Is suicide likely

[rogue_red]

I am very worried about a man that I love dearly. I think he is depressed and Im really worried hes going to hurt himself. He has already tried once back in May. I asked the question will he harm himself and attatched is the chart and horary data for it. I am really really new to horary, this is only my second chart and to be honest Im f***n terrified of what I see. I dont know if im reading too much into it or just not reading it right but PLEASE PLEASE help me. He wont talk to me and I need to know whether to be worried or not.
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opps i forgot im supposed to have a go interpreting this. I am mars (aries on asc ruled by mars) he is saturn (aquarius on 11th house cup ruled by saturn). Moon is in virgo in 5th house opposing uranus in 11th, the moon is the current situation so moon (emotions, feelings) in virgo (critical worry health) in 5th house could also represent me worrying about him hurting himself.
He is saturn(restriction, limitation, death) in the 6th house(health, illness, misfortune) opposing uranus(sudden changes) in 11(freinds).
Can you see why im so scared!!!
Id appreciate any help at all.

Thanks

[Awakened_Pisces]

Saturn never on it's own applies death. Let's understand Saturn first. Think of him as an upgraded Chiron. He'll teach you lessons, he'll knock you down. And yes, restriction and form of control is Saturn's best friend. But death? Always look for a Saturn-Pluto interaction. Or really, any interaction with Pluto. As well as the activations of the 4th and 8th house. And a heavily afflicted ASC Sign(1st house) in this case for suicide.

The 3rd sign is clearly there. Venus and Pluto both square the Aries ASC.(First house). Clearly Venus is probably you in this case, worried about him(ASC).

Saturn however is highly aspected, trining his MC at this time. It's really more likely he gets a job then he winds up dead. Or if he overcomes his depression he could find himself with bonuses for overcoming this god-given challenge.

Both Moon and the Saturn square-opposite Uranus. The Saturn-Uranus opposition as you should well know, is a worldwide transit. So to an extent you should forget about it. But also. The world we live in revolves around us human beings. So it should be somewhat accounted for. And Saturn-Uranus opposition generally tries to structure in your feelings. It mulitplies the power of Saturn, who is trying to defeat Uranus. This is heavily empathized with the Moon-Opposite Uranus. Moon=Emotions. So right now, your boyfriend/husband(you said love, but not sure how high is the love). Is dealing with a double whammy. With the Moon-Uranus-Saturn interactions. That and his ASC interactions. There's clearly a rise in powerful emotions. And a good deal cause of concern.

Don't let this concern control your life at the time of Saturn's increase in strength. Instead, turn this concern into a strengthened love for your lover! And that love, I am confident will give your lover the structure he needs at this emotional time to deal with the changes and his own worries. Then he can start reaping the benefits of Saturn-Trine MC. I wish I had that transit :).

[rogue_red]

Thankyou pisces. This man is very very dear to me. We dated once but the timing was no good. We have an unusually powerful connection (both sexual and spiritually). He is responsible for healing a huge chiron wound I had, he was the catalyst for a life altering journey for which i am eternally grateful to him. He saved my life, now i wish to do the same for him.
Two days ago he had a run in at his work with some co-workers. Last time he tried to kill himself it was because after taking a two week holiday he returned to work to find his position had been given to someone else and he was given a position he doesnt like.
I so wish he would talk to me. The only reason he didnt die last time is because he was found by someone. He never told anyone what he was feeling, it was no call for attention, he meant to do it.
He is far too precious a soul to be lost.

There are some things I need to know as far as this chart is concerned. Is he saturn as we are friends now, even though we love each other dearly we are not in a relationship so using 7th house cusp for him isnt appropriate (yes/no).
Is suicide classed as an eighth house issue? If so do I need to count his 8th house (as in 8 houses from 11th) to find the house concern with his death? What house deals with self harm? is it the same as death or would it be a sixth house thing.
I appreciate any and all help with this.

[Awakened_Pisces]

I apologize. I guess Satuirn-trining or in any way aspecting the MC(Career) could be a good or a bad thing. I understand how you feel. There is someone who I've met about 6 years ago. And she too, filled the hole that Chiron had left. And quite frankly, I cannot wait to clear up some misunderstandings. If only to get a deep gulit out of my heart. You are right about feeling the way you feel. And perhaps this is a call for you to go to him. To save him, as he saved you.

[Awakened_Pisces]

8th house is natally ruled by Scorpio. So some people do use it as a house of death. But just because you have a badly aspected 8th house doesn't mean you're going to die anytime soon :P. It could(and 9/10 times out of your life it does) mean mental transformation and a higher being. A heavily aspected 8th house(For me, Uranus is inside the 8th). Could mean a sexual transformation or a slide into the Occult(Uranus was conjunct the 8th house sun when I started astrology)

If it's a temporary relationship, you should use the Fifth House. The 11/5 axis is a special axis revolving around friendships and crushes and things like that.

