Does he love me and will we get together?

[Lynns]

Hi,

I'd like to know if he loves me and will we be together? He's giving lots of mixed signals and I'm mighty confused.. I do not know how to read horary charts and would appreciate if anyone could shed some insights..

This is the horary chart:
http://www.publicupload.com/files/13mar.gif (http://www.publicupload.com)

Thank you so much!

Lynn

[Lynns]

One thing I noticed is that Venus opposes Saturn. What does this mean?

I take it that I am Venus and moon (reading other interpretations?)
and he is mars and saturn?

So Venus is on the midheaven in the 10th house.. what does that mean? Does it mean I see him as someone who will help me in my career, or is he a father figure?

Saturn is in the 3rd house.. Does that mean I see him as creative and communicative? He is anything but.. he tends to keep quiet alot of the time!
But he is highly creative and fun-loving.

The moon seems to be unaspected.. though it is in the same degree as Vertex..

Does anyone know how to interpret this?
Any insights would be much appreciated.
Thanks!


:P Lynn

[Summery Joy]

Does it mean I see him as someone who will help me in my career, or is he a father figure?


Why? Is he much older than you?

Let's take a look at this. ASC/DSC at Taurus/Scorpio makes you Venus and him Mars. That's a typical signification since you are naturally signified by Venus anyway. If he is a young man, then Mars is a natural significator of him as well. If he's older, then the natural significator is the Sun or Saturn.

Back to the chart significators.

You are Venus at Aquarius 6:31 in the 10th house (his turned 4th). Venus is received by Saturn Rx by Sign, triplicity and term It is in its own face having minor essential dignity. In your chart, Venus is in the 10th house having accidental dignity. But if we tuned the chart to look at his side of things, Venus will be in the 4th house suffering accidental debility.

I think this may mean that, while it seems to you that you are getting somewhere, he is probably feels that he is doing you wrong. There are two other significators that show why he may thing that way; Mars in the turned 8th house and Jupiter Rx in the turned 1st.

He is signified by Mars at Gemini 12:04. Mars is received by Mercury and Saturn Rx by sign and triplicity and by Jupiter Rx by term and face. Mars in your chart is in the 2nd house having accidental dignity, but in the turned chart it’s in the 8th which gives it accidental debility.

In your chart things are the complete opposite of them in the tunred one. While you think that there is a potential and you feel that he can actually give you something valuble (love, security, etc), he’s actually differently. He’s interested in a relationship, he is more interested in support.

Why? Let’s look at Jupiter Rx in his 1st house.

In this chart, Jupiter Rx deposits his significator and rules the 5th house, the house of non-serious love affairs and romance. Jupiter is Rx and in the 1st house. Someone from the past, whom he did not consider seriously, is still interested in him. In fact, she might be in love with him. With Mercury depositing Mars too, she may be an old friend of his since Mercury in this chart rules the turned 11th house. Interestingly, Mercury is also in Rx motion, just like Jupiter.

Also, Mars is in Gemini. Gemini is not exactly a committed sign. It’s actually a diffused one, interested many things at the same time.

Venus and Mars are not applying an aspect which gives a “no” answer to your question. No translation of light exists either, i.e. another “no”. Yes, Venus and Mars will eventually trine, but many aspects will have perfected before they do.

Let’s look at the Moon, a co-significator of you and the question.

The Moon is in the 4th house. That’s debilitating. It is at Virgo 1:55. It is received by Mercury by sign, exaltation, and term. It is received by Venus and the Sun by triplicity and face respectively. Mercury in this chart rules your 5th house, the house of fun romance, not serious commitment. This is probably the potential you have, nothing more. The Moon is not casting any aspects at the moment. This gives a “status quo” answer and another “no” to your question. The next aspect it makes is a square with Mars. Something stressful may happen in the future. The final aspect it makes before it leaves the sign is an opposition with the Sun. The sun is a natural significator of men in general and figures of authority or power. I don’t know if that’s him or someone else, but this thing is likely to end unpleasantly because of a fight. The Sun rules the 4th house in your chart. Maybe the fight will come from within you home or family.

Sorry. I hope I’m wrong.

[Lynns]

Hi sorehearted,

I'd like to say thank you so much for your chart reading. it is highly accurate in so many ways.



Why? Is he much older than you?

.
No, sorehearted, he is the same age, actually he's a week younger. My natal chart and his can be found in the introduction page.


" he is probably feels that he is doing you wrong. "

In what way?

"Someone from the past, whom he did not consider seriously, is still interested in him. In fact, she might be in love with him. With Mercury depositing Mars too, she may be an old friend of his since Mercury in this chart rules the turned 11th house. Interestingly, Mercury is also in Rx motion, just like Jupiter."

Could that person be me? We are old friends, have been for 8 years..

Thanks for your reading though..
I can see a fight coming, because we just hold everything in and refuse to talk..


You are so right about me seeing it as potential and him seeing it as needing some kind of support.

And mars in gemini being spot on too.. he's having alot of things on his mind.

He's only 23 years old though.. so maybe I shouldn't expect commitment?

