CHIRON

[Lapis]

I can't believe that there isn't a plane ol' "Chiron" thread here? :? Now there is. One location where we all can discuss this mysterious archetype and how it manifests in our lives and consciousness. As I've mentioned before, with Chiron conjunct my Sun, this energy is really important to me and I want to understand it as best I can. I also think we all should know Chiron much more consciously.

Anyway, I found this old but wonderful article by Eric Francis - "Chiron and Shamanism". I think Shaman added to Chiron's list of qualities it will make understanding Chiron and Chirotic energies much easier for many people.

What Shamans are, what they're capable of doing both in the physical world and the nonphysical ones, is highly Chiron like in so many ways. Chiron so easily walks between the worlds and can function both in and out of 'time' and works on healing, exorcising, integrating, many things on many different levels. All highly Shamanistic abilities. I think Chiron's gotten a really limited understanding being labeled "wounded healer" or "maverick". Shaman IS what Chiron's all about IMO.

Plus another highly important fact that astrologers either forget or overlook is that Chiron taught Astrology amongst many other of the 'Arts'. Because of this I'd think that Chiron's natal placement and aspects etc., would also indicate one's abilities to become a knowledable 'Shamanic Astrologer Healer' etc.

http://www.accessnewage.com/articles/astro/efrchiau.htm

[Arian Maverick]

This is a great idea for a thread, Lapis! :D

I have Chiron in my fifth house at the beginning of Cancer, yet it isn't placed too prominently in my natal chart except for a loose T-square involving a Uranus opposition, both square my moon...

Sometimes I don't know what to think of my natal chart; some placements simply don't make any sense to me :?

Aquarian Maverick

[Shimmy26]

Lapis - I'm with you on wanting to understand Chiron even better, with having a Chiron/Sun conjunction (mine's in Cancer in the 5th, what's yours?). These planets also oppose Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Vesta in my chart, but I'm still trying hard to understand what it means. What I have figured is that I do have great difficulty in the relationship with my mother (the Cancer part), but I do have creative abilities (5th house) which is probably how I would do my "healing". This is just a basic interpretation though, and I know there is much more to it, it's just a matter of more research and some intense introspection. :D

[Empath]

The Chiron threads are how I found this forum and what motivated me to join it.
I truly seek Chirotic knowledge.

Long before Chiron was discovered in '77 -- I knew I had a T-square/semi Grand Cross formed by Uranus in Leo (6 deg 59')exactly opposing my Aquarian (6 deg 59') ascendent, Moon in Taurus (4 deg) opposite Neptune in Scorpio (1 deg). There's also a Mars (Pisces) opp. Jup/ Virgo, sextile (or trine) to a Sun/Mercury/MC/North Node in Scorpio (24 - 29 deg). Saturn at 4 deg Sag, Pluto at 0 deg Virgo, and a pretty much unaspected Venus in Libra (19 deg).

I always "knew" there was something on my ascendent that formed the first leg of a True Grand Fixed Cross. Eventually I had a chart cast w/ Chiron, and it is nearly combust the ascendent (7 deg 2' Aquarius).

My experience -- or point of view of my Fixed Grand Cross and abundance of squares and oppositions is that my squares are building blocks, and the oppositions are ley lines. Indeed, when I attune and align with the energy of the Fixed Cross, doors open and mountains move.

I've been really going through it with transits, between Neptune in the first, Saturn in the 6th (now in 7th) and Chiron through the 12th, rapidly approaching an exact return.

I've had strange and difficult physical manifestations -- psoriasis on the hands, scalp, and feet. I lost about 60% of my thick, fairly straight hair -- I see a homeopathic dermatologist and use vegan hair products, and now my hair is growing in -- fine and curly! Talk about a first house change!

Then there was the lung cancer scare at the beginning of the year. My cat scans were very ominous. Before I had the biopsies I had a LOT of energy work (icluding Reiki and Theta healing) and got real about myself, my life, my goals, my past, etc. There's nothing like peering into the abyss to gain perspective of the horizon. They took 20 biopsies, but found no signs of cancer, amazing the doctor (and yes, I am a former smoker, we can get into the addiction thing w/ a chart like mine). They don't know what is going on, it's all so very Neptunian, and yes, Saturnian and well ultimately Chirotic. I think the energy work and homeopathy (my derm is treating my lungs now -- it's all connected) are my personal best healing tools.

In the middle of it all, the company I worked for (named Dolphin) went under. The day I was told that I might have cancer, I saw an ad for a job and thought "that's me". But the doctor called before I could respond. In the throes of my abyss-pondering, I received a phone call and an email from a recruiter. I did not respond. He called again, after I did some of the interior work, and I answered. He was recruiting me for the job I had seen earlier. I was hired at a pay 52% higher than my Dolphin pay -- and the company is curiously named Redwood.

And this was just February!

Thanks for reading this. Any insight is appreciated. I am grateful to find a forum where such experiences and perspectives can be shared.

[5th house moon]

Hi everyone

This is a very timely post! I'm another forumite fascinated by Chiron. My natal Chiron in 9th in Pisces is conjunct my 9th house Aries North Node. It also opposes natal pluto in Virgo in 3rd. I've been trying to work out what this all means!

I've found this book really informative:

Chiron: Rainbow Bridge between Inner and Outer Planets
Barbara Hand Clow

Cheers
5th

[Arian Maverick]

my Aquarian (6 deg 59') ascendent

Oh my goodness...I know this is unrelated to Chiron, but I feel compelled to mention that my Ascendent is at 6 degrees 06' Aquarius! :o

Aquarian Maverick

[Empath]

Aquarian Maverick -- you, too, are experiencing a Chiron voyage from your 12th to first house. Has it been interesting experience for you as well?

[Arian Maverick]

Aquarian Maverick -- you, too, are experiencing a Chiron voyage from your 12th to first house. Has it been interesting experience for you as well?

I suppose that depends upon your definition of interesting...I know that I have certainly become more aware of the psychological wounds of my past as I attempt to cultivate peace within myself and with my environment. The Universe has guided me to Jan Spiller's wonderful book Astrology For The Soul, which has helped me better understand the influence of my Virgo South Node. Now I seem to be engaged in direct combat with the wounds of my past; they nag me constantly to the point of distraction. For goodness sake, I cannot even write a simple response on the forums for fear that it will not be perfect!

Anyway, I am not sure whether or not my experience is a direct influence of the Chiron transit, but it is certainly interesting that these wounds should resurface after Chiron has passed through the subconscious realm of my twelfth house...

Aquarian Maverick

[Empath]

Aquarian Maverick -- a Virgo South Node is very 12th house in its effects. I guess your self-critiquer does go on hyperdrive at times.

My wounds have literally come to the surface. It all began in February 2001, with itchy palms and soles. Transiting Neptune (rules Picses/feet) was right on my natal Chiron (exactly on the ascendent), and transiting Saturn was opposing my Scorpio Sun/Mercury/MC/North Node stellium.

Thus it began.

In the process of healing the skin, the homeopathy peels layers of stuff, like an onion. Now I think we've gotton close to the core/root of issues -- the lungs, and its associated lessons of love, self-love, regret, forgiveness, breathing freely. I think the treatment has aligned well with the astrology, but I'm no expert.

[Lapis]

Wow and welcome Empath, glad you've joined us here.

What a Chirotic journey you've been on! Transiting Chiron recently entered my 12th ( trans. Neptune's been there for ages it seems already) and I'm feeling the focus change to the deeper depths. This will no doubt get interesting as the months roll on. Natal Pluto is in the 6th in Leo so 'things' are stacking up again. No rest for the weary.....

I found it interesting how Chiron's been taking you through the many layers of issues/healings to get to the 'heart' of the teaching aka wound or place where energy has gotten stuck or shut out. Easy for me to sit here and say that.....but my times coming fast and I'll be singin' outta the other side of my mouth then I'm sure! :wink:

My Chiron is 4 Capricorn and Sun is 1 Cap both in the 10th. Like you I always wondered what was causing some of the things I did or could do. With Pisces rising I usually blamed Neptune even though it, whatever 'it' was, didn't feel like Neptune. Years later I too had another natal done with Chiron included and there was my answer. He's hugging my Sun in 10! Can't see the forest for the trees!

And so my quest to step back or up or sideways and try to view Chiron away from my Sun if possible. The main thing I've discovered for me at least with Chiron/Sun conjunction, is that I'm learning how to deal with being conscious of process if that makes any sense. I feel that Chiron teaches us how to keep both eyes wide open and remain in our bodies at all those scarey and painful points when we'd naturally flee the sceen of the crime normally! We'd leave our bodies, we'd leave our minds, we'd just plane leave because its too much. Chiron teaches how to face all of that and move through 'it'. 'It' of course is all that Saturn holds which is more than enough!!!

IOW's to me is feels like we go from being the person who has some sort of problem and goes to the local Shaman for guidance and treatment. When we get to a certain point with Chiron, instead of laying there and letting the Shaman do most of the dirty work for us, we morph into the Shaman himself and continue doing our 'work' from that point.

It's no secret that I'm a Barbara Hand Clow fan and the other book of hers that IMO is a must have for all astrologers is "Liquid Light Of Sex: Kundalini, Astrology, and the Key Life Transitions". It deals with the 3 main life transits - Saturn Return, Uranus Opposition, and Chiron Return. Here's a bit from this book.

************************************************** ***************
"From mid-life until 50, increasingly subtle energies functioning in the upper chakras are working in synchronicity with Chiron as this small planet approaches its return. Just as Saturn Return creates a crisis about the completion of physical structures, Chiron Return will create a crisis about the completion of subtle structures.........."

"......Chiron is the archetype that makes it possible for us to feel like energy instead of only like solid matter. Its return sets off a period of maximal ability to consciously transmute subtle states of consciousness......"

".....As Chiron Return draws near, energy intensely reorganizes in your body. Your lower chakras now receive powerful spiritual force, straight from the cosmic realms, as energy flows right down through your crown, third eye, throat, and heart chakras into your lower chakras. Like a foaming wild river blasting downstream when a dam is removed, the light rushes through the opened lower chakra, creating the possibility of a tremendous physical, emotional, and mental breakthrough."

