is BO lying about his birth place?

[tikana]

Hi all

okay here is the chart

http://www.geocities.com/tikana4/lies.gif

Jupiter rules him
his 3rd house is venus 23 sag
I could say yes there was def bs ... moon/venus sextiled.
plus moon/merc trine...

any guesses?

T

[fensi88]

Very possible!
First, his ruler in fall, means he is not honest person (regarding question)=false
All angles in mutable signs-false
Moon VOC=false
Moon in cadent house=false
Moon in fix sign=true
lord of Moon in mutable sign=false
lord of Moon in angular house=true
Ve ruler of 3 in angular house=true
Ve ruler of 3 in mutable sign=false
6:3 for false

[tikana]

Very possible!
First, his ruler in fall, means he is not honest person (regarding question)=false
All angles in mutable signs-false
Moon VOC=false
Moon in cadent house=false
Moon in fix sign=true
lord of Moon in mutable sign=false
lord of Moon in angular house=true
5:2 for false

Thumbs up!

good job, Goca!

T

[RayAustin]

Thumbs up!

good job, Goca!

T

Hm.. interesting. Would love to see others' input. :)

[LionKing]

Of course Kenya-Obama is not an American. Everyone knows his birth certificate is a fake. But everyone will keep promoting him with acculades and forget that he isn't legally qualified because he is not American born. It isn't because of his mother's mistake, and of course his father is an African born nationality. Barak was born in Kenya. I'm just waiting for someone to admit it and protest it. V/r LionKing

[archergirl]

Of course, John McCain was born in Panama, so he's not 'American' either.;) I guess we're all S.O.L.

And does it really matter? I mean, really? Or is it just an excuse to be angry about something you didn't want to happen?;)

AG:)

[Vista]

Of course, John McCain was born in Panama, so he's not 'American' either.;) I guess we're all S.O.L.

And does it really matter? I mean, really? Or is it just an excuse to be angry about something you didn't want to happen?;)

AG:)
Yes it does matter because the United States Constitution(14th Amendment) says it matters! Barack was born in Mombasa, Kenya and he should be held to the same laws as everyone else. Someone who uses deceptive means to an end is a liar in my book. His refusal to release ANY records(birth, health, school, etc) other than some bogus birth certificates floating around the internet is hiding something. If you have nothing to hide why the refusal to comply?

As far as McCain is concerned; he is within "the law" because:

(a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

(b) Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

There are numerous lawsuits pending or in the process of being filed in regards to Barack Obama's birth certificate. Maybe we will see something, maybe we won't. Of course we cannot count on the media exposing any of it as they have become an advocacy group for Barack.

I will say this, if you know anything about astrology and I think we all do, it's very clear that the United is heading for a depression(or severe recession), which speaks loudly to what the next President of the United States will actually be able to accomplish while in office. Higher/more taxes is not the answer and that is what the majority of his proposed policies encompass. :(

Vista

[archergirl]

I'll back out of this argument right here and now. It just isn't worth my time.

AG:)

[starlink]

Listen guys, do you really think that the American government, CIA and God knows what other "checking up" devices they have are so stupid as not to have figured this one out? There are enough people up there who would have loved NOT to see a black man become president and would have come immediately with the evidence to prove that he is not an American. Fact is, they have not. Americans should be glad to have found a solid man to do the dirty work for them. And all this jazz about taxes yes or no. Ever heard of "soft healing methods make stinking wounds? Higher taxes hurt, but will do the healing job.

[tikana]

Of course, John McCain was born in Panama, so he's not 'American' either.;) I guess we're all S.O.L.

And does it really matter? I mean, really? Or is it just an excuse to be angry about something you didn't want to happen?;)

AG:)

Archer

The dude was born on army base.. that makes him US born ...

Starlink

dunnoo.. i have my suspecions.... it is nothing to do with race... He was connected to mobs, terrorist cell, had shady real estate transactions//
someone always profits from elections...

let's go back to a chart!

Tik

[tikana]

Correction, Starlink

McCain was asked to provide his birthcertificate.. he didnt object
Obama on other hand, has not provided the original birth certificate..

Shady VERY shady!

Vince Foster, Hillary's friend/ally, who was found dead from self-inflicted gun shot .... they said that he committed suicide but too many things happened that makes 1 wonder..
and if you guys are saying that there is no cover up? the creepiest thing is feds brush off a lot of cases aside or they just want to convict someone and be done with it..

I persoanlly know 1 case that should have been investigated much much deeper and it wasnt.. FBI should have questioned me because I was in the middle of it.. I knew too much about the case. They never did.. YES case was big ... close to 90 million of dollars vanished in a thin air...

cheers
T

[Vista]

Listen guys, do you really think that the American government, CIA and God knows what other "checking up" devices they have are so stupid as not to have figured this one out? There are enough people up there who would have loved NOT to see a black man become president and would have come immediately with the evidence to prove that he is not an American. Fact is, they have not. Americans should be glad to have found a solid man to do the dirty work for them. And all this jazz about taxes yes or no. Ever heard of "soft healing methods make stinking wounds? Higher taxes hurt, but will do the healing job.
Hi Starlink,
I am not meaning this in a bad way because I respect you very much, :D
but I am curious why you think he is so solid? I am unconcerned about is color, it's all the lies he has told to get where he is. He is also unpatriotic. He associates with a known terrorist of the Weatherman group who had no remorse for blowing up innocent people! What about his shady real estate deals with Aryes? He's also hired as his financial advisers three men who helped bring down Wall street. Why would he do that? He also refuses to wear a flag pin and place his hand over his heart during the National Anthem, anther thing that he lied about until the video surfaced all over the internet. He has written in his own book that "if the winds shift he will stand with the Muslims." What does that mean??? With 10% of Muslims = 200 million - 2/3's of the number of American's being the radical jihad branch who want to annihilate Western civilization, that's concerning to me as an American citizen. He went to a school who teaches this branch from age 6-10, which he tried to lie about as well. Where is his true allegiance? Africa or America? Again, he writes some very poignant remarks in his books about his feelings about the white race and identifying more with his African father who basically had nothing to do with him. I am not saying there are not very decent, law abiding Muslims who want peace, but at the end of the day they don't matter because if they speak out they will be targeted and likely killed. It's happening everyday. What's more, why does Barack say he was born in one hospital in Hawaii, his sister states another, and his own grandmother states he was born in Mombasa, Kenya? Don't they know??? Oh, lets not forget the "lovely" anti American, anti White Reverend Wright who Barack Obama claims he's attended his church for 20 years, yet is not impacted by what he preaches. REALLY? How is that possible? Please tell me how someone who has lied so much about the above things, as well as about 50 other things should be someone we trust as our President? His chart even has indications that he could be a liar!! Liars are not solid people.

