Rhianna

[Shining Ray]

http://thebosh.com/upload/2007/10/02/Rihanna.jpg

How serious did she get beat up by her partner, my other half read she needed an operation on her face. Not sure of all the story, or whether it's being exaggerated, has anyone looked at her chart with transits.
Story here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/feb/20/rihanna-alleged-assault-photo-leaked). What happened?

[Shining Ray]

Here is her natal chart I found online:

http://sasstrology.com/images/charts/rihanna.gif

[FleetingDasein]

I haven't looked at her chart or her transits but I was horrified when I saw the picture online. The picture was leaked by TMZ and can be found on their site: http://www.tmz.com/2009/02/20/rihanna-photo-face-beating/ It is not photoshopped. The LAPD released a statement today asking for people to come through because a leak such as this should not have happened. Chris Brown is done for, really.

I was looking at their composite and Mars squares Uranus, Saturn and Neptune in the 6th. Those are some pretty bad aspects to have, in my opinion. Not to mention the same 3 planets, are square the Sun and Mercury in the 10th.

Moon does recieve a trine from Saturn and also conjuncts Venus in the 11th. I think they did love each other, but they couldn't work out the power struggles from the squares.

Composite found below,
http://www.astrodispatch.com/2009/02/10/rihanna-chris-brownwill-they-last/

http://www.astrodispatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/28/390e5_composite-rihanna-chris-brown.gif

[RayAustin]

I love looking at composites.

A lot of squares tends to make a relationship very exciting and intense for the love affair, but frequently they are unstable and tend to violence and all those other bad things (I know this all too well) -- Sun Square Uranus, and or Saturn are definitely red flags.

The best relationship charts have a lot of trines and harmonious aspects, and only a few squares.

[milkywaygirl]

i looked at their synastry and i think that it was very telling. chris brown has mars uranus opposition with mars opposed to rihannas mars uranus conjunction. this is the violence. with an aspect like this, i highly doubt this is the first time he has put a hand on her.

browns sun and moon both oppose rihannas pluto and square her mercury (her sun squares his mercury as well) passion rage depth jealousy fighting fighting fighting. her moon is in tight quincunx with his pluto, double whammy. as well her sun sits directly on his nn.

his saturn is very tightly square both her sun and venus while his mars opposes her saturn. he wants to control her, her pleasure, while she wants to control his sexuality, action force and libido, but its just not productive or harmonious at all.

her saturn forms a tight sesquiquadrate with his sun, yet another big indication of the urger for her to control him.

this looks to be a very powerful and lifechanging relationship, especially for brown, fraught with severe control and power issues. i see it as more of a psychological relationship as opposed to a passionate one, as their venuses and mars's are not compatible, browns being in earth/water and rihannas in fire.

it would be nice to know their birthtimes to get additional info, but i'm just going off solar charts at the moment. the feeling i get from this though is that chris felt the overwhelming need to posses and control her, yet she wanted to do the same to him, and so the battle between them began. i feel in a way, with her mars/uranus conj (and moon conj venus in aries), that she might have been the provoker in a way of this tirade, as his mars/uranus opp indicates that adversaries come from outside. she may be naturally aggressive and pick fights with the mars/uranus conj, but with sun in pisces, she always appears as the "victim".

after looking at their synastry i wouldnt be surprised at all if she provoked him and basically drove him to beat her the way he did. with her sun at such an early degree in pisces, i would imagine that she identifies more with the "victim" archetype of pisces rather than the "martyr" or the "spiritualist". as well, this occurred right before the grammys where there were both scheduled to perform. the girl is young, has been thrust into the limelight and has admitted in interviews to feeling very lonely and isolated in her role as a pop star. i wouldnt be surprised if she brought this whole mess on herself as a way to escape from the limelight for a while and return to her family in barbados. pisceans quite often are "yes" people and dont want to let others down, perhaps this is the only way she knew how to get out of the pressures of her life.


EDIT: just looked at her transits and progressions, and pluto has been transiting the mars/uranus conj/opp of them both for a few months now (big violent blowout). since the 9th (grammys), neptune has been perfecting a conjunction with her progressed mercury (clouded thinking) and mars has been coming closer to transiting her natal mercury, which i see as the trigger for the pluto transit (picking a fight, arguement). in addition, transiting uranus is sitting right on top of her progressed sun in pisces. seems like a big change was needed in her life (uranus conj prog sun), and this is how she got it to manifest in her life. after looking at transits, i would suspect that rihanna will be taking a break from music for a while.

