PDA

View Full Version : aspect degrees - the degree where the aspect perfects

barbh
07-23-2008, 04:40 PM
Hi there

Ok, so if Venus is at 6.5 Aries, and Mars is at 15.5 Cancer.....they are applying to a square in 9 degrees. However, Venus won't actually square Mars until Venus reaches 21.5 Aries and Mars reaches 21.5 Cancer.

Do we use the symbolic degree orb...from 6.5 to 15.5 and say they will connect in 9 degrees?

OR, do we use the degree where the aspect perfects, which is 21.5 Aries and Cancer? In this case it would be 15 degrees for the aspect to perfect.

Frawley seems to make much of this in his book: p. 128-129

The Sun at 10 Taurus applying to Mars at 14 Leo would typically perfect when the Sun is at about 17 Taurus. The Sun has to travel 7 degrees to perfect the aspect, not 4. It is where the aspect perfects that matters.

So, how come no one on this forum seems to use this technique? We all seem to use the first one, the plain old symbolic one, and pay no attention to when the aspect perfects...(not in real time, but at what real degree).

Could this be why some of our predictions are wrong? Has anyone gone back to check charts where their predictions were wrong, and then looked to see if it could've been due to this degree difference in aspect perfection? Just curious, since Frawley has it emblazened in his book as being of utmost importance.

cheers
barbh :)

lillyjgc
07-24-2008, 02:03 PM
Hi Barb,
Good question.
I usually use the *symbolic* time in horary. If you are looking for *the date* in real time when an aspect perfects, its not hard to calculate it using an ephemeris, and in chart delineation I do sometimes *mention* the real time frame.
But in my experience it has more often been the symbolic time that has *worked*.
I guess a lot depends on the question. For example: *will he call me this week* and there is an applying aspect between the sigs, due to perfect in say *9 somethings*-its a yes, but it suggests a time frame outside that of the question.So much depends on the sign the sigs are in, especially when determining time frames.(whether fixed signs, cadent houses etc)
Another example:
Will we reconcile? (This ones from my files)..The aspect was an applying trine in 4 *somethings*. It turned out to be *years* not months/weeks, well outside the timeframe that the aspect perfected in *real* time.

I dont know though how we are supposed to know *for sure* whether to predict in real time or symbolic time. In my experience both do work, but it seems to relate very much to the specific question being asked.
In lost object horaries I have observed that real time and symbolic time also apply, but when to use which? I'm not sure and for me it's more of an intuitive choice, but I do actually believe astrology can be carried out empirically, without intuition coming into it.
I look forward to other insights on this perplexing question.
Cheers, Lillyjgc

barbh
07-24-2008, 03:45 PM
Hi lillygc

Thanks for that, but I'm asking about 'real degrees' as opposed to 'real time.'

For example, you said you had a file where the sigs were applying in '4 somethings.' Say they were Venus and Mars at 1 Aries and 5 Leo. In real time, Venus and Mars would probably perfect that trine in 6 days or so. In real degrees, that trine would perfect at 8 Leo, therefore making it 7 degrees that Venus would have to travel to perfect that trine, making it '7 somethings' to look for. 7 days, 7 weeks or 7 years.

You see what I'm getting at? It's still symbolic time...just symbolic of the perfection degree, not symbolic of the sitting degree. The actual aspect itself would perfect in days, so we're not talking real time here.

As I go back and look in my files for charts that 'worked', i did use symbolic degrees, but they were charts where

1) the moon was applying to aspect a planet, and that planet hadn't moved much when the moon caught up to it, so the degree difference was the same.

2) a planet was applying to a slower planet, like jupiter or saturn, and again, jup and saturn hadn't changed degrees in order for the aspect to perfect.

I can see this only being relevant when there are two faster moving planets involved, like mercury to venus, or venus to mars...something like that.

Just curious, cause I use the first method myself, of using whatever the degree difference is in the chart and not the perfection degree difference. Frawley makes so much of it, so how come few people use it? Or, maybe they do. Dunno. Would love to get more input.

thanks again
barbh :)

barbh
07-28-2008, 03:51 PM
Brought this back up again.
would like to know if others use this, or not, and why.
thanks
barbh :)