Will I win in Court

[jamiescott]

Will I win custody of my children?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/imagehosting/794148e7361583c7d.gif

[BobZemco]

You're supposed to do your own analysis, however with your Ascendant at 0°50' the question is too premature to judge.

[jamiescott]

I don't understand horary BobZemco, that's why I asked for help.

[fairylight]

It ends up balanced, whatever that could be, you have a trio in the 12th, in libra. None of them are dodgey, mercury etc, and you also have two trines from venus, one to uranus which is really meaning not a normal expression of love, so what are you doing?

I am not good at horary, but this does not stink....

[fairylight]

ok, I say no. Basing it on you being the left hand side, and your woman is where the man normally is, in my charts, but that is because my charts are all about men...lol.....she has part of fortune in the fourth,north node and chiron. Hate me if you like, but if I had this, I would assume I would be getting the kids.....as well as tht, cobber, you are in oz, and I remember you said in your profile you are unemployed.....judges don't like that....:(

[jamiescott]

Thanks fairylight. It's so complex. I don't know how I would go as a single dad with 3 little ones. I was thinking of pulluing out of this legal stuff, but a good friend encouraged me to keep going. As I'm so confused I think it's better that I don't decide and just see what my fate is in court.

[BobZemco]

Lilly has special rules for legal questions.

You're Venus, your adversary is Mars, the judge is Saturn and the end of the matter is the 4th House. Jupiter trines Saturn, which is not good for you, but agan. However, the Ascendant has not reached 3° so the question is premature.

[jamiescott]

BobZenco, interesting about Jupiter trine Saturn. When I first saw this I thought that was positive because I was reading it like a natal chart. I thought Saturn in 5th (responsibility for kids) trine Jupiter in 9th (success with law). Looks like I have more studying to do.

[BobZemco]

BobZenco, interesting about Jupiter trine Saturn. When I first saw this I thought that was positive because I was reading it like a natal chart. I thought Saturn in 5th (responsibility for kids) trine Jupiter in 9th (success with law). Looks like I have more studying to do.

I'm a novice at horary, but an Ascendant of 3° or less is too early and 27° or more is too late. For legal matters, you're always looking at the 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th houses. The Judge is represented by the 10th, and if Saturn is the ruler then any planet (except Mars) not in opposition to Saturn is bad for you. There's a greater emphasis on the dignities of the planets, and which triplicity they are (angular, cadent, succedent).

[aquarius7000]

Yes, the early ascendant usually indicates that it might be too pre-mature to ask the question, or as Anthony Louis puts it: "Generally an early ascendant means the matter is premature. It's too early to render a judgement." However, Frawley says that every chart can be judged; so there are different theories on this.

However, let us still have a look at the chart.
Like Bob, I too feel that that Jupiter (though in fall, but strong in its own house) in a tight trine to Saturn (judge/court-10th & law itself-9th) gives (further) strength to the judge (showing it could be a tough battle). Also, Moon (your co-sig) though in a tighter sextile to the Sun, is also in a square to Sat (judge), and squares are stronger than sextiles. Peregrine Moon's placement in the 8th (Sco's house, its fall) is also worrying. Ven (you), though gains some strength by being in its natural house-7th, is in your ex-wife's terms by sign- in Sco (she could have some control/power over you), especially as Mars (ex-wife) is in its sign of dignity and house of joy- 6th, and Manilius says that a planet in its house of joy is like it being placed in its own temple, so, as per this chart, she is fairly strong. Notice also that Sat (judge) sits in the house 5 (your children) clearly indicating the court/judge has the final authority over them (to decide about them). Also, Sat's square to Moon (querent's co-sig, also shows the underlying motive of the chart/question) could imply that this case pertaining to the kids (Sat in 5) can be a challenging one (square). Finally, Ven in 7th (cardinal house) could endorse that you initiated the case, and took action.

