How planets can bring name, fame and glory to you.

[yashkaran]

Hello everyone....this is my very first thread where i m expressing something that i feel is near truth. i want you to share your experiences about it..........

Every one aspires to attain name and fame in life and for that in my opinion the most important planet is Sun however i have noticed that powerful Venus placed in ascendant also brings recognition and glory very quickly. the placement of malefic in 11th house. the placement of mercury in 4th house or mercury sun in 10th house, the placement of moon in 9th house, mars in 3rd or tenth house, jupiter in 1st, 4th, 7th or 10th from ascendant.

In addition to that i have noticed that the relation between 1st , 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th and 10th lords in any of these houses proves miraculous for earning name and fame in life.

I have noticed in several horoscopes that jupiter in libra makes one very intelligent and the placement of it in 7th house brings good luck.

full moon in 10th house also brings glory. I have seen it that whenever jupiter is in sagittarius or cancer in that case if Venus enters into 4th house the native not only earns glory but also lot of power in life.

but for gain of glory the promise from one planet is not enough rather there should be 3 or more than 3 conditions to expect name and fame in life.

Please do give your feedback and comments on the same.

Yashkaran Sharma
http://zodiac.futurepointindia.com/ (http://zodiac.futurepointindia.com/)
e-mail- myaccount.abc@gmail.com (myaccount.abc@gmail.com)

[joecoe]

What are your thoughts on Jupiter in 5th house, mars in 6th house, both in scorpio, venus in leo in 3rd house and sun in virgo in 4th house?

[Claire19]

Hello everyone....this is my very first thread where i m expressing something that i feel is near truth. i want you to share your experiences about it..........

Every one aspires to attain name and fame in life and for that in my opinion the most important planet is Sun however i have noticed that powerful Venus placed in ascendant also brings recognition and glory very quickly. the placement of malefic in 11th house. the placement of mercury in 4th house or mercury sun in 10th house, the placement of moon in 9th house, mars in 3rd or tenth house, jupiter in 1st, 4th, 7th or 10th from ascendant.

In addition to that i have noticed that the relation between 1st , 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th and 10th lords in any of these houses proves miraculous for earning name and fame in life.


full moon in 10th house also brings glory. I have seen it that whenever jupiter is in sagittarius or cancer in that case if Venus enters into 4th house the native not only earns glory but also lot of power in life.

but for gain of glory the promise from one planet is not enough rather there should be 3 or more than 3 conditions to expect name and fame in life.

Please do give your feedback and comments on the same.

Yashkaran Sharma
http://zodiac.futurepointindia.com/ (http://zodiac.futurepointindia.com/)
e-mail- myaccount.abc@gmail.com (myaccount.abc@gmail.com)

I have Jupiter in Libra well aspected and it makes me keen to learn the universal truths and open minded and generosity in love relationships, yes. Intelligence belongs to Mercury and its aspects more. Jupiter expands and can bring fortunate events wherever it touches. So it may be peregrine but I dont use those terms, they are too general.

Fame and glory belong to the 10th house and we must have planets there and/or aspects to its ruler for any prominence or at least the MC or Midheaven.

Venus in the 1st by itself does not not promise fame but can contribute to general appeal as it is an attractive and pleasing placement for the persona or first impression. If it is aspected to the 10th then yes, can indicate fame. Just because we have planets in the 10th doesnt mean we will be famous necessarily. It is the house of authority, career and vocation as well as our bosses and how we deal with them. Parents as well.

The fourth house is the home, family and roots. OUr hereditary traits and our later life conditions and our final resting place.
Jupiter in the 7th especially in Libra can mean fortunate partnerships and one to one contacts, yes. It can mean a foreign partner or long time friend or met when travelling. It is also fortunate for legal matters and negotiation if well aspected.

[Claire19]

What are your thoughts on Jupiter in 5th house, mars in 6th house, both in scorpio, venus in leo in 3rd house and sun in virgo in 4th house?

Once again a chart is needed. We have to look always at the whole chart and its aspects.

[joecoe]

my chart is attached.

[aquarius7000]

Yashkaran, very interesting thoughts.
the placement of malefic in 11th house. I believe the word malefic was just a typo. You did not explain it, but I take it, while saying the above you had 'attaining name and fame' in mind for which a malefic in the 11th is hardly beneficial (I have Saturn in the 11th:p, and Sun opposing a sunny/Leo rising:rolleyes:).

One or two more placements/configurations that I'd like to add from my side (though you've partly already mentioned them) are those of the lights (Sun/Moon) and/or the benefics (Jup/Ven) above the beams/horizon (except the 8th & 12th house- though Jup here is considered good), and/or in the 1st/7th houses, which can prove to be quite helpful. The most important houses in this respect are the 10th, 11th and the 1st, followed then by the 7th (and in this order).
Similarly any aspects (easier ones would be more helpful) from the aforementioned planets to esp the Asc and MC may also be an added bonus.


:sunny:AQ7

[chuckysbride666]

okies im confused coz one min i had most the signs and was made up lol
then it says i wont?
i have a few things in them houses can someone tell me if i have a sign please? x :o

[hiimnotcool]

Hello everyone....this is my very first thread where i m expressing something that i feel is near truth. i want you to share your experiences about it..........

Every one aspires to attain name and fame in life and for that in my opinion the most important planet is Sun however i have noticed that powerful Venus placed in ascendant also brings recognition and glory very quickly. the placement of malefic in 11th house. the placement of mercury in 4th house or mercury sun in 10th house, the placement of moon in 9th house, mars in 3rd or tenth house, jupiter in 1st, 4th, 7th or 10th from ascendant.

In addition to that i have noticed that the relation between 1st , 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th and 10th lords in any of these houses proves miraculous for earning name and fame in life.

I have noticed in several horoscopes that jupiter in libra makes one very intelligent and the placement of it in 7th house brings good luck.

full moon in 10th house also brings glory. I have seen it that whenever jupiter is in sagittarius or cancer in that case if Venus enters into 4th house the native not only earns glory but also lot of power in life.

but for gain of glory the promise from one planet is not enough rather there should be 3 or more than 3 conditions to expect name and fame in life.

Please do give your feedback and comments on the same.

Yashkaran Sharma
http://zodiac.futurepointindia.com/ (http://zodiac.futurepointindia.com/)
e-mail- myaccount.abc@gmail.com (myaccount.abc@gmail.com)

Let's see. I've got Mercury in the 4th house. I've got Jupiter in the 10th house.

The Moon in the 11th.

The lord of the 1st is in the 4th, the lord of the 5th is in the 4th, the lord of the 7th is in the 4th, and the lord of the 10th is in the 7th.

According to that some measure of fame and name is written in the stars for me.

I do tend to agree with Joseph in this regard though. This is where the Lot of Fortune and the Trigon lords should come into place.

[Claire19]

Only the planets connected to and in the 10th are indication of fame. Jupiter in the 10th for instance can bring fortune in the public arena. Moon there can bring rapport with the public for instance. We also need to look at the 6th for employment on everyday level and perhaps the 2nd for indication of wealth and personal income.


Not everyone wants a name and fame by the way....

[Claire19]

You do have Mercury and the Sun in the 10th, these can indicate worldly success and in your case publishing, writing and general communications are indicated. Perhaps connected to foreign countries, foreign correspondent or journalism also promotions and publishing.

You will want to be your own boss I would say and an authority figure. Have you thought about writing or illustrating childrens books??? Cds, dvds, etc can be included in that.

Having said all that, these placements do not guaranteee fame or a public life but your career aspirations are strong with the SUn there.

[samsum78]

Angular house placements are considered auspicious.

According to Vedic astrology, we classify it into following categories.

Angular house or Kendra: 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th

Purpose or Trikona: 1st, 5th, 9th

Best placement gives rise to Raja Yoga (name and fame): When the ruler of a Trikona or purposeful house is in the Kendra or Angular house or vice versa.

This indicates a sense of purpose and direction with good standing in the world.

Its strength will depend upon planetary strength , afflictions and characteristics and areas of fame depend upon which house and planet is present.

Though the one's below classify as good name and fame indicators, they can give rise to some difficulties,
9th in 4th (as 4th is 8th from 9th).
5th in 10th (as 10th is 6th from 5th).
10th in 9th (as 9th is 12th from 10th).
5th in 4th (as 4th is 12th from 5th).
7th in 9th (as 9th is 3rd from 7th)

Exalted planets and planets in their own sign also add to this.

A lot of financial gains are however predicted using 2nd and 11th, and its connection to the 4th can bring a lot of financial prosperity especially with real estate and other gains.

Hard planets like Saturn, Sun, Mars etc in 3rd and 11th are good as they have the energies to deal with the difficulties of these houses.

[chuckysbride666]

ive actually thought about writing my own book,recently i started writing like a vampire type but i didnt continue it but now im thinking i should :joyful: the past year ive had ideas for books i could write but i never thought it would be successful but its worth a try thank you :joyful: x

[Claire19]

I dont agree that everyone aspires to fame and glory. No way. Some actually avoid it. The 10th house has to be involved for a public life of any sort. I should modify that by saying aspects to the MC or Midheaven have to be there if no planets in the actual 10th house.

Sun in 10th, good for performing arts, Saturn there for politics, Mars there for a drive to be famous and perhaps as a risk taker of some kind, dare devil. Prominent surgeon... Venus there can be famous for arts and music. Neptune there can mean famous film star and one who lends glamour and mystery, charisma..... Moon there can mean mother is famous or is a mother figure to the public. Or a connection to the masses on an emotional level. Uranus there can mean a famous astrologer, radio or television star, an inventor or scientist. Pluto there can be a famous hypnotist, one who can manipulate the masses, often with sexuality. These are only scenarios and general.

[RayAustin]

I haven't been to this forum in ages, but I felt strongly compelled to write as this may be a great epiphany for some.

The midheaven itself and its ruler is not the indicator of the exaltation of the nativity. You will see many websites describing it as the house of fame, but as far as strictly determining fame it cannot.

It describes the career very well but not what level the native excels at the career i.e.; it describes an artist, not necessarily a famous one; furthermore dignity/debility of house rulers does not play a part in absolutely determining what level of success the native reaches in each respective house.

In other words, an otherwise extremely afflicted planet (2nd or 10th ruler) does not deny wealth, or fame. I have seen charts of otherwise distinguished inviduals whose midheaven lord is peregrine (Tiger Woods, for example: née 30 Dec 1975, 10:50 PM; Long Beach, CA). His second lord Venus is in detriment in Scorpio.

I have found the hellenistic delineation of Vettius Valens and Gauquelin's work to have the most consistent real-life results. In short Valens' work revolves around the use of the five lots of fate and the part of fortune, Gauquelin's technique of eminence in a career revolving around the idea of the cadent houses and certain planets posited in them.

These two different disciplines have one thing universal, planets providing exalting power for the native by the relationship to a specific point of origin. For Gauquelin, it's the ascendant; for Valens, it's the ascendant and whichever sign the lot of fortune occupies.

In Tiger Woods's chart for example, Mars lies in the Gauquelin angle of the ninth house, which was Gauquelin's famous "Mars effect"; the signature of a famous sportsman.

Referencing Valens's work, the Lord of Exaltation in the nativity culminates (ten houses from) from the lot of fortune, which "shows" fame. This same Lord of exaltation is Mars, again indicative of sports.

Marilyn Monroe, another celebrity, has Venus (tenth ruler) in a Gauquelin angle of the ninth house (the arts, of course), so there is "eminence".

Converting her chart to whole sign and following Valens's technique I found this interesting; her Lord of the Lot of fortune is in the twelfth house from the lot, indicating something quite unfortunate and self-destructive as far as general happiness and richness in life, though Venus sits on the lot of fortune assuring that still the native will enjoy a time of great wealth and general fortune in life better than most; which she did.

As far as Valens' technique of indicating fame, her lot of exaltation ruler sits on the lot of fortune, which "shows" fame.

I consider Valens' technique to be the most accurate way to determine fame, but fame is probably one of the vaguest areas of astrology research. Simply because of how vague the word is, itself -- fame comes in many shapes and colors, lasting and unlasting.



Any questions or comments, I'm here, for now.. ;)

[RayAustin]

I might as well add this since it's mentioned in my signature, Lilly's Anima Astrologiae has one aphorism mentioning the moon as an indicator of fame providing it aspects many planets.. I rather think that a strong moon aspecting many planets provides many talents which tends towards famous personage. :)

[broken1wing]

[QUOTE=Claire19;143999]Only the planets connected to and in the 10th indication of fame. Jupiter in the 10th for instance can bring fortune in the public arena. Moon there can bring rapport with the public for instance. We also need to look at the 6th for employment on everyday level and perhaps the 2nd for indication of wealth and personal income.






I have Jupiter in the 10th and I don't see any fortune coming my way any time soon. Can you see my chart: DOB;6/18/62 Time; 3.58AM Place;Rajpura India

[RayAustin]

I have Jupiter in the 10th and I don't see any fortune coming my way any time soon.

Why do you say that? Your chart looks very fortunate.

[Astro-Intuitive]

Hi yashkaran,

Personal verification of fully-functionally horoscopes has shown me that prominence can a occur in a variety of ways. The Moon conjunct or parallel the ASC adds popularity to the personality as well as a tendency to be constantly in motion, on-the-go or in dealing with the public (hence, if a person's Moon is in the 12th house but on the verge of being in the 1st house - as shown according to the physical birth time - his or her Moon might really be in the 1st, depending on the actual personality of the individual and change in house cusps that reflect the accurate horoscope).

