Are six retrogrades, umm, a bit much?

[meditativestatus]

My retrograde status is rather enormous:

Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are all retrograde in my chart! Whoa. (Perhaps I should mention that Neptune is actually "stationary" retrograde.)

What is the karmic significance of this, good and/or bad? I can take it, really. I know I'm a highly introverted, contemplative type with a strong spiritual bent. I also know I have a few problems...:rolleyes:

I have read the work of Schulman, and certainly can relate. He often seems to convey the impression (and I could be wrong) that the inner planets when retrograde are rife with dysfunction, but the generational planets, well...almost function in a superior way under the retrograde influence.

Any comments?

[Kerrie]

Good question, my partner has Mars, Saturn, Pluto and Jupiter Retrograde all in the 2nd house. What would that be?

[astrop86]

If I recall reading properly earlier, the outer planets (Jupiter through Pluto) are frequently retrograde, more often than not.

I would really only pay attention to your Mars and Jupiter, maybe Saturn.

[RayAustin]

@Kerrie

Retrograde is a debility (negative condition). Typically retrograde planets in the natal will take considerable more energy than normal to make good of their energies, or the energy could frequently go "in the wrong direction". This of course can be changed if things like mutual reception occur.

So for your partner, I would expect exceptional challenges in the financial area or values, or possessions. Mars and Saturn, are both not nice planets to be RX. If Saturn is conjunct Jupiter though, that would ease Saturn's placement. What sign does all this occur in, out of curiosity?

Ray:)

[meditativestatus]

Thanks, RayAustin, although that's a bit depressing to hear! I'd hate to think that Retrogrades only represent a debilitating influence on planetary energy, particularly since I have such a high number of them to deal with.

I know it is karmically challenging, indeed, as the planets are, in some sense, "disoriented." Nevertheless, the fact that retrogrades could be only negative in influence (even with the inner planets) seems an old and antiquated view. I hope there is some spiritual aspect and dimension that may allow a few unique perspectives, perhaps unaccessible to the retrograde-free...

I will also say this: I've seen at least a handful of charts of highly backward individuals, with zero retrogrades! This always brings me some comfort...:D

[RayAustin]

Nevertheless, the fact that retrogrades could be only negative in influence (even with the inner planets) seems an old and antiquated view.

Meditative,
Well, that's what retrograde is. It depends on how the individual makes use of the energy. Retrogrades are challenges. I don't believe in sugar-coating astrology. It is what it is. :) I have retrograde Jupiter, and know its effect personally. It depends: will the native go with the flow of this debilitating energy or try their hardest to put it in the right direction? Most people go with the flow of their charts.

At the same time, like I said, retrograde planets can also be dignified in other various ways where they aren't so bad. But the inner (personal) planets retrograde are especially debilitated. The outer planets not so much, as they aren't even as important in the first place.

Meditative,
I would also theory that since you have so many, that might be to a point an advantage in life because you've been working with the difficult energy since birth. So you might possibly adapt.

Ray:)

[Kerrie]

@Kerrie

Retrograde is a debility (negative condition). Typically retrograde planets in the natal will take considerable more energy than normal to make good of their energies, or the energy could frequently go "in the wrong direction". This of course can be changed if things like mutual reception occur.

So for your partner, I would expect exceptional challenges in the financial area or values, or possessions. Mars and Saturn, are both not nice planets to be RX. If Saturn is conjunct Jupiter though, that would ease Saturn's placement. What sign does all this occur in, out of curiosity?

Ray:)
He has Mars 18 Lib, Saturn 21 Lib, Pluto 26 Lib and Jupiter 10 Sco. Some background info, he came to Aus about 4 years ago and is from Africa, so the finanical area being hard early in life would sit with him, now he would like to turn it around.

Just about to read about mutual reception. It looks like it might take me a while to work out, hahaha. I will get back to you when I do.

[RayAustin]

He has Mars 18 Lib, Saturn 21 Lib, Pluto 26 Lib and Jupiter 10 Sco. Some background info, he came to Aus about 4 years ago and is from Africa, so the finanical area being hard early in life would sit with him, now he would like to turn it around.

Just about to read about mutual reception. It looks like it might take me a while to work out, hahaha. I will get back to you when I do.