[Empath]

SIta,
With skin issues, always look to the emotional/stress environment in addition to the physical. Cod liver oil is great because of the omega EFAs in it. Your boyfriend should also consider his physical environment and look for triggers -- new paint, carpeting, chemical exposure, even shampoo can trigger reactions. Stress -- family, work, long commute -- are triggers.

For me it was more of a cosmic stress. I was very upset about the 2000 election in the US, as bush proved my intuited dread and worst fears my skin worsened, and when the 2004 electoral fiasco occurred, my hair started falling out in clumps, my skin was bright pink all over, my fingernails and toenails thickened to grotesque dimensions and the skin on my hands and feet were contantly cracked open and very very painful. I was resisting the AMA at teh time and saw a traditional acupuncturist. I loved the treatments and had some unusal experiences, but I was getting much worse.

I meditated long and hard and 'beamed' in a wonderful doctor who is AMA board certified dermatologist, but also practices homeopathy and acupuncture. He thinks that my overexposure to chemicals in paint and carpeting combined with a genetic predisposition to both allergies (my mom) and psoriasis (my dad), and my cosmic depression about the political situation (and 9-11 and Irraq) just fried my autoimmune system.

Well, live and learn. I did use the 2004 election to quit smoking, so something good came out of it.

The moral of my story is that your boyfriend might do well to seek allergy testing, as well as a visit with a conventional derm to rule out any nasty systemic thing like lupus. Be wary of the prescriptions -- most allopathic remedies suppress symptoms, but do not cure. Your boyfriend's body is trying to expel toxins through his skin, so ultimately he will heal if you can figure out the source of the toxicity.

All the best -- this skin stuff is not fun!

[Empath]

Lapis,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply and Clow quotes. It's funny -- I've read (or read parts of) all of the books cited on the threads I've visited so far!

What is so very funny to me is that those that are interested in Chiron turn out to have a prominant Chiron in their charts! Sun/Chiron is potent indeed. My sense is that some days your hands are very hot and full of energy and other days they are icey cold -- that's a flash that just came to me, but it's the image I got of Sun - Chiron - Capricorn (some days the rocks are hot from the sun; other days you are in the cool, smooth cave).

My intuition also tells me it's time for myself to emerge from my cave. I've surfed and lurked on forums for years, but have no internet identity. I joined this forum just recently and already it's been a boon to my astrology knowledge and self awareness. I think our horoscopes are macrocosmic holograms of our soul identity. For too many years I've read and pondered but didn't really have any venue for sharing and exploration.

Well here I am... out from thecave, eyes blinking in the bright sunshine...

[cara4art]

For me, natal Chiron is Rx in my 8th house, at 2 Scorpio. It trines my Ascendant, and Sun-Uranus conjunction in 4th. It also squares my 6th-house Saturn, and is in quincunx to my NN in 3rd.
I think Chiron has manifested for me in the fact that I have a very great capability to go to altered states naturally for healing - that's why shamanic energy work is so-o relevant and right-on for me. I am also very secretive in nature - many people, including my husband, don't feel that they really know me at all. But then, I associate with VERY few people, as most superficial small talk just drives me up the wall!
Transiting Chiron is at the front edge of my 12th house now, and will make a series of oppositions to my natal 6th house stellium. But I have already been working in depth on healing issues for the last couple of years, whilst tr. Chiron was in my 11th in Capricorn!
My DOB, if anyone cares to comment further:
6/21/1947 11:51PM Providence, RI USA
Thanks!

[Empath]

cara4art,

Your 8th house scorpio chiron is all about the shaman. You were born with the ability to go deep within the cave of the psyche/human nature -- the very depths. I think the trines give you creative outlets for this deep, transformative thing you do -- and with a Sun/Uranus conjunction on the Cancer cusp, there is the continual "discussion" between the safe, warm, protected you and the outrageous, creative innovative you. It's easier to stick to small talk when the occassion demands it because few would understand what you would express of your experiences in that intense centaur cave!

[Light]

Hi Empath

Glad you're here. :D

You're absolutely right about people uinterested in Chiron. I wasn't interested at all until I discovered these boards. it was just another body, one too many to learn about (I'm very much the beginner here). But now, that has changed. :D

Any way, I think my Chiron is fairly prominet, too. I've an IC/Chir/Jup in Pisc opposing UR/MC/Plu/Moon in Virgo, all Squaring a saggy venus in the 1st. And Sco Nep sat on My Asc, trining Chir/Jup!

I'm learning all the time, about him.

take care

hel

PS My merc is on your ASC!

[cara4art]

"I think the trines give you creative outlets for this deep, transformative thing you do -- and with a Sun/Uranus conjunction on the Cancer cusp, there is the continual "discussion" between the safe, warm, protected you and the outrageous, creative innovative you. It's easier to stick to small talk when the occassion demands it because few would understand what you would express of your experiences in that intense centaur cave!" - Empath

So right on with your assessment of the position of Chiron in my chart. But as far as the "warm protected you and the creative innovative you, there's no contest - in my case, there is no "warm protected you", in fact, the whole idea of feeling safe has been a huge issue in my life as I so seldom do feel safe, or in my element either. I've been on the outs from day one, and other kids sensed this when I was young, too. Tthe creative innovative rules my life - I am an artist by trade(although I haven't made much $$$ in recent years at at all!) But it is never easier for me to "stick with the small talk" - in general, social affairs are VERY difficult for me for that very reason, as well as generally feeling out of my element, as mentioned above.
The shaman archetype for me has rung true for a good many years, esp. when it comes to my art. If you want, I can give you my web address so you can see what it is all about.
The last two years plus of shamanic energy work with a very gifted practitioner have been the most powerful, and the most humbling in a good way, of my life.

[Empath]

cara4art, feeling warm and protected -- and the quest for it -- is a huge issue for Cancers.

Many never leave the psychological womb and create layers of insulation around themselves to protect that warm, soft place and these individuals can become very hardened on the outside.

For you, I sent an overexposure, more like your soft core was turned inside out, and that is part of your vulnerability.
That Uranus conj. Sun is exhibitionist in nature, unpredictable and inexplicable at times and often in conflict with your very inner and private worlds. I think I meant to say that VERY small, terse talk -- the "hi. how are you. I am fine. see you later. (and then move on)" rote social type (not the superficial babble stuff) is relatively safe in that you can just say the words without exposing your vulnerabilities.

Actually I thought a good bit about the Chiron 2 deg Scorp 8th placement and shamanism -- and how shamanism, with its birth/death/rebirth voyage and imagery is the perfect expression of your Chiron. That's why the shamanic work is so powerful for you -- you are born to do it.

[cara4art]

Hi Empath!

"cara4art, feeling warm and protected -- and the quest for it -- is a huge issue for Cancers" - Empath

Is my Sun at 29'54 Gemini really considered to be Cancer? I have NEVER identified with the Cancer part of my chart as I feel it is too "squishy" for one thing. Domesticity has never been my strong point, even though I'm home alot due to the fact that I work at home. Cooking/food prep is only for superior nutritional value, not gourmet pleasures in my case, with the result that I am slim and healthy at the age of 58! Yes, I have felt that I have sometimes had to be somewhat "hard", esp. in my closest relationships, as being vulnerable just sets off all the alarms about fears of being annihilated, which I was in so many gruesome forms in many previous lives. Again, seldom have I ever had the feeling of complete safety, except in a counselling situation, or the VERY rare, understanding friend, of which I have extremely few at this point in my life.
As far as being "born to do it" does that mean that I do shamanic activity instead of art, or is it a powerful ally in my art-making? The reason I ask this is that some folks indicate that the true vocation or calling is often found in the 8th house.
How I came into it as part of my own healing process was through what I considered to be an "Initiatory" back injury nearly 2.5 years ago. What was initially follow-up to this injury has turned into an amazing spiritual journey that I have not been able to share with anyone, including my husband, other than making oblique references to it sometimes. My back IS hugely improved, BTW, but my inner work goes on, for whatever it takes - it's surely not over yet.
I know the shaman has to interact with his/her local community to be of service, but this is a huge issue for me now, as I am VERY private, and not happy in my current community.
I am also aware of the fact that transiting Chiron is going into my 12th house, to oppose my 6th house stellium - what can I expect from that if I have already been on an intensive healing path for the last couple of years?
My web address so you can see my art:
http://www.richardshuff.com/html/cara_lee.html

[C1]

:) Lapis,

Perfect timing with this thread,
as your refined frequency,
like a singing bowl that is played by being struck in
ancient times / now
by a goddess on Earth
hits
that perfect tone and holds it :wink:

Hi to Cara4Art and Aqua Mav, Hel141, Sita and Empath (welcome).
Sharing our "Chiron-finds" continues to be
healing and educational for me (thanks, Chiron!)

I'm re-reading an earlier Chiron thread (it's somewhere here on the Forum) where I read an article that linked with this article:

http://www.accessnewage.com/articles/astro/CHIRPLUT.HTM

In 2000 I had my Chiron return in my 12th house at 7+ degrees Sagittarius,
involving the transiting Chiron cj transiting Pluto (two
moving-and-shaking energies!)...so this event opened the window
to a potential rebirth...this next phase in my life.

In 1941 there was a previous Chiron-Pluto cj (before I was born)...
I think this is discussed in the article linked-above...
and now Pluto in Sagittarius is urging us to confront our shadow-
side and heal or integrate it, and Chiron is helping with that healing.

2000 to the present day have been "pushy" and difficult for me--
I guess I could give up resisting and make it easier on myself :mrgreen:

Transiting Chiron at 7 Aqua 45 is in a stellium with Nessu, Ceres and Venus and sextile my natal
Chiron in 12th house 7 Sagittarius 27.

I'm also interested in Eric Francis' interpretation of the combined Pholu,
Nessu, Asbol, Chiron centauric (shamanic) energy-shifters who all
changed signs earlier this year....preparing for the coming solar
eclipse and Aries-Point equinox awakening....

Well, this Merc Rx is like mental molasses/and my energies are
...well, I think I'll go back into my 12th house for a bit, with Chiron,
and from there look into the GC/Pluto depths and let the watery
energies wash over me (as Elianah suggested) and
"work with" the building-block/cross/oppositional energies of

transiting Jupiter square transiting Neptune
square natal Sun (5th house, Taurus) square natal moon (8th house, Leo)....

