View Full Version : Anorexia...Depression...suicide...
11-23-2008, 12:20 AM
I am suffering from an atypical eating disorder. I display all signs of anorexia aside from irregular menses, and all signs of bulimia aside from binge eating (I eat very little, and thus throw up very little - I throw up virtually anything over 100 calories...and am a vegan...so I am very sickly, indeed).
I have also decided that my time is here is about to become short-lived, as I am 19 years old and I have plans for suicide in the near future . This should occur once I have finished getting my affairs in order. To make a long story short, I don't belong on a planet where one has to kill others in order to sustain oneself. I was ardently fascinated by esotericism, mysticism and astral voyage prior to my depression. I have attempted to use meditation and chakra development to cure my ailing faith in this world, but I don't want to be deceived any longer. I know now that nothing can convince me of beauty here anymore, and I want to go somewhere more to my tastes, where my empathy for others doesn't drive me to the brink of insanity each and every time I step out the door.
I wish to know, before I part, if my birth chart displays signs of my impending suicide, as well as my long-term eating disorder? I was struck (I can literally remember the wave that hit me) with derealization when I was about 10 years old, and have been living in a dream ever since. Everything is disturbingly surreal to me, and when it isn't, everything is disturbingly cruel. Is there any signs of this sort of disappointment in my chart? I am somewhat familiar with in depth astrology, but not to this degree.
I was born July 9, 1989 at 12:25 PM in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada.
Thank you for your time.
11-23-2008, 01:47 AM
If you really are having suicidal thoughts and intentions I suggest you seek counselling as soon as possible. Asking people to look at your chart to see *if you will* take your own life is a bit unethical, don't you think? And will you make your *decision* on the basis of the chart interpretations??
You're *putting a lot onto* the astrologers.You need to sort out your problems with a trained professional.
I hope you do so.
Love and Light.
11-23-2008, 03:06 AM
I'm sorry that my post came off in the that way. I have sought out the aid of counselors before, but have made no progress in clearing the depression, mine is the sort that probably can't be cleared (unless everyone starts fuelling themselves on air alone). I do not intend to make my decision on the basis of what the astrologer's say; I simply am curious about predisposition to suicide in a natal chart.
11-23-2008, 08:08 AM
Firstly, I hope that Astrology will be a good means for you to understand *yourself*, and a help to put your mind to something more constructive. Can you, therefore, begin by posting your chart (perhaps natal with transits), and give us an astrological lead through at least a basic interpretation of it from your side? That said, I would also like to add, if I may, that medical counselling, or astrological insights will help little unless the patient/native does not actively and consistently do something to alter the current state of things, which you seem to have already started with - so, whilst being realistic, look into the future on a more Jupiterian (optimistic) note:)!
11-23-2008, 08:48 AM
You might want to take a look into Chiron and what this planetoid has to offer in your chart.
11-23-2008, 09:14 AM
You were born like me, in the late 80's, early 90's. We are members of Generation Y. What makes this decade special is the Capricorn stellium. It consists of a Uranus-Neptune conjunction and likely one other planet/asteroid. For me, it was the True Node. If you noticed, our Capricorns are being dominated by Outer Planets. So it's fitting that we will have a Pluto into Capricorn transit. I'll upload your chart for you and edit with thoughts. But for now, with Pluto into Cappi, you're going to experience a whole lot of stuff. We all will really, regardless of generation. Or rather, all generations will be affected. This is time for us humans to come together regardless of influences and be humans.
It must be first asked if you really are a male. And if I picked the right city XD.
I think this is rare. It might or might not be. But not only are you a Cancer Sun-Sign but a Cancer Midheaven as well. The Midheaven rules career, especially with the sun inside the MH makes me think you'll have a career in hospitalization and healing. This stunning aspect shows alot without having to say "square, opposition" stuff like that. You were clearly born to offer a different vision, a healing per say.
Remember when I said that we had a Neptune-Uranus conjunction joining at least one other planet. In your chart, the said planet is Saturn. Given aspects, it can be a good thing or a bad thing. As Saturn rules structure and control. What we learn in life and how we incorperate it into our present-day scenario.
You have a tightly opposed Capricorn though, and combined with Uranus(Change, explosion) and Neptune(High dreams, idealization). It shows that you have high expectations for this world, and they haven't lived up to it. Quite frankly, the world hasn't lived up to mine either. But as a Libra ASC. None is more devastated then yourself. I offer my condolences.
Can I ask about your mother? I know how touchy a parent's subject can be given my own experience. But you seem to have a tightly activated Moon(Mother) in the 12th house. The oppositions exist between that Uranus-Neptune conjunction+ the moon+ Mercury. I wonder if your mom wasn't very supportive of your thoughts. Or something like that.
Chiron is the wounded warrior. Much like Saturn. He doesn't restrict. But rather he teaches. He shows one the flaws that exist within one's self and others and how to move beyond them. He is in strength in Cancer, he's conjunct that mercury though that even on it's own brings about pressure to your Cappi stellium.
