How Einsteins Theory of Relativity proved the Immortality of the Soul.

[piercethevale]

E = MC2. In this brief equation Einstein said that Matter, M, is composed of essentially Light and Energy.
This equation also led to the theory and development of the Atomic Bomb and the theory of time travel.
By the above formula it is extrapolated somehow that if you could take off from this Planet in a space ship and achieve the Speed of Light then for every 'X' amount of years you travelled you would travel 'X' x 'Y' number of years into the future. I can't recall what the ratio is or if any Scientist can give one but it was something like 20 or 200 to 1 when I first heard this stuff.
So if you travel the 'Speed of Light' and you go FORWARD in time then how would one go backwards into time.
The answer is: "as all actions have an opposite and equal re-action",You slow Light down to your speed.
Did anyone notice the page 10 news item, back around Feb. 2003, that announced that American Gov't scientists were excited to have finally achieved slowing light down in a specially constructed chamber filled with exotic gases.
Apparently this experiment had been attempted for a number of years without success at no little expense....[yeah, I wondered ,"What the Hell could THEY be up to now"??!!].
[Also, THEY are presently attempting to create 'Black Holes' in tunnnels beneath the Swiss Alps presently...Man, you got to keep an eye on THEM!...they think THEY can control these things...the key work here is ''THINK" as in "SURMISE" or "HYPOTHESIZE"].
Now I'd like to bring up the concept of what happens at the speed of light squared...the C2 of E = MC2.
At that Speed Light Laps itself...that is light will eventually catch up to the first ray of light ever emitted and thus laps itself or loops...yep, just like NASCAR... [See Mobius strip and/or the icon for infinity].

At that point the past, present and future become ONE in that light. That is the speed of thought... the Speed one achieves in Astral projection into the Eternal Light that is one with the Holy Word...the OM.
This is the Light that cannont exist in our Universe and thus the Creator gave us two lesser forms of Light that can exist in our physical universe...the Sun and the Moon...his two Luminaries to rule side by side. [You see?...time is an illusion, that is a phenomena, created by the speed of light]
Anyways,back to Einsteins equation: ...If physical life is Matter, 'M'...then it, Life, is equal to...by algebraic equation; ... M = E/C2...i.e. Life is equal to Energy divided by the Speed of Light squared...or i.e. Life = Energy / OM .
So, if Life is composed of Gods Eternal Light and Word...then what is the Energy???

Answer...[I]LOVE is the Energy... God took his Love and divided it by his Eternal Light and created Life....a very simplistic analogy but nonetheless accurate and true.

Thus as Einstein said Matter cannot be destroyed only converted to Light and Energy...then the reverse is true for both Light and Energy...they cannot be destroyed...thus as you are 'Conscious' Light & Energy you cannot be destroyed...you are eternal in essence...only impermeable and changable in form.

...ps, I usually try to refer to God in the neutral gender but it is rather impossible to when utilizing such analogies as the above...I apologize to anyone who may be offended.

[millionora]

wow Piercethe Vale!!

That was pretty informative to say the least..

so my question is: according to this theory of immortality {which i personally believe}

is there a real Judgement day (Mother Earth comes to an end:( supposedly)? and if we believe there is, where does

all the matter go, if it were to change into forms of light and energy??

I know my thinking is a bit odd, but i am trying to piece many things together
and find the Truth if possible.

Love, Light, Truth!

Blessings!

[AquariusT]

Fascinating!

[piercethevale]

wow Piercethe Vale!!

That was pretty informative to say the least..

so my question is: according to this theory of immortality {which i personally believe}

is there a real Judgement day (Mother Earth comes to an end:( supposedly)? and if we believe there is, where does

all the matter go, if it were to change into forms of light and energy??

I know my thinking is a bit odd, but i am trying to piece many things together
and find the Truth if possible.

Love, Light, Truth!

Blessings!


...as the Sabian for my M.C and Part of Fortune is one and the same, the 25th degree of Leo ...about a camel crossing a desert ... independence and self sufficiency and such...I ended up here, at 55 years of age, with a bunch of experiences I pretty much acquired on my own [ but not without divine guidence and assistance at times] and recently I was fortunate enough to finally be accepted by a living Guru, Sri Prabhu Ram Lal of the Sadhan Order of Yoga, thanks to the intercession of a member of your forum whom is also a member at the astrodienst forum...he lives in Northern India and He also intoduced me to your forum here.
I know there is everlasting life. I know that we re-incarnate. I believe in Khrishna, Rama, Buddha and Yeshua [Jesus of Nazareth]...I believe in the readings of Edgar Cayce and I believe in Karma...that's about all I can tell you.
Jan 30 p.s.... [because that's about all I really know...that and prayer or mantra works...of course you get out of it what you put into it...I can tell you that there are entities ready to assist you...call them Angels, Devas, Light Entitities or what you will...read the posts I put in the 'People Who Experience the Occult' thread for more on that...I've seen them, interacted with them and I wouldn't be here today if not for them! I also believe our Creator Loves Us!]
Eternal Light & Love, Dave M....ptv

[freedomlover]

So, if Life is composed of Gods Eternal Light and Word...then what is the Energy???

Answer...LOVE is the Energy... God took his Love and divided it by his Eternal Light and created Life....a very simplistic analogy but nonetheless accurate and true.

I guess this explains why there is power released when one speaks the truth -
(The Word) in Love (Pure Energy)?:rolleyes:

[piercethevale]

I guess this explains why there is power released when one speaks the truth -
(The Word) in Love (Pure Energy)?:rolleyes:


...Vedic Science has a word for it, 'MATRIKASHAKTI' !

[From Rudhyars' book "An Astrological Mandalla", Part 3, Chapter 1] "...In the words of Subba Row, this means 'literally the force or power of letters or speech , or music, The whole of the ancient Mantra Shastra has this force or power in all its manifestations for its subject matter. The power of the Word which Jesus Christ speaks of is a manifestation of this shakti. The influence of music is one of its ordinary manifestations. The power of the mirific ineffable Name is the crown of this Shakti'.
The Word-in-the beginning [Gospel of St. John] is the gerninating seed-a seed which was the product of the previous cosmic cycle and which is sown in a new field of Space, creating the matrix for a new universe [thus Matrika-shakti]. A creative word or tone, a mantra, produces, as it were, a new field of Space in which a new spiritual Impulse can have its germinal beginning. At the sociocultural leval, this power of the creative wod refers to the symbol realising utterances and acts of 'seed men' in whom a cycle reaches its own omega state."

...OM TAT SAT OM [May Gods Truth Be made Manifest]

[natasa812]

As far for the Switcheland experiment, I don`t miss a single documentary about it - the newest ``news`` are that there is anti - matter. We - humans are built up from matter but for each one of us there is also another body called anti - matter which exists in another dimension (probably a Parallel Universe we did not discover yet).

Scientists are trying to make this anti - matter now and to discover one new electron.

As far for the Theory of Einstein - it comes in conflict with the Quantum theory prooving acctually that God exists and this ``conflict of theories`` is combating / disproving the modern physics.