Great thread :!:
C1

[Lapis]

"....too squishy for one thing." :lol: cara4art!!! Thanks for the Cancer giggles.

Empath,
Yes you correctly picked up on my burning souls :mrgreen: and palms. Around 2000 this flaming feet and hands thing has made my little Pisces ASC life a real pain! The heat that blasts out of the bottoms of my feet gets so bad sometimes that I sit barefoot with ice packs under them. It takes 30 minutes sometimes before I even physically feel the cold. Prior to 2000 I was usually cold! Add to this hot flashes from Hades and well.......what can I say, it's been over-the-top since 1998 and I don't guess it'll be getting any easier from here on out! Anyone ever recall an angelic or nonphysical buddy ever saying that transmutation would be easy? :wink:

I've also repeatedly experienced the whole area where one's heart chakra is, to suddenly become super cold. It's very strange because you can feel exactly where this cold edge is on my skin.....its a perfect large circle on my chest! I just read something about this hot/cold business on Karen Bishop's latest article, much to my relief.


C1,
It hit me so strong and sudden the other day that there wasn't a Chiron thread on this forum.......I knew I had to not think and just do it. Often, those are the best ones aren't they?

That stellium you mentioned in Aquarius (Chiron and friends) is in my 12th along with transiting Neptune now opposing natal Pluto in 6. I have a throwing up emoticon which I'd like to add right here to emphasise my utter joy over this and other transits I'm experiencing now and will be for awhile, but I'll spare everyone.......at least for now. :roll:

It sounds like 2000 was a blast off sorta year for you too! Wow.....it seems that in many ways we're sort of doubling and tripling up (are those real words?) on many of these powerful transits. Like times short so OK, we'll just add some extra planets and aspects in there to make sure we don't miss the boat. The 'boat' being of course the big count down to 2012.

I too sense that all of the Centuars are doing so much more for us than I at least am completely aware of. Chiron was the the main ways and means for us to dive into our Shamanic Selves and not only get some personal healing done since 1977, but also collective healings and functioning outside of Saturn Time. I'm remembering Kite's new thread called "Dreamtime" and how Chiron-like functioning in Dreamtime really is.

[23]

I'd like to know more about chiron too.

I have chiron in the first house in aries and it conjuncts my jupiter in the first house in aries. It is the only major body that forms an aspect to my natal venus as well (my natal venus being in the 9th house in Sag). It is also opposed to my natal moon that sits in Libra in the 7th.

In 2003-4, I was having a bad time in my then job. Things were going wrong at the time in every possible way, then work ended. Transiting chiron was squaring my natal moon, then it conjuncted my MC, then it squared my natal chiron, and I think now it is conjunct with natal sun and mercury (10th, cap) and was opposing my natal saturn (4th, cancer). Now it is squaring natal Uranus (7th, libra). Ouch, that all really hurt! It has taken me until now to get over all the baggage and stuff.

[Frisiangal]

[quote]I have already been working in depth on healing issues for the last couple of years, whilst tr. Chiron was in my 11th in Capricorn!

Hello Cara,
I study the effect of the Black Moon Lilith in a chart and I couldn't help wondering if above remark coincided with its placing. Upon checking, Chiron was transiting your 11th house BML on 14* Capricorn beginning
Feb. 2003, retrograding back to it during July, and making its final pass end November 2003. As Natal Moon-Pluto and BML are locked in an inconjunct aspect, whilst natal Chiron and BML are quintile to each other, did this period coincide with when issues that had been plaguing since childhood finally surfaced? The healer you sought finally brought out the natural healer in you?

Without going into details, I am also wondering if the birth and life myth of Chiron also strongly relates in some way to events of your own life.
Chiron in Scorpio square the Leo stellium through Saturn to Moon to BML, would seem to refer to issues concerning emotional neglect, which a young child, too proud to show its feelings to the outer world, built a self protective wall around them in order to survive.

Is my Sun at 29'54 Gemini really considered to be Cancer? I have NEVER identified with the Cancer part of my chart as I feel it is too "squishy" for one thing.

Even though the Sun moved into Cancer within an hour of your birth, Definitely NO! You are an examination degree Gemini Sun. It's very possible that within the months following your birth, a great change took place that had its effect upon the next 30 years of your life. Your name makes me wonder yet again; could it coincide with a physical indispostion that holds you back from relating in general to people, through which the creative energy of how you would otherwise go about that finds expression in your beautiful art work?

How I came into it as part of my own healing process was through what I considered to be an "Initiatory" back injury nearly 2.5 years ago. What was initially follow-up to this injury has turned into an amazing spiritual journey

Back problems are under the rulership of Sun/Leo. Moon in Leo feelings were replaced by Sun in Gemini action?

I know the shaman has to interact with his/her local community to be of service, but this is a huge issue for me now, as I am VERY private, and not happy in my current community.

In my humble opinion, any sort of alternative healing work works best when one *is* detached from emotional involvement. You can serve the community best without holding their Gemini-ruled hands and orchestrating their lives for them (Moon in Leo), but giving them of your knowledge only whilst they are with you. Once the door is closed behind them, you let them go, 'spiritually speaking', otherwise they become a ballast in recharging your own energy. (personal experience talking here :)

I am also aware of the fact that transiting Chiron is going into my 12th house, to oppose my 6th house stellium - what can I expect from that if I have already been on an intensive healing path for the last couple of years?

I would say that it depends upon whether you are, yourself, healed of what it has been that has hurt inside for so long. In myth, Chiron only retreats into his cave (12th house?) when the pain he lives with becomes unendurable. By making the decision to give up his immortality, the pain ends. I see this as giving up a hurt that has lived too long a life and has outserved its purpose. As tr. Chiron opposes your 6th house stellium, you will hopefully be able to put everything behind you....especialy with Saturn transiting Leo at the same time. Both eventually positively aspect your Gemini Sun. Maybe THAT will coincide with the time when you can interrelate with people in the manner that is Gemin's own perfectly natural state of mind. :wink:

F

[cara4art]

"Hello Cara,
I study the effect of the Black Moon Lilith in a chart and I couldn't help wondering if above remark coincided with its placing. Upon checking, Chiron was transiting your 11th house BML on 14* Capricorn beginning
Feb. 2003, retrograding back to it during July, and making its final pass end November 2003. As Natal Moon-Pluto and BML are locked in an inconjunct aspect, whilst natal Chiron and BML are quintile to each other, did this period coincide with when issues that had been plaguing since childhood finally surfaced? The healer you sought finally brought out the natural healer in you?

Without going into details, I am also wondering if the birth and life myth of Chiron also strongly relates in some way to events of your own life.
Chiron in Scorpio square the Leo stellium through Saturn to Moon to BML, would seem to refer to issues concerning emotional neglect, which a young child, too proud to show its feelings to the outer world, built a self protective wall around them in order to survive." - Frisiangal

Many good inputs here! My back injury happened in late September of 2003 while I was on vacation, toward the end of the Chiron-Lilith transit in my 11th house. I had never had any back problems prior to that - I haved exercised very regularly over the last 30+ years, and am not overweight at all. Also, that year was continuing multiple moves in my community, and increasing dissatisfaction with said community, which continues to this day. We have moved 14 times in our village within the last 3.5 years. My husband and I ARE working on a way to get out of here. This rural community in drought-stricken country feels stifling and literally drying-up of my vital force for me. I have been unhappy here for the last 3 years, but my husband was perfectly content here up until fairly recently. Since I have let this out of the bag, he really doesn't want to see me be unhappy for the rest of my life.
About the "issues concerning emotional neglect" this is true in spades - I had a VERY controlling, emotionally abusive mother, which it took intensive psychotherapy to get past! My dad never stood up to her either to protect me, as he was under her thumb, too. Later in life, he drank to try to ease his continuing depression(we all know how well that doesn't work-LOL! As for alcohol, I don't ever drink it!) I was continually told to not ever express my feelings, and every detail of my life was scheduled - I was seldom allowed to just be me, with downtime. As a result, I had chronic bronchitis from ages of 5 up until I was 11. My health improved after that, and especially well before my 1st Saturn return, when I got seriously into health and fitness following a bout with mononucleosis.
The deeper issues I am working on now, however, do not come entirely from this lifetime, however they have been reinforced, esp. in childhood, as my shamanic energy practitioner commented from the very beginning of our time together. It has seemd like a long bout with this work, and just as I feel that I have cleared something major, there's more to come! It's been a slow process - no dramatic breakthroughs for me!
But maybe there's hope, as you mentioned about tr. Chiron coming to oppose my 6th-house stellium, in that I can leave all this behind me!
Again, thanks for your input into this! I'd say from this dialogue that Chiron is indeed hugely important in my chart!

[Arian Maverick]

Well, at least something good thing came out of my natal chart ordeal...I now have Chiron within a degree of my Nadir! :wink:

Beth

[Shimmy26]

And so my quest to step back or up or sideways and try to view Chiron away from my Sun if possible. The main thing I've discovered for me at least with Chiron/Sun conjunction, is that I'm learning how to deal with being conscious of process if that makes any sense. I feel that Chiron teaches us how to keep both eyes wide open and remain in our bodies at all those scarey and painful points when we'd naturally flee the sceen of the crime normally! We'd leave our bodies, we'd leave our minds, we'd just plane leave because its too much. Chiron teaches how to face all of that and move through 'it'.

Lapis, I completely agree with this, as I have a Chiron/Sun conjunction also. This explains quite well why I have almost stopped relating to being a Cancer altogether. When the Chiron wounds get too harsh, I go 'into my shell' in a sense, but it's kind of like I don't ever surface. I basically just consider myself an aloof, indifferent Aquarius (my rising), with some angry Aries (my moon) mixed in. And I've really noticed how much my natal Mercury (Gemini in the 3rd) is kicking in, with the...hmm....how shall I put this? Ability to lie? Anyways, to sum this up, I have almost completely lost touch with my Cancer self (oh crab, please come back to me!).

feeling warm and protected -- and the quest for it -- is a huge issue for Cancers.

Many never leave the psychological womb and create layers of insulation around themselves to protect that warm, soft place and these individuals can become very hardened on the outside.


