Discussion of Natal Chart Progressions

[Arian Maverick]

I have created this new thread to continue a discussion started on the Indicators of Musical Talent in a Natal Chart (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1170&start=15) about progressions. Enjoy!

Aquarian Maverick

[C Jayne]

I have created this new thread to continue a discussion started on the Indicators of Musical Talent in a Natal Chart (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1170&start=15) about progressions. Enjoy!

Aquarian Maverick

Hi AqMav!

I created another thread at

http://astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7762#7762

where I've posted two progressions of my husband's chart.

I'm sorry I don't know how to make little chart-links like you do. If you want to send me a private message about that some time, I'd appreciate the info. Thanks! -- C

[Elianah]

Hi everyone,

I think I may have an off-beat way of using progressed charts that may or may not work for others. This felt like the place to post it and see what others think.

First off, I think that I need to say that I do not do predictive astrology as a rule (although, being human, I do want to traipse into that area every once in a while regarding myself) because I think there are too many other factors which can impact the future outside the chart that a chart cannot comment on unless it has all the players' charts involved. It is within relationship that the future can, in my opinion, be seen. Each human is a multifaceted, multidimensional being and each facet and dimension touches others in ways that predictive astrology is not able to respond to with a single chart.

So for me the purpose of a progressed chart is to see the continuing evolution of the person towards integrating with the soul. I believe in reincarnation, so I do believe that the soul has many incarnations where it learns specific dimensions and facets of a unique question that the Source of All Being (SOAB) has asked it to answer for itself and the SOAB so all can continue evolving to their most perfected state.

The soul lives in all dimensional and physical incarnations simultaneously. As physical beings on the Earth plane, we are limited to how much information we can take in from those other incarnations, whether past or future. Sometimes the soul "leaks" hints from future lives that become our "A-HA!!" moments in this lifetime as well as rememberances from past lives to help the physical human in this moment continue the identification and refinement of the answer to be returned once the physical body dies.

So, for me, the natal chart is the statement by the soul of the facet of the question it is answering in this incarnation. Progressed charts begin by figuring out what that specific question is in light of the soul's overarching question, then finding all the possible answers to integrate into a singularity of information to be used by the soul as part of its answer web which it will collapse into a singularity to return to the SOAB.

That's my take on progressed charts as a whole. What do you think?

Elianah

[Frisiangal]

[quote="Elianah"]
.......First off, I think that I need to say that I do not do predictive astrology ........... because I think there are too many other factors which can impact the future outside the chart that a chart cannot comment on unless it has all the players' charts involved.It is within relationship that the future can, in my opinion, be seen. Each human is a multifaceted, multidimensional being and each facet and dimension touches others in ways that predictive astrology is not able to respond to with a single chart.

I find that the solar arc progressions (all planets moving at same rate as natal Sun per year) provide definite impact and information regarding the effect of other people on one's life at any specific time; i.e. when they aspect a natal planet. To get a really good picture......can anyone ever know the complete one? :)..... transits and S.A's are invaluable in gaining an understanding of what the secondary progressed chart (a day for a year calculations)is ultimating.
( Hope this answers C.J's question re: my use of 'sec. prog.' in her post elsewhere)

[So for me the purpose of a progressed chart is to see the continuing evolution of the person towards integrating with the soul. I believe in reincarnation, so I do believe that the soul has many incarnations where it learns specific dimensions and facets of a unique question that the Source of All Being (SOAB) has asked it to answer for itself ]

The ever repeated question;.....do you see the soul represented by a planet, position or point in the chart, or only its direction as the chart as a whole?


The soul lives in all dimensional and physical incarnations simultaneously. As physical beings on the Earth plane, we are limited to how much information we can take in from those other incarnations, whether past or future. Sometimes the soul "leaks" hints from future lives that become our "A-HA!!" moments in this lifetime as well as rememberances from past lives to help the physical human in this moment continue the identification and refinement of the answer to be returned once the physical body dies.

What do you see as the meaning of the Sun in respect to Soul, apart from the metaphorical driver at the wheel for Soul in the back seat?
Do you think that Soul is always right? I have had definite times when my 'innermost feelings', for want of another expression, dictate one thing and I have tried to change the course of 'destiny'. Yet my Earthy spirit showed facts that made me see the futility of that course. In retrospect Spirit was right, for which I still feel 'Soul' crying and suffering because it didn't get its way.

So, for me, the natal chart is the statement by the soul of the facet of the question it is answering in this incarnation.

Similar to Mulder from X-files saying, "A dream is the answer to a question you have not yet thought of"? :)

Progressed charts begin by figuring out what that specific question is in light of the soul's overarching question, then finding all the possible answers to integrate into a singularity of information to be used by the soul as part of its answer web which it will collapse into a singularity to return to the SOAB.

That's my take on progressed charts as a whole. What do you think?