Sun Trine Pluto. Pluto gets too much credit as a planet of power-play. Seriously, a well aspected Saturn-Mars or even a conjunction of those two planets play as much of a "go get em" role as Pluto does. Sun Trine Pluto shows your open to numerous revolutions and are open to many changes. Including the acceptance of the other world. Or the need to visit it. And considering the sextiles that exist between Pluto, Mercury and Neptune. I'd say I'd hit it right on the money.
As I said, Pluto will hit that Capricorn of yours. And with your natal aspects and positions. You will ponder that venture to the other world that you've seeked so. But I really do not believe you will end up making that choice. It is the choice of comfort and what you are thinking off. But I believe that this is the start of a path for you. To mature into a great teacher. Indeed, activate that Cancer Sun of yours and motivate yourself to teach. Teach this upcoming generation what we have failed to recognize.
Not only as a great teacher. But you are bound to be a great parent. Use the strengths of your highly and nicely aspected Cancer to move beyond the pains of your past and into a bright future of happiness.
11-23-2008, 09:37 AM
I'm not sure whether suicidal predisposition could be displayed in a natal chart or not as I'm not too deep into astrology. However I can relate because I was depressed, suicidal and have minor anorexia when I was 13 to 16 years old. I had epilepsy that froze my arms and fingers once at 14 when I was having a fierce argument with someone which might have led to chemicals imbalance in my brain afterwards. My depression and wounds in there are still there, but I feel that suicide is an option of one of many others.
Honestly, I notice some similarities between your chart and mine. It might set a little example for people who want to study charts of two persons who had similar sufferings.
Hope you'll overcome your dark night soon.
(Attachment is my natal chart..)
11-23-2008, 10:01 AM
Astrology is a great tool for self awareness, I would suggest looking at how you can cope with being such a sensitive empathetic person. I looked at your chart to see what signs your planets were for your emotional feeling level as this seems to be the most pressing problem at the moment with you feeling everything so acutely. Your Moon (which represents your emotions) is at a t,square with 6 squares on the Asc this alone makes you highly emotional and oversensitive to people. You want complete protection from the harsh reality of the outside world there is a longing to return to safety (Moon in 12th). With Venus/Mars Leo square Pluto there are some powerful feelings of anger within you and mistrust coming from the 11th house (society) to the 2nd house of personal values. Please don't turn this rage in upon yourself and become self destructive.
Sun/Mercury/Chiron all opposed Neptune in your chart this also heightens your feelings for everybody especially in Cancer a sign known to hold on to negative emotions and be deeply hurt by them. I would personally say you were quite gifted emotionally and maybe if you found an outlet for all this energy in your chart you could find some release for these feelings. Usually highly sensitive people have well developed intuition, creativity, a love of solitude and introspection a strong connection to other people, heightened emotional reactivity. These gifts can be of great service to humanity. The gift of astrology I believe is knowing you are born this way and to be able to identify these gifts and challenges in your natal chart. Boundaries are difficult for sensitive people you need to develop the ability to stay connected to yourself, Knowing you are more overwhelmed emotionally means you have to find ways to protect yourself. Acts of violence are disturbing but people with highly active emotions will absorb all the negative feelings associated with these crimes. You are only young and are still learning how to sustain yourself in the world at this age. You need to accept your sensitivity and find ways to work with your nature rather than your natural emotional gifts working against you.
With your south node in Leo 11th you naturally look and depend upon warmth and generosity in society from people, but in order to balance your nodal path (life development) you need to grow towards your Aquarius North Node in 5th house and this means by developing yourself as an individual, you need to feel you are doing something unique which enables you to develop your own individual contribution to society. Sometimes with an Aquarian North Node it can also indicate a need for you to develop objectivity. There is also a need to nurture yourself from within with having your Moon challenged in 12th, rather than wanting to escape it's about learning to become more adept at handling your emotional world and developing yourself more, maybe by working in a occupation which involves caring for others or try and get back into to your mystical studies, use your talents and share them with others you have a lot of trines from the 2nd house Pluto (your own resources) to your 10th house of ambitions and your higher aspirations, but you have to work through your own emotions first. I would say your feelings of deep dissapointment are related to Moon square Saturn/Neptune/Chiron. Your dealing with some complicated emotions I really can see from your point of view how difficult these feelings must be, I am hoping you don't give up as we need more sensitive and empathetic people like you here on this planet I just hope you can work through these emotions long enough to find your way out again.