The Sun, as you mentioned, also adds prominence. A planet like Jupiter or the Moon in the 4th house adds either expanding personal status or very social and changing circumstances in life. But when a planet is in the 10th house contributes the greatest towards one's reputation. Jupiter in the 10th has an expanding reputation in life. Sun in the 10th house or conjunct or parallel the MC also adds prominence, power and favorable influences from those in authority. Moon increases popular. Saturn suggests the climb toward the ladder of success to have been arduous but very much admired and long-lasting. Uranus equates to a revolutionary or technical professional. Neptune empitomizes a person with visionary ideas (or a moral ideal) and a unique sophistication and quality unlike any other. Mercury can indicate a writer, communicator or speaker. Venus a socially wonderful human being. Mars, a military or sport figure or one known to have a "purple heart"

Pluto in the 10th wields enormous power over others (bosses will be of like nature). Pluto conjunct or parallel the MC is virtually certain to achieve prominence in life. These are "can do" individuals who often get the reputation of applying intensive efforts and resourcefulness in furthering objectives, as well as having a dynamic dynamism, charismatic or "magnetic" social presence. Not a person one would want to cross.

[broken1wing]

Why do you say that? Your chart looks very fortunate.




Please explain how it's fortunate. I don't feel my life is very fortunate. What I wanted in life, i didn't get, in any respect. Not too happy with my fortune.

[zebrafish]

hi all,

I'm a beginner, but I'll try to do a bit of analysis here, on my own chart.

Going by what the OP said, I have mercury in the 4th. Jupiter is in 2nd house, in Scorpio, but it's really on the cusp of sagittarius. I would say it has to have some Sagittarius influence there.

I have Pluto, a malefic, in the 11th. Somebody said that's not so good.
it's retrograde.

I have the 9th lord in the 4th house.

I personally liked what Ray Austin said, so going by his post, by what he said about Valen, I have the part of fortune in sagittarius, in the 2nd house. I don't know if it's really close enough to Jupiter to be considered conjunct.

So Pluto rules the 2nd house, but part of fortune is real close to its sign ruler, Jupiter. Would that be a good thing?

Pluto rules the 2nd and is placed in the 11th, so it is the 10th house from the second house. 11th is ruled by Leo, and sun is in aquarius in 4th house.

My ascendant ruler is Venus, in exaltation in Pisces, in the 5th.
Ruled by neptune in the 1st house. Do they rule each other?

what I want to do would require some degree of fame, through the internet. I'm going to have to learn all about internet marketing. I want to follow the example of music groups who promote their music themselves on the internet rather than sign with a label. (I'm not a musician though).

I can't figure how to re-size the chart to 63%, so I hosted it.
here's the link:

http://tinyurl.com/ybhm5p9


PS: since this forum is kind of buried, I will also post this on the greenhorn forum.

[astro09]

Sun and Jupiter are significant in this issue of fame and prosperity, as well as other 10th H related planets. However, we should keep in mind the aspects and the status of the planets' direction as well. For instances, a retrograde Jupiter (even in Pisces, for ex.) may fall short. If we throw an opposition to uranus or pluto, there is some impact there.

In summary, watch the aspects and whether is retrograde...

[Aruilly]

The 10th house is a very sharp double edged sword. Does it bring fame, sure mostly, though it can simply be famous around neighborhood instead of world fame, but it also brings many problems with it. 10th is angular, a planet there is a visible planet so to speak.

Usually, fame indicators are sun, moon, jupiter and venus. How would you feel having this planets out there for all to see? If you crave fame then woohoo, if not however, with personal planets there you'd run to somewhere and hide. Not to mention, bad publicity is still publicity. What I mean by this is when things go nasty you may get the blame for it especially things related to career which is pretty much what this house is about. If you do your job right and things go well, you get a grand applause moment, do a mistake and the booing is just as loud.

[Katyusha]

My Sun&Mercury are in 10th house in Cancer and Jupiter is in 1th house, in Libra. Does that mean that I'll be famous when I grow up?

[byjove]

Well, I've a few of the placements mentioned above and have a few comments.

Sun in the 10th of Aries (exact trine to Saturn 5th/6th cusp, trine Uranus 6th
Jupiter in 10th of Aries (wide sextile to postive dispositer Mars in 11th Gem,
square MC ruler Neptune)
Mercury in Pisces(!) (exactly conjunct MC, exactly trine Cancer AC, tight
square to Uranus in 6th of Sagg)
Pluto in Scorpio (Lord at home, 5th house, wide trine 9th Pisces Venus)

Configuration of drive (T-square, 3rd Virgo Moon OPP 9th Pisces
Venus square Saturn 5th/6th cusp)

I can agree that the 10th house planets did bring widespread (positive!) attention, and that helped me achieve things I wanted. Plus, new worlds opened when I discovered what I could do. It's difficult being young and wanting to be top of the game, this young, I think I come across as a threat sometimes, and will have to wait 20 years before it's an 'acceptable' age for taking higher levels of responsibility.

I can't be sure exactly what'll happen next, but I've definite ideas of what I want to do, where I want to go.

[Claire19]

[QUOTE=Claire19;143999]Only the planets connected to and in the 10th indication of fame. Jupiter in the 10th for instance can bring fortune in the public arena. A hot shot lawyer and actor perhaps. Moon there can bring rapport with the public for instance. We also need to look at the 6th for employment on everyday level and perhaps the 2nd for indication of wealth and personal income.




I have Jupiter in the 10th and I don't see any fortune coming my way any time soon. Can you see my chart: DOB;6/18/62 Time; 3.58AM Place;Rajpura India Jupiter in the 10th does not necessarily give fame either. It is not as simple as all that.

[Claire19]

my chart is attached.
This is a strange kind of chart and hard to read. However as Uranus rules your 10th and is connected to your 6th house in Sagittarius it is possible to earn a living from acting but no great fame is promised. There are no strong placements in connection to the 10th of fame and public life. Jupiter is connected to the 5th of performing arts but ruled by Pluto in the 4th this again is not suggestive of being out there in the public eye. Venus in Leo in the 2nd of personal income is trine Neptune on the 6th cusp and that can mean film work. You may be involved in dance also but your chart ruler of Mercury is also in the 4th house of family matters.

Your focus is really the domestic sphere and family matters. You may set up a partnership with someone in your family but again I dont see enormous fame. If you can get your north node and look at that, it is where you are to focus this time around.

[Courtney Love]

well I have pluto in the 10th, but the ruler of the 10th is Venus in the 12th... *sigh* So pluto is well aspected, sextiles the sun in the first as well, but with the 10th house being ruled by a 12th house planet, I would imagine fame is an impossibility...

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5582/astro2gw05deanna2136317.gif

truthfully tho, I'd rather have money than fame...

[shaggy]

none of my planets/node's retro.
pluto conjuncts mc in scorpio.(domicile)
sag merc/venus/nnode conjunct mc.
sag sun's in the 10th & mars(rules 3rd) conjuncts the 11H cusp.
jupiter(ruler of 11th) in the 9th(own house) in scorpio.
venus(ruler of 9th & 4th)in the 10th.
scorpio part of fortune(9H) conjunct mc/pluto.
virgo moon's in the 8th(trine uran/nept,sext pluto/mc,quincunx sat,sq mars) & rules the 6th

i donno if this is fortunate or not:
dignified uranus(asc ruler)conj neptune(2H ruler) in the 12H(neptune in it's own house).
venus sextiles asc
jupe sq asc
saturn(12H lord) in 1H(dignified)
nep/uran conj sextiles mc.

my merc's @ 0 degree sag(critical deg & in detriment)& is the most aspected planet. em gonna make use of my speaking skills & try finding a post in the UN. But i don really know what to do with my life.

[Vagabondgirl]

I dont know if Ill ever be famous, but... I have Uranus (singleton) in 7th house, aspecting sun (sextile) and mars (square).

Capricorn MC with saturn conjunct 7th house cusp (opposing ASC).

Saturn has sextiles from mars-venus-moon stellium.

AC is creating a "grand trine" with jupiter and venus-moon.

Will I be known through my work or not? :innocent:

[Claire19]

What are your thoughts on Jupiter in 5th house, mars in 6th house, both in scorpio, venus in leo in 3rd house and sun in virgo in 4th house?
In regard to???? None of these are in the 10th. What is the 10th ruler and any planets there or aspecting the 10th...???

[RayAustin]

Fame/Exaltation...simply..has many signatures. The more you see the more likely it is, also it does not necessarily mean that such exaltation is 'public'..

As for fixed stars, they definitely help and are 'red flags', but definitely not a requirement at all.

[BOOGY99]

[QUOTE=Claire19;159331]I dont agree that everyone aspires to fame and glory. No way. Some actually avoid it. The 10th house has to be involved for a public life of any sort.

************
I agree

Moon/mars in 10th house in cancer

When I was young 7 to 12 ish I was good at athletics, and was quite famous within the schools and parts of my town.

I hated the attention, I could not understand why people where glorifying me as I was just born that way, no effort needed to win my races.

I might take a different view now as I am older though

[Claire19]

[QUOTE=Claire19;159331]I dont agree that everyone aspires to fame and glory. No way. Some actually avoid it. The 10th house has to be involved for a public life of any sort.

************
I agree

Moon/mars in 10th house in cancer

When I was young 7 to 12 ish I was good at athletics, and was quite famous within the schools and parts of my town.

I hated the attention, I could not understand why people where glorifying me as I was just born that way, no effort needed to win my races.

I might take a different view now as I am older though

Interesting. Moon in Cancer is rather the homebody and Mars is the planet of energy etc. It is not a show off sign and it shows that you were well known within your family and home area. Again I have learned something here. Thank you.

:happy:

[Claire19]

If you're talking about serious fame, there's usually a fixed star or four in the mix helping it along, at least in my experience - though you'll find it in most classical writings, too. And probably why we see people with only one planet above the horizon becoming famous oftentimes - if you just go by planets sometimes it's a big ???

If I can find it I will post a link - there's a lecture Rob Hand did about planetary 'spearbearers' - planets rising before the Sun in a day chart, or setting after the Moon in a night chart, that comes from Greek astrology, as another way of determining fame, or at least possible fame. Interesting stuff.
THe aspects to a planet in the 10th are very telling. It is also just the career or vocation house and not necessarily of public life or fame.
I dont know about fixed stars but they may support an already strong influence.

I still stand by the premise that there absolutely has to be at least one planet in the 10th for a prominent and public life. To rise to a position of authority or sway....

[Wames]

I was searching for more info on peregrine planets and then I found this interesting thread.

Claire, I like your style! I'm just a newbie so I'm still trying to figure out my chart and always looking for helpful suggestions.

I started taking tap, jazz, ballet classes at age 7. I then went on to teach classes at 17. I moved to Vegas at age 19 and performed abroad on and off for about 5 years along with teaching classes locally. The stage was my safe haven and it's in my blood (or in my chart, possibly). But rejection is not fun, neither is lookism, and I am glad to be far removed from it. I worked with entertainers who still perform and some of them did television work. But honestly, I just didn't have the thick skin to keep up with auditions and worry about getting rejected. Plus I developed such a paranoia about my body size. It's not for the faint of heart. I couldn't even imagine the acting world and hollyweird and it's cutthroat biz. I still love everything about the arts, just be careful of the snakes that want to poison your craft that you love more than life itself. My chart isn't anything special, but I did have brief moments of glory that I will never forget.

[RayAustin]

Only the planets connected to and in the 10th indication of fame.

No. The 10th is most correctly associated with nobility, honor, the native's reputation. Not necessarily fame. There are famous people with bad reputations in which we would expect the tenth house to be afflicted. Lots of famous world leaders have Sun in 12th house, Madonna has Sun in the 12th house and no planets in 10th house. Only using the lot of fortune method did it clearly describe and indicate her fame. Your theory is problematic and one dimensional; I don't see why you are so adamant about a one dimensional conclusion.

The first house lord in the first has long been associated with creating fame, more importantly: the 9th house has been described as THE house of fame by the astrologer Raphael, possibly due to its connections to world-wide influence. Uranus, aka Herschel is associated with fame. So is the 11th house, as this has connection to having numerous supporters (aka fans) which is a requirement for many famous people, 'lest they be infamous.

The most reliable method I've seen is using the lot of fortune.

[RayAustin]

I still stand by the premise that there absolutely has to be at least one planet in the 10th for a prominent and public life. To rise to a position of authority or sway....

You must not have studied famous people's charts then, because that is proven to be blatantly false.

I wouldn't stand for a premise of something that is easily proven false after looking at ten charts.

[juicey J.]

Thank you Ray Austin for some statistical data in regards to plantary placements and fame. Also, I have noticed the part of fortune being in aspect to jupiter and/or in conjunction or oppostion to a postive star in a few cases. I have heard jupiter in aspect to the mc and/or its ruler is found in a few celebrity charts. I have noticed in a handful or so of cases (using astrodatabank) that neptune is found in the 6th house or 10th of movie stars or actors or its in aspect to the 6th house ruler and/or mc and/or the mc ruler with in about a 10 or less degree orb. I have also, noticed some of these factors along with either a Pisces mc or 6th house.

[RayAustin]

Thank you Ray Austin for some statistical data in regards to plantary placements and fame.
Hi JJ,
Well I haven't really provided any statistical data, but I've looked over many famous people's charts, as the astrology of fame is a wonderful subject to me--full of mysteries and misconceptions. Some day soon I'll write another article that will be more statistical in its conclusions.


I have heard jupiter in aspect to the mc and/or its ruler is found in a few celebrity charts.
I wouldn't be surprised with Jupiter as one of the natural rulers of fame.

[juicey J.]

Oh, I realize you haven't brought up any specific data I was refering simply to your meantion of the "mars affect".

[Wames]

Hi RayAustin.

You got me really curious about tenth house planets and the famous artists who inspired and influenced me over the years. So I started looking at some of their charts. There were many without tenth house planets. Cyd Charisse, Fred Astaire, and Alvin Ailey do not have tenth house planets. Both Bob Fosse and Liza Minnelli do not have planets there either. Gene Kelly, Liza Minnelli, and her mother Judy Garland all have 12th house suns. Michael Bennett ("A Chorus Line" ) has a 12th house sun too, no planets in the 10th. Interesting. Thank you for your posts.

