Will I move to my home country within next 2 weeks?

[EOsmond]

I have been deliberating on this for a while. I am in two minds - staying here in same place would be for job and finances, going back home would be for marriage. Both are important but without financial difficulties, I would have opted for marriage.

I have almost booked the ticket 2-3 times but hesitating to do so for some reason or other.

Late Ascendant :(

Too late to ask? Dunno why I keep getting these, I have not yet decided about it.

Chart ruler Sun is in 5H - Square from Moon - may just show the conflict in my mind and I favour relationships

Moon in 3H - deposited by Venus, in 7H (again my focus?) - in conjunct
Is it just showing I need to change to new place to get into marriage or that marriage won't happen even if I go home (there is a chance)?

Travel long distance would be 9H and staying here 4H (4 H - current home?)
Both ruled by Mars - it is exalted in 5H but a Square from Moon
Does that mean I would not move from here?

Worrying thing is Saturn in 2H.

Saturn rules 7H, relationships. For sure, I know if I choose to go ahead with relationships and go home I will be in financial trouble.

POF is in 4H - is 4H my current place or home country? I am confused.

Any help please

- Eliza

[RayAustin]

From what I see in the chart, Sun & Saturn do not aspect eachother, which if they did, would indicate a move. The moon also squares the ninth house of travel, and without reception, this is a no.

Like you said the ascendant is late. If you think you aren't, then that's most likely the answer.

Ray:)

[EOsmond]

I am not decided yet. My mind has been oscillating between finances and marriage - which is important now. Once I get married, career and earning takes back seat and I have a proposal of marriage on hand to decide about.

Hmmm... still, no answer.

[RayAustin]

Hmmm... still, no answer.
The answer is a no, I'd be surprised if it was a yes. No aspect between querent and questited or translation or collection = No. :)

[EOsmond]

From what I see in the chart, Sun & Saturn do not aspect eachother, which if they did, would indicate a move. The moon also squares the ninth house of travel, and without reception, this is a no.

Like you said the ascendant is late. If you think you aren't, then that's most likely the answer.

Ray:)

Thanks so much.

I wondered, as Mars rules both 4H and 9H, is n't it? And why do we consider Saturn here for move?

I am asking for my learning purpose. I will keep you posted however.

[RayAustin]

I am asking for my learning purpose. I will keep you posted however.

It is tradition to use the 7th house (4th from the 4th) to signify where the querent wishes to relocate to.

[EOsmond]

Oh, is it? Thanks so much. I didn't know that :)

[archergirl]

Of course, if we just simply answer the question you have asked, which is 'Will I move in the next two weeks', the answer is a simple 'no'.

The way you have stated your question is a 'Will I', not a 'Should I', in which case there is no need to look at the 7th as the place of relocation. The 4th house, in this case, is 'home country'. Your home country is not a foreign country...it is your home country. The Moon squares Mars from the 2nd: money will keep you from moving home.

Saturn retrograde in your 2nd house emphasizes financial pressures.

AG:)

[RayAustin]

The way you have stated your question is a 'Will I', not a 'Should I', in which case there is no need to look at the 7th as the place of relocation. ... The 4th house, in this case, is 'home country'. Your home country is not a foreign country...

I don't see how "will I" or "should I" makes a different in the least, since in either way, the 7th still is the place of relocation. Nor why you would use the 4H, since it's the current home. If they are somewhere else asking the Q, then obviously the 'home country' is foreign to where they're at, not vice versa, doesn't make sense to make a chart as if you were in another place of location.

R.

[archergirl]

I have moved overseas and back six times. I have experiential evidence that 'home' is where you consider home, whether it is where you are living at the moment or not, whether it is a foreign country or not.

'Will I' and 'Should I' make a huge difference to the chart; they are hugely different questions, if one stops to think about it. 'Will I' is a determinant question, and requires a simple 'yes' or 'no'; if there is a 'yes' then a timing will usually be found. 'Should I' involves a choice between A and B, and one has to figure out which, out of A or B, is the better bet. In Christian Astrology, Lilly has both types of questions, "Will I obtain the house" and "Whether better to remove from one place to another", and treats each chart very differently. This is why I am always cautioning people to ask the question they want answered.

Edit: Sorry, I'm trying to cook for a dinner party at the same time as do astrology. :D

In horary, I've found that one can't be too fixed on what houses 'mean', because what they mean depends on the querent. So in my case, every time I lived in the United States and asked about moving back to England, England, even though it's a 'foreign' country to me, came up as the 4th house, because I consider England 'home'. See what I mean?

