Saturn in 5th

[Shining Ray]

This was interesting to read, as I often wonder whether challenges to the 5th house relate to difficulties with children or creativity stemming from a past life. Maybe there are guilty feelings lingering over and the individual has to work through their own inner blocks. Although most of the reading is going to be relevant as a current expression of energy anyway.

Creativity and self-expression do not come easily to you.
You find romantic encounters unsatisfying. Children or the ability to procreate can be a source of considerable disappointment.
Difficult childbirth, guilt from feeling responsible for a child's distress, or frustrations in a creative endeavor in that prior life could be the root cause of your current blockage.
On the positive side, you are able to apply discipline in your current life to your creative endeavors. On the negative side, you may still avoid any creative expression, out of fear of disapproval or rejection.
When you learn the reason for your blocks in this lifetime, you can open up your creative energies and use the talents which have been brought forth from your previous life.

[Polo]

Despite all the attacks on Saturn, Saturn here has its blessings. Hard work and creativity can produce the best work of all.

[waybread]

Shining Ray, the kinds of points you raised about Saturn in the 5th are very common in "cookbook" astrology manuals, but they seem to totally ignore the aspects. I think that aspects to Saturn would be crucial. What if Saturn in the 5th makes all kinds of cool sextiles and trines? Then wouldn't you anticipate that the person would experience Saturn's beneficial side? Maybe a love affair with an older person. Creativity expressed through a traditional medium, or perhaps retrospectively involved in older kinds of arts. Not frittering away one's income through irresponsible gambling. Or perhaps a love of outdoor recreation involving mountaineering and rock-climbing.

A lot of astrology is written about "planets in signs" and "planets in houses". I think "planets in aspect" are even more important.

[Shining Ray]

I haven't attacked Saturn this was another reading, mine would be a bit longer and OTT. Sorry for raising common points but it is up to the individual to to try and interpret their individual Saturn. To be honest Saturn is still about painful lessons to be learned even if nicely trined. With a more challenged Saturn than it might feel more difficult because there are other conflicts reaching from the 5th house to other aspects and points in the chart creating tension. I think "cookbook" astrology is being badly criticised here, to me reading it often leads to more questions and self examination which is never a bad thing in "my book".

If I read a cookbook interpretation of Sun in 7th

This placement will centre on how you deal with other people and their responses to your ego expression, so what tends to happen is that you live out your will and life through others, and one other in particular. You may have the ability to function well in counselling, public relations or other people orientated activity. Be aware of not losing yourself in the identity of another.

Now I will read this regular interpretation of the Sun and I will question what this means, first I will think well yes I would like to work with people maybe through helping them as I feel compassionate to people but I am a shy person who doesn't have a lot of self confidence. I will look at my chart and see that Saturn is opposing my Sun in 7th and there will be blocks and challenges and some difficulty before I achieve my Sun's purpose in Sun in Pisces 7th. I will have to build my self confidence the hard way. Without the "cookbook" description first how can you synthesize all the parts.

What you have to understand is that some people are only still at the beginning level of interpretation, and the one's who are deeper into astrology know naturally how to work in their own aspects. Even on other threads where I have posted basic interpretation of planets in houses or aspects and at the beginning of my text I had written please understand that these are basic interpretations not individualised to the natal chart etc. and some people ignored this and still posted to tell me about aspects like I was one of the kindergarten astrologers *laughs*. I do understand about aspects I have 80 astrology books at home I might have read something on them. Cookbook astrology has to ignore all the aspects because try and write a book about every possible aspect on a natal planet in sign and house,and also there also lots of other parts in the natal chart to consider. I don't care what anyone says these boards need "cookbook" astrology as a building block to interpret from.

No more cookbooks then, we are supposed to be a "learning forum"but the first stepping stone to synthesizing is cookbooks whether people hate them or not you add in each step before the full picture emerges of how the aspects work in the chart. If this is now a no "cookbook" forum I fear there will be nothing on the boards which can start off astrological learning and conversations that's all I post these threads for I am past basic to be honest but for other people they often post their charts or start discussing how Saturn is working for them which in the end leads to more understanding, I don't understand the motives of this forum lately, maybe my way of doing things no longer fit sin with this forum but I have held the stupid belief that we all have the same goal. To get things moving on a forum you have to post basics and the individuals will explain how their own Saturn in 5th works for them through aspects etc. Conversations are always being disrupted or lose their flow, learning in my opinion is being very badly stifled.

