Psychics, Liars and Drunks

[C Jayne]

Hope I can do this.

http://www.publicupload.com/files/liz_vertical_gif.gif (http://www.publicupload.com)

This is the chart of a much-beloved psychic in Yellow Springs, Ohio. She died sometime in the past 10 years.

I thought Liz's chart would be a good one for discussion. She was incredibly psychic -- no hokum. But she was quite illusive. For instance, she spoke with a British accent, so everyone thought she was from England. Joke! She was more Midwestern than corn!

Liz told me that having planets on the Ascendant makes a person have a very difficult childhood, and that hers was.

Now I would say, was she illusive, or did she and I simply speak in different terms? She was happy to give me a copy of her chart, but some of the planets could not actually have been precisely where they were drawn (hand-cast chart -- planets off by half a degree or so). She just shook her head almost frightened -- didn't have an explanation. She was an old lady by then. She told me she was born in a little town in Missouri and gave me her day and year of birth. I had to do the math and figure out the rest.

She briefly met Paramahansa Yogananda once, and made reference to it her whole life. (Some people mistakenly thought she was saying she'd been big buddies with him. I think she met him when she was five and he was 70 and he died the next year, or something like that. After I began hanging around her, she began clarifying this better when she mentioned it to people.)

(The woman was psychic -- she certainly knew I was playing "detective cop" on her abilities.)

(Interesting that her Jupiter and Saturn oppose, huh?)

She was a Buddhist meditator, and she brought together a group of meditators that met in Yellow Springs for years, religiously, on Wednesday nights in a stone chapel belonging to the Quakers. She was a licensed minister and sometimes performed weddings.

During the week, people came to her, paid her a little money, and she read their Tarot cards while her retired husband played chess with himself down the hall in the bedroom. One of her closest friends was a journalist. He knew she was the real thing.

There were people in that town and in surrounding communities who wouldn't make a move in their lives without first asking Liz if it would work out. She always told them things would work out, but she sometimes said they would have a lot of difficulty, and she frequently cited miraculously specific events that would occur.

I taught her Yoga, because I wanted to examine this species of astrologer -- someone so much beloved, having so much power, which I felt could be a dangerous thing. I believe she was well-meaning. Teaching people to meditate and telling them (she gave little sermons) they should seek God was probably her way of counter-acting the dependence (Neptune) people developed on her skills.

I have a little psychic ability -- not enough to set up shop! -- but she was like one of those psychics on the television detective shows!

Would you know it from her chart?

-- C Jayne

[Frisiangal]

Hi C. Jayne
Neptune in water signs and/or aspected to Moon seems to provide this ability. 12th house too, but I think 8th house would make it a bit scary. Your friend also had an exact 135 degree aspect between Neptune and Chiron in Pisces. She was probably seen as some sort of 'magic woman', although it might have been something she didn't particularly welcome with the grand cross between Chiron-Jupiter-Saturn-Mercury. Mercury in Virgo; she had it by the right end, but it must have put a lot of pressure on her from those dependent upon her knowledge.

If she enjoyed a drink she could probably hold her liquor with Neptune in Cancer. Drink like a fish? :) But the only harsh aspect is with Uranus and that isn't really associated with excesses in that respect, is it?

F

[Kite]

OK here's a theory for you - look at the midpoint between Mercur and Neptune and see if there is a major planet that comes up. In the chart above, the Sun is close to the midpoint but the cusp of the 2nd is pretty exact which would indicate talents in this area.

Another forum member who is psychic has Venus within a degree (Neptune is in Libra btw) and at the cusp of the 9th house.

I have the midpoint at my midheaven close to Saturn which rules my 12th house and Mercury. I have felt very intuitive and have had prophetic dreams but my ability to continously tap in is very limited but slowly growing.

Any other examples..I know this is a little off topic so I expect Aquarian Maverick to move this if needed.

Kite

[Arian Maverick]

Any other examples..I know this is a little off topic so I expect Aquarian Maverick to move this if needed.

Nah, I've given this up for now...sorry for being such a pain sometimes :oops:

Aquarian Maverick

[wilsontc]

C Jayne,

Thanks for posting this chart! I see Liz has a boomerang focused on Neptune (spirituality, also subconscious) conjunct (energy is combined with) Moon (home, also unconscious) conjunct Ascendant (self), indicating she has great ability to contact people's subconscious and unconscious. This possibility is increased since the boomerang involves Virgo (daily work) modifying Mercury (thinking/daily work) focused near the 3rd house (thinking), Uranus (friends, also intuition) conjunct Descendant (others), and Pluto (transformation, also occult, other people's values, power) focused in the 12th house (spirituality, also subconscious). Quite a powerhouse of mental and intuitive abilities!

Note: The quincunx between Mercury and Uranus is created by the quincunx between Venus and Uranus, with Venus conjunct Mercury. Astrodienst is particularly stingy with quincunxes, so the quincunx between Venus and Uranus does not show up on Astrodienst.

