What can we do to change our destiny

[natasa812]

http://www.astro.com/tmpd/cykbfile81Zuhu-u1222861832/astro_2gw_01_gi_g.37778.8443.gif (http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=astro_2gw_01_gi_g.37778.8443.gif&res=100&va=&cid=ykbfile81Zuhu-u1222861832)

I was thinking about all of our horary questions and true predictions I read on this site and than the question came to me at 03:18 in the morning - what CAN we do to change our destiny or the outcome of the event. Now, we have to beat the enemy whit his own weapon so I did the horary about a horary...
So - I am asking the question (or we? - where is the planet for the world population?). Is it the first house (Destiny in the making) or the 11o (beneficial fate) or the 12o? Since the 4o, the 8o and the 12o houses are the Terminal (the question is about the outcome of the event) I took the 8o house ruler for the quesited because it represents the ``liberation of the soul`` because when we get what we want it feels like a ``liberation`` - like a weight taken away from us.
So, it is Venus for me
and Venus again for the quesited
Venus is the ruler of the 1o - it comes back to me - so is it that the destiny is in our hands? or we just think it is...
Venus is in 3o - 3o is representing powers of the mind and its ability to mold destiny within one`s social environment - so do we ``make`` our destiny by our thoughts and the thoughts of the people around us? Venus is in the end of 3o so, should we interprate it like it is in the 4o?
The Moon is in 12o - past lifes, karma, disposition in the after world.
Now, what is the Moon doing? Moon and Venus no aspect - so is that the NO answer - we cant do anything to change our destiny? Or the outcome of an event?
If we take the ruler of the 12o - Mercury for the quesited, he is in the 2o - 2o house represents our strongest desires, the pursuit of our destiny, but is in combust by Sun - does it means that no matter how strong our desires are and no matter how hard we try, if there is a ``stronger power`` or higher power (the Sun), our powers are ``restricted``?
The 4o house ruler (the outcome) is Saturn - but he is in conjunction with Moon - means ``working together`` - but there is also a Jupiter ``sitting`` in the 4o and also in trine with Saturn - does it means that even when things look negative (Saturn) - our luck (Jupiter trine Moon) is ``working for us``?
I still get the NO answer because I think that there are a lot of factors ``out of our reach. The Venus is in conjunction with Jupiter so does it means that we should just try and work and hope and the ``good Jupiter`` that trines Saturn and the Moon will do ``the rest``?
Any idea?
Thank you
Natasha

[lillyjgc]

Natasha,
I'm not sure this can be a horary question, at least not in its current wording. Here is the definition of *destiny":
(from dictionary.com)
1.something that is to happen or has happened to a particular person or thing; lot or fortune.2.the predetermined, usually inevitable or irresistible, course of events.

If something is inevitable, by definition it cannot be changed, so as I read your question, you are in fact asking *what can we do to change that which cannot be changed*.
I'm not trying to be picky here, but to answer a horary question, the question itself must be clear.
I have a vague idea of what you are *getting at*, but I really do feel the question itself needs to be thought through and worded better.
Our *destiny*, as individuals, and as a mass consciousness is in a state of perpetual change, influenced by every thought and every action.I dont believe we are operating to a *pre-determined script* (though others may disagree of course).
In your chart, though, the moon is void of course, and as it is the moon's task to describe *what will happen* when it's not doing anything, nothing will happen or nought will come of the question.Its impossible for an astrologer to accurately describe *what will happen*when the moon can't tell us.
Cheers,
Lillyjgc

[natasa812]

Thank you for your answer. You are right. I have discussed this matter with some friends who have visited an profesional astrologer (the same one I did) and he told them that some things in their life will happen - just like that. And those things happened. To me - he sad - I have a lot of ``aspects`` - which means that I have choises and that I can choose between a for example A or B job and they did not have those ``aspects`` - as I can understand those are the possibilities. So, what is the difference - their ``destiny`` that can not be changed and mine ``destiny`` where I can do something about (at least to choose)- and who is the one to determinate that?
Whith best regards
Natasha

[archergirl]

You have to be careful with what 'professional' astrologers tell you is 'going to happen'. The effects of these sorts of predictions are because a) you are expecting something to happen, and therefore create it so it 'fits' (in other words, what you believe, will manifest), or b) it would have happened whether it was predicted or not ('You will eat lunch at 12:00 on Friday'), but because it was pointed out to you, you then 'noticed' that it happened. I never noticed my legs were hairy when I was twelve, until my best friend Jeff pointed it out to me.

