General question about relocation charts

[hermetic]

In a situation when someone has been living very far from the birthplace for years and the relocated chart is quite different from natal in terms of houses, which chart would you use to look at - natal or relocated?

I understand natal as a basis for entire life, and relocated as later influences, much as transits or progressed chart, but when relocated shows completely different picture, for example, natal Sun in 12th, relocated on MC, or natal Saturn in 2nd and relocated in 11th? those are quite different and I have no idea what to make of it?

can relocated 'become' a new natal? :whistling: or do you always look at natal?
I appologize if this is a basic[stupid] question?

[EJ53]

This is a good question Hermetic, and particularly relevant now as people become less and less likely to spend their lives in the place they were born.

I don't know the answer, but it perhaps hinges upon what actually changes in the relocated chart.........Planets/signs/aspects remain the same, but the planets within the houses and the signs on the cusp of the latter change.......So, our character/strengths/weaknesses and behaviour are unaltered but where/how this is seen by others will change.........which does seem to accord with the theory of relocation astrology that it can be used to change our lives, since it's how others perceive what we say/do that results in rejection/acceptance or indifference.

On that basis, a sun in (say) Leo/12th might lack confidence in the place of birth yet be very outgoing if relocated to place it on the MC.......but, if Scorpio has replaced the former Leo ascendant, this person might still have inner doubts about what others think of him/her.

So, I'd be inclined to work with the relocated chart as a new natal chart.....secure in the knowledge that anything of major significance appears in more than one way in a nativity, ensuring that what the Soul intends to encounter will be encountered wherever we choose to live.

EJ:unsure:

[astrologer50]

Have you tried the astrocartography on astro.com, go to free horoscopes, then look to right. Astrocartography works and there is forum on AW that covers this and on astro.com on interactive, travel they offer astrocartography/world maps, which has its place and explains which planets rules lat and long where you relocate to and how this will affect you in this location. It is my personal opinion that relocated ‘birth charts’ don’t work, there are plenty of other techniques available.

Have just realised where the confusion may be on astro.com to get a solar return for a new location, you have to find the option to use a relocated chart, which does mean changing location from where natally you were born to where you are living now. This is just so you can get a relocated solar return only.....

Relocated birth charts are more or less astrocartography, whereby all your natal planets are stretched out over the globe and uses lat and long to discover best place to live. Apparently relocated birth charts does something similar (but not as widely used or known as astrocartography) whereby especially over the Angles could bring a planet out of 12, 3 6 or 9th to become much more active

[AquariusT]

I have always been taught that it is the new Natal. I have not done one but I am going to study it this summer.

[katydid]

In a situation when someone has been living very far from the birthplace for years and the relocated chart is quite different from natal in terms of houses, which chart would you use to look at - natal or relocated?

I understand natal as a basis for entire life, and relocated as later influences, much as transits or progressed chart, but when relocated shows completely different picture, for example, natal Sun in 12th, relocated on MC, or natal Saturn in 2nd and relocated in 11th? those are quite different and I have no idea what to make of it?

can relocated 'become' a new natal? :whistling: or do you always look at natal?
I appologize if this is a basic[stupid] question?

If the person has totally taken on their life in their new country, and has no plans to return, then often people will begin looking at their relocated as the new natal.
If it is your chart, then maybe look to transits of angles and house changes to see if they seem to work by triggering events.

[hermetic]

thank's katydid, it is my boyfriends chart i was wondering about.

he's living abroad for 10 years and doesn't plan to return.

the most surprising this was that at first I guessed his asc to be virgo, later to find out he has taurus asc, but in his relocated chart he's asc is indeed virgo.

i knew his date of birth but not time so I toyed around with various ascendants and this one seemed to describe him best not just ascendant but planetary positions also. later he told me his time so i could calculate both natal and relocated accurately
his natal doesn't seem to do it and i stick to it because i had this relocation chart as a chart describing him perfectly even before I knew it, just as my guess. :o

[noideaaboutastro]

If the person has totally taken on their life in their new country, and has no plans to return, then often people will begin looking at their relocated as the new natal.
If it is your chart, then maybe look to transits of angles and house changes to see if they seem to work by triggering events.

What about people who have being living abroad for ages and ages and ages but plan to return:whistling:? What would they be represented by?
I'm still very much tied to the place I was born. Relocate me here? No thank you very much, I'm already here in body, don't need my natal chart to be transferred here as well:w00t:

[katydid]

What about people who have being living abroad for ages and ages and ages but plan to return:whistling:? What would they be represented by?
I'm still very much tied to the place I was born. Relocate me here? No thank you very much, I'm already here in body, don't need my natal chart to be transferred here as well:w00t:

Then I would do what is the norm, and always read your natal chart, but take a peek at the relocated angles as well.:cool:

[astrologer50]

What about people who have being living abroad for ages and ages and ages but plan to return:whistling:? What would they be represented by?
I'm still very much tied to the place I was born. Relocate me here? No thank you very much, I'm already here in body, don't need my natal chart to be transferred here as well:w00t:

Just use the natal but when looking at Solar return remember to use the new relocated place:innocent:

[iwonder]

I was born in one place, while my home where I grew up was in another place . Once I grew up (at least I thought I did, he-he), I moved to another country.

I believe natal chart for the place and time where one actually was born is the most important chart that is always with the person. It is a cosmic imprint that you may be able to mask, but not alter. After all, there was a reason why you chose to be born there and then.

Relocation charts are important in a way. Like an outfit that makes you behave in a certain way.