[Skillcoil]

I've noticed node conjunctions in some charts of famous people, it could be something to consider. For name, fame and glory, would the vertex be involved also?

[Caprising]

I was searching for more info on peregrine planets and then I found this interesting thread.

Claire, I like your style! I'm just a newbie so I'm still trying to figure out my chart and always looking for helpful suggestions.

I started taking tap, jazz, ballet classes at age 7. I then went on to teach classes at 17. I moved to Vegas at age 19 and performed abroad on and off for about 5 years along with teaching classes locally. The stage was my safe haven and it's in my blood (or in my chart, possibly). But rejection is not fun, neither is lookism, and I am glad to be far removed from it. I worked with entertainers who still perform and some of them did television work. But honestly, I just didn't have the thick skin to keep up with auditions and worry about getting rejected. Plus I developed such a paranoia about my body size. It's not for the faint of heart. I couldn't even imagine the acting world and hollyweird and it's cutthroat biz. I still love everything about the arts, just be careful of the snakes that want to poison your craft that you love more than life itself. My chart isn't anything special, but I did have brief moments of glory that I will never forget.

It's interesting that your prog. m/c would have moved to conjunct your natal venus around the time that your acting career took off, also the mars/jupiter opposition which would allow you to experience the "bitchy" side of show business, it's a shame that these two planets are connected to Saturn on your m/c, as I believe that this would be the main casaul factor restricting your career, along with that moon/uranus conjunction also connecting to saturn!

[RayAustin]

Hi RayAustin.

You got me really curious about tenth house planets and the famous artists who inspired and influenced me over the years. So I started looking at some of their charts. There were many without tenth house planets. Cyd Charisse, Fred Astaire, and Alvin Ailey do not have tenth house planets. Both Bob Fosse and Liza Minnelli do not have planets there either. Gene Kelly, Liza Minnelli, and her mother Judy Garland all have 12th house suns. Michael Bennett ("A Chorus Line" ) has a 12th house sun too, no planets in the 10th. Interesting. Thank you for your posts.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I used to feel awful about my 12th house sun; feeling that no person who dreamed to be well-known should realistically entertain the idea with a 12th house sun, especially if said Sun ruled the tenth house. After a lot of research and studying famous people charts, 12th house suns seemed to appear significantly; maybe even being a signature (which I can address later) Not only that, I found no reliable method for determining "fame" other than using the hellenistic method (which could be more ancient than that) written of by Vettius Valens.

[Wames]

It's interesting that your prog. m/c would have moved to conjunct your natal venus around the time that your acting career took off, also the mars/jupiter opposition which would allow you to experience the "bitchy" side of show business, it's a shame that these two planets are connected to Saturn on your m/c, as I believe that this would be the main casaul factor restricting your career, along with that moon/uranus conjunction also connecting to saturn!

Hello Caprising. I had my first big break when I was 21 years old. I put myself through a lot of hell, sweat, and tears at the time. I went to China for my first dance contract and before I even flew out, there was a chinese govnt official who reviewed the tape of our show and wanted me fired. He thought I was fat. Thank god the producer and choreographer believed in me (although I still got a weight notice and had to lose 10 pounds) and didn't fire me. A few years later I became luckier thanks to the support of a few friends and I landed a couple of good jobs without so much of the drama that I encountered previously.

You are right though. I love the arts but I hated the business with all its background noise. It's a world that I do not regret but I was too sensitive to persevere. I went from taking classes 3 hours a day to stopping cold turkey out of protest at one point. I was thinking maybe if my mars was in aries I might have been more fruitful. I had a few windows of opportunity I never jumped on. Thanks for pointing me towards my Saturn.

[Wames]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I used to feel awful about my 12th house sun; feeling that no person who dreamed to be well-known should realistically entertain the idea with a 12th house sun, especially if said Sun ruled the tenth house. After a lot of research and studying famous people charts, 12th house suns seemed to appear significantly; maybe even being a signature (which I can address later) Not only that, I found no reliable method for determining "fame" other than using the hellenistic method (which could be more ancient than that) written of by Vettius Valens.

Oh, you're welcome! I would love to read any work you have on it. When I saw the mother/daughter power diva duo (Liza and Judy) with the 12th house suns and then the others too, I was getting excited.

I will have to look up Vettius Valens. More education, thanks. By the way, I looked up the actress Liv Tyler. She also has a 12th house sun.

[Oren]

No. The 10th is most correctly associated with nobility, honor, the native's reputation. Not necessarily fame. There are famous people with bad reputations in which we would expect the tenth house to be afflicted. Lots of famous world leaders have Sun in 12th house, Madonna has Sun in the 12th house and no planets in 10th house. Only using the lot of fortune method did it clearly describe and indicate her fame. Your theory is problematic and one dimensional; I don't see why you are so adamant about a one dimensional conclusion.

The first house lord in the first has long been associated with creating fame, more importantly: the 9th house has been described as THE house of fame by the astrologer Raphael, possibly due to its connections to world-wide influence. Uranus, aka Herschel is associated with fame. So is the 11th house, as this has connection to having numerous supporters (aka fans) which is a requirement for many famous people, 'lest they be infamous.

The most reliable method I've seen is using the lot of fortune.

If this is true, I'm kinda relieved because I have no 10th house planets either , but apparently, my chart has a lot of indicators for acting or some sort of performing arts (sun and venus in taurus in 5th house, libra MC for instance), but can someone help me better understand my part of fortune in leo? in terms of what that indicates with regards to fame?

Besides the things I just mentioned, I don't have much of what's been mentioned in most of the threads regarding fame...so I'm wondering, if I were to ever go into the arts, would fame not be something that will be part of that?

[RayAustin]

The reason I am not answering opinions about personal charts is I don't take this technique lightly to say, "oh yeahhh, you'll totally be famous!" to anyone who asks about it. I think you should learn how to read it yourself. I will say Oren, your lord of fortune ruler is strongly placed.

[eternalautumn]

I think you would definitely have to want and work for fame; just having the chart indications doesn't mean one day you'll randomly become famous...

[RayAustin]

I think you would definitely have to want and work for fame; just having the chart indications doesn't mean one day you'll randomly become famous...

Yeah, but reading The Anthology by Vettius Valens, that is not how the ancients saw it, it was very final. For example, never was there any mention that the indicators were indicators of potential; if you read the way they spoke, they spoke in a definite manner. I don't see why this should change in our time today if we are to abide by their rules.

Another way of saying it .. the method shows rank, whether they worked for it or not; whether someone does or needed to does not matter, the chart would show where they ended up anyway.

[RayAustin]

I think you would definitely have to want and work for fame; just having the chart indications doesn't mean one day you'll randomly become famous...

Mostly I was describing what seemed to be the ancients' viewpoint above, but in a way I agree as well, which is one reason I'm not giving my personal opinions about people's charts.

[Claire19]

well I have pluto in the 10th, but the ruler of the 10th is Venus in the 12th... *sigh* So pluto is well aspected, sextiles the sun in the first as well, but with the 10th house being ruled by a 12th house planet, I would imagine fame is an impossibility...

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5582/astro2gw05deanna2136317.gif

truthfully tho, I'd rather have money than fame...
Well, you could do well with film work but generally the 12th is the private house and doesnt involve public acclaim or image but if there are aspects to the 10th from there, it would be possible to have a public life.
Pluto in the 10th is indicative of mass media and appeal and someone who is a well known psychoanalyst for instance could have it or someone with great magnetism and sex appeal. It all depends on looking at the whole chart.

[Claire19]

I think you would definitely have to want and work for fame; just having the chart indications doesn't mean one day you'll randomly become famous...
I agree and having planets in the 10th does not always mean fame as it rules more than our career, after all.

However with no planets in the 10th, fame is highly unlikely.

[Oren]

I agree and having planets in the 10th does not always mean fame as it rules more than our career, after all.

However with no planets in the 10th, fame is highly unlikely.

regarding the 10th house and fame, I recently came accross this interview:
http://www.jeremysilman.com/astrology/fame.html

Also, I may not remember correctly, but I don't think the moon was mentioned too much in these fame threads, yet this article makes a pretty good argument for lunar aspects:
http://moonvalleyastrologer.com/fame.htm

Would like to hear anyone's thoughts on the articles :smile:

[Oren]

The reason I am not answering opinions about personal charts is I don't take this technique lightly to say, "oh yeahhh, you'll totally be famous!" to anyone who asks about it. I think you should learn how to read it yourself. I will say Oren, your lord of fortune ruler is strongly placed.

well, at least it sounds good, lol

[RayAustin]

Also, I may not remember correctly, but I don't think the moon was mentioned too much in these fame threads, yet this article makes a pretty good argument for lunar aspects:
http://moonvalleyastrologer.com/fame.htm

Would like to hear anyone's thoughts on the articles :smile:

Yes, the Moon has long been recognized to be connected with fame, as you see in the quote in my signature from the (pretty sure) 16th century astrologer Cardanus. It seems the Moon is connected to likability in a subconscious sense by the masses.

[RayAustin]

#1 Amelia Earhart .. No planets in 10th house.. Lot of fortune (also is lot of exaltation) is in an Air sign in 2nd house, has Moon and Venus on it which is very fortunate for being known and loved; two trigon lords angular in natal, one angular from lot of fortune ascendant.

#2 Whitney Houston .. No planets in 10th house.. Eminent chart with hellenistic methods. Lord of fortune is conjunct Jupiter which suggests high fortune and rank WHILE being ten signs from fortune. Very good!

#3 Lady Gaga .. even with proposed Sag/Scorpio risings no planets in tenth house. Very eminent chart with hellenistic methods supporting an extremely well-known figure. I'm sure I explained why before.

#4 Billie Holiday .. No tenth house planets. How ever, has a very eminent chart with the Sun (natural ruler of fame) exalted on the lot of fortune. Also, Sun is the exaltation lord of fortune, so this also counts as "lord of fortune on fortune". The first trigon lord culminates from the lot of fortune, but also lies in the 12th house natally; may be well known (or heading to) in this period but also suffer from self-destruction. Lord of fortune Mars (arguing fortune in life derived from men) is with Venus in Pisces (exalted) and Jupiter in Pisces (domicile), extremely fortunate! As far as being well-known goes.


An interesting note that these people's planets were afflicted, which is what you'd expect, since many of them were famous but suffered in their personal (sometimes also public) lives.

[Oren]

Yes, the Moon has long been recognized to be connected with fame, as you see in the quote in my signature from the (pretty sure) 16th century astrologer Cardanus. It seems the Moon is connected to likability in a subconscious sense by the masses.

wow, I seriously need to read better, lol

I'm just glad to know there's hope for us empty 10th house people after all:lol:

[RayAustin]

wow, I seriously need to read better, lol

I'm just glad to know there's hope for us empty 10th house people after all:lol:

Sure is, Oren!

[Skillcoil]

Although likeability is usually associated with venus, I agree the moon is an important part of it. What are the indicators that show why some famous people have sudden reversal of public opinion of them? Also there are celebrities who aren't well liked by many or theres combination of like/dislike.

[RayAustin]

What are the indicators that show why some famous people have sudden reversal of public opinion of them? Also there are celebrities who aren't well liked by many or theres combination of like/dislike.

Hi Skill, I spent quite a bit writing a response on my thoughts but didn't get to finish it, hopefully a partial reply is satiating:

The astrologer Robert Cross Smith (19th century astrologer) in A Manual of Astrology in his section "The Fortune of Rank" mentions that the superiors Saturn, Uranus, Mars, Jupiter and the Sun angular confers to public notoriety. However, he also mentions that if out of these planets Saturn, Uranus and Mars lie in the tenth to generally denote some sad catastrophe to finish the scheme of their nativity (155). So I looked at some assassinated people.

For example, Kennedy had Saturn in the tenth. Lincoln had Saturn in the tenth. Mussolini had Uranus in the tenth, Gandhi had Uranus conjunct the midheaven. Again however, this is subjective--how bad depends on how much the planets are afflicted themselves and afflicting the others, especially the luminaries; he mentions—and also mentions that if the planets are assissted then the placement is also not as bad. One should not assume (as they seem to here) this is mentioned as a guaranteed signature of ill-fate.

Another thing that may represent rise and fall in the nativity is if the tenth lord is in the twelfth since the twelfth house is declining and one of the most unfortunate houses; if the tenth lord is afflicted then they may most likely face disgrace or an unfortunate end to the career/reputation.


Kennedy
Kennedy had Saturn afflicted in Cancer in the tenth house, conjunct the midheaven in sextile with the Moon from the twelfth house. The lord of the 10th is in the 12th house. I don't see that this sextile is of much help to appease Saturn, as Saturn's dispositor Moon is weak and afflicted being in the 12th house in Virgo -- these two planets are also said to be "enemies"; of course there's reception here but I don't see it doing too much since the Moon is malignant from being in the twelfth house. Saturn is also sextiled by a Mercury/Jupiter/Mars conjunction in the eighth house; not a particularly fortunate connection with the agitated Mars (public enemies ruler). Mercury rules the 12th house of secret enemies, it seems like he had many enemies that wished his ruin.


Gandhi
Gandhi had Uranus conjunct the midheaven in Cancer, aspected by Mars in Scorpio by trine by 3°, and he was shot. Mars also opposes Pluto rx by only 0°44' in the eighth house, which makes this trine to Uranus very malignant; indicating a sudden violent death by piercing.
Jupiter is conjunct Pluto. It seems like Jupiter being involved may indicate a public death (as above, Kennedy also had Jupiter involved, and was killed in public).


[ to be continued: will touch on Lincoln, Mussolini .. and also people that weren't assassinated but have similar placements ] ...

:smile:
R.a.

