Familial Karma

[MariaC]

Hello!

Please share your knowledge about Familial Karma.
I have it and I want very much to understand and deal with it.

Thank you very much.
Cecilia

[divine g]

I think you have to look at your 8th house to understand your family karma and how to deal with it. There's a book called "Karmic Astrology" that deals with that. It also shows past life connections with others who have outer planets that conjunct your inner planets.

[waybread]

Maria, can you construct the charts of your family members? You don't need to post them here unless you wish to, but do them for yourself. Just input the birth times as "unknown" if you don't know it, as it is better to do without houses than it is to insert a "dummy" birth-time (like 12:00 noon) that could be really erroneous and really goof up the house cusps.

Then look for patterns or commonalities in the charts. You may find certain signs, for example, cycling through people's charts ( your asc. might be Mom's moon or Dad's sun, for example.)

In addition to astrology, I also have an interest in family history/genealogy. I found that the women in my family tend to display Mercury/Moon aspects; and just about everyone has/had sun-Pluto aspects.

So if you have a sun-Pluto aspect, just for example, you might find this in siblings, parents, kids, or grandparents.

If you take such aspects at their simplest meanings (sun-Pluto could signify ruthless and devastating impacts on one's identity, or, the ability to profoundly transform one's identity, for example) they may key into your own personal experiences.

There's another level to get to here, on dwads, or the division of each sign into segments of 2.5 degrees. If they interest you, report back, and I will try to explain how they function.

[MariaC]

I think you have to look at your 8th house to understand your family karma and how to deal with it. There's a book called "Karmic Astrology" that deals with that. It also shows past life connections with others who have outer planets that conjunct your inner planets.
My 8th house is empty...
I will look for the book. Thank you.

[noideaaboutastro]

This is really interesting. My 8th house is in opposition to a stellium in the 2nd house and my son's chart is the same. We both have our chiron in the 8th house as well. He only has his chiron in the 8th house, my Venus and Mercury are also in my 8th house. I'm going to see if I can find my mum and dad's time of birth and see if we have similarities:smile:. Do you think it is familial karma that my son and I have such similar 8th houses?

[MariaC]

Maria, can you construct the charts of your family members? You don't need to post them here unless you wish to, but do them for yourself. Just input the birth times as "unknown" if you don't know it, as it is better to do without houses than it is to insert a "dummy" birth-time (like 12:00 noon) that could be really erroneous and really goof up the house cusps.

Then look for patterns or commonalities in the charts. You may find certain signs, for example, cycling through people's charts ( your asc. might be Mom's moon or Dad's sun, for example.)

In addition to astrology, I also have an interest in family history/genealogy. I found that the women in my family tend to display Mercury/Moon aspects; and just about everyone has/had sun-Pluto aspects.

So if you have a sun-Pluto aspect, just for example, you might find this in siblings, parents, kids, or grandparents.

If you take such aspects at their simplest meanings (sun-Pluto could signify ruthless and devastating impacts on one's identity, or, the ability to profoundly transform one's identity, for example) they may key into your own personal experiences.

There's another level to get to here, on dwads, or the division of each sign into segments of 2.5 degrees. If they interest you, report back, and I will try to explain how they function.
Thank you for your answer.
I have been looking at my parents charts but it is still difficult for me to "read" them. I am starting now to really study astrology. It would be great if you could help me.
Can I send you the birth dates? The only birth time I know is mine.

[Arian Maverick]

I think you have to look at your 8th house to understand your family karma and how to deal with it.

I'm no astrology expert, but I'm pretty sure the fourth house represents one's familial roots.

What sign is on the cusp of your IC, and what planet rules this sign? Which aspects does this planet receive? Also, do you have any planets situated in the fourth house?

As waybread described, you are likely to find patterns among the charts of family members, certain planetary aspects or sign emphasis or configurations. For example, my brother and I both "inherited" a yod configuration from our father which has the common Pluto-Neptune sextile base and a personal planet at the apex. I believe this configuration is indicative of family karma from my father's line which we must process.

If I may ask, what is the nature of your family karma? This may indicate the types of astrological influences you should search for.

Arian Maverick

[utzxubiru]

hello, today my dad calls me on the phone worried that he had made a sort of injury in his finger... ok it happens right!? well the weird thing, at least to me, is that in the time space of this week both me and my sister also managed to make an injury, guess where, yup, my sister, me and my dad in the space of one week managed to made an almost serious injury in the finger, my sister got her finger stuck in the car door, i cut myself at work with a knife an my dad also made a cut in his finger all in the same week. i was wandering where to post this question since morning now i found this topic would this fit in familial karma maybe? maybe just a coincidence whats your opinion? best wishes bye.