The place I was born is not too far from the place I grew up. These charts are still similar. When I moved to another country (with no intention to come back), my Sun/Mars moved to 12th house and Pluto came up to the Asc. They all are in the 8th house natally.

These 8th house influences are very strong. They never disappeared anywhere. I am even obsessed at times with 8th house matters.

But I've been very uncomfortable expressing myself. 8th house Sun doesn't make for the most outgoing person, but 12th house Sun is even less so. I felt isolated and confined, always acting from behind the scene (or my husband's back). I had to build my own world and convinced myself that I was happy. Not that it was very difficult, there are similarities between 8th and 12th house Suns, but by nature I am more social than 12th house Sun/Mars implies. My Sag Asc became Libra Asc with Pluto right on it, and poor Venus is also in the 12th. How outgoing is that?

I moved a few more times. For about three years we lived in an area I absolutely loved. I felt great there. I later looked at relocations: what a surprise! My Sun/Mars/Pluto moved to 1st house. Asc is in Virgo, and its ruler is also in the 1st. It was a tiny town, but my social life was booming, I studied for a new profession and got a job that I loved, my life was packed with experiences, I became a mother (I doubted I ever would), I discovered Astrology, I finally made a career choice (sure, it is 8th house related) and started college.

I didn't become a first-house-Sun person. But my Sun was easy to express there, and it felt goooood.

[katydid]

Relocation charts are important in a way. Like an outfit that makes you behave in a certain way.


But I've been very uncomfortable expressing myself. 8th house Sun doesn't make for the most outgoing person, but 12th house Sun is even less so. I felt isolated and confined, always acting from behind the scene (or my husband's back). I had to build my own world and convinced myself that I was happy. Not that it was very difficult, there are similarities between 8th and 12th house Suns, but by nature I am more social than 12th house Sun/Mars implies. My Sag Asc became Libra Asc with Pluto right on it, and poor Venus is also in the 12th. How outgoing is that?

I moved a few more times. For about three years we lived in an area I absolutely loved. I felt great there. I later looked at relocations: what a surprise! My Sun/Mars/Pluto moved to 1st house. Asc is in Virgo, and its ruler is also in the 1st. It was a tiny town, but my social life was booming, I studied for a new profession and got a job that I loved, my life was packed with experiences, I became a mother (I doubted I ever would), I discovered Astrology, I finally made a career choice (sure, it is 8th house related) and started college.

I didn't become a first-house-Sun person. But my Sun was easy to express there, and it felt goooood.

BRILLIANT ASSESSMENT ! You really nailed it I think. The natal is ALWAYS there as a framework, but it will be expressed different ways in different places. Your example of the difference between having 1st house vs 12th
expression is vital.
I experienced similar things when I moved about in my younger years. Looking back I was able to see how it affected my life. So in my heart I know that relocated charts do work. But only in relation to your natal framework. :sideways:

[waybread]

Absolutely! It is a common experience for people to move somewhere and feel better about themselves or worse about themselves; to expand into new areas of life, or to retreat into unhappy patterns. Hopefully the relocation chart can show what to expect.

A couple of years ago when my husband and I were ready to make a major move, I looked at relocation and astro*carto*graphy charts. One area that really interested me was on my Mars line, which natally is opposed by Saturn. Not wanting to engage in frustrating conflicts, we landed somewhere else, and it has worked out fine.

However, people do have to move a long distance away from their birth places to see a huge difference in planets' house locations.

[noideaaboutastro]

Well I have done a relocation chart. It is COMPLETELY different to my natal chart. I am not sure whether I have done it right. I added a couple hours to my birth time as that's what time it would have bieng where I live now.....or do I just go ahead and type in the place where I live but leave the birth time intact?

[katydid]

Well I have done a relocation chart. It is COMPLETELY different to my natal chart. I am not sure whether I have done it right. I added a couple hours to my birth time as that's what time it would have bieng where I live now.....or do I just go ahead and type in the place where I live but leave the birth time intact?

You keep everything the same but the place. Use the same birthtime, but replace the city.

[noideaaboutastro]

You keep everything the same but the place. Use the same birthtime, but replace the city.

Done :) . What aspects do I look at to determine what has changed? Do I look at the chart by itself and what aspects it makes or do I contrast every planet/house with the natal chart?

[katydid]

Done :) . What aspects do I look at to determine what has changed? Do I look at the chart by itself and what aspects it makes or do I contrast every planet/house with the natal chart?

There should be no change in planetary aspects. They would be the same as in your natal. What changes is the angles and the house placements. You look to these differences between your natal and relocated. Especially where your Sun/Moon are located now, and what your Asc and MC are and any new aspects to them.

[noideaaboutastro]

There should be no change in planetary aspects. They would be the same as in your natal. What changes is the angles and the house placements. You look to these differences between your natal and relocated. Especially where your Sun/Moon are located now, and what your Asc and MC are and any new aspects to them.

Really?! Because I just changed the birth place but didn't change the time but some of the planetary aspects have changed in the new chart. For instance, I now have a Sun square Moon.....:pouty:. Most of the planets have stayed the same but this one is different. This is possible, right? Because that's what Mr Astro is telling me anyway...

[katydid]

Really?! Because I just changed the birth place but didn't change the time but some of the planetary aspects have changed in the new chart. For instance, I now have a Sun square Moon.....:pouty:. Most of the planets have stayed the same but this one is different. This is possible, right? Because that's what Mr Astro is telling me anyway...

PM me your birth data.