But I know he loves me, however vaguely, because two years back we had something going on, but it ended and I couldn't forget it.. but when I started to think about moving on, he started to show interest again.

I have no clue how this will end up, maybe we need to experience the good and bad of this.

Thanks so much,
]Lynn

[Summery Joy]

Could that person be me? We are old friends, have been for 8 years..

I don't think so.

A drastic change in your situation or his may alter the results as I stated them in the interpretation though. Maybe you should ask that question again in a few months.

[Lynns]

Ok, thanks alot~ :D
I would!

[blumen]

Hi Lynns,

I'll have a look at this chart. I have not read the other readings, so let's see if the results are the same.

You are signified by Venus and the Moon, while he is signified by Mars and the retrograde Jupiter in the seventh.

Will you be together? There is a wide trine bettween Venus and Marts. You see each other and therefore in theory you could be together. Anyway, since it is Venus that applies the aspect, it is you the one who would like to have this relationship. So far your aspirations have been frustrated (Venus is separating an opposition from retrograde Saturn in Leo). His significator is in your second house: either you are extremely jealous of this young, androginous looking man, or he is somebody in your most immediate environemnt. As Mars rules your 12th house, this man is your affliction, and it is likely that you keep your feelings for him secret. In other words, you stay on your own, and he stays on his own. Even though you are on good terms with him (both significators are in their faces). Given that the significators are not well dignified. I would say that you will not be together. Also, there's is no reception between them. The retrograde Jupiter in the seventh house leads me to confirm these deductions. Secondary significators are not in aspect.
The only translation of light I could find is that of retrograde Mercury separating a sextile from Mars, and trining his other significator, Jupiter. I think that in the past he had a relationship with a woman signified by Mercury. Thy are trying to revive that, but they will not succeeed or if they succeed it will not last long.
No planet translates light between Moon/Venus and Mars/Jupiter. Since the Moon will be applying an opposition to Uranus it is likely that the first event that occurred after you posted the question was related to your job, quite unexpected and upsetting. You may be working together.

Will he love me?

Again, I am sorry but the answer is negative. Venus is more dignified than Mars, so you are the one who loves the most. For his it is a matter of friendship (Jupiter rules you 11). I think this guy travels a lot, and maybe was not born in Singapore (deduction from the natal chart), but moved there, or anyway lives abroad. He is split (Mars in the sign where Jupiter is in detriment and Jupiter retrograde in his turned first house). This has nothing to do with you, but with his situation in general. There is no reception again between significators. So the answer is no.
Your significator is received by Saturn, his significator is in the triplicity of Saturn, and Saturn governs you MC. Saturn is in his turned MC. I think you work together.
What's your job? I had a look at the natal charts and was impressed by the double Neptune/Mars conjunction which is so prominent in both of your charts. I thought about occupations ruled by these planets. I am sure I am wrong but I think it has to do with music. And in his case if it is not music then is television, filming, transmitting images. If you play together then we are talking about really hard, violent stuff.

Blumen

[Lynns]

Hi Blumen,

Thank you for your reading.

sorehearted as above also predicted that there is someone in his past who wants to get back with him. I'm amazed that both of you picked up on that. But I have no way of finding that out, though.

"There is a wide trine bettween Venus and Marts. You see each other and therefore in theory you could be together."

Yes, we are friends, he is my childhood friend of 8 years.

"since it is Venus that applies the aspect, it is you the one who would like to have this relationship."

Yes, I do.. but he was the one who hinted that he likes me.. You see, it is undefined, but he keeps on giving me these little hints. It was over 2 years ago, and recently I could move on, realising that I might not need him, and he started to contact me AND give me these signals. But he doesn't follow up properly on them. I do not know what to make of this.. Scared of commitment?

"So far your aspirations have been frustrated (Venus is separating an opposition from retrograde Saturn in Leo)."

Yes, for 2 years.

"His significator is in your second house: either you are extremely jealous of this young, androginous looking man, or he is somebody in your most immediate environemnt."

How did you get that he was androgynous? Haha.. It must be the second.. I'm not jealous of him..

"Mars rules your 12th house, this man is your affliction, and it is likely that you keep your feelings for him secret;you stay on your own, and he stays on his own."

True..

"Since the Moon will be applying an opposition to Uranus it is likely that the first event that occurred after you posted the question was related to your job, quite unexpected and upsetting."

No, there wan't anything that happened with regard to my job.. Maybe to his? He was frustrated that he couldn't finish his thesis.

"I think this guy travels a lot, and maybe was not born in Singapore (deduction from the natal chart), but moved there, or anyway lives abroad."

He seldom travels.. and was born here, and lives here. Maybe you're talking about his future?

"He is split (Mars in the sign where Jupiter is in detriment and Jupiter retrograde in his turned first house). This has nothing to do with you, but with his situation in general."

Yes, I agree. He is going through a very confusing time right now.. Mostly about his sexuality.

"Your significator is received by Saturn, his significator is in the triplicity of Saturn, and Saturn governs you MC. Saturn is in his turned MC. I think you work together."