And no quite honestly I don't believe the FBI, CIA, or government would necessarily expose his birth data at all. It depends who's fingers are being greased with money or who is being threatened. As Tikana said, look at Vince Foster and about 50 other "suicides" and "mysterious" deaths of workers and associates of the Clinton's. We really don't know. You can certainly count on there being something in it for them. Heck, look at all the other murders and assassinations of public figures over the last century that have been covered up or pinned on someone else. There are no boundaries of the absolute corruption this government of ours will perpetrate. It's very scary.

Look at the upcoming transits to the US chart to see what kind of job he will do. It certainly paints a bleak picture for us. I think he is going to have a very rude awakening of what this job really entails for such an relatively inexperience young man. I am kind of doubtful he is going to make much impact as we are in such a spiral downward as a country. Even so, I hope the transits are wrong and he does pull through to do a good job.

As far as hire taxes...well I am not for it. I pay a ridiculous amount right now and cannot afford to pay more. This redistribution of the wealth mentality makes for an apathetic, unmotivated population of people who expect something for nothing. In other words, why work hard if it's going to be taken away from me and given to someone else?

Vista

[archergirl]

I am actually going to move this ranting to the Chat section. If you decide to focus on the astrology, I'll move it back.:p

Vista: you clearly haven't lived in a socialist country...have you even travelled to one? You have no idea what higher taxes can do to improve your life and the lives of those around you. It sounds counter-intuitive, but trust me: I've lived in both worlds. I've done social work in both worlds. I've used the medical system in both worlds. Give me higher taxes and a socialist government any day. Free market capitalism and libertarianism are for the utterly selfish and the filthy rich. The rest of us poor sods need the extra help.

AG:)

[starlink]

Moon VOC=false Does it not mean "Nothing" , no, nada, niente, nein and ñyet. Truth in horary is ruled by Jupiter. Ruler of O. is Jupiter, so they are one and the same: O=truth.
You see, we can also look at it from this point of view. I think we are all biased. How about that warning Saturn in the 1st?

[starlink]

Oh Vista, please, dont believe everything that is said and written. You must know how some people try to put others in the worst light possible when they dont like him.

[Jenna Jupiter]

Correction, Starlink

McCain was asked to provide his birthcertificate.. he didnt object
Obama on other hand, has not provided the original birth certificate..

Shady VERY shady!


cheers
T

This is true.
Like Obama's opinons more (the ones i heard) but i have to agree.
I have no problems with black people but i do think he is making a big thing about it so he get more black voters. Correct me if i'm wrong but the only black in his family was the father who left him? Or so i heard. :)

/JJ

[tikana]

Vista

i woul suggest you to get out of the US for a couple of years and go see the world. you sit here and talk basically NON-sense about taxes..

if the taxes are higher and social programs are there, I am moving to that country!... the downfall of socialism and europe, you cant really move around much... a lot less opportunities than in the US. you have a lot more chances to become a milionaire in america than in europe. Here is my favorite ... Los Angeles alone has more people than in entire country of Finland!

in europe people get 3-4 weeks vacations and complain! how many weeks do we get ? 2 at best!

adios muchachos
T




"As far as hire taxes...well I am not for it. I pay a ridiculous amount right now and cannot afford to pay more. This redistribution of the wealth mentality makes for an apathetic, unmotivated population of people who expect something for nothing. In other words, why work hard if it's going to be taken away from me and given to someone else?

Vista[/quote]

[Vista]

Vista

i woul suggest you to get out of the US for a couple of years and go see the world. you sit here and talk basically NON-sense about taxes..

if the taxes are higher and social programs are there, I am moving to that country!... the downfall of socialism and europe, you cant really move around much... a lot less opportunities than in the US. you have a lot more chances to become a milionaire in america than in europe. Here is my favorite ... Los Angeles alone has more people than in entire country of Finland!

in europe people get 3-4 weeks vacations and complain! how many weeks do we get ? 2 at best!

adios muchachos
T




"As far as hire taxes...well I am not for it. I pay a ridiculous amount right now and cannot afford to pay more. This redistribution of the wealth mentality makes for an apathetic, unmotivated population of people who expect something for nothing. In other words, why work hard if it's going to be taken away from me and given to someone else?