Sounds like a Mars (Mars in detriment) and Saturn conjunction there, ouch. Sounds especially challenging. At least Saturn is somewhat nicer, being in Libra.
Alright, get back to me. :)

[Kerrie]

@ RayAustin,

Ok he has mutal reception happening with Sat in Lib and Ven in Cap. Saturn is I think also exhalted exact at 21 Lib, does it matter that Saturn is retrograde when exhalted? The Moon is also exhalted (although not by degree) and no planets in fall, but that Mars detriment.

How does that work? Does Saturn having all those friendlies, take away some of the dificulties of the retrograde? Or maybe does it make it easier for him? As you said especially the Mars/Saturn retro conjunction.

I was just thinking, what happens when an especially bad Mars (in detriment and retrograde) and a lightened Saturn retro (exhalted and in mutal reception) are conjunct. What way does the person turn. Do we need to consider Pluto retro (very slow planet) and Jupiter retro (further away in the conjunction) in all of this. Do the have a big effect?

Oh Im tired Im going to bed!

[RayAustin]

@ RayAustin,

Ok he has mutal reception happening with Sat in Lib and Ven in Cap. Saturn is I think also exhalted exact at 21 Lib, does it matter that Saturn is retrograde when exhalted?


Kerrie, :)

No, it shouldn't. The exaltation, and the mutual reception greatly nicens Saturn, he is also succeedent. If this is a daytime chart, the better! Saturn should be very constructive in his case, he should have a lot of potential at financial management, and being beneficially frugal. Mars on the other hand is destructive, and the Pluto suggests complications that he can't do anything about--like you said, growing up poor. Saturn in the second house can potentially give wealth (though his natives often grow up poor), but most likely later on in life, hard lessons even debt will most likely be learned first. I think the reinforcement of Venus, who also rules money, is another argument of better abilities at getting money.

If Venus has any aspect to Mars (which would most likely be a trine), she will nicen him up to a point. If it's a night time chart, Mars is the nicer, as well.


I was just thinking, what happens when an especially bad Mars (in detriment and retrograde) and a lightened Saturn retro (exhalted and in mutal reception) are conjunct. What way does the person turn. Do we need to consider Pluto retro (very slow planet) and Jupiter retro (further away in the conjunction) in all of this. Do the have a big effect?

Jupiter isn't involved in the conjunction. In scorpio, this suggests a lot of ambition towards accumulating wealth, maybe to a point obsessive. Pluto in the second especially in Capricorn, brings ambitious qualities and I think confirms Jupiter, but the retrograde may be that this energy goes 'in the wrong direction', or takes a lot of effort to make use of. Thankfully for him, Jupiter is in the dignity of term, so that strengthens Jupiter a bit.

Mars is peregrine and mischevious, I would think this shows destruction to belongings, as well. How he afflicts finances would be shown by what houses he rules, same for the other planets.

I would be interested to hear more about your partner and if any of this applies.

Ray:)

[Kerrie]

Hi RayAustin, I have attached his chart for you to see.

Its a daytime chart, Venus isnt making any aspect to Mars, only to Pluto and that is a square, and a large orb square to Saturn, just over 8 degrees, not showing as I like tight orbs. Oh Pluto is in Libra not in Cap as you mentioned.

You said;
"Saturn in the second house can potentially give wealth (though his natives often grow up poor), but most likely later on in life, hard lessons even debt will most likely be learned first."

Yes this is him, I know that he grew up in a family of 13 in Africa, he hasnt mentioned how it was, as he said I would get upset (Im a emotional Piscean that crys too much, lol), I assume it was very hard for him physically to leave his country - as its not easy to get permanent residency, but I think his drive to be wealthly got him here, he wants to earn money and return and grow businesses there. He has his Saturn Return coming up in a couple of years, so Im thinking his being wealthly will come after this.

I think he is a bit of a work-a-holic, a couple of weeks ago he stoped his 7 nights a week and 2 days of the weekend work down to 5 nights a week and 2 days on the weekend! So I would say that would be part of his obsession to money. Jupiter in Scorpio.

Not sure how I work out these...

You said; "How he afflicts finances would be shown by what houses he rules, same for the other planets."