Also, there are theories that claim that even an observation of the matter can affect the matter and that the thought has the power to affect it (in some countries this is called negative / positive energy or curse). It is interesting to see how this will manifest in Switcheland experiment. The above mentioned theory (this paragraph) is about some experiments that are carried out in Russia (they have a long tradition in those ``energy`` experiments - I was a little girl and I remember Russian alternative medicine called ``bioenergy`` - they traveled all over the Balkans and did some Seminars and healed people).

1. I hope my english is understandable
2. I admit that I don`t quite understand all of this theories
3. I HOPE THAT WE WILL FINALY PROOVE THE EXISTENCE OF THIS ``HIGHER ENERGY`` NO MATTER IF IT IS CALLED A THOUGHT OR POSITIVE THINKING OR WHATEVER...AND THAT HUMANITY WILL START A NEW AGE FOCUSING ON HEALING, BENEFIT AND BENEVOLENCE.

[millionora]

i think i smell the effects of the Jupiter/Neptune conjunction here...with this thread being revived again.....very nice indeed...you gotta love the Stars....

Love,light,truth

Blessings.

[piercethevale]

As far for the Switcheland experiment, I don`t miss a single documentary about it - the newest ``news`` are that there is anti - matter. We - humans are built up from matter but for each one of us there is also another body called anti - matter which exists in another dimension (probably a Parallel Universe we did not discover yet).

Scientists are trying to make this anti - matter now and to discover one new electron.

As far for the Theory of Einstein - it comes in conflict with the Quantum theory prooving acctually that God exists and this ``conflict of theories`` is combating / disproving the modern physics.

Also, there are theories that claim that even an observation of the matter can affect the matter and that the thought has the power to affect it (in some countries this is called negative / positive energy or curse). It is interesting to see how this will manifest in Switcheland experiment. The above mentioned theory (this paragraph) is about some experiments that are carried out in Russia (they have a long tradition in those ``energy`` experiments - I was a little girl and I remember Russian alternative medicine called ``bioenergy`` - they traveled all over the Balkans and did some Seminars and healed people).

1. I hope my english is understandable
2. I admit that I don`t quite understand all of this theories
3. I HOPE THAT WE WILL FINALY PROOVE THE EXISTENCE OF THIS ``HIGHER ENERGY`` NO MATTER IF IT IS CALLED A THOUGHT OR POSITIVE THINKING OR WHATEVER...AND THAT HUMANITY WILL START A NEW AGE FOCUSING ON HEALING, BENEFIT AND BENEVOLENCE.


Hi Natasa. Yes, a few years back some scientists proved that a watched pot of water will reach boiling point slower than one that isn't observed.
There are many things unexplained in physics...what Stephen Hawkings and his group are doing in the subterranean below the Swiss Alps is an attempt to create a 'Black Hole' and control it...a very dangerous and risky proposition...they don't know what they are messing with...could be the disaster everone is picking up on for 2012..."shudder".
Back in the 1940s the fellows involved with creating the Atomic Bomb weren't sure if it would create a chain reaction that would destroy the world if it was detonated...they set one off anyways...??!!??
The only real application of a 'Black Hole' is to annihilate light..."WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!!!???!!!"

[GreenMist]

"The only real application of a 'Black Hole' is to annihilate light..."WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!!!???!!!" "

Well, I don't think a black hole will annihilate light.. bear with me, I am pretty ignorant of physics.

I think black holes are made of a substance called "dark matter" of which 95% of the universe is made of. I also suspect that it is a Black hole which a soul travels through to reach the light after death of the body.

[samsum78]

Light does not escape black holes. However what is interesting about black holes is they emit radiation so approximately 5-10% of the energy is emitted by radiation according to E=MC2

[alternativebeliefs]

"The only real application of a 'Black Hole' is to annihilate light..."WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!!!???!!!" "

Well, I don't think a black hole will annihilate light.. bear with me, I am pretty ignorant of physics.

I think black holes are made of a substance called "dark matter" of which 95% of the universe is made of. I also suspect that it is a Black hole which a soul travels through to reach the light after death of the body.

Nobody really knows exactly what's happening inside a black hole, it may well contain dark matter.

Light cannot escape from black hole because the speed at which matter is drawn into a black hole, by virtue of it's gravitational pull, exceeds the speed of light.

[piercethevale]

Howdy, I now realize the word "annihilate" is somewhat innaccurate in regards to what occurs...I probably should have used the term "negates" or "subtracts" light as to it's relationship with the rest of the universe...a 'Black Hole' sort of "imprisons" it.

[Awakened_Pisces]

I'm no expert or knowledgable about physics but I have a philosophy I think holds true: There is Light within Darkness, and Darkness within Light.

Basically Yin-Yang are one with the other.

[HeyPlayGirl]

hey my part of fortune and midheaven are both 3 degrees in leo, similar to yours :happy:
anyway, i believe everything spiritual can be explained by science, ghosts, spirits, the breath of life. all of it. thats' why it boggles my mind when people are so "religious" that they refuse medicine or medical procedures, don't they know that is the higher power's way of saving lives? he's nto going to do some dramatic light beam/praying/angel descending scene. it's done with doctors, so medicine is the science god gave us to understand our health, astrology is the science god gave us to understand our life circumstances&luck, and the theory of relativity is the equation god gave us to understand our eternal souls and time. i easily equate science/religion/spirituality together, but i'm a virgo so i need facts and statistics for everything including the supernatural haha :wink:
(btw i'm aware your intelligent post and my mediocre comment are in 2 diff leagues!)


...as the Sabian for my M.C and Part of Fortune is one and the same, the 25th degree of Leo ...about a camel crossing a desert ... independence and self sufficiency and such...I ended up here, at 55 years of age, with a bunch of experiences I pretty much acquired on my own [ but not without divine guidence and assistance at times] and recently I was fortunate enough to finally be accepted by a living Guru, Sri Prabhu Ram Lal of the Sadhan Order of Yoga, thanks to the intercession of a member of your forum whom is also a member at the astrodienst forum...he lives in Northern India and He also intoduced me to your forum here.
I know there is everlasting life. I know that we re-incarnate. I believe in Khrishna, Rama, Buddha and Yeshua [Jesus of Nazareth]...I believe in the readings of Edgar Cayce and I believe in Karma...that's about all I can tell you.
Jan 30 p.s.... [because that's about all I really know...that and prayer or mantra works...of course you get out of it what you put into it...I can tell you that there are entities ready to assist you...call them Angels, Devas, Light Entitities or what you will...read the posts I put in the 'People Who Experience the Occult' thread for more on that...I've seen them, interacted with them and I wouldn't be here today if not for them! I also believe our Creator Loves Us!]
Eternal Light & Love, Dave M....ptv

[freedomlover]

That was a very insightful reply, HeyPlayGirl.
It made some things clearer for me.:)

[piercethevale]

Hey, here's something that has tossed around in my mind for awhile.
They say the universe is expanding...but expanding into where?
If everything was created in the beginning, as many a different 'Genesis' tale is told by different cultures/creeds...the I believe the universe was born at it's limit and that all available area of space was within that limit. Thus this expansion that some scientists say they have observed is nothing more than an illusion. See, I believe for every micron of space that appears to be gained is off set by an equal amount of space that is condensed by effects of a "Black Hole"...I mean, think about...esp those of you with some Vedic or Buddhist background/understanding...it makes some sense.