In this question, there is not only a 'Will' as opposed to a 'Should'; there is also the statement of moving 'home'; so 'home' in this case will get the 4th, because that's what she's asking about. Not only that, but that's where the Moon is going.:)


AG:)

[RayAustin]

Well, I disagree, but whatever.
Ray.:)

[archergirl]

You can disagree if you like. I disagree with using modern planets as significators, but that doesn't stop people from trying it.;)

Horary is quite logical.

If we look at the 'evidence' in this chart, the answer is simple. The querent asked, 'WILL I' move to my home country within the next two weeks?'.

This is a WILL question AND she includes a time frame. This is not a 'should I' question: it has a finite place (home) and a finite time (2 weeks).

The Moon shows timing, usually. The planet she applies to shows the 'what' or in this case, the 'where'. Where is the Moon headed? Mars. What does Mars rule? The 4th house. What is the 4th house? Home. What is the Moon doing? Applying by square. This is a 'no'. Since the Moon is the transmitter of influences, she is transmitting light to Mars through a difficult aspect. Where is the Moon? In the house of money. The querent is having a tough time, financially, which is what brought the question on in the first place, it appears. Saturn Rx in the 2nd reinforces this. Since the Moon also generally shows timing, the applying square shows us that the querent will not be going 'home' within the two week time frame she has given.

There is a tendency to make more of a question than actually exists. But a very experienced horary astrologer taught me that we should just stick to the question that is being asked, rather than complicating it by re-interpreting the question or putting our own 'spin' on it. Horary charts are simple and elegant. In a good chart, such as this one, it will show exactly what the question AND answer are.

AG:)

[RayAustin]

Regardless, my same answer is no, I don't see the silliness of debating Will I or Should I, when you would analyze the chart in the same manner--and get the same conclusion, no less.
Ray :)

[tikana]

i have to agree with AG on this .. answer is no..

moon is a timer usually!

[EOsmond]

Thanks so much for all those wonderful responses.

I meant 'Will I', as I have been thinking about 'Should I or Should I not' for too long (pros and cons) and never thought about asking Horary to help me on it. I didn't know I could ask that :)

If it is a No in any case, let me see. I will have to apply for an extension to stay here.

As for finances, it just occurred to me I am in trouble either way - I stay here or not. Staying here and getting employment here will help me to clear them faster than I could do in next 5 years in my home country.

Which one do I consider as home? As a place I used to consider this as a temporary home and was pining to go 'home'. But strangely, just when I asked the question I had a thought, if I go back into my home country and mother's place, it is not my home any more. So I am left with no home :( Going back is only for getting married to a guy proposed to me, he refuses to join me here right now.

[tikana]

hi

this is simple

anytime you just move even for a week is 7th house... house of removal.. your present stay place is 1st.. your actual home is 4th

does this help?

T

[archergirl]

I don't see the silliness of debating Will I or Should I, when you would analyze the chart in the same manner--and get the same conclusion, no less.

It is far from silly. When you have a few more charts under your belt, you will see why. An examination of the definitions of 'will' and 'should' in any dictionary will support you.;)

But in any case, there are many ways to arrive at the same answer. I prefer the simplest route (Rule Number Two: Keep it Simple), as it spares a) work and b) room for error. In this chart, note that 'home' (4th house) and 'long distance' (9th house) have the same significator. That is a fairly obvious sign of what the querent is thinking: a long distance journey to the place she had considered 'home'. This signification came up time and time again in my own charts.

Eliza, As a place I used to consider this as a temporary home and was pining to go 'home'. But strangely, just when I asked the question I had a thought, if I go back into my home country and mother's place, it is not my home any more. This doesn't matter; your question is not about a physical residence, but a metaphorical one, which is why there is no reason to look at relocation significators. The 4th house describes the place of our roots. Robert Frost said, "Home is the place where/When you have to go there/They have to take you in."

AG:)

[RayAustin]

This doesn't matter; your question is not about a physical residence, but a metaphorical one,


EOsmond, that's 'her' opinion, not the rules; that above is pretty debatable.
Ray :)

[archergirl]

Ray,

I will gently remind you that your reading is as much about your opinion as my reading is about mine, and that you are a student, as am I. This is a learning site, so it makes sense that less-skilled members have the option of learning about the different ways to read a chart. The most important part of any horary chart is the question, which is why Lilly talks about the querent's desire for a question to be answered in his Aphorisms. I have been doing horary for quite a long time and several hundreds of charts, and have been very fortunate to have some excellent horary teachers; so when I argue one point or another, I do so less from some rigid perspective on 'right or wrong in a book I've read' and more from a place where I know things work, k?