I personally believe that absolutely nothing is predestined, and that everything is a choice. There are certain cosmic influences at work that force us as a species to evolve and 'move forward', so this can be seen as a sort of destiny, I guess; but how we evolve and when we evolve and in what manner we evolve, are very much up to us.

If you want to change your destiny, all you have to do is choose to do so. Read Eckhardt Tolle and see. But this is more complicated than it sounds; because you are fighting family imprinting and social imprinting and cultural imprinting, and most people are simply not strong enough or willing to work hard enough, to throw all of their baggage away sufficiently, to change the paths and patterns of their lives. It is very easy, and very hard.

It also depends on what you mean by 'destiny'. Do you feel you are destined to be a famous ballerina, but have never taken ballet classes or listened to Tchaikovsky, and you lost a leg in a car accident? Chances are then very slim, that you will ever be a famous ballerina. Is it your destiny to be extremely rich, but you go from low-paid job to low-paid job, and spend what money you have on the sale racks at Macy's? Chances are very slim that you will ever be a tycoon. Like most forms of greatness, this sort of 'destiny', takes work. And like most things, it is not just one choice ('It is my destiny to be the next Donald Trump'), but a long line of decisions and choices that you make, that creates your destiny.

AG:)

[natasa812]

Dear Archergirl,
thank you for your answer, now I understand even less...
If nothing is predestined, than why do we do all the horary and natal and everything... How much can we ``choose`` and how much of it is just ``written`` and cant be avoided? And what is the difference between me and my friends? Why for example I have choises and ``many aspects`` and they dont? From ``my aspect of view`` their life is much easier - they just ``know`` that there is an event which cant be avoided... (if nothing else, they can prepare themselfs for it) Does it have anything to do with the Sagittarius and mutable signs - why is my situation ``changeable`` and their not? They think that I am lucky to have choises - f.e. - to change a carrer, or a place to live any time I want... And yes, I worked hard for everything but I have enormous energy which makes me work constantly and whith joy, I have achieved my goals (every target) and, I have fighted family, social and cultural imprinting and it is the beauty of life - to improve ourselfs and the world we live in (please put some more jokes on Astrology humor about Sagittarius - like life is beautifull and Sun is always shining... - but indeed it is....), just wandering was it all written because some times, I try hard for something and something else just ``comes to me`` whit me doing nothing - just like that - easily...
Sagittariusly beautifully sunshinely yours
Natasha

[Awakened_Pisces]

In my mind, worrying about destiny pre-determined or otherwise sets you back. Indeed, I look at myself and I constantly wonder if I can "do it" at times. And other times, I feel like the "king of the world" so to speak. This in-decisiveness destroys the mental frame of the mind and sends one seeking answers. I think of this as Pluto. And with Pluto entering Capricorn. Those born in 1980-1990's will feel a mental shakeup in their approach.

[natasa812]

Thank you very much... but I am not ``so`` young for Pluto. The question is why sometimes I try and I work hard for something and nothing happens and sometimes things just ``come to me`` easily and with no participation at all... Maybe that ``easy way`` is suppose to be followed because ``it was just written to be``, it is good for us and it comes easily for us not to get tired or unhappy - I mean it is for our own sake... My AC is in pisces - you pisces, Ra has probably AC in Sag. - and we communicate on this site, so, is this all ``random`` or ``predisposed`` somehow
With best wishes
Sagittarius / pisces

[archergirl]

If nothing is predestined, than why do we do all the horary and natal and everything... How much can we ``choose`` and how much of it is just ``written`` and cant be avoided?