We don't work together, we are still studying, but we used to be classmates though..

"If you play together then we are talking about really hard, violent stuff."

What do you mean by play together?

We're not currently doing anything related to music or the media industry though.. He is doing an english major, i'm doing psychology. But, I did have dreams of doing some directing.. but that's in the far future!

Oh, and Blumen, I am sure he does love me.. he just does not know how to, or does not want to express it. If he didn't love me I would not want to be with him! Maybe it might sound like I'm deluded.. but I actually read his online journal ( he gave me the link).

But he's struggling with his sexuality. Might he be gay?

Thank you so much for your response, Blumen.

Lynn

[Lynns]

Also, Blumen, may I know why I am not signified by mercury? You seemed to use mercury as significator for the questioner for other charts..

[Lynns]

Hi,

I was also wondering if I ask the same question many times on different days do I actually get the same answer? Because the first time I asked the question was on 6 mar 06 but I didn't know how to generate a chart so I let it slide... Then I decided to ask the same question a few days later..

Anyhow, this is the first chart:

http://www.publicupload.com/files/6mar06.gif (http://www.publicupload.com)

Does it indicate the circumstances better?
However, Saturn is in the 7th and I read it might not be a good sign.
But the ascendant is on the same sign as my ascendant, in Capricorn
And this time, moon, venus and mars are in good aspects
And sun and neptune are too.

I wonder, how is this interpreted?

Thanks again for any insights.

Lynn

[Springup]

:D Hi Lynn,

Nice to meet a fellow Singaporean here in an astrology forum. I rarely found any Singaporeans in the astrology forums I visit. :D

I can't do a horary interpretation for you as I do not know enough of it yet but from the interpretations I've been reading in this forum, there are some nuggets of info that I've picked up from the veterans which might be able to quench bit of your thirst while waiting for the professionals to tell you more :)

However, Saturn is in the 7th and I read it might not be a good sign.

I've read William Lily's rules of relationship, when ruler of Asc is in the 7th house, it means the querent desired love most. It means that you are more interested in him than he is to you.

But the ascendant is on the same sign as my ascendant, in Capricorn

His Asc is Cancer which makes Moon his main significator. Moon is in your 5th house of romance and his turned 11th house of friendship. His co-significator Mars is in the same house with Moon. It cld mean that he is more comfortable with the friendship both of you have built up and not in the right space to nurture this into a commited relationship. Both of them are in succedent house which could mean that he is sitting on the fence, not going anywhere at this stage, his feelings are rather neutral.

I only know so much.. the rest of the chart's details... let's leave it to the veterans! :mrgreen:

i can understand your frustration by his mixed signals.. I can tell you from my own personal experience.. I was in love with a guy who is drawn to romance but reluctant to get involved. He lives in the moment and made promises that he will forget the next day. :lol: When he said he likes me and want to take our relationship further, he meant it at that very moment but when he is back to his own little world, he forgets about me and focus on himself only. But when we are hanging out together, he is back to his romantic self again! :lol: That gives me mixed signals because his actions and words are contradicting. :lol: His mixed signals hurt me and confused me alot. It was hard to break away from it because I was really in love with him. I hold on to the hope that someday he will realised he does love me and show it to me, someday he will changed to the person I wish him to be, someday something will happened and we will be together forever... :lol: but that day and that miracle never arrived nor happened. :lol: When tears are dried, heart is shattered to millionth pieces and I can't find any more excuses to keep the ray, I have no choice but to break away from it.

The whole relationship is about him, his problems, his issues, his uncertainties and he may have thought of nurturing this but it is only thoughts. I need action not words. :) I was really hurtful when feelings are not recipocrated and why does he said he wants it but he doesn't make an effort to do anything? He cares and loves but doesn't care and love enough the way I need. :) Another thing I've learnt is.. people don't change easily. Don't hold on to the hope that one day he will changed.. the key is Accept it or leave it and stopped questioning. It takes a very long period of healing to recover fully and look at things at it supposed to be.

A wise person has told me, walk to the end like the way you started. Would you want to be the person who did all the work, all the giving in to keep it going? I know I won't as love is a two way traffic and it needs enough actions and effort from both to make it work.

Every relationship has its expiry date and the trick is how to live beyond that expiry date and the art is how to make it stays sweet and lovely till the last date. :)

If you love him and so desire to have him, adjust to his pace and see if it suits you. but looks like, you are already feeling frustrated by his mixed signals and you want it to move faster or hoping he will give you a message that gives you a good reason to hold on to, but he is not putting in enough effort to walk side by side with you. He has already taught you what you need to feel loved. :) If he can't give or not ready to give.. it's up to you if you want to settle for more or less. :)

May things work out well for you eventually. :)

[Summery Joy]

Oh Lynns!

You should always use the chart of when you first asked the question. It doesn't matter when you post the question. It's when you think of it. Draco has also introduced me of Frawley's method in which the interpreter could use the time and place of when he/she got and understood the question. But using the time of when you figured out how to post the chart could be misleading.
Anyway, you asked bluemen why he didn't use Mercury. Well, the significator of the querent is the ruler that rules the sign on the ASC. Maybe in the other posts you have read, Gemini or Virgo was rising.