Charting,

Tim

[Frisiangal]

I see Liz has a boomerang focused on Neptune (spirituality, also subconscious) conjunct (energy is combined with) Moon (home, also unconscious) conjunct Ascendant (self), indicating she has great ability to contact people's subconscious and unconscious. This possibility is increased since the boomerang involves Virgo (daily work) modifying Mercury (thinking/daily work) focused near the 3rd house (thinking), Uranus (friends, also intuition) conjunct Descendant (others), and Pluto (transformation, also occult, other people's values, power) focused in the 12th house (spirituality, also subconscious). Quite a powerhouse of mental and intuitive abilities!

Note: The quincunx between Mercury and Uranus is created by the quincunx between Venus and Uranus, with Venus conjunct Mercury. Astrodienst is particularly stingy with quincunxes, so the quincunx between Venus and Uranus does not show up on Astrodienst.

Charting,

Tim


Hi,
What do you mean by the term 'boomerang'? Has it something to do with Neptune in the Moon's sign and their being conjunct? I read from the post that C. Jayne corrected the chart, which would make the birth time speculative? If Liz was born at a time in which Moon-Neptune were not aspected, would the term 'boomerang' still apply? Why is Mercury part of this 'boomerang'?

Mercury is retrograde in the 'out of sign' conjunction with Venus. Wouldn't they act as adversaries rather than combining their energy? Mercury would retrograde progressively to 'enter into' a quincunx with Uranus, but I don't know as if it would be inbred from birth because of its wide aspect to Venus. The yod with Venus-Pluto at its base and Uranus at its apex would be much stronger than the quincunx, don't you think?

Does our different perspectives have to do with new age astrology, I wonder :?: :)

I agree that astro. com misses out on a number of aspects. It's generous with its orbs too :wink:

F.

[Arian Maverick]

What do you mean by the term 'boomerang'? Has it something to do with Neptune in the Moon's sign and their being conjunct? I read from the post that C. Jayne corrected the chart, which would make the birth time speculative? If Liz was born at a time in which Moon-Neptune were not aspected, would the term 'boomerang' still apply? Why is Mercury part of this 'boomerang'?

A boomerang is a yod with an opposition point...it may not be visible on the Astrodienst chart; I know Tim has special softwear he uses to find extra aspects and configuration we may have missed :wink:

Aquarian Maverick

[sita]

This might make for another thread, but what defines "psychic?"

I think picking nits on a definition here is important.

In my experience/understanding, there are a few different kinds of "psychic" but some of them only involve use of the lower astral planes.

Is emotional sponging considered "psychic" ?

Is knowing what people are thinking or about to do "psychic," ?

Does being "psychic" refer to seeing auras and energy?

Does being empathic with no visuals mean one is "psychic"?

Does psychic refer to tapping into the higher mind/akashic records to gain knowledge or to predict future events?

Or is 'psychic"the experience of living consciously in a dreamworld with undeterminable causality?

Are we describing all of the above as "psychic?"

This is a subject I am very interested in.

Thanks,
Sita

[Lapis]

Very good question sita. The word "psychic" is used like a blanket term to cover so many different things by people. I myself am guilty of using the word psychic to cover a lot of territory too. I don't usually go into complex details about the huge variety of 'things' that this word (psychic) covers because its just too time consuming for starters!

I remember a while ago on a 'metaphysical' forum that even they were having a hard time defining what exactly "psychic" meant and what all that term covered etc. And that was on a metaphysical forum!

The thing about this thread that gets me personally is that the words -"Psychics, Liars, and Drunks" are all rolled together like that. Possibly indicating that the person who started this thread believes or feels they do go together. Boy can we tell that Mercury and Jupiter are Rx right now, and in water signs? :cry:

How about if I started a thread titled something like this....."Intellectuals, Mental Illness, and Perscription Drugs"? I hope this crude and rude post helps get some things back on track a bit. Wow, what's going on people?

[C Jayne]

... the words -"Psychics, Liars, and Drunks" are all rolled together like that....How about if I started a thread titled something like this....."Intellectuals, Mental Illness, and Perscription Drugs"?

Lapis--

Actually, I started the thread that way as a reference to the Neptune position, which, I believe, can influence a person to become a psychic, a liar, or a drunk. Liz Kelly did not drink, in my knowledge of her. She may not have been as compulsively forthcoming as I am, but perhaps that was a good thing.

Your remark is a good one, if my intentions had been unfriendly. My mother, who also is not a drinker, has a strong Neptune connection (on the Midheaven), so I have thought of posting her chart. She is somewhat psychic - a word which I believe Sita is correct in saying warrants discussion.

C Jayne

[C Jayne]

This might make for another thread, but what defines "psychic?"

I think picking nits on a definition here is important.

In my experience/understanding, there are a few different kinds of "psychic" but some of them only involve use of the lower astral planes.