He is quiet interested in politics and journalism, and is halfway through a communications course, I dont know what aspect this comes from. Although I do remember him saying the only way to be wealthy in his home country is to be a politician.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/imagehosting/thum_64724983a768ceffc.gif ('http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1036')

[meditativestatus]

Hey, I thought this thread was about me!!

Just kidding, guys. :38: Really!

[Kerrie]

Sorry Meditativestatus, maybe someone should move this thread? Here you are posting your first thread and you get someone taking over, I bet the Aries Sun and your Mars Leo dont like that, hahaha...

Sorry again. Really ;) .

[RayAustin]

Sorry Meditativestatus, maybe someone should move this thread? Here you are posting your first thread and you get someone taking over, I bet the Aries Sun and your Mars Leo dont like that, hahaha...

Sorry again. Really ;) .

I think it might be appropriate.
Anyway though, for some reason I am not able to access the picture you put up.

[Kerrie]

Anyway though, for some reason I am not able to access the picture you put up.It was set to private by mistake, I have now changed it.

[RayAustin]

Kerrie,

You said; "How he afflicts finances would be shown by what houses he rules, same for the other planets."

Yes, Mars rules the eighth house -- perhaps he gets bad loans, or gets too dependent on other people's money or accumulates debt problems; that's an example. Saturn looks promising as means of income.

He is quiet interested in politics and journalism, and is halfway through a communications course, I dont know what aspect this comes from.

I can see it quite easily. Look at the midheaven, which is career. Look at its ruler also and where it is positioned.

Your partner would be wise to harness Saturn's energies. There are a lot of indicators that if he wishes to make money, he will have to work hard for it.

[cassanra]

I think too you can look at the progressed chart and see if the planets go direct...this will help a bit. I have Neptune in the 7th retrograde (interecpted 12house ruler) and it progressed to direct in my mid thirties and theoretically I was given the opportunity to work through that energy of dependence on others ie I became a single mom:). Jupiter was also retrograde in the 8th (ruler of 9th) and went direct ...the implication of that negative energy to a certain extent

[Kerrie]

I can see it quite easily. Look at the midheaven, which is career. Look at its ruler also and where it is positioned.

Thanks, Gemini MC, Mercury located in the 6th, Mercury trine to Mars and Saturn, square to Jupiter. Thanks again, I shall research more.

[Kerrie]

I think too you can look at the progressed chart and see if the planets go direct...this will help a bit. I have Neptune in the 7th retrograde (interecpted 12house ruler) and it progressed to direct in my mid thirties and theoretically I was given the opportunity to work through that energy of dependence on others ie I became a single mom:). Jupiter was also retrograde in the 8th (ruler of 9th) and went direct ...the implication of that negative energy to a certain extent

Thanks I think I have already done this for my partner and no retrograde planets go direct until very late in life or not at all.

[Serendipity]

Personally I don't see retrogrades as negative. I think there's an evolutionary lesson to be learned on how to use the energy of the planet differently, more introspective. Not bad, just different.

[Spungie]

I would hate to think retrograde is dysfunctional. They are harder, perhaps, to work with. I like to see a retrograde planet as sucking in energy rather than radiating it. Retrograde lessons take place internally, and other people will often question your crazy ideas.
Also, If you picture the zodiac as the evolution from aries to pisces (aries = body + desire for nice stuff = taurus + desire for communication and thought = gemini etc). You can imagine a retrograde planets evolving completely in reverse. To other people this seems like de-evolution.
But it isnt.

I have a retrograde Jupiter, and I've always followed my own spirtitual path. I can very rarely feel something in my saggitarius heart unless its based on the spititual lessons IVE learned.
This is a gift, as my knowledge is pure, my beliefs are based on what I think is best for me. Even if people disagree.

[katydid]

Hey, I thought this thread was about me!!

Just kidding, guys. :38: Really!


Maybe this is an example of having so many retrogrades in one's chart--people
overlook you somehow. :confused:
Just kidding, but with a small note of seriousness. The few people I have known with so many retro's , were often very apologetic and unassuming, and very polite. Like a person walking the wrong way down a busy street, but smiling and apoligizing as they go. :o

Btw, my husband has Mercury R and he is a successful writer. I think that retrogrades put an emphasis upon the planet in the chart. But the person may go about things differently, and maybe swim upstream so to speak.