[noideaaboutastro]

PM me your birth data.

Thanks I have PM'd you :).

I have finally figured out how the astro travel thing on astro.com works, and I've figured out maybe why I HATE this place where I live even though I've being living here for 15 years:ninja:. It just doesn't feel like home. On astro it says that this place is Moon MC Uranus AC - which I believe cannot be that pleasant to live in. Trust me my life is a soap opera which I would dearly like to stop being so dramatic. I experimented in every place in this country and nowhere seems to be pleasant to live here for me (which I kind of guessed anyway) although some places are better than others. I don't understand why I loved living back home though - maybe since I was a child things were good. But it's on my Mars IC. That would mean lots of fighting and things going wrong yet I never noticed any of that, it was very pleasant and lots of people loved me and cared about me and my parents didn't have any emotional disturbances.

My son though has crossing crossing Sun AC and some squigly line I believe it to be Moon Node MC and he seems to be loving it, which is how I would interpret that as well. Back where I was born my son has Venus/Mercury DC which should be very pleasant also. In short - I lose, he wins.

[Courtney Love]

You keep everything the same but the place. Use the same birthtime, but replace the city.


Wait, is this right? I thought you change the city and birthtime to match the Sun's location???

So if someone is born July 4th at 7pm in New york, and they move to San Diego, then their relocated birthchart would be July 4th 4pm. Is this wrong??

[katydid]

Wait, is this right? I thought you change the city and birthtime to match the Sun's location???

So if someone is born July 4th at 7pm in New york, and they move to San Diego, then their relocated birthchart would be July 4th 4pm. Is this wrong??



by David Dukelow and Jim Shawvan
[PDF]
RELOCATION CHARTS & RELOCATION ISSUES (http://astrocom.com/articles/infospecials/IRELX.pdf)


[Excerpt was deleted and replaced by the link to this article. Copied parts of over 100 words are not permitted in this Forum. It is always better to post a link. Moderator]

[Courtney Love]

Oh see that's important, they're saying not to change the Universal Time, not just the current time in that time zone. what bugs me about that is most programs ask for the current time, and figure out universal times for you. That could be confusing if people think the current time should stay the same.. when it must be changed.

[EJ53]

Katydid/Courtney Love,

As an example, is the following correct :-

When someone was born at 08.00am in New York on 14th July 2009; it was 13.00pm in London and 22.00 in Brisbane on 14th July.

So if that person later chooses to relocate to London, we draw up a birthchart for 13.00pm Local Time on 14th July 2009 with Lat/Long for London rather than New York........And if they relocate to Bisbane, we draw up a chart for 22.00 Local Time 14th July 2009 with Lat/Long for Brisbane rather than New York..............[I think this produces three charts with identical Moon positions but different house cusps, as all use the Universal Time of 12.00 noon....(13.00 pm adjusted for daylight saving time)]

However, if we use the astro.com "relocated chart" facility, we need only enter the Lat/Long for the relocated place (because the site adjusts the time automatically).

EJ:unsure:

[Courtney Love]

Katydid/Courtney Love,

As an example, is the following correct :-

When someone was born at 08.00am in New York on 14th July 2009; it was 13.00pm in London and 22.00 in Brisbane on 14th July.

So if that person later chooses to relocate to London, we draw up a birthchart for 13.00pm Local Time on 14th July 2009 with Lat/Long for London rather than New York........And if they relocate to Bisbane, we draw up a chart for 22.00 Local Time 14th July 2009 with Lat/Long for Brisbane rather than New York..............[I think this produces three charts with identical Moon positions but different house cusps, as all use the Universal Time of 12.00 noon....(13.00 pm adjusted for daylight saving time)]

However, if we use the astro.com "relocated chart" facility, we need only enter the Lat/Long for the relocated place (because the site adjusts the time automatically).

EJ:unsure:

yeah, this is how it works, although on astro.com all I enter is the time and they do everything, but thats not on the relocated chart, just the general natal charts.

I tend to note the sun's location, and make sure they match, rather than the Moon, but the bottom line is, aside from the ascendent, everything should be in the exact same degree as the natal

[EJ53]

yeah, this is how it works, although on astro.com all I enter is the time and they do everything, but thats not on the relocated chart, just the general natal charts.

I tend to note the sun's location, and make sure they match, rather than the Moon, but the bottom line is, aside from the ascendent, everything should be in the exact same degree as the natal

Thanks CL.........I get it now.......For relocation charts, we use the Lat/Long of the new location and the local time there which equates exactly to the actual Universal Time of our birth......So the planet locations in signs are unchanged, but the positions house cusps change.

[noideaaboutastro]

Thanks CL.........I get it now.......For relocation charts, we use the Lat/Long of the new location and the local time there which equates exactly to the actual Universal Time of our birth......So the planet locations in signs are unchanged, but the positions house cusps change.

Okay I get it, I was doing it right the first time. Will redo it again. Ta

[noideaaboutastro]

Oh well, look like my Sun goes into opposition and my asc goes into Capricorn.
Some of the aspects change too.
*shrug* I don't think I need astrology to tell me I don't fit well here.

[EJ53]

.....*shrug* I don't think I need astrology to tell me I don't fit well here.

Use it to tell you why you don't fit well there; where you would fit well; when to relocate; what will change; how you will feel about it and who you might become if you make the move. (My thanks to Kipling's "I keep six honest serving men"):sideways:

[noideaaboutastro]

There should be no change in planetary aspects. They would be the same as in your natal. What changes is the angles and the house placements. You look to these differences between your natal and relocated. Especially where your Sun/Moon are located now, and what your Asc and MC are and any new aspects to them.