Is emotional sponging considered "psychic" ?

Is knowing what people are thinking or about to do "psychic," ?

Does being "psychic" refer to seeing auras and energy?

Does being empathic with no visuals mean one is "psychic"?

Does psychic refer to tapping into the higher mind/akashic records to gain knowledge or to predict future events?

Or is 'psychic"the experience of living consciously in a dreamworld with undeterminable causality?

Are we describing all of the above as "psychic?"

This is a subject I am very interested in.

Thanks,
Sita

Sita --

Very interesting thoughts here. Like how they say, the Intuit have two dozen words for "snow" and English-speakers have only one word for "Love."

To clarify my own entries on this:

Liz Kelly's kind of psychic abilities included the following:

- she could tell you something that was going to happen to you. Spontaneously, in the middle of a yoga lesson, she one day told me, looking rather surprised about it herself, that I would probably marry sometime soon. I did, but the marriage was not a happy one. I even consulted her -- paid her money -- to ask her if I was making a good decision, and she told me everything would be fine. I think this means her own good intentions got in the way of her "psychic" abilities.

My own kind of psychic abilities:

-- I can be a psychic sponge, as you say, soaking up the emotion around me instead of maintaining a sensible distance from distress.

-- I have read my friends' or my mother's minds when they were telephoning me, or reading a book about which I had no knowledge (I awoke and recited a weird, elaborate dream which was the plot of a book being read in the next room).

-- Some people are senders, some are receivers. I once thought I was in love with a guy because I was so instantly able to "hear" his thoughts. Then it turned out he was a "sender" and he knew he was a "sender." He consciously "sent" thoughts often.

-- Only once or twice have I tapped into that higher knowledge thing you describe. It was during a period when I meditated a lot.

-- Isn't there a distinction to be made between "hearing" what people are thinking, and "knowing" what is about to happen?

I think it's just useless sensitivity when I can "hear" someone's thoughts. But I thought it was pretty useful when Liz Kelly could actually tell you,"The man you'll meet will be someone you'll have to take care of, often, and do things for --" or some other specific piece of information like that.

What are other people's thoughts on that? (No, I can't hear your thoughts from where I am. You'll have to think more loudly!)

--C Jayne

[Kite]

....."Intellectuals, Mental Illness, and Perscription Drugs

I don't know sounds like I could have a lot to say in a thread like this. :oops:

[sita]

Kite:
genius is madness,
and bliss is reserved for the ones willing to dance in the paradox.

my thought on the matter, atleast :wink:
Sita

[sita]

C-Jayne,
A very cool Freudian slip:
you wrote Intuit instead of INUIT !!!!
And I'm so into it!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

I'm intersted in this thread, but I'm tired and have to go to bed, so I'll catch up with you again tomorrow.

Thanks for sharing,
Sita

[Arian Maverick]

I'm intersted in this thread, but I'm tired and have to go to bed, so I'll catch up with you again tomorrow.

I agree...it's hard trying to keep up with friends halfway around the world, especially when it's past midnight in our time zone! :lol:

Aquarian Maverick

[wilsontc]

Frisian,

You said:
Mercury is retrograde in the 'out of sign' conjunction with Venus. Wouldn't they act as adversaries rather than combining their energy? Mercury would retrograde progressively to 'enter into' a quincunx with Uranus, but I don't know as if it would be inbred from birth because of its wide aspect to Venus. The yod with Venus-Pluto at its base and Uranus at its apex would be much stronger than the quincunx, don't you think?

I don't think about whether conjunctions are "in" or "out" of sign...I simply look at how close the planets are to another and if they are in my orbs or VERY close to being in my orbs, I call them a conjunction. Venus is definitely closer to the quincunx, but it wouldn't explain the psychic effect. In my opinion, the possibility of Mercury quincunx Uranus makes sense in this context so I used the conjunction to Venus to "pull" Mercury into the quincunx.

The time difference might matter slightly, but this is a boomerang mostly of planets, not of points (i.e., Ascendant, Nadir, Descendant, Midheaven) so it should not be overly significant, except to possibly eliminate the conjunction of Neptune and Moon. Maverick explained what a "boomerang" is.

Opinionating,

Tim

[Frisiangal]

This might make for another thread, but what defines "psychic?"
Sita


-- Some people are senders, some are receivers........

-- Isn't there a distinction to be made between "hearing" what people are thinking, and "knowing" what is about to happen?

--C Jayne


G'morning all from this part of the world :D

I tend to believe that a strong Neptune is descriptive of psychic ability and its sign and planet it aspects can show in which way. I also believe that everyone has psychic qualities but ,like so much energy, it was suppressed/ repressed in previous eras when people were 'scared' of what was so natural in many achieved. It went against God's supremacy, although we are now allowed to argue that if we're all made in His image, then we possess His qalities. As Neptune's transit through Scorpio gradually disintegrated its taboo spheres and we have become a more open and permissive society in the west, the closet can be opened and Neptune's 'antenna' pick up those extra-sensitive perceptions again. There's no longer the fear of the rack or the burning at the stake.