[Leon]

[deleted non-astrological comment - Moderator]

[FleetingDasein]

[deleted non-astrological comment - Moderator]

[Leon]

[deleted non-astrological comment - Moderator]

[FleetingDasein]

[deleted non-astrological comment - Moderator]

[Leon]

[deleted non-astrological comment - Moderator]

[RayAustin]

I have to admit, I really don't like either one of them or their music, but its unfortunate nevertheless. I only hope that Chris Brown, if guilty, is held accountable. :)

[Shining Ray]

The picture is shocking, I'm surprised they got hold of it. Domestic violence cases are supposed to be kept confidential. The composite does look stressed. I didn't have time to look at her transits last night but as has been pointed out Transiting Pluto has been moving over Mars/Uranus/Saturn for a while now, this was probably not the first sign of trouble, the boundaries have been crossed before. Pluto/Mars can be time when you are confronted with some raw, powerful emotions, it can be describe violence, power & control battles between both of them.

Rhianna can be self-willed with her Mars-Uranus and Mars-Saturn involved she can become involved with males with an anger problem. Maybe trouble has been brewing for a long time and it all finally exploded.

Uranus is nearing her Virgo/Pisces Nodes and will square Mars in Saggittarius opposed Chiron in Gemini. I wonder what events will be happening then. Uranus usually stirs events up and awakens us to a new perspective, old wounds may resurface. Is Chris Brown on drugs do you think maybe he was drug fuelled during the attack, I read her father struggled with a crack addiction.

"I knew that my mom and dad would argue when there was foil paper with an ashtray. He would just go into the bathroom all the time. I didn't know what it was. But he knew that to get closer to his kids he had to cut that out. And he did.
"My mom raised me to be a child and know my place but also to think like a woman. She never held back from me in terms of being too young to know certain things, so I am very mature for my age. In this business you have to work with the things that get thrown your way - ” the good, the bad and the ugly. "My family keeps my feet on the ground so I don't get too ahead of myself."

[FleetingDasein]

[deleted non-astrological comment - Moderator]

[AquariusT]

after looking at their synastry i wouldnt be surprised at all if she provoked him and basically drove him to beat her the way he did.


:eek: :eek: :eek: I am sure this will be deleted to, but this is the most shocking thing I have read here.


[Moderator-edit: No, I will not delete this post, except for an unnecessary word, but will leave this message behind:
People, please get back to the Astrology of Rihanna and Chris!]

[milkywaygirl]

[deleted non-astrological comment - Moderator]

[milkywaygirl]

Tim, why are you leaving the post above but deleting my explanation regarding my statement? If someone feels to post that my statements are shocking and you think that is astrologically related and leave it up, then I should have the opportunity to explain why I feel they are not, and how it is all based on the astrology and not my personal feelings on the issue. Your moderating doesnt make much sense from where I am sitting. I thought the point of moderating was to prevent the derailment of threads - in this case i think that you are doing the derailment. aquariusT's and my posts to one another could have led to some intresting discussion, but you have eliminated that possibility.

[Agreed. I have not deleted this post - Moderator]

[cassanra]

I am not quite sure I get all the deleted posts but if they sensed the same thing I did than I can imagine what they said. Interestingly enough I had this discussion with my 13 and 16 year old today in the car. I am not sure that the level of violence perpetrated against this young lady can be justifiable in terms of provocation.
What holds one person back from violence with similar signs and conjunctions etc and another makes a choice to not give into that drive?
Psychologically it is always the question of choices in how we react the stimuli as they present themselves.

[archergirl]

after looking at their synastry i wouldnt be surprised at all if she provoked him and basically drove him to beat her the way he did.

I have to agree with the protests about this comment; regardless of the intention (I understand what you are saying in terms of bad aspects), it still comes across as being unaware of the issues surrounding domestic violence.:( .

Regardless of synastry and astrology, being 'provoked' is absolutely no justification for beating someone up. I work in Social Services, and was, funnily enough, talking to the domestic violence team just this afternoon. 'Why doesn't she just leave him?' is a common question we ask about women in these situations, and puts the onus and responsibility straight onto the one who has been beaten up, instead of us asking 'Why doesn't he stop beating on her?'. No excuse. None.