You can't choose the fact that you were born without legs, for example; but you can certainly choose to either let it hold you back, or to become a Paralympian.

Astrology is not fatalistic; there is a huge amount of Free Will involved in anyone's life. In horary we are capturing a moment in time and taking a snapshot of the Bigger Picture, in which we are all involved and have some input. We ask horaries to help us make decisions; but the decision is ultimately still ours. If a chart says that a relationship is not going to work, we can choose to continue pursuing that relationship and making much unhappiness for ourselves; or we can give the relationship up and find one that is better for us.

Natal astrology simply shows us a map of our life from the moment we are born; but like all maps there are many roads we can choose to take to arrive at the destination. It shows us tendencies we are likely to have: a tendency to be optimistic, or a tendency to feel like the world is against us. It does not show 'destiny': not everyone with the aspects of a wealthy oil magnate, will end up controlling Exxon. It is a combination of time, place, circumstance, surrounding conditions, and personal choices.

Natal astrology is best used for self-understanding, which is a form of power. But it takes more than just self-understanding. It takes acceptance of who we are and what our strengths and weaknesses are, and then it takes work to utilise our strengths and challenge our own weaknesses. A person born with a hard Neptune-Moon aspect will, for example, have a tendency toward drinking and drug-taking; or rather, they will be much more sensitive to the effects of drink and drugs.

So, if they choose to follow a self-destructive path, self-destruction will find them very easily; OR they can be aware of this sensitivity and avoid misusing substances/self-medicating, and find other ways to handle their feelings in a more positive manner; they will find friends who support them and ground them.

This is a much better question for the Natal Boards, but what I will say is this:

It is good that you are interested in understanding yourself better; that is the first step. But just having 'aspects' in a chart doesn't mean much by itself. EVERYONE has 'aspects'. Some people have a lot of aspects and very 'busy' charts; some people, like me, have relatively few. Has it reduced my choices? Not at all. In some ways, having fewer aspects frees people to make more choices, as they are less preoccupied in 'doing' their aspects.

As far as aspects go, it depends a great deal on what kind of aspects you have. A lot of hard squares in your chart? You will likely have many challenges in your personality and people around you may find you 'difficult' (Mr. Archergirl is like this). A lot of trines? Things will generally run more smoothly, or you will find it easier to 'act' on whatever that trine shows.

But even a natal chart is affected by what is around you. Two people with identical charts, but one is born to a family in Canada, and the other is born to a family in Afghanistan, will have VERY different choices in life; how they choose to deal with them, is again shown by the chart.

what is the difference - their ``destiny`` that can not be changed and mine ``destiny`` where I can do something about (at least to choose)- and who is the one to determinate that? They will have their own paths to follow, and you have yours. They can change their 'destiny', as they call it, should they choose to do so; but their drive to 'change' will also be shown in their charts. You will have your own path to follow, so your own drives, your own strengths and weaknesses, and whether you work on them or not, will determine where you end up. No one else does it for you. Just you.:)

Deep question. Good!
AG:)

[natasa812]

Dear Archergirl, first, I thought that you are a girl (how is that) - but anyway... thank you for the detailed answer and ``deep approach``, this explanation was much more useful than the previous one (sincerity of a Sagittarius - dont bother) and since you are doing this internal search and sharing it with the rest of us, it certainly does not makes you difficult (even if other people find you like this), you are making a world a better place to live and helping all of us to make more ``sense`` of our lifes and to make it more beautiful... I will look again at my aspects and try to find out more about them...
Best wishes
Natasha

[archergirl]

Um, I am a 'girl', albeit a 'girl' who is reaching middle age. :p

My husband, Mr. Archergirl, is the difficult one in the family. Perhaps you misread what I said. I have a fairly 'easy' chart , for which I am thankful.