I agree with C.J. that there are senders and receivers in Neptune. It makes Liz's chart more interesting because, apart from the possible conjunction with Moon which enabled her 'to pick up' on other people's feelings, Neptune is otherwise unaspected. It's pure unadulterated psychic energy.

I believe there to be a distinction between 'all seeing', 'all hearing' and 'all knowing'. Sagittarius is the visionary quality, the seer or knowledge of things to come given a reality through Capricorn. It's Pisces, through Neptune, that possesses the 'all' quality, as fragile as it may be, that is timeless and can be expressed through the higher quality inherent in Aries. IMO.

Well; that's the effect of my first coffee of the morning :D

F.

[Frisiangal]

Thanks to Tim for the reply and to Aquarian Maverick for explaining what a boomerang is.
Also, thanks for including BML in the generated charts, Aquarian Maverick.
What a difference the point of something makes :wink: :D

F

[Elianah]

Okay, here is my take on the subject.

First off, I have seen psychics (i.e. mediums, channelers and clairvoyants) who were also chemically dependent because they could not (or possibly would not) consciously disconnect with the entities they were working with once they were out of session. They remained "clear channel" receptors for all the entities of all the clients they served at all times. The only way they had figured out to shut this stream off was through a chemical dependency.

I have also encountered psychics who I would consider liars because they were so intent in proving how psychic they were to the client that they refused to pay attention to the feedback that the client was providing them. They jumped to conclusions based on their own personal biases and stereotypes rather than allowing the client to work together with them to help interpret the energies they are picking up. Some of these psychics also appear to me as needing to be right because they are psychics and are so much more loftier than mere mortals.

Does this mean all psychics are drunks? NO

Does this mean all psychics are liars? NO

Does this mean all psychics have high hubris factors? NO

To me it means that psychics are as human as anyone else and some will suffer chemical dependencies, some will be liars and some will believe in the strength of their powers so much that they become blindsided by it and forget that it is the art of the relationship that matters when working with a client. Just like artists, journalists, politicians, craftsmen, medical practitioners, etc., there are good psychics, mediocre ones and bad ones.

There will also be psychics who are just not destined to read for particular clients because their world view cannot mesh with the clients' world view. That doesn't make those psychics "bad," it just means there are certain limitations on the interactions one human may have with another. I do think psychics who claim they can read for anyone at anytime is doing a disservice to themselves and their potential client base. Psychics can be generalists to a point, but there are particular skills that should be left to a specialist, say like a medical intuitive or a past life reader.

The other thing I believe is that humans tend to like to label people or ideas when those people or ideas are discordant with their own belief system so they can discount and ignore what is being said. The people who label then look for justifications to back up their claims. If they find out a psychic is also chemically dependent, then all psychics become chemically dependent for them and all psychic information can be discounted as coming from drunks and unreliable.

By doing that, humans are able to stay within their safety net of safe beliefs rather than really embracing the other position, studying it, debating it, and really seeing if it has any validity for them. Labels allow one to blindly, unthinkingly and emotionally reject out of hand than taking the challenge to understand and respect. The challenge to understand and respect does not mean that one will change one's mind on the position. What it means is that the person explored the idea with an open heart, mind and soul and determined that the position is not appropriate at this time in the growth cycle of the person. The idea is not wrong, only wrong for that person at this moment.

And, although it is very hard to do, all points of view can be respected without having to agree with all of them.

Elianah

[Elianah]

This was an accidental double post and I have cleared out the second copy.

Elianah

[Frisiangal]

First off, I have seen psychics (i.e. mediums, channelers and clairvoyants) who were also chemically dependent because they could not (or possibly would not) consciously disconnect with the entities they were working with once they were out of session. Elianah

On a slightly different note, I remember my first medical astrology conference. There was I full of Utopian ideals listening to these masters of the universe with their celestial linked insights. When it was finished, everyone made for the lounges. I have NEVER seen as many people light up a cigarette whilst queing for a drink at the same time. Needless to say, full of disillusionment my heavy Earth side pulled my feet back to solid ground in double quick time. :? :)

F.

[m_Adison]

Well, I'm a liar and a drunk.

I'm sure it's in my chart. -- haha. but, I don't wanna post it and have you all laughing at me...

:lol:

Oh, that's right. I already did.

DAMNIT.

:evil:

I'M A JOKE.

:oops:

Sorry, I'm a little hungover - - tends to make me delusional. :?

:)

[m_Adison]

I was born under pluto retrograde...