11-25-2008, 05:52 AM
I don't like killing "cute animals" in order to survive, however this isn't a perfect world, so sometimes we have to do whats neccassary (we adjust) . It's o.k. to eat animals (sometimes the thought of eating flesh makes me want to puke, and I'm a super tough male!) (I'm guessing that your female) . The animals that die for us so that we may eat are probably glad to get out of this place, and once the animal is dead, well, he ain't in there no more, so they leave behind a gift for us being their body. (just as organ donors leave behind parts for other humans so that they may have a better quality of life.) As far as feeling like checking out yourself, well read the quote on the bottom of Shining Ray's post (while your there read the whole post, it's a very perceptive interpretation) . You might want to think about what your reaction would be if a doctor told you that you only have 3 weeks to live!, you would probably feel very cheesed off, that alone would show you that there is a part of you that wants to live and love, it's just that you may not be able to see that right now. Yes life is difficult at times, unfair, unjust and downright cruel, but hey, are we going to let that stop us from making some changes? NO!. You alone can make a huge difference with your emotional insight and astrological studies. By the way, the "wave of derealization" that hit you when you were around 10 years old would probably be your progressed midheaven coming to a conjunction with Chiron with the opposition to Neptune, a powerful combination on a powerful axis, but thats decreased in strength now so once you get past the difficult teen years things will be so much easier for you. I look forward to more of your posts Caprising.
11-25-2008, 02:47 PM
If you have been in a spiritual quest, and you believe you will leave this plane to go somewhere else, then you believe in the continuing of the soul. If that's the case, consider why you came here in the first place.
What makes you think you will get out of here and go to a nice shiny place where everybody is more "enlightened"? According to the spiritism concepts, you won't; you will *come back*, with more burdens to deal with............
You probably have to do some learning in this bloody, war-wrecked, painful plane of existence, like all of us simple beasts. And if you take your own life you will be simply postponing this and adding karma to it.
You suffer for the animals? And killing yourself will help them in exactly which way? Don't you think you are too focused on yourself?
11-27-2008, 03:47 PM
Thank you for your replies - yes, I am still here....though I don't know HOW, given my actions last night...
I have posted my chart below, and yes, I am a female.
I am normally a very private person. I would normally never dream of sharing these sorts of thoughts, being typically as secretive as they come...but now I fail to see the point in refraining...and thus I have a few words to share, specifically for those who think this is a form of narcissism or a plea for attention...
I have not left my house in months for FEAR of attracting attention - I have not contacted my family for months because I am ASHAMED of my condition, not PROUD or wanting to garnish sympathy - my post here was for the sake of curiosity and curiosity alone. You know nothing of my situation and I would advise you to live and let live (or let die in this case). So you think I opt to live my life in a dream state? I know of no other state. Well, of course, aside from the the type that I am in now - the type where I am being deceived into seeing a real world to interact with (this is surely an illusion). A counselor will only deceive me further into imagining that there is some beauty here.
Can you expect me to really have any friends? Really? Look at my outlook on life; It is bleak, it is dismal, and it will not change. I was accepted to university this year and dropped out after two weeks. When I was young I had so much promise, won many awards, showed academic brilliance. I see now it was irrelevant.
How can anyone expect me to help my animals with all of these humans impeding my progress? The only thing that's landed me is a criminal record. At least I will be able to guide them out of sight, where I can't be reprimanded for saving lives, or won't be torn to shreds by the bears that I attempt to petition for :rolleyes:. I shall wait until humans look upon the killing of other species as they now look upon the killing of other races, or gender. Then perhaps I shall return.
I am a strict vegan, but I feel horrible eating anything because it involves KILLING regardless! A vegetable may not have a nervous system, but why then does it not warrant the right to life? I try to live on only fruit. Perhaps I shall die of malnutrition before the time comes..
Nature is SEXIST the way it treats females and males alike - its a travesty! I don't believe in human reproduction, either...for the same reasons...and also given the needs of thousands of children who HAVE no parents, or, even more important, the needs of the animals who have no future. !
I find the economy and the working system to be inexcusably and absolutely and incredibly CORRUPT and refuse to take part in it. Oh believe me, I have been called lazy many times! Sure, technically it is true, though the proper term is probably near-death (I look like a skeleton at this point) - I have not the energy to walk to one side of my house to the other; I have not the will nor the nerve to go to the grocery store to buy food, lest I see the corpses of animals littering the walls! What is your response to that? That I should deal with it, as you all deal with it?
My response: I will not and I cannot. And as such, there is CLEARLY no place for me here.
This is my chart:
11-27-2008, 07:46 PM
I expect your post has engendered some seemingly hostile responses because some people find reading posts from someone seemingly bent on self-destruction to be disturbing. I don't know if you are narcissistic or not, but I believe that most of the major religions most certainly do see suicide as a grave sin. And as other people have said here, an act that can and will have terrible consequences for your family and friends.
And by the way. it is not possible to predict suicide because this is an act of free will. The natal, transits and progressions may show what issues there may be and periods of crisis, but not how any given individual may respond to them.
I know that the Jain religion in India is fairly extreme about not wanting to kill even insects inadvertently and go at great pains to avoid this, with their practises - however, I don't know that they believe that you should actually not eat, or starve yourself to death - nor suggest that so doing is in any way noble.