No more interpretations for beginners from me.

[waybread]

Shining Ray, I apologize if my comments came across as critical of you. I surely didn't intend them that way. I thought that members were being asked to give their opinions of some propositions that you appeared to glean from a website or published source. If I got this wrong, I am sorry.

You know a whole lot of astrology, BTW, so I wouldn't classify you as a beginner!

I learned a lot from "cookbooks"--my small astrology home library is loaded with them. Which one did you use for your delineations of Saturn in the 5th? My favourite cookbook on aspects is Robert Hand, Planets in Youth. Good for people of all ages.

I also have Saturn (as well as Pluto) opposite sun--in this case, my sun is in the 5th. I would describe this configuration as a life-long identity crisis; but one that can be addressed by learning to "own" the qualities of these planets; and seeing the opposition as indicating a need for balance.

Love your highway photo! With best wishes for your journey, W.

[Shining Ray]

No need to apologize I got it wrong I thought you were being critical because I posted a basic Saturn interpretation. :)

Sorry :39:

[waybread]

Hey, no problem! W.

[Kingsley]

Oh well, the 5th house is the "diplomatic" house. I always found that Saturn in the 5th was associated to "second childhoods". You know, where one has their childhood later in life.

5th house Fun and Saturn could be therapeutic massage and the joys of being an authority.

kingsley

[aquarius7000]

Hi Ray,

Some good points and an interesting topic there.

I believe that there is a Karmic side to Saturn, which is why I feel two things in particular related to this planet (**affecting the house it sits in, firstly, and then the aspects it makes): lessons are hard to learn, but bring about stability and long-lastingness after they have been learned; secondly, achievements or fulfilments happen later in life usually**, after the native has worked for them, sometimes giving the feeling that these are some unfinished tasks from one's previous incarnation. I might also add that, as with karmic matters usually, there is also a certain heaviness and unease attached to Saturn.

The above being some astrological generalisations, you can apply these to the fifth house - the focus of this thread - to deduce to a certain extent what this might mean in relation to the native's self-expression, having children, creative pleaures, etc.

:)aquarius7000

[Kingsley]

why would your prog 5th house and Saturn be trouble?

k

[Kingsley]

Well, I hope you think of some Saturn kind of fun to have JJ.

If I was saturn Jenna, and it was me that was telling you not to have any fun would you listen to me?

Seeing as though I am feeling like Saturn this second, perhaps Saturn would say, "All work and no play makes Jenna......" or "You must have some fun Jenna, go out now and find a way to have some fun or else"

"even if you cannot have a fully blown - rigamortisly good fun time Jenna will you at least have fun doing what you are doing?" Can there be fun in having no fun. You dont do "fun" - Jenna?

[Kingsley]

Here is a Saturnian reply to your statement JJ.

"Rubbish"

If thats what you wish to believe, there doesnt sound like much hope for you I am afraid.

Good luck with it - all

k

[Spungie]

Hi shiningray,
I've noticed you've made a thread about saturn in 5th and jupiter in the 11th.
Are they in opposition?

My astrological weakness is house placements at the moment.
(I dont like numbers. A few months ago I realized the 12 houses are kinda like the 12 signs of the zodiac, and have since worked from there

I also have saturn 5th jupiter 11th. I was wandering how a 5th house saturn (and opposite jupiter if it is) affected you in early adult life(or now I dont know how old you are).
I have difficulties accepting saturn sometimes.
I tend to forget my troubles a little too good.
As happy as I am I can sometimes cause other people problems by being me. I also belive I could have alot more to offer society.
I have chiron conjunct jupiter wich changes things i guess.
What difficulties did saturn 5th create for you?
I need to separate two of my lifes issues wich I belive both involve saturn(no surprise).
Sorry to be asking all the questions on your thread :)

[kshantaram]

regards,

1994, transit saturn in the 5th was a difficult year for me causing my first job break for five months delaying further by being retrograde - saturn was opposite natal jupiter/pluto while in trine with transit jupiter/rahu in the ascendant.

loss of job was compensated by securing a higher position later as head of department - could be saturn's gift from the 5th/own house representing ministerial positions.

in south india saturn transit 5th is feared considered generally negative. i had both the experiences.

hope this sharing helps.


kshantaram

[Shining Ray]

Hi shiningray,
I've noticed you've made a thread about saturn in 5th and jupiter in the 11th.
Are they in opposition?