From Soul Centred Astrology point of view, it provides an answer for egotistical man's quest for his reason for existence. Anyone with a chart that moves in that direction will find solace in its interpretation. But for the majority who are just trying to get through another day here on Earth, it may not bring the comforting answers they seek.

Which is not saying that I don't agree with you :wink:

F.

[Elianah]

Frisianangel,

What do you see as the meaning of the Sun in respect to Soul, apart from the metaphorical driver at the wheel for Soul in the back seat?
Do you think that Soul is always right? I have had definite times when my 'innermost feelings', for want of another expression, dictate one thing and I have tried to change the course of 'destiny'. Yet my Earthy spirit showed facts that made me see the futility of that course. In retrospect Spirit was right, for which I still feel 'Soul' crying and suffering because it didn't get its way.

Hmmm...for me the manifestation web is Source of All Being -> Soul Group -> Soul -> Spirit -> Physical Being. The question is a holographic, multi-faceted energy until it manifests into the Spirit realm, where it becomes more concretized into a managable and do-able sense of purpose and being for the Physical Being.

Soul for me understands that there will be choices made at more physically manifested levels that will appear to be tangents to the Spirit that seem to be irrelevent to answering the Soul's question. Spirit, to me, seems to want to remain overly focused on "the question" and is unable to see the bigger picture, which is that even the unrelated tangents help answer the Soul's question. I also believe that the Soul, Soul Group and Source of All Being create and give the Physical Being tangents to assist the Spirit in its evolution.

As each facet of the question is revealed and answered, it helps the evolution of all concerned. Yes, I believe that the Source of All Being also evolves and that it does not have all the answers. If the Source of All Being had all the answers, why would the Source need to create the multi-dimensional multiverse in the first place?

But this is an astrology website and not a religious philosophy board, so let me bring it back to astrology: for me the Soul creates the natal chart for responding to the facet of the question relevant for the particular times into which the Physical Being is being born. The Spirit is represented through the Sun and its expectations on how the question should be answered and the planets, angles and aspects reveal all the possible tangents that the Physical Being may take.

How all of those elements progress through time for the Physical Being and how the Physical Being and Spirit interact with and integrate that ongoing fluidity is what transit and progressed charts show for me. Perhaps the natal represents the possibilities where as the probabilities are more indicated by the transit and progressed charts. This doesn't mean tangents still can't be snuck in because the Sun/Spirit tends to want to believe that the natal chart has the definitive "be all-end all" answer instead of the facet of the question on which it is to work during this physical manifestation, in my opinion.

I realize that for many people they are looking for solace or blame through astrology. They may use atrology as a way not to take responsibility and be accountable for their choices. Sort of like the old Geraldine Jones (a Flip Wilson character) exclamation of "The Devil made me do it!", those people would not be clients of mine because I wouldn't allow the blame game to be played. And I do believe there are some people who play the blame game to receive solace for the sorry state their lives (as they see it) are in at the moment.

And there are enough astrologers out there that will allow them to have that option. I guess where I am moving to is a fully-conscious type of astrology where one uses astrology as a tool to integrate the various forms of consciousness (personal conscious and unconscious, collective conscious and unconscious) into full consciousness.

Part of that process is dropping the blame game and holding oneself responsible and accountable for all actions taken. This is not easy to do because we are culturally and religiously trained from birth to play the blame game: just look at Genesis chapter 2, the Bushwhacker administration here in the U.S. (along with the greater portion of American media), fundamentalist—religious and secular, etc., and one can see how the blame game is the path of least resistance and least work.

That's not my type of life and not the type of astrology I want to practice. Now this doesn't mean I don't slide into the blame game at times because I am as human as anyone else. What I try to do is to become conscious of when am starting to play the blame game and change the energy. And I hope that is something I can do for others with my astrology practice.

Elianah

[Frisiangal]

..................
Part of that process is dropping the blame game and holding oneself responsible and accountable for all actions taken.

I fear my husband and I have recently lost a 35 years friendship with a 12th house Piscean Sun who feels the weak of society (i.e. NOT weak through disease of mind or matter) should be protected by the government from themselves, and I said more or less the same thing you wrote above regarding responsibility :(

This is not easy to do because we are culturally and religiously trained from birth to play the blame game: Elianah[/quote]

For Pisces, maybe 'blame' is not so much the issue.

An enlightening post. Thank you.
F.

[Elianah]

I fear my husband and I have recently lost a 35 years friendship with a 12th house Piscean Sun who feels the weak of society (i.e. NOT weak through disease of mind or matter) should be protected by the government from themselves, and I said more or less the same thing you wrote above regarding responsibility :(

For Pisces, maybe 'blame' is not so much the issue.

I don't know...the weak of society should be protected by government from themselves sounds like a form of the blame game. Not all blame is focused on the self's problems. Blame can be meted out on others (weak of society) who (according to the person making the comment) can't be held responsible or accountable so the government must be made responsible and accountable for them. When the weak ***** up, the government is then blamed for the failure of protecting society from the weak of society that government needs to protect from themselves.