I second that! Although I always thought that is was my Aquarius rising's indifference acting as my 'hardened outside'. And layers of insulation..........possibly acquired from a Cancer's love for food? :D

[Lapis]

Shimmy26,

Hi, everytime I see your name I wonder if you do shimmy? Being a retired belly dancer, I've put in thousands of miles shimmying! :) How was that for a random thought?

You're a Cancer/Chiron Sun
I'm a Capricorn/Chiron Sun

The Cancer/Capriorn polarity is IMO, a tuff one to deal with. I mean look at what this combo is trying to integrate.......Cancer/Moon the most sensitive and intuitive sign of all 12, The Mother or Goddess energies, profoundly deep feeling nature (which is so important IMO), Home both physically, psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, and nurturing self/all etc.

AND opposite all that is Capricorn/Saturn and vise versa. Capricorn/Saturn the most physical, earthy, compressed, dense, heavy of all the 12 signs, The Father or 'Gods' energies, profound sense of responsibility, manifestating physically, responsibilities, and what 'Power' is all about in 3D.

It's sort of like night and day with these 2. I'd guess that when you do your Cancer thing and go within or retreat, that to keep functioning you slide into your opposite polarity, Capricorn, and that's what might feel so hardened and cold. As you said though, Aquarius isn't all warm and fuzzy naturally either unless they draw upon their opposite Leo heart. I'm just suggesting a deeper look/feel into the Cancer/Capricorn polarity too.

In a Barbara Hand Clow book she uses the keywords "Feeling Deeply" for Cancer and "Taking Power" for Capricorn. The big trick for all Cancers and Capricorns is to figure out how to do both! How to handle power (in different ways) AND at the same time always feel deeply! And vise versa. There's some deep clues with just these keywords she's used.

Now......add Shamanic Chiron conjuncting our Cancer/Capricorn Suns and we've got some deep issues to deal with I feel. Ancient very archetypal Light/Dark, God/Goddess, Mother/Father, Male/Female, Physical Power/Emotional Feelings, Solid/Liquid, etc.

I've been learning all my life about this deep split between these 2 powerful archetypes right down deep inside myself. For me this goes all the way back to ancient Lemuria and later Atlantis where this split originated on this planet I feel, at least within this last phase or cycle. Healing and integrating the split right/left brain and the male/female right inside each of us no matter what our astrological sign or physical sex in this life.

We've all heard the now common term....."The Mind/Body Connection". It's very true that thought (mind) creates what we experience in physicality and our bodies. But, the other half of this 4-some is this Cancer/Capricorn sort of archetypal energies......or The Emotional Feeling/Spiritual Connection! With the rediscovery of Chiron back in 1977 the whole "Body Mind Connection" awareness started for humanity. I'm suggesting that we're having to now take this to the next level and incorporate the archetypal Goddess (Cancer)/Gods (Capricorn) or Emotional Feeling with the Spiritual to complete this 4 way split.

I'm not a religious person but this 4-some this + reminds me of people who cross (+) themselves. They touch their forehead or 3rd Eye chakra drawing upon their abilities to SEE the unseen, and then they touch their heart or Heart chakra drawing upon their abilites to FEEL deeply, and then they touch their right shoulder or side drawing upon their Inner Male Self, and lastly they touch their left shoulder or left side drawing upon their Inner Female Self in a beautiful symbol of +. Equal integration of Higher Vision/Mind/Heart and Male/Female within the physical body.

Who better than Chiron to help reteach us how to do this for ourselves now? :wink:

[Empath]

I'm not a religious person but this 4-some this + reminds me of people who cross (+) themselves. They touch their forehead or 3rd Eye chakra drawing upon their abilities to SEE the unseen, and then they touch their heart or Heart chakra drawing upon their abilites to FEEL deeply, and then they touch their right shoulder or side drawing upon their Inner Male Self, and lastly they touch their left shoulder or left side drawing upon their Inner Female Self in a beautiful symbol of +. Equal integration of Higher Vision/Mind/Heart and Male/Female within the physical body.


Wow. 12 years of Catholic school, and ALL those signs of the cross... and now it finally makes sense!

These days, I consider myself a Recovering Catholic, as opposed to a Roman Catholic, but I think I'll start using the sign of the cross again. Thanks.

BTW, I had the same question about bellydancing when I saw Shimmy's name. Hmmmm... the prominant Chiron/bellydance connection....

[Arian Maverick]

Awesome insight as always, Lapis! I think I have just regained my enthusiasm for doing the sign of the cross (aka "crossing" myself) :mrgreen:

Arian Maverick

[Lapis]

If you look at things through esoteric eyes or just with the thought of.....what in the heck are they doing and why from an energy standpoint, so many of these ancient symbols bust wide open with clear new meanings.

The 'Equal Armed Cross' + meaning just that......equal, balanced, and whole.

I was sitting in my car in a parking lot the other day when this man and his wife got into their car parked infront of me. While he was reaching for his seat belt, like some fast perfected Martial Arts move, he crossed himself twice and did the kiss the thumb thing. I don't mean to sound disrespectful, I just don't know what the kiss the thumb thing means? I just can't get an esoteric connection with kissing the thumb! :roll:

Anyway I understood why he was doing his ritual prior to starting his SUV engine and backing out of the parking space! I chuckled to myself and thought, "Good, at least he's paying attention and called in some Divine protection while driving in southern California!" I do my own version of this little ritual in my car before I put it in reverse in the driveway at home. I ground and connect myself to the 7 sacred directions and after that I wrap up my car in an aura of Light and push it out in all directions.

We both did basically the same things for the same reasons, just in our own ways. :wink: There must be some Chiron Rainbow Bridge sort of connection with this off the wall post!?! :lol:

[sita]

Me too!

I used to hate the idea that I had crossed myself with that holy water. All I could think of was child molestors and woman haters putting their energy into my own personal sacred church. I sound like such a heathen :evil: and I guess in some ways I am. I hated the Church very much (not it's attendees or its followers, though... just the Church. I did make the distrinction between people and the symbolic institution.) I had my own reasons for hating the Church beyond what they preached or practiced: attendance was forced upon me by my dad until I was 18 and could make decisions for myself as a "legal" adult. My dad did have good intentions: raise a faithful, moral person, which he did, but the fact that I was denied my own personal expression and discovery of my spirituality was very harmful to me and carried over into my consciousness to this current day. On some remote levels of pseudo-consciousness, I'm still asking God's forgiveness for even being born referencing that great Catholic Guilt associated with our "Original Sin." To be alive is to be a scourge upon the earth??? Great thing to teach young children.

Grr. Clearly I have a great deal of resentment regarding this that I will come to a higher understanding with, process, and release eventually, but for now, I'm up to my armpits.

Anyway, this gives me a slightly more postive slant on my early development. I can see that I was building bridges of my own consciousness between my eye, my heart, my female and my male, without even realizing it! It feels so natural and comforting to cross myself, regardless of the earlier context in which this connection was established, reminding me that there were some surprisingly positive things that came out of some difficult experiences.

Thanks again, Lapis and all.

Sita

[Sugarflame]

Hi everyone. :D I just recently found out about Chiron myself, and from what I've found online I've only been able to grasp very little about it. All I know about my Chiron is that it's in Cancer in the 7th house. . .if I post my chart, can somebody maybe help me figure out more about it? :? You guys are WAY ahead of me--talking about all these aspects, etc.--I feel so lost! :oops: :lol: But I would like to catch up (or try to, at least), nonetheless. :mrgreen: If anyone could tell me more about my Chiron and where it's placed, what it means, etc., etc., it would be greatly appreciated!!


[img]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a283/like_stripes/astrochart2.gif

[Laura Elizabeth]

5th house moon - I have Chiron @ 18 Pisces (9th house), opposed by Uranus, Pluto, Moon, Mars (12 - 15 degrees, 3rd house) Virgo and I've been pondering what it means as well. I don't have any answers, but I think as we get closer to our Chiron return, more answers will reveal themselves to us, just as they did to those with Chiron in Capricorn and Aquarius. I hope it isn't as eventful as Empath's journey! :D

Does anyone else have Chiron and Venus in tight conjunction? I have a problem differentiating the energies here. Perhaps it's supposed to be that way?

As I said, Chiron is in the 9th - Intellect, Religion, Philosophy. I was raised Catholic but walked away (without anger, just boredom and lack of faith) around 16 - 18. About ten years ago I became more and more aware of Christian Fundamentalism - the really dogmatic Christians - and their attitudes and behavior made me extremely angry. I mean real rage, fury, at people I don't even know. Same holds true Fundamentalists (dogmatists) of any religion. Sometime between 16 and 30 I began forming my own philosophy: I believe that each soul must find it's own path to the divine. Each soul is rigth in it's own choices and so long as it doesn't try to force another soul onto the same path and remains connected to the divine, it should be okay. When I realized how angry I was with people who didn't give others the same free will, I realized I was becoming just like them. I had a good laugh and then consigned them to the divine. They'll find their own way. The pain the cause others in the process pains me, but I have no right to force them off their own path.

The "wounds" I received were in bullying - the process whereby one forces their ways (thoughts and feelings) onto another (which is also why I'm so angry with the Bush administration... but that's another story). I reacted as a kid, and do now, with anger and rage whenever I encounter bullying. It's psychologial warfare as far as I'm concerned and it's deeply cruel. I'm still putting it all together, the lesson of Chiron in the 9th for me, but I think part of it is learning to find a new way of dealing with bullys, dogmatists, fundamentalists, from the heart (Venus) and as well as the mind (9th house) without anger (Mars in Virgo in the 3rd). And so, Lapis, I love this:

I'm not a religious person but this 4-some this + reminds me of people who cross (+) themselves. They touch their forehead or 3rd Eye chakra drawing upon their abilities to SEE the unseen, and then they touch their heart or Heart chakra drawing upon their abilites to FEEL deeply, and then they touch their right shoulder or side drawing upon their Inner Male Self, and lastly they touch their left shoulder or left side drawing upon their Inner Female Self in a beautiful symbol of +. Equal integration of Higher Vision/Mind/Heart and Male/Female within the physical body.

Who better than Chiron to help reteach us how to do this for ourselves now?

Thank you so much. I'm not quite sure what it's telling me, but it's telling me something.