It really depends on his sign and where it's located in this chart. And in this case, he is an Aries. Aries ruler is Mars. Right now, like myself, he has a 7th house stellium consisting of Mars, Sun, Mercury. Interesting enough. Sun is squaring Neptune. At this moment. Your lover is feeling ill-confident. He can't assert himself in the way that he wants to. But I believe that Astrology truly only tells half the story. Hence, you can't really rely on it. What you have to do, is to be who you are. And to support your lover the best way you can. Even if you aren't dating now, you still love him, right? So then, chase him. Because he needs you, as much as you need him.

[rogue_red]

When we first met he was married and even tho we were just friends I ended the friendship when it became apparent that we had a very powerful connection. I told him I didnt want to be responsible for breaking up his marriage and that if the marriage were to fail of its own accord then he could come find me. I didnt see him for 15 months after which he called and said that he had left his wife some 6 months earlier. We dated for a few months but I ended it when he wouldnt commit to even the most basic relationship. Hence when I said the timing just wasnt right.
Im not normally given to terms such as soulmate, fate or the likes but there is something so beyond my realm of understanding when it comes to his effect on my life.
I havent had the smoothest life. Sexually abused from the age of 6. By the time I was fourteen I had been abused by three different people, lost my virginity to rape at 17, raped and beaten 6 months later, drugged and gang raped a year after that. It was because of these events that I had developed the belief that I wasnt like other people, I believed that my sole purpose in life was to make others complete, almost like being an artificial limb. I felt completely powerless but it was ok because in all honesty, I didnt know that this sort of thing didnt happen to everyone. For me it was normal. I didnt believe that I was loveable or that anyone would or could see me as a whole person. My marriage to a psychologically abusive man was a natural progression and by the time my marriage was over I was extremely depressed, cutting myself and so socially phobic that I wouldnt even open my mail or answer the phone. I was a wreck. Then I met 'him'.
When I met this man his friendship and unconditional love awoke in me a new woman. When he would take me in his arms and hold me so close I felt so safe, so loved. Every kiss wiped away a thousand tears, every embrace erased a multitude of wounds. He was/is the only male in my entire life who hasnt hurt me. For that I am deeply grateful and will never forget what a beautiful person he is to me.
If he could see inside my heart for just a moment and see the regard I have for him then maybe he would see what I see. A beautiful amazing angel of a man.

[rogue_red]

It really depends on his sign and where it's located in this chart. And in this case, he is an Aries. Aries ruler is Mars. Right now, like myself, he has a 7th house stellium consisting of Mars, Sun, Mercury. Interesting enough. Sun is squaring Neptune. At this moment. Your lover is feeling ill-confident. He can't assert himself in the way that he wants to. But I believe that Astrology truly only tells half the story. Hence, you can't really rely on it. What you have to do, is to be who you are. And to support your lover the best way you can. Even if you aren't dating now, you still love him, right? So then, chase him. Because he needs you, as much as you need him.

His natal sun sign is taurus with sag moon, natally im aries with cap moon.
The problem is that I dont have his new address, just have his cellphone although I do know where he works. If need be I'll drive to his work to talk to him. I love him, completely and utterly. I would give my life to see him happy. I dont need to be in a relationship with him, but I do need for him to be happy.

[lillyjgc]

Rogue Red,
I'm sorry to hear you are worrying.But literally, there is nothing you can do here to effect an outcome. It is not within our power to alter the destiny of another.
It is an important consideration to make before casting the chart.If the answer to this question is *yes*, what can you do? Nothing. So you are looking for a "no' answer to calm your own anxieties, so perhaps it might help to more consider your significator:
Mars is peregrine in *your* eighth house...showing two things, you are thinking he might die and secondly being peregrine, theres nothing you can do (except move on to h9-the Higher Mind, where you might send him healing spiritually).