...also it is curious about what one of you said about Light within darkness...I know many Swamis and yogis whom wear White to signify "The giving of 'The Light' "...and of some that wear black to retain more light within themselves for power or other benifits attributed to the grace of The Light...curious indeed.

[piercethevale]

...and now that I think about it wouldn't a man made black hole carried within spacecraft become some sort of condenser of space around it and allow said craft to travel far greater distances in the same amout of time...sort of like "Star Treks, Warp Drive"...maybe that's what they are attempting in the bowels of those Mts. in Switzerland...i.e figuring out how to create a black hole and contain it!


...I still say they are crazy for such an attempt at something of which they know so little about.

[freedomlover]

...also it is curious about what one of you said about Light within darkness...I know many Swamis and yogis whom wear White to signify "The giving of 'The Light' "...and of some that wear black to retain more light within themselves for power or other benifits attributed to the grace of The Light...curious indeed.

I'm of the understanding that black represents the void - the Yin- the Divine Feminine - the Divine Mother. It is receptive and protective.

It reminds me of a quote I read recently ( from a Yogi, I think)...

Abide in Being... not trying to become anything .....
and nothing can harm you.

[piercethevale]

Abide in Being... not trying to become anything .....
and nothing can harm you.[/QUOTE]


...tht sounds like a Buddahist yogi to me.

...personally my path of yoga is Hindu/Christian and I aspire towards the "Light"...which I have personally experienced to be "protective".

[piercethevale]

I haven't visited this thread in awhile, and I did want to post here for some time now, that the 'Energy, ...imho... should be represented by the symbol of the


"Yin - Yang"


... it split that into this 'Creation' of opposites.
I should have stated it like a true Gnostic yogi would, from the get go.
Thanks to Awakened_Pisces and Freedom Lover's comments it came to me as the honest way to state it.
[I do believe in Spiritual healing as well as that of medical science. Our fellow member Freedom Lover has been under the weather for some time and has had a rough go of it. I ask of any of you that know Her and can spare some prayers for her, please do so. Pray for her health and financial wellness, if you will, she's a much deserving soul and person. Thanks, ptv]

[piercethevale]

"The only real application of a 'Black Hole' is to annihilate light..."WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!!!???!!!" "

Well, I don't think a black hole will annihilate light.. bear with me, I am pretty ignorant of physics.

I think black holes are made of a substance called "dark matter" of which 95% of the universe is made of. I also suspect that it is a Black hole which a soul travels through to reach the light after death of the body.

As I see that you are now banned, and I figure that you probably come back as a guest once in awhile...I just wanted to say "Thanks" for that useful post!:cool::biggrin:

[JUPITERASC]

Hey, here's something that has tossed around in my mind for awhile.
They say the universe is expanding...but expanding into where?
If everything was created in the beginning, as many a different 'Genesis' tale is told by different cultures/creeds...the I believe the universe was born at it's limit and that all available area of space was within that limit. Thus this expansion that some scientists say they have observed is nothing more than an illusion. See, I believe for every micron of space that appears to be gained is off set by an equal amount of space that is condensed by effects of a "Black Hole"...I mean, think about...esp those of you with some Vedic or Buddhist background/understanding...it makes some sense.

...also it is curious about what one of you said about Light within darkness...I know many Swamis and yogis whom wear White to signify "The giving of 'The Light' "...and of some that wear black to retain more light within themselves for power or other benifits attributed to the grace of The Light...curious indeed.
In the Aggañña Sutta Buddha says to the monk Vasettha - a former Brahmin - that "the universe expands and contracts over extremely long periods of time". Viewable as a paragraph headed “The Beginning of Humankind” at http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/AggannaSutta.pdf Interesting that this description seems apparently consistent with Einstein expanding universe/Big Bang theory :smile:

[Fifth House Sun]

Sheol and the Lake of Fire. Sheol is a big *** wood pile to the Lake of Fire's big *** burn pile in it's ignited state of a big *** bon fire.


For the longest time I had concluded that there was no eternal damnation by an omnipotent and omniscient Creator.

I have recently changed my opinion that is definitely possible, because if souls are given numerous chances to be decent and never evolve and continue in selfish manners to the expense and pain of others then there may come a time, perhaps when the universe begins to collapse, when they must be converted in the Lake of Fire.

The reason I changed my mind is because of the wickedness of this world most people are truly evil and serve their own interest at the expense and suffering of others without any remorse whatsoever. Many are already stacked in Sheol, maybe the can incarnate again to redeem themselves, or maybe their chances have run out, or maybe there is a set time, maybe that time is soon. I honestly hope it is, because I am ready to live in a world where our senses are wide open and lies are a thing of the past or at least pointless. A society governed by Truth and justice and equality and Love and kindness.



In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

http://bible.cc/john/14-2.htm

the universe is infinite and still expanding

edit woops i just read JUPITERASC's previous post. i need to read the Rigveda

[retinoid]

FIFTH HOUSE remember that most people who do bad things are not necessarily BAD...they are usually stuck in their egos and trapped souls. They are not 'evil'...there are some people who are way too far gone though and may need to reincarnate again starting the cycle over at a common bacterium though...such as people who have no remorse and feel good when people are in pain. But a lake of fire is not how the universe works.

[Fifth House Sun]

FIFTH HOUSE remember that most people who do bad things are not necessarily BAD...they are usually stuck in their egos and trapped souls. They are not 'evil'...there are some people who are way too far gone though and may need to reincarnate again starting the cycle over at a common bacterium though...such as people who have no remorse and feel good when people are in pain. But a lake of fire is not how the universe works.


a lake of fire is exactly how the universe works. what is the sun? what are stars? they are big *** lakes of fire? i've thought about this a great deal in terms of energy as well. and i'm just gonna leave it at that.

[retinoid]

a lake of fire is exactly how the universe works. what is the sun? what are stars? they are big *** lakes of fire? i've thought about this a great deal in terms of energy as well. and i'm just gonna leave it at that.

Stars are mostly plasma. Nuclear fusion at its core creates energy. But it isn't a lake of fire and souls don't burn in lakes of fire.

[piercethevale]

Sheol and the Lake of Fire. Sheol is a big *** wood pile to the Lake of Fire's big *** burn pile in it's ignited state of a big *** bon fire.


For the longest time I had concluded that there was no eternal damnation by an omnipotent and omniscient Creator.

I have recently changed my opinion that is definitely possible, because if souls are given numerous chances to be decent and never evolve and continue in selfish manners to the expense and pain of others then there may come a time, perhaps when the universe begins to collapse, when they must be converted in the Lake of Fire.

The reason I changed my mind is because of the wickedness of this world most people are truly evil and serve their own interest at the expense and suffering of others without any remorse whatsoever. Many are already stacked in Sheol, maybe the can incarnate again to redeem themselves, or maybe their chances have run out, or maybe there is a set time, maybe that time is soon. I honestly hope it is, because I am ready to live in a world where our senses are wide open and lies are a thing of the past or at least pointless. A society governed by Truth and justice and equality and Love and kindness.



