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piscesascendant
06-03-2009, 01:14 PM
I was researching the signs and came across some information I hadn't considered before. I was aware to an extent that Aries (ruled by Mars) was a "warrior" sign, but what I hadn't realized was that Libra is considered the "other military sign". Essentially, Aries is more the lower ranks of the military (I don't know the ranking system in the military), and Libra is more along the lines of the 4-star General (or is it as high as 5-star General?). Thought that was interesting. Makes sense to me in the sense that the General has obviously paid his or her dues in combat, but at that level where a lot of decision-making occurs, the symbols and insignias take on, in addition to longetivity, service, and respect, an almost.... I hesitate to use this word....an almost "decorative" effect, which seems to tie in with Libra. Aries is more the grunt work actually being done, Libra seems to have passed that stage and is more oriented toward managing the operations, although being Aries' opposite, knows exactly what it is like to have been in combat.

Any other thoughts?

Arian Maverick
06-03-2009, 01:56 PM
This has been discussed elsewhere on the forums, although I don't recall the creation of an entire thread dedicated to the subject. As one may surmise by my pronounced Arian influence, I am not particularly pleased by your description, although it has been in accordance to my experience--somewhat. I have no ties to the military, and neither does anyone in my immediate circle of friends and acquaintances. However, I find myself doing much of the "grunt work" for other people who often direct my efforts towards their ends. The most recent example of which was a Scorpio Sun/Libra Moon, who had several other planets in Libra, if my memory serves me correctly. He is more "decorated" than me, having earned several scholarships and admissions into an Ivy League university, yet this is primarily because he applied himself towards these ends, allowing his "underlings" to attend to the tedious but necessary details of the organization's maintenance, of which he was president. It is not my intention to imply that all Librans or all "general" type figures are like him--only that I have personal experience with the specified power dynamics of these signs.

I would like to note that I have a heavily afflicted Aries stellium, and the affliction is from Saturn/Neptune in Capricorn in the tenth house. Thus, I have major karma with this type of authority structure. I doubt this is a general Arian trait.

Arian Maverick

CHRISTINE77
06-03-2009, 06:05 PM
I know Dwight Eisenhower was a Libra and a very good general. The only thing I wonder about is their decision making abilities. They tend to waffle a lot until they come up to the right decision and can be TOO diplomatic. For example Jimmy Carter definitely waffled too much about the hostages in Iran. On the other hand, we didn't get into a war. I think Librans make better courtesans and diplomats than generals.

bluemascara
06-03-2009, 07:28 PM
Its strange to me that aries would be in the lower ranks, being that aries does not like to serve.

katydid
06-03-2009, 07:53 PM
Its strange to me that aries would be in the lower ranks, being that aries does not like to serve.

They don't like to serve, but they make good soldiers in a battle and on missions. They are brave, heroic oftentimes, and they get the job done, no questions asked. But they don't always follow the rules, and they do not make nicey nice with their superiors. They like to do things themselves, their way, so they are great in emergencies, but not so great when things are boring and calm because they often 'lead' others into mischievious actions and mischief.

asickleraries
06-03-2009, 10:04 PM
Perhaps it's more of a Lieutenant/General type deal? Aries like to command, rather than follow, but can be trigger happy- not necessarily too wise for a position so high as a general.

R4VEN
06-04-2009, 06:33 AM
They don't like to serve, but they make good soldiers in a battle and on missions. They are brave, heroic oftentimes, and they get the job done, no questions asked. But they don't always follow the rules, and they do not make nicey nice with their superiors. They like to do things themselves, their way, so they are great in emergencies, but not so great when things are boring and calm because they often 'lead' others into mischievious actions and mischief. Perhaps Aries make good mercenaries, as in career soldiers. They'd enjoy the continual stimulation. One of my brothers did National Service during the Vietnam war, although he never saw active duty. He became obsessed with soldiering, to the point of being a bit peculiar. He has Aries Sun & Asc. I was very surprised when he turned down the army's offer of a proper `job' as a soldier. As a child he was always fighting with someone - usually me!

My Libran son (also with Mars in Libra) is also more than a little interested in things to do with combat, but more on the level of tactics, and weapons and honour, and the true philosophy of fighting. He's a thinker, and not a grunt. He could never kill anyone, but I reckon given the right circumstances he could give orders for others to do the killing. He tells me that there is a very dark side to Libran energy, perhaps to be found underlying all that `we must do the right thing' palaver.

piscesascendant
06-04-2009, 09:55 AM
When I wrote this, none of it was meant as disrespectful to Arians or laudatory of Librans. Simply staing what I researched. I myself have Aries intercepting in my first house and libra intercepting in my 7th, with Chiron in Aries Pluto in Libra. I can feel the influences of both. "Grunt" was not meant as a derogatory, simply a descriptive. Speaking of Jimmy Carter, I don't think the military would put the fullest confidence in him today as a leader.

waybread
06-04-2009, 11:21 PM
I have read that some famous generals have their sun in Libra, but how much research went into this statement, I am not sure.