[eternalautumn]

RayAustin: I just saw your response to me on this thread. I agree with you, I guess :smile:; after reading what you wrote, it makes sense.

But I think something that I'm not wrong about is that the "level" of fame and eminence depends on factors outside the chart, such as gender, ethnicity, socioecomonics, etc. Fame is subjective; you could say being in the newspaper makes one famous, or being on television once, or being an acclaimed actor. That's all fame, isn't it?

[Oren]

Hi Skill, I spent quite a bit writing a response on my thoughts but didn't get to finish it, hopefully a partial reply is satiating:

The astrologer Robert Cross Smith (19th century astrologer) in A Manual of Astrology in his section "The Fortune of Rank" mentions that the superiors Saturn, Uranus, Mars, Jupiter and the Sun angular confers to public notoriety. However, he also mentions that if out of these planets Saturn, Uranus and Mars lie in the tenth to generally denote some sad catastrophe to finish the scheme of their nativity (155). So I looked at some assassinated people.

For example, Kennedy had Saturn in the tenth. Lincoln had Saturn in the tenth. Mussolini had Uranus in the tenth, Gandhi had Uranus conjunct the midheaven. Again however, this is subjective--how bad depends on how much the planets are afflicted themselves and afflicting the others, especially the luminaries; he mentions—and also mentions that if the planets are assissted then the placement is also not as bad. One should not assume (as they seem to here) this is mentioned as a guaranteed signature of ill-fate.

Another thing that may represent rise and fall in the nativity is if the tenth lord is in the twelfth since the twelfth house is declining and one of the most unfortunate houses; if the tenth lord is afflicted then they may most likely face disgrace or an unfortunate end to the career/reputation.


Kennedy
Kennedy had Saturn afflicted in Cancer in the tenth house, conjunct the midheaven in sextile with the Moon from the twelfth house. The lord of the 10th is in the 12th house. I don't see that this sextile is of much help to appease Saturn, as Saturn's dispositor Moon is weak and afflicted being in the 12th house in Virgo -- these two planets are also said to be "enemies"; of course there's reception here but I don't see it doing too much since the Moon is malignant from being in the twelfth house. Saturn is also sextiled by a Mercury/Jupiter/Mars conjunction in the eighth house; not a particularly fortunate connection with the agitated Mars (public enemies ruler). Mercury rules the 12th house of secret enemies, it seems like he had many enemies that wished his ruin.


Gandhi
Gandhi had Uranus conjunct the midheaven in Cancer, aspected by Mars in Scorpio by trine by 3°, and he was shot. Mars also opposes Pluto rx by only 0°44' in the eighth house, which makes this trine to Uranus very malignant; indicating a sudden violent death by piercing.
Jupiter is conjunct Pluto. It seems like Jupiter being involved may indicate a public death (as above, Kennedy also had Jupiter involved, and was killed in public).

[ to be continued: will touch on Lincoln, Mussolini .. and also people that weren't assassinated but have similar placements ] ...

:smile:
R.a.

I thought this article's take on the 10th also being called the "house of downfalls" was interesting...and makes sense considering the sobering effect of saturn in general to most everything:
http://www.terrynazon.com/10th%20House.html

notable quote from article:
"The 10th house is also called the house of "downfalls". Your ability to accept responsibilities, and assume a role of power and authority appropriately without misusing your role in life to create havoc for those less fortunate, or those under your tutelage. Here you feel the consequences of your actions, with blockages, bad luck, falls from grace, discomfort and reap the bad karma of your actions or misdeeds. It is a house of corrections. It's where you are hardest on yourself. Sometimes we find afflictions to the 10th house in those people who are mean spirited and use and abuse others. In the respect it's a karmic house because it is ruled by the disciplinarian Saturn. Any planets in a house strengthen or weaken it. Making it more or less significant according to your birthday and your particular natal birth chart."

[RayAustin]

I've noticed node conjunctions in some charts of famous people, it could be something to consider. For name, fame and glory, would the vertex be involved also?

As all things in astrology something like that would have to be proven by observation .. I haven't heard of a notion like that before.

[RayAustin]

RayAustin: I just saw your response to me on this thread. I agree with you, I guess :smile:; after reading what you wrote, it makes sense.

But I think something that I'm not wrong about is that the "level" of fame and eminence depends on factors outside the chart, such as gender, ethnicity, socioecomonics, etc. Fame is subjective; you could say being in the newspaper makes one famous, or being on television once, or being an acclaimed actor. That's all fame, isn't it?

Yes, Vettius Valens' technique seems to be based as an indicator of eminence and rank for which fame is a byproduct--in my use I don't equate eminence to fame however, this technique seems to be the most reliable indicator of fame; entertaining the idea that in American culture fame = eminence.

I agree with you to some extent. I think the level doesn't depend, but varies on factors; one I believe in is that the level would be modified by the eminence of the native's country, in one aspect the socioeconomic conditions of the country--a country with more opportunity (America, for example) should theoretically "carry" people with eminent charts easier and higher than a stricken country. It would take extensive research to validate that opinion though, so I wouldn't believe it to be true, and personally--I know already it is not a universal truth, because there are expatriates who succeed in countries other than their own; and also those who suceed despite the conditions of their country. So perhaps it is that a person born in a stricken country would need quite the exceptional chart to become eminent.

There is also the possibility (and viewpoint) that none of this matters at all; this was not mentioned in Anthology and there's the idea that perhaps we shouldn't cater what the ancients say so that it fits neatly in our understanding and expectations of how it ought to work. Only conducting a study could the answer be found. :smile:

[eternalautumn]

You're right. Eminence and fame are two different things. My bad.

You make sense.

On the last part, I'd have to disagree. Because I'm sure that there are many people with many indicators of fame and/or eminence and/or rank that are living in a hut in a refugee camp somewhere and will probably die in obscurity. There simply has to be other factors.

[RayAustin]

Because I'm sure that there are many people with many indicators of fame and/or eminence and/or rank that are living in a hut in a refugee camp somewhere and will probably die in obscurity. There simply has to be other factors.

You really don't know that, though (edited to say: ) the technique isn't as general as say, "Uranus on the midheaven equals fame", it's a bit more complex which gives it the accuracy. I agree with you though to some extent, I guess I am more adamant about the idea of holding my own conclusions until I actually did the research. Also .. the last part (you quoted me) wasn't necessarily what I believed but what feels like a necessary consideration.

[eternalautumn]

Okay. :smile:

Also, timing has got to be an important factor, too, right? Are there any predictive methods that show when and where one might become famous, or when they reach the pinnacle of success?

[RayAustin]

Okay. :smile:

Also, timing has got to be an important factor, too, right? Are there any predictive methods that show when and where one might become famous, or when they reach the pinnacle of success?

Yes, timing is one definite factor they mention. I don't have the Anthology to quote (I read a PDF online but never owned the book and it was shortly taken down); but I'm sure they specified seeing if the native would even live long to see this "promise". As timing always is in astrology it's the most complex part! A general way is considering the trigon lords, not the most accurate; basically saying "this part of your life should be real good, this one not so much". Another way is zodiacal releasing which is pretty complicated and can divide the years up by dividing the signs, in a way similar to firdaria but of course more ancient. Using this one could decide when the native would reach "eminence".

[Claire19]

ive actually thought about writing my own book,recently i started writing like a vampire type but i didnt continue it but now im thinking i should :joyful: the past year ive had ideas for books i could write but i never thought it would be successful but its worth a try thank you :joyful: x
Yes I would pursue it.

:happy:

[Claire19]

Thank you RayAustin. :) I have my 12th house ruler, Saturn in the tenth house, also Uranus. Although in equal its in the eleventh house, I checked the charts you mentioned and it seems to go by equal house. With this method, is Jupiter associated with Sagittarius or Pisces?

About the nodes its something I've seen a few times, but havent looked into it enough to consider it. I thought the vertex might be connected because it's associated with fate.

This is one of most heavily aspected Moons I've seen, their POF conjuncts Saturn, would that have a negative or positive impact to their potential of being well known? chart (http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff175/skillcoilistaken/jupiter.gif)
Vertex is always between 5th and 8th houses and it may contribute with creativity and using others assets but again without 10th planets and or node, there will be no fame.

[Oren]

Vertex is always between 5th and 8th houses and it may contribute with creativity and using others assets but again without 10th planets and or node, there will be no fame.

Hi Claire, you seem really adamant about no 10th house planets indicating no fame, almost as an absolute when you say it like you did, "without 10th house planets and or node, there will be no fame.", But this is despite Ray Austin clearly describing the opposite. My only problem with you saying it like you did, is how you don't seem to give room for the possibility of anything else...like it's a final verdict...could you at least explain further why you feel so strongly about this? even though there clearly are examples that refute your opinion as Ray Austin had mentioned?
I'm just bothered by this because even if I can only speak for myself, I don't think it's fair to anybody else who aspires to fame or some sort of acclaim or recognition to be shot down or discouraged by a really heavy-handed reading like that, especially if there is the possibility of other factors in a chart that could indicate fame/acclaim.

[RayAustin]

Yes.. the node being a requirement is something new to me.

[RayAustin]

Thank you RayAustin. :)
You're welcome. :kissing:
I have my 12th house ruler, Saturn in the tenth house, also Uranus. Although in equal its in the eleventh house, I checked the charts you mentioned and it seems to go by equal house. With this method, is Jupiter associated with Sagittarius or Pisces?

Jupiter's associated with both Sagittarius and Pisces .. that's a good point to bring up, for people with more modern thinking. I am following the charts by whole sign, not equal house, as Valens would look at it. The houses are created by the signs without the degrees.

If Saturn is "with" the midheaven (in same sign) I would count it as a tenth house influence. If it's not and just in the 11th in whole sign, I would interpret with these methods Saturn in the eleventh.


This is one of most heavily aspected Moons I've seen, their POF conjuncts Saturn, would that have a negative or positive impact to their potential of being well known? chart (http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff175/skillcoilistaken/jupiter.gif)

That is a great question. This person is young. :wink:

Saturn in this chart is almost well placed. This is a day chart, so Saturn operates well especially since he's in his own trigon (triplicity) and angular--that alone is great (Valens' mentions this information in Book II of Anthologies); he would act benefic. The retrograde is going to be a negative impact, also the opposition to its house ruler (degrees don't matter) Jupiter which also rules the lot of fortune (and is in detriment) is going to be certain issue. The trine from the Sun in Leo may be of help, the trine from Mars in Aries may help too.

In a night chart, Saturn would definitely have a negative impact and the opposition would be very bad - by Valens' standards; the person might be impoverished (if we looked at that alone) or reduced in rank.

This quote would also apply to this person, from Anthologies:


The 7th Place of the Descendant
Benefics in this Place and ruling the Ascendant or the Lot of Fortune indicate good things for the native: inheritances, sudden acquisition of other property, and benefits from a death. If the benefics are not in their own places, men are less prosperous, but not poverty-stricken.


Again you have to consider that Jupiter opposes Saturn, but I don't think it's going to be extremely troublesome.
Edited to say, he also says:


Benefics [in the seventh house] make men with much experience and those who are fortunate in old age.

[hiimnotcool]

just be born with your trigons angular and the Lords of Fortune, Spirit, Basis and Exaltation in the 10th sign from the lots. If you do that you're gonna be golden. preferrably you'd have the lots themselves in an angular sign as well.
just get on good ole Delphic Oracle and look up your eminence score. you can download a free trial version of that ish here:


http://www.tucows.com/preview/327995

[RayAustin]

We both know Delphic Oracle is lacking though, but I suppose it's a start; edited to say .. it also really helps spotting things you can't "eyeball".

[Skillcoil]

RayAustin, I appreciate the interpretation of how Saturn would interact with the POF in the chart. I thought it might just be considered a malefic influence, I didn't know it could be that complex.
Thank you :kissing:

I checked my Saturn in whole signs, its in Sagittarius, same sign as the MC but also in the eleventh house, so if I interpreted it correctly it has tenth house influence. I like whole signs, but it would be nice if my Ascendant was at an early degree so the chart wouldnt change with every house system lol.

I made a thread asking about fame a while ago, someone commented with this link and mentioned that whole signs is used. http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/

[BobZemco]

Vertex is always between 5th and 8th houses and it may contribute with creativity and using others assets but again without 10th planets and or node, there will be no fame.

That isn't true at all. Fame is largely based on placement of Sun/Moon in Angular Houses, plus the "spear-bearers" (or attendants if you prefer) if any around Sun/Moon. If the Sun isn't Angular, it has to be Aries, Sagittarius or Pisces, Moon has be exalted or good aspect with Ascendant Ruler or MC Ruler and if not then there have to be Planets in Angular Houses, especially Ascendant Ruler and MC Ruler, and they have to be in Rulership or Exaltation and not impeded (ie not Retrograde, aspected by a Planet from a Cadent House etc etc). There are a few other conditions as well.

Bill Clinton has no Planets in his 10th House, but Moon rules the 10th House and Sun is in Leo (plus conjunct Regulus), Ascendant Ruler Venus is Angular and so is Mars and Jupiter (who is conjunct Spica).

So, not only does his chart scream "Fame!" it also screams "Kingship!"

Another fail for modern astrology.

The Nodes, well that's just absurd as they play no role except to make any Planet they're conjunct with stronger or weaker.

[Claire19]

What are your thoughts on Jupiter in 5th house, mars in 6th house, both in scorpio, venus in leo in 3rd house and sun in virgo in 4th house?
None of these placements indicate fame by themselves. The 10th house is always the house for fame and public life.

[Skillcoil]

None of these placements indicate fame by themselves. The 10th house is always the house for fame and public life.

I'm beginning to think you're a representative of some sort sponsoring the tenth house. :biggrin: just kidding.