AG:)

[natasa812]

Deeeeeeear archergirl, first, you are young in heart, and second, you are a Sagittarius toooooooooo? Happy birthday to us!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sagittaaaaaaaaaariously happy about it..... and yes, I misread it, sorry for the Mr. About a chart: a difficult natal is a challenge indeed - the beauty of life... I am still not sure about mine - have to study it and I`ll let you know...
Thanks again

[Night Sky]

Meditation

[RayAustin]

Uh oh AG I see you're creeping up on your 2000th post... Methinks you should get a prize for the dedication. :)

[natasa812]

Dear Night Sky,
I would love to leave a comment but I am not able to...
I am speechless...

[natasa812]

Dear Ra, you are right... for the dedication than!
http://www.classicdesignawards.com/images/TM-1-E.jpg

Congratulation Archergirl

[aquarius7000]

Hi Natasha,

To your very valid question: What can we do to change our destiny I have a simple answer really: exert and exercise free-will of thought and action within the framework of given possibilites (familial, monetary/cultural/societal/political and other criteria surrounding the person). The bottom line is that the native most certainly has to be the *doer* = perfomer of *action*.

You see, some of us *choose* to disregard Astrology as some sort of dupery, whilst others *decide* to study Astrology to better understand ourselves, and, accept it or not, to see what we might be *pre-disposed* to. The next (sensible) step should be to consider the (realistic) possibilites and opportunies at hand, and *make our moves* for or against those planetary and aspectual lines within that wheel of life. Life outside that wheel is not very different either, but with the basic difference that people without the knowledge of/ belief in things like Astrology, but still well aware of the restrictions and challenges they are facing in life, *always* have some kind of a choice to do something about these challenges. The million-quid question is whether or not they *will do* something and make their moves, or throw in the towel to destiny - their choice!! A Venus square Neptune might pre-dispose me to deception in love, but whether I actually become a cheat or not, or allow myself to be deceived (repeatedly) or not, has a lot to do with whether and what I learn from circumstances, and how I act- the next time.

Taking my life into my own hands,
:)aquarius7000

PS: Your chart has elapsed. You might want to consider this method (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126) of posting your charts in the future, so they remain on-screen for as long as you want them to (your choice;)).

[RayAustin]

Nice posts on the subject all ;)

[lillyjgc]

Hi all:
The best example I can give as to how we exercise free will and how this relates to our *destiny* was shown to me by a dog.
I was watching a small dog cross the road at the traffic lights. He was alone.But he seemed confident. When he crossed safely I breathed a sigh of relief...he was heading away from the highway.
Suddenly,(and it pains me to recall it), he changed his mind. It looked like he picked up a whiff of his own scent, and turned- heading back across the road.By then the lights had gone green. I saw the truck coming, saw the driver try to stop, saw the dog oblivious of the danger. By now a group of people were watching anxiously. When I uncovered my eyes, it was too late, he'd been killed.
It caused me to think deeply about the *choices we make* and how *in the moment* so many of those choices are made.(If only he hadnt turned back,if only the girl on the side of the road had called him back , if only he hadnt got out of his yard that morning etc etc etc-it all could have been different.)
It left me with a lot to think about.
As with dogs, so with people.
Cheers,Lillyjgc

[natasa812]

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4310/destinyhoraryup8.gif

[URL="http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4310/destinyhoraryup8.gif"][IMG]http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4310/destinyhoraryup8.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[natasa812]

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3735/destinyhoraryqc9.gif (http://imageshack.us)


I belive that this is the right link - still trying to resize the image and put it as attached... What to do...

[tikana]

Natasha


I think there is a difference between destiny and fate. I am not sure if you are referring to destiny or fate..

"Fate defines events as ordered or "inevitable"."
"Destiny may be seen either as a fixed sequence of events that is inevitable and unchangeable, or that individuals choose their own destiny by choosing different paths throughout their life."
Both definitions from Wikipedia

it is sort of like you are destined to be blah blah blah blah
this event was fated....

I think destiny comes before fate. Fate is total outcome of whatever you were destined to encounter.