I have very challenging synastry with Mr. Archergirl in our composite chart (a Pluto/Venus/Uranus conjunction in opposition to a Sun/Mercury conjunction, with the Sun/Mercury conjunction squared Mars) AND in our natal charts (almost all oppositions or conjunctions!). He has never laid a hand on me; never, no matter how much I 'provoke' him, and provoke him I do.

Brown's unfortunate incident shows a distinct lack of self-control and maturity, no doubt coupled with the fact that success leads people to big heads and surrounding oneself with sycophants who have no boundaries. Plenty of people have difficult charts; Mr. Archergirl's is similar, in fact, to Mr. Brown's in terms of oppositions and squares; but Mr. Archergirl is no thug. He has found other ways to channel his 'anger issues'. On this, I agree 100% with Cassanra.

AG:)

[milkywaygirl]

I have to agree with the protests about this comment; regardless of the intention, it comes across as being unaware of the issues surrounding domestic violence.:( .


well we're talking about the astrology here and not whether it was right or wrong for chris brown to beat down rihanna, as that would be a short and boring conversation. sure i'm aware of the issues around domestic violence. i'm just talking about what i see astrologically. people put themselves into situations all the time that are negative for them, situations in which they get hurt or end up suffering. they usually do it unconsciously, but they still do it.

for example, if i continually date men who beat me, does that mean that i deserve to be beaten? of course not. but the way our psyches work is that if i have an issue around getting beaten up by my lover that is unresolved in me, the universe will continue to put me in that situation until i resolve it. does that make the men any less guilty of beating me? of course not, they are still as guilty. but the underlying issue here is that i have an unresolved issue with this pattern of suffering, and i am unconsciously putting myself into situations where i will get beaten. these are exactly the types of things that astrology is best used to help us come to grips with. i am surprised that anyone would think that my statements are shocking, as i feel that i have given a valid extrapolation of the real dynamics of this situation, yet i feel that perhaps people think i'm insensitive for doing so. all i can say to that, is look at the transits and the astrology because its all right there.

someone with the transits she has going on (I wont repeat what I wrote in my previous post re:this), in addition to pluto transiting her saturn/mars/uranus, just might egg on her lover to beat her up so that she could elicit change in her life (uranus conj prog sun). i dont see whats so shocking or wrong about me saying that. in truth, it really isnt that farfetched of an idea at all to imagine that some women indeed bring violence upon themselves.




Regardless of synastry and astrology, being 'provoked' is absolutely no justification for beating someone up.


i never said it was.


Brown's unfortunate incident shows a distinct lack of self-control and maturity, no doubt coupled with the fact that success leads people to big heads and surrounding oneself with sycophants who have no boundaries. Plenty of people have difficult charts; Mr. Archergirl's is similar, in fact, to Mr. Brown's in terms of oppositions and squares; but Mr. Archergirl is no thug. He has found other ways to channel his 'anger issues'. On this, I agree 100% with Cassanra.

AG:)

sure i totally agree with you. on a mundane level, i think it was completely wrong for him to beat her up and i hope that he gets whatever punishment is coming to him. on an astrological and universal level however, i think she has a much bigger responsibility over this incident than him.

[RockFish]

in truth, it really isnt that farfetched of an idea at all to imagine that some women indeed bring violence upon themselves.
Not only women, men do it too. From a psychological point of view, there may be an element of self-sabotaging in some of these situations.

Repeating: in *some* of these situations.

This may be a subconscious drive. This doesn't mean it justifies the aggression, I'm not placing judgements of right and wrong here, I'm just stating something that indeed happens.

I don't know if this is the case with Rhianna, tho, since her Sun is well aspected by Mars, Uranus and Saturn. To find self-sabotaging in a chart I would expect a hard-aspected Sun, which is not the case.

Pluto is transiting her stellium in late Sagit-early Cap. I'm not sure if it can be accountable for such an event.... I'm looking for transits that might point to this event, but the only thing that I see which might imply some kind of wounding is the T-Square that her Chiron is presently forming with T Saturn and T Uranus.

The lack of accurate birth time is really a shame, since knowing her ascendant would be very helpful..... A tough transit to ascendant could explain this unfortunate event in her life.