Maybe that's why I am a lying, destructive... But - - - enjoyable - - person. I was just reading about Pluto Retrograde... and it doesn't sound like a good omen...It does make sense after reading it, though... I destroy and rebuild... that is my practically my entire life. :|

[C1]

:) .....yes,
but are you M_Ad? :P

Here's the fable of Psyche, (our soul)...so what's
this to do with drunks, psychics, liars?

http://www.bulfinch.org/fables/bull11.html

Well, I may be leaping wildly from the "Mythology" thread
to here...(so, sorry...:roll: )

I've just been reading Daniel Deardorff's
book called "The
Other Within" (White Cloud Press, Ashland, Oregon).

...The Other Within...what's that?!

Deardorff says: "The problem...is the one-sided
obsession with immortality, light, and ascent....but all this
is halfhearted elevationism; for, as we know, in authentic verticality,
'the higher the spirit goes the more deeply the soul sinks down.'"
[quoting Robert Bly]...

Well, if I'm the fool on the hill--that's cool.

Though the masses will reject us....
Tricksters go beyond
humanic sending and receiving....

"'When the horse addresses the rider we have
something quite different...In this exchange,
there is interaction and interplay, the reverse
of the tight-fisted, control-narrowed spirit.
In this way...allowing ourselves to be carried away
transforms the situation, forces an alteration on the
creative spirit, and throws it into a play that carries it
beyond itself, carries it, that is to say, really and
properly into play that entrains the entirety of creation.'"

We are opening the heart....

"...play is a liminal mode..betwixt-and-between all
standard nodes, essentially 'elusive' -- a term
derived from the Latin verb eludere...
'to take away from someone at play,'
thus 'to cheat' or 'to deceive.' ...Like many Trickster
figures in myths (or should these be 'antimyths'...)
play can deceive, betray, beguile, delude (another
derivation of ludere 'to play'), dupe, hoodwink,
bamboozle, and gull.'" (Victor Turner, "Body, Brain and
Culture, The Anthropology of Performance ed. Richard Schechner)

"'The creation is not an accomplished work....Like the human
body, the cosmos is in part built up anew,
every night, every day; by a process of
unending regeneration it remains alive.
But the manner of its growth is by abrupt
occurrences, crises, surprising events and
mortifying accidents. Everything is forever
going wrong; and yet, that is precisely the circumstance by which
the miraculous development comes to pass. The great entirety jolts from
crisis to crisis; that is the precarious, hair-raising
manner of self-transport by which it moves.'"
(Heinrich Zimmer, The King and the Corpse: Tales
of the Soul's Conquest of Evil)

...it's more than Mercury Rx or Pluto cj GC...
whether we're open to it or not.... :wink:

Hooray for the wyrd-o's on the forum and
in the "chaos-mos"

:lol: C1

[m_Adison]

MAD would be an understatement.

I like to use the term... psychotically expanded.

:mrgreen:

.:.:.:m_Adison:.:.:.

[Light]

Madison

I like to use the term... psychotically expanded

I love it. :D :D


I'm just barking!

:D

hel

[m_Adison]

My friend don't believe it..

But, I can actually be quite funny when I'm sober.


HA.

-what's going on my friend... ? How is life? I'm drunk.. as usual.. so, why not reach out to my PEOPLE.


haha. Just kidding.

yes, I know I'm mad.. But, my ... it has been said... my mother is the devil. *I am the spawn of satan* Swear to God... I was produced straight out of a nut.

ugh.

Some poeples kids.

:twisted:

if you get bored.. and want to swap words.. just give me a type.

haha.

(let's beat each others heads with out keyboards)

ok.. really, I have to go... the "High Life" has taken me.

hehe-

until then...

I will remain intellectually enigmatic,

........the m.

[m_Adison]

Actually, I decided that I have something to say.

Since I'm boozed up.. this might be the perfect place to reflect on myself... grr.. I'm such an paradoxical bi-polar socially accepted *****.

Please give me a labotomy.

Today.. something revolutionary hit me... I know now.. that my procrastination must come to an end... .and that I have to do something. It all makes sense now.. why I haven't died yet. I'm telling you, I'm the luckiest person you will ever meet... I've been so close to death so many times.. but, God keeps me around. . . I don't know why... but, I'm still breathing... I realized today that I am an indigo. It really stressed me out.. so, like a cowardly person would do (ahh.. I so good at this).. I decided to get ******. So, I'm trying to not deal with my issues right now.. because, I just don't know what is going on right now... I'm on the verge of leaving my man.. that I love.. but, the thing is... He is too straight for me.. too practical.. I need a Sag... or maybe a Leo... I'm sick of Scorpios and Aquarius blood.. . (haha, I hate myself)... It's just bringing me heartbreak.

I run with the wind.. and if you don't want to ripple along with em.. my interest.. -well, curiosity level.. goes from 10 to 0. - = - - I like change. I am the queen of impusive moves.

ahhh.. seriously, though. I'm really messed up after reading about the indigo kids. I feel like I've found my family.. someone that finally understands what i'm talking about.. someone that doesn't think I'm out of my ******* mind.