I think future is fixed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalism

Abe Lincoln was a fatalist. As a matter of fact, he saw his death/assasination in his dream
http://personal.tcu.edu/~swoodworth/Donald-L.htm
http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln46.html
He still went ahead with his plans. I think you can avoid certain situations but overall you cannot avoid your fate. I had seen a chain of dreams a while back thinking it is impossible... I even wrote each one in my digiblog .. One every eerie conversation i had in my dream came true 1 week ago... almost word for word and not only that but the person with whom i had a conversation was sitting behind a piece of furnuture which was not in my apartment at the time when I saw the dream. I got that thing 4 weeks ago as a gift....

To answer your original question "The question is why sometimes I try and I work hard for something and nothing happens and sometimes things just ``come to me`` easily and with no participation at all..."
it is called fated. 3 years ago I was trying to get 1 thing rolling. I tried for 1.5 years. It wasnt working at all/all doors were closed. i tried using loopholes/shady ideas/creative thinking.... gave up on it figuring "ohh hell, wont happen" one morning less then 2 months that thing just fell on my lap after I called a place and accidently/fatally dialed a wrong extension and got a right person who said that I was doing it the wrong way to begin with!

One eerie story crawls into my mind. My mom's friend told this story about 1 night ... She has 4 kids. One night she has a dream that chandlier that is hanging right in the middle of the room will swing and fall on 3rd kid that is sleeping on the bed to the left from the hanging chandlier. The next night the boy fell asleep in her bed. The morning after the kids woke up and run to their parents bedroom to tell them that a chandlier fell onto 3rd bed where the boy was supposed to be sleeping. Appearantly, wind blew the windows open in the middle of a night. The kids remembered that they closed the windows the night before.

okay I see the chart

well .. part of fate is 1 virgo.. fate is 10th house - see Rex E. Bills
moon rules 10th house and it is sextiling mars which rules 2nd house .. immidiate future.
plus part of fate squares mars
very very interesting!

Deep thought horary ...

T

[lillyjgc]

Hi-Natasha:
You phrase the question "What can WE do?..." Who is *we*?
Do you mean: *What can I do to change MY destiny?*...
If the gist of this question is *what can we as individuals do* I doubt that a horary can answer that. If this is a personal question,why is it worded as *we*? What house would represent *us*?(Everyone.)
If you are asking what can you personally do, the answer is *nothing*-your ruler, venus, applies a trine to saturn-the Lord of Karma-which is in the twelfth where it joys in mischief making.
The wording of a horary question is very important.

As I said in my earlier post, the moon is void and in h12. This chart simply *cannot* answer your question as it currently stands.
Lillyjgc

[natasa812]

We - the people. I wanted to make a question for all of us. As far as I know Cancer represents people but I can`t find those informations in horary because my knoledge of astrology is very much restrected. But if you, as more experienced, think that this is a personal question, so than it must be.
Tikana from above ``got`` the idea or read it ``among`` the lines - she ``catched`` the meaning - about the things that we do nothing and they come to us easily with no effort and other times we try and try and nothing is happening and we cant avoid the outcome.

[natasa812]

I heard about a interesting book about the Einstein`s achievements and that (as he discovered) every event that is happening now has happened before and will happend in the future, but how and why, I am not en expert in this field (physics) - it has something to do with the theory of relativity and the contradictory meaning of hers with the quantic physics so the scientists got this conclusion. So, we are able to ``predict`` events - so far so good, but if those events exist``somewhere`` in the future, can we change them or the only thing we can do is to simply be prepared

[tikana]

I heard about a interesting book about the Einstein`s achievements and that (as he discovered) every event that is happening now has happened before and will happend in the future, but how and why, I am not en expert in this field (physics) - it has something to do with the theory of relativity and the contradictory meaning of hers with the quantic physics so the scientists got this conclusion. So, we are able to ``predict`` events - so far so good, but if those events exist``somewhere`` in the future, can we change them or the only thing we can do is to simply be prepared

Natasha

are you referring to quantum physics?