I am struck by the fact that the Moon, your Sun ruler, is slap bang on your Ascendant, and in exact square to Uranus - that to me would want to make me ask how comfortable you are with any ambivalence in emotions, towards understanding what your feelings might really be telling you, especially as your Moon is in an air sign. This is further complicated by this square being part of a bigger apsect pattern, a t-square, with Mercury - too easy to rationalise here, to not be able to know what your left or your right foot is doing. This Moon - which is said to have a lot to do with attitudes towards food and towards the whole messy process of being incarnate, on your Ascendant, may hint more than a little about control issues over eating - that looks a lot more like common-garden anorexia to me than anything else. Moon-Uranus can also engender great feelings of anxiety, and difficulty in being able to handle this...
You have a close Mars square Pluto too, which also may tell a story about something rather deep being turned inwards.
Whether or not coming from a geniune idealism or even spirituality, there may be a huge amount that you have not really understood or resolved yet, and it could be that you do owe it to yourself, and to others, to get your house in order here.
11-27-2008, 08:35 PM
6th house ruler Neptun conjoined with Saturn in 4th, in a restrictive Cap, may be responsible for food restrictions
also Saturn with Neptune in 4th points to restrictions and cold childhood in general, perhaps with something being hidden from you in your home.
No matter how hard and bleak things may appear now to you, I have seen many 'lost causes' change their seemingly awful conditions and life outcome, thus never losed hope for anyone.
I think even those further down might be more inclined to fight and make it some day(and in your case, I see you haven;t gotten to that point yet, not meaning you won't eventually)
life isn't easy for anyone, just try to accept this. and if you have any faith in any higher power, you'd know you were not given more than you can handle.
Best of luck to you :)
11-27-2008, 08:58 PM
something to add, I do see your mind is strong as it manages to create all those theories you do actually believe as they are very logical in your terms, Mercury on MC and trining Pluto, but opposed by aforementioned Saturn Neptune conjunction, I see this Mercury as a point to strive to, in order to get away from that conjunction. Look at it like this - you stay pulled down by it, or you leave it at that, and move forward
psychological Trickster is at work here, past pains are rationalized and explained by powerful mind that created logic outside of this world - so it is normal you can't function in this world. It served a purpose, you probably protected yourself from future pains ;)
instead of thinking of reasons why it is very logical and justified to kill yourself use the power of your mind, along with the power of transformation Pluto will provide(also obsessive thinking), and commit yourself to thinking and working on philosophical ideas and ideals within this world(Jupiter in 9th will help this), operating with what has been given to you, instead of negating the world's realities.
I do not see in this chart format where NN is placed - this would show a path for you to take.
(I realize you'd probably have to heal enough, physically and mentally, therapy within and insitution is highly advisable, if you can get a place in an ed clinic of some sorts in your area. I know a lot about this, being extremely thin alters your mind - it might also be cause for a dream state - it is not normal for a body to starve, it is one of primary conditions for normal functioning. Believe me, you will be able to see the beauty, cause it is out here, it does exist, you simply can't see any of it in your current state)
Aren't you at least curious how your life could be if you dropped all your fixations and changed the way you think? That certainly wouldn't kill you ;)
11-27-2008, 09:08 PM
Most people would agree with your criticisms about this world, me included. There is nothing special about feeling that you are struggling with things you don't agree with, it happens to 99% of mankind.
Bottom line is: you like to believe that you are better than everybody else.
And you are damaging your health to keep this cherished belief of yours.
11-27-2008, 11:30 PM
My mother was always very cold. She is not fond of showing affection. I suspect she suffers from extreme depression, though she tries to hide it. I cannot recall once that she told me "I love you", unless I say it first, of course. She never voluntarily hugs me, or asks about my condition, unless it offers her an opportunity to be critical. When I choose to offer insight into my beliefs, my dreams, my convictions, she usually mocks them. For example, she thinks my vow of strict veganism is pathetic, and is ashamed of this and any other of my eccentricities. While my father berates those (usually extended family) who make fun of my views, my mother always joins in. She does not like to be looked down on by the majority, I suppose, and shuns anything that differs from the norm. I have not contacted my mother in months, as I know she will feel no pity, but rather immense shame over my current state. It feels very strange to be sharing this information now.. I have always repressed it. I wonder if it is pertinent.
Again, thank you for your responses. I am most appreciative to those who have offered me insight into my chart, as I lack the knowledge to do so on my own. However, I deeply regret revealing my age, as it seems to predispose people to condescending attitudes...
To keep myself busy in the past hours I have taken caprising's advice and looked into the aspects Chiron makes to the rest of my chart...being a virtual novice, I cannot decipher its impact. :p
Is anyone able to shed some light on the significance of its placements? Here are some factors that were omitted from previous versions of my chart:
Chiron: Cancer 10.36
Ceres: Gemini 6.59
Pallas: Aries 14.31
Juno: Virgo 14.52
Vesta: Capricorn 7.07 R
Fortune: Sagittarius 18.43
South Node: Leo 26.15
Thank you so very much for all of your aid thus far. I can't express how much it means to me that you've even peeked at my chart, as I myself cannot truly understand it, though it fascinates me to no end. I am beginning to consider admitting myself into center for help, for the sake of my boyfriend, my cat and my family and though I can't see it doing any good, as it never has before... we shall see how it goes. This type of outlook only exists on one of my "good days". Merci infiniment for your assistance.
