George Orwell - Prophet?

[jamiescott]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Police

Is the internet being used as George Orwell might have thought?

[skywatcher1221]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Police

Is the internet being used as George Orwell might have thought?

Far from it! It is the last bastion of grass roots free expression though there are many would-be thought cops who would like to put curbs on it.

[jamiescott]

Originally Posted by skywatcher1221
Far from it! It is the last bastion of grass roots free expression though there are many would-be thought cops who would like to put curbs on it.

Movie preview: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=P085wFGE9FY

Do you think it is possible that professional remote viewers/psychics working for the state or private groups/people, could use the internet as a medium to access our thoughts?

[skywatcher1221]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=P085wFGE9FY

Do you think it is possible that professional remote viewers/psychics working for the state or private groups/people, could use the internet as a medium to access our thoughts?

If they can access thoughts, I don't believe they need the internet to do it. Psychics, telepaths, mediums and the like existed long before the internet. I've read reports of CIA experiments along these lines that were carried out before the advent of the internet. The Soviets were also into this and, again from what I've read, they were way ahead of the West. I don't know how successful they were at reading thoughts (it's probably classified) but I have read that they were able to induce headaches in "target" subjects. All this is unsubstantiated, of course. The CIA "officially" discontinued the program in light of criticism from skeptics in Congress who deemed it a waste of taxpayers' money. (That's their story, anyway, and they are sticking to it.)

[jamiescott]

Originally Posted by skywatcher1221
If they can access thoughts, I don't believe they need the internet to do it.

I agree they would not need the internet to access thoughts. My point is; they could use the internet as a tool to form a connection to a target, just as you and I have a connection through this communication.

If, as Orwell predicted, Thought Police were to track down trouble makers, then they could certainly use the internet to shortlist their targets.

[skywatcher1221]

I agree they would not need the internet to access thoughts. My point is; they could use the internet as a tool to form a connection to a target, just as you and I have a connection through this communication.

If, as Orwell predicted, Thought Police were to track down trouble makers, then they could certainly use the internet to shortlist their targets.
Okay, when you put it like that, it does seem possible. In 1984 the telescreen was an all-seeing eye that people weren't allowed to turn off (unless they were members of the Inner Party); the best they could do was lower the volume. The internet is almost as ubiquitous as the telescreen and a lot of people leave their computers on all the time so the "channel" is always open. In that respect, the pc is like the telescreen.

[Night Sky]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Police

Is the internet being used as George Orwell might have thought?


Of course it is. Everything that you write, everything that you click on and view is recorded somewhere by someone. If you think about all the cookies that record every username for your own computer, how hard would it be to simply make a duplicate cookie in a centralised supercomputer.

The internets appears free because things are not policed, or they don't seem to be censored. Read about Foucault's penopticon. I think people police themselves and each other.

What provoked your thread anyway... did you read some Orwell? Post up his natal chart if you like. He has some interesting aspects.

[jamiescott]

Originally posted by Night Sky
What provoked your thread anyway... did you read some Orwell?

I have transiting Pluto squaring mt Sun. Also at that time I was experiencing paranoia due to a misunderstanding (retrograde Mercury squaring my AC).

I did not read too much at school but my English teacher took my class to see 1984 when it came out. I think that was in 1984.:rolleyes:

Let us hope that Julia was write when she said "He can't get inside you. He can't get to your heart".

[jamiescott]

Originally posted by Night Sky
Post up his natal chart if you like. He has some interesting aspects.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/imagehosting/794148e73f8c6402a.gif

I see what you mean Night Sky. Nice looking grand trine. Stellium around the MC. I've picked out just a few stars that may relate to prophesy:

Sun/Moon:http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Propus.html

Neptune:http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/TejatPosterior.html

AC/Fortunae:http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Labrum.html

[Night Sky]

Ascendant ruler in rulership in the 9th house... from a grand trine.

9th house is house of seeing future. Of prophecy.

Then you have that Sun Moon Neptune in the 10th. What's going on there? All square Mars.

[Night Sky]

If you look closely you have a GRAND CROSS.

Uranus Pluto Jupiter


ALL conjunct the angles.


Uranus Pluto is the big explanation as far as I'm concerned with Orwell. It is the most potenet force you can get. And it plugs into Orwell on the Angles.

The Neptune contact is all about sensitivity and Orwell may well have been a psychic with those Cancer placements Cancer New Moon, and Exalted Neptune.

Then his writing is something that he was simply BORN DOING with the GRAND TRINE all focusing on DIGNIFIED MERCURY.


But the big thing for me are the Angles.

[Moulin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Police

Is the internet being used as George Orwell might have thought?


overwhelming answer - YESSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!

George Orwell is right.. in China alone they monitor SKYPE ;)

[Sweet Venus]

If you look closely you have a GRAND CROSS.

Uranus Pluto Jupiter


ALL conjunct the angles.


Uranus Pluto is the big explanation as far as I'm concerned with Orwell. It is the most potenet force you can get. And it plugs into Orwell on the Angles.

The Neptune contact is all about sensitivity and Orwell may well have been a psychic with those Cancer placements Cancer New Moon, and Exalted Neptune.

Then his writing is something that he was simply BORN DOING with the GRAND TRINE all focusing on DIGNIFIED MERCURY.


But the big thing for me are the Angles.