[Claire19]

That isn't true at all. Fame is largely based on placement of Sun/Moon in Angular Houses, plus the "spear-bearers" (or attendants if you prefer) if any around Sun/Moon. If the Sun isn't Angular, it has to be Aries, Sagittarius or Pisces, Moon has be exalted or good aspect with Ascendant Ruler or MC Ruler and if not then there have to be Planets in Angular Houses, especially Ascendant Ruler and MC Ruler, and they have to be in Rulership or Exaltation and not impeded (ie not Retrograde, aspected by a Planet from a Cadent House etc etc). There are a few other conditions as well.

Bill Clinton has no Planets in his 10th House, but Moon rules the 10th House and Sun is in Leo (plus conjunct Regulus), Ascendant Ruler Venus is Angular and so is Mars and Jupiter (who is conjunct Spica).

So, not only does his chart scream "Fame!" it also screams "Kingship!"

Another fail for modern astrology.

The Nodes, well that's just absurd as they play no role except to make any Planet they're conjunct with stronger or weaker.
For a start Bill Clinton has Saturn in the 10th, classic for politics. His Mercury is also there and close to the 11th house. He is known as a good orator.

I would suggest that planets conjunct the north node make the north node stronger rather. Helps to head the native in the direction for this lifetime.

The Leo stellium does show kingship and fame of a sort. He has made a fortune from public speaking and from his books....strong Venus in Libra sextile Mercury etc. With the Libra stellium he has been a lawyer and married one.

HIs MC ruler is the Moon in Taurus in the 8th, not well aspected and his reputation with women and sex is not favourable and with Pluto square that Moon to the 11th, again the media have contributed to the exposure of his sexual antics and other secrets that can be investigated, especially from the past.

I know his chart backwards as it is mine also with differences....of course.....

I

[Prisma]

http://astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=238048#post238048

[Claire19]

I am adamant about the 10th house and fame. I challenge anyone to show me a verified chart of someone famous or infamous with no 10th house connections.

By the same token having planets there does not necessarily indicate fame
but stresses career or parental issues, how authority is dealt with and how we aspire to achieve our goals, whatever they may be.

[RayAustin]

I am adamant about the 10th house and fame. I challenge anyone to show me a verified chart of someone famous or infamous with no 10th house connections.

Alan Leo. In whole sign, 10th lord Venus in 12th house in Cancer, retrograde; badly placed. Consider the idea Claire that fame/renown does not necessarily entail a public life. You seem to be interpreting things solely from the aspect of celebrity life.

Alan Leo, though no tenth house planets, has three superior planets angular (great for renown, notoriety); the exaltation lord of fortune (Sun) angular present with Jupiter which is great for renown; not only that, the lord of fortune Mars is in Capricorn exalted--ten signs from fortune. This is someone who would be regarded highly.

Also, mostly people (seem to) have been disputing your comment(s):
Not so much your new "tenth house connections" argument.


but again without 10th planets and or node, there will be no fame.

However with no planets in the 10th, fame is highly unlikely.

I still stand by the premise that there absolutely has to be at least one planet in the 10th for a prominent and public life. To rise to a position of authority or sway....

Fame and glory belong to the 10th house and we must have planets there, aspects to its ruler for any prominence


I do agree that tenth house connections will play a role in the charts of some people; however clearly those without tenth house planets can become renown. The tenth house is important in hellenistic methods (though not necessarily a requirement) but specifically the fortune tenth house--a method you don't support.

[Caprising]

Lets not forget that progressions to the m/c, or the progressed m/c can show fame/fortune too, even if it is short lived!

[dr. farr]

Along with Caprising's reminder, I would add: let's not forget to investigate the dodekatemorion-maybe no planet is bodily posited, say, in the 10th house, but there might be one or more planets ramified in the 10th, which dodekatemorion could show.

[BobZemco]

For a start Bill Clinton has Saturn in the 10th, classic for politics.

No, he doesn't.

Cancer is the 10th Sign and the MC (5° Cancer).

Saturn is in Leo, the 11th Sign (at 2° Leo).

Modern astrologers like Robert Pelletier, Robert Hand, Noel Tyl and about 500 others would say Saturn is so close to the 11th House Cusp that Saturn no longer has any influence or power in the 10th House; that Saturn's influence spills over into the 11th House (which is something they borrow from traditional astrology).

Traditional astrologers using Whole Sign would see Saturn in the 11th, and using other House Systems would read Saturn into the 11th since it is within 5° of the 11th House.

You modern astrologers need to get your stories straight and make up your minds.

I would suggest that planets conjunct the north node make the north node stronger rather. Helps to head the native in the direction for this lifetime.

The Nodes are Chart Points, and specifically they are empty points in space and when the Moon is there and eclipse occurs. They have no energy; give off no light, and emanate no rays, so that is a rather absurd view.

Prince Henry has the South Node in his 10th House, of course changing the House System will change that.


The Leo stellium does show kingship and fame of a sort.

Clinton has no stellium, and Leo stelliums are not signs of "kingship" or fame.



I know his chart backwards as it is mine also with differences....of course.....

Yes, of course, there's always a difference.

I am adamant about the 10th house and fame. I challenge anyone to show me a verified chart of someone famous or infamous with no 10th house connections.

I see we're in retreat mode.

Now instead of Planets in the 10th, it's 10th House connections. So what exactly are 10th House connections? Aspects? Are we looking at Ptolemaic aspects or would that include Asteroid Vomit making a duohexadsequisemibiquintilesillyquadrate to the MC?

That would be easy: Kenneth Brannagh. He has no Planets in the 10th House (and that means none of the Outers), and there are no Nodes in the 10th House and no Plants aspect the MC.

Bob Geldof would be another (he's also Irish like Brannagh).

I could list a few dozen more if you want.

I do agree that tenth house connections will play a role in the charts of some people; however clearly those without tenth house planets can become renown.

Statistically, 90% of charts will have a Planet in the 10th House, or a Planet in aspect to the MC.

That proves nothing and you're right, there are 1000s of famous people with no Planets in the 10th House (regardless of House System used).

Traditional astrology has methods that not only determine fame (much more accurately and consistently), bu determines the level of fame, what kind of fame, how the fame is achieved, how long the fame lasts (until someone is relegated to total obscurity), and when they will achieve fame (and when they will lose it if that is the case).

Modern astrology is a roll-of-the-dice. Keep telling people with Planets in the 10th House they'll be famous and maybe out of 10,000 charts they'll get one right. Heck, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

There are 308 Million people in the US, but only 315,000 earn more than $1 Million per year, and about half of those 315,000 are entertainers or in the entertainment industry or athletes.

That's just over 0.1% so that should tell people that neither fame nor wealth is easy to achieve regardless of how many Planets are in the 10th or whatever "connections" might exist.

[RayAustin]

For me, I see fame as one of the more elusive things to see in a natal chart--and after my research thus far find using part of fortune to be the most reliable method (in other words, I'm not convinced its "the way" and never wrong, but the most reliable way); I don't see fame as something easy to spot so aggrandizing one house seems rather lacking to me.

[Claire19]

I'm beginning to think you're a representative of some sort sponsoring the tenth house. :biggrin: just kidding.
I am adamant about this.:biggrin:

[Claire19]

No, he doesn't.

Cancer is the 10th Sign and the MC (5° Cancer).

Saturn is in Leo, the 11th Sign (at 2° Leo).

Modern astrologers like Robert Pelletier, Robert Hand, Noel Tyl and about 500 others would say Saturn is so close to the 11th House Cusp that Saturn no longer has any influence or power in the 10th House; that Saturn's influence spills over into the 11th House (which is something they borrow from traditional astrology).

Traditional astrologers using Whole Sign would see Saturn in the 11th, and using other House Systems would read Saturn into the 11th since it is within 5° of the 11th House.

You modern astrologers need to get your stories straight and make up your minds.



The Nodes are Chart Points, and specifically they are empty points in space and when the Moon is there and eclipse occurs. They have no energy; give off no light, and emanate no rays, so that is a rather absurd view.

Prince Henry has the South Node in his 10th House, of course changing the House System will change that.




Clinton has no stellium, and Leo stelliums are not signs of "kingship" or fame.



Yes, of course, there's always a difference.



I see we're in retreat mode.

Now instead of Planets in the 10th, it's 10th House connections. So what exactly are 10th House connections? Aspects? Are we looking at Ptolemaic aspects or would that include Asteroid Vomit making a duohexadsequisemibiquintilesillyquadrate to the MC?

That would be easy: Kenneth Brannagh. He has no Planets in the 10th House (and that means none of the Outers), and there are no Nodes in the 10th House and no Plants aspect the MC.

Bob Geldof would be another (he's also Irish like Brannagh).

I could list a few dozen more if you want.



Statistically, 90% of charts will have a Planet in the 10th House, or a Planet in aspect to the MC.

That proves nothing and you're right, there are 1000s of famous people with no Planets in the 10th House (regardless of House System used).

Traditional astrology has methods that not only determine fame (much more accurately and consistently), bu determines the level of fame, what kind of fame, how the fame is achieved, how long the fame lasts (until someone is relegated to total obscurity), and when they will achieve fame (and when they will lose it if that is the case).

Modern astrology is a roll-of-the-dice. Keep telling people with Planets in the 10th House they'll be famous and maybe out of 10,000 charts they'll get one right. Heck, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

There are 308 Million people in the US, but only 315,000 earn more than $1 Million per year, and about half of those 315,000 are entertainers or in the entertainment industry or athletes.

That's just over 0.1% so that should tell people that neither fame nor wealth is easy to achieve regardless of how many Planets are in the 10th or whatever "connections" might exist.
Whether nodes give off light or not they are extremely influential and I would suggest you read up on them.

I dont know what chart you are using for Clinton but he has two stelliums and Mercury and Saturn are in the 10th!!!!!!... . I am his twin as it happens and you cant tell me we dont have any stellliums. :annoyed: I have been practising astrology for 30 years, mate.

Load some charts of famous people with no significant planets in the 10th or connections to the 10th ruler. Globally known and not just in the US for instance.....I want to see them....

[RayAustin]

Marlon Brando and Steve McQueen didn't have any planets in 10. They count as famous?

I have no idea what you mean by 'significant' planets contacting the MC, though. That kind of skews it. What's the difference between significant and insignificant planets?

Obviously she has me on ignore, that or she's blatantly ignoring my information. I think it would be awesome if Claire would do her part and prove her point too instead of solely expecting everyone who disagrees with her to do it. :smile:

[RayAustin]

dont know what chart you are using for Clinton but he has two stelliums and Mercury and Saturn are in the 10th!!!!!!... . I am his twin as it happens and you cant tell me we dont have any stellliums. I have been practising astrology for 30 years, mate.

Obviously if you're his astro-twin as I'm assuming, saying Leo stelliums indicate kingship and fame is a bit unaccurate, isn't it? Are you a "king" and "famous"? Maybe I'm a little anal, but in my own practice I'd appreciate a method with at least 85% accuracy or more; which generalizations like "leo stelliums indicate kingship and fame" don't fall into.

Load some charts of famous people with no significant planets in the 10th or connections to the 10th ruler. Globally known and not just in the US for instance.....I want to see them....

And will you grant the "naysayers" the same generous demand? If you aren't even willing to back what you're saying up but expect others to, I don't see you having very much support in your argument which is a shame for a worthy debate.

[dperez3894]

I wonder what my chart says about fame?

Back on August 6th, the Grand Cross hit my Ascendant, IC, Descendant and Midheaven.

The Winter Solstice Lunar Eclipse was in the 28th degree of my 9th House but may have conjuncted the Midheaven because it was within the 5 degree cusp of Cancer and within a 2 degree orb of the MC.

The next five Solar eclipses are going to hit the following;

1. North Node in 4th House Capricorn - January 4th, 2011

2. Saturn in 9th House Gemini(handle of my bucket chart) - June 1st, 2011

3. Part of Fortune in 10th House Cancer - July 1st, 2011

4. Neptune in 3rd House Sagittarius - November 25th, 2011

5. Exactly on the 8th/9th House cusp - May 20th, 2012

[Claire19]

The 10th house is a very sharp double edged sword. Does it bring fame, sure mostly, though it can simply be famous around neighborhood instead of world fame, but it also brings many problems with it. 10th is angular, a planet there is a visible planet so to speak.

Usually, fame indicators are sun, moon, jupiter and venus. How would you feel having this planets out there for all to see? If you crave fame then woohoo, if not however, with personal planets there you'd run to somewhere and hide. Not to mention, bad publicity is still publicity. What I mean by this is when things go nasty you may get the blame for it especially things related to career which is pretty much what this house is about. If you do your job right and things go well, you get a grand applause moment, do a mistake and the booing is just as loud.
The 10th is our public image and reputation and not necessarily fame or glory.......It deals with our issues with our goals, how we handle authority including parenting and it can indicate our landlords, bosses etc. OUr vocation and career which may not be at all prominent or in the limelight.

[Claire19]

Obviously if you're his astro-twin as I'm assuming, saying Leo stelliums indicate kingship and fame is a bit unaccurate, isn't it? Are you a "king" and "famous"? Maybe I'm a little anal, but in my own practice I'd appreciate a method with at least 85% accuracy or more; which generalizations like "leo stelliums indicate kingship and fame" don't fall into.


And will you grant the "naysayers" the same generous demand? If you aren't even willing to back what you're saying up but expect others to, I don't see you having very much support in your argument which is a shame for a worthy debate.I can back up what I am saying with Clinton for instance and I have in former posts?????...I dont know why you feel that he has no pointers for public life for instance.

I can post his chart if you wish. He has two stelliums, one in the 1st and another across 10/11th but with conjunctions.

I have mine in the 6th and 8th houses. We were born at different times and in different countries.

If you can post charts of famous people with no 10th house influences I would be glad to see them as I have said. I dont think you can.

