Moon landing horary

[Radu]

I just received an email from a someone who read the last newsletter. I'm so excited, I didn't even get to set the chart for it, I wanted to post it here first.

Here it goes:

Did the Americans really land on the moon 20th July, 1969?
(or was it an elaborate photographic hoax)
Brisbane, Australia (lat.27.28S / long.153.2 E) 12th April 2006. 9.05am

Edit: here's the chart

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/more-horary/images/didamericansland.gif

Edit: and my take on this chart:
The interpretation is pretty straight forward: Americans are represented by the 9th house (as the question was asked by a foreigner, an Australian), therefore they are signified by the Saturn. Neptune's presence in this house is merely a reflection of the second part of the question, as phrased by the querent: "was it an elaborate photographic hoax" (Neptune rules photography, also illusions).

Their landing on the Moon, considered as a long distance voyage which reached its target, is shown in the 9th house counted from theirs, which is the chart's 5th house. The landing on the Moon is represented by Venus, ruler of Libra, the sign on the 5th house cusp.

We see Venus exalted and on the Midheaven, a very strong public position, offering huge prestige and visibility. Exaltation in astrology means that the planet receives more credit than it deserves. This is how this event was received by the public: it was a great success for America, a great advancement in space exploration.

Really???

Let's take a closer look, to see if the Americans really got there:

Saturn isn't in the turned 9th house (radical 5th) which would picture them arrived at their destination;
Venus isn't in the radical 9th (Americans) that would express approx. the same thing;
Saturn and Venus don't separate from a major aspect, which would be a marker of this past event; nor does the Moon, the co-significator, has any separating aspects;
Saturn and Venus are not in good reception with each other, other than the weakest of all, Venus received in Saturn's face;

What is in this chart, then?

Saturn and Venus separate from a minor aspect of inconjunction (quincunx), whose keyword is "adjustment"; Americans might have "adjusted" their Moon landing;
The Moon in this chart is obviously the natural significator of Earth's satellite, allegedly landed by the Americans in 1969; the Moon is not in the turned 9th (the voyage), but on the so-called "dark side" of the turned 9th house cusp (named this way by astrologer Lee Miller, in correlation with the 12th house); so, the Moon was not part of this voyage;
Saturn (the Americans) is quite weak (in its detriment, but in its own term and face) and is located in the charts' 3rd house, known as the "short voyages house"; also Saturn is at a critical nodal degree and its antiscia is on Algol; therefore, Saturn's condition didn't allow a such performance;
Venus is in applicating opposition with Lilith, a clear picture of an ongoing lie;
The Sun in this chart is in conjunction by antiscia with Lilith;

So, my take on this chart is that the so-called 1969 Moon landing was a hoax.

[EvilPixyScorp]

Great work Radu!
I always thought it was fake too.

Hey they 9H Antiscia is....

29-30 deg Scorpio
Children In Halloween Costumes Indulge In Various Pranks :mrgreen:

Maybe we can figure out where it was shot at from the chart??

[Draco]

Radu,

I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS SYNCHRONICITY!!!!!! :o :o :o :o

I have just asked this very same question this afternoon! How weird!!! :mrgreen:

I haven't even read Radu's interpretation yet because I am stunned to see this and just had to post about it. Just before coming on here I had been looking at websites concerning the possibility that the Moon landings were indeed fake, and I was inspired by the results of my horary.

The reason I came on here just now is because I wanted to discuss the chart.

My question was: Were the Moon landings faked?

Now, as I have said, I have not yet read Radu's interpretation of the chart above (which I will do after this), but first I will say what I feel that my own chart was saying.

It will be interesting to compare results and see if both charts seem to give the same answer.

The data for the horary is: 12/04/2006 St. Anne's, England @ 14:50

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4140/acharti3ffileg6dmjdu1117991293.gif (http://imageshack.us)

(Thos chart was originally HUGE so I changed it in 'edit')

When I came to look at the chart I wondered how I could interpret it. How would I determine whether the Moon landing was a fake or genuine.

I decided to consider the Frawley technique, which he uses to determine whether a thing is true or false, or in this case, genuine or fake.

He says in the 'Horary Textbook', on page 164:

To be true -

* the angles of the chart should be in fixed signs.
* Lord 1, Lord 3, the Moon and the Moon's despositor should be in fixed signs and angular houses, or at least fixed signs and succendent houses.

In this case, the angles are in mutable signs, Lord 1 and Lord 3 are in mutable signs, the Moon is in a cardinal sign and the Moon's despositer is mutable.

Also it says in Frawley's book:

Look at the condition of the third house: an affliction there could show falsehood.

In this chart, Jupiter is retrograde in the 3rd. It's retrogradation might be considered an affliction.

I have not yet looked further into the details of the chart, and I'm not even sure if Frawley's method is even reliable, it does seem rather simplistic, but according to this method of determining truth or deception, then it would seem to suggest that the Moon landing was indeed a fake.

Of course, there is much more information to be gleaned from the chart.