You see, I'm also fighting (tr. Uranus opposed Uranus, Pluto, Mars, Moon) reconnecting to a Church. There is a pull from within towards returning to organized worship, but the fear (Saturn in Pisces) of being pulled under the dogmatic sway of organized religion is very great. Choosing a path to follow may not be enough - reaching out as well as accepting the return - may be in order as well. For me. I don't know about anyone else :D[/b]

[Frisiangal]

- [quote]I have Chiron @ 18 Pisces (9th house), opposed by Uranus, Pluto, Moon, Mars (12 - 15 degrees, 3rd house) Virgo and I've been pondering what it means as well. I don't have any answers, but I think as we get closer to our Chiron return, more answers will reveal themselves to us

Does anyone else have Chiron and Venus in tight conjunction? I have a problem differentiating the energies here. Perhaps it's supposed to be that way?

The myth of Chiron is the opposite of that of Jesus of Nazareth.
Chiron in Pisces always inclines me to think that they fuse to become one and the same. Their pain is the pain of humanity, their suffering is that of mankind, not of Self. With your Venus in Pisces conjunct, associated with sacrificial love for your fellow man, I should imagine that you can empathise and even personify with both. :)

F.

[Lapis]

Laura Elizabeth,

I could so relate to your post and I've never been involved with any 'church' or 'religion'! To understand your Chiron in Pisces in 9 opposite Uranus, Pluto, Moon and Mars.......just reread your post as if it was written by someone else. It's all there in your post, then come back in a couple of days and reread it again. It's an amazing and telling post.

With the 2 outer planets- Uranus and Pluto- in opposition to Chiron, I get the sense (I'm going off into Lapis Land with this only because it jumped out and yelled at me!) that you've had a few past lives where you were possibly a nun and in another a male in a group of people who had a lot of power over another group of religious people. People were killed, wounded, damaged in various ways, mainly because of religious and power issues. Nothing new here! (Please understand that we've all played these different roles over the Ages. I've swung many a sword in a couple of lives and was really good at it! I don't mean to sound like I've singled you out here at all. I just have to discern whether I should say anything about what I 'recieve' or not?)

Moon and Mars......possibly the 'nun' and the 'warrior' and much more of course. What I'm struggling to say is, I'm getting the feeling that this issue has been experinced in both a female life and a male one. They were very, very, different but it was the same core issue basically. The quest for spirituality through a religion verses the whole negative power control and manipulations done by and to those with physical power.

And now it feels to me that you, like so many of us, are taking this massive multiple issue from numerous past or other 'lives' and healing, integrating, processing all of these ancient female and male wounds both physical and deep emotional psychological wounds. The mental image I get with all of this is that in this life at the end of numerous cosmic cycles, you've scooped up all of these female, male, victim, victimizer, wounded, one who's wounded others etc. and are processing ALL of this now. Why? Because you're going for the Gold because it's time and the energies are completely right for it all. This is true for all of us in these lives now!!! :wink:

Might I suggest that you continue "fighting reconnecting to a Church."
I haven't seen your natal as yet but you mentioned that you're in the Uranus Opposition now too. Wow.......try letting 'Uranus Opposition' do what it does and help you clear out (energetically, emotionally and physically if necessary) all those old wounds and woundings etc. Use this energy to Alchemically burn through these old 'issues' now and let THE Church wait to see who you are on the other side of Uranus Opposition. Remember Chiron and Uranus connect in wonderful ways, so give your Initiation time to play itself out, because you already have far more than any 'church' right inside your Heart. I sure hope I haven't crossed a line with this post, but like I said, it jumped out and yelled at me. My Chiron talking to your Chiron. :)

[Kite]

Oh Chiron you half animal half human wounded excuse of a process.

I can't believe you take my kitten to re-open wounds of senseless loss and abandonment. How can one reconcile the unfathonable?

We can intellectualize forever and more, but soothing the wound of love destroyed? Since when do you take on roles of Neptunian flavor? Dissolving the crutch of unconditional love. Dis-illusioning a friend I could count on?

How dare you insert a lesson of despair. One targeted at surrender. Aimed at the heart. Diverted to the in-between.

Your arrows dipped in poison are death-defying in their reflection but death inflicting in their demonstration. So the lesson is counting on nothing and the test is giving up everything.

I am Job in the whirlwind. Cursing God's will to destroy all that I love. For the fun of it. For the joy of it. For the rock bottom thrill of it. To know I'm alive and that my cat is not.

How can one heal from the unhealable? No rationalization will suffice to remove the vacuum of the missing purr.

Kite

[Laura Elizabeth]

- I have Chiron @ 18 Pisces (9th house), opposed by Uranus, Pluto, Moon, Mars (12 - 15 degrees, 3rd house) Virgo and I've been pondering what it means as well. I don't have any answers, but I think as we get closer to our Chiron return, more answers will reveal themselves to us

Does anyone else have Chiron and Venus in tight conjunction? I have a problem differentiating the energies here. Perhaps it's supposed to be that way?

The myth of Chiron is the opposite of that of Jesus of Nazareth.
Chiron in Pisces always inclines me to think that they fuse to become one and the same. Their pain is the pain of humanity, their suffering is that of mankind, not of Self. With your Venus in Pisces conjunct, associated with sacrificial love for your fellow man, I should imagine that you can empathise and even personify with both. :)

F.

Frisiangal, I'm going to have to re-read and then re-think Chiron and Jesus. You see, I saw them as telling the same story in different ways, not being opposites.

I can empathise; detachment is difficult. I understand why, or I guess I should say how, people become homeless; or addicted to substances (food, alcohol, drugs, shopping, etc); anger, power, hatred, bigotry - I get how human beings get there. What I don't get is how to get them back - and it's frustrating.

At the same time I know that without suffering the soul never learns. It's hard to explain. I don't like it, but I know that suffering is good for learning. It opens both the heart and mind to comprehending, feeling, others, to putting them into someone elses place. The problem is human beings get so caught up in their own individual suffering they cannot look beyond themselves and see that others are in the same place and that together they can survive... that's what 12 step programs are supposed to be about, but they don't solve the problems either.

I'm making no sense, I know. It's frustrating. I can never get these points across. I've always assumed it is, in part, because of the tight conjunctions and oppositions in my chart. It's difficult to differentiate the thoughts. And with Mercury in Aries, I have no patience for not being able to quickly, clearly and concisly explain what I mean :D You did a much better job:

Their pain is the pain of humanity, their suffering is that of mankind, not of Self.

[Laura Elizabeth]

Laura Elizabeth,

I could so relate to your post and I've never been involved with any 'church' or 'religion'! To understand your Chiron in Pisces in 9 opposite Uranus, Pluto, Moon and Mars.......just reread your post as if it was written by someone else. It's all there in your post, then come back in a couple of days and reread it again. It's an amazing and telling post.

Thank you. I did re-read it and I'll do so again. I think I'm getting it.

With the 2 outer planets- Uranus and Pluto- in opposition to Chiron, I get the sense (I'm going off into Lapis Land with this only because it jumped out and yelled at me!) that you've had a few past lives where you were possibly a nun and in another a male in a group of people who had a lot of power over another group of religious people. People were killed, wounded, damaged in various ways, mainly because of religious and power issues. Nothing new here! (Please understand that we've all played these different roles over the Ages. I've swung many a sword in a couple of lives and was really good at it! I don't mean to sound like I've singled you out here at all. I just have to discern whether I should say anything about what I 'recieve' or not?)

I'm not sure where I stand on reincarnation. When I was a child my Grandfather and I would talk about issues of faith. I don't really remember the exact words any longer, but the conversations would go on and on and my questions would get more and more intense and he'd always come back to faith. I'd keep asking why, looking for rational answers, he'd come back with faith. And then, not as an admonisment, but a gentle way of ending my endless questions, he'd gently poke me in the side and say: You are Thomas and smile. I eventually asked what he meant - I got the conversation was over, I just didn't know what he meant. He asked me who Thomas was - I said he was the disciple who didn't believe Jesus rose from the dead until he put his hands in the wounds. My Grandfather just smiled. It took a while, but I got it. I'm Thomas. I have to put my hands in the wounds - I have to have proof - before I believe. So, for me to believe in reincarnation, I'd have to have real proof that I had been before. I don't.

However, I don't dismiss it either. It's possible. Anything in life not proven to be completely impossible, is possible. And - you're not the first person to tell me about my past life as a Nun, Priest, and Warrior - that I've used faith and power as both a tool and a weapon - that I'm here to solve this, finally.

But you see... I have no proof, so I'm afraid to make a leap of faith :mrgreen: I also cannot even being to guess where to start.

Moon and Mars......possibly the 'nun' and the 'warrior' and much more of course. What I'm struggling to say is, I'm getting the feeling that this issue has been experinced in both a female life and a male one. They were very, very, different but it was the same core issue basically. The quest for spirituality through a religion verses the whole negative power control and manipulations done by and to those with physical power.

And now it feels to me that you, like so many of us, are taking this massive multiple issue from numerous past or other 'lives' and healing, integrating, processing all of these ancient female and male wounds both physical and deep emotional psychological wounds. The mental image I get with all of this is that in this life at the end of numerous cosmic cycles, you've scooped up all of these female, male, victim, victimizer, wounded, one who's wounded others etc. and are processing ALL of this now. Why? Because you're going for the Gold because it's time and the energies are completely right for it all. This is true for all of us in these lives now!!! :wink:

Might I suggest that you continue "fighting reconnecting to a Church."
I haven't seen your natal as yet but you mentioned that you're in the Uranus Opposition now too. Wow.......try letting 'Uranus Opposition' do what it does and help you clear out (energetically, emotionally and physically if necessary) all those old wounds and woundings etc. Use this energy to Alchemically burn through these old 'issues' now and let THE Church wait to see who you are on the other side of Uranus Opposition. Remember Chiron and Uranus connect in wonderful ways, so give your Initiation time to play itself out, because you already have far more than any 'church' right inside your Heart. I sure hope I haven't crossed a line with this post, but like I said, it jumped out and yelled at me. My Chiron talking to your Chiron. :)

You didn't cross any lines. You gave me a lot to think about. Which I always love! Thanks so much!

[Laura Elizabeth]

How can one heal from the unhealable? No rationalization will suffice to remove the vacuum of the missing purr.

I am so sorry. You are right.