Vista[/quote]

The only "nonsense" here is your comment about higher taxes and my needing to get out and travel the world! What makes you think I haven't? Have you? It sure doesn't sound like it. I would suggest you take your own advice and do a little more traveling of your own, or go live in a socialist country if you think social programs are so great. Although it's obvious that you don't think it's that great as you just outline in your own words some of the problems of living in these countries! Personally, I have been to 67 countries throughout Europe and Central/South America with more recently returning from a second trip to Ukraine, Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, Egypt, Turkey, and Israel. I was also in the Peace Corps when I was younger and worked in community development and youth outreach in Central America. Moreover, during my travels I have spoken to many people who live in socialist countries and have read a great deal about it so i think I have a pretty good understanding of what it's about. I have heard countless times of how there is "free health care" at a cost equaling $200-300 per month United States dollars, but in order to get "really good care" you have to pay the doctors extra money. What's more, you are responsible for paying for all your drugs both inside and outside the hospital out of your pocket. That's anesthesia, IV drips, antibiotics, etc. In addition, after a certain age elderly are not taken care of(lets hope they have family) and homeless will not be admitted to the hospitals. It's terrible. The housing situation is really bad too and many times entire families must live one room. I am not talking about third world countries here either. As far as free education it's there, but if you want to go to the "good schools" you must pay more out of your pocket. They pay 50% of their income for this! The government discourages working longer hours or extra days by taxing people's income above the 50% to the extent that it isn't worth it to try and make a little extra money. Imagine discouraging people from working hard to get ahead? I have relatives who live in Canada(socialized medicine again) who come to America whenever they need something more serious looked at. My aunt had a tumor in her leg and it took 8 months to get in to see a doctor! By then it had really metastasized! She came to America to have treatment. She fines now thankfully. I happen to be in the medical industry myself and have spoken at length with many physicians about socialized medicine, some of who have come from Canada. It's much better here.
The socialist countries who are doing better are the ones who's governments are allowing more industry and capitalism into the country. Again, that is coming from the people I have met along the way in my travels. The more the government controls the worse off people are.
Ciao,
Vista

[Vista]

I am actually going to move this ranting to the Chat section. If you decide to focus on the astrology, I'll move it back.:p

Vista: you clearly haven't lived in a socialist country...have you even travelled to one? You have no idea what higher taxes can do to improve your life and the lives of those around you. It sounds counter-intuitive, but trust me: I've lived in both worlds. I've done social work in both worlds. I've used the medical system in both worlds. Give me higher taxes and a socialist government any day. Free market capitalism and libertarianism are for the utterly selfish and the filthy rich. The rest of us poor sods need the extra help.

AG:)
AG, I thought you weren't going to comment on this because "it just was not worth your time??" ;) LOL!
No, I haven't lived in socialist country and of course you can guess that I would never want to. I don't agree that free market capitalism and libertarianism and for the utterly selfish and filthy rich. I'm not rich but I believe in working hard and don't expect to be taken care of by handouts from the government. I also believe that Socialism is one step away from Communism, which I think you will agree would be terrible to live with? I also believe that some socialist countries are worse off than others. Perhaps you have been fortunate enough to live in some that are a little better? As I stated to Tikana, I have traveled and spoken to many people in socialist countries(dated a guy from Holland) and have formed my own opinion. I don't like it. I don't like the idea of becoming a "Nanny State" and my rights and privileges slowly being taken away from me. I don't believe people should be allowed to live on welfare their entire lives as long as they keep popping babies out. There is something wrong with that. I don't believe in affirmative action either. I think people should be hired on their merit and qualifications alone, not because they are of a certain race or gender. I don't' like social security being given to people who have never worked in this country and are here illegally. I don't like it that my poor, sweet neighbor who lost her job who was denied food stamps, yet a person who came to the US illegally or someone who hasn't worked a day in their lives can get them. I don't like that they were trying to pass a bill that would require people who make over a certain amount per year(don't recall the amount) pay for child care for everyone. What nonsense! Take care of your own kids! I don't' like it that because I make a little more money than my neighbor, that I have to pay a hire percentage of taxes. Why? Why should I be punished because I am doing a little better? It should be one tax rate for everyone. I would be willing to pay hire taxes on consumer goods as well too. This would make it more fair for everyone. I am not rich or even do I consider myself to make a great living, yet my tax bracket certainly says otherwise. These are all programs that were implemented by socialist minded Democrats.

Lastly, I don't believe in punishing people who make a lot of money, or what Barack considers a lot of money, over $150,000 per year. Remember, many of these people employ other people via small businesses. You hurt them and they are forced to lay off, you hurt the economy too.

I think if our Congress had to pay social security and for their own health care, as well as having had all their little perks taken away such as chartered planes or first class tickets to get to work 3 days a week, sleeping at 5 star hotels and eating at 5 stars restaurants and all the other expensive privileges they get at tax payer expense they wouldn't be so willing to give our money away for all their little pork spending. Continuously increasing our taxes is not the answer to our problems. Besides the war, in addition lets look to the government and their frivolous spending habits and see what we find. Probably billions in extra surplus of money. Also, why do we give 700 billion dollars a year to countries who hate us? Explain that one to me?

Even so, I am hopeful(albeit skeptical) that Barack is earnest and will do a decent job, but I think he needs to look to the government and it's own spending habits first before increasing taxes on the people.
Vista

[tikana]

Vista

GOING & LIVING are 2 different things

FYI, I lived in 3 countries so far... 14 in one, 3 in another, 13 in the states

2 continents

traveled to : Ireland, Canada, Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Germany, Poland, Belorus, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Lithvinia, Latvia, Canada, Mexico.
In Russia i went as far as Vladivostok and Archegelsk.