My astrological weakness is house placements at the moment.
(I dont like numbers. A few months ago I realized the 12 houses are kinda like the 12 signs of the zodiac, and have since worked from there

I also have saturn 5th jupiter 11th. I was wandering how a 5th house saturn (and opposite jupiter if it is) affected you in early adult life(or now I dont know how old you are).
I have difficulties accepting saturn sometimes.
I tend to forget my troubles a little too good.
As happy as I am I can sometimes cause other people problems by being me. I also belive I could have alot more to offer society.
I have chiron conjunct jupiter wich changes things i guess.
What difficulties did saturn 5th create for you?
I need to separate two of my lifes issues wich I belive both involve saturn(no surprise).
Sorry to be asking all the questions on your thread :)

Hi Spungie,

Sorry I missed your post, I am not always a regular member as I once was, so apologies for no response. It's kind of embarrassing reading my post above, I am a moody cow (blame the Pisces moods). I have Saturn in 1st Virgo rising opposition Sun, it has some similar experience to Saturn in 5th. My Jupiter in Leo 11th opposes Venus in Capricorn 5th and trines Moon/Mercury (out of sign loses some strength). Jupiter is strong in my chart it disposits 3 of my Pisces planets in 7th (Sun, Moon, Mercury). I do have the same sense of optimistic spirit especially for contributing to society, I do feel I have a sense of purpose and meaning in life by offering something back to the world, Jupiter and Saturn are the middle planets in astrology they act as the bridge to society, Jupiter is the first of the social planets and enlarges our view, connecting us to something greater than ourselves, this can be through a spiritual calling or philosophical path. With Jupiter we have more faith that we can accomplish what we want. If your more Jupiterian you will relate to his worldview, and will always see opportunities which can help you grow and expand mentally. Saturn the second of the "social planets" represents the border of the ego, he defends and protects reality before the ego can experience the outer realms and travel into new consciousness, this happened when Uranus was discovered, he broke through material reality, structure and form, authority and limitations quite violently if we think about the bloody revolution which also occurred under his discovery, we can see he is a force to be reckoned with, but he did move us and shake us forward, and we are now space travellers no longer confined to look up at the sky we can be in the sky and rocket ourselves to the Moon. Computers help us to live in a much more technological world, it's hard to believe how far we have advanced, but to me I feel we are still limited. Saturn will often reminisce about the golden age when things were much simpler back then, but Uranus has brought progression for mankind. Saturn symbolises our responsibility to society, Saturn receives no "benefits" or "state handouts", he works for everything he has, self-sufficiency is the key to his realm, you take responsibility for your own life and you achieve an easier time with Saturn, he will teach you lessons the hard way. To me it often feels as if father Christmas has visited me in the 11th house (Jupiter) and sometimes he spoils me too much, but I feel very deserving of my benefits here, and optimistic that there will be more. However, in Saturn's house (1st) there are no presents under the Christmas tree, and I have to make make own way here. But the rewards of doing it all alone is fantastic and second to none, it is what real achievement is all about. It's about creating balance with these two planets, what I have learned is that whatever I gain through Jupiter I try not to take for granted any more. With Saturn don't become too attached to your fears, anxieties, greed, or material gain, mostly earthly limitations. If you have ever explored the tarot cards you will see that in the devils card (Saturn) the two people chained are not actually bound, they can free themselves.

This site (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/basics/devil.shtml)explains the meaning of the Devil Card:

The Fool does so, and realizes that the chained collars the men and women wear are wide enough for them to easily slip off over their heads. "They can be free if they wish to be," the Goat-god says, "Though you are right. I am the god of your strongest desires. But you see here only those who have allowed their base, bestial desires to control them." At this the Goat-god gestures upward, toward the peak of the mountain. "You do not see those who have allowed their impulses and aspirations to take them up to the top of that mountain. Inhibitions can enslave as easily as excesses. They can keep you from following your passion to the highest heights." The Fool realizes the truth in this, and that he has mistaken the Goat-god. Here he understands now that it is not a creature of evil, but of great power, the lowest and the highest, both of beast and god. Like all power it is frightening, and dangerous...but it is also the key to freedom and transcendence if understood and well used.