11-28-2008, 06:55 AM
I would suggest looking into life on earth a bit further, there are a few "untruths" concerning who we are and where we come from. I can't put my veiws on these matters in a post because different people have differing belief systems, so I have to respect their "religion" as I would like them to respect my belief system. if you want a few shortcuts I would be happy to P.M. you a few areas to look at. It's tough having ones moon in Libra, moreso on the ascendant, because it's just so bloody good anything else in comparison seems like....hell,(till you adjust somewhat). As we enter "adulthood" we go through enormous changes within ourselves , you are in one of those periods where the reality you are expected to accept as "the way things are" is really quite unacceptable, hence your refusal to accept things as they are. (and who can blame you!, I don't accept it either).But I have adjusted somewhat, as there is no other way out without causing loved ones and friends enormous pain (and that would be contributing to the mess). if you choose to suicide then you would be taking a life just as we take animals lives (but for a different reason, we kill animals in order to survive) , and leaving the earth without contributing to it's betterment won't help much if re-incarnation is fact as you will have to come back to a place that has a higher percentage of people who cant or wont help clean the mess up. Better you stay I think, and help the rest of us acheive something positive, so that the earth and it's inhabitants might evolve into a really cool place. You do realize that you have a very spiritual chart/persona ?, and you are in the middle of a mental/emotional/spiritual evolutionary "leap"! Chiron is often called the planet of "woundedness", yours is powerful being within 2 and a half degrees of your natal mercury, and became more obvious to you when your progressed M.C. came to conjunct it when you were around 10 years old. You described this feeling yourself as being disturbingly cruel, and the other term you used was "disturbingly surreal, which would be your neptune conjucting the I.C. in opposition to chiron. This gives you great insight into how chiron affects us, and also how neptune "dissolves reality", so what you have been given is an oppertunity to understand not only how these 2 planets can affect us, but also how powerful the I.C./M.C. axis is in our natal and progressed charts. You also have a very strong pluto influence occuring, transiting pluto is now conjunct your natal I.C. (where we are coming from) , and to make the effect stronger your natal retrograde pluto has gone into forward motion and is now conjunct your natal pluto, and to make things even harder for you your natal first house has progressed somewhat bringing pluto into your progressed first house. talk about a tripple whammy pluto event! it's no wonder you feel the way you do!, luckily transiting pluto will soon move forward off your I.C. and progressed pluto will move away from your natal placement easing the "death feelings" that you describe. With both your prog. moon (emotional self) and jupiter (luck) in the ninth house (foriegn travel) I would suggest a change of location to get transiting pluto of your prog. I.C. (when we relocate our progressed chart changes to the new location) If you move to a location that gets transiting pluto off your I.C. and changes your chart somewhat then I would suggest that this could be very beneficial for you. I would consult a very experienced professional astrologer who specialises in relocation astrology first though in order to work out where to go. I would think about going on a "holiday" for a few weeks in order to see how a new location affects you physically and mentally, are you financal enough to make a break? I just progressed your chart to Perth ,Australia, and pluto is not only out of your first house, your progressed sun is in leo on the prog. I.C. (thats gotta make a person feel a lot more sunny), and your prog. asc would be Taurus (love of food!). The moon and jupiter would also be in your second house. Maybe a bit of study is in order here, have you heard of relocation astrology before?
11-28-2008, 07:19 AM
I would like to hear more of those "untruths" you speak of, and look forward to your PM. Relocation astrology is an entirely novel concept to me...I haven't really the funds for anything drastic...but at this point, its kind of literally a do or die situation and I'm therefore willing to try anything. Thank you for your post.
11-28-2008, 08:17 AM
'I am beginning to consider admitting myself into center for help, for the sake of my boyfriend, my cat and my family and though I can't see it doing any good, as it never has before... we shall see how it goes'
There are certainly many blind spots, lack of empathy and insensitivities among people who are supposedly there to 'help' but even these may be able to offer you something, even though you may not like them overall, whilst others may be able to offer something witin, maybe, one or two limitations. Maybe, just take and use what you can?
I know Chiron is important for healing, but I do think it is also very important to look into what the Moon is about with all this, as it looms so large on your Ascendant. Your t-square to it from Mercury, Chiron and Uranus do rather hint at rejection and lack of any real nurture from someone who maybe had too many issues of her own to really engage in your deepest needs - now, of course, all this can be internalised. I am no royalist, but was interested to note that Princess Diana also had a hard Moon-Uranus aspect - here symbolising a divorce, or split between deeper needs and a rebellious urge for freedom that can often have contempt for female roles and what it may perceive as the limitations of biology (Uranus).