[Claire19]

There has been comment that Bill Clinton has no aspects for fame or public life. Just to set the record straight. He has a Leo Stellium across the 10th and 11th with Saturn, planet of politics in the politicians house....conjunct Mercury for oration on the public statg. He has two stelliums although there has been comment he has none. There are many other aspects but wont go into them here.

I worry that people are charging money for readings and calling themselves professional when they cant discern the basics.

[RayAustin]

I can back up what I am saying with Clinton for instance and I have in former posts?????...I dont know why you feel that he has no pointers for public life for instance.
I never said that. :smile:

If you can post charts of famous people with no 10th house influences I would be glad to see them as I have said. I dont think you can.
Claire .. I've already done that. :lol:

[virgo18]

Percy Bysse Shelley, Mick Jagger, Madonna, Barack Obama....there are a whole lot of folks who don't have tenth house planets who ended up famous nonetheless, which is all we've been trying to say.


Yes, not only the planets tenth house.
It is true that is the most common aspect of fame, specially the major planets in the 10th house could bring a "good name". All the 4 cardinal houses also work the same... I mean: 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th.... Most if they are the Sun, Moon (luminaries), venus(beauty), mars(courage) or Jupiter(expansion).
Also the sign of the cusp of the 10th: for example a Leo, or libra cusp "could" bring some fame but in a lower level... I think its logic.
Also the fame will not arrive if you are not doing anything to be recognized. That aspects will help you to be famous without doing much effort, but you have to do something also to achieve that. I mean you cannot just sit there waiting for the fame to come without doing anything.


Good luck

[RayAustin]

Yes, not only the planets tenth house.
It is true that is the most common aspect of fame, specially the major planets in the 10th house could bring a "good name".
Yes, of course it's great to have a fortified 10th house, it's more likely that you'll have a great reputation. I'm sure many of us could agree there was a time when reputation mattered; now if anything an ill-reputation seems to give more publicity and success. :smile:


Also the fame will not arrive if you are not doing anything to be recognized
I don't think that's universally true, no--there are people made famous by others efforts. Look up Antoine Dodson, to know what I mean. Someone made a song out of an appearance on the news of him complaining about his sister getting attacked. Anyway, someone made a song out of that and he grew rather famous because of it. I do believe in some sense, fame comes to people as well. Of course, not all the time. :smile:

[eternalautumn]

I don't think that's universally true, no--there are people made famous by others efforts. Look up Antoine Dodson, to know what I mean. Someone made a song out of an appearance on the news of him complaining about his sister getting attacked. Anyway, someone made a song out of that and he grew rather famous because of it. I do believe in some sense, fame comes to people as well. Of course, not all the time.

Hide ya kids, hide ya wives, and hide ya husbands...

Good point, though. :smile:

[RayAustin]

Haha, thanks. :smile:

[Claire19]

I never said that. :smile:


Claire .. I've already done that. :lol:
What I should have said is that there has to be aspects to the MC or MIdheaven for fame or infamy......Not just the 10th house.......and yes there are famous people with no planets in the 10th from what I can gather... .I will investigate those that have been quoted here and bearing in mind we have to rely on what is on the sites for the correct time of birth which may or may not be accurate.

However Barack Obama with a time of 7.24 pm Hawaii has Mercury trine MC,. Moon opposing it and Pluto and Uranus squaring it.

If I can find any of those that are quoted here with no aspects to the MC or the 10th then I will concede that I am wrong.

[dperez3894]

What I should have said is that there has to be aspects to the MC or MIdheaven for fame or infamy......Not just the 10th house.......and yes there are famous people with no planets in the 10th from what I can gather...

Then I wonder what these aspects in my chart portend;

Pluto in Libra(Conjunct ASC) Square MC in Cancer

Sun/Venus Conjunction in Aries Square MC in Cancer

Jupiter in Aquarius BiQuintile MC in Cancer

Uranus in Libra Trine MC in Cancer

Mars in Aquarius Inconjunct MC in Cancer

Vertex in Aries Square MC in Cancer

and my Part of Fortune is in Cancer in the 10th House

[Kerrie]

This is an open forum for everyone to contribute, we all should know by now astrology has grey areas and we are ALL learning to further define them.

People shouldnt be made to feel like they cant write their opinion in case of getting shot down by others that dont feel the same way.

Sure say your opinion, but dont keep on going on about it, it makes me feel very uneasy and probably other people reading it too.

[RayAustin]

Hi Kerrie,
I have a problem with people making aggrandized statements with no foundation other than bias; apparently I'm not the only one. There's no victims here--no one's ganging up on anyone, rather I feel the truth of the matter (the fame topic) is being addressed.

This is a very popular thread, and there will be people reading some opinions and thinking that's the case, especially if someone claims they've been "doing this for 30 years". There's simply no grey area about the statement "tenth house planets are necessary to fame", people are voicing from observation, not bias, that the statement simply isn't true as we looked through charts and easily proved it wrong. This shouldn't be taken as "shooting down" someone, Kerrie, especially when the person made no effort to prove their opinion.

This thread was based off my article (pretty sure), I take very seriously exploring the truth about the "astrology of fame" so yes, I will address misnomers because people are interested in the truth, not biases.

You didn't clearly specify but I'm assuming what you're talking about.

Yawn, it's late. :smile:
R.a.

[Claire19]

Percy Bysse Shelley, Mick Jagger, Madonna, Barack Obama....there are a whole lot of folks who don't have tenth house planets who ended up famous nonetheless, which is all we've been trying to say.
Aspects to the 10th or MC is what was meant. All these charts have them. We are relying on data from sites that may or may not be accurate with birthtime but nevertheless...

[Claire19]

Then I wonder what these aspects in my chart portend;

Pluto in Libra(Conjunct ASC) Square MC in Cancer

Sun/Venus Conjunction in Aries Square MC in Cancer

Jupiter in Aquarius BiQuintile MC in Cancer

Uranus in Libra Trine MC in Cancer

Mars in Aquarius Inconjunct MC in Cancer

Vertex in Aries Square MC in Cancer

and my Part of Fortune is in Cancer in the 10th House
Cancer in the 10th can mean working at home and is not a comfortable sign there which belongs naturally to Capricorn. I dont use biquintiles or vertex with aspects but you have a mix of positive and negative aspects.
If Uranus is in trine to MC Cancer from Libra, then it is dissociate and out of sign..... it can still be valid but weaker.

[Claire19]

This is an open forum for everyone to contribute, we all should know by now astrology has grey areas and we are ALL learning to further define them.

People shouldnt be made to feel like they cant write their opinion in case of getting shot down by others that dont feel the same way.

Sure say your opinion, but dont keep on going on about it, it makes me feel very uneasy and probably other people reading it too.
You dont have to read the contributions if you feel uncomfortable. This is a fairly open forum. THrashing out various issues is what some of us like to do. There is already too much censorship on this forum and if you want to feel uncomfortable go to Astrodienst for instance. People say exactly what they like there and no offensive remarks deleted, they can just deal with it as the adults they are.

[RayAustin]

There is already too much censorship on this forum
I agree with you on that. :smile:

[Claire19]

What are your thoughts on Jupiter in 5th house, mars in 6th house, both in scorpio, venus in leo in 3rd house and sun in virgo in 4th house?
Regarding???? And with what aspects????

[Claire19]

I agree with you on that. :smile:
I particularly like the deletion of p0rn.........is this American puritanism that I hear about??? taking it too far.......:smile:

[Kerrie]

Hi Kerrie,
I have a problem with people making aggrandized statements with no foundation other than bias; apparently I'm not the only one. There's no victims here--no one's ganging up on anyone, rather I feel the truth of the matter (the fame topic) is being addressed.

This is a very popular thread, and there will be people reading some opinions and thinking that's the case, especially if someone claims they've been "doing this for 30 years". There's simply no grey area about the statement "tenth house planets are necessary to fame", people are voicing from observation, not bias, that the statement simply isn't true as we looked through charts and easily proved it wrong. This shouldn't be taken as "shooting down" someone, Kerrie, especially when the person made no effort to prove their opinion.

This thread was based off my article (pretty sure), I take very seriously exploring the truth about the "astrology of fame" so yes, I will address misnomers because people are interested in the truth, not biases.

You didn't clearly specify but I'm assuming what you're talking about.

Yawn, it's late. :smile:
R.a.
I disagree and I think one person was being attacked and was asked to prove it, many times!!! Say it once but seriously dont keep on repeating yourself, and getting nasty.

RA you are very knowledgable on astrology but you are no expert. The word famous or fame isnt even clearly defined, there are so many variables to it, which was pointed out in some earlier posts.

If you noticed anything in the proceeding posts after the comment you would have realised then the poster then added aspects to the MC, which you havent taken much notice off.

This thread wasnt based on your article it was started by Yashkaran Sharma and based upon his/her opinion. You added your opinion just like others added their opinion.

Just to let you know RA, actually you are not holder of the truth of the astrology of fame!

[RayAustin]

I disagree and I think one person was being attacked and was asked to prove it, many times!!! Say it once but seriously dont keep on repeating yourself, and getting nasty.
Kerrie, no one was getting nasty. This is a text-based medium. You can't assume so much through text. I was repeatedly addressing a person who was also repeating themself. And so what if someone was asked to prove it? If someone's going to state a point over and over again extremely adamantly, the least they could do is prove it (which in this context isn't hard) -- which by the way, I did initially.

Some people are too afraid of ideas being challenged here. As Claire alluded, it's all in good fun. :smile: And guess what? It's a more worthwhile exchange when people are actually backing up their views with some data and we are looking at charts--it's more of a learning experience--instead of exchanging superficial information.

Just to let you know RA, actually you are not holder of the truth of the astrology of fame!
I never said I was so I'd appreciate if you don't put that on me; but I do know the truth (as do others who have pointed out on this thread) about planets in the tenth house's effect in this regard -- they do not determine fame reliably or are necessary for it. It's a simple fact easily proven after looking through a few charts.

That's all I've been saying, I've only expressed that the method I use is the most reliable one after going through celebrity charts--I never, ever, said it was the end-all be-all method so you are off the mark. By the way, I have helped you before non-judgmentally. I'd appreciate any reciprocation.

peace,
R.a.

[RayAustin]

(removed from post above to expand on)

If you noticed anything in the proceeding posts after the comment you would have realised then the poster then added aspects to the MC, which you havent taken much notice off.

Yes I did notice, Kerrie, actually. :smile: I had nothing to say other than that it was an addendum to her initial argument but I can address it further now. Aspects to the MC I don't think would indicate fame as much as they would indicate the person's reputation. You also have to qualify the planet.

The lot of fortune method is complex focusing on the overall configuration of the key player planets in the chart, which gives it a higher chance for reliability, but not extremely so. For instance, an eminent chart in whole sign could exist for those born during a period of approximately one-two hours in an area. These are much better odds than considering non-MC aspects alone for fame indication that can affect thousands. Aspects to the MC have a much smaller time frame of around twenty minutes (giving a five degree orb), which is good so there's something there--however the aspect would still be subject to the rest of the chart, while the LoF method inherently considers that.

Either way, only relentless investigation could prove that true or false. Aspects to the MC indicating fame would probably be harder to prove than the lot of fortune method.

[Courtney Love]

I think a real issue is about what everyone thinks fame is. When someone mentions Antoine Dodson, I have to laugh because, surely you aren't calling that fame??? he's well known, absolutely, but he's a joke to way too many people, and his "fame" has no legs, he'll be obscure within minutes.

When you guys talk about fame, I think of movie stars, rockstars, people who have spent many many years in the public eye, and are wealthy because of it. I don't think of one-hit wonders and youtube curiosities that we won't remember in 6 months time.

I want someone to explain Madonna's 25+ year fame, Mick Jagger's 40+ year fame, Brad Pitt's and Angelina's fame, I want someone to explain the superhugely famous people who've captured the public's interest and heart, like, out of all the royals, Princess Diana. Some people become supernovas, some people are important for 15 minutes and then vanish (Monica Lewinsky), what is the difference? Some people do a tv show and become hugely famous, then leave the show for a movie career that never happens. It's not a question of talent, something more is going on.

In terms of sustained long-lasting fame, what's the key? I'm with Claire and thinking the 10th house is key. RayAustin, I'm really interested in what you've said about the lot of fortune, can you break it down with someone's chart, like Madonna (whom I hate...)? I know you're saying it's hard to judge text, but honestly you just sound like you're coming along and slapping Claire's hand about the 10th house (No! it's not just the 10th. you are wrong!) and I'd really like some concrete details from you if you felt like sharing it.

[RayAustin]

Hi, C-Love!
I think a real issue is about what everyone thinks fame is. When someone mentions Antoine Dodson, I have to laugh because, surely you aren't calling that fame??? he's well known, absolutely, but he's a joke to way too many people, and his "fame" has no legs, he'll be obscure within minutes.
I am serious about Antoine Dodson, he is famous and people do genuinely like him. If you look at his youtube channel comments he has lots of supporters. For someone whose "fame" has no legs, he's certainly milking it--commercial deals, has his own halloween costume which was the top costume of 2010 (last year was Lady Gaga, I think), he has made an impact on culture, intentionally or not. He is not the same as other viral individuals. People like him, and stop him to take pictures and signatures when he's in public. Surely, that's fame. There are a lot of people famous with "no legs", i.e. Kim Kardashian, the Jersey Shore group .. etc.

When you guys talk about fame, I think of movie stars, rockstars, people who have spent many many years in the public eye, and are wealthy because of it. I don't think of one-hit wonders and youtube curiosities that we won't remember in 6 months time.

I don't think you meant that all youtube celebrities are not comparative to regular celebrities. They certainly are approaching the same level. Youtubers are getting movie deals (deals with Disney et al, that's signficant) and other licensing deals, just like regular celebrities. The game of fame has changed overwhelmingly.

