Is black magic involved here?

[cathywh]

I have a curious question. I do not even know I should believe in black magic or not, but I come from a community which believes in it. My friend (romantic interest) is going through hell of a time in his life and some one suggested black magic is used against him.

So my question drills down to yes or no and if yes, who is doing it.

I am not sure what will be significators here as I am asking this question. Do we still take Sun (4H) for him?

8H and 12H for mysterious powers or someone doing mischief or acts of secret enemies?

8H ruled by Pisces - so Jupiter / Neptune represents this question?
Jup (5H) Sext Sun - looks good
Nept (7H) Sq Sun - looks bad
There is also Uranus in this house Sext Sun. But what does all this mean?

12H is empty ruled by Cancer - so Moon (10H in Gem) also represents question?
Moon Sq Sun - looks bad

I am not sure if it is yes or no.

[cassanra]

This is an interesting horary. I will give you my opinion and tell you why. Though neptune is not a traditional ruler when it sits so nicely in partile conjunction with the dsc and also partile square the sun me thinks it has something to say. Sun would rule the querant and neptune is descriptive of mystics, hidden things and imagination. Sitting on her partners house cusp this is our first 'no'
The moon and sun in a full moon status tells us that, if we use the Anthony Louis test, it might be true if the ruler of the house that the full moon is in is on an angle...venus is in the 5th so " no" 2 This might be suspect as it is a separating aspect. The last aspect it appears is with its opposition to mars...conflict to the 9th and 4th house ruler end of matter. This may indicated job losses due to conflict thus separation. Not occult or curse.
The moon would rule the 12th house and I would go there for hidden enemies, secrets, hidden forces, the black arts....now that might not be right and there have been discussions of a similar vein else where but I would not use the 9th:) Again, the ruler of the 12th is in separation from the querant and this is the 3rd 'no'
I debated on the 8th vs 12th until I found a note in Anthony Louis book in which the 12 th house correspondence has "witch' listed. Now this all could be debatable. If we use the 8th and its ruler jupiter it does create a trine to saturn from the fifth of romance, pleasure, which does not make sense to me....an old girlfriend has put a curse on him? In that case it would be yes.
Lets go back to the moon....if we follow the moons course as it is at 1 degree, it has just changed signs, we have a long range of things that will come to pass and it appears the principle characters again are saturn and jupiter which it will square from the 10th house. I think this is another indication of a "no" but I am not sure on this. It might be more a descriptor of what is happening with his job.

[cassanra]

Oh I just read your other thread. So your doing the cursing? That would explain the venus square saturn and jupiter square saturn. Do you really want to cause someone you love ill will?

[Culpeper]

Since you are asking on behalf of your friend, the chart should be turned. The 11th house ruled by Gemini and Mercury signify your friend. Mercury, the planetary significator, is in the 6th house from the 11th and going to combustion. This shows the harsh difficulties of your friend. William Lilly gives possible delineations for spells on page 464 of Christian Astrology but none of those apply in this chart.

If an astrologer had your friends birth chart and progressed it, the planetary indicators of his present situation would appear. Then an astrological solution could be suggested. This would involve electional astrology.

[cathywh]

Thanks for looking into it.

I am not cursing him to cause ill will but out of my own anguish and I do it on his face, no black magic. More like cry my heart out.

So who can it be? Me? I am not yet his old GF though I intend to move on we are still attached to each other :(

I did not do any black magic, I did curse him couple times and I am really worried when he went through so much of pain. So want to help him out, I am not sure now if my curses caused anything.

[natasa812]

Since you are asking on behalf of your friend, the chart should be turned. The 11th house ruled by Gemini and Mercury signify your friend. Mercury, the planetary significator, is in the 6th house from the 11th and going to combustion. This shows the harsh difficulties of your friend. William Lilly gives possible delineations for spells on page 464 of Christian Astrology but none of those apply in this chart.
Yes, the Mercury is in his 6o but I wonder if the Mercury (he) is burned by the Sun which is less then 8 degrees far away from the Sun. And if he is, who is the Sun? I dont know how to look on ``black magic`` things, but his 8o has the ``good luck`` Fort. Vertex and also a Chiron - he is soppose to be hurt at this time and ``without any luck``. This is far as I can tell - I dont know much about astrology. The Moon - the ``outcome`` is also in his 12o - mystery so, are there other things to come and see... (Moon on the 1o degree)?

[cathywh]

So nothing here? I have suggested him to go and consult a mystic also but he is not doing it. I do not know, what is the point of having suspicion when you not do anything to clear it.