I cannot believe out of all the questions that could possibly be asked, this very same question which I asked just this afternoon and intended to post right here, should already have been posted by Radu. Obviously this was meant to be, either in that the two charts would reinforce each other's testimony, or be contradicting in order to stimulate further thought and debate.

I am so interested to see how Radu interpreted the former chart, and if this chart also suggested that the Moon landings were fake.

I'm off to read Radu's interpretation of the previous chart.

Draco :wink:

[Draco]

Hi Radu,

I have just read your interpretation of the horary, and it seems that this too suggests that the Moon landings were a hoax.

I must admit that I am somewhat suprised. I never actually thought that the Moon landing was a fake, I thought it was just another of these ludicrous conspiracy theories. After using the Frawley method to determine that the chart showed that the landings were faked, I decided to look at some sites about the theory of a fake Moon landing, and there are many sensible observations put forward to suggest that the Moon landing was indeed a con. If I didn't believe that the Moon landing was a fake before, I do now.

Personally, I do hope that the horaries are indeed correct. I have always been uncomfortable with the notion that the pure, holy Moon has been trampled all over by scientists. To me, the Moon is sacred, to walk all over it is a great sacrelige to me. We have already defiled the sanctity of the Earth to the most grotesque extremes, without moving on to ruin the Moon as well. To me, the Moon is an aspect of Deity, it is a face of God, I am so glad that it seems that the Moon landing never really happened.

It is interesting that in the chart that Radu interpreted also holds up to the Frawley method of determining whether or not the 'rumour is true'.

Again, the angles are in mutable signs, and neither Lord 1, Lord 3, the Moon or it's despositer are in fixed signs.

I was interested in the method that Radu used to draw his conclusions on the previous chart, so I wanted to use the same delineation in going through my own chart to see what this might come up with.

I wondered if my chart would give the same conclusion, albeit in a different way.

(Sorry about the enormous chart taking up the screen by the way :( )

My question was not phrased in exactly the same way as the former, but none the less I am inquiring about precisely the same thing, whether we have all been duped by the American government or not.

I look to the 9th cusp, representing to the Americans, as again, they are foreigners to me, as I am English. This gives, in my chart, America as Venus in Pisces in the 6th. Venus is exalted in Pisces, so it is put upon a pedestal, it is adored and celebrated in this environment and this may refer to the way in which America was viewed by the world, having accomplished the feat of taking humanity to the Moon. However, Venus is in the 6th house of sickness and malady.

The 9th from the 9th gives us the 5th, ruled by Saturn, and Saturn is in exile in Leo in the 11th. It is interesting that the significator of the voyage to the Moon is in it's exile, because the very nature of the journey was to place man in an alien environment. This confuses me however, because this might suggest that the voyage did indeed take the astronauts to an alien environment. So I don't know what to make of this.

Radu, what would your take be on this chart?

Draco :wink:

[EvilPixyScorp]

Hmm...Saturn is in Leo though...Alien enviroment, but still in it's own terms/face..comfortable there..Leo is the dramatic, Hollywood sign..in a studio?

[Draco]

Hi Pixy,

Hmm...Saturn is in Leo though...Alien enviroment, but still in it's own terms/face..comfortable there..Leo is the dramatic, Hollywood sign..in a studio?

I'm not sure, perhaps. I suppose that Saturn is in the sign opposite it's domicile, therefore it isn't where it is supposed to be: meant to be on the Moon but actually somewhere else?

Leo is drama, but I'm not sure about the 11th house placement.

Draco :wink:

[Radu]

Hi Draco

Amazing coincidence!

I think it means that the Heaven wants us to really believe this, as you said.

Moving to your chart - I agree with your interpretation, but I have to mention that Frawley says in his book "these questions are rare; keep them rare" and "I have not judged more than a handful of questions as 'Is it true?'".

Your question "Were the Moon landings faked?" could indeed be rephrased as "Is true what they say that Americans landed on the Moon in July 1969?".

The second way to delineate this chart is by the traditional way.

The difference from the previous question is mainly in its phrasing. The other question was: "Did the Americans really land on the Moon on 20th July, 1969? " so I used the 9th house for the Americans and the turned 9th house for their alleged Moon landing.

But your question was more direct: "Were the Moon landings faked?", so the Americans are not playing the main role. It sounds more like "Was this event staged?".
The event is a long distance voyage a 9th house matter so I take the Moon landing to be represented in the 9th house and be therefore represented by the same planet, Venus, not surprisingly for a question asked on the same subject, with the same purpose, on the same day.

So, Venus in opposition with Lilith (not displayed in your chart) gives the answer.

Venus is exalted in the 6th house of the chart, which is the turned 10th house from the house representing the Moon landing, indicating the glory of this alleged event.

It's interesting that this turned 10th house cusp is conjunct with the Moon from the US Sibly chart while the horary chart Ascendant is conjunct with US Lilith. But I'm not sure if this significative synastric connection is to be used as an argument for the horary chart interpretation or it is merely a factor that confirms the "radicality" of the horary chart.