But these issues still have to be resolved, even if it takes a lifetime. I once came acros a book on the net that seemed to take a sensitive look at the issues related to eating disorders, it may or may not have been astrological, but again, it looked at the whole area in terms of Moon symbolism.
I do think the Mars/Pluto square is another major area to look at, especially as Pluto may also be making a wide square to your chart ruler Venus too, it being maybe about issues related to anger and sexuality, but I shall leave that to you for now.
I should think that a controlling or punitive approach to your treatment could be the worst, though a degree of confrontation without contempt may almost cetainly be necessary. If you are in a positon to shop around for therapists or places to stay and be treated.
11-28-2008, 06:21 PM
archergirl, I cannot fathom being as cold as you are.
I've stated time and time again that I am not here as a bid for attention, but rather for the sake of curiousity...Astrology INTERESTS me, especially when its relevant to things that occur in my life, be it my state of mind, or things that have/will come to pass. Is that not natural? Forgive me if you would not deign it as such.
Please don't make sweeping assumptions about my state of mind; it does not belong to you and you cannot possibly reason from your distant position that I ENJOY being suicidal. I was happy once, long ago, and I remember how it was like; to have degressed so deep into unhappiness is NOT pleasurable for me in any which way. You dare state misery is my reason for living...?
That statement caused me a great deal of grief, in fact, it has effectively ruined what would have been an otherwise "good day" for me...
My hesistance is stemmed from a number of sources:
One may wish to do something very much, but have reservations about doing so... It happens everday.
That you would group me into these soi-disant stereotypes of yours, I find to be most offensive. You ask what's keeping me from killing myself? I'll be truthful, I don't really know; but I do wish to die; however I see that others don't wish it. Also, I admit, I am fearful of what repercussions there may be for me, karmic-wise, if I take my own life. Will I go through with it eventually, soon even? Probably. Do I need your hand to push me over the edge? No, I don't.
While everyone else responded to the relevant question in my post, you ignored it and made personal attacks. Have I upset in you in some way? I'm actually very sorry if this is the case. Please, I abhor conflict and I don't wish to initiate anything of a negative nature with you. :o
You call me narcissistic, perhaps in your mind, or even to the objective eye, it may be true. But you seem to have a very SET way of seeing the world, and its rather clear that you would have me "do things your way". Is that not narcissistic? Why not just let me go on living, or not, and you enjoy the world you find so much beauty in. :)
11-28-2008, 07:08 PM
I suggest EFT.
Don't compare it too anything you have tried before without trying it first.
You have saturn in 4thH...growning up wasn't easy,
You have a few similar aspects that I have as well.
Uranus square moon
Moon on the asc.
Just try EFT.
The moon not only symbolizes the emotions but also the mind.
IT is going to increase you sensitivity to the environment....
Work on the emotional body with EFT and discharge and cleanse some of the emotions tied up with...whatever is there.
It's basically easy to learn, you can probably read through it in a day at the most.
The book is free.
You need a PDF reader, that's free too.
Here is an anorexia case handled.
Here is one on agoraphobia.
Marie's agoraphobia--including a follow-up
I received a phone call last night from an agoraphobic lady ("Marie") whom I had never met. I drove 20 miles to her VERY rural home this morning to see if I could help. Nice lady. She answered the door with her toddler grandson ("Johnny") at her side.
Marie had agoraphobia for at least 25 years. She can go outside her home but rarely goes beyond 50 yards without feeling intense body heat, panic and other fear responses. She refers to it as "my illness."
The first order of business is always establishing rapport. We had done a fairly good job on the phone the night before and, since I knew she had great concerns for Johnny, I immediately turned my attention toward him. I got down on one knee (at his physical level) and, in a form of child talk (his style of language), asked him how old he was. He warmed up right away and informed me that he was practicing to be a bell. I said "ding-dong" as he moved his head back and forth. Rapport is easy if we are flexible and genuinely care. Marie loved it. That's important. It establishes trust and opens one up to these belief-violating procedures.
I told Marie that we often have rapid success but that agoraphobia was not likely to be one of our "one minute wonders." Again, this is rapport generating because it plugged in with her existing beliefs. Maybe some other phobia could get rapid relief--but not hers. She had it all figured out. It had been with her for too many years and it was too intense. Further, according to Marie, it was caused by her past abuses, hereditary factors and some chemical imbalances. Maybe she's right and maybe she's wrong. Who knows? But to debate this with her is to risk losing rapport. Rapport is critical. Always keep rapport. So I said, "Sure. No guarantees, of course. But if we just make a little progress, that's probably worth our time? (said with an uplifting tone at the end to turn a declarative sentence into a non-threatening question). She agreed as Johnny's cat jumped into my lap and parked himself.
I started with an explanation of EFT and referred to it as a "psychological version of acupuncture." While she had never experienced acupuncture per se, she did have some physical healing with the use of acupressure. Again, we plugged into her beliefs (rapport). It was still weird and "out there" to her but she was perfectly willing to try it.