I think we have to take a wide view of each sign. Libra can be very concerned with fairness. Injustice provokes a sense of imbalence, which then has to be rectified for problems to be solved. I imagine Libran concern with equity could find a military expression if a Libran's country were invaded.

But, you surely need to look at where Mars is placed in a military person's chart. For officers, I would also look at Saturn.

R4VEN
06-05-2009, 03:05 AM
But, you surely need to look at where Mars is placed in a military person's chart. For officers, I would also look at Saturn. That's a really good point, waybread.
My military-obsessed brother has natal Mars (late in Aquarius) inconjunct his Libran Chiron. (He was an officer when in the Australian army - he also has Saturn in Cancer squaring both his Aries sun and Asc.)
My interested-in-combat-tactics son has Chiron (only just in Taurus) opposite his Libran Moon.

And quoting Barbara Hand Clow from her book on Chiron:

"Mars aspecting Chiron natally indicates a deep association with the sacred warrior archetype. Mars is the activation of the.......male aggressive principle in the natal chart, and aspects to Chiron spiritualize the issue."

I seem to have a habit of bringing Chiron into my posts on these threads, but I believe there's much more to everything than at first meets the eye.
Food for thought I hope.

waybread
06-05-2009, 03:54 AM
Hey, Nuthin' wrong with bringing in Chiron!

Librans can also be combatants in non-military settings. I realize that sun-sign Librans are reputed to be indecisive [seeing clearly both sides of an issue] and lazy [liking those scales to be in balance.] But watch out if they think that they or something/someone they care about is being treated unfairly!

R4VEN
06-05-2009, 04:09 AM
Librans can also be combatants in non-military settings. I realize that sun-sign Librans are reputed to be indecisive [seeing clearly both sides of an issue] and lazy [liking those scales to be in balance.] But watch out if they think that they or something/someone they care about is being treated unfairly! Absolutely and totally!! I agree wholeheartedly.

This is sometimes the dilemma I have with Librans, in that I think I know them, understand them, and then off they go about something they feel is `wrong' in their universe! And no-one is more dog-with-a-bone than a Libran with an issue to fight over, and they can become so irrational over their particular belief. Perhaps this is what gets expressed in a military setting.

katydid
06-05-2009, 05:39 AM
My late father was a Libra sun and rising, and was a very successful lawyer.
He was also a political activist and a wonderful defense attorney. His Libran energy was very competitive when in trial, and he had an amazing ability to charm everyone, lay low, then come out for the kill towards the end of the trial. The other side never saw it coming. And judges always liked him, as did the juries.
He also rooted for his under dog clients, and at times I wondered how he rationalized freeing some of his guilty clients. He was adamant that most of them had horrible family lives, and never had an equal chance at success.
So he fought tooth and nail for them, for justice, and against the police. He really disliked the police and thought they were inherently unfair.

R4VEN
06-05-2009, 06:36 AM
My late father was a Libra sun and rising, and was a very successful lawyer.
He was also a political activist and a wonderful defense attorney. His Libran energy was very competitive when in trial, and he had an amazing ability to charm everyone, lay low, then come out for the kill towards the end of the trial. The other side never saw it coming. And judges always liked him, as did the juries.
He also rooted for his under dog clients, and at times I wondered how he rationalized freeing some of his guilty clients. He was adamant that most of them had horrible family lives, and never had an equal chance at success.
So he fought tooth and nail for them, for justice, and against the police. He really disliked the police and thought they were inherently unfair. That is such an articulate (and honouring) description of the Fighting Libran, katydid!! To fight by making use of the law is a very Libran thing to do.

I showed your post to my Libran son, and he said: "Yep, that pretty much describes how it works." (He's currently in the process of making a couple of swords out of wooden dowel covered by soft and pliable insulating material so that he and his little son can engage in play-fights - an activity which they both really enjoy!!!)

katydid
06-05-2009, 06:51 AM
That is such an articulate (and honouring) description of the Fighting Libran, katydid!! To fight by making use of the law is a very Libran thing to do.

I showed your post to my Libran son, and he said: "Yep, that pretty much describes how it works." (He's currently in the process of making a couple of swords out of wooden dowel covered by soft and pliable insulating material so that he and his little son can engage in play-fights - an activity which they both really enjoy!!!)

I am thrilled to hear he and his son are having some fun fights. And I am especially happy to hear that they are spending more quality time together.
:)
My Aries husband and Aries son used to love to wrestle and to play fight. They used to choreograph 'fake' fight scenes where they would fight like in the movies, where you make it look real, and fake everyone out.

waybread
06-08-2009, 02:01 AM
Fencing sounds like an ideal Libra activity. Modern astrologers do associate Libra with the 7th house, which concerns "open enemies" as well as long-term lovers and partners. As for marriage, well, we know how that can go!

Law is traditionally related to the 9th house, but I see that legal-minded sparring of wits as very Libran/7th house.

Oh, BTW, my husband of 13 years has his sun in Libra.