[milkywaygirl]

in rihannas case i dont think we can look at it as a kind of wounding or self sabotage. i think if anything it was a step in a process, and not an end result, if that makes sense. i think the end result and goal was to get out of the limelight, and this incident just helped her along towards that goal.

[gaer]

someone with the transits she has going on (I wont repeat what I wrote in my previous post re:this), in addition to pluto transiting her saturn/mars/uranus, just might egg on her lover to beat her up so that she could elicit change in her life (uranus conj prog sun).

I don't see why her transits would cause Brown to do what he did. In other words, I can see that her transits might indicate the possibility of violence. In fact, they should, if the reading of natal charts and aspects work.

Where I feel uncomfortable is that you seem to imply that she is more responsible for what happened than he is. We should at least be spending as much time figuring out A) why he is violent man and B) how his transits set off such a horrible physical attack.

I feel that we get into dangerous ground if we either justify Brown's actions morally *or astrologically* just because of the lady's chart and aspects.

[Awakened_Pisces]

I can't read composite charts, I can never truly tell who's who. But I can read the aspects and give my personal feelings on the chart.

Firstly, beyond that Grand Square there's an Pluto-Jupiter situated rather nicely in the 5th/11th axis. To me this is saying that Rihanna and Brown were probably once friends and it did not intend to be a relationship/it would be temporary. It also shows Pluto(Power)-trying to expand(Jupiter) against the other.

With such an opposition, It wouldn't surprise me too badly to know that there were problems in the household before.

Then we have Venus in her Joy in Taurus along with Moon, trining Saturn and sextiling Uranus. To me, this shows the relationship the two had in the work area(11/6th) and how that developed the romantic side of the two. The fact that there's NOTHING in the 7th house clarifies this: This was a purely work/friend related relationship in which one or both probably thought at one point of obtaining power.

BTW, That Grand Square is fixed more towards Mercury then to the Sun. Which IMO is more fitting. We see Mars(Sex/Action/violence)-Saturn(The greater maleific often involved in life shaping experiences) in his traditional home of Capricorn-Mercury.

As I see a Sun-Mercury conjunction in the 10th house and that Mars/Saturn are involved this concludes a power struggle between these two. Possibly each having what the other wants. While Brown's actions are severely immoral. It's also on Rihanna.

Takes 2 to argue.

[milkywaygirl]

I don't see why her transits would cause Brown to do what he did. In other words, I can see that her transits might indicate the possibility of violence. In fact, they should, if the reading of natal charts and aspects work.

Where I feel uncomfortable is that you seem to imply that she is more responsible for what happened than he is. We should at least be spending as much time figuring out A) why he is violent man and B) how his transits set off such a horrible physical attack.

I feel that we get into dangerous ground if we either justify Brown's actions morally *or astrologically* just because of the lady's chart and aspects.


i am not justifying or condoning anyones actions. i thought i made that clear?

[Awakened_Pisces]

Milkyway made what I believe is a proper read as well.

There is interaction between the 6th house of public work and the 11th house of friendship, and the 4th house of home, the 6th house again and the 10th house of career.

All this leads up to, is a most likely temporary relationship that for one or the other was meant for a benefit. Most likely in Brown's case, it probably is the same thing as other men: sexual pleasure.

For Rihanna, it may be the fact that men make more in the business then woman(Venus trining Saturn in his joy in Capricorn).

It was a power play on both parts and bound to end like that.

[gaer]

i am not justifying or condoning anyones actions. i thought i made that clear?
I'm sorry. I don't agree with you at all.

This is what I am disputing:

after looking at their synastry i wouldnt be surprised at all if she provoked him and basically drove him to beat her the way he did.

I believe this is also at least one of the comments that shocked other people.

I don't see how astrology can be used to show that a woman "drives" a man to beat her in the way that he did. I don't understand how you don't see that point.

It's a fact (I think) that she was beaten. Certainly people instigate all sorts of things. We might use astrology to show how she (in general) draws violent, controlling and abusive people in into her life. I agree that there are both men and women who do this, and of course the reasons are extraordinarily complicated.

But when a woman is used by a man as a punching bag, I think you have to expect most people to feel very uncomfortable with the idea that she "provoked him and drove him" to do this.

i wouldnt be surprised if she brought this whole mess on herself as a way to escape from the limelight for a while and return to her family in barbados. pisceans quite often are "yes" people and dont want to let others down, perhaps this is the only way she knew how to get out of the pressures of her life.