May be he is going through some harsh transits and nothing much in 'black magic'. May be some ill will gathered doing hurtful things to others too.

It may be good idea to put up his chart with transits and progressions?

[archergirl]

I would suggest you please read the forum rules again, cathywh. You can't just post someone else's natal details without their permission.

Maybe you should just relax about the whole thing for awhile.

AG:)

[cathywh]

Ofcourse, it is with their permission.

Anyhow, I am leaving the topic. Thanks for all contributions.

[cathywh]

This is an interesting horary. I will give you my opinion and tell you why. Though neptune is not a traditional ruler when it sits so nicely in partile conjunction with the dsc and also partile square the sun me thinks it has something to say. Sun would rule the querant and neptune is descriptive of mystics, hidden things and imagination. Sitting on her partners house cusp this is our first 'no'
The moon and sun in a full moon status tells us that, if we use the Anthony Louis test, it might be true if the ruler of the house that the full moon is in is on an angle...venus is in the 5th so " no" 2 This might be suspect as it is a separating aspect. The last aspect it appears is with its opposition to mars...conflict to the 9th and 4th house ruler end of matter. This may indicated job losses due to conflict thus separation. Not occult or curse.
The moon would rule the 12th house and I would go there for hidden enemies, secrets, hidden forces, the black arts....now that might not be right and there have been discussions of a similar vein else where but I would not use the 9th:) Again, the ruler of the 12th is in separation from the querant and this is the 3rd 'no'
I debated on the 8th vs 12th until I found a note in Anthony Louis book in which the 12 th house correspondence has "witch' listed. Now this all could be debatable. If we use the 8th and its ruler jupiter it does create a trine to saturn from the fifth of romance, pleasure, which does not make sense to me....an old girlfriend has put a curse on him? In that case it would be yes.
Lets go back to the moon....if we follow the moons course as it is at 1 degree, it has just changed signs, we have a long range of things that will come to pass and it appears the principle characters again are saturn and jupiter which it will square from the 10th house. I think this is another indication of a "no" but I am not sure on this. It might be more a descriptor of what is happening with his job.

Hey I have just come across some interesting reading in a blog about casting spells or witch craft. Not to reopen this question but thought I would share with you.

http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/2007/02/23/free-astrology-readings-horary-question-does-he-really-want-a-divorce/

""One of the classic signs that somebody has been bewitched is when the 12th house and the first house are ruled by the same planet.""


At least in this question, I am the querant and 7H represents the guy I was asking about, which becomes his 1H ruled by Saturn (Aqua), his 12H is also ruled by Saturn again (Cap).

I could not interpret farther than this - Saturn is in his 8H trining Jupiter and Squaring Venus in his 12H - who can it be? Venus in 12H is again pointing to his secret sweet heart - me? :D

I wish I could bewitch him but I do not know how.

[SagiCap]

""One of the classic signs that somebody has been bewitched is when the 12th house and the first house are ruled by the same planet.""


Great. My natal 1st H is Aquarius and my 12th is Capricorn. Now what?

[dr. farr]

By way of clarification, the same planet as lord of the asc and 12th as potentially indicating "something unnatural" involved, applies to decumbiture or medical horaries, when attempting to discern the nature or background of causes involved in the case of imbalance presenting (see, for example, Blagrave, "Astrological Practice of Physick"; also mentioned in Lily), or occasionally in a katarchic (event) chart, again to determine if some unnatural influence could be operative in the event (it does not apply to natal, and rarely to horary if the question is not connected with health or relationship matters); another indication of potential unnatural influence in decumbiture, medical horary or (perhaps) event charts, is when the lord of the 12th house is posited in the first house (particularly so if very close to the ascedant degree)

However, this unnatural influence does not necessarily mean black magic or harmful witchcraft; it can mean ANY kind of unnatural influence, including a highly artificial style of living, drug use, possibly the effects of synthetic drugs, also certain physical/mental/sexuall excesses which put an unnatural strain upon the mind and body, etc.

(Note that I accept, definitely, the possibilities of so-called "supernatural" causes affecting mind and body, and also sometimes behind events as well; I am only calling attention here to the fact that all varieties of unnatural influences might be indicated by the astrological factors mentioned above)

[juicey J.]

No, they said it was their friend and romantic interest so the 7th would be turned to the first not the 11th house. Also, if you ask a question with their expressed permission you use the 1st as its as good as said person asking the questiion (no different then when an astrologer does a horary for a client).

[Cold Fusion]

The Sun is conjunct the Church of Satans Neptune, so probably.