Use it to tell you why you don't fit well there; where you would fit well; when to relocate; what will change; how you will feel about it and who you might become if you make the move. (My thanks to Kipling's "I keep six honest serving men"):sideways:

Just finding all this very confusing and hard, and when I ask for help it feels like as if I'm just asking questions without doing work as a member expressed themselves and just generally makes me feel gloomy. I am not saying this to argue with anyone, this is just how I feel, very frustrated and trying my best but as if I'm not getting anywhere. I'm not sure how to figure all those things out, that's why I come here for help :(.

All I can see is that my Asc is now in Capricorn - that one definately makes sense, people tend to see me as far more conservative than I really am. Um what else, MC is in Aquarius, once again sorry if I haven't read enough but I really don't know what it means! I mean, what does a career in Aquarius mean as opposed to a career in Scorpio which is in my natal chart? Does this mean I'll go prancing around doing humanitarian work suddenly because I'm here? Yes, I admit, that is the sort of work I am attracted to but I thought it was more about my personality type than living here. My sun is now in 1st house which is in opposition to my Sun in 7th house, and my Moon is now obviously in the 4th house as opposed to the 10th house. The fact that my moon and sun are in opposition means I will be forced to become something I am not, am I right?

Sorry if this seems if I haven't done my homework, I really am finding all of this confusing!

[EJ53]

.....I feel very frustrated.....trying my best but as if I'm not getting anywhere. I'm not sure how to figure all those things out, that's why I come here for help.

And we want to help Noeye, because we can see how hard you're trying to understand........But, most of us are "visual"......We need to see the birth and relocation charts in order to steer you correctly.

.....MC is in Aquarius....what does a career in Aquarius mean as opposed to a career in Scorpio which is in my natal chart?

The ruling planet of the sign on the MC (and those in it's line of dispositorship) indicate the kind of career which might be right for you.....The natal rulers of your MC are Mars/Pluto, but the relocated rulers are Saturn/Uranus......So, the career that's right for you in your natal location is likely to be very different from the one which is best in the re-location.........(But, what that career might be can only be determined by looking at the whole chart).

My sun is now in 1st house which is in opposition to my Sun in 7th house

In the eyes of others, a 1st house sun "takes centre stage" (Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones is an excellent example).........whilst a 7th house sun shines best through a partner.

.....my Moon is now in the 4th house as opposed to the 10th house.

So, you'll feel more emotionally secure at home (4th) than at work (10th)......whilst the reverse might be the case in your natal location.

The fact that my moon and sun are in opposition means I will be forced to become something I am not, am I right?

Not "forced"...........more comfortable doing what might be uncomfortable in your natal location......and vice-versa........What it really indicates is that the people/culture in each location are very different, so your normal behaviour would be regarded differently by them........For example, a female might feel comfortable walking down a public street in the UK with her lower legs uncovered, but very uncomfortable doing so in a country that requires women to cover themselves fully in public.

EJ:smile:

[iwonder]

Just finding all this very confusing and hard

Noideaaboutastro,

Don't get discouraged. It is frustrating at times to see that there is no one answer and too many factors to consider.

Hate to say this but homework is the best way to go.

As far as relocation charts, your MC moving Aquarius may mean that this type of career will be easier to pursue at the new place, or Aquarian characteristics in you will be best applied towards career, social standing, or something you will be known for.

[noideaaboutastro]

Big huge thank you!

So basically the sun represents how you shine, the moon represents where you are secure, and the oppositions just represent completely different cultures (that one makes sense!)

Now let's scrap everything and admit I did half of it WRONG:unsure:. I got mixed up with the two different relocation charts that I did:pinched:. So my natal MC is actually in Capricorn. And my ASC here is in Taurus......hmmmm I always felt Capricorn fitted better but okay.....

I'll post up my natal chart and then my relocation chart and see if anybody can see anything else different.......because the sun moon, asc and mc is about all I can figure out properly really.
And we want to help Noeye, because we can see how hard you're trying to understand........But, most of us are "visual"......We need to see the birth and relocation charts in order to steer you correctly.



The ruling planet of the sign on the MC (and those in it's line of dispositorship) indicate the kind of career which might be right for you.....The natal rulers of your MC are Mars/Pluto, but the relocated rulers are Saturn/Uranus......So, the career that's right for you in your natal location is likely to be very different from the one which is best in the re-location.........(But, what that career might be can only be determined by looking at the whole chart).



In the eyes of others, a 1st house sun "takes centre stage" (Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones is an excellent example).........whilst a 7th house sun shines best through a partner.



So, you'll feel more emotionally secure at home (4th) than at work (10th)......whilst the reverse might be the case in your natal location.



Not "forced"...........more comfortable doing what might be uncomfortable in your natal location......and vice-versa........What it really indicates is that the people/culture in each location are very different, so your normal behaviour would be regarded differently by them........For example, a female might feel comfortable walking down a public street in the UK with her lower legs uncovered, but very uncomfortable doing so in a country that requires women to cover themselves fully in public.

EJ:smile:

Noideaaboutastro,

Don't get discouraged. It is frustrating at times to see that there is no one answer and too many factors to consider.

Hate to say this but homework is the best way to go.

As far as relocation charts, your MC moving Aquarius may mean that this type of career will be easier to pursue at the new place, or Aquarian characteristics in you will be best applied towards career, social standing, or something you will be known for.