Look at your words here. You are implying that she brought this whole mess on herself. Then you make a very vague comment about "Pisceans". But the only planet she has in Pisces is the Sun. I think that's a rather huge leap to make.

If she and Brown had had a nasty public argument, if they had sworn at each other and thrown things (not dangerous), made a huge public scened, or if they had such a loud argument that someone had had to be called to to stop them from disturbing other people, then I'd agree, yes, perhaps both were equally at fault. Or perhaps she really did push the buttons.

It's the fact that the horrible physical violence is involved that makes me feel very reluctant—again astrologically—to put the primary blame on her for getting beaten.

So I think many of us have both moral *and* astrological problems with placing the major blame for what happened on her. And you have most certainly done that.

[Awakened_Pisces]

No one is putting the primary blame on her, In my calculations I feel as though she had an ulterior power play motive that led her into this relationship. The absoluete absence of any prescense in the 7th house of relationships clarified that for me.

[RockFish]

To help with the visuals, here's the chart of Rhianna's natal planets (inner wheel, ascendant in 00 degrees aries for lack of accurate birthtime), and the event.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/imagehosting/557249a340fd2d1d3.jpg

[RockFish]

We haven't got any information about possible attacks from him against her prior to this event, so I think it's a bit harsh to imply he beat her before, and derive from that non-information a tendency on her part to be abused.

Maybe it was the first time it ever happened, and she wouldn't have any way to know that he would turn out violent like that.

Lots of conjectures here, let's stick to what we've got.

[Awakened_Pisces]

Sure, we don't know but the astrology is proposing the possibility.

[milkywaygirl]

I'm sorry. I don't agree with you at all.

This is what I am disputing:

I believe this is also at least one of the comments that shocked other people.

I don't see how astrology can be used to show that a woman "drives" a man to beat her in the way that he did. I don't understand how you don't see that point.

and i dont understand how you dont see that astrology can be used to show that. to reiterate: pluto was transiting her mars/uranus/saturn conjunction. his mars sits opposed to his uranus, and to her mars/uranus/sat. mars opposed uranus in natal is indicative of finding adversaries, arguement, erraticism (or even revolution and a new way of seeing thigns to put a positive spin on it) coming from the other - hence the opposition. with mars/uranus/saturn sitting on the other side of browns mars, rihanna takes on this role for him, she is the adversary bringing the erraticism into his life, which he responds to with his mars. when pluto transited this whole configuration, it triggered plutonian themes of power, depth, overpowering willfullness - combined with both their mars's and both their uranus'es, this can easily lead to Violence. i feel my delineation of this situation is valid - this can be interpreted as her being the provoker of rage in him.


It's a fact (I think) that she was beaten. Certainly people instigate all sorts of things. We might use astrology to show how she (in general) draws violent, controlling and abusive people in into her life. I agree that there are both men and women who do this, and of course the reasons are extraordinarily complicated.

But when a woman is used by a man as a punching bag, I think you have to expect most people to feel very uncomfortable with the idea that she "provoked him and drove him" to do this.


sure they might feel uncomfortable, but that is them bringing their own personal feelings into it. all i did was delineate the synastry, transits and progressions in her chart that i saw and came up with a picture and idea of why this occurred. this is my interpretation, totally free of my personal feelings about domestic violence. as astrologers, i think we should all strive to keep personal feelings out of analysis at all times.


Look at your words here. You are implying that she brought this whole mess on herself. Then you make a very vague comment about "Pisceans". But the only planet she has in Pisces is the Sun. I think that's a rather huge leap to make.

not at all; that is holistic delineation. i took into account the larger factors in her chart (ie her pisces sun at a very early degree) and factored that into my delineation. we can all go read about how planets at an early degree of a sign function and come to the conclusion that a planet at 0 pisces is unfamiliar with piscean energy, and may veer towards the lower maniefestations of that kind of energy - in this case, the "victim" archetype of pisces. as well, tr uranus is conjuncting her natal sun, putting emphasis on the sun at this particular moment. to not include delineation of the sun and its nature would not be a full analysis.


If she and Brown had had a nasty public argument, if they had sworn at each other and thrown things (not dangerous), made a huge public scened, or if they had such a loud argument that someone had had to be called to to stop them from disturbing other people, then I'd agree, yes, perhaps both were equally at fault. Or perhaps she really did push the buttons.

well neither of us were there. i dont even really understand what the significance of what you are saying is, to be honest.