I want someone to explain Madonna's 25+ year fame, Mick Jagger's 40+ year fame, Brad Pitt's and Angelina's fame, I want someone to explain the superhugely famous people who've captured the public's interest and heart, like, out of all the royals, Princess Diana. Some people become supernovas, some people are important for 15 minutes and then vanish (Monica Lewinsky), what is the difference? Some people do a tv show and become hugely famous, then leave the show for a movie career that never happens. It's not a question of talent, something more is going on.

I will do it! Eventually. :smile:

In terms of sustained long-lasting fame, what's the key? I'm with Claire and thinking the 10th house is key. RayAustin, I'm really interested in what you've said about the lot of fortune, can you break it down with someone's chart, like Madonna (whom I hate...)?
I'm not saying I know for sure, but my assumption is that long sustaining fame means that the fame bringing planets must be dignified, strongly placed without affliction and/or great assistance from benefic planets. It will be an interesting study to start looking at famous individual's charts who have long sustained fame and observe any common signatures. My belief in dignification stems from the fact that a planet in its fall, will show a fall of some sort. Yes, I'll go over Madonna's chart, I'd love to. :smile:

I know you're saying it's hard to judge text, but honestly you just sound like you're coming along and slapping Claire's hand about the 10th house (No! it's not just the 10th. you are wrong!) and I'd really like some concrete details from you if you felt like sharing it.
I understand, it's just her comment about planets in the tenth house necessary for fame is simply not true and I'm leaving it at that. I'm sure I previously mentioned famous individuals without any 10th house planets, as have others in the thread--so that really should have put it to a rest, lol. I'll leave it that. I apologize for being overbearing but I am passionate about the truth, that's all--especially when there is evidence to prove it. :kissing:

[RayAustin]

Basic analysis of Madonna's Chart
7Am | Bay City, MI | Aug 16, 1958 | Diurnal

Lot of Fortune - The Magnitude of Fortune
The lot of fortune lies in the ascendant, making it powerful by its angularity; the ruler Mercury is in his exaltation, rulership, and term--making it extremely powerful--as Dorotheus in Carmen Astrologicum says of the lot of fortune: "the best is if the ruler is in its triplicity, term, house, or exaltation". Here we have it angular and highly dignified. This indicates a great magnitude of fortune from mercurial (intellectual, communicative) mastery. Note that Mercury rules the midheaven, showing the native to have an illustrious reputation (as well as the lord of the tenth from fortune and natal dignified in the first to show great general success). Mercury is debilitated by being retrograde, showing this greater fortune slowly manifests. In any event, after looking at charts--this is a very rarely fortunate placement.

Mercury is well placed in his "joy" in the first house. Objectively, this is the chart of an extremely intelligent person. The chart obviously exclaims that she is smarter than some may like to admit, and got to where she is using her wits.

I mentioned in an earlier post my assumption that a person with long-lasting fame and success would have a lot ruler extremely well placed. Well, Madonna's configuration of Mercury certainly qualifies and defines what I mean.

Lot of Exaltation - How High One Rises
The lot of exaltation falls in Aquarius. Its ruler is Saturn. Saturn is well placed in Sagittarius being his triplicity, and angular. Angularity supports a person to high rank.

There are other things to consider like the trigon lords I can go into as well, but I am stopping here for now. :smile:

[RayAustin]

If anyone would like, we could compare a "regular" person's chart to someone who is really famous.

[Claire19]

Or that which fastens to a bolt, a/k/a a *****

See what I mean?
what is that word??? Just put a number in the mix...:smile:

[Skillcoil]

If anyone would like, we could compare a "regular" person's chart to someone who is really famous.

I'm a regular person :) I thought about fame but I wouldn't like the reality of it, lol.

[RayAustin]

I'm a regular person :) I thought about fame but I wouldn't like the reality of it, lol.

We could, but you are still young; who knows what could be in store for you. Maybe someone older. :lol:

[RayAustin]

I want to see if anyone whose not famous has an impressive chart like a famous person. I have a feeling I might not see that, though.

[Skillcoil]

We could, but you are still young; who knows what could be in store for you. Maybe someone older. :lol:

I see, I know a few older people with modern astrology fame indicators, such as tenth house stelliums, who aren't well known. I agree with it involving more intricate methods.

[Claire19]

I see, I know a few older people with modern astrology fame indicators, such as tenth house stelliums, who aren't well known. I agree with it involving more intricate methods.
Yes having 10th house stelliums doesnt indicate fame as such necessarily. Just strong issues with career, reputation, status, father issues or at least parental and authority. Being able to read a chart in its entirety and properly taking all aspects into account is the essence of astrology. This takes lots of practice once the principles are learned.

[Courtney Love]

Really liked your Madonna Analysis, RA! Am studying your post more, and it's only depressing because i do not have a strong PoF like Madge, but I'm trying!

My chart ruler is jupiter (but retrograde, sadly) exalted in Cancer in the 7th, but.... I don't have high hopes for worldly success. and I blame Madonna for that, heh.

[RayAustin]

Really liked your Madonna Analysis, RA! Am studying your post more, and it's only depressing because i do not have a strong PoF like Madge, but I'm trying!

My chart ruler is jupiter (but retrograde, sadly) exalted in Cancer in the 7th, but.... I don't have high hopes for worldly success. and I blame Madonna for that, heh.

Hey, I've been looking at other famous people charts, and there are retrograde planets involved (-on- the lot of fortune no less!) .. it's interesting what you can see, I'm gonna make a thread on this. You must be going off your chart in non whole sign.. remember to consider that.. [whole sign] I assume your ascendant is in Sagittarius, Jupiter would be in eighth house whole sign. The ascendant lord exalted is very good, but Jupiter isn't well placed because it cannot see the ascendant from the eighth house. That said, I've also seen eminent charts where rulers were placed badly but still other configurations in the chart can help immensely.

Also, it is suggested by Valens' that the "fortune chart" is more important so you need to consider that as well.

[Courtney Love]

Yes, upon changing the chart to whole sign, jupiter is now in the 8th. my part of fortune is 7 degrees scorpio, but the question is who rules it, Mars or Pluto?

In my chart, equal house, the 10th house from the PoF is in leo, mars is in it. So if Mars is the ruler of my scorpio PoF, it's located in the 10th house from the PoF, so that's decent, yeah?

[RayAustin]

Yes, upon changing the chart to whole sign, jupiter is now in the 8th. my part of fortune is 7 degrees scorpio, but the question is who rules it, Mars or Pluto?
Of course we're going to consider Mars as the ruler for practical purpose.


In my chart, equal house, the 10th house from the PoF is in leo, mars is in it. So if Mars is the ruler of my scorpio PoF, it's located in the 10th house from the PoF, so that's decent, yeah?


That's more than decent! :smile: That's a very good placement which would be much better if you were born at night! Mars while well placed accidentally would I think, be an affliction to the tenth house from fortune at the same time while peregrine, especially in a day chart. Also, I don't think you're saying this or but mentioning whole sign as equal house is confusing. The two systems are similar, but not equivalent.

Would you mind me looking at your chart?

[Courtney Love]

When you say born at night, I assume you mean a night chart, because while I was born in the morning, the sun was in the 1st, making this a night chart.... so... I would say yay me, but I've wasted most of my life and really have no idea what to do with myself... here's my chart. I meant Whole signs, I just misstyped is all...

[Olivia]

You're a lot younger than me, Courtney, but I can see some similarities in our charts - I also have Fortuna in 12 ruled by and squared by Mars, though in my case it's Mars in the 4th place. And you've got Mars retrograde, which - I don't know - it might slow it down some, in your situation that could be a good thing. How has it played out?

You have a good ascendant ruler in one sense, Jupiter's exalted, but it can't see the ascendant from Cancer, which is a major debility - and it's retrograde. There's no exaltation ruler for Sag, and the fire triplicity ruler at night is also Jupiter, so....not so great. But Sun in 1 mitigates somewhat at least, or ought to give you a bit of luck.

Fortuna in 12 ruled by malefics is not a happy indicator, as a rule (though there are factors that can mitigate). Have a look at this bit from Rhetorius (http://www.hellenisticastrology.com/wiki/index.php/Rhetorius_of_Egypt_-_The_Twelve_Places). You needn't search, the English is in the right-hand column, and he starts with the 12th house.

It's been pretty accurate in my life, don't know about yours. This much on the good side at least has been true for me: And the lord of the fourth place found here foretells of accomplishments in foreign lands, though not as much as I would have hoped. Still, not bad, either.

Which is probably something to do with the association of the 12th house and exile (I'm a refugee).

[RayAustin]

Yes, Mars squares to fortune are very unfortunate. Dorotheus wrote in Carmen Astrologicum, "If the lord of fortune/fortune squares Mars, there is no good in it"--however, I'm sure benefic aspects could alleviate things as he mentions elsewhere they can for other unfortunate configurations. I have a Mars square to fortune as well, thankfully some stuff to alleviate it too. I have definitely felt the effects.

I think it means success/whatever "fortune" you have will always be challenged by destruction. Also .. Valens says fortune doubles as the ascendant and the body of the native so any challenging aspects could represent physical trouble as well.

[Claire19]

[QUOTE=Claire19;143999]Only the planets connected to and in the 10th indication of fame. Jupiter in the 10th for instance can bring fortune in the public arena. Moon there can bring rapport with the public for instance. We also need to look at the 6th for employment on everyday level and perhaps the 2nd for indication of wealth and personal income.

N


I have Jupiter in the 10th and I don't see any fortune coming my way any time soon. Can you see my chart: DOB;6/18/62 Time; 3.58AM Place;Rajpura India
Having Jupiter there is not necessarily indicative of fame and fortune as I have mentioned before.

If you can load a natal chart with transits and progressions from Astrodienst, I can look at it.

[Claire19]

[QUOTE=Skillcoil;259584]I see, I know a few older people with modern astrology fame indicators, such as tenth house stelliums, who aren't well known. I agree with it involving more intricate methods.[/QUOTE. The 10th also deals with many other matters, it has to be remembered. For instance it can be indicative of the father and the way he is perceived.

[nuwanda]

I have Sun (the ruler of the 10th house) right on the IC, conjunct Mercury (only 8 degrees, but astro.com claims it's a conjunct) part of fortune in Capricorn conjunct Neptune, and Saturn, the ruler of Capricorn conjunct Venus and Uranus. Moon trine MC. Pluto square Mc. (I hate this.)

I think the Sun on the IC bit is a big no no on the famous thing.

[Claire19]

Let's see. I've got Mercury in the 4th house. I've got Jupiter in the 10th house.

The Moon in the 11th.

The lord of the 1st is in the 4th, the lord of the 5th is in the 4th, the lord of the 7th is in the 4th, and the lord of the 10th is in the 7th.

According to that some measure of fame and name is written in the stars for me.

I do tend to agree with Joseph in this regard though. This is where the Lot of Fortune and the Trigon lords should come into place.
NOne of what you have quoted guarantees fame or glory.... So few can handle it anyway.

[RayAustin]

For instance it can be indicative of the father and the way he is perceived.
Hmm.. that's a new one. The mother is usually the tenth.

[RayAustin]

I think the Sun on the IC bit is a big no no on the famous thing.
Well it's true that the fourth house is more subterraneous, and "hidden", but so is the twelfth (which is worse) and a number of famous people have the Sun in the twelfth. Vettius Valens refers to the fourth house as the "lower midheaven".

[Courtney Love]

You're a lot younger than me, Courtney, but I can see some similarities in our charts - I also have Fortuna in 12 ruled by and squared by Mars, though in my case it's Mars in the 4th place. And you've got Mars retrograde, which - I don't know - it might slow it down some, in your situation that could be a good thing. How has it played out?

You have a good ascendant ruler in one sense, Jupiter's exalted, but it can't see the ascendant from Cancer, which is a major debility - and it's retrograde. There's no exaltation ruler for Sag, and the fire triplicity ruler at night is also Jupiter, so....not so great. But Sun in 1 mitigates somewhat at least, or ought to give you a bit of luck.

Fortuna in 12 ruled by malefics is not a happy indicator, as a rule (though there are factors that can mitigate). Have a look at this bit from Rhetorius (http://www.hellenisticastrology.com/wiki/index.php/Rhetorius_of_Egypt_-_The_Twelve_Places). You needn't search, the English is in the right-hand column, and he starts with the 12th house.

It's been pretty accurate in my life, don't know about yours. This much on the good side at least has been true for me: And the lord of the fourth place found here foretells of accomplishments in foreign lands, though not as much as I would have hoped. Still, not bad, either.

Which is probably something to do with the association of the 12th house and exile (I'm a refugee).

I don't understand what you mean by fortuna in the 12th. My poF is in the 11th... My life has sucked outloud, I have terrible health, and no money. It's largely my own laziness/disinterest in things, but I'd roll the dice on a new life any day of the week, to be honest. And sadly, i didn't understand much of the Rhetorius article...

[07.Re]

I don't understand what you mean by fortuna in the 12th. My poF is in the 11th

The chart you posted above (in whole signs) clearly shows POF in 12th.

[Olivia]

I have Sun (the ruler of the 10th house) right on the IC, conjunct Mercury (only 8 degrees, but astro.com claims it's a conjunct) part of fortune in Capricorn conjunct Neptune, and Saturn, the ruler of Capricorn conjunct Venus and Uranus. Moon trine MC. Pluto square Mc. (I hate this.)

I think the Sun on the IC bit is a big no no on the famous thing.

According to Lilly, you may have a shot at finding some buried treasure. You'd probably want Venus or Jupiter there for it to be worth much, but who knows these days? Old coins, perhaps? Mercury is currency, amongst other things. Sun actually could be old GOLD coins, or royal regalia of some sort.

Worth checking into if you ever find yourself in the situation. Seriously.

[Courtney Love]

The chart you posted above (in whole signs) clearly shows POF in 12th.


oh right, I'd forgotten about the whole signs version...