[waybread]

MariaC, I will do what I can--I am having relatives visiting on Wednesday for a few days (currently I am busy cleaning house!) so it may be best if you post the information on this board: that way others can help you, also. If you aren't sure how to construct a chart, go to the www.astro.com (http://www.astro.com) "free charts" pages, and just type in the birth data. Then it is a matter of looking for patterns, as Arian described.

Fingers are ruled by Mercury, Gemini, Virgo, and the 3rd house; and injuries often involve Mars or Uranus. Utzxubiru, you might see whether your family members had transits involving these planets and signs when their injuries occurred. I hope they're healing, now!

[divine g]

@Arian,
Of course the 4th house deals with family and roots, but 8th house also deals with inheritances from the family,which can be material or spiritual. Being that the 8th is also ruled by Pluto, it goes much deeper than the 4th house and it's more generational. The 4th house is ruled by the moon, and mother figures, so I would think it would deal with more immediate family issues, but in terms of karma going way back through generations, it makes sense that the pluto would have more to do with it.

The two houses trine each other, and both deal with water and emotions. I've also read that the 12th house is the house of karma, so maybe studying all three together will yield fruit. But I did read somewhere that the 8th house of mysteries deals with family karma directly. The 4th and 12th deal with it indirectly, the 4th probably dealing with personal household karma, and the 12th dealing with our collective karma in general. Being that karma implies past lives, I think it would go much deeper than the moon-ruled 4th..also Pluto rules all things dark, deep, occult and mysterious, and its much slower orbit than the moon would give it rulership over generational karma extending over many lifetimes, as opposed to personal karma accumulated in this short lifetime..

[Arian Maverick]

I can see how the conditions of the eighth house describe karma, but I still do not understand its precise connection to familial karma. The fourth house/tenth house axis has been associated with the familal roots for a very long time. Why are we suddenly assigning rulership to a different house?

Of course the 4th house deals with family and roots, but 8th house also deals with inheritances from the family,which can be material or spiritual.

I have not read any descriptions of the eighth house as pertaining to inheritances from the family. Yes, the common phrase used is "other people's resources," but I believe "other people" in this sense refers to partners. The eighth house is the second house (resources) from the seventh house (partners). How does family enter this equation?

Being that the 8th is also ruled by Pluto, it goes much deeper than the 4th house and it's more generational.

I agree that the eighth house is often associated with Pluto, using the principles of the astrological alphabet (i.e Aries = Mars = first house, Taurus = Venus = second house, etc.), yet Pluto does not rule the eighth house in every natal chart because Aries and Scorpio are not on the cusp of the eighth house in every natal chart. I agree that the influence of Pluto is more generational than the influence of the Moon, but I would not extend this to the houses.

Pluto certainly appears to be a karmic planet, but does it necessarily indicate familial karma? I believe that a generation which is born under the influence of Pluto in a certain sign share a certain generational karma, yet obviously, not all members of this generation are related to each other through biological ties.

Arian Maverick

[divine g]

@Maria C
One more thing about that book, it had some interesting things to say about past-life karma placing us in certain families. Such as, a mother-son relationship in this lifetime, could have been a romantic relationship in a past lifetime. It's pretty revolutionary thinking to say the least, but the way the information is presented and backed up with astrological evidence, really enlightened me.

For example, my grandma, who knew nothing about astrology, but was very religious, felt that as her only grandson from her 9 kids, I was the return of my grandfather. Interestingly, before she passed, I visited her home overseas, and for some reason, always liked to sit in this particular chair. I later found out that it was my grandfather's favorite chair. Little mysterious things like that remind us that we didnt come out of nowhere, and it was something in a past life which brought us back. It also put my rocky relationship with my father into perspective. At some point I realized there had to be a reason we never got along, and sure enough, it makes sense that the universe would send an abusive father back to earth to be raised by the son he abused, because that's the only way he can learn what it feels like. Karma...

[divine g]

@Arian,
Wow, are you serious? Inheritance, is by definition, something you get from your family, father, mother, grandparent, whoever. You inherit DNA from your previous FAMILY members. I'll give you an example. I INHERITED my father's feet. I'll also INHERIT his businesses if and when he passes. Those are physical and financial things. Pluto rules all of that, especially, deeper spiritual matters. So if I can inherit my father's physical genes, his financial resources, I can also inherit some of his spiritual resources, whether good or bad. I'm not making this up, this is what I read, and it makes sense when you know the basics about Pluto and the 8th house. Certain things you just have to deduce using logic. So yes, if my father had bad karma, I can inherit that from him too, even if it's just a simple case of one of his former enemies not liking me, simply because I inherited his name. Does it make more sense now?

And since we're talking about houses, as I said above, the 8th house and 4th house are both water houses trine each other, so they are naturally, related(no pun intended)

[Arian Maverick]

Inheritance, is by definition, something you get from your family, father, mother, grandparent, whoever.

