domain or working with metal, military, surgeons, dentists or with selfish co workers.
11-27-2006, 12:39 PM
My main job now is looking after my baby which I see as very hard work. I have worked in a very male enviroment driving a truck. I wouldn't say I was lucky not to work though.
11-27-2006, 01:28 PM
Claire we are two completely different personalities and where you excel in the work area and are a very hard worker I do better in other areas than you do. I have South Node in Pisces in 7th and NN Virgo in 1st with Saturn in 1st so I have major lessons around daily duties learning to discriminate and focus on the details and learn about service/order and everything else associated with Virgo and lessons with the 1st house of self.
Saturn is my Achilles heel which is in Virgo associated with the 6th house and Mercury and my Mercury is in fall in Pisces conjunct the Moon and square to Neptune in 4th so I have a lot of problems to overcome in this area of my life. So work issues/daily duties home life and relationships (and learning to be more Virgo) are a challenge to me. As another area of your life will be challenging to you and yet I may have mastered your greatest lesson in life. We all have different challenges and when you study Astrology you will see this.
You can't view my work problems from the same perspective as how you work, you have a full 6th house and I have a full 7th house with these planets in Pisces so I am not as practical as others, because I am still learning my lessons. You need to take these differences into consideration.
11-27-2006, 08:41 PM
Actually I wasnt making any judgements on you. How did I know that you didnt inherit or were born wealthy? You have taken my comments as a criticism of you when I dont even know you. I was merely stating my position. Of course babies are hard work. I feel you may have had other critisms and feel some guilt which is not necessary. I know that many women feel they have to be superwoman and do everything, work and bring up a family which is not fair and not what womens liberation is all about. Just a double load in some cases. Your second posting by the way was judging me against you.
11-28-2006, 06:39 AM
Sorry Claire if you were not making any judgments on me then I apologize. You can't tell sometimes on these posts how something is said. It was the part below which I wasn't sure how you meant it. But I took it wrong way my fault.
You are lucky you didn't have to work obviously
vBulletin® v3.8.2, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.