Regards
T



The only "nonsense" here is your comment about higher taxes and my needing to get out and travel the world! What makes you think I haven't? Have you? It sure doesn't sound like it. I would suggest you take your own advice and do a little more traveling of your own, or go live in a socialist country if you think social programs are so great. Although it's obvious that you don't think it's that great as you just outline in your own words some of the problems of living in these countries! Personally, I have been to 67 countries throughout Europe and Central/South America with more recently returning from a second trip to Ukraine, Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, Egypt, Turkey, and Israel. I was also in the Peace Corps when I was younger and worked in community development and youth outreach in Central America. Moreover, during my travels I have spoken to many people who live in socialist countries and have read a great deal about it so i think I have a pretty good understanding of what it's about. I have heard countless times of how there is "free health care" at a cost equaling $200-300 per month United States dollars, but in order to get "really good care" you have to pay the doctors extra money. What's more, you are responsible for paying for all your drugs both inside and outside the hospital out of your pocket. That's anesthesia, IV drips, antibiotics, etc. In addition, after a certain age elderly are not taken care of(lets hope they have family) and homeless will not be admitted to the hospitals. It's terrible. The housing situation is really bad too and many times entire families must live one room. I am not talking about third world countries here either. As far as free education it's there, but if you want to go to the "good schools" you must pay more out of your pocket. They pay 50% of their income for this! The government discourages working longer hours or extra days by taxing people's income above the 50% to the extent that it isn't worth it to try and make a little extra money. Imagine discouraging people from working hard to get ahead? I have relatives who live in Canada(socialized medicine again) who come to America whenever they need something more serious looked at. My aunt had a tumor in her leg and it took 8 months to get in to see a doctor! By then it had really metastasized! She came to America to have treatment. She fines now thankfully. I happen to be in the medical industry myself and have spoken at length with many physicians about socialized medicine, some of who have come from Canada. It's much better here.
The socialist countries who are doing better are the ones who's governments are allowing more industry and capitalism into the country. Again, that is coming from the people I have met along the way in my travels. The more the government controls the worse off people are.
Ciao,
Vista

[Vista]

Tikana,
I respect that you have lived in other countries, however, my opinion is something I am entitled to, right? ;)
I am merely saying that in "my experience" with what I have learned about socialism, along with countless others who I have spoken to along the way in the socialistic countries I have traveled to, do not like many, many things about socialism. I agree. Not meaning this in an antagonistic way, but I am curious if you like living in a socialistic country, why do you choose to live in the United States now?

BTW, I have been to all the countries you listed except Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia. Absolutely loved Czechoslovakia, Estonia, and Ireland. Of course Germany has some beautiful cities too.

Ok, I am waving the "White Flag" and calling a truce. I don't think any of us will be changing our minds about our beliefs, so I will refrain from anymore comments about capitalism verses socialism. Have a good weekend.

Ciao for now,
Vista

Vista

GOING & LIVING are 2 different things

FYI, I lived in 3 countries so far... 14 in one, 3 in another, 13 in the states

2 continents

traveled to : Ireland, Canada, Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Germany, Poland, Belorus, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Lithvinia, Latvia, Canada, Mexico.
In Russia i went as far as Vladivostok and Archegelsk.


Regards
T



The only "nonsense" here is your arrogant comment about higher taxes and my needing to get out and travel the world! What makes you think I haven't? Have you? It sure doesn't sound like it. I would suggest you take your own advice and do a little more traveling of your own, or go live in a socialist country if you think social programs are so great. Although it's obvious that you don't think it's that great as you just outline in your own words some of the problems of living in these countries! Personally, I have been to 67 countries throughout Europe and Central/South America with more recently returning from a second trip to Ukraine, Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, Egypt, Turkey, and Israel. I was also in the Peace Corps when I was younger and worked in community development and youth outreach in Central America. Moreover, during my travels I have spoken to many people who live in socialist countries and have read a great deal about it so i think I have a pretty good understanding of what it's about. I have heard countless times of how there is "free health care" at a cost equaling $200-300 per month United States dollars, but in order to get "really good care" you have to pay the doctors extra money. What's more, you are responsible for paying for all your drugs both inside and outside the hospital out of your pocket. That's anesthesia, IV drips, antibiotics, etc. In addition, after a certain age elderly are not taken care of(lets hope they have family) and homeless will not be admitted to the hospitals. It's terrible. The housing situation is really bad too and many times entire families must live one room. I am not talking about third world countries here either. As far as free education it's there, but if you want to go to the "good schools" you must pay more out of your pocket. They pay 50% of their income for this! The government discourages working longer hours or extra days by taxing people's income above the 50% to the extent that it isn't worth it to try and make a little extra money. Imagine discouraging people from working hard to get ahead? I have relatives who live in Canada(socialized medicine again) who come to America whenever they need something more serious looked at. My aunt had a tumor in her leg and it took 8 months to get in to see a doctor! By then it had really metastasized! She came to America to have treatment. She fines now thankfully. I happen to be in the medical industry myself and have spoken at length with many physicians about socialized medicine, some of who have come from Canada. It's much better here.
The socialist countries who are doing better are the ones who's governments are allowing more industry and capitalism into the country. Again, that is coming from the people I have met along the way in my travels. The more the government controls the worse off people are.
Ciao,
Vista

[starlink]

Ok, I am waving the "White Flag" and calling a truce.

Thank you Vista. Indeed, lets move on ladies!

[Pallas-trine-Mars]

Of course, John McCain was born in Panama, so he's not 'American' either.;) I guess we're all S.O.L.

And does it really matter? I mean, really? Or is it just an excuse to be angry about something you didn't want to happen?;)

AG:) No, he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, a US territory (by that same theory, someone born in Puerto Rico should be allowed to run as well).

August 4, 1961 at 7:24 PM in Honolulu (HI) (USA)

http://www.astrotheme.fr/celebrites/cartes/vY4bq4Dq9Pz7.png

http://www.astrotheme.com/portraits/vY4bq4Dq9Pz7.htm

Tikana, I'm surprised. Don't hate -- congratulate.

Very possible!
First, his ruler in fall, means he is not honest person (regarding question)=false
All angles in mutable signs-false
Moon VOC=false
Moon in cadent house=false
Moon in fix sign=true
lord of Moon in mutable sign=false
lord of Moon in angular house=true
5:2 for falseWrong! Moon hasn't finished sextiling Pluto! True! (Well, modernly true anyway, Pluto does seem to be able to negate the VOC moon)

Does it not mean "Nothing" , no, nada, niente, nein and ñyet. Truth in horary is ruled by Jupiter. Ruler of O. is Jupiter, so they are one and the same: O=truth.
You see, we can also look at it from this point of view. I think we are all biased. How about that warning Saturn in the 1st?Observe the ruler of 12th (secrets) sextiling Jupiter..