During the first applications of EFT, I ignored her agoraphobia and tapped for other issues. This was because:
1. My own intuitive sense was that her agoraphobia was a symptom of deeper causes.
2. I wanted to get her comfortable (familiar) with the process.
3. I wanted to take a shot at getting relief for an emotional issue before we ventured outside into her worst fear. This would let me know how responsive she was to the process and would give her some sense of confidence in what we were doing.
We tapped for two issues in her living room. The first was for a verbally abusive experience with her father. It went from 9 to 0 in two shortcut rounds of EFT. We then tapped for a broader issue--"My mother doesn't love me." This went from a 10 to a 0 within two minutes. In both cases I asked her to vividly imagine the circumstances and try to get herself worked up about them. She couldn't. She said, "I can remember them but why bother?" This was fun. It was all done in a low key kind of way. The tapping was gentle. The affirmations were gentle. Johnny was quiet and watching intently. The cat was purring in my lap.
We then went outside to see how the process might work with her agoraphobia. I reminded her that she was not to be courageous and confront her fear. She was not to see how far she could go before panicking and running back home. Instead, we were to use her system as an indicator of when we needed to tap. This was to be as painless as possible. She was instructed to tell me whenever she felt any kind of fear response--even a 1 or 2. "That is a tapping opportunity," I told her, "Don't let it go by."
I pointed to a spot down the road about 50 yards away (her approximate limit) and had her tap for "going beyond there." No problem. We walked to that point and I asked her if she was still zero. Yes. We went another 50 yards. She had no fear response but she said her head was telling her that she should be having problems about now and that if she goes any further she will be sorry. This, in my experience, is typical and to be expected. Remember, she rarely gets this far away from home without a severe fear response. We tapped for "what my head is saying" and went on.
About 50 yards later she said her sinuses were "tightening up" to about a 2 or 3 level. I took this to be a physical symptom of the "unusualness" of being this far away from home. Two brief EFT rounds later, the sinus tightening was gone. We went another 50 yards or so and she said her jaw was tightening (she has TMJ). It was a 4. One round and it was gone. We went on. Now we were faaaaar beyond her previous "limit" and she had no fear response whatsoever. However, she wanted to go back for two reasons:
1. While she felt no fear at the moment, her head was still telling her to be careful. To me, this is either a valid sign that we really do need to do more tapping on underlying levels OR her head was just giving her some normal and logical signs of caution. "After all, this could be a fluke. Maybe you are just lucky today. Don't overdo it. You know how that panic feels. Be sensible. Be careful. 25 years of emotional pain doesn't go away in a few minutes."
2. Johnny was getting restless and bored with the whole thing and wanted to go back home.
Is there more to do? Most likely. Many past issues here. A blank spot in her childhood memories. A long history of verbal/mental abuse by parents & family. But, in an hour and a half, we accomplished a fair amount by anyone's standards.
Love to all, Gary
If anything you can use EFT to save all your animals.
Stop being so defeated, the world never change overnight.
I used to like to destroy my self to make others wrong too...and even if they were wrong, my methods were lousy.
You can do allot more alive.
But to be honest this is all beyond reason isn't it.
Try the taping with EFT.
You seem to have allot of emotional issues, it's a good place to start.
There are all those tough aspects to you moon on the asc which causes you to have an oversensitivity and really, it may be easy for you to et at the issues you supressed....easier then you think....but you going to have to get over hte idea of reasoning them away.
You can't talk your way into seeing the world as a beautifull place..it just doens't work.
The Taping releases the very thing that alter and changes our percetption of the world, the mind, and the emotions, are a very very powerfull thing.....you can help a person to try and get better all day long, but at the most..it often just doens't work out because they don't want to....they do...but they don't...and it's ******* complicated...I know.
Give this a try. I have the idea you'll like it anyway.
The moon on the asc can be like a large open wound with peroxide and salt pored onto it...and those things stick.....the moon can make you impressionable......it can make you very imprintable.......it can impress things upon you..images, scenes, experences, moments.....so....those things can be cleared up or worked through and straitened out.
A moment of disilsionment can ofen be a large shift in reality...if you remember it very clearly...which doesn't suprise me...moon on asc...take it up and find anything that bothers you about it and tap on it.....
Your not an idiot, you can figure it out...you should be able to start about an hour after you read through the book....there are tons of videos online as well....
It might help you snap out of it some and recontact planet earth.
The animals thing....I don't think veganism is some major problem...it is the total inability to walk into a room with dead animals...and freaking the **** out..that's an emotional issue.
A doctor that saves lives doens't freak out at the sight of blood, and doctors can be empathetic...these are emotional reacitions and your emotions controlling you...you have a strong moon...you have to sort of take care of the things that are controlling you below your awareness....manipulating your body and thoughts.
Budhist monks practice for years to master their mind, emotions, body...just pulling the plug doesn't work......it's a quick exit then back on the wheel.