But, right now.. I'm a train wreck.

ugh.

-I should shut up before I get mentally slammed...

Peace from the inner beast- - -

........ m.

[Arian Maverick]

-what's going on my friend... ? How is life? I'm drunk.. as usual.. so, why not reach out to my PEOPLE.

Ha ha, we have a board for this very purpose-- Shout Out to Your People (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=917) :D

Aquarian Maverick

[m_Adison]

You're a riot, miss aquarian maverick.

Your intellect... floors me!

Such a mature girl for your age... very impressive.

I appreciate your opinion. Your insight on astrology is always appreciated. I didn't realize how young you were until I looked at your birthchart.

Dang chika.

And you have the music?

ahhh... I love it.

Just love it.

Rock on. -(goo punk rock.. haha... 'school *****'.. lmao.. nvm)

(I'm not much for an intellectul conversation right now... long night... no sleep... the demons are making camp.. so maybe I should sleep? hahaha)

not only mature... but, well educated.. I see.

it's so nice to see brilliance in young age... not that I'm old.. I'm only 20... but, I thought you were way older.. just by your great 'aquarian' conversational skills. :)

Thanks for the laugh. Believe me.. I need it.

Men are dicks.

-ha

REPRESENT

:lol:

--until then-

[Arian Maverick]

Rock on. -(goo punk rock.. haha... 'school *****'.. lmao.. nvm)

Cheers! And I agree with that part about men...can't live with them, can't live without them as my mother says :lol:

I was born under pluto retrograde...

Maybe that's why I am a lying, destructive... But - - - enjoyable - - person. I was just reading about Pluto Retrograde... and it doesn't sound like a good omen...It does make sense after reading it, though... I destroy and rebuild... that is my practically my entire life.

By the way, I was rereading through the posts on this thread and just wanted to mention that I too have Pluto retrograde in my natal chart...and it is the apex of one of my yods, receiving the combined energies of my tight Aries stellium and Mars! That includes ALL of my personal planets, directing their energies towards transformation! :twisted:

Aquarian Maverick

[Elianah]

C1,

Loved your post!

When I still was working on a thesis, I had came to the conclusion that chaos was not the evil that it had been made out to be over the eons. Rather, it was the unbridled, undifferentiated divine creative energy that we all are able to dive into and take from it what we need to continue our soul's growth.

That floated like a lead balloon in a seminary setting...

Oh well....

Elianah

[sita]

I had come to the conclusion that chaos was not the evil that it had been made out to be over the eons. Rather, it was the unbridled, undifferentiated divine creative energy that we all are able to dive into and take from it what we need to continue our soul's growth.


Well said Eliainah and C1.

I think Pluto Retrograde popped its head into this thread for a reason.

I have this placement, too, and I have known such beauty in chaos. I find it empowering beyond anything, the paradox of surrender. Only in the chaos and destruction are we able to "break through" and begin anew, and to admit that we had no F-ing idea what we were trying to do in the first place. It forces the unknown INTO, and it's where we dance and spin with what we cannot see or control. To surrended frees up all sorts of other energies.

Pluto transitting Galactic Center. has been doing the deep dark digging in us, so that a new flower can be planeted just below where the old one was. A time of dead ends and fresh starts where life throws us a new line. In these times of increasing m_adness :wink: , it's so imprtant to remember Pluto not only as the trench digger, but also the power that will burst that flower from the seed. This is the cosmic rescue unit speaking here: this chaos is the force that is unwieldable. It is our salvation. It is the one thing we can not **** up because it does TO us. We don't have a choice. It frees us from the futile compulsions of trying to control it all. We don't have to and we are not fully omniscient beings. We can relax and breathe and know our place will always be kept. This chaos is what holds the order of thiese worlds. Humans can not taint it, and that's the point. And it ever will be.

Pluto turns retrograde in Sagittarius on March 29. It is now at 27 degrees, the degree of the Galactic Center. This intense energy that we have been working with I believe will turn to heal us once we have been stripped of seeds that we should not sow, but did not know before these transits.

The Universe knows what its doing.

Primordially yours,
Sita

PS: Just to tie this all together, I'd be willing to bet that Pluto retrograde indicates having unusual psi-abilities....
:wink:

[C1]

:x (*)


Hell-o
:P

elianah, I know....it's called "acad e m e n t i a"

for a reason, and the ability to not listen to original feminist thought is
its main characteristic: ( talk about "lead ballon brains"). :cry:

( I'll stop crying....:wink:)
BTW I totally agree with your conclusive post on the MYTH board here on the Forum.