Anyway, Let's take a look at this original chart.

Capricorn rises, so you are signified by Saturn Rx at Leo 5:13 in the 7th house. Saturn is received by Sun by sign and Jupiter by triplicity. It is in its own term and face. Although the term and face give Saturn some essential dignity, the essential debility Saturn suffers is much stronger being in the sign of its detriment and in retrograde motion.

Saturn Rx in the 7th house shows your interest in the guy. The Rx motion shows you going back to an old issue.

The 7th house cusp is in Cancer, so the guy is signified by the Moon at Gemini 2:28 in the 5th house (his turned 11th). Interestingly, his significator is in that dual sign again. I don't know, Lynns. Either he has a lot on his mind or he is in fact ….

Anyway, the Moon is received by Mercury Rx by Sign, triplicity and term. It is in the face of Jupiter. The Moon has no essential dignity so it is essentially peregrine. Considering that it is in the turned 11th house, it actually has accidental dignity.

I don't know what the Moon is doing in your 5th house though. Maybe he's interested in romancing you, but not thinking of anything serious?

Well, the Moon is actually separating from a trine with Venus. If we use the natural signification of Venus, then the guy just broke up from a seriously relationship. In this chart, however, Venus rules his 4th and 11th houses (Home – Friendship) I don't know how to interpret that.

Both you significator are applying by a trine to one another. This would give a "yes" answer to your question. However, I have recently learned that it is not a good sign when a slow planet retrogrades to mutually cast an aspect to a slower planet. Evidently, it shows that the situation in progress is only in progress because of temporary or abnormal condition that will eventually change or go back to normal.

Although the two significators will perfect the aspect without frustration, it is important to not that Saturn Rx is also in rage to apply an opposition to Venus and Moon is not too far from casting a conjunction to Mars.

The Venus opposition with your significator is not a good indication of what to expect out of love. Frustration is in the air. Also, Venus rules your 5th and 10th houses and it is in your 1st house. I'm inclined to think that someone other than this guy is interested in you, someone ruled by the 5th or the 10th.

Interestingly, Mars rules the guy's 5th house. The Moon - not far from applying to Mars - shows some problems in the romance area (just like yours with Venus) except that his aspect (conjunction) is a bit easier than yours (opposition). Bear in mind that Mars is also the natural significator of young men.

OK. According to this chart, I'm going to have to change my interpretation a bit. Maybe there is potential for you to. The application says "yes". But I think there's someone else who's interested in you, someone whom you'd normally say no to. He may not have someone else interested in him at the moment, but he will keep his options open. This will cause you a lot of frustration.

If it matters, let's not forget the Jupiter receives both your significators by minor rulerships. Jupiter in this chart rules the 12th house (his turned 6th). This shows worry and trouble on his part and secrets and self-undoing on yours.

I'm done here. I wish I had written down the time I first got and understood your question. I would have been able to give you a Frawley's interpretation that would have helped solve the conflicts between this chart and the one you first posted. However, if you are sure that the chart I have just interpreted is in fact the one from when you first thought of the question, then this is the one that you should take more seriously.

Hope I've been helpful.

[blumen]

Hi Lynns,

How did you get that he was androgynous?

Because Mercury is an androginous planet, neither feminine as Jupiter or Venus or the Moon, nor masculine as Mars or the Sun. Mars (masculinity, men etc.) was in Gemini. Gemini is a dual sign, ruled by an androginous planet, hence I deduced that some kind of androginy must have been present here.

Let's see where I was wrong and why


No, there wan't anything that happened with regard to my job.. Maybe to his? He was frustrated that he couldn't finish his thesis.



I guess I should not have considered Uranus.




He seldom travels.. and was born here, and lives here. Maybe you're talking about his future?


In his natal chart, Jupiter is very strong, and normally it indicates either that the person lives abroad, or lots of travels. I picked up the wrong symbols apparently.


We don't work together, we are still studying, but we used to be classmates though..


mmmmm. saying that going to school would equal work would be overstretching the interpretation.....but then what does this reception by Saturn ruler of the MC mean?

What do you mean by play together?


Playing musical instruments. Also in this case, I looked at those Neptune/Mars conjunctions too superficially, and quickly concluded "Music!"


At this point I want to have a look at the first chart that you casted too.......I'll post my reply tomorrow,

Blumen

[Summery Joy]

In his natal chart, Jupiter is very strong, and normally it indicates either that the person lives abroad, or lots of travels. I picked up the wrong symbols apparently.

You are not far from the truth, blumen. Jupiter, Sagittarius and the 9th house do not *only* represent physical travel. Do all natals of strong emphasis on any of those three roam the planet? No.

Jupiter, Sagittarius and the 9th house represent traveling of the mind as well. That's why they represent philosophy too. Maybe the guy has a mind with no boundaries or desires with no limits.