Your arrows dipped in poison are death-defying in their reflection but death inflicting in their demonstration. So the lesson is counting on nothing and the test is giving up everything.

But I have to disagree with you here.

You can count on the next cat that comes into your life to give you the same unconditional love your missing cat has always given you. The fur, the eyes, the personality will be different, but the love will be the same. You will receive the same love in return that you give the next cat who comes to you, just as the love you got from the missing cat is the reflection of the love you gave him (her). Giving up on everything means living without love.

But you know that. It just hurts so bad, not knowing what happened. I'm hoping he (I keep saying "he" because my furbabies are all boys. All Boy!) will come back. Sadly he won't be able to tell you where he's been or why he wandered off.

[Frisiangal]

[quote="Laura ElizabethFrisiangal, I'm going to have to re-read and then re-think Chiron and Jesus. You see, I saw them as telling the same story in different ways, not being opposites.

I agree with you; they tell the same story but their lives were opposite in its telling.

Both were the sons of (a) god and brought up by 'pseudo'-parents. One was born into poverty as a mortal, the other as a fully-fledged god on Olympus and, thus, immortal. Both were teachers. One taught peace and used natural healing through the hands, the other the arts of war and healing through natural herbs (homeopathy). One remained single, the other married. Each suffered an agony before dying to save mankind, one nailed to a cross, the other tied to a wheel. The one gave up his human mortality to rise to immortality as the son of God; the other gave up his godly immortality for human mortality.


From your reply to Lapis:
I'm Thomas. I have to put my hands in the wounds - I have to have proof - before I believe.

You can't be; that's what I have always called myself :) I know exactly what you mean and how you feel. Do you have a large Earth element in your chart apart from the Virgo planets? I'm an Earth Sun, Moon, Asc., Mercury, Venus, Chiron and Black Moon Lilith....and POF also in 9th!
Brought up in Christianity but never a church-goer, Astrology has been my way to get the 'proof', as intangible as it is at times. I've found that, often, it's just a question of seeing it and instead of thinking, 'it can't be', realising 'it is.' :wink:

F.

[Laura Elizabeth]

I agree with you; they tell the same story but their lives were opposite in its telling.

Both were the sons of (a) god and brought up by 'pseudo'-parents. One was born into poverty as a mortal, the other as a fully-fledged god on Olympus and, thus, immortal. Both were teachers. One taught peace and used natural healing through the hands, the other the arts of war and healing through natural herbs (homeopathy). One remained single, the other married. Each suffered an agony before dying to save mankind, one nailed to a cross, the other tied to a wheel. The one gave up his human mortality to rise to immortality as the son of God; the other gave up his godly immortality for human mortality.

Oh! Ok, now I understand what you meant.

From your reply to Lapis:
I'm Thomas. I have to put my hands in the wounds - I have to have proof - before I believe.

You can't be; that's what I have always called myself :) I know exactly what you mean and how you feel. Do you have a large Earth element in your chart apart from the Virgo planets? I'm an Earth Sun, Moon, Asc., Mercury, Venus, Chiron and Black Moon Lilith....and POF also in 9th!
Brought up in Christianity but never a church-goer, Astrology has been my way to get the 'proof', as intangible as it is at times. I've found that, often, it's just a question of seeing it and instead of thinking, 'it can't be', realising 'it is.' :wink:

F.

I have no air planets, and only one planet in fire - Mercury (10th) - otherwise:

Moon, Mars, Uranus, Pluto in Virgo, 3rd house; Jupiter in Taurus 11th; POF is 8 Capricorn, BML is 15 Capricorn and Lilith is 17 Capricorn (7th house) :)
Saturn, Chiron, Venus, Sun in Pisces, 9th house; Neptune in Scorpio 5th house; Cancer ASC

[Arian Maverick]

I have no air planets, and only one planet in fire - Mercury (10th)

Wow! I just checked your natal chart in the Introductory Board (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1306) and I am certainly intrigued by these findings!

I wasn't sure whether to appoint Jupiter or the Moon as your chart ruler as thus give it an extra emphasis in the chart, but I believe this is besides the point (pun intended :P ). Mercury is thrice a singleton--by modality, element, and polarity! I highly recommend that you read the article Mercury as a Singleton on The Astrology Club (http://www.astrologyclub.org/), a link Lunar Pisces gave us on the Chart Assistance Board (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1304).

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/5492/schart5qg.png (http://imageshack.us)

Arian Maverick

P.S. I think we should include Chiron in this system, traditional technique or not...what do you say?

[Shimmy26]

Sorry for the late post.......shall I blame it on Mercury Retrograde? :| My computer has been acting up, getting viruses, freezing, among other things.

Those were some amazing insights Lapis, from a few posts back. It never even crossed my mind to look to the polarities concerning Chiron, but after you mentioned it, it makes so much more sense to me now. Hopefully the power of yoga will cure me. :wink: Ok, so that's just wishfull thinking, but yoga really does make some things better.

P.S. - belly dancer no, tap dancer yes :D . Shimmy is just an old random nickname of mine (my real name being Shona, which creates an abundance of nicknames, trust me), and I was born on the 26th of June, so that explains my screen name.

[Light]

Shimmy


Nothing to do with Chiron....


- belly dancer no, tap dancer yes Me too! :D

but with all the talk of belly dancing on these boards, I should give it a whirl, really. :wink:

take care

hel

[Laura Elizabeth]

Arian Maverick, thanks for the chart and the link. I thought Mercury was a singleton in my chart, but three times? And the Moon is the chart ruler for me.

[Kite]

But you know that. It just hurts so bad, not knowing what happened. I'm hoping he (I keep saying "he" because my furbabies are all boys. All Boy!) will come back. Sadly he won't be able to tell you where he's been or why he wandered off.

No Laura Elizabeth I do know what happened. My neighbor has a security camera and caught the coyote leaving with my cat.

I have to believe this is related to my Chiron return. Transiting Chiron conjuncted my natal Chiron exactly within the minute within hours of this event. With Chiron in 12 it opposes my Uranus in 6 which is in Leo but the 6th house is ruled by Cancer. My emotions have taken a hit from this and there is a heaviness of heart I didn't feel when my own mother died within the last year. There's something about losing a pet you've raised since it was only a few weeks old that breaks your heart like nothing else.

This little guy was so much fun it hurt. He would steal q-tips from the counter and play with them like a dog with a bone. He would bat around acorns like soccer balls and jump on the bed everytime it was about to be made so we could throw the bedspread over him.

He would jump on my lap and cuddle with me everyday as I work from home. What a horror to see innocent life wiped out and erased like that. This is the clue to my Chiron wound I think. I need to understand the depth of this feeling and why it affects me so. I know it's not just the loss of my kitten. Perhaps it related to other innocent life erased that I either experienced or strongly empathized with. A recent past life regression session gave me clues and I can easily imagine that I saw innocent life - including my own wiped out and erased for no logical reason other than the strong imposing their will on the weak.

Kite

[Frisiangal]

Ihave to believe this is related to my Chiron return. Transiting Chiron conjuncted my natal Chiron exactly within the minute within hours of this event. .................

...............I can easily imagine that I saw innocent life - including my own wiped out and erased for no logical reason other than the strong imposing their will on the weak.

Kite


I think you hit the nail on the head, Kite. Now that you have admitted the reason behind your deepest pain, you can finally deal and come to terms with it. In that respect, your dear cat did not die in vain and gave you his greatest gift in exchange for yours...... Life.

As a matter of interest, do you have anything on the 6th degree of any sign that could refer to your attitude in general but as related to your cat?

C.

[Kite]

As a matter of interest, do you have anything on the 6th degree of any sign that could refer to your attitude in general but as related to your cat?

I have Uranus in 6 at 6Leo37. If you mean Sabian 6 , I have Mercury in 11 in 5Cap15.

[Laura Elizabeth]

But you know that. It just hurts so bad, not knowing what happened. I'm hoping he (I keep saying "he" because my furbabies are all boys. All Boy!) will come back. Sadly he won't be able to tell you where he's been or why he wandered off.

No Laura Elizabeth I do know what happened. My neighbor has a security camera and caught the coyote leaving with my cat.

I have to believe this is related to my Chiron return. Transiting Chiron conjuncted my natal Chiron exactly within the minute within hours of this event. With Chiron in 12 it opposes my Uranus in 6 which is in Leo but the 6th house is ruled by Cancer. My emotions have taken a hit from this and there is a heaviness of heart I didn't feel when my own mother died within the last year. There's something about losing a pet you've raised since it was only a few weeks old that breaks your heart like nothing else.

This little guy was so much fun it hurt. He would steal q-tips from the counter and play with them like a dog with a bone. He would bat around acorns like soccer balls and jump on the bed everytime it was about to be made so we could throw the bedspread over him.

He would jump on my lap and cuddle with me everyday as I work from home. What a horror to see innocent life wiped out and erased like that. This is the clue to my Chiron wound I think. I need to understand the depth of this feeling and why it affects me so. I know it's not just the loss of my kitten. Perhaps it related to other innocent life erased that I either experienced or strongly empathized with. A recent past life regression session gave me clues and I can easily imagine that I saw innocent life - including my own wiped out and erased for no logical reason other than the strong imposing their will on the weak.

Kite

I'm sorry - I was so hoping he'd be back.

[Lapis]

Kite,

Big hugs to you during your deep period of Chirotic pain/healings/rebirth to another level.

I can now speak about this issue because you've connected the pieces.

During my Chiron Return I too went through a few Cat Horrors that touched me like not much else could. If our deep hearts need to be opened and cleaned out for whatever the reason/reasons, Chiron will take us there fast. And for me personally, cats and kittens are sacred much beloved territory.

My heartbreaking and rage inducing Cat/Kitten/Chiron Return experiences started before the actual 'return' but repeated a few times throughout in slightly different ways. The lessons, the pains, the heartbreak and rage was pretty much the same however. Then, like you, I made the connections that I personally needed to make. Soon after that this whole insane horrific business stopped. I can't even say anymore about this, but I wish you a fast heart healing.

[Kite]

Thanks Lapis, Laura Elizabeth and Frisiangal. I guess it is over because a reporter from the local Fox station called me wanting to do a story on this and Animal Control's unwillingness to do anything about containing the coyote problem.