As I read it,
:)aquarius7000

[archergirl]

en (you), though gains some strength by being in its natural house-7th

Not quite. :)No planet rejoices in the 7th house. Venus' house of joy is the 5th. Venus is the sign opposite her rulership, and in the house opposite her 'place', the 1st.

There are a couple of things here, Jamie.

1. The ascendant, as everyone noted, is very early...so in a way the question is premature, the situation is still developing. We have to take whatever judgement we make, with a huge grain of salt, yes, because we don't have all the information.

2. Others have noted the relative dignities of your ruler, Venus, and your ex-wife, Mars. She is much stronger, being exactly on the angle, and you are in her house in detriment. She very much has the advantage, I would say.

3. The judge is ruled by Saturn, and is placed in the 5th, showing what the focus of the judge is: the children. The Judge is in Mercury's sign of exaltation, so the judge will have the children's best interests at heart. Saturn is in the sign of Venus' fall, so this may affect your influence on him/her...you may not appear in a favourable light.

4. The Verdict is seen by the 4th: the Sun in Libra. While this would seem to suggest that the Verdict goes in your favour (the verdict in Venus' domicile), the sun is in fall in Libra, indicating weakness. Note that Mercury, the children, retrograde back to the Sun. I would think this may indicate that the verdict doesn't stick, or that it goes back for appeal.

5. The Moon in the 8th applies by sextile to the Sun, the Verdict, but by square to Saturn, the judge. The 8th rules 'shared resources'; it seems to me that there will be some element of finance involved: child support, perhaps, or shared custody of the children.

In a nutshell, I don't think you'll 'win' 100%, and there may be some appealing going on: with Mercury retrograde and combust 'the Verdict' it seems to me that this won't be a cut-and-dried case of win/lose, but will require a lot of tweaking.

Good luck!
AG:)

[aquarius7000]

Venus' house of joy is the 5th.
Thanks, am aware! Like I said earlier, Ven "gains some strength by being in its *natural* house-7th" of *Libra*, and certainly not by its house of joy.

..I don't think you'll 'win'..
I agree here! The judges might indeed be tough - in their ruling & to persuade, methinks.

Luck loads, Jamie, and perhaps you'd briefly like to let us know how it goes, so we all get to see how close horary readings actually come to reality. See you on some other thread now.

Cheers,
:)aquarius7000

[jamiescott]

Archergirl said4. The Verdict is seen by the 4th: the Sun in Libra. While this would seem to suggest that the Verdict goes in your favour (the verdict in Venus' domicile), the sun is in fall in Libra, indicating weakness. Note that Mercury, the children, retrograde back to the Sun. I would think this may indicate that the verdict doesn't stick, or that it goes back for appeal.

This is an urgent case because of neglect and abuse. The verdict will be a temporary order untill the full hearing in 3 to 12 months.

Yes aquarius7000, If I come back alive I'll let you know.

[archergirl]

Ven "gains some strength by being in its *natural* house-7th" of *Libra*, and certainly not by its house of joy.

Quite, although I would point out that Venus is in detriment in the 'opposition's' house, so this isn't strength. It's a big disadvantage in this chart. Venus is literally in the 'house of the enemy'. That the 7th has influence from Libra is not especially significant here. :) One has to weigh all things. Venus is utterly peregrine in this chart. Mars has all the strength: highly angular, in its own domicile, triplicity, term AND face. Not a foe I'd want to contend with.

AG:)

[aquarius7000]

Venus is literally in the 'house of the enemy'.....Mars has all the strength: highly angular, in its own domicile, triplicity,...

Xactly, and like I already said for Ven "Ven (you), though gains some strength by being in its natural house-7th, is in your ex-wife's terms by sign-in Sco (she could have some control/power over you), especially as Mars (ex-wife) is in its sign of dignity and house of joy- 6th,.."

And hey, Jamie, don't worry, you'll come out okay, though the chart could really have been better; if only you'd been Mars-'the Man'- in the chart here.

Ta-ra
:)aquarius7000

[jamiescott]

Yeah, I know I'll be OK with either verdict.
PS - Doesn't BobZemco look handsome?