[Lynns]

Hi SG,

Good to meet you too! :) I've not met Singaporeans in astrological forums too!

"It cld mean that he is more comfortable with the friendship both of you have built up and not in the right space to nurture this into a commited relationship. Both of them are in succedent house which could mean that he is sitting on the fence, not going anywhere at this stage, his feelings are rather neutral. "

Yes, I believe that too. We have been friends for a long time, and I don't think he is ready for commitment, or might be afraid of it..

"When he said he likes me and want to take our relationship further, he meant it at that very moment but when he is back to his own little world, he forgets about me and focus on himself only. But when we are hanging out together, he is back to his romantic self again!"

Yeah I get what you mean.. He is different when you actually meet him face-to-face and when you're both alone and communicating through text messages..

"That gives me mixed signals because his actions and words are contradicting. Laughing His mixed signals hurt me and confused me alot. It was hard to break away from it because I was really in love with him."

Sounds like me too.. but he got me to believe he was in love with me too.. and then come the mixed signals!

"I hold on to the hope that someday he will realised he does love me and show it to me, someday he will changed to the person I wish him to be, someday something will happened and we will be together forever... Laughing but that day and that miracle never arrived nor happened. Laughing When tears are dried, heart is shattered to millionth pieces and I can't find any more excuses to keep the ray, I have no choice but to break away from it. "

Hey SG, maybe he does love you but this is not the right time for you to be together? I was "almost" with him 2 years ago, then nothing happenened and we didn't talk properly with each ther for 2 years! We aren't even talking "properly" now. And to think we have been good friends for 8 years. He talks to everyone normally except me.. I'm not even sure where this is heading.. But if he's the one for you he will come back.. Especially when you think you might finally have gotten over him?

"The whole relationship is about him, his problems, his issues, his uncertainties and he may have thought of nurturing this but it is only thoughts. I need action not words. Smile I was really hurtful when feelings are not recipocrated and why does he said he wants it but he doesn't make an effort to do anything? He cares and loves but doesn't care and love enough the way I need."

Haha.. same here, SG. I think we are all self-centred to a fault, mostly in relationships, like, what can the other party give me? This guy is like this too. I think he wants from me more than he is willing to give, but he loves me too. "Doesn't care and love the way I need" .. that's my major gripe too! I wait and wait and hopes he understands, but i don't think he does! Similarly, I know he wants certain things from me, but I either overlook it, or am unwilling to give it either. Have you read those books "Men Are From Mars and Women Are From Venus?" When I read those for the first time, I was stunned how this totally applied to his and my "relationship".. and that how men and women don't understand each other and what each other wants.

"Another thing I've learnt is.. people don't change easily. Don't hold on to the hope that one day he will changed.. the key is Accept it or leave it and stopped questioning. It takes a very long period of healing to recover fully and look at things at it supposed to be. "

I agree. He has loads of quirks. I'm sure I haven't seen most too.. I agree with the healing part. It takes a long time to realise you're whole without anyone by your side..

"A wise person has told me, walk to the end like the way you started. Would you want to be the person who did all the work, all the giving in to keep it going? I know I won't as love is a two way traffic and it needs enough actions and effort from both to make it work. "

Yeah me too! I don't want to be the one giving all the time. That's why I withhold sometimes. And he needs to realise that or else nothing will work! And if it doesn't, sleeping dogs should lie, and it wasn't meant to be.

"Every relationship has its expiry date and the trick is how to live beyond that expiry date and the art is how to make it stays sweet and lovely till the last date. Smile "

Yeah, I agree.. but too bad it takes two hands to clap.. if the other hand is not aware, it might not happen in the first place..

"If you love him and so desire to have him, adjust to his pace and see if it suits you. but looks like, you are already feeling frustrated by his mixed signals and you want it to move faster or hoping he will give you a message that gives you a good reason to hold on to, but he is not putting in enough effort to walk side by side with you. He has already taught you what you need to feel loved. Smile If he can't give or not ready to give.. it's up to you if you want to settle for more or less. Smile "

Yes, I do love him, but I have for 2 years.. actually it is probably more than that, BUT i wasn't aware, so I didn't suffer. The thing is, it has taught me, i could take it for 2 years.. i could live with it for a lifetime. I'm not going to chase him.. if he doesn't makke up his Libran mind AND is still represented by Gemini (as interpreted by sorehearted and Blumen) I might not want to be with him either..

Thanks so much SG for sharing your experiences and giving bits of wisdom.

:) Lynn

[Lynns]

Hi sorehearted!

"You should always use the chart of when you first asked the question. It doesn't matter when you post the question. It's when you think of it. "

Ah, i didn't know! Actually Draco introduced me to this forum.. and i'm not sure when I asked the question, but it is around that time! 06 mar 06.. maybe a few minutes difference? At most 15 mins difference though.. I sure hope it doesn't make a difference to the houses in the chart.. but it amazes me that the ascendant is on mine, albeit 7 degrees apart.