[Mod edit - to move the brief, new response above the old quotes.]

[EJ53]

....I did half of it WRONG....posted up my natal chart and my relocation chart......

This relocation chart is still not correct either, Noeye...........If the Moon is at 14.33.00 degrees Virgo in the natal chart, it will also be at 14.33.00 degrees Virgo in the relocated chart.

If you are using astro.com.......Free Chart Selection......Extended Chart Selection......(type of chart you want) Relocation Chart.........Click to draw chart......Enter Natal Chart Birth Data........Scroll down the natal chart screen which then appears...to..."Click to choose a different reference place"......untick "use birth details" box.........enter new location.....Click "continue" to produce relocated chart......Confirm moon position is same in both natal and relocated chart.

[noideaaboutastro]

This relocation chart is still not correct either, Noeye...........If the Moon is at 14.33.00 degrees Virgo in the natal chart, it will also be at 14.33.00 degrees Virgo in the relocated chart.

If you are using astro.com.......Free Chart Selection......Extended Chart Selection......(type of chart you want) Relocation Chart.........Click to draw chart......Enter Natal Chart Birth Data........Scroll down the natal chart screen which then appears...to..."Click to choose a different reference place"......untick "use birth details" box.........enter new location.....Click "continue" to produce relocated chart......Confirm moon position is same in both natal and relocated chart.

:pinched::pinched::pinched::pinched:AAAAAAAAAAAA


Okay I hope I did it correctly. Here is what I got:

[EJ53]

Okay I hope I did it correctly. Here is what I got:

Everything is now A-OK, Houston.........We are on our way:biggrin:

Here's the significant changes that I see (Natal Chart : Relocated Chart) :-

Chart Ruler - Pluto in Scorpio/12th : Mars in Pisces/11th
Location of opposing stelliums - 2nd/8th : 9th/3rd
Virgo Moon - 10th : 5th
Sun/Jupiter - 7th : 2nd
Pluto - 12th : 7th
Mars - 3rd : 11th
North Node - 4th : 12th

Also....Nothing is intercepted in the relocated chart......But natally, Aquarius/Leo is intercepted in 3rd/9th; Libra is duplicated on the cusps of 11th/12th houses and Aries is duplicated on the cusps of 5th/6th houses.

So, now the "homework" Noeye........How would you interpret these changes?

[Note : Think of the chart ruler as being the planet that you "see as yourself"/identify with most........Natally, "you R pluto in scorpio/12th" but, with relocation, "you R Mars in Pisces/11th".]

EJ:smile:

[noideaaboutastro]

Everything is now A-OK, Houston.........We are on our way:biggrin:

Here's the significant changes that I see (Natal Chart : Relocated Chart) :-

Chart Ruler - Pluto in Scorpio/12th : Mars in Pisces/11th
Location of opposing stelliums - 2nd/8th : 9th/3rd
Virgo Moon - 10th : 5th
Sun/Jupiter - 7th : 2nd
Pluto - 12th : 7th
Mars - 3rd : 11th
North Node - 4th : 12th

Also....Nothing is intercepted in the relocated chart......But natally, Aquarius/Leo is intercepted in 3rd/9th; Libra is duplicated on the cusps of 11th/12th houses and Aries is duplicated on the cusps of 5th/6th houses.

So, now the "homework" Noeye........How would you interpret these changes?

[Note : Think of the chart ruler as being the planet that you "see as yourself"/identify with most........Natally, "you R pluto in scorpio/12th" but, with relocation, "you R Mars in Pisces/11th".]

EJ:smile:

What?!:unsure: You're making me do homework:mad::mad:?!?!?!

*throws books on floor, stomps foot, pick them up, stomps off to do homework* (jks of course)

Lol. This may take me some time.

[noideaaboutastro]

Chart Ruler - Pluto in Scorpio/12th : Mars in Pisces/11th
Location of opposing stelliums - 2nd/8th : 9th/3rd
Virgo Moon - 10th : 5th
Sun/Jupiter - 7th : 2nd
Pluto - 12th : 7th
Mars - 3rd : 11th
North Node - 4th : 12th

Well natally I am a bit of a freak - I mean, who has their chart ruler in the not on Pluto, but also Scorpio which is ruled by Pluto, and also in the 12th house, which is ruled by Scorpio:unsure:. Okay, so now my chart ruler is in Mars in Pisces. Well Pisces has nothing to do with Mars, it's supposed to be Neptune, and nothing to do with the 11th house. So maybe I become kinda less intense here and become more friendship orientated....

Opposing stelliums - well here I'll feel like my communication with close associates is hampered by my need to travel???

Here I am more emotional rather than detached and calculating according to my Moon.

I also express myself and have more luck with money rather than relationships.

Pluto - signifies that I reserve my freakisheness for close relationships here.

Seriously......I have not much idea:unsure:......

[noideaaboutastro]

Also....Nothing is intercepted in the relocated chart......But natally, Aquarius/Leo is intercepted in 3rd/9th; Libra is duplicated on the cusps of 11th/12th houses and Aries is duplicated on the cusps of 5th/6th houses.


:pouty: WHat did you say? What is intercepted? What is duplicated? I am so confused:pinched::w00t:

[EJ53]

Seriously......I have not much idea

Actually, you gave a good analysis.

Your relocated ruler (Mars) is weak by both sign and house; squares the sun and is constantly engaged in sorting out the conflict/opposition between Saturn/Venus.......So, as you say, this is probably not the best location for you.............But if you moved to a place where Aquarius was on the Ascendant with Uranus in 11th house, life would be much more exciting and Pluto might be well-placed to boost your career.