I had photos of my cat ready to go for the story although I felt the coyote was simply being itself and doing it's best to survive in an area that was his and then built over.

My neighbor who had taped the event through his security camera arranged for all this and then when the news team showed up he found that tape was in a loop so it had already been taped over.

I'm glad.

Kite

[Shimmy26]

Kite, I am deeply sorry for your loss. I am a fellow cat-lover myself, having three cats at the moment, four total in my lifetime, and volunteering regularly at a cat shelter. Things like this should not happen, but as they say, "everything happens for a reason", and you seem to have found it out. And even though this is a terrible thing, you at least know what happened to your cat (even though horrific), rather than living on wondering. My heart goes out to you.

P.S. - the description you gave of your cat sounded amazingly like one of mine - playing with the q-tips and under the sheets on the bed (and what a stubborn Taurus he is :) ). I don't want to make you dwell on this subject more than needed, but just curious, after reading the cat astrology article on this site, what was your cat's sign?

[Kite]

Shimmy - thanks for your kind words. I think he was a Virgo that wanted to be a Leo. We have 3 other cats and a dog and all of our animals have lived long lives so this was especially hard.

[Empath]

Kite -- I really emphasize with you about the kitty -- and the Chiron... we're outer planet buddies; our birthdays are just a little over 3 weeks apart!

I've been doing some crazy tapdancing with Chiron, Neptune, and Saturn!!
I'm ready for a lovely waltz...

[Kite]

Hey Empath - I empathize with you :wink:

It's nice to see a familiar chart :)

We'll miss our cat but life goes on and I'm sure we'll meet again if we need to.

Kite

[Lapis]

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5294/s3majorlifetransits7sv.jpg

This is from Barbara Hand Clow's book Chiron - Rainbow Bridge Between the Inner and Outer Planets 1987.

I really like these type of images because it helps me at least, to more clearly understand what these 3 major life transits present. At the bottom of this pyramid is the layer or plane of the "Physical" and is the period from birth to 29-31 when we reach our Saturn Return, and she calls this a "physical crisis". (Sorry the image distorted here)

Then from age 30 through the whole decade of our 30s we're living within that second pyramidal layer she calles "Emotional or Astral" which makes a ton of sense if you've already been there, done that and know it's true! This decade leads one up to the Uranus Opposition at age 39-43ish where we enter the phase of, what she calls, "emotional crisis". Our society calls this the "mid life crisis".

From age 40 we spend that decade of our 40s in the 3rd pyramidal layer that she's calling "Mental" where we're functiong and learning from this level. Then at age 49-51 we reach our Chiron Return and enter the phase she's calling a "consciousness crisis". From the age of 50 on we have the opportunity, if we've done all the preceeding physical, emotional/astral and then mental work.......we will hopefully spend the remainder of our days on this planet living in the top portion of this pyramid. What she calls the "soul" plane or level. BUT, only if we'd gone through Chiron Return and solved his dilemma and gotten past our fears of dying etc.

Then it seems we've earned the ability and awareness to function from the soul level or plane where she's got Uranus, Neptune and Pluto placed at the top of this life pyramid. After our Chiron Return, we cross that Rainbow Bridge and have far more conscious awareness of these Outer planets. Notice how the physical playing field just keeps getting smaller and smaller as we age and move up this symbolic pyramid, into the higher realms.

This post's for Kite who doing an amazing job right now with his Chiron Return Initiation. http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/3667/wizardemo0gq.gif

[Kite]

This post's for Kite who doing an amazing job right now with his Chiron Return Initiation.


Thanks Lapis! It's nice to a gold star every once in awhile. Obviously though, Chiron has gotten a lot of help from from those three at the top. I've Pluto conjunct Sun, Neptune conjunct Ascendant and Uranus conjunct Saturn for awhile as well for the past couple of years.

Now with everything moving on except Chiron, I feel like it's the scene in Star Wars where Luke duals with Darth Vader - knowing it's his father.

John Williams, where are you when I need you?

Kite

[Kite]

Interesting article on Chiron The Cosmic Savings Account (http://www.alphalifetrends.com/sys-tmpl/chiron/)

[Kite]

Also, check this one out The Great Transition In Human Development
(http://www.awakentruth.org/lectures/75.html)
This one really hit home with me as I caught a glimpse of this wholeness when I was in Israel in 1977. It lasted but a moment but has been my guiding force to go through the work suggested in this article. I know Chiron was involved as it was discovered that year and making it's first square to it's own place.

Kite

[Empath]

When I first had a chart cast, I was told I had a T-square (moon Taurus opp Nept Scorp, Uraunus Leo opp Asc)

Oh no, I said, I have a Grand cross. There is something that sits of that ascendent; I can feel it.

Then I had my chart recast w/ Chiron -- and it is within 2 minutes of a degree of my ascendent.

All my life, I've had little bouts with little sores that just refused to heal (not a diabetic type of thing). I would leave the area alone, then the hair would try to break through the scar tissue and I'd fedl compelled to no recourse but to pick it. Most of my life there would be a spot like that.

I found out recently that's a form of psoriasis.
All my life, I just thought I was a little neurotic.
But really, it's all about that Chiron.

Wounded healer -- wounds on the appearance (1st house)

Then Neptune crossed the ascendent; Pluto crossed my late Scorpio stellium, -- AND my 4 deg Sag Saturn, Saturn traversed my 6th house -- and Chiron pushed through my 12th house, returning to his natal position -- and my whole appearance went crazy. Wounds erupted hands, feet, head, rashes all over, hair fell out. This January, the drs told me they thought I had lung cancer.
Chiron shouting "I'm HERE!!!!"

No wonder I kept my head in Neptunian clouds (and smoked a lot of cigs)!

Emerged from the fog, ditched the cigs (11/4/4)
Got me a homeopathic derm
got Reiki activations I and II
got a lot of Reiki work
Got a ton of bodywork
do a lot of energy work
got a new job

Found this forum

Process my stuff -- and jump in the pool with others -- all over the place here

Chiron, Chiron, I hear you and I listen!!!

[Laura Elizabeth]

Thanks for the links to both of those articles Kite ~ I hadn't come across them before.

[Lapis]

Empath,

Wow.....what a story. I find it so interesting that those of us with prominent natal Chiron's intuitively felt, sensed, that there was something there long before we ever consciously knew that Chiron even existed! I too wonder for many years about what turned out to be natal Chiron only 3 degrees off my Sun. As soon as I'd learned a bit about the basics on Chiron, a lot of mysteries fell into place easily.

And transiting Chiron today is at 8 + Aquarius with yours natally at 7 Aquarius 2' and Asc at 6 Aquarius 59'. Wow again......take a deep breath and be happy! What a lot of physical body and health issues it sounds like you've resolved super fast. Good ol' Chiron Return......next you'll probably go well beyond the surface meanings of the 1st house/Asc which it sounds like you're also doing with all the ET type experiences etc.

No doubt that people with Chiron in natal locations like yours and mine, or any number of other powerful connections to angles and/or strong planets etc., will go through even more intense Chiron Return periods. Oh, and before I forget, congrats on quiting smoking also. I quit too 2-8-98.

I get the feeling that people like you and Kite and so many others who are going through a major life transit like Chiron Return at the same time as Pluto conjuncting the Galactic Center, are blasting through numerous large and potent life issues in a super compressed time period. It must really feel like a Shamanically induced near death experience and probably is in different ways, but just think of what's coming on the other side of these rock-your-world transits? :mrgreen:

[Arian Maverick]

I have my natal Chiron in my fourth house of Cancer, only slightly more than a degree conjunct my Nadir. I too have become interested in this planetoid lately and even created a new thread called Chiron Conjunct the Nadir (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1555)...what might its placement indicate in my chart?

Arian Maverick

[Empath]

I have my natal Chiron in my fourth house of Cancer, only slightly more than a degree conjunct my Nadir

AM, my intuitive reaction is that you are working on healing issues related your mother, your home, your ability to be "at home in the world". For some reason, I get that you might be very talented with your hands -- crafty, an intuitive seamstress, decorator -- you can heal others by creating a healing environment for them.

Just a blast from the left side of my brain for you, AM...

I get the feeling that people like you and Kite and so many others who are going through a major life transit like Chiron Return at the same time as Pluto conjuncting the Galactic Center, are blasting through numerous large and potent life issues in a super compressed time period. It must really feel like a Shamanically induced near death experience and probably is in different ways, but just think of what's coming on the other side of these rock-your-world transits?

Lapis, indeed times are compressed -- for me and everyone else, it seems. I am fascinated by the galactic center -- in fact, I have a beautiful Hubble image of it as my PC wallpaper! My mind expands when I look upon the star field and the bright, enticing core at the center, and consider that the image contains so many stars, galaxies , planets, that I am looking upon a field of objects so numerous that my human brain can't fathom...

Transiting Neptune is at 19 Aq - what will happen when Chiron meets up with it?

Today
Chiron crossed Lilith (at 8deg35 AQ, it's Chiron's "soul sister" in my chart)

I've had a recurring image...
I sit just outside a cliffside cave, gathering around the fire. It is sunset, and Lilith brings some water to drink as Chiron stokes the fire.
Sit down, they say We have much to show you and stories to share....

[Frisiangal]

Empath wrote:

Chiron, Chiron, I hear you and I listen!!!

Reading your story brought (nit)picking Virgo and Pisces to mind . Peeking at your chart in the chart thread, you have a Jupiter in Virgo-Mars in Pisces opposition, with MA= AS-CH-BML/MO. Picking is a form of self-mutilation, isn't it? Self trying to rid itself of that which makes it imperfect?

Today
Chiron crossed Lilith (at 8deg35 AQ, it's Chiron's "soul sister" in my chart)

I've had a recurring image...
I sit just outside a cliffside cave, gathering around the fire. It is sunset, and Lilith brings some water to drink as Chiron stokes the fire.
Sit down, they say We have much to show you and stories to share....

What a beautiful image. I do so hope for you that you are finally able to bring up where your 'sores' originated from, and face them, through allowing the water of emotion to soothe the pain and false images of Lilith, the 'unaccepted' inner child in you, and the wisdom of experience in Lilith and Chiron to heal you.

My study has shown that Lilith often rises through the meaning of the opposing sign. In your case, this would be Leo. Could you say you have finally accepted yourself as you are and that you feel the warmth and strength of that camp fire finally glowing within you?