"Draco has also introduced me of Frawley's method in which the interpreter could use the time and place of when he/she got and understood the question. But using the time of when you figured out how to post the chart could be misleading. "

Yup, I read that Draco uses the method he first got and understood the chart too.

"Anyway, you asked bluemen why he didn't use Mercury. Well, the significator of the querent is the ruler that rules the sign on the ASC. Maybe in the other posts you have read, Gemini or Virgo was rising. "

Oh I see.. hmm.. yeah i figured too. Mercury was having a good aspect though..

"Saturn Rx in the 7th house shows your interest in the guy. The Rx motion shows you going back to an old issue. "

Yep, the issue is kind of old! Haha

"Interestingly, his significator is in that dual sign again. I don't know, Lynns. Either he has a lot on his mind or he is in fact …."

Yeah.. in fact.. bisexual? :P Oh it's 3 dots hehe.
He is rather dual.. His ascendant is in pisces.. a dual sign too..
I'm beyond caring whether he is gay or not now.. although I DO mind! He needs to make up his mind.

"I don't know what the Moon is doing in your 5th house though. Maybe he's interested in romancing you, but not thinking of anything serious? "

Probably.. if I start talking about marriage, he'd probably run a mile and remain 'gay' forever. I think most men, and he is one of them, are afraid of commitment.. I think he 'ran' the last time because i might have hinted at something more.. and to a 20 year old.. it might be too much.

One thing I'm puzzled.. Am I supposed to be represented by the moon too? If he and I are represented by the moon, what does it mean?

"Well, the Moon is actually separating from a trine with Venus. If we use the natural signification of Venus, then the guy just broke up from a seriously relationship. In this chart, however, Venus rules his 4th and 11th houses (Home – Friendship) I don't know how to interpret that. "

I think you might be right.. I am unaware of his relationship trials, but he might have been involved with someone. I wonder why.. he's not afraid of being with other people, BUT is afraid of being with me? It is still puzzling me.
I don't know what 4th and 11th means either, but maybe 11th shows we have been friends? Or are you talking about the previous person?
(If you're talking about the one he might have broke up with, they lived together for a period of time (4th house)? And maybe they were 'friends with benefits'?) Ah.. maybe it makes sense? Tell me if I'm wrong..

"The Venus opposition with your significator is not a good indication of what to expect out of love. Frustration is in the air. Also, Venus rules your 5th and 10th houses and it is in your 1st house. I'm inclined to think that someone other than this guy is interested in you, someone ruled by the 5th or the 10th. "

Oh yes, mighty frustration on my part. Because He doesn't talk. If we don't talk, we can never reconcile our differences. And hhe doesn't realise that!
Do you mean the other guy is either a Libran or Taurus? Because I know there aren't Tauruses in my midst. But i think there might be Virgos interested in me.

"He may not have someone else interested in him at the moment, but he will keep his options open. This will cause you a lot of frustration. "

Keep options open? What do you mean.. like breaking up if he sees someone more suitable? Oh yes, that's frustrating.

"This shows worry and trouble on his part and secrets and self-undoing on yours. "

Hmm.. self-undoing.. sounds dangerous..

"I'm done here. I wish I had written down the time I first got and understood your question. I would have been able to give you a Frawley's interpretation that would have helped solve the conflicts between this chart and the one you first posted. However, if you are sure that the chart I have just interpreted is in fact the one from when you first thought of the question, then this is the one that you should take more seriously. "

Hmm, yes, i'm quite sure I asked it on this date and around this time..
Maybe the question has crossed my mind other times, BUT I didn't know horary existed then.. so it's irrelevant right? Other times I just consulted the Tarot, and they are highly accurate too.

"Hope I've been helpful"

Yes, you have been very helpful. thank you for illuminating our 'relationship'. it has helped me to see things more clearly so i can make better decisions and maybe understand where he's getting from. Thank you so much.


:) Lynn

[Lynns]

Hi Blumen!

"Because Mercury is an androginous planet, neither feminine as Jupiter or Venus or the Moon, nor masculine as Mars or the Sun. Mars (masculinity, men etc.) was in Gemini. Gemini is a dual sign, ruled by an androginous planet, hence I deduced that some kind of androginy must have been present here. "

The androogyny was spot on. But he's not that typical androgynous kind as portrayed by the media though.. with shaved head and eyebrows? He has a head of hair! And looks like a typical guy.

"but then what does this reception by Saturn ruler of the MC mean? "

Hmm, i haven't got a clue.. but i'll take a wild stab?
Maybe some serious home ideas? But it's stressful to venus.. so.. we are trying to control each other's expression and happiness? (But this is a horary chart and I've no clue how to interpret them!)
But one thing is both our natal charts have conjunction venus-saturn and both our aspects have venus-saturn conjunctions too. i'm not sure if there is relevance there..

"Playing musical instruments. Also in this case, I looked at those Neptune/Mars conjunctions too superficially, and quickly concluded "Music!" "

We both love music though.. but we might not have musical destinies.. Hmm..

Thanks Blumen!