I'm not surprised that I have the mars square fortune issue, I mean I know my life, It's most like this aspect: partially good (ruler of fortune in the 10th house from fortune), and then one HUGE issue (mars square fortune being the worse..) marring it all.

One note, Mars is not actually retro in my chart, it's stationary, which is probably worse. yay me!

[beginner]

What are the influence of chiron in 10th house?








I dont agree that everyone aspires to fame and glory. No way. Some actually avoid it. The 10th house has to be involved for a public life of any sort. I should modify that by saying aspects to the MC or Midheaven have to be there if no planets in the actual 10th house.

Sun in 10th, good for performing arts, Saturn there for politics, Mars there for a drive to be famous and perhaps as a risk taker of some kind, dare devil. Prominent surgeon... Venus there can be famous for arts and music. Neptune there can mean famous film star and one who lends glamour and mystery, charisma..... Moon there can mean mother is famous or is a mother figure to the public. Or a connection to the masses on an emotional level. Uranus there can mean a famous astrologer, radio or television star, an inventor or scientist. Pluto there can be a famous hypnotist, one who can manipulate the masses, often with sexuality. These are only scenarios and general.

[positive]

I am so happy.. I also think (and mentioned it before in the forum) that the part of fortune is quite an indicator. Especially with good aspects, though bad aspects from jupiter (benefics in general) are not as bad as saturn or mars aspects (even if they are harmonious).

To say my opinion, I think 10 th house is quite important as it brings you in contact with the public. but it could be even maybe in just appearing in the newspaper (because well everything, being robbed, or beaten up tragically, or being filmed robbing a bank, or beeing snapped because catching a thief etc) so the quality of the tenth house defintely plays a role.. bad transits, be careful something can come to public (especially when you are already a popular, famous person), especially I mean the ruler..

and as said before first house is important (so, angular houses), planets there (well aspected, dignified etc) make is surely easier to archieve something if you want to. (resp. the ruler of AC would be nice to be in some dignities, I remmeber Schröder mentioned by rafael gil brand, has AC ruler Mars in 8 in cancer I think....(he explained it fortunately)) so AC ruler in ten is supergood, as we know I assume (we all don´t have it)

the fourth house on this topic could mean that you become famous national, or mainly national or late in life ( I think because of cancer also politics suits).

also I know that lots of people in high status (fox founder, I think was once mentioned) have 12th house planets. britney spears, too just if you want to know..
I don´t see contradictions fame vs 12th H

ahh and Justin Timberlake also has a strange chart related to "fame" on the first look no indications (mars in seven)

but I think, which is also important, or at least a point, is to consider the orbs, the more tighter the more talented, and hopefully lots of them are tight (I think that was one of timberlakes excuses, well I am not an expert)


cautionly said fixed stars can also help, Regiulus, Sirius, Spica, significant on AC )tight orb)

I am going to search for some datas, because my freaking horoscope is totally virgo and sixth house (not only sun or so, but totally), and I definetly saw lots of prominents with 8th house or 12th house placements, but sixht rarely (but obama has, a bit at least..) so if you have sixth house placemnts on this topic in petto I d be curious...

Jupiter pluto indication for wealth, but that isn´t a secret, isn´t it.

Luminaries should have contact to the axis, to reign instead of being reigned..

thats all for now

thanx for your insights

p

[positive]

What are the influence of chiron in 10th house?

I am no expert, but personally I think it is not so important. --

[SniperBomber328]

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[SniperBomber328]

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[dperez3894]

If anyone would like, we could compare a "regular" person's chart to someone who is really famous.

Try this one.

[positive]

Haha I have that one. My Sun is in the 1st House Scorpio, and is the Ruler of my 10th House Leo.

I am actually very 1st House Oriented. Since I am a Scorpio ASC, Pluto is found here along with Mercury, and Mars, all conjunct one-another.
Also Jupiter (Found in the 12th House Libra) is Conjunct my ASC, along with my Sun, although my Sun is found in the 1st House. Sun conjuncts my Jupiter too, but that may be bad or good.

Venus is also in my 12th House Libra, Sextile to my MC, and my Moon, in the 5th House Pisces, Trine all my planets in the 1st House, except Jupiter which it Bi-Quintiles, and Sun which it Sequiquadrates.


so you can get what you want! inclusive exclusive love affairs (as it is said for Venus in 12. I guess you are male, also foreign women could be indicated) and it sounds very very sporty..

but as I also remember, it is better AC Ruler in ten than vice versa, because in the first case YOU are getting popular/achieve something etc, in the other case it is more a good job, a good position (but it is better than 10 in 8 or 1 in 8 etc, considering Ruler of first house in first house and own sign- so pretty good, check out what you exactly want and then just pursue it, advice: look at saturn, for stable conditions)
----------

Yes I also think that a strong saturn (or good aspects) leaves you in the position in general and preserves what you have.

[SniperBomber328]

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[positive]

Yep, I have a strong Saturn. According to Astro's Walten Pullen thingy, Saturn is 4th Strongest in my Natal Chart.

Mars being at 14%
Pluto at 12%
Sun at 11% and Saturn at 10%.... My Saturn is in the 4th House Aquarius. Sadly it Squares my Mars and Pluto, and I think Mercury (Not sure on that one). Although it Trines my Jupiter and Sun :lol::joyful:. No other bad Aspects towards Saturn though.

Jupiter would have/is 5th if I don't include the Asteroids Vesta and Ceres.....

Not very sporty though, the only sport I like is Basketball. Am not really interested in Sports in general (Except Basketball, and curse those who curse it?????)


really. sad. sounded totally sporty (Mars in first, Sun Jupiter, etc),.. I like sports, also ball sports, but I hate Basketball (ball too big), I can say that because I am already cursed.

so I am curious what do you do? ever been in the spotlight or in the elite? (Jupiter sun saturn, is quite nice)

[SniperBomber328]

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[starchaser]

Does moon in 12th house make fame impossible?I have it but it's also member of a grand trine[kite actually].My PoF [not sure if i counted it correctly lol] is in 6th,conjunct Neptune ,sextile Pluto & its ruler[Saturn] is in 5th house conjunct Sun, Mercury & Venus.
Also the ruler of MC is Neptune.I've always thought that the position of my moon is quite unfortunate about fame.:o

[starchaser]

Does moon in 12th house make fame impossible?I have it but it's also member of a grand trine[kite actually].My PoF [not sure if i counted it correctly lol] is in 6th,conjunct Neptune ,sextile Pluto & its ruler[Saturn] is in 5th house conjunct Sun, Mercury & Venus.
Also the ruler of MC is Neptune.I've always thought that the position of my moon is quite unfortunate about fame.:o

My PoF could also be in 7th if i use a 'whole sign houses' system according to this: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5210

I'm really confused guys can somebody help me?:)

[bardevolved]

Hi friends i want to add up few mre findings about this. Fame and name : Indeed we all strive for as we believe that success is all about fame, name and money...or money,name and fame.

there are thousands of pople who are rich but not famous while there are very handful of people who are moderate in money but astoundingly famous and theire fame shines like the stars..

As per vedic astrology planets in 9th, vedic astrology beleives that 9th house is the house of luck..jupiter is again the natural significator of luck while in western astrology it is cadent house and any planet in a cadent house is diminished in energy...great conroversy...but i believe that all those who are in this forum have some sort of 9th house conection..check your natal charts..without 9th house help we can not even talk about or lay faith in astrology.... that does not mean that we all are famous and i think astrology is also a 8th house and uranus matter

Fame is all about 10th house any planet near MC and a strong ascd gives a lot of fame... good fame vs ill fame......i think pluto placed in 8th house success in organised crime, powerful henchman if badly aspected by melefic...if good then makes leaders of industries...

But startlingly i observed that 8th house is also to do with some kind of fame....Matt Damon has a steelium of plenats in 8th so as Jhon Travolta...and we all know how famous they are...Matt is rising and rising... yes how can i forget to mention that sylverster stallone... Rocky has 5 planets in 8th house... they are all so famous...Amitabh Bcchan and sharukh khan have a 8th house connection too.

The great zen master osho had a cluster of planets in 8th... certainly this house has something to do with fame

Br/Dipti

www.freeblogin.com (http://www.freeblogin.com)

[nyckelpigor]

So, apparently I've got sun and mercury in the 10th house (unless you use the whole chart house system, I guess), and though it doesn't show on the chart I've also got fortune in Leo (and, again, in the 10th house unless you use the whole chart house system) moon in aspect to saturn, mars, uranus, and jupiter, jupiter in aspect to the MC ruler (moon, MC in Cancer) and pisces in the 6th house, all of which some of you claimed to be indicators of fame. I'm pretty new to birth charts, so I guess I may be reading something wrong.

http://www.astro.com/tmpd/ceubfileYcL1BS-u1308437588/astro_w2at_01_katarina_hp.82448.13415.gif?19186

^ that's my birth chart. What do you think?

[danashock]

really nice notes there,i especially agree with venus conjunct the ascendant. ppl with such configuration get lots of fame and attention because they are exceptionally good looking/attractive. What about venus in midheaven?

I have also noticed that jupiter in midheaven is favourable in terms of fame and also makes one appear attractive.

Many planets in the 10th house could indicate fame,though as a shadow it makes an overly competitive type/obsessed with authority especially if there's an opposition to the 10th.

I thought about that for a while but my notes and conclusions escape me for the moment.

[naturalesoul]

so, i am wondering...does this work the same way if the planets are transiting those houses as in

[tanamarios]

i found in the arabic part calculator website , the part of fame. asc+jup-sun(am) or asc+sun-jup(pm). Mine is in 6deg 6min Taurus in the 8th , conjunct lord of exaltation and sextiles POF 5deg 28 min Cancer. My natal chart link is in my signature

[bardevolved]

Hi,

I always think the public fame is a 4th and 10th house subject. But after reading the charts of celebrities it seems that there is no definate 10th house coonection and fame. May be rightly some of you said Lot of Fortune and fame. May be that's true.

Moon and SUN the luminaries are more to do with public fame if placed in angular houses. 7th house is something do with public. Sun or moon placed in 7th house may some sign of fame ?

I always feel like I am destined to be famous. I am a bit famous but i dont have wide recognition. I really want to be filmaker who can inspire the audiances with his imagination, art and creativity.

Can anyone pls check my chart :

Neptune (film ) is near to the 11th house cusp : so the influence on 10th house is limited

Uranus co-lord ascd is near the MC : Does it act more in favour of 10th house

10th Lord jupiter

Jupiter
Sextile
Mars
1.30
Jupiter
Conjunction
Saturn
5.37
Jupiter
Sextile
Neptune
5.12
Jupiter
Quincunx
Chiron
5.28



POF is just 9 degree away from ascd ( if we consider 10 degree cusp )

Planet Longitude House
position
Sun 04 Lib 12' 10" 8
Moon 25 Vir 25' 17" 7
Mercury 29 Lib 57' 56" 8
Venus 16 Sco 46' 57" 9
Mars 15 Leo 49' 23" 6
Jupiter 17 Lib 07' 35" 8
Saturn 11 Lib 45' 31" 8
Uranus 27 Sco 15' 55" 9
Neptune 22 Sag 14' 36" 10
Pluto 23 Lib 28' 06" 8
Chiron 22 Tau 24' 13" R 3
Lilith 00 Sag 22' 55" 9
Node 29 Can 40' 60" R 6
P. of Fortune 14 Aqu 57' 46" 12
Vertex 15 Vir 08' 54" 7

House Longitude
Ascendant 23 Aqu 44' 39"
House 2 02 Ari 06' 20"
House 3 05 Tau 52' 37"
House 4 03 Gem 42' 55"
House 5 28 Gem 27' 53"
House 6 23 Can 44' 38"
House 7 23 Leo 44' 39"
House 8 02 Lib 06' 20"
House 9 05 Sco 52' 37"
MC (Midheaven) 03 Sag 42' 55"
House 11 28 Sag 27' 53"
House 12 23 Cap 44' 38"

http://freeblogin.com/

[Still thinking]

hi claire 19 .

i also think that it is not that easy.

I have seen Horoscopes with sun in 10th house.surely it gives fame and publicity.Still one Horoscope i saw with sun in 10th house which was not producing same result.

As per vedic Astrology you are Taurus rising with mercury in 1st house. sun in 2nd house is aspected by jupiter and moon.

Several wrong predictions in Astrology cannot be avoided until EXACT METHOD of predicting is found.

We all know that we have seen similar combination of planets which have produced completely opposite result.

[Still thinking]

In my view sun in 2nd and 8th give accidental recognition and fame.

Sun in 4th or 10th make people dominating,gives leadership qualities.These people are famous for their outstanding performance.

Sun in 12th or 6th house gives strong desire for fame and publicity.These people have Ego. These people work hard to gain popularity.Whatever they do only with a intention to get exposure.

[beginner]

do u mentioned these meaning using whole sign/placidus or equal?
because sun in 6th will be in 7th in whole sign.



In my view sun in 2nd and 8th give accidental recognition and fame.

Sun in 4th or 10th make people dominating,gives leadership qualities.These people are famous for their outstanding performance.

Sun in 12th or 6th house gives strong desire for fame and publicity.These people have Ego. These people work hard to gain popularity.Whatever they do only with a intention to get exposure.

[Still thinking]

I have mentioned using Whole sign.

[beginner]

Ok still thinking.


I have mentioned using Whole sign.

[jacque]

Hi,

I am very curious about my chart and if any fame is written for me. Please have a look and let me know.

Thank you in advance.

[jacque]

also how do I see the lot of fortune in my chart .. I'm quite new and quite clueless about this .. please let me know how to get a chart that shows your lot of fortune and then how I would proceed to read it.

Also if you could read my chart above and let me know if would be a great help in understanding it.

Thank you.

[Bernaboos]

I have Jupiter in the 10th house in libra. Is that is saying something??