[lalalaheidi87]

Coming from an outsider in this argument, I would just like to say that I agree with 100% of the things Tikana said in the above post about socialism. I do not understand how anybody could think its a good thing.

[tikana]

Hi

No, he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, a US territory (by that same theory, someone born in Puerto Rico should be allowed to run as well).

he was a son of an army personell. if he is born on the premises of an ARMY BASE... that makes the hospital and the ground technically speaking American mainland territory. nothing to do with the actual territory as land and etc.. it is like this.. if you are in the territory of american embassy or any other embassies in any country, you are technically speaking in the territory of the country of the embassy. makes sense?



Tikana, I'm surprised. Don't hate -- congratulate.
Gays should have all the rights as everyone else. that is just my take on


Wrong! Moon hasn't finished sextiling Pluto! True! (Well, modernly true anyway, Pluto does seem to be able to negate the VOC moon)

*** you could interpret moon as nothing you can do about in the future..***



T

[Georgem]

Tikana

Thanks for the chart and I had been away all day and am really happy to see all the conversation. However I really expected it to move more towards chart interpretation than politics. Several tools seem to be available to us to help unravel the mystery. Would it be possible to duplicate his chart from the Mombasa Kenya location as well? if so, could we then progress them until we see when he is married. As I remember marriage should be rather obvious in a progressed chart and see which chart matches up for that major milestone. Then look for his daughter's birthdates and see which chart synchronizes with those events. From those 3 events it should be possible to see which chart matches his true history.

Thanks

[AquariusT]

Of course, John McCain was born in Panama, so he's not 'American' either.;) I guess we're all S.O.L.

And does it really matter? I mean, really? Or is it just an excuse to be angry about something you didn't want to happen?;)

AG:)


John's parents were both US citizens, so that makes him eligible!

The Constitution says only natural-born U.S. citizens are eligible for the Country's highest office. If he was not born here, he should not be sworn in. Period.

[tikana]

Tikana

Thanks for the chart and I had been away all day and am really happy to see all the conversation. However I really expected it to move more towards chart interpretation than politics. Several tools seem to be available to us to help unravel the mystery. Would it be possible to duplicate his chart from the Mombasa Kenya location as well? if so, could we then progress them until we see when he is married. As I remember marriage should be rather obvious in a progressed chart and see which chart matches up for that major milestone. Then look for his daughter's birthdates and see which chart synchronizes with those events. From those 3 events it should be possible to see which chart matches his true history.

Thanks

George

i would say let's run his chart on marriage date and birth of children on all times avaialble to us and see what sticks!

AquariusT

yeah i know.. if he is indeed breaking a law, he should not be a president.

T

[AquariusT]

Yes. Well his mom was a Sag, and that is all I know about her. Perhaps we can do a chart on if and when it will come out and will he not be sworn in? Is this full moon this week going to bring huge change?

[Shining Ray]

The birth certificate has been on the internet so the chart ahown by Pallas is correct http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html showing he is U.S born, I think if he wasn't born on U.S soil and with all the media attention and snooping reporters it would have been revealed if he was a fraud well by now. I don't think he has been lying, I was reading his astrological report on astrodienst the Vocational and psychological and it said he was a gifted storyteller lol. I think it was Mercury in Leo square Neptune. I thought all politicians lied to some degree :p.

[tikana]

William Lilly about the news
If i found moon in the asce, 10th, 11th, or 3rd house separating by benevolent aspect from any planet and then applying by good aspect to the lord of the 1st - rumor is true
if moon was void the news to be proved of no moment usually vain and valse and soon contradicted
if moon and venus were in square or oppositon without reception and neither casting a good aspect to the degree asce the news was false
Mercury or the planet to whom he or applies being retrograde or afflicted or if either of these two be lord of the ascendant it signifies that the rumour shall vanish to nothing or shall be converted to good If the lord of the ascendant be under the beams of Q the matter is kept secret and few shall ever know the truth <a href="<A href="http://books.google.com/books?id=tRoHAAAAQAAJ&dq=rumors%20horary%20lilly&pg=PA127&ci=100,237,749,252&source=bookclip">An">http://books.google.com/books?id=tRoHAAAAQAAJ&dq=rumors%20horary%20lilly&pg=PA127&ci=100,237,749,252&source=bookclip">An introduction to astrology, rules for the practice of horary astrology [an abstract of Christian astrology] to which are added, numerous emendations, by Zadkiel. With A grammar of astrology, and tables for calculating nativities, by Zadkiel By William Lilly</a>

[tikana]

The birth certificate has been on the internet so the chart ahown by Pallas is correct http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html showing he is U.S born, I think if he wasn't born on U.S soil and with all the media attention and snooping reporters it would have been revealed if he was a fraud well by now. I don't think he has been lying, I was reading his astrological report on astrodienst the Vocational and psychological and it said he was a gifted storyteller lol. I think it was Mercury in Leo square Neptune. I thought all politicians lied to some degree :p.

Yeah that storytelling scares daylights out of me. My issue with him is dont fill people's hopes then it all crashes down.. remember clintons with their gay military stand? what happened after elections?...... http://socialistworker.org/2003-2/460/460_08_Clinton.shtml

T

[Shining Ray]

Yeah that storytelling scares daylights out of me. My issue with him is dont fill people's hopes then it all crashes down.. remember clintons with their gay military stand? what happened after elections?...... http://socialistworker.org/2003-2/460/460_08_Clinton.shtml

T

To be honest I am not a big follower of politics obviously I would be blind not to see all the collective hype surrounding this man, in England we don't get as hyped up were more resevered I think England is ruled under Capricorn but might be wrong. I haven't heard his speeches, but just watched one. Obviously he is very articulate, and gifted in speech. Although I feel it odd the way a lot of people hang there dreams and hopes on to one man, Although rulership in the wrong hands can cause many to suffer through bad decisions. Obama with what I have seen of his chart has Leo/Aquarius the creative (Leo) Vision (Aquarius) but time will tell how he does in his new job, what transits is he under, will have to check this out sometime. Pluto is on a critical degree in Sagittarius, we are slowly moving into a long process of changes in authority (Capricorn). Maybe he is a breath of fresh air at the moment for some people, but he is taking on a big responsibility, I wonder how he really feels about taking it all on. All politicions make the big promises, most of them are never realized.