That doesn't mean there aren't other means of finding the answer, but it's good for beginners to understand the bones of horary before trying on the muscle. I'm not arguing to make you look 'wrong'; I'm simply stating that there are ways and means of obtaining answers.
Cheers,
AG:)

[RayAustin]

Nevertheless, if someone doesn't wish to argue, you don't have to keep "pushing the button" as it were. :) I appreciate if we just keep it to horary, the chart, and leave it at that; you shouldn't need references to someone's experience to prove a point. ;)

Ray.

[archergirl]

It was neither my intention to argue with you nor push the button. If you read my first post in reply to Eliza, there was nothing inflammatory said at all; I was simply stating my opinion. Any debate after that was because you disagreed with it.:)

And experience is a part of it. I don't say this as a way of 'lording it over you' or bigging myself up...I still have to go and ask some fairly stupid questions of my own teachers; there are places I still get stuck. But the point is, they have more experience than me, so I trust their experience. When they have shown me how something works, and why, I trust it. I have more experience than many students on here, so just ask that that experience be trusted as well. Yes?

AG:)

[RayAustin]

Ok, well now that that's done, how about some wine and crackers for everyone on the thread for doing such a good job?

Ray :D

[EOsmond]

Eliza, This doesn't matter; your question is not about a physical residence, but a metaphorical one, which is why there is no reason to look at relocation significators. The 4th house describes the place of our roots. Robert Frost said, "Home is the place where/When you have to go there/They have to take you in."

AG:)

Thanks for clarifying. Interesting debate, I sometimes wonder so many different interpretations are possible with Horary (I said that because I see each astrologer interpreting same chart in different ways and each giving plausible reasons), does it make easier to ask face to face.

[archergirl]

Debating is very healthy, if sometimes irritating.:D Arriving at the same answer by different methods is quite common in horary. That's what makes it so interesting.

AG:)

[tikana]

okay guys
here is why i am getting a NO
Sun rules the querent and the present status quo, which is living where the querent is living..
Saturn rules the desireable relocation
since 7th house rules - removals
Now, we need to have an aspect between 1st house ruler or the moon to Saturn
Sun is separating from Saturn meaning that either person missed a chance of moving or just missed the boat entirely.
let's look at moon
moon does not aspect saturn at all but it is sextiling Mars which rules 4th house and 9th
so it's quite possible that querent may go on a trip to home country ... last aspect of the moon is square to sun.. 11th house of dreams an dhopes Mercury does not connect with Sun either
I just dont see a single YES here..
so i back AG wholeheartly here
here is another one... usually if there is a change we should not see fixed signs UNLESS the change has begun or
cheers to all

PS AG... YES.. Will or Should I" questions will yield the same answers but what i have seen that you get more emphasis on "should I" with reception... not always but i just noticed that..
T

[RayAustin]

moon does not aspect saturn at all but it is sextiling Mars which rules 4th house and 9th
so it's quite possible that querent may go on a trip to home country ...

Actually Tik, moon is squaring Mars with bad reception, which is even more of a no.

Ray:)

[tikana]

Thanks Ray for correction

Yeah you are right.

[EOsmond]

Such an emphatic NO... Adding to my immediate expenses, though I have a better chance of financial stability if I am working here.

Would you also please check if I will get a job in next one month?

For a permanent job, I do not have a permit, applying now. If I do not get at least Part time, I will be in trouble. I am speaking to one of my faculty, who said he will help me get some temp work but not able to get hold of him from a week or so. Hoping it works.

May be MC in early degrees suggests too early to ask - it will take 3 weeks for permit.

But chart ruler is Sun - weak in Capricorn in 6H (house of work or illness?)
Ruler is Saturn - in 2H trining Sun (separating)

10H is ruled by Venus - it is exalted in Pisces but Conj Uranus in 8H - looks bad :(
Moon is in Scorpio in 4H (exalted by house?) - applying trine to Venus (can I take it as positive?) but no aspect to Sun

Thanks so much to all. It was such a good learning experience.

[EOsmond]

I just checked POF is conj IC, forgot to select it in pre chart. I don't have a clue but I saw job questions using PoF too.