Strong Sita,

well said!....Pluto is plunging our psyches into the depths of
life on Earth in all her mysterious cosmic plasmic divinity...
indigenous wisdom and power...

on the other hand, I'm reading about the '60s in Romania...and about Judi Bari.....and continuing Earth destruction and torture and I'm listening
to Democracy NOW and it's all such human under-
statement...we are going deep...

and with a simple, old-fashioned, crystal tube radio my mother
gave me years ago, I hear chapters of 1984 read aloud on the radio....

thanks for your posts...let's stay in touch with 27 Sag...IMVHO,
we're fortunate to have the Forum.

C1

[C1]

:x (*)


Hell-o
:P

elianah, I know....it's called "acad e m e n t i a"

for a reason, and the ability to not listen to original feminist thought is
its main characteristic: ( talk about "lead ballon brains"). :cry:

( I'll stop crying....:wink:)
BTW I totally agree with your conclusive post on the MYTH board here on the Forum.

Strong Sita,

well said!....Pluto is plunging our psyches into the depths of
life on Earth in all her mysterious cosmic plasmic divinity...
indigenous wisdom and power...

on the other hand, I'm reading about the '60s in Romania...and about Judi Bari.....and continuing Earth destruction and torture and I'm listening
to Democracy NOW and it's all such human under-
statement...we are going deep...

and with a simple, old-fashioned, crystal tube radio my mother
gave me years ago, I hear chapters of 1984 read aloud on the radio....

thanks for your posts...let's stay in touch with 27 Sag...IMVHO,
we're fortunate to have the Forum.

C1

[C1]

:x (*)


Hell-o
:P

elianah, I know....it's called "acad e m e n t i a"

for a reason, and the ability to not listen to original feminist thought is
its main characteristic: ( talk about "lead ballon brains"). :cry:

( I'll stop crying....:wink:)
BTW I totally agree with your conclusive post on the MYTH board here on the Forum.

Strong Sita,

well said!....Pluto is plunging our psyches into the depths of
life on Earth in all her mysterious cosmic plasmic divinity...
indigenous wisdom and power...

on the other hand, I'm reading about the '60s in Romania...and about Judi Bari.....and continuing Earth destruction and torture and I'm listening
to Democracy NOW and it's all such human under-
statement...we are going deep...

and with a simple, old-fashioned, crystal tube radio my mother
gave me years ago, I hear chapters of 1984 read aloud on the radio....

thanks for your posts...let's stay in touch with 27 Sag...IMVHO,
we're fortunate to have the Forum.

C1

[C1]

:x (*)


Hell-o
:P

elianah, I know....it's called "acad e m e n t i a"

for a reason, and the ability to not listen to original feminist thought is
its main characteristic: ( talk about "lead ballon brains"). :cry:

( I'll stop crying....:wink:)
BTW I totally agree with your conclusive post on the MYTH board here on the Forum.

Strong Sita,

well said!....Pluto is plunging our psyches into the depths of
life on Earth in all her mysterious cosmic plasmic divinity...
indigenous wisdom and power...

on the other hand, I'm reading about the '60s in Romania...and about Judi Bari.....and continuing Earth destruction and torture and I'm listening
to Democracy NOW and it's all such human under-
statement...we are going deep...

and with a simple, old-fashioned, crystal tube radio my mother
gave me years ago, I hear chapters of 1984 read aloud on the radio....

thanks for your posts...let's stay in touch with 27 Sag...IMVHO,
we're fortunate to have the Forum.

C1

[Elianah]

C1,

It looks like Merc Rx struck your post! BTW, I didn't mean my last Myth post as either a conclusive or concluding list. I think that the more humanitarian seed myths we consciously put into the beginning of this age, the more chance we have in raising the vibration of humanity during the Age of Aquarius. But this discussion should return to that thread.

I think that transiting Pluto is also working towards transforming and transmuting the Earth plane into a higher multi-dimensional level and connecting that with the Galactic Center allows the galaxy to move to a higher multi-dimensional level. The fact that we observe this relationship taking place in the sign of Sagittarius hopefully will wipe away the need for dogma and replace it with the wisdom of a balanced approach and appreciation of what truth is and there is no one TRUTH. Multi-dimensionality needs multi-truths without labels.

Elianah

[sita]

Rock on Elainah!!!!!!!!

You go, girl!!!!

:D :D :D :D

Sita

[C1]

Merc Rx
....hmmmm...like a warped
cd, repeating and repeating...
(I hope that stops) :!:....

I do appreciate the multi-faceted
mirrors we are for one another,
helping shine light on a blind spot
of our own (there's always a blind spot)...
that needs transforming....and being a woman,
and having such interesting women on this forum
(men, too...but just for now what I'm saying is..)
that for me our communication offers a light feeling
llike I get by looking at the book WOMEN
--Annie Liebovitz and Susan Sontag's collaboration
Liebovitz' photographs of women and Sontag's essay...
what a book! (Elianah....the photo of
Dorothy L Richman, a rabbinical student
at the New York Theological Seminary)....

after listening to you here on the Forum, I took
a deeper look at that photo...

....now, back to reading posts....