In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

http://bible.cc/john/14-2.htm

the universe is infinite and still expanding

edit woops i just read JUPITERASC's previous post. i need to read the Rigveda
Interesting. Right below me is the American River and right up river a few miles, give or take, is Folsom Prison and until about 1880 [I believe it is, I don't have the facts handy] about 185 prisoners were executed by hanging. Among them were men that had definitely committed some of the most heinous crimes imaginable. Down stream from the prison is an old Cottonwood tree that is apparently well over 150 years old and in the bark of the tree you can see faces ...faces in torment as the tree grows older these faces are torn up by the expansion of the bark and the more they get 'torn up' the more tormented they appear to be.
I showed this to one of the local Wiccan/Druidic oriented citizens and we talked about it that afternoon. He came to a conclusion that such souls are caused to dissolve into the material...a lesser state of being ..so as to be reassembled in some manner...or possibly dissolved for all time...but I personally believe in the "No Soul left behind" theory myself.

[retinoid]

I showed this to one of the local Wiccan/Druidic oriented citizens and we talked about it that afternoon. He came to a conclusion that such souls are caused to dissolve into the material...a lesser state of being ..so as to be reassembled in some manner...or possibly dissolved for all time...but I personally believe in the "No Soul left behind" theory myself.

I guess it all depends what you believe the soul is exactly. If you adhere to the vedic mystic (Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita), then the Self/Soul/Atman is basically 'god'...the evil doesn't come from god, it comes from the ego and delusion, which also activates Karma when you do with intent for your own gratification (this in itself is considered illusion since why would you harm other sentient beings for illusory, impermanent objects that decay?) However if you do enough evil, I do believe you eventually are very far gone and removed and probably are at a lower vibration and so are then pulled/attracted to such a vibration.

[Fifth House Sun]

Stars are mostly plasma. Nuclear fusion at its core creates energy. But it isn't a lake of fire and souls don't burn in lakes of fire.


Anything is possible. The sun could also be made of boiling OJ, grapefruit juice, cayenne pepper powder, and met AM fetacheese.

The truth is is that we do not know, in the true sence of the word know, what the sun and stars are made of. If you say that you certainly absolutely do know then you are either brainwashed into box or you are an ascended master.

And considering what Astrology is at the core.......



Personally, I don't believe a soul would theoretically spend all of eternity in the lake fire, or a lake of fire, on some other star in some other universe after, going through a black hole, for all of eternity, but a specific perfect divine time required for the necessary conversion and evilution, if the soul was retarded.

[Fifth House Sun]

According to these one people(Yezidi(sp?)) name slipping my mind we were created by the Peacock Angel, Tawsi Melek(sp?), some say that the Peacock Angel is Lucifer or Satan. I am not certain that Lucifer is evil. My reasoning is the lies of the Church and the contradictions in the Bible, and the obvious evil of enormous proportion dealt out by the Christian Church, and it's complete whacked out history and mainly origin. So ....

Anyway I have theorized that we are in "Hell" now, and we are all the devil(not Lucifer or Satan) and fleshly incarnated Life is sort of a straining process.

[JUPITERASC]

According to these one people(Yezidi(sp?)) name slipping my mind we were created by the Peacock Angel, Tawsi Melek(sp?), some say that the Peacock Angel is Lucifer or Satan. I am not certain that Lucifer is evil. My reasoning is the lies of the Church and the contradictions in the Bible, and the obvious evil of enormous proportion dealt out by the Christian Church, and it's complete whacked out history and mainly origin. So ....

Anyway I have theorized that we are in "Hell" now, and we are all the devil(not Lucifer or Satan) and fleshly incarnated Life is sort of a straining process.
Lucifer aka The 'Morning Star' aka the planet Venus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer :smile:
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer)

[piercethevale]

From the movie 'The Usual Suspects' came one of the greatest lines I've ever heard in a film.
It was spoken by Kevin Spacey whom played the lead role in the movie.
As he was being interrogated by the police he told them. :devil:
"You know, the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled is convincing the world that he doesn't exist." :wink:

[Fifth House Sun]

I 2012% certain that there is evil and a devil. but think about how the you were never supposed to say the name of the lord or write it or make pictures or images or forms of anything in some decrees. and it is obvious that the Roman Catholic Church is evil in my opinion. They admit themselves that they have more power than "God" i don't call the Almighty Creator "god" because i believe it is not accurate. or somehow an insult put forth by the wicked, those who worship the devil. the Bible has massive contradictions. The Bible itself says that the evil one will do EVERYTHING his power to hide the truth. and the Bible also states many times that changing it's contents is something that people should be aware of.

[Prominent]

evil is what you make of it.. good is what you make of it.. The moment you have good, you also have it's opposite because you must have a background that can produce awareness of a foreground- a sense of relativity and space. The space is what connects sides and creates understanding for without space there would be no way to sense anything.

[retinoid]

evil is what you make of it.. good is what you make of it.. The moment you have good, you also have it's opposite because you must have a background that can produce awareness of a foreground- a sense of relativity and space. The space is what connects sides and creates understanding for without space there would be no way to sense anything.

I agree with you that evil came about due emanation. The truest reality does not have good or evil. The Supreme is not good or evil...though good/love/etc. is closest to the supreme because it aligns more with being one than evil does (which is pure delusion)...though evil still has its PLACE/PURPOSE but it is not PERMISSIBLE and should never be excused. Being good and loving is much closer to the supreme reality but is not the supreme reality.

[JUPITERASC]

From the movie 'The Usual Suspects' came one of the greatest lines I've ever heard in a film.
It was spoken by Kevin Spacey whom played the lead role in the movie.
As he was being interrogated by the police he told them. :devil:
"You know, the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled is convincing the world that he doesn't exist." :wink:
There are many great lines from films - here are a few more :smile:


100 word extract sourced from The Matrix - Tumbling Down The Rabbit Holehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbYirSi08m4
QUOTE of dialogue between MORPHEUS AND NEO:



"You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he's expecting to wake up. Ironically, this is not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo?

No.

Why not?

'Cause I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.

I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know, you can't explain. But you feel it. You felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there"....



attached: Photo of Einstein sitting on the front steps of his home in Princeton, wearing his fuzzy slippers.
Photo Credit: Photo courtesy of Gillett Griffin.

[Prominent]

I agree with you that evil came about due emanation. The truest reality does not have good or evil.
Of course it has 'good' or 'evil', if it had nothing between right or wrong then nothing would be true.. Nothing would be true, but truth it is not. To 'have'(halve) anything creates truth.

The Supreme is not good or evil...though good/love/etc. is closest to the supreme because it aligns more with being one than evil does (which is pure delusion)Being one? one of what?.. One half of the whole, in which case evil is also one half and likewise equally close or equally distant. Pure love is equally delusional than pure evil because to love purely is to cast away your opposite and suppress it within yourself- an act that isn't pure at all because it create blindness rather than clarity regardless of which side you're on.