[jamiescott]

Well sort of a win, plenty of delays as you all said. Check out the tight Lilith square Uranus in the chart. I got to tell this story:

Toward the end of the lunch recess, I saw enter the foyer. Black stiletto's, tight black mid-length skirt, starched white blouse, long dark hair tied back crisply in a high ponytail. Our eyes fixed in a stare. She glided across the floor, eyes not moving off me. The most powerful I had ever seen her. Her best ever Medusa death stare. My adrenalin kicked in hardcore. Me, one mere mortal faced with her, threatened with losing her offspring to me. I summoned up all I had and gave her my best sly grin. Her eyes finally left me as she went past. That was worth the seven years alone. My fondest memory of her, to see her in all her power. We must have done something right. She has Pars Fortunae on Algol.

[AquariusT]

I agree with BobZemco

[jamiescott]

Yep, 3 days each with the kids, alternating. Next court appearance mid December.

[archergirl]

To recap:
The Verdict is seen by the 4th: the Sun in Libra. While this would seem to suggest that the Verdict goes in your favour (the verdict in Venus' domicile), the sun is in fall in Libra, indicating weakness. Note that Mercury, the children, retrograde back to the Sun. I would think this may indicate that the verdict doesn't stick, or that it goes back for appeal.

The Moon in the 8th applies by sextile to the Sun, the Verdict, but by square to Saturn, the judge. The 8th rules 'shared resources'; it seems to me that there will be some element of finance involved: child support, perhaps, or shared custody of the children.

In a nutshell, I don't think you'll 'win' 100%, and there may be some appealing going on: with Mercury retrograde and combust 'the Verdict' it seems to me that this won't be a cut-and-dried case of win/lose, but will require a lot of tweaking.

and then jamiescott:
Yep, 3 days each with the kids, alternating. Next court appearance mid December.

Excellent. This is the sort of feedback that makes horary so worth studying. Cheers, jamiescott!

AG:)

[jamiescott]

Why did you have to go and be pleasant. I like it better when your fiesty. That's right, Mars and Jupiter. Show me your your AC, I've shown you mine.

[jamiescott]

It's all good and we win.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/imagehosting/794148f13dda61c6f.jpg

[Awakened_Pisces]

I'm so happy for you and I hope that this will be the start of the buliding of a foundation of a good life for all of you. Interestingly, I must ask. Why were you so excited to see your former wife with that power? Clearly, it should have scared you. It would have scared me.

[jamiescott]

Why were you so excited to see your former wife with that power? Clearly, it should have scared you. It would have scared me.She was a girlfriend. I refused to marry her. I get a thrill out of a good fight. I helped her find her power through conflict.

[Awakened_Pisces]

I see. I too love debates and such and etc. I'm so glad for you and your children. I hope you get to live a fantastic life.

[jamiescott]

I see. I too love debates and such and etc. I'm so glad for you and your children. I hope you get to live a fantastic life. Thanks mate. So do I, but I want to travel. I don't know how this can work yet. I will just have to wait a bit longer I suppose.

[BobZemco]

Thanks mate. So do I, but I want to travel. I don't know how this can work yet. I will just have to wait a bit longer I suppose.

Look at your transits and progressions.

Some things to look for specifically:

Transiting planets in the 2nd, 5th, or 8th going retrograde or direct and conjuncting a natal planet.

Progressed planets in the 2nd, 5th or 8th going retrograde or direct.

Transiting/progressed planets conjuncting the cusps of the 2nd, 5th, or 8th.

Progressed planets that are natal or natural rulers of the 2nd, 5th or 8th about to change sign.

The transiting/progressed natal or natural rulers of the 2nd, 5th or 8th making aspects between themselves.

The transiting outer planets (especially Saturn, Uranus, Neptune or Pluto) aspecting the natal or natural rulers of the 2nd, 5th or 8th whether in the progressed chart or natal chart.