.....What is intercepted? What is duplicated? I am so confused

Nothing is intercepted/duplicated in the relocation chart........So, ignore it for now.........However, if possible, try not to relocate to a place that produces a chart having the same sign on more than one house cusp.

EJ:smile:

[noideaaboutastro]

Actually, you gave a good analysis.

Your relocated ruler (Mars) is weak by both sign and house; squares the sun and is constantly engaged in sorting out the conflict/opposition between Saturn/Venus.......So, as you say, this is probably not the best location for you.............But if you moved to a place where Aquarius was on the Ascendant with Uranus in 11th house, life would be much more exciting and Pluto might be well-placed to boost your career.



Nothing is intercepted/duplicated in the relocation chart........So, ignore it for now.........However, if possible, try not to relocate to a place that produces a chart having the same sign on more than one house cusp.

EJ:smile:

Hi EJ. Sorry to ask this of you but I'm still a little bit confused. Can you tell me what you are talking about more and explain it to me a bit more in reference to my chart? I'm very new at this and it's probably better for me to see how it goes the first time.

Also, are there certain areas that can be seen in relocation charts? Such as, career, relationships, children etc? Or is it just general happiness?

[EJ53]

....Can you tell me what you are talking about more and explain it to me a bit more in reference to my chart?

Ok Noeye......Interceptions/duplications are shown in your natal chart as follows :-

The signs of Aquarius and Leo do not appear on any house cusp......So, they are "intercepted signs"......(And, if there were any planets in these signs, they would be "intercepted planets").

The 11th and 12th house cusps both have Libra on the cusp.......So, they are "duplicated houses"..........The 5th and 6th houses are also duplicated, because Aries is on the cusp of both.

Individuals cannot fully express the positive qualities of intercepted signs and planets until they learn (through hard experience in life) how to do so.....Which few people ever do until they are well into old age......Hence, if you can remove interceptions through relocation, it probably makes sense to do so.

Duplicated houses exist only in charts containing intercepted signs, but tend to be easier to spot.......So, they alert us to the less obvious interceptions that might otherwise go unnoticed.
_______________________________________________

.....are there certain areas that can be seen in relocation charts? Such as, career, relationships, children etc?

Yes.......Look upon the relocated chart as the natal chart of the "New You"....and interpret it in exactly the way you would interpret any natal chart.

EJ:smile:

[R4VEN]

I have read through this thread, and have shared much of noideaaboutastro's frustration and misunderstanding. However, have now managed to crack it, I think, using astro.com's relocation chart facility.

As someone who still lives less than 50 miles from where I was born, I have had to find a guines pig on which to research this topic. I have done a relocation chart for my niece, who has lived in the UK for around 10 years, and although she travels back to Oz regularly, her visits just reaffirm for her that she `belongs' in the UK.
Her charts from where she was born to relocate her in Bristol UK almost totally flip her chart, so that her huge Virgo stellium is now in the 12th, rather than the 7th.

I can certaily `see' her true nature (at least, as I observe her) in her natal chart from Australia, but the changes with relocation are interesting, I think. On her relocation chart, certain things emerge, some of which are:


Chiron in the 7th, rather than the 1st - all the men with whom she has been involved while in UK have `problems', often with backgrounds of severe abuse. This did not happen when she was in Aust.
Saturn in 8th, ruling IC - every time she comes back `home' she feels frustrated and blocked, usually by her father, whom she says does not understand her choices, even though she desperately wants his approval. (Saturn still forms the apex to her Yod, so this focus now is being projected firmly towards the IC/roots)
Uranus (part of the Yod) now closely conj ASC, so she is seen as being rebellious and non-conformist - particularly by her father and brother, both of whom are quite conservative
and lastly, from Sag MC, where she was always travelling, and forever searching for `something', her relocated MC is Cancer, and she appears much more at home where she is in UK, and has no difficulty in creating work. She also works from home.

[noideaaboutastro]

Ok Noeye......Interceptions/duplications are shown in your natal chart as follows :-

The signs of Aquarius and Leo do not appear on any house cusp......So, they are "intercepted signs"......(And, if there were any planets in these signs, they would be "intercepted planets").

The 11th and 12th house cusps both have Libra on the cusp.......So, they are "duplicated houses"..........The 5th and 6th houses are also duplicated, because Aries is on the cusp of both.

Individuals cannot fully express the positive qualities of intercepted signs and planets until they learn (through hard experience in life) how to do so.....Which few people ever do until they are well into old age......Hence, if you can remove interceptions through relocation, it probably makes sense to do so.

Duplicated houses exist only in charts containing intercepted signs, but tend to be easier to spot.......So, they alert us to the less obvious interceptions that might otherwise go unnoticed.
_______________________________________________



Yes.......Look upon the relocated chart as the natal chart of the "New You"....and interpret it in exactly the way you would interpret any natal chart.

EJ:smile:

Thanks EJ. A bit hard to understand and decipher for me but I'll try!

[noideaaboutastro]

I have read through this thread, and have shared much of noideaaboutastro's frustration and misunderstanding. However, have now managed to crack it, I think, using astro.com's relocation chart facility.

As someone who still lives less than 50 miles from where I was born, I have had to find a guines pig on which to research this topic. I have done a relocation chart for my niece, who has lived in the UK for around 10 years, and although she travels back to Oz regularly, her visits just reaffirm for her that she `belongs' in the UK.
Her charts from where she was born to relocate her in Bristol UK almost totally flip her chart, so that her huge Virgo stellium is now in the 12th, rather than the 7th.