...though evil still has its PLACE/PURPOSE but it is not PERMISSIBLE and should never be excused. Being good and loving is much closer to the supreme reality but is not the supreme reality.The closer you take love or hate towards their extremes, the more you separate yourself from truth. You become suppressive to a point where this is forced upon your other side, and from this stance they are both impressible and forceful, powerful.. but neither good nor evil. Their struggle is expressed unto all as both where both can be felt.

[piercethevale]

If you'll all notice I did replace what I had originally ascribed to be symbolic of the 'Energy" in the equation. Replacing "Love" with the symbol known as the "Yin-Yang"
As the symbol is of 'Dualism' but in a unified sense it does make sense to me that the "Word of Creation and Light" had to divide it in order to create "Matter" in this Universe.
I do want to mention that my 'Part of Self Undoing', i.e. Asc. + Cusp 12th - Neptune, [An 'Astrological Part' which I only became somewhat convinced of last night while analyzing Richard Nixon's natal chart] is 19* Scorpio 27'...that is the 20th degree of Scorpio and for which the Sabian symbol is: [from Rudhyar's book]

Scorpio 20* "A WOMAN DRAWS AWAY TWO DARK CURTAINS CLOSING THE ENTRANCE TO A SACRED PATHWAY.

KEYNOTE: The revelation to the human consciousness of what lies beyond dualistic knowledge.

The [Feminine half of eachs' nature] — the faith that is rooted in the deepest intuitions of the soul — is seen here as the hierophant unveiling the realities which the... [everything is 'Black' or 'White', 'Negative or Positive', 'Good or Evil', 'Darkness or Light'] mind of man alone cannot perceive. The path to the mystic's "unitive life" is opened up once the darkness of fear, egocentricity and dualistic morality is removed. ...

... [It demonstrates what a 'Spiritual, or Cosmic' optimism has] upon faith and intuition [I][and] can bring about. Courage is needed to go through the veiling darkness — the courage to venture beyond the familiar and the traditionally known, to PLUNGE AHEAD INTO THE UNKNOWN"

...and as I have now pointed that out... hopefully you all will understand if I avoid, any further, this particular matter of the overall topic here.

[retinoid]

Of course it has 'good' or 'evil', if it had nothing between right or wrong then nothing would be true.. Nothing would be true, but truth it is not. To 'have'(halve) anything creates truth.

Being one? one of what?.. One half of the whole, in which case evil is also one half and likewise equally close or equally distant. Pure love is equally delusional than pure evil because to love purely is to cast away your opposite and suppress it within yourself- an act that isn't pure at all because it create blindness rather than clarity regardless of which side you're on.

The closer you take love or hate towards their extremes, the more you separate yourself from truth. You become suppressive to a point where this is forced upon your other side, and from this stance they are both impressible and forceful, powerful.. but neither good nor evil. Their struggle is expressed unto all as both where both can be felt.

Prominent I think you have to feel it to know it. That is all I have to say on the subject. It cannot be philosophized or proven. The ultimate is beyond good or evil and is very unlike the physical realm.

[Fifth House Sun]

E = MC2. In this brief equation Einstein said that Matter, M, is composed of essentially Light and Energy.
This equation also led to the theory and development of the Atomic Bomb and the theory of time travel.
By the above formula it is extrapolated somehow that if you could take off from this Planet in a space ship and achieve the Speed of Light then for every 'X' amount of years you travelled you would travel 'X' x 'Y' number of years into the future. I can't recall what the ratio is or if any Scientist can give one but it was something like 20 or 200 to 1 when I first heard this stuff.
So if you travel the 'Speed of Light' and you go FORWARD in time then how would one go backwards into time.
The answer is: "as all actions have an opposite and equal re-action",You slow Light down to your speed.
Did anyone notice the page 10 news item, back around Feb. 2003, that announced that American Gov't scientists were excited to have finally achieved slowing light down in a specially constructed chamber filled with exotic gases.
Apparently this experiment had been attempted for a number of years without success at no little expense....[yeah, I wondered ,"What the Hell could THEY be up to now"??!!].
[Also, THEY are presently attempting to create 'Black Holes' in tunnnels beneath the Swiss Alps presently...Man, you got to keep an eye on THEM!...they think THEY can control these things...the key work here is ''THINK" as in "SURMISE" or "HYPOTHESIZE"].
Now I'd like to bring up the concept of what happens at the speed of light squared...the C2 of E = MC2.
At that Speed Light Laps itself...that is light will eventually catch up to the first ray of light ever emitted and thus laps itself or loops...yep, just like NASCAR... [See Mobius strip and/or the icon for infinity].

At that point the past, present and future become ONE in that light. That is the speed of thought... the Speed one achieves in Astral projection into the Eternal Light that is one with the Holy Word...the OM.
This is the Light that cannont exist in our Universe and thus the Creator gave us two lesser forms of Light that can exist in our physical universe...the Sun and the Moon...his two Luminaries to rule side by side. [You see?...time is an illusion, that is a phenomena, created by the speed of light]
Anyways,back to Einsteins equation: ...If physical life is Matter, 'M'...then it, Life, is equal to...by algebraic equation; ... M = E/C2...i.e. Life is equal to Energy divided by the Speed of Light squared...or i.e. Life = Energy / OM .
So, if Life is composed of Gods Eternal Light and Word...then what is the Energy???

Answer...[I]LOVE is the Energy... God took his Love and divided it by his Eternal Light and created Life....a very simplistic analogy but nonetheless accurate and true.

Thus as Einstein said Matter cannot be destroyed only converted to Light and Energy...then the reverse is true for both Light and Energy...they cannot be destroyed...thus as you are 'Conscious' Light & Energy you cannot be destroyed...you are eternal in essence...only impermeable and changable in form.

...ps, I usually try to refer to God in the neutral gender but it is rather impossible to when utilizing such analogies as the above...I apologize to anyone who may be offended.

I just wanted to clarify that I am talking about the Lake of Fire, and of course there are many, perhaps an infinite number, of lakes of fire, in direct relation to the way Piercethevale is talking about Light and Energy and conscious souls/spirits. and in a manner according to my understanding of what Astrology actually is. This is something I first thought of long ago, but I never thought about Einstiens theory or the way Piercethevale and maybe Prominent have described, at least not that I can recall. For I have forgotten a fair amount.

Then you could also include Retinoid's perspective on plasmic nuclear fusion is what is going on, and it fits the theory perfectly. whether it is difusion or a combination of both. i would suspect that it is difusion until a sun spot erupts and that is fusion. or maybe i have it backwards. yea maybe opposite what i originally said makes more sense. who knows?

[Fifth House Sun]

Prominent I think you have to feel it to know it. That is all I have to say on the subject. It cannot be philosophized or proven. The ultimate is beyond good or evil and is very unlike the physical realm.

My personal belief is that there can be a society, and that one will exist, and one has supposedly existed in South America according to a Spanish explorer, where evil is not present, or perhaps somehow it is only contained, and I believe the Bible mentions this type of containment.

or perhaps it is simply truly identified without lies and deception of any kind allowing it to be put to rest.