[archergirl]

I'm not going to get involved in yet another argument about Obama, but I will put forth an example (for Vista, cheers!:)) about why I enjoy living in a country where socialism is the base for much of the country's philosophy.

I live in England. I just moved back here after a year back home in the States. I hated living there. I love living in England. I'll tell you why I love living here, and why I think paying higher taxes has its benefits.

I work in social services, for a department that helps people who are blind and/or deaf to remain independent. We go out and assess people in their homes, see how they're doing, whether they're managing, if they need any help. When they do, we provide it to them, either by providing them with small bits of equipment to help make their everyday living easier (things that help them cook and prevent them from burning themselves as they can't see the kettle, etc.), or we commission services from another department to provide them with rehabilitation training (using a long cane [the "white cane"] to walk to the local shop or wherever. We can even teach them how to cook.

For deaf people we install smoke alarms, doorbell alerts, telephone alerts, all which either vibrate or have flashing lights, so that they know when someone is trying to get ahold of them, and so they don't burn to death because they can't hear the alarm. They get to keep the equipment until they die or until it breaks and they need a replacement.

How much does all of this cost the client? Nothing. Nada. Zip. It comes out of our tax money.

My grandmother died a couple of years ago in the States. She was blind and nearly deaf. She got Medicare and had some good insurance policies but had no social service involvement or equipment to help her; it was a miracle that she didn't burn her house down, and she struggled a lot to read or listen to her talking books. When I think about the equipment I give little old ladies here in England, and how much that equipment could have helped my Gran, I weep. That service just didn't exist in Arizona. When she went into hospital right before she died, her insurance paid for it all. If she had been poor, or less able to save, or less savvy with money, she would have been *******, like the other 42 million Americans who are currently ******* by not being able to afford health insurance. During my year back home, I was one of those 42 million people. With two small kids, it was like anticipating a disaster every single day and praying it didn't happen.

That, for me, is enough of a reason to have a socialist-modelled society (and England is by no means a 'socialist' government, although it is far more so than the US). The purpose is not to punish those who make money by taking it away; the purpose is to make sure that every single person has basic care: free health care and social service involvement when they need it. The purpose is to make sure that EVERYONE has a chance to live a full and independent life, to their best ability.

Lumping socialism into the idea that 'we pay people to stay unemployed and pop out babies' is inelegant, and inaccurate. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but when you consider just how many people are helped in England through 'socialist' services, it's a small price to pay.

Anyway, it's also false to call Obama a socialist. He is very far indeed from a socialist. He is very moderate, so I don't think you can expect a 50% increase in taxes any time soon, Vista. You can hold on to your earnings.

AG;)

[Georgem]

ArcherGirl

In the world there are 2 types of people - givers and takers. Naturally when they balance out everybody is happy. BUT, when the government does not think there are enough givers and they start STEALING to make up the difference and they start deciding on who gets to be a "Taker" that is when you have a problem. I eagerly give generously to my church without regret and I see all the great things they do sending over 50 teams of people a year to do mission projects around the world.

Of course, China is probably closer to how things should work than any other country. It is the law in China that the oldest son has the responsibility of taking care of his parents. If he does not do this then they put the son in jail until he sees things more clearly. We have had many Chinese medical professionals - PhDs and MDs with very lucrative practices in the US and they leave them and their US family here and go back to China to stay with and help their parents.

I know you do good work but if you were honest I think the older people would really like to see their kids and spend this time with their kids. To me it sort of depersonalizes things to hand it off to someone else.

Apparently the social workers in the UK are a lot better than in the US. In the US we have many great plans but only 10-15% of the funding makes it to the recipients. The government has layered dozens of well paid people in between who eat up all the money that should go to the recipient. This is why Churches are 9 times better than government at doing this. About 90-95% of the Church money goes directly to the recipient and most of the work is done by unpaid volunteers.

I will resist communism to the death and Obama is a communist. You can tell by the gleam in his eye he gets when he starts talking about taking our money away from us to do what he wants.

The one good thing Obama will do is reduce the illegal alien problem. After just a few months - no one will want to come here. That will stop it cold.

[archergirl]

I will resist communism to the death and Obama is a communist.

Pfff. That's absurd. He's a reasonably liberal African-American. I think that's the real problem for many people.

I think the older people would really like to see their kids and spend this time with their kids.

Actually, most of the people I see have great kids; but the kids usually have to work, and most of the people I see are doing what they can to remain independent of their kids, as much as possible. Surely you will understand this. In England, at least, you are entitled to get something back from the government, instead of just giving.

It amazes me how many people are against socialism or communism but consider themselves good christians; they 'give' through their churches but refuse to 'give' to the larger populace via taxation: they only want to give to people they judge to be deserving, rather than to everyone. Jesus was the ultimate communist. The problem isn't communism in and of itself; the problem is that most people are too selfish to 'do' communism the right way. It is an ideology for a more advanced species than we dumb, myopic, selfish humans.

AG:)

[tikana]

I cannot agree more ! good ... AG

the idea of communism and socialism is great BUT people are too corrupt..
anyone read Manifesto? I have... amazing stuff but only in theory

GREEED PEOPLE GREEED! Greed kills!

T

[Georgem]

We definitely need to get back to astrology.