I can certaily `see' her true nature (at least, as I observe her) in her natal chart from Australia, but the changes with relocation are interesting, I think. On her relocation chart, certain things emerge, some of which are:


Chiron in the 7th, rather than the 1st - all the men with whom she has been involved while in UK have `problems', often with backgrounds of severe abuse. This did not happen when she was in Aust.
Saturn in 8th, ruling IC - every time she comes back `home' she feels frustrated and blocked, usually by her father, whom she says does not understand her choices, even though she desperately wants his approval. (Saturn still forms the apex to her Yod, so this focus now is being projected firmly towards the IC/roots)
Uranus (part of the Yod) now closely conj ASC, so she is seen as being rebellious and non-conformist - particularly by her father and brother, both of whom are quite conservative
and lastly, from Sag MC, where she was always travelling, and forever searching for `something', her relocated MC is Cancer, and she appears much more at home where she is in UK, and has no difficulty in creating work. She also works from home.


May I borrow your analysis and try and apply it to my chart? Sorry but I'm still frustrated:w00t:! lol


Chiron is natally in 8th but here comes into 3rd house. However I don't think my Chiron is actually connected to relationships but to my experiences in life. Could it be that here I experience pain with neighbours and close associates? Or that the fact that I'm an only child gets whipped up even more?
Here my IC is in Cancer, which means I should feel more at home. However I do not. Can anybody help me understand why I don't feel at home here when my IC is in Cancer?
TIA)).

EJ, I was also a bit perplexed at what you said about the 'new' you. I thought that the natal chart still had overwhelming importance, and the relocation chart wasn't really what was being seeing but just a different coloured lense being put on??? Sort of to that effect, no?

[EJ53]

I have shared much of noideaaboutastro's frustration and misunderstanding. However, have now managed to crack it, I think, using astro.com's relocation chart facility.

Yes, I've kicked over a few tables too.......Astro.com make it easy but, otherwise, manually adjusting for time zones and daylight savings can be :andy:

I can certainly `see' my daughter's true nature (at least, as I observe her) in her natal chart from Australia, but the changes with relocation are interesting, I think.

Like you R4VEN, I know only one person who has relocated far enough from their birthplace for it to make a difference........So, it's hard to get experience/practice in working with relocated charts......However, there seems to be a few astrologers specialising in this service on the internet....And I wouldn't be surprised if the demand for it increases in the future......(if thinking about emigrating to another country, I'd certainly be prepared to pay for a Relocation Report from a competent astrologer).


...Saturn in 8th, ruling IC - every time she comes back `home' she feels frustrated and blocked.......Uranus now closely conj ASC, so she is seen as being rebellious and non-conformist - particularly by her father and brother, both of whom are quite conservative

But, how do these manifest in England/the relocation?.......Do they help or hinder her here?

.....Chiron is natally in 8th but here comes into 3rd house. However I don't think my Chiron is actually connected to relationships but to my experiences in life. Could it be that here I experience pain with neighbours and close associates? Or that the fact that I'm an only child gets whipped up even more?

Chiron in Gemini makes us feel "poor at communicating", and therefore socially inept.......in the 3rd, it may indeed be seen in problems with neighbours, etc.....And, in another location it may appear in a different way.....But, wherever you reside, the solution remains the same.....Improving your communication skills will enhance your relationships/experiences/life.

....Here my IC is in Cancer, which means I should feel more at home. However I do not. Can anybody help me understand why I don't feel at home here when my IC is in Cancer?

Maybe the discomfort comes from the ruler of the 4th being Moon in Virgo/5th...........where it needs to have creative work and be financially secure to feel comfortable.

EJ, I was also a bit perplexed at what you said about the 'new' you. I thought that the natal chart still had overwhelming importance, and the relocation chart wasn't really what was being seeing but just a different coloured lense being put on??? Sort of to that effect, no?

Yes, the natal chart over-rides.......We cannot change our character by relocating (That requires years of experience and effort).......But relocation does change the way our character is perceived by others.......They see a "new us" (through the eyes of a new culture)........which is reflected by our natal chart planets/characteristics now being in different houses....We haven't changed the natal issues in our chart - only the experiences/people through which we shall encounter them.

Thanks EJ. A bit hard to understand and decipher for me but I'll try!

You don't need to understand interceptions.......Just avoid relocating to a place that produces a chart with the same sign on more than one house cusp.

EJ:smile:

[noideaaboutastro]

Thanks EJ! That makes sense now!

[noideaaboutastro]

Thanks EJ. That makes a lot of sense, tanks!

[astrologer50]

noideaaboutastrol,

....Here my IC is in Cancer, which means I should feel more at home. However I do not. Can anybody help me understand why I don't feel at home here when my IC is in Cancer?
EJ53,
Maybe the discomfort comes from the ruler of the 4th being Moon in Virgo/5th...........where it needs to have creative work and be financially secure to feel comfortable.


I know I've come very late on this thread and just read it through for first time. Just a couple of thoughts regarding the above then...

Your Virgo Moon and cancer IC both these signs to me are worriers, and Virgo is conj 6th house cusp (within 5' is considered functioning in next house) whereas natally it's in 11th (Equal house system which I use)

Wherever your moon is placed is where we seek nurturance and natally it's from friends, groups etc and is also involved in grand trine & kite but it's also restlessness twice over 1) cos it's mutable 2) cos it's moon.