:)

[Lynns]

Jupiter, Sagittarius and the 9th house represent traveling of the mind as well. That's why they represent philosophy too. Maybe the guy has a mind with no boundaries or desires with no limits.

Desires with no limits! That is interesting. Mind with no boundaries.. I think so! He has moon in sagittarius, and mars in sagittarius too! Probably philosophically inclined :)

[Draco]

Lynn,

I'm confused. I can see no chart here to work from, I don't know where these interpretations are coming from - there is no chart.

What is the data you are using? I remember making a note about the time and date that you asked this question on youthink, but I'm not sure if I still have it but I will have a look.

I hope I still have the chart. If not, then what is the data you are using? As I said I can see no chart or data in the thread!

"You should always use the chart of when you first asked the question. It doesn't matter when you post the question. It's when you think of it. "

Although this isn't necessarily true, when a question is posted without data, then this is the perfect opportunity to use the Frawley method of notin the time that the question was received.

Draco :wink:

[Lynns]

Hiya Draco,

Hmm.. I wonder why you see no chart?

The time and date would be
06 Mar 06, 3:05am Singapore 1N16, 103E51..

I got it from the YT message I sent you.

Thanks!
Lynn :)

[Draco]

Hi Lynn,

May I apologise for not getting back to you sooner on this, but I haven't been on the forum as much as I would like to lately, I have only had time to nip in and out.

I had noticed that you have been offered some interpretations and wasn't sure whether you still needed my input.

Anyway here goes, here is the chart:

(Sorry, I have tried three times unsuccessfully to upload the chart. For some reason it is deciding not to work today. I have had just about enough of badly detrimented retrograde Mercury moving through my first house, and causing my personal computer to have a mind of it's own. Sorry, I would liked to have given a visual example of the chart to refer to :| )

As I remember it, you were wanting to know whether a love relationship can blossom between you and a guy. You said that he had told you that he was gay in the past, but now you are not sure that he is and you are attracted to him. The chart, I think has interesting things to say about this matter.

The first thing I notice about the chart, is that your significators are not Venus and Mars, so the chart will not describe a typical love situation.

Capricorn rises, making you Saturn, and Saturn is retrograde in the 7th house. Saturns 7th house placement show how you are in this other person's thoughts and is just descriptive of how much you were applying your own thoughts toward this other person when you asked your question.

Saturn retrograde would show that you were raking through the past, considering your doubts as to whether as relationship with this guy could manifest or not. Saturn retrograde carries the theme of regret, it seems that you have been somehow pained that a relationship has not blossomed between the two of you. The doubts and disappointment about him in the past my have arisen due to him saying that he was gay.

Upon the issue of whether he might be gay, the chart actually would seem to give strong testimony that he probably is. This is my reasoning:

He is represented by the Moon, as Cancer is on the DC. The Moon is in the 5th house, and the 5th concerns sex and sexuality. The Moon applies conjunction to Mars, the natural ruler of all things male, men and sex drive. This on it's own my suggest that he may be more inclined to sexual unison with other males, but even more so for the fact that this application to conjunction occurs in the sign of Gemini. The Greek prefix 'homo' in the word 'homo-sexual' means 'the same, or equal to'. Gemini being the sign of the twins represents equals, and with the fact that his significator applies to conjoin with Mars, ruler of men, in the sexual 5th house in the sign of the equals, would seem to speak volumes about the nature of his sexual inclinations.

To be honest, even if you had never mentioned to me that this person had declared that he was gay in the past, then this theme of a homosexual nature in the other person would have stood out to me anyway, I probably just wouldn't have mentioned it.

I must also mention however, that the Moon is frustrated of it's conjoining with Mars, because Saturn retrograde, your significator intervenes, as the Moon will first apply a sextile to Saturn before it perfects it's conjunction to Mars.

The fact that this aspect is a sextile brings us the theme of sex again, and the sextile occurs across male signs. I feel that this suggests that he will decide that a sexual relationship with you is not want he really wants, before deciding to commit himself to his homosexual nature.

The fact that Saturn frustrates the conjoining of Moon and Mars, would somehow show you getting in the way of him and his sexuality. Perhaps this is because he has since told you that he was not gay, and now he feels that he should stick to what he has said, or try to have a relationship with you anyway. I imagine that he does have feelings for you, he wouldn't want you to be hurt, it seems you would be on his conscience when he make a sexual move towards other males, feeling a bit guilty perhaps.

Ultimately however, that conjunction of the Moon to Mars in Gemini in the 5th house just seems to be an apt symbolic description to me of homosexuality. Yet the fact that the Moon will sextile Saturn before this would show that he will not pursue his desires without somehow considering you first, perhaps feeling guilty that you may be hurt, but perhaps also he would be inclined to sort of use you as a 'test'.

I think it is evident in the chart that he cares about you, he wouldn't be reaching out to you before conjoinng with Mars otherwise, but be aware that he may be experiencing some indecision about his sexuality, and may feel the urge to try you out before deciding once and for all that he is gay. So be aware of this.