:wink:
C1

[Elianah]

....for me our communication offers a light feeling
like I get by looking at the book WOMEN
--Annie Liebovitz and Susan Sontag's collaboration
Liebovitz' photographs of women and Sontag's essay...
what a book! (Elianah....the photo of
Dorothy L Richman, a rabbinical student
at the New York Theological Seminary)....

Yep, I knew Dorothy while I was at the Jewish Theological Seminary of America. She should be a rabbi by now...she was either a third or fourth year student when I knew her. She may have gone on for a PhD, however...

New York Theological Seminary is a Presbyterian seminary, if I remember correctly. :wink:

HMMM....This is what happens when Mercury in Virgo gets out-of-control: nit-picking accuracy. Sorry about that. :blush:

after listening to you here on the Forum, I took
a deeper look at that photo...

....now, back to reading posts....

:wink:
C1

Don't look too deeply...I'm not visible in her.

Elianah

[C1]

Elianah,
Of course, I figured that you knew Richman at the
*Jewish* Theological Seminary!
(I'm sorry for that faux pas,
:oops:
Elianah, and please don't worry, I'm totally glad you
care enough to bring clarity and accuracy to my latest
Merc Rx post
on this "Psychics, liars..." thread of all places! 8))

So, anyway..that IS what I meant...

Today my relationships are fraught with clutzyness, like
I'm stuck in molasses emotionally...do you ever feel that way?

I'm reading on, now...BTW, Elianah, you said:

I think that transiting Pluto is also working towards transforming and transmuting the Earth plane into a higher multi-dimensional level and connecting that with the Galactic Center allows the galaxy to move to a higher multi-dimensional level. The fact that we observe this relationship taking place in the sign of Sagittarius hopefully will wipe away the need for dogma and replace it with the wisdom of a balanced approach and appreciation of what truth is and there is no one TRUTH.

A friend said to me that seeing Ms. Bachelet (a tortured, former prisoner
of the Pinochet regime) elected President of Chile is simply amazing!

I said, "It makes me happy!"

In the meantime, back here at the rancho-pseudo-democro,
the erstwhile "cradle of democracy"--we know
the cradle's been robbed...

I trust your intuition about Pluto/GC....time is of the essence imho,
because our little Earth home is, like Sita said, absolutely wonderful
and beautiful and gaia-wise and
we don't want to lose her.

:|

C1

[Elianah]

It will be interesting to see how Ms. Bachelet does:

Will she rule Chile or will Chile's history rule her?

She may try to perform her campaign promises and not succeed, allowing Chilean men to say that is proof a woman cannot lead a government. A macho lie if there ever was one.

Or she may not be able to fulfill any of her campaign promises, and all Chileans will be calling her a liar.

We cannot afford to allow ourselves to get too "drunk" from this election. The proof of the pudding will come in how she performs her duties and how long she is allowed to do so by the military.

And don't forget, the Phillippines currently has a woman for president and they are wishing that Marcos was back at the helm...now there's a Neptunian fantasy for you. They remember the stable economy he gave them and ignore everything else. Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, the president of the Phillippines, is trying to control that country's free press because of an attempted coup of her government.

I am not trying to be negative here, only a realist. Remember that Mercury Rx in Pisces might have a tendency to put on "Rose-Colored Glasses" on the situation. Let's wait to evaluate until after Mercury Rx has moved past 26° Pisces (the point where it turned retro), when we are not slightly punch drunk over the victory.

Elianah

[C1]

:lol: I know, Elianah, I know...

one step forward, three steps backward,
but this is the tattered end of the patriarchy
perhaps....:x
Nothing's off-topic on this thread....
perhaps....:wink: So here goes with Merc Rx:
Arroyo? Her hands were tied by repercussions of
colonialism (US-backed Marcos) and the
maelstrom of military/industrial/global forces controlling
the historical - political Filipino power struggles.
The Phillipines has an unwieldy geography and an economy
that relies on the income sent home by women (nurses and
maids, etc.) working in other countries...
(So, who's taking care of their children at home
while mom spends years in some other country....
what effect does this have on the
next generation?)...

So, Hillary Clinton is another woman rising
to political heights, controversially,
and there is Angela Merkel in Germany
(not to mention Ms. Condee Rice :evil: )

But, in general I'm just feeling that
I don't have the Truth.
I like the thoughtful posts and discussions
on the Forum's boards...yes, during this Merc Rx....

the big picture is in our hearts, our blood....

in our thoughts, hopes, dreams during more-or-less

ego-less moments of sleeping and

w a k i n g

...I wonder
which decisions in my life do I make from a place of
fear and which from a place of power?
I forfeited some life chances, perhaps, by my failure
to show up and be present and do *something*
because I feared not being perfect, or politically correct.
During this
imperfect human tragedy
(or comedy) --
this momentous moment of life
on Earth --
can we really collaborate effectively?
That's my thought.
Happy Full Moon :? 8)

C1