In relocated chart it's now operating in 6th house ie; co-workers and type of work you do, daily routines and being of service to people.So this is where you would look for nurturance and be restless and that restlessness spills over into home roots IC. I have moon ruling 6th and simply could not function if there were lots of bitching and backstabbing going on or lots of nastiness and I bet your the same, it would have much bigger impact on your emotions.

In Equal house cancer rules your 8th house and is placed in 11th. Also in Equal house we don't have interceptions, each house cusp is the same as Asc.

Can't quite make out if you have actually done this relocation or whether you are still considering it?

There is a huge difference in Scorpio and Aries rising in fact they are quincunxed signs ie; 150' away from each other. Scorpio is a very private deeply analytical sign and plays its cards very close to it's chest, whereas Aries is straight upfront in your face and not afraid to say it, soon to flare up and down, very impatient and impulsive and very much and open book. Are you saying to me that people now see you as Aries rather than Scorpio?? Have you really become extreme opposite?

Last but not least Virgo Moon in relocated chart is quincunxed new Asc again emotionally not showing what's inside perhaps and finding it awkward to express and maybe they don't come out as intended?

[noideaaboutastro]

noideaaboutastrol,


EJ53,


I know I've come very late on this thread and just read it through for first time. Just a couple of thoughts regarding the above then...

Your Virgo Moon and cancer IC both these signs to me are worriers, and Virgo is conj 6th house cusp (within 5' is considered functioning in next house) whereas natally it's in 11th (Equal house system which I use)

Wherever your moon is placed is where we seek nurturance and natally it's from friends, groups etc and is also involved in grand trine & kite but it's also restlessness twice over 1) cos it's mutable 2) cos it's moon.

In relocated chart it's now operating in 6th house ie; co-workers and type of work you do, daily routines and being of service to people.So this is where you would look for nurturance and be restless and that restlessness spills over into home roots IC. I have moon ruling 6th and simply could not function if there were lots of bitching and backstabbing going on or lots of nastiness and I bet your the same, it would have much bigger impact on your emotions.

In Equal house cancer rules your 8th house and is placed in 11th. Also in Equal house we don't have interceptions, each house cusp is the same as Asc.

Can't quite make out if you have actually done this relocation or whether you are still considering it?

There is a huge difference in Scorpio and Aries rising in fact they are quincunxed signs ie; 150' away from each other. Scorpio is a very private deeply analytical sign and plays its cards very close to it's chest, whereas Aries is straight upfront in your face and not afraid to say it, soon to flare up and down, very impatient and impulsive and very much and open book. Are you saying to me that people now see you as Aries rather than Scorpio?? Have you really become extreme opposite?

Last but not least Virgo Moon in relocated chart is quincunxed new Asc again emotionally not showing what's inside perhaps and finding it awkward to express and maybe they don't come out as intended?

Sorry for late reply, I see it's October now but I've only just returned to the forum. Astrologer50 and everybody else, I don't mean to be rude, you guys have really helped me out with this relocation stuff but I still find it hard to understand.

I will do a brief run down of some things that have happened recently. I've just come back from overseas, and I cannot explain how much I felt relieved and happy there, like I was free to be myself again. So I don't have any more doubts that right now where I live is the wrong place for me and I need to move as soon as I finish my degree (which is next year). Things do not go well for me in this part of the world.

Astrologer50, could you please let me know where I am going wrong with drawing up my chart if the houses aren't right? This is probably the most complex part of astrology for me for some reason, it's just hard to get my head around. I hope I am understanding things correctly, were you trying to say that where I live I will not feel nurtured and loved? This is exactly how I feel and it was exactly stark opposite as to how I felt overseas. Also, my relationship with my parents was honestly speaking always abusive where I live, I went overseas and we actually got mildly along! (not completely along, but we were civil and sort of loving). I spent half the night crying to my mother about how depressed I was about being back here and I never even talk to her, that's how much our relationship has improved.

[yelena234]

I have read that we don't need Relocation Astrology because we can make Solar Return for new country and new city.

As I know we are born only once and not more times, what Relocation Chart shows. Why do two jobs if we can do just one?

I have lived in abroad and all my Solar Returns for there did work.

Y-

[waybread]

I think that solar return and relocation charts show very different things.

A solar return chart is a kind of transit chart, and is meant simply to indicate your year ahead. A relocation chart says something about how you change as a result of living in a new location. Generally people have to move a fair distance away from their birthplace to see much difference between their natal and relocation charts, unless they have some angles or planets that are right on a sign or house cusp.

Another type of chart (map actually) of interest is astro*carto*graphy or Astromap [available at www.astro.com (http://www.astro.com) under "special charts" or "AstroClick Travel"], which shows how you can move along planetary or angle lines in order to find a good place to live, or even take a vacation.

[Courtney Love]

I have read that we don't need Relocation Astrology because we can make Solar Return for new country and new city.

As I know we are born only once and not more times, what Relocation Chart shows. Why do two jobs if we can do just one?

I have lived in abroad and all my Solar Returns for there did work.

Y-

A Solar return is like a birthday chart, it starts around your birthday, and shows the year's influences. If I have my solar return in New York, and 3 weeks later move to Seattle, I can't draw up a new solar return chart relocated to Seattle, because your solar return can't be "born" twice. When people do relocation charts it shows influences in that area for as long as you're there. 5 months, 5 years. so it's really a very different thing from a Solar return chart.