I've astral traveled and used bodies outside of the astral as well.
You may as well stick arround and clear up the emotioal reactive aspects of the body that are making you not able to enter enviroments that are a bit touchy too you.
Gradually increasing your confront actually alows you to do something about things. IT also allows you to imrpove your sense of equalibrim in times when noremally you would be shocked. The outside world is really having an effect on you....all is illusion...I agree...but with the effect it is creating on you, it's turned nightmare......and your not seeing it as an illusion...are you...your seeing it as surreal cold and dirrect reality.
IF it was truely surreal to you you would also have the possitive surreal aspects of this existence as well.....s it's not relaly a wide open sensitivity.....it's something else.
Try EFT first.
Do whatever the hell you want to do, I'm not going to tell you how to live your life.
But don't expect people to have absolutely no empathy and for then to be completely indifferent to someone who plans a suicide basically in front of you. I probably feel the same way about people as you do about animals.
It seems like you want advice in a way, or you don't...and I can't really tell wat you want.
You would know, and ther eis a truth to that...and I think I know what your looking for.....but people are goingto have reactions to seeing someone post a picture and saying that they have been planning to kill themselves for some time now, and they may do it soon, or not at all, or whatever....no big deal.....people react becuase they don't like to see people die. They value life. I could see without pleasure, someone wouldn't. But it doens't sound like you without pain either...so we can't say your numb either. BUt this is all guework isn't it...nobody knows you but you...and even you may not know you too well all the time....I don't think I've ever met anyone who totally knew theirself. I've just never met anyone that publicly posted a picture and said they were going to kill themselves as seemingly cool about it as you are.....it's kind of intersting, and horrfiying, mixed with a touch of sureal oddity itself.....
IT just sounds like your touchy and you have something waking something up below your awarness and I would watch moon cycles, and I'd be carefull on full, and new moons, and I'd do emotional work on ties when you have easy moon aspects...but yeah..i'd look out for new and full moons...you could be extra sensitive and touchy on those dates.
11-28-2008, 09:20 PM
archergirl, thank you for your input.
I can see you are frustrated with me; I am sorry. I am frustrated with myself; firstly for having suicidal thoughts, secondly for not acting on them. I will refrain from "arguing" with you further, though please believe me it was never my intention to offend you.
This is my predicament: I suppose I do want to live despite my desire for death (a strange contradiction, but it exists nonetheless), but I don't see the point nor do I really have the will to. I *DO* want to be happy, but I don't see HOW I could accomplish that (though I am currently looking into what tsquare posted) given the current affairs of the universe. HENCE the reason I feel suicidal, but have not yet killed myself. When I am in touch with the physical realm, believe me, I feel horrible for having self-mutilated, taken pills, etc., but then I go on to throw up relentlessly, I suppose its a ploy to have some control here on earth.... I know it is immensely selfish to take one's life, and given my spiritual beliefs that I will not cease to exists after death, and that I will have to still confront my issues...well, I don't understand how I could continue having these thoughts, though they persist nevertheless.
Yes, I am "messed up", yes I am self-destructive, and no I do not get any enjoyment out my suffering - please understand that there are people in this world that are different than you and react differently to misery. You and I are not identical in our thought processes, and therefore what is seen as a changeable situation to you, may not be perceived as such by me. I truly admire your strength and your ability to have overcome your issues, and I really sincerely mean that, but please don't have the same haughty expectations of others. Still, I thank you for your words. :)
Yes, I know its bizarre and demented how I go from one post to another acting as someone entirely different each time, but this is recently my way, up and down one moment to the next. I just don't care if anyone sees my picture; Why should I? I have lost my once tight reservations. No point in hanging on to them now, really.
I'm sorry to have disturbed so many people... That was insolent of me and I deeply regret it. I will not share any more thoughts, as many of my questions have been answered. Thank you to everyone who has posted responses, it has given me a great deal to reflect upon and contemplate.
11-30-2008, 04:37 AM
Sonta, I do think you have a difficult chart. I also have a lot of oppositions in my chart, like you do. If you are still here and would like more thoughts on your chart, please either respond again, or send me a PM. BTW, with your North Node in the 5th house, it looks like your personal growth lies in recovering your early childhood and your own inner child.
12-17-2008, 06:23 PM
Just to let everyone know...
I am still alive and kicking! In fact, I am doing much, much better.
I am currently staying at a hospital (I have been since late November) in order to properly treat and medicate myself. My suicidal tendencies have since diminished a great deal, and my other issues have been reduced tenfold as well.
I'm not quite finished yet, but I hope to be discharged sometime within the next month!
Needless to say, I have been spending a lot of time meditating, contemplating and reading my astrology books, so lets hope I can at last keep up when I get out of here! ;)
Thank you for your responses,
12-18-2008, 06:27 PM
I am glad to hear you are getting medical care, and that your situation is improving, Cedyze. May the Force be with you!
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