[Draco]

Hi Radu,

Moving to your chart - I agree with your interpretation, but I have to mention that Frawley says in his book "these questions are rare; keep them rare" and "I have not judged more than a handful of questions as 'Is it true?'".

Yes, I am aware of this. However, I did not look to using this method until after I had asked the question and was thinking of how I could interpret the chart. I was confused as to what house to look to. I was wondering 'what house should I look to for a conspiracy?'. As I was so indecisive I thought that the Frawley method of trying to determine the truth of a situation would be my best bet.

The difference from the previous question is mainly in its phrasing. The other question was: "Did the Americans really land on the Moon on 20th July, 1969? " so I used the 9th house for the Americans and the turned 9th house for their alleged Moon landing.

But your question was more direct: "Were the Moon landings faked?", so the Americans are not playing the main role. It sounds more like "Was this event staged?".
The event is a long distance voyage a 9th house matter so I take the Moon landing to be represented in the 9th house and be therefore represented by the same planet, Venus, not surprisingly for a question asked on the same subject, with the same purpose, on the same day.

Yes, I totally understand this. Although the answers we both sought were essentially the same, the phrasing of our questions are an impotant consideration for exploring the houses.

The difference is, the previous question concerned a nation's voyage (9th from 9th), whereas mine just concerned the voyage itself, taking us directly to the 9th, and yes, it is then very interesting how in both charts we both have Venus showing the apparent voyage to the Moon.

I had not thought to look at Lilith, but of course she would be important in a question about the Moon.

In my chart, Lilith would be in the 12th, the place of that which is hidden and secreted, and is in the 4th from the 9th, therefore the true nature of the 'voyage' is kept buried, covered up.

Very interesting stuff. Given the coincidence, this is obviously something I ought to find out about at this time.

It is rather worrying though. In what other ways have we been deceived?

Draco :wink:

[Radu]

It is rather worrying though. In what other ways have we been deceived?

Maybe, in many ways. This is why people should ask horary questions... I read a lot during a while and I feel I cannot ask genuine horary questions on matters I already thought about.

[Summery Joy]

Hello everyone,

I've just read this thread, and I'm not very surprised that it turned out to be a lie. However, I have a couple of questions that we may turn into horaries. That is; if anyone will interpret them (I don't do my own horaries).

Why did the Americans need to deceive the world like this? Did they have a plan that failed and they didn't want to admit it? Did they simply want to beat the Russians to it?

The other question is; did the Americans ever land on the Moon after that? And by that I'm asking if they have sent humans, not machines.

Both questions asked
14 April 2006
00:34 am (GMT+2)
Cairo, Egypt 30n03,31e115

[Three-leg-cat]

Non-astrologically, I have heard the landing hoax accustaions, from a TV programme......anyway here is a link I may share from the Wikipedia:
Apollo moon landing hoax accusations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_moon_landing_hoax_accusations)

[Radu]

Why did the Americans need to deceive the world like this? Did they have a plan that failed and they didn't want to admit it? Did they simply want to beat the Russians to it?
This is a quite complex question, I'm not going to hazard myself to try to answer it, as I don't know enought details on this.
I think horary works best if the question is simple and allows a yes/no answer, with some room for discussion. But in questions phrased that start with "Why" or "How" it is much more difficult to give the right answer.

I would be interested in seeing "Why" & "How" horary charts to which one can find the right answer, in order to understand how to to deal with them. I don't remember now seeing anywhere such examples, but this doesn't mean they don't exist. Could anyone help?

[Laura Elizabeth]

FWIW, I believe the landing on the Moon happened. Can't explain why two horary charts say otherwise. But that's not the question I'm answering...

Why did the Americans need to deceive the world like this? Did they have a plan that failed and they didn't want to admit it? Did they simply want to beat the Russians to it?

President Kennedy challenged the United States to put a man on the Moon before the end of the decade in his first Inagural speech. This galvanized the scientific community into doing just that. If it's true, the Moon landings were a hoax, it was to fulfill the request of a dead King.

[Radu]

I understand this and believe me that I would love to know that scientists and politicians are doing everything in the best interest of the people, but I'm becoming more and more skeptical as I found out how this world works.

And it is not only the two horary questions. Read this article (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrology-articles/first-man-moon.php) written last year and you'll see that there're major indications in all charts (US, event, people involved) that this was a hoax. There's a Lilith signature all over the place.

[Summery Joy]

Radu,

I think I read somewhere (probably in the Martial Art of Horary Astrology) that the 4th house rules "how" and the 10th house rules "why". However, I never figured out how to apply this piece of information.

[Laura Elizabeth]

I understand this and believe me that I would love to know that scientists and politicians are doing everything in the best interest of the people, but I'm becoming more and more skeptical as I found out how this world works.

And it is not only the two horary questions. Read this article (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrology-articles/first-man-moon.php) written last year and you'll see that there're major indications in all charts (US, event, people involved) that this was a hoax. There's a Lilith signature all over the place.

Thanks for the link Radu. It's really sad.