I'm not sure that a sexual relationship would be satisfactory for either one of you.:(

Draco :wink:

[Lynns]

Hi Draco,

I'm sorry I didn't reply earlier, for some reason I couldn't access this site. Maybe it's my server problem. Hope you got my message on YT earlier.

"Saturn retrograde would show that you were raking through the past, considering your doubts as to whether as relationship with this guy could manifest or not. Saturn retrograde carries the theme of regret, it seems that you have been somehow pained that a relationship has not blossomed between the two of you. The doubts and disappointment about him in the past my have arisen due to him saying that he was gay. "

Bingo. Good observation and inference.

"because he has since told you that he was not gay"

No, he mentioned nought.

"I imagine that he does have feelings for you, he wouldn't want you to be hurt, it seems you would be on his conscience when he make a sexual move towards other males, feeling a bit guilty perhaps. "

If he does, why is he still considered gay?

"Yet the fact that the Moon will sextile Saturn before this would show that he will not pursue his desires without somehow considering you first, perhaps feeling guilty that you may be hurt, but perhaps also he would be inclined to sort of use you as a 'test'. "

A 'test'? What makes you derive at that notion?

"but be aware that he may be experiencing some indecision about his sexuality, and may feel the urge to try you out before deciding once and for all that he is gay. So be aware of this. "

You sure people are either gay or straight? Because I thought the boundaries of this are very undefined.. as in, everyone is bisexual.. it is a matter of willpower, focus and self-control... I don't know though..

"I'm not sure that a sexual relationship would be satisfactory for either one of you"

Then why does he want to pursue a relationship with me? Can't we just be friends then?

Thanks Draco,
Lynn

[Draco]

Hi Lynn,

"Yet the fact that the Moon will sextile Saturn before this would show that he will not pursue his desires without somehow considering you first, perhaps feeling guilty that you may be hurt, but perhaps also he would be inclined to sort of use you as a 'test'. "

A 'test'? What makes you derive at that notion?

The thing is Lynn, in that we have to try and interpret charts on the forum while not physically in the presence of the person read for, this means that we cannot ask the necessary questions in order to fine tune the reading to the individual, and sometimes we must make general assumptions.

When I mention a 'test', I suggested that perhaps he may experiment with having a relationship with you, in order to decided what his sexual orientation truly is. However, as I know neither you or the other person, I have to make a presumption here.

You sure people are either gay or straight? Because I thought the boundaries of this are very undefined.. as in, everyone is bisexual.. it is a matter of willpower, focus and self-control... I don't know though..

These are exactly my thoughts on the subject Lynn, I also believe that we are latently bi-sexual, but ewe live in a world culture that conditions us to indetify with 'straight' but then if not to identify with 'gay'. Things are not so black and white as far as I'm concerned, but in trying to interpret a horary, an answer must be found.

So when it comes to the 'gay' or 'straight' label, then I just felt that the chart was telling me 'gay'.

Then why does he want to pursue a relationship with me? Can't we just be friends then?

I never implied that you could not be friends. That's up to you isn't it? If he is gay then I have no idea why he wants a relationship with you, but I was under the impression that it was you that wanted a relationship with him?

If he is gay, and wants a relationship with you, then this is what I mean about a 'test', perhaps he seeks a relationship with a woman to help him decide once and for all what his sexuality, but I don't know, because I don't know either of you.

Draco :wink:

[Lynns]

Hi Draco,

When I mention a 'test', I suggested that perhaps he may experiment with having a relationship with you, in order to decided what his sexual orientation truly is. However, as I know neither you or the other person, I have to make a presumption here.
Yup, I see. Thanks for the warning though. I'd be careful, because your interpretation of moon joining with saturn first, then joining with mars makes alot of sense for it to be interpreted as a 'test'. I can understand why you derive at that conclusion.
But I was questioning it because I have known him for 8 years. I was thinking if he could or would want to ruin a friendship for a 'test'.. I won't say that i know him, or how he thinks, not even knowing him for so long, so I can't say for sure, but using it as a 'test' is trivialising our friendship, and it'll probably be ruined if it were true.

So when it comes to the 'gay' or 'straight' label, then I just felt that the chart was telling me 'gay'.
Ok, i see that.


I never implied that you could not be friends. That's up to you isn't it? If he is gay then I have no idea why he wants a relationship with you, but I was under the impression that it was you that wanted a relationship with him?
I won't want to presume that he was the one to initiate, so i'd say it takes two hands to clap. I wanted a relationship with him, yes, but i could do without it. He was the hinter all the way, i just respond. But, as the chart says, he is indecisive, wants the best of both (or more) worlds, might be gay, immature.. etc. So I just take it as they come.
I see romantic relationships as the most messy area in life, i never knew that until i got involved. So I'd just go with the ride..

If he is gay, and wants a relationship with you, then this is what I mean about a 'test', perhaps he seeks a relationship with a woman to help him decide once and for all what his sexuality, but I don't know, because I don't know either of you.
Ok, i see what you mean.. it is valuable to me, because I don't want to be decieved of the other's intentions, so i'll keep that in mind.

Thanks again, Draco.

Lynn