[archergirl]

Definitely.:D

[RockFish]

Thanks ArcherGirl for your efforts, but half a century of anti-communist propaganda has made part of the american people unable to approach the matter with objectivity.

I will resist communism to the death and Obama is a communist. You can tell by the gleam in his eye he gets when he starts talking about taking our money away from us to do what he wants.

Bush took you money away to do what he wanted, a trillion dollars spent in a war while your cities are becoming more and more impoverished, and I hardly think he is a communist.

[Awakened_Pisces]

Bush=Facism. Facism=One big patch of failz.

[tikana]

*shudder* okay Confused!

if bush is fascist then i am a ballerina!

ciao!

[Awakened_Pisces]

Fascism is a totalitarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism) nationalist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism) ideology that advocates itself as being a third position (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position) alternative to both capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism) and communism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#cite_note-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#cite_note-1) It seeks to form a mass movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_movement) of militants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant) who are willing to engage in violence against their political opponents and groups or individuals that the movement deems to be enemies.

Does that not describe the Iraq war? It does to a fault. Even Republican Ron Paul said it. The Neo-Cons are turning this Democratic-Republic into a Fascism. Which fits the agenda of the NWO wake up!

[tikana]

*rolls eyes*

no it doesnt...

l8er i cant keep replying to your posts... pardon..

bowing out
T

[Caprising]

If barrack was lying about his birthplace, then maybe he is aware of the fact that there are some evil astrologers out there, who could possibly use the progressions/transits to their advantage, to cause him many difficulties. I believe that Eastern countries leaders never reveal their true birth details, as it leaves one open to "hidden enemies. The fact that Barrack is now the president doesn't nessasarily mean "great change" for U.S. citizens in my opinion, after all he is the "voice" for the "advisors" who "suggest' to him the best course of action in the political arena, maybe presidents and prime ministers should be called "salesmen/women" as they don't get to the top unless they please the "right people", and once there have to "sell" the latest new tax/social reform/whatever policy to the general public using slick well prepared speeches that a large portion of the population don't really understand. The Australian government virtually gets "told" what major political decisions they are going to make by bodies such as the "international Monetary Fund", the world bank, the U.S.A, (there's a price to pay if you need a large powerful ally), and god knows how many other rich and powerful interest groups. Sure, we get to vote on election day, but there are only 2 parties that can win, and they just play a game of "who can squeeze the most dollars out of the general public without the public realising whats really going on.".......Call me cynical if you wish, I'm just sick of watching the circus that we call world politics. Roll on Pluto in Capricorn!!

[RockFish]

Bush is not a fascist in the traditional sense of the term. He lacks the charisma, LOL!

Agreed, Caprising. It's all a puppet show, and an old one.....
Pluto in capricorn, Saturn-Uranus opposition, bring it on!!!!:D


"Arthur Jensen (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000885/): Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those *are* the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state, Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that . . . perfect world . . . in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock. All necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused. And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel.
Howard Beale (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002075/): Why me?
Arthur Jensen (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000885/): Because you're on television, dummy."

Network, 1976.

[Radu]

Back to the horary chart.

First off, the significator is not well chosen. Obama is the President elect of the US, not just some other person, so we have to use the 10th house for him, not the 7th.

That makes him represented by Mercury. His turned 4th house is also ruled by Mercury, so we definitively have to look at Mercury to try to get to the answer.

Mercury is in a cadent house and is under Sun's beams, so he REALLY keeps a low profile (planets under Sun's beams cannot be seen).
But that doesn't say anything yet.

We see Mercury in a WATER sign, and with NO ASPECTS, totally alone. That really suggests Hawaii, rather than Kenya, as Hawaii is so far away in the ocean.

I see no connection between Mercury and the 9th house, ruled by Venus.

On the other hand, the Moon is Void of Course in the chart, which generally indicates a negative answer to Yes/No questions.

So, I cannot see any indication in this chart pointing toward a Yes answer, therefore, my conclusion is that Obama was born in Hawaii.

[lillyjgc]

thankyou Radu.
And this link substantiates your astrological findings. Hopefully now this matter can be put to rest.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
cheers,
lillyjgc

[Radu]

Great. The arguments in the article you cited are indeed convincing.

[fensi88]

First off, the significator is not well chosen. Obama is the President elect of the US, not just some other person, so we have to use the 10th house for him, not the 7th.



Radu, you are apsolytelly right! By the way, CONGRATULATIONS for your right prediction on April 16, 2008 about Obama's wining!

[tikana]

Radu

i picked 7th because electoral votes have not been added up .. that will happen on 19th of december.

good job

Chers
T

[Georgem]

Well, I hate to break up the fun in the politics discussion but back to Radu's comments. The story from the Mombasa Kenya story about obama being born there describes his mom and dad as resting in the coastal city of Mombasa during the equatorial summer. His mom went swimming every day to try and stay cool. The stress of her swimming and the excessive heat caused her to go into labor early. This could just as easily address the water issues.

The story is continuing with a muslim Imam who is the grandson of the Imam who blessed Obama is trying to get to the UK and release the Mosque's documentation showing that he was born there. If this Imam makes it and actually has documentation and it corroborates the story told by Obama's paternal grandmother that he was born in Kenya and she was there when he was born, it will be pretty hard to debate further.

Is there any astrology software that can iteratively progress a chart and flag all major planetary interactions from one time period to another? Or, is that still something that has to be done pretty much by picking the dates and then do the chart? I bought my dad the top of the line software from Matrix in 2000 and when he died the next year i never upgraded or kept up. Since he was my only tie to it and he was gone I sort of lost interest until now.