[JUPITERASC]

I 2012% certain that there is evil and a devil. but think about how the you were never supposed to say the name of the lord or write it or make pictures or images or forms of anything in some decrees. and it is obvious that the Roman Catholic Church is evil in my opinion. They admit themselves that they have more power than "God" i don't call the Almighty Creator "god" because i believe it is not accurate. or somehow an insult put forth by the wicked, those who worship the devil. the Bible has massive contradictions. The Bible itself says that the evil one will do EVERYTHING his power to hide the truth. and the Bible also states many times that changing it's contents is something that people should be aware of.
evil is what you make of it.. good is what you make of it.. The moment you have good, you also have it's opposite because you must have a background that can produce awareness of a foreground- a sense of relativity and space. The space is what connects sides and creates understanding for without space there would be no way to sense anything.

I agree with you that evil came about due emanation. The truest reality does not have good or evil. The Supreme is not good or evil...though good/love/etc. is closest to the supreme because it aligns more with being one than evil does (which is pure delusion)...though evil still has its PLACE/PURPOSE but it is not PERMISSIBLE and should never be excused. Being good and loving is much closer to the supreme reality but is not the supreme reality.
Einsteins scene basically is 'everything is relative' :smile:

[retinoid]

Einsteins scene basically is 'everything is relative' :smile:

If you are referring to relativity it is based on the inverse relationship between time and speed (faster you travel the slower time is hence 'relativity')...if you want to extrapolate it to everything else that is something different. Overall it doesn't matter much which is right or wrong or closest to correct...I think we can all agree evil is not ideal. And that is the main conclusion we should come to.

[JUPITERASC]

If you are referring to relativity it is based on the inverse relationship between time and speed (faster you travel the slower time is hence 'relativity')...if you want to extrapolate it to everything else that is something different. Overall it doesn't matter much which is right or wrong or closest to correct...I think we can all agree evil is not ideal. And that is the main conclusion we should come to.
fwiw IMO any 'agreement' is necessarily relative, since most of us have our own opinions

- and that's no problem IMO because we are all entitled to our own opinions -

the 'Einsteinian' scene is one that accepts that others have opinions that may differ from our own because simply - it's all relative :smile:

[retinoid]

fwiw IMO any 'agreement' is necessarily relative, since most of us have our own opinions

- and that's no problem IMO because we are all entitled to our own opinions -

the 'Einsteinian' scene is one that accepts that others have opinions that may differ from our own because simply - it's all relative :smile:

Yes I agree in the world of the 'mind' and 'multiplicity' we have many different views and opinions. Sort of like religions...but I think if we find the commonality in everything then that is most important. It doesn't matter HOW you rise above the trees to look at the light...so it doesn't quite matter what exactly you think the nature of evil is or if there is a devil, it just matters what the commonality is (I think it is we all think evil is bad). Just as if someone is traveling at the speed of light (time didn't move) while someone at rest would have aged a million years. The conclusion? Not who was 'right' about time, but the conclusion would be that time varies and is an illusion. You would find that to be true if you analyzed each person's perspective and compared it.

[Prominent]

Prominent I think you have to feel it to know it. That is all I have to say on the subject. It cannot be philosophized or proven. The ultimate is beyond good or evil and is very unlike the physical realm.

You're wrong, because you're ignoring what makes sense. If philosophizing helps a person understand, then this knowledge can help a person feel things about themselves they may not have felt before.
retinoid, You don't seem to understand what Feeling IS..
Why do you try to separate yourself from what is real? Separating evil from good would be heartless on your part- it would only serve to suppress those who have been left behind within neither a black or white state of mind. They would never be able to find truth in your favored way.

[JUPITERASC]

Yes I agree in the world of the 'mind' and 'multiplicity' we have many different views and opinions. Sort of like religions...but I think if we find the commonality in everything then that is most important. It doesn't matter HOW you rise above the trees to look at the light...
You agree that we all have different views and opinions and that fact in itself implies that there is no UNIVERSAL commonality...
...so it doesn't quite matter what exactly you think the nature of evil is or if there is a devil, it just matters what the commonality is (I think it is we all think evil is bad).
That is clearly your personal opinion, however there is a flaw within your contention...

i.e. although obviously 'evil' = 'bad' there is nevertheless no commonality as to the specifics of 'evil' aka 'badness'...

HENCE what is considered 'evil' by one person or group of people may frequently be observed as being considered 'good' by another group of people
....Just as if someone is traveling at the speed of light (time didn't move)
Obviously only light travels at the speed of light so your theory is theoretically unstable

- any physical object approaching the speed of light gains infinite mass. :smile:
...while someone at rest would have aged a million years. The conclusion? Not who was 'right' about time, but the conclusion would be that time varies and is an illusion. You would find that to be true if you analyzed each person's perspective and compared it.
There is no way of proving your contention therefore it remains in the category of "how many angels can dance on the end of a pin"

In any event there are those who would consider your comments as simply a personal conclusion aka opinion that you have reached based on your own relative experiences.

Since we all have different experiences as well as different reactions to similar experiences then there is no commonality - that's just my two cents worth

[retinoid]

You're wrong, because you're ignoring what makes sense. If philosophizing helps a person understand, then this knowledge can help a person feel things about themselves they may not have felt before.
retinoid, You don't seem to understand what Feeling IS..
Why do you try to separate yourself from what is real? Separating evil from good would be heartless on your part- it would only serve to suppress those who have been left behind within neither a black or white state of mind. They would never be able to find truth in your favored way.

You don't understand feeling. Some things are beyond your capability to reason.

[Prominent]

You don't understand feeling. Some things are beyond your capability to reason.
What is reason?
How can you reason if you believe that reason itself does not produce any form of sense that you can feel. You assume that your thought lacks feeling in and of itself but if it lacked any form of feeling that is perceptible then you would not be thinking at all.
Reason consists of feeling. This feeling is just of a different kind, similar to how we have various senses.. touch, taste, hearing, etc... science shows that there are countless more senses, and thought and reason are senses too.

[tautomer]

This is likely going to come across as rude or snotty; either way. There are too many logical inconsistancies in your idea with what your presenting. Really don't feel like pointing them out, as it will be wasted energy. No one's gonna budge off their opinion. That's painfully obvious. They also would not stand up to scientific experimentation to prove this. Simply put, I think it's nonsense to think that the exsistance of the soul is going to be found in something like E=MC squared, maxwells equations, quantum mechanic equations (zero point energy, debroglie wavelength, uncertainty principal). Etc. etc.

Also, for the record, I definitely believe in the concept and idea of souls. I've had too many personal life experiences to think otherwise. It's just that, well, I'm a scientist (chemist). I get flustered when individuals without a science background try to fuse the two ideas together in ways that they don't belong.

Meh, best for me to stay out of this topic.

[retinoid]

... science shows that there are countless more senses, and thought and reason are senses too.

Okay but sometimes silence is the best teacher when nothing in your mind or nothing through your eyes are obstructing the view. I've got my best realizations when I just don't think or see a bunch of stuff and just look at perhaps grass and an ant, then all my answers are 'answered'...after days of obsessing over something.

[JUPITERASC]

Okay but sometimes silence is the best teacher....
Intriguingly, Albert Einstein did not speak until after his 3rd birthday :smile:

[Prominent]

Okay but sometimes silence is the best teacher when nothing in your mind or nothing through your eyes are obstructing the view. I've got my best realizations when I just don't think or see a bunch of stuff and just look at perhaps grass and an ant, then all my answers are 'answered'...after days of obsessing over something.