Tik

[natasa812]

I dont know to what I am referring to - unfortunately. It was a book about books and notes of Einstein - an explanation for us that are not able to understand his scientific terminology. I dont have it and I dont remember the title. But I will search and let you know!
Thank you all for your answers and as I wrote, you ``catched`` the essence

[tikana]

bows.. my pleasure

Okay i re-read your post.. i think you are talking about time theory/theory of relativity not quantum physics

T

[natasa812]

ATTENTION

Dear Tikana, you want belive this! I am writing you the answer, I am in my office, and the door bell rings - a client (I own translating agency - Mercury in 10. conj. Jupiter, conj. MC, sextile AC), wants to translate his document immediatly, so, I am translating it at this very moment, because he needs it at the moment (clients always do need it immediatly - somethimes even ``for yestrday`` - but back to our subject...), and as I am reading it, (a kind of certificate with all of his personal data), I see that his profesion is physics. So I asked him and explained to him about the issue and he told me that the only information about this we can find in the Experiment of Philadelfia (the same event in the past, present and the future) and in the new experiment on Switseland / Franch border (if they get any aswers), so I will search for books on this issues and let you know.
Sagittariously Mercurely happy about today`s ``ACCIDENTAL`` EVENT

[tikana]

Hi Natasa

yeah i know about Philadelphia Experiment. Some say it never happened. Too many questions about it .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment

Stephen Hawking spent a lot of time on time travel / future/past/present.

it is all theory. How practical is it? that is the question

T

[Culpeper]

"Skillful men can avert the many effects of the stars when they learn their nature and prepare themselves before hand for the occurance of the effects." Claudius Ptolomy. The very objective of all the effort to understand astrology is to improve our lives beyond what fate or destiny might of themselves be sending us. We have free will, but the difficulty is often in finding our way. To use an example from driving: It is as if someone is driving with the wind screen blacked out and can only use the rear view mirror. Astrology allows you to see ahead.

A natal chart may have many planets with essential dignity and located in the angles of the chart. This native will find opportunities in life are always waiting for him perhaps without much effort. But those with a weak chart can work hard and do everything right and when they finally arrive at some position in life, they will find others there already who seem to just coast on in.

There are astrological remedies available for unfavorable conditions of life. The natal chart cannot be overturned, but improvements can always be made. I am not certain that your horary chart can be read directly for your question as it is not specific enough. If you ment: Do I have free will. Then look to the nodes of the Moon. If there are no traditional planets near them, then you are free as a bird, but be careful to make wise decisions. "If after fate comes glory, I do not hurry." Martial

[Night Sky]

"Skillful men can avert the many effects of the stars when they learn their nature and prepare themselves before hand for the occurance of the effects." Claudius Ptolomy. The very objective of all the effort to understand astrology is to improve our lives beyond what fate or destiny might of themselves be sending us. We have free will, but the difficulty is often in finding our way. To use an example from driving: It is as if someone is driving with the wind screen blacked out and can only use the rear view mirror. Astrology allows you to see ahead.

A natal chart may have many planets with essential dignity and located in the angles of the chart. This native will find opportunities in life are always waiting for him perhaps without much effort. But those with a weak chart can work hard and do everything right and when they finally arrive at some position in life, they will find others there already who seem to just coast on in.

There are astrological remedies available for unfavorable conditions of life. The natal chart cannot be overturned, but improvements can always be made. I am not certain that your horary chart can be read directly for your question as it is not specific enough. If you ment: Do I have free will. Then look to the nodes of the Moon. If there are no traditional planets near them, then you are free as a bird, but be careful to make wise decisions. "If after fate comes glory, I do not hurry." Martial


Very good stuff Culpeper.


I believe in choice, choose to do what´s hard or choose to do what´s easy. After all the measure of how valuable something is is often in relation to how hard it was to achieve.

Learn your nature, and create a reality that you want in your mind.

[natasa812]

Very beautiful - everything you wrote, and thank you again...
Starting to study nodes of the Moon...

[natasa812]

No traditional planets near... So, maybe the astrologer was talking about that whan analysing my natal and telling me that I have many aspects and many choises and my friends dont... Still studing...