God, what a circular path that wove...UGH!

BTW, how does this person define "the weak of society?"

Elianah

[Frisiangal]

BTW, how does this person define "the weak of society?"

Elianah

As mainly those who live on social security and government subsidies of one kind and another (is that not government controlled protection, I asked? ). They are therefore not in the position to enjoy the benefits of those with more in their pockets. Such people are 'suckers' for t.v. ads., insurance gimmicks, car deals, supermarket offers, catalgue buying, etc.etc.. They build up debts impossible to repay and seek solace in Neptune type comforts. They should therefore be protected from themselves by the government! How? Everything I've just named should be banned or made illegal. Taking responsibility for one's actions is not a considered option.
These are the friend's words; not mine :wink:


It should be mentioned that the friend has had an easy, but not rewarding life. Not worked for 35 years as a result of a whiplash caused by being hit by another car whilst stationary at traffic lights. Never received compensation. Has received an invalidity pension since, whilst spouse works. Has therefore never built up any retirement pension. Invalidity pension now replaced by lower senior state pension. Most of the time is spent amongst those in situations mentioned above, so I can understand that the view of the world has become rather one-sided; victims of their circumstances. Friend is very bitter and gliding further into isolation as family and friends alike are accused of being anti-social-minded and no longer visit.

I remember asking how the friend was, 6 weeks after the initial accident.
The answer was, "I'm fine. It wouldn't worry me if I never had to work again."
It taught me to be careful what I wish for.....I could get it!

A very sad history for this Piscean Sun.

F.

[Elianah]

Is this person unconsiously wanting the government to rescue him or her from what has transpired in his/her life? Does this person unconsiously consider him/herself as one of those "weak of society"?

It might be interesting to check out those streams within this person's chart. It sounds like a bit of projection to me, based on what you have reported.

Elianah

[C Jayne]

Here is a joke I cut out of the New Yorker and pinned to my bulletin board:

Two half drunk looking guys are sitting at a bar and one is confiding to the other:

"My alcohlolism has gotten worse for the past ten months -- and the President has done precious little to stop it!"

(This was funnier at the time it was written. Bill Clinton was President, Monica Lewinsky had not yet hit the news, the U.S. was not at war with anybody.)

--C

[Frisiangal]

Is this person unconsiously wanting the government to rescue him or her from what has transpired in his/her life? Does this person unconsiously consider him/herself as one of those "weak of society"?

It's difficult to say what I think is going on in our friend's conscious mind, let alone in his unconscious mind. What he has always wanted is for those close to him to understand and empathise with his position. This has been difficult as so many have worked, lived, and some died, with their own physical complaints. He manages things for pleasure, for which he is prepared to suffer physical pain, but working for a living required too much of him. He is a walking physical wreck with every part of his body undergoing pain at one time or another. Astrologically speaking, I can understand that if energy does not work outwards, so reverts inwards into the body. Yet his heart is strong....as is his Leo wife who has supported him, in every sense of the word, for most of their marriage. I am wondering if, now that he is officially retired, his physical pain will ease up. There's no further cause for it, is there?

Maybe being the 'unseen' 7th child in a family of 8 children and losing his father at age 11, also played a role.

It might be interesting to check out those streams within this person's chart. It sounds like a bit of projection to me, based on what you have reported.

Remembering his words of so long ago, I have often wondered if there is some sort of 'feeling or knowledge of guilt' for his actions that he has repressed and people are, indeed, the projection of what he could have been himself but never found the desire to try. So rejection of them and their deeds is his campaign of attack. It makes it all the harder for people to hear that they are anti-social when they have done so much in practical ways to help him personally, as well as in other community and voluntary areas, whilst he has literally never lifted a finger to help anyone. But how could he, when he could not help himself? :cry:

I read Liz Greene's 'Neptune'; The Quest for Redemption' a number of years ago and our friend seems to have all the symptons that she describes for the hystericus.

F.

[MidnightDevil]

I've been reading "Conversations with God", It's a very interesting good and a very soft and warm reading! It explains how soul deals with changes and what should needs, it explains as well that what you FEEL is what your soul wants or desires. If you love someone, and deep inside you know it's the right person, that's when your soul is in harmony with the supposed choice you've made. Let's say there's always free well, but the soul in this example wants it, it needs it and its part of its experience that underlined to go through. It goes deeper, this is just a superficial explanation of my progressed ascendant in geminis ;)

I hope my posts gets commented :D I'd really love to hear some opinions!

[igotu07]

I have heard that there is an orb in which takes up 30 degrees from Libra 15 to Scorpio 15 in which it is all astrology gets 'thrown out the window' is this true or has anyone heard the same?

[Arian Maverick]

I have heard that there is an orb in which takes up 30 degrees from Libra 15 to Scorpio 15 in which it is all astrology gets 'thrown out the window' is this true or has anyone heard the same?

Are you referring to Via Combusta?

Arian Maverick