If you don't mind me adding, he has Venus in Leo connecting to both Idealism and innovation in Uranus and to revolution and death in Pluto. Venus in Leo semi-square Sun and Moon shows he would have had a lot of that love energy of Venus.:)

[Night Sky]

If you don't mind me adding, he has Venus in Leo connecting to both Idealism and innovation in Uranus and to revolution and death in Pluto. Venus in Leo semi-square Sun and Moon shows he would have had a lot of that love energy of Venus.:)


To me his writing is still filled with a certain amount of foreboding violence, and is a very gloomy and depressing outlook on humanity. How is a "boot stamping on a person's head for the rest of eternity" in accord with the princples of Venus?

I can see how Orwell was horrified by his surroundings, and maybe that is where the Venusian princples come in, but they seem to be in a very difficult relationship with the political state of his world view.

I can see that love between Julia and Winston in 1984, but in reality they betray each other don't they... "give it to her"... "give the rats to her, make her suffer instead of me..." And she of course is forced to betray him too.


That Venus is something I did not notice Sweet Venus, thanks for bringing it to my attention. I thought I knew Orwell's chart of by hand, but that Venus is pretty strongly placed in the chart and actually rules Orwell's 9th house... that house we associate with his prophetic thought and visionary writing is actually ruled by Leo Venus in the 11th house. And I think you are right about the semi-square with Sun-Moon, that is a powerful aspect.

[Sweet Venus]

To me his writing is still filled with a certain amount of foreboding violence, and is a very gloomy and depressing outlook on humanity. How is a "boot stamping on a person's head for the rest of eternity" in accord with the princples of Venus?

I can see how Orwell was horrified by his surroundings, and maybe that is where the Venusian princples come in, but they seem to be in a very difficult relationship with the political state of his world view.

I can see that love between Julia and Winston in 1984, but in reality they betray each other don't they... "give it to her"... "give the rats to her, make her suffer instead of me..." And she of course is forced to betray him too.


That Venus is something I did not notice Sweet Venus, thanks for bringing it to my attention. I thought I knew Orwell's chart of by hand, but that Venus is pretty strongly placed in the chart and actually rules Orwell's 9th house... that house we associate with his prophetic thought and visionary writing is actually ruled by Leo Venus in the 11th house. And I think you are right about the semi-square with Sun-Moon, that is a powerful aspect.



I agree with you on that there is a lot of violence in Orwell, but I think that there is a great love there too. His characters are not very psychologically developed, not in relationships, not in relating or feeling and that is part of the world he lived in and the world we live in. It makes it difficult to show emotion, because we are constantly under surveilence. But there is love. ;) That's what makes it so compelling so strongly filled with emotion, the destruction of love by the state and the interference of the political establishment. Censorship of love. I think i am going to go and read Orwell again.:)

[jamiescott]

JerryRR. You remind me of that mysterious man in the X-Files who gave clues here and there. What was his name?

[Nexus7]

Well now, I'm puzzled.

I read the Tarnas book recently, Cosmos and Psyche, and felt that he really had a good handle on Saturn/Pluto. That can be a pretty 'heavy' paranoid combination - I checked up the chart of Kafka afterwards, who certainly did have a square between those planets - Kafka, remeber, wrote a story about someone who is arrested, tried and executed and he never does find out why he was.

Tarnas, anyway, claims that Orwell was Saturn/Pluto.

But now I see he isn't!

OK, there is that Grand Trine with Mercury, Saturn and Mars, which might have indicated some awareness of the ways in which information can be abused - or misused - but I still would have expected to see Orwell's Pluto a whole lot more prominent.

The only thing that comes to mind is what I did once hear pointed pout about his New Moon in Cancer - Cancer can be an intensely private sign. Perhaps, somehow, he felt some kind of existential threat, simply by virtue of being endowed with all that lunar sensitivity - the sense of being naked in front of some highly judgemental authority figure?

Now I see there is a t-square with Uranus/Jupiter and Pluto. Jupiter/Pluto could maybe be seen in his arch-inquisitor O'Brien, the large, powerful and brutal figure who breaks his puny protagonist's hero Winston Smith once they finally get to Room 101.

Got to be more than meets the eye with midpoints here, surely?

Anyway, can we trust the time? Definitely Virgo rising? One other thing I would be sure about is that he had to have a strong Mercurial diemnsion in his chart - too senstive to how information can be manipulated again, it seems to me.

[Sweet Venus]

Well now, I'm puzzled.

Now I see there is a t-square with Uranus/Jupiter and Pluto. Jupiter/Pluto could maybe be seen in his arch-inquisitor O'Brien, the large, powerful and brutal figure who breaks his puny protagonist's hero Winston Smith once they finally get to Room 101.

Got to be more than meets the eye with midpoints here, surely?

Anyway, can we trust the time? Definitely Virgo rising? One other thing I would be sure about is that he had to have a strong Mercurial diemnsion in his chart - too senstive to how information can be manipulated again, it seems to me.

Why do you question the facts when you have them in front of you nexus7?

And winston wasn't "puny" as you put it, he was just ordinary and a little ill. That is derogatry to the hero of the novel.

[Nexus7]

'Why do you question the facts when you have them in front of you nexus7?'

And winston wasn't "puny" as you put it, he was just ordinary and a little ill. That is derogatry to the hero of the novel.'

Sweet Venus

You may or may not be aware of this, but there are sometimes charts for which there is 'dirty' or conflicting data, or noon charts given where no birth data is available.

I questioned the data in a spirit of neutral and courteous inquiry actually, and I am surprised that anyone should feel so challenged by me for wanting to be sure that the data was correct.

As for 'puny,' well it is difficult for me to understand why you choose to see my words as derogatory, when my aim was simply to choose what still seems to me to be a perfectly valid adjective to describe the hero's powerlessness within the society he finds himself.