I guess the question with that is, how does a person sense nothing?

[Fifth House Sun]

This is likely going to come across as rude or snotty; either way. There are too many logical inconsistancies in your idea with what your presenting. Really don't feel like pointing them out, as it will be wasted energy. No one's gonna budge off their opinion. That's painfully obvious. They also would not stand up to scientific experimentation to prove this. Simply put, I think it's nonsense to think that the exsistance of the soul is going to be found in something like E=MC squared, maxwells equations, quantum mechanic equations (zero point energy, debroglie wavelength, uncertainty principal). Etc. etc.

Also, for the record, I definitely believe in the concept and idea of souls. I've had too many personal life experiences to think otherwise. It's just that, well, I'm a scientist (chemist). I get flustered when individuals without a science background try to fuse the two ideas together in ways that they don't belong.

Meh, best for me to stay out of this topic.

bio electricity is different than the electricity that runs our lights. but i knew a dude who measured on electronic testers for regular house electrical wires and the like.

you are probably right that the exact thing is not accurate equation, but something similiar. the two are close, but not exact, yet sometimes they can overlap. IN THE SCIENTIFIC REALM.

[Prominent]

for the sake of argument.. what if we are defining the soul incorrectly? It could be as if we are looking with colorblind eyes at colors trying to discern what colors look like. If most people's impression of the soul isn't in actuality what our understanding of the soul truly is, then perhaps we can discover an explanation for it scientifically if we adjust our preconceived notions as to what a soul is.
This raises another question- how can we be sure of anything?
How do you go about creating a situation that can measure a soul like you could measure how much water is within a cup? What variables must be used?

[Fifth House Sun]

i am a real scientist

[Fifth House Sun]

for the sake of argument.. what if we are defining the soul incorrectly? It could be as if we are looking with colorblind eyes at colors trying to discern what colors look like. If most people's impression of the soul isn't in actuality what our understanding of the soul truly is, then perhaps we can discover an explanation for it scientifically if we adjust our preconceived notions as to what a soul is.
This raises another question- how can we be sure of anything?
How do you go about creating a situation that can measure a soul like you could measure how much water is within a cup? What variables must be used?

you are exactly right on the path to correctness. this is an Astrology forum, but what if no one even knows what Astrology is? I've hinted at it numerous times.

[JUPITERASC]

for the sake of argument.. what if we are defining the soul incorrectly? It could be as if we are looking with colorblind eyes at colors trying to discern what colors look like. If most people's impression of the soul isn't in actuality what our understanding of the soul truly is, then perhaps we can discover an explanation for it scientifically if we adjust our preconceived notions as to what a soul is.
This raises another question- how can we be sure of anything?
Ironically, there is the certainty of Change aka Impermanence :smile:

How do you go about creating a situation that can measure a soul like you could measure how much water is within a cup? What variables must be used?
Good question to mull over fwiw IMO though seems on a par with "How long is a piece of string?"

[retinoid]

I guess the question with that is, how does a person sense nothing?

That's the point. The nothing is EVERYTHING. You can't understand the 'ultimate' using logic based on this world/realm it is like an ant trying to understand black holes.

[retinoid]

for the sake of argument.. what if we are defining the soul incorrectly? It could be as if we are looking with colorblind eyes at colors trying to discern what colors look like. If most people's impression of the soul isn't in actuality what our understanding of the soul truly is, then perhaps we can discover an explanation for it scientifically if we adjust our preconceived notions as to what a soul is.
This raises another question- how can we be sure of anything?
How do you go about creating a situation that can measure a soul like you could measure how much water is within a cup? What variables must be used?

I don't think anyone here can be totally sure we have a soul. We have to honestly say for sure that we don't know. We can only go based on our own. But if someone asked me to prove it, I would say I can't! In fact I do not know what the soul is exactly anyway. But it doesn't matter to me. I do not know a lot of things!

[Prominent]

I agree with you retinoid.
It's all very strange..

I think a lot of confusion occurs with the assumption that there is more, something missing. Yet it is exactly that which allows understanding and growth.

[paneagle7]

I don't think anyone here can be totally sure we have a soul. We have to honestly say for sure that we don't know. We can only go based on our own. But if someone asked me to prove it, I would say I can't! In fact I do not know what the soul is exactly anyway. But it doesn't matter to me. I do not know a lot of things!

My view - There not only is Soul, but that we are Soul. That is what we are. If it comes into the body at birth, it animates that life. It is within us,
but it aligns or is with what we are about, what we live with, and so on.

The reason silence gives rise to insight, is it allows this Soul to become alive. In other words, realize the soul is, and you will see it not any different from you, yourself.

I would turn some readers to Ramana Maharshi teachings, wikipedia his life story. You may see in his life and in being that spirit of 'inquiry' becomes this. We seek not what is not there, but what is!

hope this helps. best; pan

[JUPITERASC]

....If it comes into the body at birth, it animates that life.
That description describes Air paneagle :smile:

[Prominent]

I prefer to believe that each of us is a spirit, and that which we are not, is the soul. The soul makes us up, but we specifically are a spirit because in my eyes spirit signifies action and souls signify a stillness.
We could be both, but from the point of view of living, it makes more sense to me that a spirit has more responsibility in that.

[retinoid]

I prefer to believe that each of us is a spirit, and that which we are not, is the soul. The soul makes us up, but we specifically are a spirit because in my eyes spirit signifies action and souls signify a stillness.
We could be both, but from the point of view of living, it makes more sense to me that a spirit has more responsibility in that.

Interesting way to put it. Spirit does, while soul is more still. I think that the spirit is akin to a drop of water, while soul/all is the ocean.

[piercethevale]

As I said. The experience I had...and it was quite real...is that there is a singular consciousness that has integrity. As I entered that which I can only describe as a 'Hall of Lights' I knew that there were thousands*of other singular lights ...yet they could appear as 'One Light'....there's a chorus of thousands* [*millions, billions?] of voices in unison, all chanting the 'WORD' in unison...yet they can sound as one voice.
I take exception to tautomer's comment.
I brought this subject up with my clairvoyant friend, Clarisse [and I figure tautomer probably doesn't believe in clairvoyance either, and this is probably were he'll depart [Were hell departs?... Or holed de parts?...sorry, I couldn't resist...but I digress]. Clarisse works with the assistance of 'Guides', as she calls them. I suspect they have been with me since an early age.
When I told her of this concept and asked her for a 'look see' to see if she could give me an affirmative. What I said about 'Light' catching up to itself and 'Lapping it like a lead car on a race track catching up to the car in last place and lapping it, She said that the 'Guides' were nodding in agreement although they said my description is overly simplistic. She said they showed here a visualization of what appeared to look like, "an old fashioned egg beater as it appears when it's 'whirring', but from above, looking down."
[and I thought of that and realized what they were describing would then appear to be like a 'figure eight '...and that is a symbol for 'infinity'.]