It's the fact that the horrible physical violence is involved that makes me feel very reluctant—again astrologically—to put the primary blame on her for getting beaten.

So I think many of us have both moral *and* astrological problems with placing the major blame for what happened on her. And you have most certainly done that.

astrology isnt about morals. morals are a human construct. astrology is a universal language. if you want to talk about astrology, keep morals and personal biases out of it. you will gain much more from it when you realize that.


i welcome anyone who would like to provide a full delination of the situation at hand, including transits and progressions, that differs from mine. i would love to hear someone elses intepretation of this situation, instead of people getting up in arms about my own, yet not providing any astrological evidence to back up their statements. people seem to be getting all upset because a woman got beaten by a man. if this was chris brown beating down one of his male peers, would you all have the same reaction to my delineation? i dont think so.

[RockFish]

Might be, Confused, I didn't check everything you guys checked, so I think I will just follow my own advice and stick to what I got. :rolleyes:

At first glance I didn't see how the present transits were afffecting her chart, but in the bi-wheel I posted above, I see a T-square formed by transiting Uranus and Saturn to her natal Mars. If we include Chiron, and I would certainly do so, it is a Grand Cross involving T Uranus opposed T Saturn, which is a very tense transit, hitting her natal Mars and Chiron....

Natal Mars is conjunct natal Saturn and Uranus, and it's very telling that a transit of these planets to her Mars brought such an event to her life. Pluto is conjunct the entire stellium too.

The event took place when Saturn and Uranus perfected their current opposition.

She's got natal Jupiter trine natal Mars, which is a lucky position. Her Sun is also in good aspect with her Stellium and T Pluto, so, altho the transit is very heavy, her life wasn't in danger.

[waybread]

on an astrological and universal level however, i think she has a much bigger responsibility over this incident than him.

milkywaygirl, when you make statements like this, you have to realize how readers are likely to take them, as gaer and others have indicated. Maybe there is a better word here than "responsibility."

I think we can all agree that physical assault is illegal, and that nobody's astrological placements, regardless of their sign and degree, justify it.

[Awakened_Pisces]

Well of course it doesn't justify it, no one said that. It just looks like an experience the cosmos had prepared for those two individuals.

[gaer]

Let me start here:

I don't see how astrology can be used to show that a woman "drives" a man to beat her in the way that he did. I don't understand how you don't see that point.

With the answer

and i dont understand how you dont see that astrology can be used to show that. to reiterate: pluto was transiting her mars/uranus/saturn conjunction. his mars sits opposed to his uranus, and to her mars/uranus/sat. mars opposed uranus in natal is indicative of finding adversaries, arguement, erraticism (or even revolution and a new way of seeing thigns to put a positive spin on it) coming from the other - hence the opposition. with mars/uranus/saturn sitting on the other side of browns mars, rihanna takes on this role for him, she is the adversary bringing the erraticism into his life, which he responds to with his mars. when pluto transited this whole configuration, it triggered plutonian themes of power, depth, overpowering willfullness - combined with both their mars's and both their uranus'es, this can easily lead to Violence. i feel my delineation of this situation is valid - this can be interpreted as her being the provoker of rage in him.

Let me respond point by point, with (hopefully) nothing but astrology. First, Pluto transits are incredibly long-lasting. Pluto was first in very early Cap around the beginning of 2008 and I think closer than it is now to directly conjunct her natal planets in 2007, though out of sign. In September 2008 Pluto will be back to around 0Cap39. I would say that Pluto is a major player in her chart, by transit, but I would not want to use Pluto for timing, since whatever is happening with Pluto is something that is in a cycle lasting a few years (re the conjunction by transit).

I would say that her transits at the time this incident occurred seem very difficult, although we are working blindly without a time of birth, since we can't even see exactly what is happening to the Moon. It would have been a rotten time for her, in general, to get into power struggles.

But for me there is something much more basic: before analysing what is going on between two people, I want to have a really accurate chart of each, to view separately. With Chris Brown, again we have no birthtime—or do we? But there is at least a possibility for a Sun/Moon conjunction, with Pluto opposite both. The reason is that the conjunction is almost dead-on at noon. So unless he was born very close to either midnight, that difficult aspect pattern is there.