It depends which definition of inheritance you're referring to. Of course, in the biological senses, you can only inherit biological material from your biological parents--although some adopted children may not consider their biological parents parents to be "family" in the cultural sense.

However, if you're referring to inheritance of money or material possessions, one does not always inherit such things from family members, although this appears to be a predominant cultural trend.

Certain things you just have to deduce using logic.

Yes, I agree--but one must be wary of accepting apparently logical statements as fact without further research and observation.

You may regard my post to be confrontational, but I do not necessarily disagree with your assessment of the eighth house; I just wish to know, logically, how you arrived at this assessment. I like to use derived houses because they make sense to me. It's likely that your method of logical deduction is different than mine, and that's OK because we may arrive at the same answer.

I will not argue this matter further with you because I believe we will reach an impasse.

Arian Maverick

[divine g]

@Arian
The eighth house is the second house (resources) from the seventh house (partners). How does family enter this equation?

Again, with the 7th house ruling marriage, when you marry somebody, they become part of your family. In fact, when two people marry, it's almost as if both their families get married. I mean going way back to giving dowries, money, and marriage and family, are so intertwined, I have no idea how you cant see how the 8th house has anything to do with family.

Also, I deal with equal houses, and as far back as I can remember, EVERY astrology book I have read has assigned Pluto to the 8th house.

[Arian Maverick]

Again, with the 7th house ruling marriage, when you marry somebody, they become part of your family. In fact, when two people marry, it's almost as if both their families get married. I mean going way back to giving dowries, money, and marriage and family, are so intertwined, I have no idea how you cant see how the 8th house has anything to do with family.

This explanation makes sense--but I believe there should be a distinction between biological family members and those members who join one's family upon marriage (i.e. in-laws). Can one "inherit" karma from in-laws?

And since we're talking about houses, as I said above, the 8th house and 4th house are both water houses trine each other, so they are naturally, related(no pun intended)

Yes, I agree that these houses are related in certain matters. Yet it seems incorrect for me to state that because the fifth house rules children, and because the first house and the ninth houses are both fire houses trine each other, these houses also deal with matters of children. This seems to be the logic you've employed for family/fourth house.

Arian Maverick

[divine g]

Listen, I dont want to get too involved in this, but yes, you can inherit karma from anyone close to you. Simple example. You're in a car with someone, and you dont know it's stolen. You both get pulled over, and you're both guilty. Ask anyone who has married into the Kennedy family or something, whether you can "inherit" karma from in-laws. Ask anyone who, God forbid, lost a family member who married someone who killed them. That type of stuff affects the whole family. And it can spiral out of control, if certain family members deal with that tragedy through drinking or violence or suicide, etc., and that kind of stuff can get passed down. But yes, just take one look at the Kennedy family, and see karma at work.

[divine g]

And in regards to the 1st, 5th, and 9th, they are related to children in the sense that
1. Your children usually look like you(1st house rules appearances)
2. Having children is a way of expanding(9th) one's self(1st) since the 9th house is dealing with expansion and growth
3. Also one's 9th house ideas and philosophies are like "brain-children", that express(5th) one's individuality(1st)

Im sure if you thought about it more, you can see even more connections between the fire house trines, it's just a matter of adding up the basics.

Again, I keep things simple with the equal house system, I don't argue with astrology, I just respect it and try and understand it, scientifically and mathematically. They say in science that the simplest answer is usually the best answer.

And for old time's sake, you can see that the earth trines are all connected in that money and material possessions(2nd house), usually come from having a job and fulfilling your daily duties at said job(6th house), and if you're really good at your job, and invest money wisely, you can build a career, and have a reputation for being well known for what you do(10th).

In the air trine you have your earliest, closest sibling relationships(3rd house), growing to personal romantic/or business relationships(7th), to your relationship to groups and the larger society in general(11th).

So my logic on the 4th, 8th and 12th is not faulty, it applies to all the elements. I'm a Gemini, logic is my thing:cool:

[Munchkin]

This is a very interesting topic. I have always wondered why I have a Moon Square Pluto and none of my siblings do. My mom has Moon Trine Pluto and my dad has Moon Sextile Pluto. My North Node is in 8th house in Pisces. I am wondering if this may be karmic in some way? I do know that all 3 of us had complicated births. But other than that still trying to understand it.

[divine g]

From what I was learning, you can find out your past-life connections with your parents by finding where their outer planets conjunct your inner planets, or vice versa. I also have moon square pluto, with my pluto conjunct my mom's natal sun. I would have to read that book again to see how they would interpret it, but it would probably say something along the lines of one of us having power over the other in a past life.

With your north node in 8th house pisces, it's natural for you to want to do investigative work here. I also have Pisces in my 8th. With Neptune ruling that house, I think you have deep spiritual connections with your family members that goes back many lifetimes..