Yogis can transmutate matter, fly, walk on water...many wondrous things...but they can't describe what they do in 'scientific terms'. These 'siddhis' [powers] are well known among the adepts and are described by the great sage and yogi of the Sanatan Dharm, Pantanjali.
I myself have a couple of these ...that I know of...because I was able to do somethings. What, you might ask?

...I can only say it as I figure it...that is, 'bend light'. It may be because I am a chela of the "WORD", and that word is ONE with the LIGHT.
Can I do this per request? I don't know. I do know that I can do it when the need arises.
What good is such a siddha? You'd be amazed. It protected my well being when I was in dire need of such.
This is just an illusion...all of this Universe. Time is just an illusion, a phenomena of light in this illusory realm. ...all matter is composed of LIGHT and being as of such...it too is an illusion.
The most advanced computer game there is, that employs holograms, is but a less complex [lower vibration] version of our, so called, reality.
We are in about the most virtual reality there is...but it's still not 'Reality'.

[Prominent]

piercethevale, that's all interesting stuff, but just like your claims of illusions- you sound illusive yourself. Why would you want to rely on illusions?
Your reality doesn't sound like my reality. Mine has no illusions at all.

[piercethevale]

piercethevale, that's all interesting stuff, but just like your claims of illusions- you sound illusive yourself. Why would you want to rely on illusions?
Your reality doesn't sound like my reality. Mine has no illusions at all.

Oh, it's quite 'Real', as 'Real' is described, defined, and understood to be.
I feel pain, I still get ill once in awhile, [I did have to have an operation wich prolonged my life last March...and that ordeal isn't over yet. Could I have healed myself? Yes, I have no doubt about that...but do I know how to do it, and if so why didn't I attempt to? Because it is what the 'Creator' wanted me to endure. It had its' reason to be. Some great yogi said once in a time so long past, that he's been all but forgotten on this earth, but was written, in so many words, by Ram Das in His book, "Be Here Now", that which is.
" 'If ye had faith, ye could move mountains.', is quite true as a parable. But when you've advanced far enough on 'The Path' to acquire that much 'faith' you've also become so knowledgeable to know that, 'THAT' mountain is right were it belongs and must stay, because God put it there and wants it there...right where it is...and who are YOU, to go moving mountains to where God doesn't intend, or want, them to be?" :wink:

[Prominent]

If god wants the mountain there then why'd he give us the ability to move it? Not much forsight with that.
So it seems like that quote speaks of false truths.

[piercethevale]

If god wants the mountain there then why'd he give us the ability to move it? Not much forsight with that.
So it seems like that quote speaks of false truths.

It always was your ability to move it. It is yours.
Let me know if you're having any difficulty when you try it...and I'll help you out.:biggrin:

[retinoid]

piercethevale, that's all interesting stuff, but just like your claims of illusions- you sound illusive yourself. Why would you want to rely on illusions?
Your reality doesn't sound like my reality. Mine has no illusions at all.

Prominent, is a dream real when you are dreaming it?

[JUPITERASC]

Which is real during the dream - the dreamer or the dream... :smile:

[Prominent]

If by real you mean it is happening and present, then yes something exists.
When you say something is an illusion you are tricking yourself into disassociating the phenomena with the circumstances present that are occurring. That's your own fault and inability to connect with reality.

[JUPITERASC]

If by real you mean it is happening and present, then yes something exists. When you say something is an illusion you are tricking yourself into disassociating the phenomena with the circumstances present that are occurring. That's your own fault and inability to connect with reality.
When Prominent writes "something is an illusion" Prominent may well be "tricking Prominent into disassociating the phenomena with the circumstances present that are occurring" ... thus highlighting Prominent's own "inability to connect with 'reality'...."

which then is obviously - using Prominent's preferred terminology - Prominent's own 'fault'..."

In contrast I simply commented rhetorically...Which is real during the dream - the dreamer or the dream... :smile:

[Prominent]

I don't quite follow you..

[piercethevale]

If god wants the mountain there then why'd he give us the ability to move it? Not much forsight with that.
So it seems like that quote speaks of false truths.

It always was your ability to move it. It is yours.
Let me know if you're having any difficulty when you try it...and I'll help you out.:biggrin:
As you didn't 'take the bait' here, I'll help you out anyways.

Why do you have the ability but are unable to do it?

...again... "If ye have faith, you can..."
It's about learning 'Faith'.
Faith in yourself as well as God.
It could very well be that we are in a sort of kindergarten here...and that we are but babies to the Creator. Some very renowned sages/gurus have said that we are in fact; 'Gods in training'
Do I believe that?
I don't know that I do...but it does have a certain logic to it.

[Prominent]

I don't know what you're talking about.
Who said we're unable? You seem to be talking abstractly which is hard to follow. Just say what you mean without all the disguises if you want to explain something.

[Fifth House Sun]

all dreams are real. there is only one dimension.

for instance

your "pets" can many times see what you cannot

[retinoid]

Which is real during the dream - the dreamer or the dream... :smile:

In the Upanishads a king dreamt he was poor and when he awoke he was a king. he had this same dream many times and finally asked numerous learned people which was he, a pauper or a king, which was real, the dream or 'now'. Finally a beggar came to his court and said, 'wherever your SELF is, that is where you are real, for that is your only true nature'...

This is what illusion means.

[retinoid]

If by real you mean it is happening and present, then yes something exists.
When you say something is an illusion you are tricking yourself into disassociating the phenomena with the circumstances present that are occurring. That's your own fault and inability to connect with reality.

Aligning with what is without and impermanent and forgetting who you are is an inability to connect with TRUE reality...yes what is happening in life is 'real' as a dream is. And having a good dream (good life) is good... What makes you believe right now is any different? Because you have been taught there is a big difference between dream and 'reality'? Read the Upanishad quote.

[Prominent]

When you dream, you're still here now, but traveling without the weight of the world/body. How you travel is relative to who you are. You never get anywhere awake or asleep, or at least that's how it feels to me.

[retinoid]

When you dream, you're still here now, but traveling without the weight of the world/body. How you travel is relative to who you are. You never get anywhere awake or asleep, or at least that's how it feels to me.

You say that because you know when you go to 'sleep' here, you then dream. How would you believe if you knew that you existed somewhere else and this reality was just an emanation? Would this be 'akin' to a dream? Mind you dreams are rarely 'meaningless' and they are very real at the time of the dream (and sometimes after). You can feel really good or bad after dreams. Just as the king asked, which is real. The other man replied, wherever your SELF is...because your SELF is the truest reality. Everything else, is...well...not the truest. A lesser form of that.

[Prominent]

yea, I agree with that, but why are you saying I'm unable to connect to a true reality?

[retinoid]

yea, I agree with that, but why are you saying I'm unable to connect to a true reality?

I don't think I said you were unable to? You may be able to. I think you definitely can. I think your true reality calls you a lot.

[piercethevale]

"When you're in a dream, the time passes so slowly.
Open up your heart, go sleep on the moment you were born.
Open up your heart, go sleep on the moment Love was born."

[playing these 'back to back' is a MUST!]
It's a Beautiful Day - "Bulgaria"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ohwAjCI4VM

"Time Is" - It's a Beautiful Day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKHhpzFSKOg&feature=related