Then Mars opposite Uranus. Uranus inconjunct Mercury. Venus inconjunct Jupiter. With that information, I would suspect that he might be quite capable of violence, in general, and it might hardly take much at all to set it off. At least the possibility is there. Naturally we are still guessing, with no houses, no exact placement of the Moon. Since I don't know either of these people, the most I would say is that both appear to have difficult charts—and in hers I see more counter-balancing ease, to be honest.

Going by a composite chart, I think it's quite likely that both would be much better off if they stayed away from each other.

But: if you are willing to go so far as to say that she provoked his rage, I think it's equally likely that it doesn't take much to provoke it.

not at all; that is holistic delineation. i took into account the larger factors in her chart (ie her pisces sun at a very early degree) and factored that into my delineation. we can all go read about how planets at an early degree of a sign function and come to the conclusion that a planet at 0 pisces is unfamiliar with piscean energy, and may veer towards the lower maniefestations of that kind of energy - in this case, the "victim" archetype of pisces. as well, tr uranus is conjuncting her natal sun, putting emphasis on the sun at this particular moment. to not include delineation of the sun and its nature would not be a full analysis.

I must be looking at something different. A different chart. The wrong chart? I don't see any conjunction between natal Sun and tr Uranus. Furthermore, looking at her natal chart, I am far more uneasy than I am as I look at his. Again, missing birthtimes makes it very difficult. I just don't see enough in her chart to label her as a "victim archetype". You are seeing something I don't see. So we have an honest disagreement.

if this was chris brown beating down one of his male peers, would you all have the same reaction to my delineation? i dont think so.

It would depend on the size of the person. If he obviously beat the heck out of another guy, and that guy was much too small and weak to have a chance to fight back, I think I'd feel the same way. For me the issue is not male/female but someone stronger and more powerful at least potentially doing serious physical damage to someone else.

[gaer]

At first glance I didn't see how the present transits were afffecting her chart, but in the bi-wheel I posted above, I see a T-square formed by transiting Uranus and Saturn to her natal Mars. If we include Chiron, and I would certainly do so, it is a Grand Cross involving T Uranus opposed T Saturn, which is a very tense transit, hitting her natal Mars and Chiron....

For natal placements she has Saturn/Uranus 0Cap32 and 0Cap13, respectively. Mars at 28Sag49.

Transiting Saturn was around 20 and 1/2 Virgo, and transiting Uranus was close to 21 Pis.

You would have to use very large orbs to connect the Saturn/Uranus opposition to her natal Mars. :)

[milkywaygirl]

Let me start here:

With the answer

Let me respond point by point, with (hopefully) nothing but astrology. First, Pluto transits are incredibly long-lasting. Pluto was first in very early Cap around the beginning of 2008 and I think closer than it is now to directly conjunct her natal planets in 2007, though out of sign. In September 2008 Pluto will be back to around 0Cap39. I would say that Pluto is a major player in her chart, by transit, but I would not want to use Pluto for timing, since whatever is happening with Pluto is something that is in a cycle lasting a few years (re the conjunction by transit).

sure i agree. thats why i referenced tr neptune transiting progressed mercury, and tr mars approaching conjunction with natal mercury as possible triggers for the pluto conjunction. confused and blurry thinking (neptune/mercury) combined with a transitory urge for argumentary nature (mars/mercury) leads to trigger for pluto transit.


Then Mars opposite Uranus. Uranus inconjunct Mercury. Venus inconjunct Jupiter. With that information, I would suspect that he might be quite capable of violence, in general, and it might hardly take much at all to set it off. At least the possibility is there. Naturally we are still guessing, with no houses, no exact placement of the Moon. Since I don't know either of these people, the most I would say is that both appear to have difficult charts—and in hers I see more counter-balancing ease, to be honest.


even with her venus and moon conjunct natally in aries, tightly quincunxing her pluto? nevertheless, still doesnt detract from my orig. statements.


Going by a composite chart, I think it's quite likely that both would be much better off if they stayed away from each other.

But: if you are willing to go so far as to say that she provoked his rage, I think it's equally likely that it doesn't take much to provoke it.

sure i can agree with that. doesnt detract from my original statements though.