Thanks

[Caprising]

Georgem asked:Is there any astrology software that can iteratively progress a chart and flag all major planetary interactions from one time period to another? Or, is that still something that has to be done pretty much by picking the dates and then do the chart? I bought my dad the top of the line software from Matrix in 2000 and when he died the next year i never upgraded or kept up. Since he was my only tie to it and he was gone I sort of lost interest until now.. Solarfire version 5 has an animated chart function where you can have 4 charts up, say natal, progressed, transits and another persons, and you can change the whole lot by seconds/minutes/hours/days/years or any combination of the above. Aspects arn't shown using the quadriwheel animation function, however there is the choice of veiwing 4 charts on the one page, and also a grid to show aspects between 2 charts, and a synastry grid , not to mention the "planetarium " where you can see your chart on a 'globe", and also solar maps which show the path of your birth planets. Did I mention the pre-natal charts? , this program will keep you busy learning for years, I highly recommend it.

Edited by Moderator: added quotes for ease of reading.

[Matthew The Astrologer]

Ahem.

"“This case, if it were allowed to proceed, would deserve mention in one of those books that seek to prove that the law is foolish or that America has too many lawyers with not enough to do. Even in its relatively short life the case, has excited the blogosphere and the conspiracy theorists. The right thing to do is to bring it to an early end.

The issue of the President's citizenship was raised, vetted, blogged, texted, twittered, and otherwise massaged by America's vigilant citizenry during Obama's two-year campaign for the presidency, but this plaintiff wants it resolved by a court."

(applause)



http://www.scribd.com/doc/13033154/Hollisterdismissal

[FleetingDasein]

No, he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, a US territory (by that same theory, someone born in Puerto Rico should be allowed to run as well).



Of course. Puerto Ricans could indeed run for office, considering that they are American citizens. Only requirement is for them to have a permanent residence in the U.S mainland. ;)

Anyone born in an American Territory (PR, US Virgin Islands, Guam, Panama Canal Zone, hell try Guantanamo Bay, American Samoa) is an American Citizen.

What difference does it make? His mother was born in Kansas. That entitles him to American Citizenship, regardless of where he was born. If he was born in Kenya, that would entitle him to both the Kenyan and the American Citizenship.

American Citizenship = American. It's fairly simple.

As far as socialism goes, look beyond the surface. Food stamps, social security, America is becoming a Welfare State, and that's pretty close to socialism, in my opinon.

[Awakened_Pisces]

(Non-Applause). It is an incredibly FOOLISH decision. As usual, they have made these decisions without investigating. And if it turns out to be fact, they will know by me they risked their future careers. Possibly not limited to the Judical System but can I possibly trust them on American Soil? I would say I could not and feel very angered towards them for doing so.

To what end can it be proven? Even Astrology has proven suspicions of Obama's birthchart veriified through the claim that is a fake birthchart. That it was apparently written over another.

These judges are sweeping the cases right and left, and if proven wrong future politicians will make sure they rue the day. I, as well as other future politicians are watching. And we are collecting names and punish we shall the ignorant who were a part of our judical court.

They have been warned.

[waybread]

Fleeting Dasein is correct. Regardless of Obama's birth location, Article 2 section 1 of the US Constitution requires only that a person be a "natural born" US citizen. Children born overseas to American parents are US citizens from Day 1, because citizenship accrues to people born in a different country having at least one parent who is a US citizen.

So if anyone here wishes to make Obama's citizenship invalid, never mind his birth certificate. Look at Mom's. Oh, and maybe insist that he get a DNA test to prove she was his mother. You never know. Bio-mom could have been anybody. Rght, conspiracy theorists?

[Awakened_Pisces]

Does "Natural Born" mean someone born "Naturally"? No of course not. There's a reason the Fathers stated it(and stated it VERY CLEARLY)

Hitler wasn't a german, he was from Austria. The Fathers knew full well how a situation like that could happen. Therefore, they wanted complete and utter intregrity while in office.

Say that is what it means, that he is born from an American Citizen? Then why the hush, hush about the birth certificate? Most likely, because there's something wrong about it.

I believe Mr.Stellium pointed this out in another thread. Using the AXIS'S to determine the gender of a person.

[FleetingDasein]

Probably because most people would react like this, stating that Obama is not American just because he might have been born somewhere else. Blasphemy, they would say, how can he be president!

Ignorance is running rampant. Worse-case scenario, he was born in Kenya, he is still an American.

I go through these kinds of accusations every now and again due to the fact of having been born in an U.S Territory. You don't know how many times I have to explain that I am an american citizen, that I hold an american passport and that I am entitled to the same rights as people born in the states. Sometimes I just tell people I was born in the mainland in order to avoid the confusion of it all.

Let's not even get started on border agents wanting to see my "green card".

[AquariusT]

(Non-Applause). It is an incredibly FOOLISH decision. As usual, they have made these decisions without investigating. And if it turns out to be fact, they will know by me they risked their future careers. Possibly not limited to the Judical System but can I possibly trust them on American Soil? I would say I could not and feel very angered towards them for doing so.

To what end can it be proven? Even Astrology has proven suspicions of Obama's birthchart veriified through the claim that is a fake birthchart. That it was apparently written over another.

These judges are sweeping the cases right and left, and if proven wrong future politicians will make sure they rue the day. I, as well as other future politicians are watching. And we are collecting names and punish we shall the ignorant who were a part of our judical court.

They have been warned.

:cheers: My message was too short with just cheers. LOL

[LionKing]

Ok... if he was born in Kenya and his mother is a born American, and that allows him to be a United States citizen, then why did he surrender a fake birth certificate?
I think you can easily put this puzzle together. Nuf said, ha! V/r LionKing:D

[Matthew The Astrologer]

There were much larger doubts surrounding whether Chester A. Arthur was born in Vermont... or in Canada. Strangely, I've never read anything about there having been the Illuminati or the Antichrist behind him...

Also, I have a realy hard time imagining that the Founding fathers made a provision about "naturally born Americans" because they knew about Hitler. The Founding Fathers strike me as having been intelligent enough to know that ANY country can produce a jerk.