The moon as always in horary will tell the story.The moon will conjunct Saturn but the most striking aspect in the chart is the exact trine between jupiter and saturn.That is a very helpful aspect.
Personally I'd have used the H7 cusp to represent him.Venus. Accidental dignity in his H4 (his outcome/home).So he is advantaged by being where he is. But venus is in cap, Saturn's sign, so the matters are probably work related and financial.
If we use venus to represent him, (H7 ruler),we see venus is square the asc point (you)...I see this to mean he can't turn to you.The moon is in your fifth, showing your romantic interest in him.It will oppose uranus in 4 somethings and conjunct saturn at 20deg also trining jupiter at the same time..Enough to say he is most unlikely to kill himself.
The moon's last aspect is a sextile to mercury in mars' sign ...news comes to you. A sextile isnt usually negative.
If you use the H11 cusp to represent him, his twelfth house of self undoing would be also ruled by Saturn. The opposition to Uranus is separating (at the time you have asked this question), so that refers to his previous attempt.The trine (exact) between jupiter and Saturn should ensure his safety.
If we take Mars as you and venus as him, there are no applying aspects which leads me to believe the whole issue belongs in the past. If we take you as Mars and he as Saturn, again no applying aspects.Your ruler is in *your* eighth house, the past, powerless to change anything at the moment.
So no matter how you look at it, its probably best to send him love and light on the spiritual plane and learn the lessons of acceptance of what we cannot change.
Love and light to you too.
Lillyjgc

[Awakened_Pisces]

Ah, Lilly thanks for catching those facts. This is proof of another historic proof truth: That with age, comes with wisdom. The more experienced astrologer, teaching the younger one a thing or two about astrology. Thanks alot :).

[starlink]

Hi CP, I also think, just like Lilly that he wont do himself harm. He indeed has thought about it in the past. I also use the 7th for him by the way. Moon, his 8th house ruler is past the trine to Venus (him), telling us NO.
And Lilly is right. I was about to write the exact same thing as she did :there is nothing you can do here to effect an outcome. It is not within our power to alter the destiny of another.
and then saw she already wrote that.

Should we take the 11th house, then his 8th house will be ruled by Mercury.
Mercury who also has passed the sextile (opportunity to do so) with Saturn. Moreover, Mercury is very weak in the 8th and also combust, therefore cannot do much harm. Saturn also passed the opposition to Uranus, it is an outgoing aspect, so you better start by not worrying so much (seen by combust Mars also in 8!, but outgoing, showing that you will get better).

Cheers, Starlink

[lillyjgc]

Thankyou for that Confusedp.
I'm not very experienced at horary-but one thing I have found-keep it simple. Using the 11th for him makes looking at the turned houses a bit more complicated.The seventh cusp usually works when we use it to represent *other*-whether it be friend or foe. The only exception really for me is when we ask about our blood relatives...I'd use H3 for sibling, h5 for child etc..
In this case H11 is ruled by Sat and H7 by venus *in Saturn's sign* so it comes back to saturn.
I'm interpreting the saturn/uranus opposition to generally mean "letting go of the past", moving on.As the moon will activate Saturn whilst in Virgo I feel Rogue could helpfully contribute to the condition of her friend but from the ninth house.
Cheers, Lillyjgc

[rogue_red]

Thankyou so much lilly.
I dont 'do' powerless very well. Being that I have sun, merc, venus and sat in aries I tend to be a 'do something' kind of person.
I can accept that he and I may never be in a relationship. What we have transcends earthly relationships but accepting that he could be in so much pain as to end his own life is out of the question. I can respect that this is his journey and that he is free to travel it as he may But I just wish I could carry his burden. I will pray for him and hope that he finds his way to me so I can be his soft place to fall.

[rogue_red]

Starlink, lilly and cp, I really appreciate the help. I feel so selfish. I just had a huge cry and felt such relief that I wasnt going to loose him. Sometimes I really hate the way I always make things about me.

[Awakened_Pisces]

This is some non-astrological advice from my own experience: Don't hate yourself. Embrace who you are and make moves towards a bright future. If you keep thinking of the past, you will find yourself trapped in it. And making moves as if the past was the present day reality. It's hard to break free from and you might not even break through it. I might not break through this. My Chart suggests as such. But the least I can do is to prevent others from falling pray to similar problems.

[rogue_red]

This is some non-astrological advice from my own experience: Don't hate yourself. Embrace who you are and make moves towards a bright future. If you keep thinking of the past, you will find yourself trapped in it. And making moves as if the past was the present day reality. It's hard to break free from and you might not even break through it. I might not break through this. My Chart suggests as such. But the least I can do is to prevent others from falling pray to similar problems.

Thanks cp, I dont hate myself, i just get frustrated with some aspects of myself at times.
One of the things I learned during my transformation is that we are a self fulfilling prophecy. If we think we are stupid, useless or a loser then that is exactly what we will become. So I changed the way I thought of myself. I dont typically cling to the past nor do I typically worry, if there is a problem i fix it, im a doer. Im not a prisoner of my past anymore, i live each day for what it is, trying to use my energies wisely.
I do appreciate your support. I cant believe you are younger than my daughter and so wise for your years.;)