I must be looking at something different. A different chart. The wrong chart? I don't see any conjunction between natal Sun and tr Uranus. Furthermore, looking at her natal chart, I am far more uneasy than I am as I look at his. Again, missing birthtimes makes it very difficult. I just don't see enough in her chart to label her as a "victim archetype". You are seeing something I don't see. So we have an honest disagreement.


my typing error. i was refering to tr uranus conjuncting Progressed Sun, not natal. in regards to "victim archetype", i based this on whats going on with her mercury at the moment (clouded thinking), and early sun in pisces. i'm not saying the girl thinks she's a victim all the time, but based on what is going on in her life at the moment, i dont think it so farfetched to interpret from all this that her clouded thinking has made her believe that she herself is a victim In This Situation, that mindset contributing to a subconscious push towards brown to bring on this event, which led to her being able to break free of the demands and constraints of her career for a while (uranus conj prog sun). in addition to all this, her progressed moon is in capricorn, which hints at a current emotional focus of being in charge of emotional situations, another indication that she played the bigger role in the incident we are discussing (prog moon rules everything being transited by pluto, besides mars). with progressed neptune conjuncting progressed moon, there may be (once again) unclear thinking about how to go about this, leading to the (subconscious) assumption on her part that a situation such as her lover beating her up would be beneficial IN REGARDS to breaking free of constraints (tr uranus conj prog sun).

so basically, her emotional focus at the time (prog moon) and her way of thinking (mercury) are being affected by neptune. mars is the trigger, which contacts her mercury. mars in involved in the pluto transit to the configuration in their synastry. the focus of all this is how to effect the change asked for by tr uranus conj prog sun.



It would depend on the size of the person. If he obviously beat the heck out of another guy, and that guy was much too small and weak to have a chance to fight back, I think I'd feel the same way. For me the issue is not male/female but someone stronger and more powerful at least potentially doing serious physical damage to someone else.

well, like i said, i keep my personal feelings out of delineations.

[milkywaygirl]

Well of course it doesn't justify it, no one said that. It just looks like an experience the cosmos had prepared for those two individuals.

Yes, i agree.

[RockFish]

For natal placements she has Saturn/Uranus 0Cap32 and 0Cap13, respectively. Mars at 28Sag49.

Transiting Saturn was around 20 and 1/2 Virgo, and transiting Uranus was close to 21 Pis.

You would have to use very large orbs to connect the Saturn/Uranus opposition to her natal Mars. :)

Yes, I'm aware of that, an orb of 8 and 7 degrees, respectively, to Saturn and Uranus in relation to her Mars.

I do count them, tho. A 7 or 8 degree square is valid in my point of view. :)

Besides, if we discount the square, I don't see a lot of other placements that can explain such an event. T Pluto alone doesn't seem enough for me.

[DeLaSoul]

This girl has a Aries ASC.

[Arijana]

I always said the way she acts in her videos,and in general,that fierce militant ,cocky edge,like an Aries,and lookie here:devil:

when I look at her chart I really wonder did Brown beat her up or should it have been the other way around:devil: lol

[Arian Maverick]

I always said the way she acts in her videos,and in general,that fierce militant ,cocky edge,like an Aries,and lookie here

I am not familiar enough with Rhianna to make an educated guess upon her Ascendant, but how do you know she has full creative control over the content of her music videos? I would observe her mannerisms in private interviews before I examined her "behavior" in dramatic music videos.

when I look at her chart I really wonder did Brown beat her up or should it have been the other way around

Having planets in Aries does not make one immune to beatings or domestic violence. Look at Neptune square her Moon-Neptune conjunction; in my opinion, this indicates someone who may have a tendency to idealize relationships, even abusive ones. If this natal chart is correct, Venus is the ruler of her seventh house.

Arian Maverick

[DeLaSoul]

I always said the way she acts in her videos,and in general,that fierce militant ,cocky edge,like an Aries,and lookie here:devil:

when I look at her chart I really wonder did Brown beat her up or should it have been the other way around:devil: lol

LOL exactly! She was even in military cadets & stuff before her career & the music vid for 'HARD'. I definitely agree, ever since the Good Girl Gone Bad album, she's had an edgier look/performance. The music is darker & heavier.

Even in private interviews, RIHANNA does not show her true colors. She is very gaurded, you can tell theres a lot of vulnerability there.

As for the Chris Brown beating, she said she found a text msg on his phone from another woman he was possibly cheating w/. She wouldn't let go of the subject & the argument overheated. I'd imagine she was being pretty aggressive w/ Chris too.