I find the 12 houses are not so different from the 12 signs, planets in the 12th can just be as Piscean as planets placed in Pisces. Obviously The main difference is the houses are the areas of life.

I think once you find your niche in life you can offer something to society, through whatever skills you possess, I might be talking Virgoan now, but Saturn as a planet is very centered on contributing to the world, finding his role in life; we are always seeking a sense of accomplishment in the material world with our placement of Saturn, it's the planet of time age and experience. Sometimes we feel success/achievement doesn't come soon enough and all we seem to be faced with is more hard work and delays, but Saturn gets there in the end through hard persistence.

I might blog about Saturn in 5th after I have finished my Aquarius post which is a marathon in itself, I don't take shortcuts :D . I am trying to work out if that's a Saturnian gift or a cross to bear lol. People worry about the "malefic" planet being in the 5th house or even the 7th house (another area people get anxious about when Saturn falls there, believing it limits relationships etc.) I will tackle this at one time and maybe contribute a more lengthy and rounded view to this topic. I have to gather examples first and let a subject settle in my mind before the creative juices flow. I need to get into my thinking zone lol.

It's weird when I am writing sometimes I zone out and go elsewhere, and a whole page is written, I laugh sometimes reading it back as I don't know where it has come from, I think Neptune on my Moon/Mercury conjunction in Pisces channels lots of images down and Uranus in 3rd aspecting the same conjunction also brings a stream of ideas down, I have the job of sifting and ordering it all. The Outer planets work this way, I think a subject needs to be done on people who have this connection to outer planets. Some information is good and other ideas, visions, images just don't make sense. I might blog on this at a later date, but I don't want to overfill my diary now lol. On a serious note it can be frightening to be overloaded mentally, some people can't comprehend it, unless Mercury for example is connected to an outer planet.

I am off topic again (slaps wrist)

Back to Saturn - A sense of humour is needed at times, especially for Saturnians or darkness beckons all too often. This can also be very creative. I find all aspects of life can bear fruit even Saturn.

I will ask the Universe to channel information on Saturn in 5th, I could just read an astrology book, but that's too easy :p . Lecture finished for today blah, blah, blah my two men (partner & little boy) are out watching football, so you got one of my loooong posts.

http://rs6.loc.gov/pnp/agc/7a25000/7a25000/7a25097r.jpg

[Spungie]

Wow, thanks for all the input.

I've been away a while myself since my computer blue screened.
Sorry about taking so long to reply.

Around the time I asked this question I'd been meditating on weather or not I'm relying on my strengths too much and not devoping myself as much as I could. I often call upon (at least one) luxury in order to feel positive.
I find it aids meditation. I belive this is due to the opposition and jupiter being in cancer.
I gingerly asked saturn for guidance.
And he came with a mighty sword (pluto tansiting my 5th house stellium) And took all my money and freinds and crashed my computer.
I'm now living a spartan life (minus the paedopelia) and I'm learning how to be happy without luxuries.
As you suggest the key is probably balance, when, and if I get back on my feet I should probably be a bit more responsible.
If I follow saturns calling at least sometimes, there should be some benefit. If not for me then for others, particularly those I love (5th house).
I have long percived saturn to be bad, I am instincively afraid of him.
But saturn is my soul dispositor! (bar pluto for mars+pluto cj 4th)
I am also aware saturn can be karmic, this explains why it is why I almost feel guilty for not being greater than I am. Its not like I harm other people, But I can always do more If I am stronger.

I'm glad you say satan/saturn is only bad for those who are fooled by him.
I certainly know what you mean there, and he wont fool me.
As you say, saturn has much to give, if you work hard.
Without him I have no roots, and I will find it difficult to give back to the earth.

Its time I pulled my socks up, maybe next time we meet I shall have saturn saddled and reined.
Thanks for the many words, shows you like to help and you like to type.
Me too!
I'm just a bit dyslexic.