F.

[Empath]

What a beautiful image. I do so hope for you that you are finally able to bring up where your 'sores' originated from, and face them, through allowing the water of emotion to soothe the pain and false images of Lilith, the 'unaccepted' inner child in you, and the wisdom of experience in Lilith and Chiron to heal you.

My study has shown that Lilith often rises through the meaning of the opposing sign. In your case, this would be Leo. Could you say you have finally accepted yourself as you are and that you feel the warmth and strength of that camp fire finally glowing within you?


Wow. Frisiangal, I've said this somewhere else, this site is better than therapy! Thank you for your insight. It resonates like a gong.

My inner meanderings with Chiron and Lilith (by the cave on a high cliff) began several weeks ago, shortly before I joined this forum and I really knew anything about Lilith, let alone her close proximity to Chiron in my chart. (I joined this forum specifically because of the Chiron thread!)

I would meditate on Chiron and I would go to this place and then this woman would come up the cliffside path, carrying water. She wears furs and appears to be a crone from a distance but as she nears I see that she is beautiful, dark, with very wise eyes and an earthy, wild appearance.

I wondered who she was... she felt like an entity outside of myself, or maybe a projected facet of my self.

Now I know.
I was finally ready to meet Lilith.

What a lovely introduction! I see only beauty and strength in Lilith. We three -- Chiron, Lilith, and my Self -- all share experiences of pain, unacceptance, and world-weariness -- but in our caveside paradise, we stoke eternal flames and pierce the somber evening quiet with giggles and belly laughs...

[Frisiangal]

[quote].........I would go to this place and then this woman would come up the cliffside path, carrying water. She wears furs and appears to be a crone from a distance but as she nears I see that she is beautiful, dark, with very wise eyes and an earthy, wild appearance.

In the week before I was astrologically introduced to Lilith, two things occured. One was the solar eclipse exact my 12th house Jupiter (ruler my I.C.) The second was a visit to a garden centre in U.K. because my husband wanted a statuette for our garden. We saw nothing we liked and then my eye fell upon this, perhaps two feet high, statue of a young Nubian girl, slightly provocative yet decently clad, carrying a water pitcher in her hand. She is not a woman, there is nothing 'sexy' about her but just the opposite; she is in a rather modest, almost shy pose with her head turned towards her left shoulder. 3 days later we returned home with her, where a Lilith article from a fellow astrologer who thought 'it might be of interest to you' was waiting for me.

The statuette is my personification of the young pre-puberty Lilith. One day, when in doubt regarding my feelings towards my study, I looked at her in the garden. At precisely that moment the sun caught her from what seemed an impossible angle, through my front to my back window onto the garden. In that less than a minute of brightness, it was as if she glowed. As an 'Earthy' person for whom 'seeing is believing', it provided the answer, although rationally speaking it was pure co-incidence. :)

We both see Lilith carrying a water container, although the water isn't physically apparent. Water is astrologically associated with feelings, the container with Saturn. Lilith so very strongly seems to describe feelings that are, and always have been there, that are carried within and hidden from physical view by Saturn's rules of authority and acceptance.
I think that's a striking image we share of the two sides of Lilith, don't you ? Like you, I have a Chiron-BML -ASC. conjunction.

F.

[Lapis]

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4180/chironwalking9hj.gif

[Empath]

Lapis,
Sweet gif! Now all we need is Frisiangal's Lilith statue and we can all hang out by the fire at my clifftop cave! :D

[Lapis]

" Because Chiron has such an elliptical orbit, it has been forming oppositions to Saturn on and off since 1986; the final exact opposition is during Summer Soltice 2006, and the opposition is still in orb through June 2007. Thus, for 20 years Saturn has been structuring the healing powers of Chiron, while Chiron has been forcing us all to go into deep wounds in our private and public lives. This opposition has been so potent that it birthed and matured that alternative healing movement, and as it moves off, allopathic medicine has fallen into a swill of manipulative drugging and planned obsolescence of American health. The physical condition of the American populace has never been worse because the greedy medical and corporate cabal conspires to profit, not cure, and a large percentage of the people have learned they must take care of their own bodies. This issue will be major during this Spring Equinox quarter (2006) since all of you must see how fear is marketed to rope you into becoming a consumer of medicine......."

".......Neptune went into Aquarius in early 1998, and it is in Aquarius through Feb. 2012; this makes it the signature planet of the Galactic Alignment in 1998 and of the whole Galactic Underworld, January 5, 1999 through Oct. 28, 2011. When Neptune is in Aquarius, we find spiritual connection through personal transformation, and as the recent gross materialism drops away, your spiritual growth will be your only reliable fuel......"
************************************************** *******************

These were just a couple of paragraphs that I wanted to share, they're from Barbara Hand Clow's latest New Moon article. As is usual, the time lines with these long running transits just fit together like the perfect cosmic jig-saw puzzles they are. Here's a link to the whole article.

www.handclow2012.com/astroflash.htm

[johan]

40

The little planet Chiron

Now,thanks to the computer there is an ephemeris available so that every astrologer can place it into the horoscope,it is useful,to tell something more about him.His orb swings between those of Uranus and Saturn,which he crosses now and then.He has a middleline of only 400 English miles and that is why he also is considered to be one of the planetoids or fragments of the planet Lucifer(Mallona).He was discovered in 1977 on a picture of the sky and found again,before unnoticed,on one of 1895.His agreed glyph is the image shown above: a standing mooncrescent with two straight stripes through the lowest half of it.This reminds of the tarotcard the Hierophant,a wise man between two pillars with a mooncrescent as an ornament.It means,that twe two poles(animus and anima,or yin and yang) have to fuse to a unity by the conscious thinking(the Moon).The two lines can also indicate the crossed orbs of Uranus and Saturn(In thinking in analogies a symbol has always many meanings at the same time!).
In Greek mythology Chiron was the name of a centaur.The first centaur was the son of Saturn and Philyra(a daughter of Oceanus).To hide his unfaithfulness for his spouse,Saturn had changed himself into a horse with the begetting.That's why the descendant consisted of a human upper part and a horse lower part,so a human,strongly afflicted with animal powers.At first this is experienced as a twoness,in which in turn the one half and the other half predominate.First the centaur thrives for the mastering of the horsehalf by the humanhalf,later to the becoming one of both halfs(individuation).So at the same time nature and civilization,instinct and logic,body and soul,soul and spirit and so on.
In mythology Chiron was the educator of many young heroes.He teached them ethics(difference between good and evil),medical science,but also the hunt and warfare.All this is typical for Sagittarius,the archer,who according to the myth was placed in the sky when Chiron,who had enough of his incurable wound,traded his immortality for the mortality of the suffering Prometheus,who was redeemed of his rock(to a certain myth).He got this wound on a wedding,where the heroes fired upon the drunk centaurs and Heracles accidently hit his master's ankle with a poisonous arrow.Despite his knowledge of medical science,Chiron couldnot heal himself.And back than one saw death as a simple transition,not like an enemy who one has to fight to the end,like so many physicians nowadays.
Chiron,a brother of Jupiter(Zeus) and Pluto(Hades),shared a sanctuary on the top of the mountain Pelion.There Zeus had a temple at the sunside and Chiron a cave on the northside.
The discovery of a planet usually goes together with a remarkable change in the world,according to the working of that planet.For a planet is discovered most of the time if humanity is ready for that planet.Uranus brought the preparation of the French revolution and more renewings of society,like the practical appliance of electricity since Edison,although it has existed always.The discovery of Neptune in 1846 brought the inclination to romanticism and the unseen and the massive use of and fighting against bacteries.Since his discovery in 1930 Pluto gave the destruction by violence.
Now Chiron is probably behind the revival of spiritual and herbal therapies,as also a fanatical propaganda in a mutual competition of ideologies and spiritual directions,especially in the English-speaking countries,where Sagittarius always is a strong factor.All those masters and spiritual leaders can have a strong Chiron in their character-pattern.All methods that try to unify body and soul,which in the beginning of the 20th century deliberately were separated by Christian church,is the influence of Chiron.He inspires all those new therapists who suddenly give up their job or business and intuitively begin to heal their fellowman in an old-new way.Sagittarius aims with bow and arrow at a high goal,and likewise Chiron thrives for healing by spirit,from the top,and at the same time of the bottom with herbal cures.
The myth tells how the goddess of wisdom:Pallas Athene marked the head of Chiron,and hereby gave him the seed of wisdom.In our time the notables in their residence-the vicar,the physician,the teacher and the judge- mostly only officially represent the wisdom and the integrity by toga or white coat and capital.Maybe little Chiron should succeed the older leaders of the notables-Jupiter and Saturn-as real wisdom?

[Francesca]

I just read an interesting analysis of Chiron's interactions with Saturn on Melanie Rhinehart's (sp?) site. When you get there, search "Chiron".

[Lapis]

Yes Chiron is a type of bridge between Saturn and Uranus. Chiron orbits between these two so there's the obvious physical connection along with the energetic one. Chiron helps us to move outside or beyond the physical structure of 3D reality (Saturn) to Uranus and all that it holds.

[Mary]

hi!

Mi chiron is on the 11th house, conjucnt mercury (the ruler of my chart) and sextiles my venus in pisces, inconjunct my neptune and lilith (sag, 6th house) and Pluto in my 4th house.

All I can say is that before I read in the first post that Chiron teached astrology, I posted in "Vocational Astrology-Could I be an astrologer?" thread and investigation of profesional astrologers. And sth (my intuition) told me to include chiron as an indicator of astrology interest.

And actually astrology (chiron conjunct mercury in the 11th) helped me a lot to understand a lot of my home and familiy issues and health issues (specially during tr pluto in my 6th house). Mercury conjunct chiron is the apex of a yod.

[Lapis]

Just bumping this old thread up for Mikey279x and his Chiron questions. Maybe there's something in this old thread that will help or give some insights Mikey.

[SunMoon]

Some links about Chiron in Signs and Houses:

http://www.libralion.com/chiron2.htm
http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat01.html
http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-zane.html
http://www.accessnewage.com/articles/astro/chiron.htm
http://www.magick.net/magyan/chiron.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/journal/GregoryJdeMontfort/Chiron.htm